The Truth About the USDA & Canning Safety Rules
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
- Let's talk about the truth behind the USDA in America and it's home canning industry regulations and recommendations. The USDA has specific and fair guidelines for the canning process and its safety. They have different guidelines for each different food to preserve as well as for different canning methods. For more information, visit the blog post here: melissaknorris...
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#canning #fdaapproved #pressurecanner - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
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I have a recipe book from the WWII era and it has guidelines for both water bath and pressure canning, because as it states “not everyone can afford a pressure canner.”
Does the waterbath canning include non acidic foods?
@@gardengrowinmawmaw8642 yes, it does.
@@heatherrue2655 Wow!! They tried to make "Karens" out of us even way back in the 40s!
@@gardengrowinmawmaw8642 When I am canning non acidic foods, meat and vegetables I add 1/2 to 1 teasp of Apple Cider Vinegar to a pint jar. It used to be added years back when my Mother was canning but the recipe books including Ball Mason don't seem to add it. For non acidic fruits one needs to add 1 teasp of lemon juice to the pint jar.
@@gardengrowinmawmaw8642 LOL - great comment!
This sparked a great conversation with my mom. She said that when grandma was young (1920-30), great-grandma water bathed everything. But about the time of the Great Depression, she started pressure canning, incentivized by government programs. As a side note, my Grandpa received a deferral in WWII because he was a farmer - the government needed him home producing food. Such a great family history conversation!
Love comments like this, thanks for posting :)
My mother was from Germany (born in the early 30s) and her comments about how she, my grand and great grandmother's did it reflected the same as yours.
Pressure canning was quick. They needed safe but also quick! Think about that.
My grandmother came from Italy, she made us all types of hot sauces, regular pasta sauce, preserved eggplant using open kettle method. I never knew what it was called it’s just.. what we did! And we reused salsa jars pickle jars anything really?! They would pop when you opened them and everything. I never questioned I just ate it, never knew of anyone who got sick in her village from doing this. I guess I trusted the tradition and wisdom of my elders!!
the retort to that is here in the US perhaps our tomatoes have less acidity so are more prone to having botulism problems....I waterbath a lot and with tomatoes I add extra lemon juice.....I have a pressure canner but honestly, it does not save any time, and infact takes longer to do.....
My great grandfather drove a Model 'T', it served him well for his era. I drive a modern F-150 pickup, it serves me well.
My great grandmother canned using the open kettle and water bath methods for all foods, it served her well in her era. I use water bath and pressure canner, it serves me well.
Good to know the old ways incase everything goes to hell. But until then, I will use updated methods.
I'm not disrespecting your way or opinion. Just stating my view on old ways versus newer methods.
@@redstone1999 well said!
Pressure canning heats to a higher temperature than open kettle canning. Boiling water will kill botulism but not botulism spores; however, if you're canning acidic food (such as pickled vegetables or sugary preseves/jams/jellies) then open kettle is fine.
@redstone1999 my point was that I blindly trusted this food because I trusted the people who made it. However now that I am canning for my own children and do not have a splinter of my elders’ knowledge.. I do not steer from guidelines, guess I should have clarified that!
Im in Australia, we dont have pressure canners here, nor do many places in the UK or Europe, and for generations families have been waterbathing everything, I still have a book from the manufacturer of Australian preserving jars with recipes for waterbathing raw meat. The note at the bottom of recipe, before consuming food from jars, it must be reheated thoroughly. If anything the last 2.5 years have shown is that government bodies who make up these regulations, are often sponsored by those same corporations who will benefit greatly with massive profits from those "rules" being implemented.
I'd love to come across an old Fowlers book, but I've been searching op shops far and wide and I've never seen one! Also I have seen pressure canners online here, but they're $$$$ so I don't have one. I probably will get one eventually, but I'll have to save up for it for a while. I don't think that should stop me canning stuff now with what I have available.
I follow Weck guideline for canning, they are online too. There are two main differences though. One being the jars have a six week resting time at room temperature to check if a seal breaks, before it's put into a cool cellar where it could take many months for botulism to build up enough gas to break a seal. And also it's recommended to bring food to a boil before eating if its practical. I also can bread and cake after baking it at high heats. Because traditional German root cellars are about ten degrees year round fat doesn't spoil for years. It's a matter of using resources available. I think if you have a thousand plus dollars to ship a canner overseas to preserve then why not.
Apparently we poor non americans are all at a terrible risk of dying horrible deads of botulism, wich you can avoid by the highly complicated method of keeping clean and heating the canned food to a boil for a few seconds 🙄.
I bought my pressure canner from ozfarmer in NSW. I am a kiwi and it was the nearest source
Hi look up Aussie mason they stock canners and jars their factory is in Victoria cheers
This is a great video… As an old man in my 70’s I have eaten from a jar all my life. Both my grandmothers caned everything. All of them lived into there 90’s.
Thanks for the historical perspective. I'm too paranoid about food poisoning to NOT follow USDA canning guidelines. When it comes time to pop the seal on my home-canned food, I want to feel it's safe.
I SO agree with you. If my 95 year old mother or my 2 year old grand nephew died and had eaten some of my canned food?? I simply cannot even fathom this outcome and would feel guilty even if my food was not listed as COD. I would note that no new development has been done by our government over the last 50+ years, so lobbyists, etc., didn’t have a look in to the findings. You may CERTAINLY buy a logger and app and check each batch you do, but following the USDA’s guidelines is easier.
Same
Then do it right and it will be safe. Don’t be afraid.
@@JohnJohnson-yc7wv Amen to that.
Yes. Look into things for yourself. Life 101
I have canning guides from Ball, Kerr, Bernardin and even the USDA going back as far as the 1920s on up through the fifties, sixties, seventies and so forth. In those old guides there are often tables for canning with a pressure or water bath canner for the same foods, including meats. One example that comes to mind is the 1955 Kerr canning guide. It gives times for canning meats at one hour fifteen minutes for pints, one hour thirty minutes for quarts in a pressure canner. Same jars of meat canned in a boiling water bath canner are three hours and thirty minutes, it does not distinguish jar size, pints or quarts, same time. I also have old USDA canning guides that have the very same information as the canning jar companies printed at that time. Agreed any new canning guide you buy printed in the last few decades don't mention any of these procedures; but that doesn't mean you cannot safely do it. You can purchase these old canning guides at used book stores or even ebay if you search a little bit for them. They are well worth the cost to buy one or two of them! I am an old man, my wife and i have canned using those guides for many years, in fact most of our food comes from our gardens and our own animals, and most always it gets processed into jars and sits on our shelves for some time before we eat it. We of course eat the oldest jars first. It works well for us, and everyone that eats some of my pulled pork that I first smoked, then canned, then opened the jar and heated it up in a microwave to spread around on sandwiches, everyone compliments us on it. We are not unique, all over the South folks still garden and can food of all sorts, at least folks out in the country.
