@adventuresofamtrakcascades301 I agree. Putting out third rails on mainline railroads isn't recommended. Overhead wires are the best option. Yes, it is possible to put the wires high enough to allow
Except it’s NOT zero emissions, capturing hydrogen can cause lots of emissions, we literally invented zero emission trains more than a century ago, it’s called overhead wires
Would love to see at least the SB Line go electric, being Metrolink’s busiest route and it being owned entirely by the transit agencies in LA and SB Counties, with minimal freight traffic. Plus with the coming of Brightline West, having those tracks electrified allows BLW trains to potentially reach LA Union Station directly.
Electric is the way to go. H2 had a ton of promise 20 years ago, but the engineering realities of H2 have made it clear that H2 is too difficult to create, store, and transport. This train should have been full electric, but it is constrained by sharing the rail with freight trains.
@@StefanWithTrains3222not worth it in small branch lines with only 3-4 round trips per day. For those hydrogen- or battery-electric trains are better.
When Arnold Schwarzenegger was governor he made a speech about the BNSF Railroad's New Hydrogen Switch Engine. I used it myself and was amused that the only thing coming out of the exhaust was water vapor. Eventually it left the BNSF Railroad and went to the Los Angeles Junction railroad and eventually went who knows where it is today. Maybe in a scrap metal yard.
0:52 “Stadler was in this space in Europe, so we asked if we could do it here” Stadler is hopeful the US, especially counties like San Bernardino, will pour money into research of Hydrogen Electric trains, because the technology hasn’t been proven yet and failed tests on similar lines in Europe. The German government just decided to buy Stadler Battery Electrica, for better integration (they can charge on the existing overhead electrification network), max efficiency, and reliability. San Bernardino is receiving funding for a zero emissions train to Montclair, the technology that train uses is the most cost effective and efficient, and if you can’t install wires like that train, get battery electrics like Germany and Japan, it just makes sense to go to battery electric instead. California High Speed Rail is already planning on electrification of segments of the Orange County/Ventura Lines which are expected to become the Metrolink mainline once the link union station project is complete. All this electric infrastructure for high speed rail means Union Station is going to have a lot of charging infrastructure for Battery Electric trains that is already budgeted into the cost of California High Speed Rail. (High speed rail is not paying for hydrogen)
Commuter rail in this part of California share their ROW with freight traffic, and the freight companies don't want overhead electrical infrastructure. It's a rather unequal relationship I think; what the freight says is the final word. Don't quote me though.
@@potblack6043 You got a good point. I mean if SoCal already had overhead wires, you would never see any double stacked freight trains in that region because they would be taller than the wires themselves.
@@T128Productions Precisely. The technology for overhead wires on double stack lines does exist, and I know of a few current uses of the method in India and China, but the downside of that is that overhead clearance would have to accommodate both double stack freight and the electrical infrastructure.
@@potblack6043 They use doublestacks under wire in New Jersey, Pennsylvania, New York, Delaware, Maryland, Massachusetts, and Colorado. California's public sector is just incompetent at project management so the commuter agencies don't want to have to wait 2 decades for electrification to meet zero emission requirements.
@@T128Productions India has fully electrified freight-exclusive railways that run double stacks on flat cars, not even on well cars. Your argument doesn’t exist.
Battery electric trains can also do the same thing for trips that are hundreds of miles away too.. Regenerative braking has huge advantages there! As long as trains are zero emission I am all for it!
They can't be serious about a barely used passenger train making any difference with air quality when this is the warehouse and truck distribution capital of the world.
I'm a skeptic...20 million cost vs. how much for an old style train? I live in Redlands & the new line seems empty everytime I see it crossing. Meanwhile there are 10000 cars driving all around it so how is this saving the air quality?
@@marzzgli1278 Now that you mentioned the “green new deal,” same thing applies to EVs which is extremely foolish. Why not let the people choose which cars they want instead of having the government to decide for us? Am I right?
