Construction Glue is supposed to have some flex to compensate for the yearly seasonal flex in houses. The winter to summer to winter to summer back and forth flex needs a buffer. Tile floors would crack at the seams of the subfloor if the subfloor was glued to the joists with a firm woodglue vs a flexable construction glue every time the house expanded and contracted with the temps
thats why there are specificially designed PU wood glues, they quite differ from general purpose PU construction adhesives - the real advantage of PU wood glues over PVAc wood glues is that they can be used at far lower temperatures
@@nomen.nescio other materials can be used for durable houses as well, if applied correctly. the main difference between third and first world construction is the structural safety margin, precision, and care for qualities beyond just standing for now. in rural Austria you still occasionally come across 15th century wooden houses, and on the other end of the scale the Paneum has a meter thick wooden walls made from layers of glued strips, then screwed together on site, and outside covered in thin metal tiles. concrete, natural stone, bricks, metal, wood, glass, composites, can all have their places in building.
In my door making days, the shop I worked at we exclusively used PL Premium to glue our joinery because the shop wasn't 100% conditioned and was cold in winter. The slight flexibility allows doors to take some abuse and to also move with interior humidity changes or with seasonal changes outdoors. Our exterior main entry doors never fail.
I think the takeaway is that different glues have different uses by design. PL 400 is waterproof, works in cold weather (as do other Pl products) but it's made to flex with floor systems and bridge gaps that could cause squeaks, for ex. Especially during the construction process when moisture and temp have more effect on expansion rates, or when dissimilar materials are used - PL construction adhesive is the bees knees in this case. I think most construction adhesives (if not all) are designed to have at least some flex. I've used it for finer woodworking projects after seeing John do it too, but not often. That's what the yellow stuff is really for. It's obviously stronger and easier to work in a climatized environment.
Yeah, many applications in construction need adhesion to many surfaces, void/gap filling, good usage temperature range, reasonable initial grab/hold strength, at least some flexibility, and at a reasonable price per volume. 3M 5200 is the top end one for marine applications, not quite as strong as x8, but still one of the strongest, and easily most flexible at its strength (800% elongation to break). Soudal Fixall High Tack (European market only I think. MS polymer based), is great stuff for its price; MS Polymer ones are great to work with.
There's one major application I use construction adhesive for in a woodshop, and that's outdoor projects. Even waterproof PVA glue just doesn't hold up well in the elements in my experience, and if you're doing any cross-grain joints, they're prone to failure due to the exaggerated shrink/swell characteristics of wood outdoors and the brittle nature of the PVA glue. If I'm building Adirondack chairs or something, I'll go ahead and use construction adhesive instead of PVA glue in addition to mechanical fasteners. It also has the benefit of good gap filling, so you don't necessarily have to be as precise with your joints, which suits rougher outdoor projects that aren't works of art.
Indeed, I have had the glue on some mortise and tenon joints on an outdoor projects completely fail on me. I now mostly avoid large wood contact surfaces, cause that's where moisture accumulates and rot starts.
I didn't know that much about "construction adhesives" until we had to "re-clad" the upper part of our house. It's cedar, and unless we were going to somehow rip off the entire front end, there was no way to make it look new again. (Built in 1958. REALLY weathered.) So we bought dimenional cedar, ripped it all lengthwise, planed it and reclad all of the cedar. And, as the fellow whom I hired to do most of this said, "It's kind of like cladding your car". And that was because the front of the house has sort of "settled", shall we say? Anyway, that whole process was four or five years ago. We used many tubes of PL adhesive (I don't remember which one...400?) which was attached using stainless brads. It's still there. I suspect it'll still be there when they take me out on a stretcher. I do use it from time to time in woodworking, if it's a situation where the wood is exposed to the elements. Not the easiest stuff to work with, has to be held under pressure, takes 24 hours to cure, and whatever you do, don't get any on you. Or, have some paint thinner handy for that eventuality. Your test has confirmed what I already kinda knew. Thanks. Carry on!
I used the PL x 3 tubes when I remodeled my house and I loved it. You need to warm up the glue to make it flow easy. I throw each one in hot water for a few minutes before using. Also, spaying both surfaces with a water bottle, then clamping tight or screw it in and wait one day until set, will tear the wood apart before failing.
I'm so in love with your homemade custom machines, and your fusion of wood technology with computer technology! I hope i can reach this level of awesome.