That was a great historical review.
The pressure canner isn't really any sort of mystical improvement to food preservation. As you mentioned, it does use steam - but only as a means of temperature measurement, not cooking. In a pressure canner, water is boiled exactly the same as in an open, water bath canner. It's the "pressure" part that makes the difference between the two methods (as you would suspect). Pressure canners take advantage of an important characteristic of water in that water boils at different temperatures under different pressures. So, with the little weight on the top of the canner, the water is forced to boil at a higher temperature than would otherwise be found with the water bath pot - the water in a pressure canner, with the weight on, gets hotter because it's at a higher pressure. (You can make water boil at room temperature by simply changing the pressure by subjecting it to a vacuum - dont try to can food this way, it wont work).
Each new canner comes with a manual that tells you the approximate temperature in the canner for different weight settings and at different altitudes (remember that the higher your altitude, the lower temperature water will boil at, and this directly affects the temperature inside the pressure canner as well as the open bath kettle). The higher temperatures you can achieve with the pressure canner directly affects temperature resistant bacteria in the food, namely botulism.
The problem found with open kettle or water bath canning practices is that the can or the water bath pot themselves along with the heat source (think wood stoves or camp fires or poorly made gas stoves) may create cooler areas within the kettle in rare instances and, if the jar isn't cooked long enough, may cause some volumes of the food inside the jar not to heat sufficiently to kill the bacteria. Pressure canners, firstly, are uniform in their heat distribution and secondly have a higher heat of cooking which lead to all the food being cooked thoroughly.
Yes, in years/decades/centuries past uncountable numbers of people have successfully preserved using open kettle or water bath methods - it's just that you don't hear or know about those few who were unsuccessful, killing portions of or whole families in one meal. The instances were rare, but spectacularly catastrophic when they occurred. The poison created by the botulism bacteria is not destroyed by cooking. You cant smell it, you cant taste it - you have no way of knowing it's in your food.
A large pressure canner is less than $200, much less at good will or a second hand store. You can buy 5 or 6 new canners for the price of one Iphone. Yes, you'd probably be ok without the pressure canner - but why take the risk? Cost certainly isn't a valid reason for anyone.
WHO among others state that botulism toxin is destroyed at 80-85C. As long as you live below 14,000 feet a five minute boil will destroy it.
Nope. Nope. Nope. I will not listen to what ANY of them say. Cov did that in. Absolutely no trust. Gone
"generally I am not very trustfull of a lot of government agencies"
Instantly subscribed
Yusss, me too!! 🤣
Same!
O, the risks we take every day!!! I pressure can, but I know my ancestors had no way of knowing that pressure canners existed, since they had no media to advertise them. I totally understand how and why to pressure can. But, I also feel protective of my ancestors, since they DID preserve food, and they DID live to tell about it, and they DID what they had to do to feed their families. There are people now who cannot afford a pressure canner...lets not go there. I know what I'm talking about. There are people who are keeping tradition alive, like the Amish, by not using a pressure canner. If I'm no wrong, botulism comes form the earth. If that is correct, all food we eat fresh would have botulism spores in it and we'd all be dead anyways. Lets look on the brighter side of things.....Living life is a risk. Breathing is a danger, as is riding in a car, walking, so we all take major risks with our lives every day. We put our childrens' lives at risk every day by letting them crawl around, eat dirt, pick their noses, and by putting them in a moving vehicle. Not pressure canning is a MUCH lower risk of death than anything else we do each day.
I see you had my comment deleted. I wasn't trying to be obnoxious, but there is a difference between the botulism bacteria and the botulism spores that makes the spores deadly after heating them over a certain temperature. I feel that, by having my comment deleted, you are contributing to misinformation that could really impact peoples' health and it seems very disingenuous to react that way when more information is presented. You are right that we do more dangerous things every day (most especially getting in a car. The risk of death is actually extremely high getting in a car and no one takes that as seriously as they take canning). I was just trying to provide more information on WHY there is a difference between the spores and the botulism bacteria that is found on food naturally.
@@sydney6268 😳 Who had your comment deleted?? I didn't know, we as a commenter, could delete others comments.
@@DoctorSuezz the original poster can delete replies
@@sydney6268 The spores do not become deadly by being heated; they produce a toxin when they're in a moist, anaerobic environment (i.e. a vacuum). The spores themselves are harmless, which is why we don't get botulism from raw or cooked food. Dry canning flour, rice, beans, etc. is also okay, because even if they're in a vacuum, there's no moisture. You have to have a combo of both vacuum and moisture.
The toxin is made harmless when infected food is reheated to, I think it is, 160 degrees. Normal cooking temps, in other words. So that may be why people getting sick is a rare occurrence in the waterbath community: people normally reheat their canned food before eating it.
@@kerim.peardon5551 sorry my original comment that got deleted was more clear on the distinction, but you're right. Just that the temp is 185 to render the toxin inert. The problem is that heating it to the level to kill most bacteria is what makes spores release the toxin in the first place. The CDC article on botulism explains it well
My Mom and Dad canned everything my Dad grew or killed and never used a pressure cooker. They canned everything with a water bath. It’s a damn shame it finally killed them from old age at 89 years old.
The actual facts is that pressure canning is a safer way to can foods for long term storage. However we in the U.S. have been sold on a ridiculous lie. It is only in the U.S. that you find people using pressure canners because Americans have a government that rules through fear. If you go to Europe people have canned without pressure for many many years and they do so without fear of botulism. The Number of people who get botulism each year nowadays is almost zero. Our food handling mechanisms are far better than they were way back. The chances of getting sick from undercooked or poorly handled foods is minimal. Most FDA alerts come from having people from third world countries handling the food while they are too poor to take a day off even if they are sick. I have grown old around Mennonite and Amish farmers who's wives would never even consider what pressure canning is ! Get over your fear America, not everything that goes against your Government propaganda is gonna kill you ! These recommendations come from the 50's when the government began colluding with the food industry and the medical industry. They specifically wanted to create a populace that was addicted to manufactured foods where they found out that people could become more addicted to sugar than even the cocaine that was in the original Coke recipe. So they cut a deal between the government and the food and medical industries. The food industries were allowed to add sugar to every single product they could which was all of them. Secondly the Medical industry would be able to treat the illnesses without curing any of them so they could make money through their treatments rather than through cures. One aspect of what they wanted to do was stop people from canning food because that is what these food companies like general foods was doing. They wanted people to buy their canned products rather than do it themselves !