I'm glad the technology is being adopted. It is, of course, not the best solution for all places and situations, but it gives you options. If you can't electrify for whatever reason, you only have two options - stay with diesel, go H2 or use battery. Battery powered trains still need parts of the tracks with overhead wires for charging. Charging times and battery range is simply still an issue. Also with the adoption of the H2 tech, it's development will keep being funded so generation/storage/transit will improve over time.
Overhead power lines take a lot of time to engineer, verify clearances, install and maintain. Fuel cell is a lot simpler installation plus no moving parts. PS- Assume they will take excess solar power during the day and use it to electrolyze water to capture hydrogen.
Costs to operate? I didn't hear if it is more or less than Diesel and by how much. Still, very excited as Hydrogen makes inroads into short haul trucking and now trains. As long as the torque is not diminished thus reducing passenger count.
sigh... Hydrogen is very stupid as an energy carrier. I'm tired of explaining why. Go look at the Toyota Miria's stunning failure as an example. Converting your diesels to green dimethyl ether and/or compressed natural gas is a much, much, much better option.
Do you want to know what really grinds my gears? Scams like this. Toyota has been selling hydrogen cars in California for years, and guess who's buying them now. Almost no one, that's who. Here's the deal. Hydrogen is not zero emissions. Hydrogen is generated by steam reforming natural gas. This is an extremely expensive process that has huge c02 emissions. The resulting hydrogen fuel is incredibly expensive and difficult to work with. This is a complete joke. Overhead wires have been used to power trains between DC and New York for over a hundred years now. It's a must better option. India has already converted nearly all of its trains to zero emissions with overhead wires. In India over 95% of the rail network of 68,000 kilometers is under electric power. In the us only 1% of the rail network uses electric power. It's an absolute joke. The cost of buying this one hydrogen train probably would have paid for the electrification of a significant part of the nine miles of track this train will run on. Existing diesel electric locomotives can be converted to run on overhead electric power quite easily. Indian railways has already converted hundreds of engines to run on overhead power. They even have dedicated freight corridors with extra high wires where double stack container trains run on electric power. The US Department of Transportation recommended that 1/3 of the US railroad network be placed under electrification after the 1973 oil crisis. Of course, the railroads threw the report in the trash. The next oil crisis will be even worse than 1973. Unfortunately, the greedy railroad CEOs in the US and Canada have spent so much time bending over backward for big oil that they don't even know how to stand up straight.
Hydrogen gas is extremely expensive. Next, where does hydrogen gas come from. The most economical method so far is a thermo-catalytic method that converts methane and water to hydrogen and CARBON DIOXIDE. A problem with rail transport is that the train always leaves somewhere where you're not at and takes you to not exactly where you dont want to go. Another problem is safety, being assaulted. And finally, metro rail is a multi-million dollar place for homeless to sleep. I'll take my car, thanks. .
If Indian Railways can electrify 20% of their entire subcontinent's rail network in one year, us Californians have no excuse! Buy out (or seize via eminent domain) the privately-owned freight railways' infrastructure, electrify all of it, and expand CalTrain to European levels of service throughout our entire state!
I actually really prefer the og metrolink idk I just don’t like how it looks it’s just looks like the metro gold line and metrolink had a kid a this is what we got a Tran louder than the metro gold line and the og metrolink I mean I really grew up with the og trains and to see this is just straight up weird.
You don't think it's important to test new trans before bringing them to the public? I hope you're not in charge of something important for your day job.
It’s probably going to fail testing like it did in Europe. This train is terrible if you want to run trains fast and frequently, which is Metrolink’s entire long term goal.
What you’re saying is instead of buying new trains that are “safe for the environment,” we should convert all of our locomotives from diesel to hydrogen? Sounds like a cheaper solution than to waste money on trains built from other different countries. I mean whatever happened to Made In The USA? Come on!
@@T128Productionsthese are manufactured in the us by a European company and being multiple units can accelerate faster thus providing a better service.
@@DemPilafian But what would happen if there was a blackout? Shouldn’t they have backup generators at the ready or solar panels as well to provide extra backup power or something?
@@Starflare5 Guess what. I heard them from total strangers. I went to San Bernardino because it's a railroad hot spot. I just save my gas and don't show up in a town of haters and criminals.