You only mentioned polyurethane glues by name, which I think only the "PL" glues are. "no more nails" is a silane based glue (silanes are like hydrocarbon alkanes, but with carbon substituted by silicon). I don't know if a PU glue can be made as flexible as a silane glue and vice versa. But the flexibility is very nice to make "push buttons" in wooden housings for electronics. I've used it several times. Drill a hole in a front panel board and make plug with a diameter a few millimeters less (4-6mm smaller diameter works well). Put the plug in the hole and fill the surrounding (2-3mm) gap with the silane glue. You now have a flexible wooden button to push (obviously you need to have your PCB with the actual button right behind it to do something useful). (With a CNC you can make the hole and plug in one go.)
Matthias’ test videos have educated me on so many things where I just used to go with conventional information that I learned at high school or tech college. I believe that much of what he has taught us should be going into rewriting or updating existing information. One of the biggest changes was the thin glue line that I was always taught was the strongest VS the thick glue line which he proved to be stronger. This has saved me from re-cutting slightly loose joints several times now.
@@williamzanghettijr5862 sorry mate I've been keeping off TH-cam because it costs me about 3 days ($2100) to make a video and the view count has been really poor lately, they warned me for making a humorous comment about the coronageddon in one video and basically shadow banned me from there. View count dropped from thousands to hundreds after that
Having compliance in an adhesive can be very useful, particularly from a durability perspective as that compliance can often take temporary excessive loading without deforming. Also a compliant boding material can be good at dampening vibrations and or the transmisability of vibrations through a medium by making the interface between materials poor kinetic conductors while still remaining strongly bonded.
One of the reasons we use a more flexible “weaker” glue for subfloor is that it reduces squeaking. If you were to use a thin liquid glue (like titebond), not only would it not have the needed flexibility, but it would also develop squeaks.
@@eastonvonschist2283 Well, what is wood working needs to be defined. You will not use construction glue for fine joinery - it is just thick. So is subflooring woodworking ? Or splcing boards on the outside deck ?
I’ve used PL Premium for all kinds of projects and just love the stuff. It’s strong, sticks to almost anything, fills gaps and great for outdoor use for pronged use in BC’s seasonal climate. Some drawbacks are: It’s thick, smelly and sticks to almost everything. I’m in the Philippines now and can’t find it anywhere. 😕
I made three custom wooden boxes for my grandchildren. Shape, design, wood selection, and joinery, was unique for each box. After two years of heavy use, the ONLY glue failure was from where I used construction adhesive. I repaired the box with a proven woodworking glue with success.
Thanks for the glue info, but an additional thanks for your Ukelele project from 9 years ago. Actually I am glad you did the full series not just the 30 minute start to finish video compilation from 3 years ago because I am currently building a Tenor Ukelele. Right now I am about to bend up the sides around a mold I made, but I want to see how both you and Pat did it on the chance you have or had better methods. I notice you made the fretboard too. I made one for a previous kit build that unlike the current scratch build had major components pre made. After hearing Jerry Rosa say he buys them pre made now because you just can't beat the CNC accuracy I plan to do the same. Why, because frets are something to fret about at least location wise if you like good intonation.
Interesting results! I can only imagine how informative a video of this type could be if you ever did a colab with Project Farm. Keep up the great work!
Nice bro! PL Max, the grey stuff, is the most expensive, the best in my opinion, and lovely to work with. Benefit is, dries totally solid, totally waterproof. if you build a large gate, or outdoor bench, use that stuff, just beware of squeeze out, its like sanding rock
Mattias, wonderful video. After watching this I was wondering to myself how much the amount of pressure and length of time a joint is clamped affects the overall strength of said joint. Can you include this test in a future video?
@@damienwills8658 I know, but it would have been great to see it side by side with these. I realize he's not in the US to it might be harder for him to get LN.
Looking at John Heisz' comment from last video about glues, he recommends "PL Premium" - indeed, the same glue out of the construction adhesives that you recommended. Seeing as it is about as strong as yellow glue, but takes longer to set, I would conclude that it's equally valid to use PL Premium (or 3x) construction adhesive or to use wood glue, with the difference being mainly in process and circumstance (i.e. speed required and surrounding temperature). In other words: I expect John Heisz to leave a comment that boils down to "I told you so" - and he'd be right!
no, he'd be defending his marginal and incorrect point of view as usual. construction adhesive is appropriate for construction. if you want to do woodwork, use a proper wood glue that has appropriate strength and working time characteristics.
I agree 100%. I've used PL for projects that are a bit slow to put together so I don't have to worry about the 'glue' setting too quickly. Those projects are still standing to this day.
I remember when I first started using these types of glues an old timer told me to mush the pieces together and then separate them before the final assembly of the parts. His instruction was that the glue would set faster if there was fresh air mixed into the joint before you seal it up. I'm not sure if that actually does anything but I will sometimes do this if i'm gluing something together without screws or nails because It might help.