So true.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Amazing, isn't it? See how people follow "right" over "wrong"?
@@gardengrowinmawmaw8642 No I see how people follow fear and propaganda. What right and wrong do you see them following?
@@Poppy_love59 The right way to can (meaning the approved methods) over the wrong way (unapproved methods). But you are absolutely correct
ENFORCE YOUR FREEDOM. ASK OLDER FOLKS, AND NEVER TRUST THE THOSE WHO ENFORCE THEIR IDEALOGIES UPON YOU. WE HAVE COMMON SENSE AND YOU KNOW THERE ARE DARK POWERS AND DOERS OF EVIL IN THESE UNTRUSTED ORGANIZATIONS.
RoseRed Homestead did tests using a digital canning logger that she placed inside a jar of her canned food. She tested different electric canners and pressure cookers to determine if these allowed foods to get up into a “safe zone” for killing clostridium botulinum. She could process a jar of food with the logger inside the jar, then remove open the jar and remove the logging device. After that, she connected the logger to her computer and got a readout, which showed if the food had gotten into the safe zone. But those darn loggers are expensive!😜
I love Rose Red Homestead! She is a scientist, a gardener, a canner, all with an emphasis on food security. She highly, highly recommends using the USDA guidelines for food canning, and explains WHY and HOW.
I like her channel but I will add this: a one time test with different canners is not particularly scientific. It needs to be repeated several times and compared. Also different sized jars, whether there was acidity for different products say different types of tomatoes , level of acidity added….I could go on.
Did any of the electric pressure cookers fail?
@@islandgrl2005 they did.
I find her SOOO annoying 🙄
But she's smarter than me
European here.. we only water bath… there are many countries that continue with family preserves.
Second that.
Pressure canners are not for sale here in europe. We wb everything, have done so for 100’s of years. Do we fear botulism? No, why? Because we boil/heat every non acidic product before eating. Because although botulism spores may survive boiling temps, the bacteria itself will not. Latest case of botulism in my country was in 2014, by raw honey, and before that in 2002 also raw honey. 🤷🏽♀️
So😂 i dont really rely on the usda 😂😂
Amen, been repeating that over and over. INDUSTRIAL cured meats, in my country. A couple of cases in decades.
My point is I don't want to have to cook or heat up something in order to eat it
@@lucky43113 i imported a pc for this reason 😊
As a kid, I remember canning jam using paraphin to seal the jars.
Great video! Given the potential disaster from under canning, the extra few minutes seems to be well used. Another myth I'd like to see you look into you would be the recommendation that you only use lids one time. I make bone broth in large quantities and pressure can it in pint and quart jars. With the advent of COVID, the price of jar flats went through the roof. (I'm not sure if it was the incompetence of companies to gear up production or just their enjoyment of windfall profits??) It got to the point where it was almost cheaper to buy a new case of jars than a box of flats. I started reusing my flats. It requires careful opening but is not difficult. I have had nearly 100% sealing and have used some flats three or four times.
I did some tests of my own the last few years. I agree you can safely reuse the lids 2 and 3 times. I didn't try it a forth time... Always be careful when removing the lid.
@@pamalamcguire5642 , I did the same, I was new to canning. I had one seal failure per canner set. I dont know if inexperience, if mixing lids and jar brands, or damaged lids or all of these was at fault.
I tried reusing for the first time this year. So far, good results. I labeled each used lid jar so I know to inspect the contents well.
I re-use my flats. I soak them in boiling water as it repositions the silicone seal. I do add some white vinegar to the water as a precaution to cleanliness. I re-use the flats no more than 3 times. I have had very little failures...Jo
tattler lids have been a great investment, but there is a learning curve. I started using them BECAUSE of the shortage. tattlers were only 3x the price but could be used many times over
The USDA guidance for home canning is for the safest method of canning, not the only method of canning.
There's no reason to regard the USDA guidance as a mandate.
I just ordered and rec'd their book.....with my canning, I do network searches from different perspectives.....I just canned some blackberries and I got about 3 different canning times.....
It is the same agency that up until recently was recommending we eat 12 full servings of grain each day lol. WTF are they doing being in charge of nutrition guidelines anyway? Like they are just a big ag lobby or something, hmm.
One thing I have found is that, the more you know about what can go wrong, the scarier things are. For example, I took a number of chemistry class in college before changing my major. When I first made mead, I was preparing the StarSan and was thinking, "ah it's no big deal. It's a sanitizer, it's food safe, otherwise they wouldn't use it for this." So I didn't really think about the proper concentration as I was making it.... then I looked at the bottle. It's like 50% phosphoric acid. It's totally fine and safe to use... when diluted properly. My chemistry teacher in high school always laughed at the art kids as they carted away random acids to use in projects, saying "they have no idea how dangerous what they're doing is." He could tell them a million times "remember, that's concentrated HCL, it's dangerous" and it's just yeah, yeah and they carried it away on a rickety cart with no lids.
This country hasn't always been this screwed up with the craziness we have in the agency's . We presure can and hot bath . The same way our great grandparents did . Never heard of anyone ever getting sick like I did eating at McDonalds a few years ago . Thank for your video , there are so many people trying to be more responsible for providing their own food .
I suspect if you only can fresh food, and you follow good sanitary procedures in sterilization and preparation, the chances of botulism contamination are pretty low. Pressure canning is a fail safe in case you didn't.
some of those recomendations came after a family of 9 :2 parents and 7 children died from botulism after eating caned geen beans that they had put up themselfs.
The food preservation contest held by Napolean resulted in water bat canning. In europe water bath canning is still used for everything to this day. Pressure canners were invented in their present form in the USA in the early 1900's. Many people use water bath canning for everything including meat with no problem. You must increase proccesing time by a great deal to be safe.