If Trump is elected, state govt might want to stop all of the wasted money on this empty project and the whole fast rail nonsense. Oil gasoline autos FTW
Not sure what kept them from using overhead power lines instead of hydrogen fuel cells. Hydrogen fuel is expensive to capture.
Private freight railroad companies not wanting to electrify shared ROWs.
If they did, they would’ve put a third rail to provide power to the train from the tracks, sort of like how Metro North has a third rail system.
@@T128Productions ha fat chance there simply cuz third rail is really really dangerous for many reasons including yard switching kind of environment
@adventuresofamtrakcascades301 I agree. Putting out third rails on mainline railroads isn't recommended. Overhead wires are the best option. Yes, it is possible to put the wires high enough to allow
@@Mars-ev7qg metro north and lirr have had 3rd rail for a long time and havent really has many issues
Except it’s NOT zero emissions, capturing hydrogen can cause lots of emissions, we literally invented zero emission trains more than a century ago, it’s called overhead wires
Would love to see at least the SB Line go electric, being Metrolink’s busiest route and it being owned entirely by the transit agencies in LA and SB Counties, with minimal freight traffic. Plus with the coming of Brightline West, having those tracks electrified allows BLW trains to potentially reach LA Union Station directly.
It’s not zero emissions either if overhead lines are powered by coal, oil or gas
@@thomasgrabkowski8283 they can also be powered by wind and solar, or even nuclear, or hydroelectric, or any other non-fossil fuel source.
@@ChrisJones-gx7fcand they can make hydrogen from off-peak excess solar energy.
Electric is the way to go. H2 had a ton of promise 20 years ago, but the engineering realities of H2 have made it clear that H2 is too difficult to create, store, and transport. This train should have been full electric, but it is constrained by sharing the rail with freight trains.
@@DemPilafian no it’s not
@@ca8944Classic railway electrification is superior.
@@StefanWithTrains3222not worth it in small branch lines with only 3-4 round trips per day. For those hydrogen- or battery-electric trains are better.
@@robbanto98 Batteries would be great in those cases, but main line RR's shouldn't use H2 or Battery-electric trains as the trains used.
Already love Metrolink, gonna love it a whole lot more with these
When Arnold Schwarzenegger was governor he made a speech about the BNSF Railroad's New Hydrogen Switch Engine.
I used it myself and was amused that the only thing coming out of the exhaust was water vapor.
Eventually it left the BNSF Railroad and went to the Los Angeles Junction railroad and eventually went who knows where it is today.
Maybe in a scrap metal yard.
0:52 “Stadler was in this space in Europe, so we asked if we could do it here”
Stadler is hopeful the US, especially counties like San Bernardino, will pour money into research of Hydrogen Electric trains, because the technology hasn’t been proven yet and failed tests on similar lines in Europe. The German government just decided to buy Stadler Battery Electrica, for better integration (they can charge on the existing overhead electrification network), max efficiency, and reliability.
San Bernardino is receiving funding for a zero emissions train to Montclair, the technology that train uses is the most cost effective and efficient, and if you can’t install wires like that train, get battery electrics like Germany and Japan, it just makes sense to go to battery electric instead. California High Speed Rail is already planning on electrification of segments of the Orange County/Ventura Lines which are expected to become the Metrolink mainline once the link union station project is complete.
All this electric infrastructure for high speed rail means Union Station is going to have a lot of charging infrastructure for Battery Electric trains that is already budgeted into the cost of California High Speed Rail. (High speed rail is not paying for hydrogen)
why not just use overhead electric?
Commuter rail in this part of California share their ROW with freight traffic, and the freight companies don't want overhead electrical infrastructure. It's a rather unequal relationship I think; what the freight says is the final word. Don't quote me though.
@@potblack6043 You got a good point. I mean if SoCal already had overhead wires, you would never see any double stacked freight trains in that region because they would be taller than the wires themselves.
@@T128Productions Precisely. The technology for overhead wires on double stack lines does exist, and I know of a few current uses of the method in India and China, but the downside of that is that overhead clearance would have to accommodate both double stack freight and the electrical infrastructure.