Excellent tests!. I'd also love to see a video how you made the test stand, with the wooden gears, threaded rod, bearing and keepers, stepper motor, and motor controller. It's an excellent electromechanical example that could be applied to many projects. Thanks!
I've used Liquid Nails and some other band I don't recall. Both simply stopped adhering after a week or more. I didn't have to pry anything apart-it was like I hadn't used anything. I'll stick with wood glue and epoxy.
Hello Matthias, I have an idea for something you might want to investigate. I have an 8 inch bench grinder, with a fine brass brush on one side to clean rust or paint from parts. When I use wire wheel I feel a lot of air movement. It occurred to me it may be moving as much air as your hand made dust collectors. Not suggesting you use a wire wheel for dust collector, but interested how much air movement it produces. I enjoy your videos. Jim
It would be interesting to see a repeated stress test of construction glue vs wood glue. Basically high stress, but not maximum or to yield, and do that until failure. Might be a fiddly process finding the right stress, but you now have references
I love 8x. The texture of it actually helps when I need to use construction adhesive. For instance, I did my whole tile backsplash in my kitchen using that instead of morder. That stuff will both hold it in place because it's so thick and also be stronger than anything else out there. Unfortunately I haven't been able to find it since Covid
@@executive morder is just so messy for me. I tend to get it everywhere (especially trying to do tiles on walls). For a backsplash the 8x is both stronger and cleaner. I'm not sure I'd use it for floor tile though.
I was just wondering (and pardon me of this was already covered in an earlier test video), that this test demonstrates the 'shear' strength of the adhesive, not very much the 'tensile' strength. Seems like a lot of construction adhesives must, in their normal use, be used primarily in situations where tensile strength is more important than shear strength. But then, Matthias is apparently evaluating these construction adhesives for non-construction applications, such as general woodworking, but even then I wonder if shear strength is really the best test in this situation....?
Shear is the weakest axis for adhesives. The best example of this is cyanoacrylate You might be able to lift 200 lbs with a drop of it but take a little hammer and tap on the side and it fails.
Construction adhesives are meant to sit on the surface of semi-different materials to minimize movement and fastener squeaks. They fill voids and small gaps, they stay somewhat elastic, but they do NOT penetrate very far into the grain and are not very strong in tension. I’m surprised any of them work at all for the applications John Heisz uses them for but hey- if it works it works I guess. None of them inc PL Premium produce an acceptable glue line however - they can’t. If you squeeze them out to an invisible glue line there is nothing left to bond to the wood. I’ll stick with PVA glues for standard panel glue-ups and the like, and save my PL for carpentry tasks.
you should give sika pro a shot it primarily for concrete applications but i had an open tube when making a form for epoxy and when i went to take it apart the melamine was torn apart buy the very flexible thin strip of sealant.
To be fair great test, i have come across another test video, katz moses friend (sauman) sorry if wrong on his name. But he found a 0.5mm or 1mm gap in a glue joint reduces its strenghth by 50% Making the construction adhesive far superior in that context. Might be worth you looking at. Edit: Sorry it was a guy called Patrick Sullivan he has a three part series
It helps when someone doesn't approach different process with a negative bias... It's very useful, is one part, will bond to almost anything, even non porous surfaces.... Using a putty knife to spread the thicker glue, or the caulking tube to inject it in hard to reach holes, keeping a rag with either acetone or mineral spirits nearby and making sure to use nice tight fitting joinery helps a lot. DO NOT USE METHYL ALCOHOL :INHIBITS CURE FOREVER. Mechanical fasteners make the "slow" cure perfectly fine. Just as with industrial adhesives, fixture strength vs full cure is what matters. In a warm and tempered environment it's more than adequate. Just chisel or plane the dried excess...no mess. It's thick and doesn't ooze and drip everywhere. This type of adhesive is made for structural applications where wood glue would creep under load, high dynamic loads or be degraded by moisture. It sticks to itself and other previously glued substrates too... It's easier to deal with when you make sure to use fresh tubes, not the ones that spent 5 years+ on the shelf as a display in the hardware store, and the tube is warmed up to at least 20-25 Celsius. The grey or tan color matches or contrasts beautifully with the wood when you work it in the design.
All of those things are true, but I'd quibble with the negative bias assumption. He is not asking "what is construction adhesive good for", but "is construction adhesive a good drop-in replacement for standard wood glue". All his tests are centered around that premise, so his conclusions (a resounding "meh") make sense and, from my experience, are also accurate in that limited scope. That doesn't change the fact that construction adhesive will work for some of these projects, or is really good in other cases as you mentioned though.