Melissa, you opened a can of worms. I looked at the comments and it's the same thing I hear when I talk about canning here in the Ozarks. A good canner is a one-time investment and if you get an "All-American" it will get passed to your children. So why not be safe. Modern canners have several safety features and you would have to try hard to make one blow up. Another good resource is "Rose red homestead". She does research that is very interesting. Thanks again, you are the best!
Rose Red is an AWESOME resource for canning, especially newbies 😍
Was food preserved before pressure canning?
Did populations continue to grow using those prior methods?
Those prior methods were absolutely tried and tested by TIME and USE….
Populations have ALWAYS dealt with issues of food born sicknesses and even deaths. Even when following governmental guidelines and government inspections. Common sense can never be regulated by any government. We must all use common sense in caring for and feeding our families.
A person canning food using a pressure canner and absent of common sense and experience can poison the family and blow things up. A person canning food using the wisdom and instructions of time and their elders will not if common sense are being used.
@@houseonthehill8485 MOST of the world does not use pressure canners and many places use a simple jar lid that they tighen with an instrument and don't even cover the jars with hot water....some in Italy simply do open kettle and turn their jars upside down and cover with a blanket and that's what they call canning.....
Even she did not say water bath was in itself unsafe, she explained how it was necessary to hold the rolling boil for much longer in order to achieve the same results. Also in Europe the jars used have much more robust lids which might make a difference, Bormillio or Weck, not a bit of thin tin. If it was so dangerous those from Eastern Europe would all be dead as they do a ton of it and have done so for years. I know of no one who has died from eating this way.
The answer to "Should you trust any gov org?" is no 99.99999% of the time, it's more reliable than hand sanitizer.
I'm thinking that in the early 1940s a federal agency would not have had an ulterior motive or hidden agenda when making food preservation recommendations. That is no longer true: Big Food benefits financially if fewer people are self sufficient and everyone must buy more of their processed food products.
The Amish have water bathed mostly everything forever. They don't do pressure canners. Would love to see you do a video about them the water bathing vs the pressure canning an how they have made it so many years with their WB methods.
Absolutely love your videos!
I believe they use wood stoves so the temperature would be significantly higher than a traditional stove top. Perhaps that's why the canning authorities have placed restrictions on some methods? Just a thought.
There's a channel called Makeitmake and she has a whole playlist on Amish canning. Very interesting.
Botulism can't be detected though, through look or smell etc., and I also would bet that the vast majority of people today, even many homesteaders, don't have as good of gut health as people used to, due to all of the things bad in the diet and toxins etc. out there of the past many decades. The people of 40, 50 years ago were eating crappily too, BUT they often had actually grown up on very good diets, and many even then were not consuming the amount of refined sugars, much less the gmos and 'cides and stuff, we have since the 80s. My point on all that is how raw honey has the chance of having botulism toxin in it, but it's risk &/or amount is low enough that it's still been allowed to be sold, but we are warned not to give it to babies under 1 year old, the elderly and anyone with a compromise immune system. I wouldn't want to have my store-room filled with stuff I would be afraid to serve a friend stopping by, company or my husband to share part of his lunch with a co-worker ( they do often share things). While I'm all for exploring which of the supposedly improper ways of canning ARE safe, there actually are reasons to be very careful. Most people nowadays take a death in the family way worse than people used to. To have just one person out of 30 die from things canned not quite safely enough... well, I doubt they knew why they'd died, and they also maybe didn't have to be worried about being held liable... .
@@olyadowning2825 it's nice to see someone else who knows about her channel. She has taken a lot of criticism over that subject, it's sad.
The Amish have been eating food using old canning methods for generations. Their digestive systems are used to eating this way. I’m Mennonite and wouldn’t eat the canned food the Amish make. Just sayin!
There are three times I always follow recommended recipes and practices: canning food, preserving meat using nitrates, and loading ammo. So much of the canning info on TH-cam is not fully tested, and while it may work I won’t trust it for mine or my family’s safety. Thank you for sharing this.
I chuckled a little bit on your loading ammo part. While it is not a funny subject but a matter of life and death, so is safe canning. Good point!
Very interesting history! Thanks for setting things straight. I have canned (glass jars) for myself and my family using the open kettle method and I have never had any issues. If a seal on a jar goes bad, it is very obvious. In fact, my mother told me that my grandmother canned the same way I do and never had a problem. I agree that regulation should be required for large corporations where the risk botulism is very high for companies producing very large batches of food that are sold to millions of customers that may have been transported long distances and handled often on the way to the canneries. The government does need to stay out of the way of small farmers, market gardeners and homesteaders who can directly from their farms/gardens and who eat that product themselves and sell/share with their family, friends, neighbors and local communities at small scale and low risk. That said, there is nothing wrong as far as I know with canning per the USDA, it may just be overkill in many, but not all cases. People need to do their own research. Again, thanks for this interesting video.
It's one thing to eat it yourself, but you definitely shouldn't share it with others unless you've told them you canned it incorrectly. Here's a very interesting video from a survivor of botulism speaking with the Utah State University on safe canning: th-cam.com/video/ON8FEyVHE30/w-d-xo.html. It's important to remember how statistics works as well. Just because it's worked 999 times without a problem doesn't mean it won't fail the 1000th time. Taking that risk yourself is fine, but other people you might share it with might not be fully informed of that risk. Even if the USDA (feds) absolutely shouldn't be involved in controlling local distribution, this has always been under state/local control and states typically do have their own food safety and distribution laws.
@@sydney6268 Completely agree with you on transparency. Wish there was more of that.
The Usda makes suggestions not laws. I was also raised & learned using the water bath method. But, both of my grandmothers switch to pressure cookers when they could afford them and used them until they died in their 90's. That's good enough for me!
The US stopped testing in the 70s. I've been WB canning everything for 60 years, all my recipes come from ancestors, Amish and other countries. Still alive, imagine that. People think our way is the only way in US, not me. I know how our greedy government is and has always been. Spot on!
@@gpashh I think your government makes rules instead of a good free education. Here you're only allowed to sell canned food if you have a masters degree in a food profession and an approved kitchen.
I’ll take an old recipe/practice over the current USDA regulations everyday.