@@potblack6043 They use doublestacks under wire in New Jersey, Pennsylvania, New York, Delaware, Maryland, Massachusetts, and Colorado. California's public sector is just incompetent at project management so the commuter agencies don't want to have to wait 2 decades for electrification to meet zero emission requirements.
@@T128Productions India has fully electrified freight-exclusive railways that run double stacks on flat cars, not even on well cars. Your argument doesn’t exist.
Its great to see a glimpse of a quiter, energy efficient future. Can't wait to ride it!
I don’t really care too much about this movement, but it’s still interesting to learn about this stuff.
Battery electric trains can also do the same thing for trips that are hundreds of miles away too.. Regenerative braking has huge advantages there! As long as trains are zero emission I am all for it!
Or just put up wires like people have been doing for over 100 years lol
Should have been electric catenary
Its US, so common sense regarding railways & efficient public transportation is not well received & executed.
They can't be serious about a barely used passenger train making any difference with air quality when this is the warehouse and truck distribution capital of the world.
Electrify the tracks…
Alternate headline: American trains will do anything but electrify their trains
@@ITripReport because the freight railways wont allow it( for good reason)
All is good until it catches fire, explodes, and a news reporter cries out "oh the humanity"
Hindenburg reference 🔥
I'm a skeptic...20 million cost vs. how much for an old style train? I live in Redlands & the new line seems empty everytime I see it crossing. Meanwhile there are 10000 cars driving all around it so how is this saving the air quality?
It’s up to people to get out of their cars and ride the train.
It’s just for show. So Gruesome can brag and get his party all hyped up for the “green new deal”
@@marzzgli1278 oh move to Ohio loser
@@marzzgli1278 Now that you mentioned the “green new deal,” same thing applies to EVs which is extremely foolish. Why not let the people choose which cars they want instead of having the government to decide for us? Am I right?
These are about twice the upfront cost of the diesel-electric version.
I'm glad the technology is being adopted. It is, of course, not the best solution for all places and situations, but it gives you options. If you can't electrify for whatever reason, you only have two options - stay with diesel, go H2 or use battery. Battery powered trains still need parts of the tracks with overhead wires for charging. Charging times and battery range is simply still an issue. Also with the adoption of the H2 tech, it's development will keep being funded so generation/storage/transit will improve over time.
where do they get the hydrogen?
Overhead power lines take a lot of time to engineer, verify clearances, install and maintain. Fuel cell is a lot simpler installation plus no moving parts.
PS- Assume they will take excess solar power during the day and use it to electrolyze water to capture hydrogen.
That FRA test facility in Pueblo, Colorado is very hard to get to. They do not want people looking around.
Costs to operate? I didn't hear if it is more or less than Diesel and by how much. Still, very excited as Hydrogen makes inroads into short haul trucking and now trains. As long as the torque is not diminished thus reducing passenger count.
I saw that one in the depot
sigh...
Hydrogen is very stupid as an energy carrier. I'm tired of explaining why. Go look at the Toyota Miria's stunning failure as an example. Converting your diesels to green dimethyl ether and/or compressed natural gas is a much, much, much better option.
Do you want to know what really grinds my gears? Scams like this.
Toyota has been selling hydrogen cars in California for years, and guess who's buying them now. Almost no one, that's who. Here's the deal. Hydrogen is not zero emissions. Hydrogen is generated by steam reforming natural gas. This is an extremely expensive process that has huge c02 emissions. The resulting hydrogen fuel is incredibly expensive and difficult to work with. This is a complete joke.
Overhead wires have been used to power trains between DC and New York for over a hundred years now. It's a must better option.
India has already converted nearly all of its trains to zero emissions with overhead wires. In India over 95% of the rail network of 68,000 kilometers is under electric power. In the us only 1% of the rail network uses electric power. It's an absolute joke. The cost of buying this one hydrogen train probably would have paid for the electrification of a significant part of the nine miles of track this train will run on. Existing diesel electric locomotives can be converted to run on overhead electric power quite easily. Indian railways has already converted hundreds of engines to run on overhead power. They even have dedicated freight corridors with extra high wires where double stack container trains run on electric power.