I'd like to use PU-glue on my socks (with a plastic bag between the socks and my skin) to create a form, that I can fill with plaster to create a shoe last. First I wanted to use titebond2 as it is known as "poor man's fiberglass" in the foam-camper-community, but I think PU-glue might be the better option. The socks need to keep their form as rigid as possible. Which glue would you recommend?
I’d be interested to see how the Advantech Polyurethane gun-applied glue - as covered by ‘Awesome Framers’ channel - is superior. The PL Premium seems to be preferred by a lot of framers/finish guys I have encountered.
You want some ductility in a structure to handle earthquakes and to provide warning in the case of overload. Ductile failure modes are almost always safer than brittle failure modes.
Now I have to wonder what some "wonder glues" would hold up like. E6000/6800, goop, Loctite "Extreme Glue", and things like that. Craft adhesives I suppose?
To be fair... Construction adhesive is designed for application over long narrow edges and large flat surfaces, which develops the overall holding power required in those situations. There is no best or better glue, each is developed for a limited number of specific applications. 🕵️♂️
Construction Glue is supposed to have some flex to compensate for the yearly seasonal flex in houses. The winter to summer to winter to summer back and forth flex needs a buffer. Tile floors would crack at the seams of the subfloor if the subfloor was glued to the joists with a firm woodglue vs a flexable construction glue every time the house expanded and contracted with the temps
thats why there are specificially designed PU wood glues, they quite differ from general purpose PU construction adhesives - the real advantage of PU wood glues over PVAc wood glues is that they can be used at far lower temperatures
That's why houses are built of concrete. Except in third world countries of course.
Right again, Captain O! Or should I say Professor O, considering the schooling you just laid down.
@@girthbrooks39 Nice to see you add nothing to whatever you do... keep reaching for the stars
@@nomen.nescio other materials can be used for durable houses as well, if applied correctly.
the main difference between third and first world construction is the structural safety margin, precision, and care for qualities beyond just standing for now.
in rural Austria you still occasionally come across 15th century wooden houses, and on the other end of the scale the Paneum has a meter thick wooden walls made from layers of glued strips, then screwed together on site, and outside covered in thin metal tiles.
concrete, natural stone, bricks, metal, wood, glass, composites, can all have their places in building.
In my door making days, the shop I worked at we exclusively used PL Premium to glue our joinery because the shop wasn't 100% conditioned and was cold in winter. The slight flexibility allows doors to take some abuse and to also move with interior humidity changes or with seasonal changes outdoors. Our exterior main entry doors never fail.
I think the takeaway is that different glues have different uses by design. PL 400 is waterproof, works in cold weather (as do other Pl products) but it's made to flex with floor systems and bridge gaps that could cause squeaks, for ex. Especially during the construction process when moisture and temp have more effect on expansion rates, or when dissimilar materials are used - PL construction adhesive is the bees knees in this case. I think most construction adhesives (if not all) are designed to have at least some flex. I've used it for finer woodworking projects after seeing John do it too, but not often. That's what the yellow stuff is really for. It's obviously stronger and easier to work in a climatized environment.
One of my favourite TH-cam Engineers commenting on another of my favourite TH-cam Engineers' channel makes me happy. :)
Yeah, many applications in construction need adhesion to many surfaces, void/gap filling, good usage temperature range, reasonable initial grab/hold strength, at least some flexibility, and at a reasonable price per volume.
3M 5200 is the top end one for marine applications, not quite as strong as x8, but still one of the strongest, and easily most flexible at its strength (800% elongation to break). Soudal Fixall High Tack (European market only I think. MS polymer based), is great stuff for its price; MS Polymer ones are great to work with.
PVA is much easier to clean up when it's dried as well.
agreed
S
There's one major application I use construction adhesive for in a woodshop, and that's outdoor projects. Even waterproof PVA glue just doesn't hold up well in the elements in my experience, and if you're doing any cross-grain joints, they're prone to failure due to the exaggerated shrink/swell characteristics of wood outdoors and the brittle nature of the PVA glue. If I'm building Adirondack chairs or something, I'll go ahead and use construction adhesive instead of PVA glue in addition to mechanical fasteners. It also has the benefit of good gap filling, so you don't necessarily have to be as precise with your joints, which suits rougher outdoor projects that aren't works of art.
Indeed, I have had the glue on some mortise and tenon joints on an outdoor projects completely fail on me. I now mostly avoid large wood contact surfaces, cause that's where moisture accumulates and rot starts.
@@matthiaswandel Dear Matthias. Can I work for you and your channel please??
For outdoor project you have polyurethane wood glue - that is fully water resistant, it has D4 class (best PVA glues are D3)
I didn't know that much about "construction adhesives" until we had to "re-clad" the upper part of our house. It's cedar, and unless we were going to somehow rip off the entire front end, there was no way to make it look new again. (Built in 1958. REALLY weathered.)