I'm in some rebel groups on FB who do things like open kettle, waxing, and Waterbath meats and veg. Now, I won't lie, I have some rebel recipes on my shelf right now like dry canned potatoes and burritos in a jar. But I draw the line at things like open kettle and waterbathing everything. And one thing I've noticed in that group that I don't see in my other groups is the insane amount of jar failures and food waste. I've been canning for about 13 or 14 years. I've only ever lost 2 jars. Both I know exactly what went wrong. One was a false seal from leaving the ring on before I knew better and the other was too much headspace on a reusable lid. But that's it. Out of hundreds and hundreds of things I've canned over the years. But it feels like every day in the rebel group are a dozen posts over food loss. That's just unacceptable to me.
My grandmother canned using wax but only for jellies/ jam which had a ton of sugar and lemon juice to bring up the acid levels. I prob wouldnt do it now since regular lids are available
I would agree that the USDA has tried and tested guidelines for canning different foods - BUT, the recipes or the procedure to can differently are not approved because they have NOT tested them - so ...............please show me the tests/ studies they did to prove that canning vegetables and or meat and or meals can not be done with the water bath canning method ! I would like to read over their test results to show that the foods were tainted or rotten and dangerous to eat and store for long term storage when not pressure canned !
This is why there still needs to be “home economics “ in schools. Food preservation, balancing finances, sewing, car maintenance for average person to function before they become billionaires vis viral video. 😀😀
I looked for a pressure cooker in Argentina. There's only 10 liters max and they cost like a refrigerator. I'll have to stick to water bath, like It or not
USDA applies to industry, do it like they did before the USDA was created and you probably won't have any problems.
Why did the USDA stop testing???? There are MANY, MANY foods they have not tested. If they were so concerned of our safety, they would still be testing.
Did you watch the whole video, l covered this, they stopped when the war ended because they no longer needed to send food to troops.
@@MelissaKNorris I did. My point being, we eat more different things today than we did in the 40's.
@@gardengrowinmawmaw8642 They should constantly be testing and re testing to make sure things are safe and modern. But they stopped and lots of foods are deemed unsafe because they simple haven't been tested. If they really wanted us to can at home more, they would do that. But by keeping us scared and everything "untested" we are more inclined to buy commercial canned food. My opinion.
@@mamabairds You hit the nail on the head!
They continue to test and update all the time. That's why tested methods and recipes are important for safety.
I have read several pamphlets that had water bath canning for veggies after 1917. I was born in 1980, so they weren't almost 100 years old when I read them. I am almost certain none of them had an option for pressure canning.
Home pressure cooking, however, took a major step forward in 1938 when German Alfred Vischler introduced his “Flex-Seal Speed Cooker,” the first “saucepan-style” pressure cooker, at a New York City Trade Show. Although Vischler’s idea was on target, the product that caught the attention of homemakers was the “Presto” pressure cooker, unveiled at the 1939 New York World’s Fair. Women were thrilled with this modern saucepan-style pressure cooker because it featured an easy-to-close interlocking cover, eliminating the need for awkward lug nuts and clamps. In the United States, “Presto” soon became the name synonymous with pressure cooking. The depression was over and stores could not keep up with the demand for them. By the end of 1941, pressure cookers ranked among the largest producers of housewares dollar volume in leading stores throughout the country. At that time, there were 11 companies manufacturing pressure cookers.
I do love my Stovetop 23qt pressure canner and cooker, over my electric Nesco small batch canner. Soo much more volume of canning space.
Melissa, I just canned 8 pints of your chili con carne recipe from your new book. Of course, had to open a jar and test - right? Yum!! Absolutely love this chili recipe! This is now my go to recipe for home canned chili. And folks, if you don't have her new book, I highly recommend it. Teaser: she adds a "secret" ingredient into her chili recipe. You'll love it!
I add some carrot cuz my dad always did
Cuts the acidity
I love mushrms in mine too
Great video! There are plenty of TH-camrs out there sharing untested recipes with no disclaimer that they are not following best practices. Thank you for providing clear, factual information.
Recommendations/guidelines are important for setting a baseline for some of us who are not yet versed with the ways to can food, I'm just happy to see someone talking about this as nothing is truly fact. A well informed decision is very important, just do your own research and at the end of the day do what works best for you with what you have access to.
Thank you for this video, love the channel always👍🏻
I learned to do both, and not all foods need pressure canning. Water bath canning will do meats, but it takes hours, pressure is much faster.
I've seen many quarts water-bath canned in a washtub, because it was much bigger. Time is saved if you can get it done faster.
Personally, I've only gotten food poisoning from restaurants.
Bottom line, don't trust any three letter agencies (yes I know this one is 4)
after the past two years, I don't think the word "trust" is a thing anymore
I am really intrigued by this. I just bought a Mennonite recipe book from the early 80’s, and there are many canning recipes. A lot of the recipes include flour (which apparently you aren’t supposed to use), and there is a recipe for pumpkin purée, which “apparently “ you aren’t supposed to can. A lot of the recipes say to can for 2-3 hours! So yes, I trust these old recipes. If they were tried and true then, why can’t we use them now?
What is the name of the book you bought?
As someone who grew up in the community I can tell you that there's no problems with that. My family never knew anything about the USDA and not a single one got sick from the canned foods that we canned. The idea that you have to take off the ring or you'r gonna get sick is ridiculous to me as we never did that and never got sick. We canned a ton and always checked after canning for the seal to be secure and then again when going to open a jar. If the ring is off it seems to me easier that something will hook on the lid and release that seal easier than if the ring is on. My mom grew up in a 3rd world country doing this during the war and over the yrs nobody ever got sick back then or later as I grew up. It's a matter of checking at every stage and not relying on anything to be perfect. I'm assuming it's the Mennonite Treasuries Cookbook that you bought which is a great cookbook hope you enjoy cooking from there
Why can't you can pumpkin puree? They sell canned pumpkin in grocery stores, it tastes like hairspray, but they sell it lol.
Because commercial pressure canners reach higher temperatures than home models. It's a density issue and the heat can't penetrate the puree to ensure botulism spores are killed
@@rivi3853 it’s called The Mennonite Treasury of Recipes, I found it while thrifting. It’s a Canadian Version, with the woman’s names under each recipe (for who submitted it)
Have you seen Atlas jars.... We purchased an 1880 farm house that came with around 100 plus canning jars and some of those say Atlas. Now that being said, there are several jars that look to be old glass mayo jars too. I have used them as well and they work just as well as my Kerr and Ball mason jars
Thank you! I'm new to canning and want to know correct methods
should we trust them?! the answer is ALWAYS NO!!!! ALWAYS!!!! buckle up folks its gonna be a bumpy ride!!!!!