The US Department of Transportation recommended that 1/3 of the US railroad network be placed under electrification after the 1973 oil crisis. Of course, the railroads threw the report in the trash. The next oil crisis will be even worse than 1973.
Unfortunately, the greedy railroad CEOs in the US and Canada have spent so much time bending over backward for big oil that they don't even know how to stand up straight.
Crazy idea idea put overhead catenary lines. It’s a tried and true method.
@@OddsandEnds for this line yes, but many metrolink lines are owned by freight
@@lalakerspro i would think if Metrolink payed up and left anough clearence it might work
Hydrogen gas is extremely expensive. Next, where does hydrogen gas come from. The most economical method so far is a thermo-catalytic method that converts methane and water to hydrogen and CARBON DIOXIDE. A problem with rail transport is that the train always leaves somewhere where you're not at and takes you to not exactly where you dont want to go. Another problem is safety, being assaulted. And finally, metro rail is a multi-million dollar place for homeless to sleep. I'll take my car, thanks. .
Nice 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
Where does the Hydrogen come from to fuel the Hydrogen fuel cell?
The future of train transportation is finally here, bravo 🎊 🎉🎊🥰🥰😇😇❤️❤️
overhead wires exist yall
If Indian Railways can electrify 20% of their entire subcontinent's rail network in one year, us Californians have no excuse! Buy out (or seize via eminent domain) the privately-owned freight railways' infrastructure, electrify all of it, and expand CalTrain to European levels of service throughout our entire state!
I actually really prefer the og metrolink idk I just don’t like how it looks it’s just looks like the metro gold line and metrolink had a kid a this is what we got a Tran louder than the metro gold line and the og metrolink I mean I really grew up with the og trains and to see this is just straight up weird.
$20 million?
Ouch.
That's 0.5% the price of the LAX people mover.
Meanwhile in Europe…
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
2 years of testing? Typical of California.
You don't think it's important to test new trans before bringing them to the public? I hope you're not in charge of something important for your day job.
@@arthurpizzachyna
@@arthurpizza What's to test? No, two years is too long. It's California. Most over regulated state in the nation.
It’s probably going to fail testing like it did in Europe. This train is terrible if you want to run trains fast and frequently, which is Metrolink’s entire long term goal.
@pinhead35 the flrt H2 is actually used daily on some linescalready in Europe. Where are you getting the information?
We should actually expand stuff rather than going for stupid yuppie garbage
What you’re saying is instead of buying new trains that are “safe for the environment,” we should convert all of our locomotives from diesel to hydrogen? Sounds like a cheaper solution than to waste money on trains built from other different countries. I mean whatever happened to Made In The USA? Come on!
@@T128Productionsthese are manufactured in the us by a European company and being multiple units can accelerate faster thus providing a better service.
Metrolink seriously needs to get rid of all the old trains, they're so dated.
It will probably wind up the same way as the high-speed rail between L.A. and San Francisco
No. CHSR is full electric and will work very well.
@@DemPilafian But what would happen if there was a blackout? Shouldn’t they have backup generators at the ready or solar panels as well to provide extra backup power or something?
@@T128ProductionsCAHSR is building solar panels to be run on 100% clean energy. That’s actually apart of the project.
In progress?
@@horsesrlife5311 on hold
I try to avoid San Bernardino because I'm tired of hearing bad words in Spanish.
I’m tired of hearing bad words in English, French, and Italian as well
Maybe there's a reason you're hearing those words.
A sphincter says what?
@@Starflare5 Guess what. I heard them from total strangers. I went to San Bernardino because it's a railroad hot spot. I just save my gas and don't show up in a town of haters and criminals.
@@solarman350 Reported for hate speech.
More hydrogen electric vehicles
👎
👎
👎👎👎👎👎
👎👎👎👎👎👎👎👎👎👎👎👎👎👎👎
If Trump is elected, state govt might want to stop all of the wasted money on this empty project and the whole fast rail nonsense. Oil gasoline autos FTW
You're funny
It's the future! Until it has an accident and goes off like bunker buster. Then they'll say no one could have predicted this failure.