So we bought dimenional cedar, ripped it all lengthwise, planed it and reclad all of the cedar. And, as the fellow whom I hired to do most of this said, "It's kind of like cladding your car". And that was because the front of the house has sort of "settled", shall we say? Anyway, that whole process was four or five years ago. We used many tubes of PL adhesive (I don't remember which one...400?) which was attached using stainless brads. It's still there. I suspect it'll still be there when they take me out on a stretcher. I do use it from time to time in woodworking, if it's a situation where the wood is exposed to the elements. Not the easiest stuff to work with, has to be held under pressure, takes 24 hours to cure, and whatever you do, don't get any on you. Or, have some paint thinner handy for that eventuality. Your test has confirmed what I already kinda knew. Thanks. Carry on!
I used the PL x 3 tubes when I remodeled my house and I loved it.
You need to warm up the glue to make it flow easy. I throw each one in hot water for a few minutes before using.
Also, spaying both surfaces with a water bottle, then clamping tight or screw it in and wait one day until set, will tear the wood apart before failing.
This is the most subtle beef in the history of the world.
I'm so in love with your homemade custom machines, and your fusion of wood technology with computer technology! I hope i can reach this level of awesome.
I can’t stop watching videos like this even though I don’t plan on doing any sort of DIY even close to this!
The Heisz-Wandel Glue War is better than the Bloods-Crips in LA in the late 80s… “There’s been another drive-by!” 🤣
You only mentioned polyurethane glues by name, which I think only the "PL" glues are. "no more nails" is a silane based glue (silanes are like hydrocarbon alkanes, but with carbon substituted by silicon). I don't know if a PU glue can be made as flexible as a silane glue and vice versa. But the flexibility is very nice to make "push buttons" in wooden housings for electronics. I've used it several times. Drill a hole in a front panel board and make plug with a diameter a few millimeters less (4-6mm smaller diameter works well). Put the plug in the hole and fill the surrounding (2-3mm) gap with the silane glue. You now have a flexible wooden button to push (obviously you need to have your PCB with the actual button right behind it to do something useful). (With a CNC you can make the hole and plug in one go.)
It's a good day when you upload on any of your channels Matthias - thanks!
Definitely poking at John here 🤣
He did say from the previous glue test that he would do a more diverse test for John Hiez proffered adhesive
Matthias’ test videos have educated me on so many things where I just used to go with conventional information that I learned at high school or tech college. I believe that much of what he has taught us should be going into rewriting or updating existing information. One of the biggest changes was the thin glue line that I was always taught was the strongest VS the thick glue line which he proved to be stronger. This has saved me from re-cutting slightly loose joints several times now.
Where have you been One Man ? I always enjoyed your videos. Cheers, William
@@williamzanghettijr5862 sorry mate I've been keeping off TH-cam because it costs me about 3 days ($2100) to make a video and the view count has been really poor lately, they warned me for making a humorous comment about the coronageddon in one video and basically shadow banned me from there. View count dropped from thousands to hundreds after that
Having compliance in an adhesive can be very useful, particularly from a durability perspective as that compliance can often take temporary excessive loading without deforming. Also a compliant boding material can be good at dampening vibrations and or the transmisability of vibrations through a medium by making the interface between materials poor kinetic conductors while still remaining strongly bonded.
These tests are great. I can see the flex glues being used in flooring applications (where nails aren't used [flex + nails = squeak])
Hence no more nails. Ba dum tss!
There's nailing techniques to prevent sqeaking in particular.
@@mcflapper7591 I'm listening!
@@furtim1 cross-nailing
Thanks for testing these construction adhesives. It looked like a fair test and your results were easy to understand. Great job!
One of the reasons we use a more flexible “weaker” glue for subfloor is that it reduces squeaking. If you were to use a thin liquid glue (like titebond), not only would it not have the needed flexibility, but it would also develop squeaks.
You are right but that is not what he was testing. He was testing the strength of the adhesives if you used it in place of wood glue for wood working.
@@eastonvonschist2283 Well, what is wood working needs to be defined. You will not use construction glue for fine joinery - it is just thick. So is subflooring woodworking ? Or splcing boards on the outside deck ?
Matthias, I've used Liquid Nails, and on some things I almost needed a liquid crowbar to get it apart. I'm pretty sure that Liquid Wrench won't help.😁
I suspect a solid steel crowbar would work better than a liquid one!
"Comes out of the tube almost like poop. It's just really thick and chunky." LOL.