Thank you Melissa! For a well done video based on facts. One thing that I do not see talked about much, or at all on this topic, is where the bacteria that causes Botulism comes from. ( please forgive me if you have done so) Clostridium botulinum bacteria, plus two other botulinum, are found mostly in the soil, water sediment, and sometimes in untreated water. Our soil is FULL of bacteria, that in nature are great at what they do in their natural surrounding. But once ingested by us, are NOT beneficial and can be deadly like the botulinum. ( I recently was treated for Narcoidosis of the lungs from a bacteria that had made its way into our well from an improperly installed well cap, that is even after using a 10 stage water filter!)
In home food preservation, our FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE is, and always will be, to THOROUGHLY wash our produce! I recently bought 18 little bunches of Cilantro to can salsa. It took FOUR sink loads of a wash AND rinse before that water came out clear!!! You would not believe how dirty and brown the first sink of water was! Looking at the Cilantro you would never thought it was that dirty!
For us gardeners, and anyone really, Botulinum can also enter the body through wounds. I myself if I have a cut on my hands, and am working in the garden, wrap the cut with medical tape over the band aids and also wear rubber gloves. The gloves, while they don't last long, also save a lot of time scrubbing our hands and the dirt from under our finger nails! I would suggest anyone who does food preservation at home, to read BOTH research, medical, or scientific based articles (USDA, FDA, CDC, etc), and home canning safety articles on the subject.
You are so right.
@@gardengrowinmawmaw8642 Thank you!
I am 68 years old and my mother had a pressure cooker! She used it to cook meals but never caned food with it. She had that thing for as far back as i can remember. It was made by the Revere company that made pots and pans! Thats how old it was.
I have some caning jars dated from 1924 the glass jars with the rubber rings.
I live in Canada i have a pressue canner and a pressure cooker! I have had them or newer ones since 1977 when i got married.
@@joannathesinger770 sorry to hear that! My mom never had any trouble and neither have i!
I still have a few Ball jars (glass lids, rubber rings) of BLUE glass, from my grandmother (born 1884). My little daughter 8 yrs old painted an image of flowers in one of these jars, ~1990.
One thing that I don’t follow the USDA recommendations in canning is pickled banana and jalapeño peppers bc canning them makes them SO MUSHY! Ive tried everything! So for years now, I have used a high vinegar and salt to water ratio for my pickled peppers and they’re always delicious and crunchy. Possibly my husband’s favorite “canned” item.
You can use lime to keep things crisp as well as an additive from Ball called pickle crisp granules which is "calcium chloride". I hope this is useful.
I prefer fermenting jalapenos personally. They stay as crunchy as when you cut them in my experience.
Add tannins to keep things more firm. Grape leaves, black teas, etc. The tannins will help veggies not go mushy.
I am with you....the recommeded canning time ruins the pickles.....try fermenting....if done right, pickles come out very crisp.
When I pickle okra, I keep them crunchy with 3 things: pickle them the same day they are picked, freeze them immediately after washing, and use CaCO3 specifically for pickling (calcium carbonate, not CaO aka lime). Freezing them before pouring the boiling brine on them prevents them from cooking into mush and they turn out even crispier than store bought. And like you said, no need to pressure can or even water bath pickles with a proper salt/vinegar brine.
I don’t trust USDA liars
Thank you for the vid! And the tip about your book. I live in Sweden and we have food recomentions as well made by the Government but there's nothing on pressure canning. So thank you!
🤣🤣 You can get botulism from store bought produce, which happens more often. Nothing is 100% safe...
People that used pressure canners way back then, were fairly well off financially. The poorer in the US & other countries had to use other means. Even now, a good pressure canner is expensive.
My mom had a pressure canner, she loved it until it exploded when I was young and the lid came close to hitting me, My mom went back to Acidic only water bath. Iv been scared of them ever since.
I thought about getting a pressure canner to overcome my fear, until I saw the prices of them.🤨
IF the USDA really cared for others to be a little safer, I would suggest the USDA influence the makers to lower their prices by a lot🤪.
If anything, the Covid lockdowns have taught people to be prepared for at least a year. You don't need USDA to tell you what to do, It's common sense on what is safe… Yes, pressure canning can be a little safer and the shelf life is much longer. But If you do things right, sterilizing, store properly with steady dry cool temp, like basements and rotate the products like in the old days, which you have to do with pressure canning also. You can water bath Meats and other Non-acidic foods for 3 to 4 hrs for a Short term shelf life of up to one year, I personally wouldn't go past 8 months if I ever do it.. 😉
Since I will never pressure can😁, I researched it and freezing lasts longer than short term canning, so long as you freeze properly, that's what I do, and I dehydrate. 😃
But if you don't have the freezer space or the money for a pressure canner, you do what you can as safely as possible.. That's really all it boils down to for anyone, Safety and what you feel comfortable doing, no matter how you preserve your food.😉
After the contaminated baby formula in USA in 2021, after the large number of infant deaths related to infant allergy over the counter medicines( which most people still are unaware about, however ask a pharmacist, they might speak about it). I myself was put on the couch barely able to breathe for two hours alone at home in early 1990s because of Seldane allergy medicine. I was lucky,other people had full-blown heart attacks and died. Why do we even have a FDA? They obviously do what is best for big pharmacy companies.
I’m in the uk and we have different rules and I use a lot of French recipes that can cake etc
I don’t use a pressure canner. I also do not can meat, personal preference. I think each person needs to do their own research and decide on which methods they personally feel comfortable with. No other country has the recommendations for home canning that America does. I find that suspect. You just can’t trust anything America does anymore because profit and power are the motivation for everything.
Pressure canning may have been invented 400 yrs ago...for the government to use but that does not mean that “the masses” have been using it that long..which is what the whole point of context is..right?
Here is a copy/paste about when homemakers started using it...
Home pressure cooking, however, took a major step forward in 1938 when German Alfred Vischler introduced his “Flex-Seal Speed Cooker,” the first “saucepan-style” pressure cooker, at a New York City Trade Show. Although Vischler’s idea was on target, the product that caught the attention of homemakers was the “Presto” pressure cooker, unveiled at the 1939 New York World’s Fair. Women were thrilled with this modern saucepan-style pressure cooker because it featured an easy-to-close interlocking cover, eliminating the need for awkward lug nuts and clamps. In the United States, “Presto” soon became the name synonymous with pressure cooking. The depression was over and stores could not keep up with the demand for them. By the end of 1941, pressure cookers ranked among the largest producers of housewares dollar volume in leading stores throughout the country. At that time, there were 11 companies manufacturing pressure cookers.
Yes, and by magic there came guidelines deeming the older methods unsafe...
in 2022 in America, if your default policy isn't "the government is lying to me", you might not be smart enough to preserve your own foods safely.
I was born in 1947 and started my own canning in the mid 60's (previously canned with my mom). my Ball canning books still used waterbacth canning for vegetables and open kettle for tomatoes. I currently use approved methods, however most of my children were raised eating foods from the old methods. We all lived but better safe than sorry. I never canned meats till 15 or 20 years ago, or dehydrated doo both now.
I’m not willing to take any risks when it comes to my family’s safety. Plus if you have a pressure canner already what’s the big deal?
Unless they been adding something they shouldn't to our food still do the canning ...Shop local farms and know where your food comes from should be fine... I trust nobody on certain things especially when its been fine for centuries just be aware of veggies as they have higher rate of botulism
Botulism spores are not destroyed until 250 F is achieved but most people aren't pressure canning to achieve these temperatures. You need botulism spores to begin with in order to contaminate your canning, and that is very rare outside of wetland environments where these bacteria live naturally. If you live in or near a swamp, pressure canning anything not pickled is very good insurance.
Melissa K Norris I do love your refrigerator pickles BTW. I share that video often. I did change up the recipe a bit to suit my tastes, it was just a tad too sweet for me, but very good otherwise.
Awww it’s past time for a update from the USDA on pressure canning and testing 💯🙏
I don’t trust the USDA/Ball tomato canning recipes. I now always check the PH of tomato based produce before w/b canning. And despite adding recommended citric acid measurements, the ph is often still over 5.9. I either pressure can as per canned beans or keep adding citric acid until ph is c4.5 before moving forward on wb canning recipe times. Jams, pickles and jellies no problem. Same as UK recipes except I w/b as per USDA times.
Thank you for giving us a summary of pressure canning. Without actually researching, I've come across pictures and drawings of some pressure canners of yore. I was surprised at thier date and amazed at how complicated some of them looked.
@@joannathesinger770 Thier reliability doesn't surprise me ....
Safe testing for home canning is important. There are things canned that we buy from stores that can't be home canned. Example would be canned pumpkin we use to make pies. It's definitely a density issue. We can't achieve with our pressure canners the temperature needed through out the processing time to make it safe. Botulism has no smell or taste, you cannot see it. Research what it takes for it to grow in your home canned foods. I have the books with safe tested recipes to follow to insure no one get's botulism. I will post a couple of pics in seperate (if I can)comments under this. One is a commercial canner, the other are probes used. Edit: it won't give me an option to post pic's. Sorry. I have them but am unable to share them. Edit 2..I was able to post the pics on her Facebook post on this.
Canned squash? I know ppl who can their own incl pumpkin and it’s fine.
The wonderful thing is we can as functional adults make our own decisions and have more faith in our family history and not be conned into what seems to be a lobby tactic. Just my opinion but of course freedom of expression.
Every agency is just seeing how far they can overstep. The goal is dependence and power.
To be honest the answer to me would be no. I honestly believe that the FDA approved crap is just that crap.
There are no "regulations," only recommendations. All based on science.
Botulism is not a joke. You can not taste it. There was a reason why meat was tried or put in salt and not in a gals in the old days.. when they started canning stuff people got poisoned. That is why we know how important it is to have the high heat and that you can not keep it that long.
Well that conversation escalated to a boil quickly. 😂 Thank you for taking time out to keep us safe. 😇🥰 I've been doing all of the canning methods since a little girl... we would pressure can venison and some savory herbs and broth with it to make it taste better for the little kids... I have loved canning and cooking and baking... anything that has to do with food... my whole life. It's an art and one that should be respected.
Great information on the history of canning!!! But, I where there is money there is corruption.... However, I learned by watching my foster father can and used a PC so I do use one. But, I don't follow the "what you can can" rule... love your channel!!! Please take a look at mine 😁
Maybe this should be titled, "The Truth About How Stupid People Are". If you can reduce your chances of getting deathly ill following canning guidelines, do it. I have no idea why anyone wants to make an argument about it, other than being terminally stupid. And for all the people saying, "My grandmother never did and she didn't get sick." Take half an hour to read the Wikipedia article on probability.
Yep why take a chance you don't have to
My mom made jams and canned fruit and never water bathed and we do not have pressure canners in South Africa and costs a fortune to import. She never poisoned us (maybe we used it up too quickly lol. But a very interesting chat
Jams and fruits are higher in acid. Botulism thrives in non acidic environments
@@doggymamadrama5881 Sugar is also a preservative.
It only takes one bad jar to die from botulism. I’d rather make sure my canning is safe than play around.
Thanks good video and good morning Melissa
It's not every day I see my last name. Wonder if we're related. Hi Rita.
The Amish have been waterbath canning for generations. My late Grams use to waterbath can high acid foods for years. I don't recall her ever canning low acid foods.
I'm 55, been canning since I was 8 (thank you Granny). In my teen years I discovered my first "canning" book. Since then I've followed the guidelines.
I first thought the title of this video was, “Why should we trust them?” and I can’t help but feel that would have been an appropriate title too 😉😋
I never thought the government was trying to make it harder to put up food by having the guidelines but I do believe not continuing study in that area is meant to make it harder because like you said its not in their best interest. There are so many things that haven't been properly tested that could be completely safe and we just don't know. I just pressure canned for the first time a few days ago and I followed the guidelines. (In reality though even if they announced new guidelines all of a sudden I think I'd struggle to accept them because I have no trust at this point.)
Super interesting history on canning!! To all those nay sayers here - Everyone has a choice on how to provide for you & your families. Many had some interesting history on Amish etc. - Different methods different reasons - nobody is totally “Right” or wrong. This is MLK’s way & why. If she were to teach or post something not FDA approved and someone got sick & sued her - it could jeopardize her business. Listen - read - follow or don’t - choices. I for one rely on her thought out researched experience and knowledge - Thank You Melissa - I follow you & your teachings because it’s a Great choice for me & mine. 💛
Great information! I tell people this all the time but "they" know better.... its all fun and games until you get botulism.. on a side note what is that metal storage container on your right?