I’ve used PL Premium for all kinds of projects and just love the stuff. It’s strong, sticks to almost anything, fills gaps and great for outdoor use for pronged use in BC’s seasonal climate. Some drawbacks are: It’s thick, smelly and sticks to almost everything. I’m in the Philippines now and can’t find it anywhere. 😕
That was a lot of work, and good editing there. Thanks for doing these.
Waiting for John 👀
John's experience is there on paper :D Thats really cool You made test with those kind of glues :)
Thank you. Just what I was looking for
I made three custom wooden boxes for my grandchildren. Shape, design, wood selection, and joinery, was unique for each box. After two years of heavy use, the ONLY glue failure was from where I used construction adhesive. I repaired the box with a proven woodworking glue with success.
Thanks for the glue info, but an additional thanks for your Ukelele project from 9 years ago.
Actually I am glad you did the full series not just the 30 minute start to finish video compilation from 3 years ago because I am currently building a Tenor Ukelele.
Right now I am about to bend up the sides around a mold I made, but I want to see how both you and Pat did it on the chance you have or had better methods.
I notice you made the fretboard too. I made one for a previous kit build that unlike the current scratch build had major components pre made. After hearing Jerry Rosa say he buys them pre made now because you just can't beat the CNC accuracy I plan to do the same. Why, because frets are something to fret about at least location wise if you like good intonation.
Interesting results! I can only imagine how informative a video of this type could be if you ever did a colab with Project Farm. Keep up the great work!
Would like to see how Sika products hold up. They're pretty much my go-to anymore. Really great stuff.
I bet Sika would be top notch.
Absolute best test ever
Great video and test results! Nice to see different glues on test bench! 👍😉
A higher thrust ratio caulk gun would make the PL 8x easier to apply. Perhaps application instructions should recommend a thrust ratio. Nice tests.
Nice bro! PL Max, the grey stuff, is the most expensive, the best in my opinion, and lovely to work with. Benefit is, dries totally solid, totally waterproof. if you build a large gate, or outdoor bench, use that stuff, just beware of squeeze out, its like sanding rock
Mattias, wonderful video. After watching this I was wondering to myself how much the amount of pressure and length of time a joint is clamped affects the overall strength of said joint. Can you include this test in a future video?
Of course, now I am curious about 2 part epoxy bin comparison. Like JB Weld for example.
I had to choose between Veritasium's latest video and yours. You won!
I like these videos - I think they're a good addition to your channel. And might bring in another demographic of viewers for you.
Very interesting series. I wish you could have included Liquid Nails in your test as that's very popular in the US. Thanks for your efforts Mathias!
he has included liquid nails in previous tests
@@damienwills8658 I know, but it would have been great to see it side by side with these. I realize he's not in the US to it might be harder for him to get LN.
Looking at John Heisz' comment from last video about glues, he recommends "PL Premium" - indeed, the same glue out of the construction adhesives that you recommended. Seeing as it is about as strong as yellow glue, but takes longer to set, I would conclude that it's equally valid to use PL Premium (or 3x) construction adhesive or to use wood glue, with the difference being mainly in process and circumstance (i.e. speed required and surrounding temperature). In other words: I expect John Heisz to leave a comment that boils down to "I told you so" - and he'd be right!
no, he'd be defending his marginal and incorrect point of view as usual. construction adhesive is appropriate for construction. if you want to do woodwork, use a proper wood glue that has appropriate strength and working time characteristics.
I agree 100%. I've used PL for projects that are a bit slow to put together so I don't have to worry about the 'glue' setting too quickly. Those projects are still standing to this day.
@@ScottPankhurst My experience falls in line with John's. Sorry but you are not correct.
@@ScottPankhurst I'd never use wood glue for structural purposes: shelving, chairs, surfaces you might step on, workbench legs etc
@@rolfbjorn9937 Hm, most of these should be made to stand to the weight without any glue
Another piece of quality work, Matt. Thanks!
I remember when I first started using these types of glues an old timer told me to mush the pieces together and then separate them before the final assembly of the parts. His instruction was that the glue would set faster if there was fresh air mixed into the joint before you seal it up. I'm not sure if that actually does anything but I will sometimes do this if i'm gluing something together without screws or nails because It might help.
Urethane adhesive works by sucking moisture from the air so yeah it can make it faster
It is written as a method of application on some of those tubes
Excellent tests!. I'd also love to see a video how you made the test stand, with the wooden gears, threaded rod, bearing and keepers, stepper motor, and motor controller. It's an excellent electromechanical example that could be applied to many projects. Thanks!
if you would like to see that video, I recommend you watch it.
He already made a video about this indeed, you can check it out.
@@matthiaswandel Sorry about that. I usually view all your videos and must of missed that one. Thanks again!
Also, Matthias has a great summary on his website. YT doesn't like external links, but it's shown on his about page then search for "wood_strength"
Have you tried some Heisz Ketchup? Maybe that would work.