It's a vintage bread cupboard with small bins for flour, sugar, tea and coffee
Thanks for the information. Very interesting. I’m waiting on my book to arrive. 40 years ago I helped my Mom and my Aunts do the prep work and canning as a kid. Some things water bathed and others pressure canned.
Science for the win! Thank you for actual history and the why behind the method. There's no conspiracy about canning methods, there is reputable and repeatable methodology that yields consistently safe and useful results, which (as you said) is why the methods were developed. Others point out that around the world, home pressure canning isn't available or allowed so they have other methods for checking the safety of the final product.
So... How do I can then?
I wanna do it, but if I got fda fear mongering (2020-2022 therapeutics propaganda), where do I learn??
I have videos here and tutorials on my website, all following up to date and safe practices
@@MelissaKNorris I have subbed to you and got my bell on. Thank you for replying
Thank you! I struggle with this a lot as I know there are many older canning methods that are more lax than this, and those should be honored-but as best I can tell, those methods rely in part simply on the rarity of botulism toxin getting to a problematic level. I do trust that canning regulations are accurate (aka, in order to TOTALLY avoid botulism risk, you need to follow guidelines). Many home canners may accept the very small risk that traditional methods like open kettling poses, and their friends & family really shouldn't feel endangered by that. But given how lethal botulism can be I feel that I have a responsibility to follow USDA guidelines if I'm going to be feeding anyone else, because they haven't consented to even this incredibly small risk (and I don't really want to start a dinner party by saying, "Oh! I canned these veggies myself! How wonderful. By the way, is a vanishingly small risk of ingesting a potentially lethal neurotoxin acceptable to you? Great"). AND I wish preservation TH-cam channels would take care in flagging times when the methods they're using are not following USDA regulations! Like, it's fine, if people know! But you're teaching people how to can-you're condoning a method, if you're posting it on social media-and folks should know whether the method they're trying is even a tiny botulism risk, so they can decide whether they want to accept that risk or not. It really is VERY small in most cases. But not flagging it for people is unethical, IMO. I see it all the time and it really worries me-some of these people have like hundreds of commenters saying "Oh wow I'm going to try this!" And those people may know nothing about botulism.
Very well said. 🌹
Agreed completely
Botulism toxin if even present will be destroyed by a few seconds boiling. Not the spores, but the spores don't make you sick. I read USDA guidelines, they fail to mention this "detail" . Just boil or thoroughly heat the canned food. Traditional jams have way to much sugar for botulism to develop. Traditional pickles way to much acid. We really are not kamikaze canners or stupid around the world. People are not dropping dead of botulism in countries like mine where there isn't a pressure canner in sight. But I am pretty sure once the pressure canners makers think of expanding to other countries, "safety guidelines" will follow.
@@susanamariapereirasoares7188 Your frustration about this is 100% understandable!!
Thank you for this informative video. While water bath canning and open kettle canning do get the food hot enough to kill the botulinum bacteria, it fails to kill the botulism spores, which need to reach a temperature of 250 degrees before they are killed. You can only get the food to 212 by the water bath and kettle methods. This is why low acid foods should be pressure canned. Pressure is the only way to get the correct temperature as steam can reach temperatures beyond boiling. I grew up with both of my grandmas solely using the water bath method. After taking Microbiology in college, I use the correct methods for low acid and high acid. I would rather be safe than sorry by making myself or someone I care about deathly ill. When I read the title of the video, I expected it to be one of those rebel canning videos, but I am glad I decided to watch it. Thanks for trying to spread proper food safety protocols for canning and the history behind canning methods.
Back in 1960, all Home Economic majors had to take Bacteriology as a science requirement. The very first lecture included the dangers of bacteria in home canned food. The professor had no vested interest in the home canning industry. His best advice was don't. I knew then that home caning was always going to be a home food preservation method. It did show the importance of food safety guidelines. The risk of bacterial contamination is real.
Good discussion on a controversial subject. Like some others I follow Pam on Rose Red Homestead. I, too, have a strong science background so tend to follow what appears to be the most trusted resources. While I don’t think I’m paranoid, if using methods that have been tested to be safer, why not? It’s a bit like using seat belts in cars. I’m switching from water bath to steam canning and just found out that there are some additional steps that I need to use at my high altitude to ensure safe preserving. That’s newly researched information and is available through state university extension agents. It’s about the length of time it takes at the correct temperature to kill the botulism bacteria. Thanks for opening up this discussion.
The “Ball Blue Book” is less than $15 for a current copy, can be freely downloaded in older editions, just follow it. It’s as accurate and useful as anything.
This was a great video. I learned a ton!
Thanks Morgan
Canned food invented in 1810 but did not become popular until after 1860. Pressure cooker invented 1679 but pressure canning became popular after the 1920s.
A lot of people canned food by hit or miss methods and some of them died of botulism poisoning.
If low acid food is water bath canned, it is recommended you boil it for 10 minutes before eating.
NO WE SHOULD NOT. Their recommendation is for themselves, not for us. Ask a grandparent instead
I always go by the USDA guidelines because I could never forgive myself if I lost family and/or friends to botulism from something I had canned. I recently watched a video which threw a scare into me. She said when you are in an older area of a cemetery and see several family members that died around the same time, you automatically think it was the plague or something along that line, when in fact families died of botulism from unsafe canning practices. I am now afraid to eat food prepared by others as I have no idea whether it was canned or how it was canned. I heard of a lady that took potato salad (made from potatoes she had canned, but left the peal on) to a church function which sent several to the hospital, and killed one.
When in doubt heat it for 15 minutes above 80 degrees Celsius it will kill the toxins from botulisme.
It wasn't Salmonella? People died on Cholera and Typhus, not on canned food, as they had no canning stuff 100 years ago. They had no money for it.
Pressure canner guidelines were not handed down.....because of the history of them exploding. Women were scared of them. It happened to my grandmother twice!
They’re made differently now and much safer though, right?
@@MFaith777 yes, but you do have to be aware of safety. Know your equipment.
These strict rules and Extensions police exist only in America. That should make you skeptical because micro-organisms don't discriminate. A pressure cooker might have been invented and used in the army but not widespread in homes. Big kitchens have a lot of professional gear. I am quite afraid of pressure because I've seen a water boiler blow.
Boiling water requires a lot of energy on top of what you spend cooking the food and new lids. Liquid food with some acidity brought up to 100° and canned while this heat is maintained is fine. I would not use open kettle when the jar contains cold vegetables.