Happy now John?
You could also test hide glue. Leave the construction adhesive for joining concrete to non concrete stuff
The subfloor glue is meant to stay soft to eliminate squeaks. Thank you for testing these - your test rig is most excellent!
I've used Liquid Nails and some other band I don't recall. Both simply stopped adhering after a week or more. I didn't have to pry anything apart-it was like I hadn't used anything.
I'll stick with wood glue and epoxy.
Hello Matthias, I have an idea for something you might want to investigate. I have an 8 inch bench grinder, with a fine brass brush on one side to clean rust or paint from parts. When I use wire wheel I feel a lot of air movement. It occurred to me it may be moving as much air as your hand made dust collectors. Not suggesting you use a wire wheel for dust collector, but interested how much air movement it produces.
I enjoy your videos. Jim
PL Premium has been my go to construction adhesive for years… just don’t get it on yourself.
It would be interesting to know if you could make flexible wood projects similar to the 'flexible lego' using the more flexible glues.
Loving these data points!
all this info is useful, giving you an idea of how to use it and when and where its application is beneficial
Very nice conclusion to the topic.
Great follow up and matches my experience exactly.
It would be interesting to see a repeated stress test of construction glue vs wood glue. Basically high stress, but not maximum or to yield, and do that until failure. Might be a fiddly process finding the right stress, but you now have references
That was very interesting Matthias, thank you.
Soudal T Rex range cannot be beaten, incredible stuff
(All though Crystal is a bit odd to use)
I love 8x. The texture of it actually helps when I need to use construction adhesive. For instance, I did my whole tile backsplash in my kitchen using that instead of morder. That stuff will both hold it in place because it's so thick and also be stronger than anything else out there.
Unfortunately I haven't been able to find it since Covid
yeah morder isn't a very good adhesive
@@executive morder is just so messy for me. I tend to get it everywhere (especially trying to do tiles on walls). For a backsplash the 8x is both stronger and cleaner. I'm not sure I'd use it for floor tile though.
@@maxamos7 I use mortar for tile
@@executive ok...
@@maxamos7 I didn't see any morder at the store
Very nice comparison. Thank you.
I was just wondering (and pardon me of this was already covered in an earlier test video), that this test demonstrates the 'shear' strength of the adhesive, not very much the 'tensile' strength. Seems like a lot of construction adhesives must, in their normal use, be used primarily in situations where tensile strength is more important than shear strength. But then, Matthias is apparently evaluating these construction adhesives for non-construction applications, such as general woodworking, but even then I wonder if shear strength is really the best test in this situation....?
yes, in normal use. I focus on woodworking use.
Shear is the weakest axis for adhesives. The best example of this is cyanoacrylate You might be able to lift 200 lbs with a drop of it but take a little hammer and tap on the side and it fails.
Nice video this one, really presented the results in a digestible way.
tru fax!
(all joking aside, it's these real life tests that matter - and your overall knowledge of the subject bringing it into context that matter)
Construction adhesives are meant to sit on the surface of semi-different materials to minimize movement and fastener squeaks. They fill voids and small gaps, they stay somewhat elastic, but they do NOT penetrate very far into the grain and are not very strong in tension. I’m surprised any of them work at all for the applications John Heisz uses them for but hey- if it works it works I guess. None of them inc PL Premium produce an acceptable glue line however - they can’t. If you squeeze them out to an invisible glue line there is nothing left to bond to the wood. I’ll stick with PVA glues for standard panel glue-ups and the like, and save my PL for carpentry tasks.
In a few years the construction adhesive goes hard as a rock and tends to pop itself loose if the grain is at right angles in the joint
you should give sika pro a shot it primarily for concrete applications but i had an open tube when making a form for epoxy and when i went to take it apart the melamine was torn apart buy the very flexible thin strip of sealant.
Would the gorilla or the no more nails be good for gluing a table top on, would it allow for enough expansion?
Wonder if LePage is just Canadian branded Loctite. In the US it's Loctite PL fast grab.
Le Page and Loctite were different companies, but now they are both Henkel, so products are probably shared
I did the joint on a plywood boat using pl premium like 15 years ago and its still in one piece
The irony that he used a nail to close the "No more nails" is not lost on me xD.
To be fair great test, i have come across another test video, katz moses friend (sauman) sorry if wrong on his name.
But he found a 0.5mm or 1mm gap in a glue joint reduces its strenghth by 50%
Making the construction adhesive far superior in that context. Might be worth you looking at.
Edit:
Sorry it was a guy called Patrick Sullivan he has a three part series
You should test the new Titebond construction adhesive.
I would be interessting how much those different wood glues an constructive adhesive costs, and how long can I keep an bottle I have starte to use.
In Canada they are in 9-16 CAD dollar range per standard tube in the big-box store
Once again great video! Great process!
I know this is kind of a stupid question, but didn’t super glue perform really well last time. Why isn’t it used as an actual wood glue more often?
I think that it´s too brittle and can´t fill any gaps. If the joint is thight, then it might work. Besides that I don´t trust ca glue over time.
Superglue is great in tension, lousy in shear. Also doesn't like water.
It helps when someone doesn't approach different process with a negative bias... It's very useful, is one part, will bond to almost anything, even non porous surfaces.... Using a putty knife to spread the thicker glue, or the caulking tube to inject it in hard to reach holes, keeping a rag with either acetone or mineral spirits nearby and making sure to use nice tight fitting joinery helps a lot. DO NOT USE METHYL ALCOHOL :INHIBITS CURE FOREVER. Mechanical fasteners make the "slow" cure perfectly fine. Just as with industrial adhesives, fixture strength vs full cure is what matters. In a warm and tempered environment it's more than adequate. Just chisel or plane the dried excess...no mess. It's thick and doesn't ooze and drip everywhere.
This type of adhesive is made for structural applications where wood glue would creep under load, high dynamic loads or be degraded by moisture. It sticks to itself and other previously glued substrates too... It's easier to deal with when you make sure to use fresh tubes, not the ones that spent 5 years+ on the shelf as a display in the hardware store, and the tube is warmed up to at least 20-25 Celsius. The grey or tan color matches or contrasts beautifully with the wood when you work it in the design.
All of those things are true, but I'd quibble with the negative bias assumption. He is not asking "what is construction adhesive good for", but "is construction adhesive a good drop-in replacement for standard wood glue". All his tests are centered around that premise, so his conclusions (a resounding "meh") make sense and, from my experience, are also accurate in that limited scope. That doesn't change the fact that construction adhesive will work for some of these projects, or is really good in other cases as you mentioned though.
Excellent appreciate the video
John Heisz may or may not be upset with these results.
I think it agrees with what he says.
I wonder if any of the flexible glues would help deal with moisture cycling to allow wider cross grain glueups to survive.
Great information. Thanks for the content! Much appreciated!
awesome tests. very satisfying.
I'm surprised that you didn't use one of the Liquid Nails brand adhesives.
There is also PL9000 that is among the group
I lost it at the poop analogy lol
hola matias
has probado hacer un test de fuerza del adhesivo PVA humectando la madera antes de aplicar el adhesivo?
Apesar de não entender inglês foi um belo teste abraço aqui do Brasil,são Paulo
I'd like to use PU-glue on my socks (with a plastic bag between the socks and my skin) to create a form, that I can fill with plaster to create a shoe last. First I wanted to use titebond2 as it is known as "poor man's fiberglass" in the foam-camper-community, but I think PU-glue might be the better option.
The socks need to keep their form as rigid as possible. Which glue would you recommend?
Well done sir !
thanks!
I’d be interested to see how the Advantech Polyurethane gun-applied glue - as covered by ‘Awesome Framers’ channel - is superior.
The PL Premium seems to be preferred by a lot of framers/finish guys I have encountered.
Great job. I definitely learned somthing.
Thanks for sharing have a blessed day
You want some ductility in a structure to handle earthquakes and to provide warning in the case of overload. Ductile failure modes are almost always safer than brittle failure modes.
I’d be interested in see what 3m 5200 marine adhesive would test at. I’ve used before it’s strong stuff!
3M Marine adhesive is the only sealer I trust to be completely watertight. It ain't cheap but it always works.
Polysulphide is as much a sealant as it is a glue.
incredibly strong and resilient. It's a good choice if you're anticipating shock loads.
Well there went all my hopes and dreams of glueing my neighbors doors shut
Now I have to wonder what some "wonder glues" would hold up like. E6000/6800, goop, Loctite "Extreme Glue", and things like that. Craft adhesives I suppose?
Construction adhesive vs other materials? Metals, ceramics or plastics perhaps?
To be fair... Construction adhesive is designed for application over long narrow edges and large flat surfaces, which develops the overall holding power required in those situations. There is no best or better glue, each is developed for a limited number of specific applications. 🕵️♂️
All the testing was with LePage construction adhesive, what about Loctite, Liquid Nails or 3M and DAP?
looking for tests on using construction adhesive on endgrain.... since the viscosity is higher
I was surprised home hardware didn't have PL premium in stock. Usually is the trades goto, can't tell you how many tubes of that I'll seen empty.
Supply chain issues. I work at a hardware store, and we can't get any right now.