Cedar Lumber is NOT Rot Resistant?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- It is commonly believed cedar lumber is rot resistant. In a lot of cases it is, but not always. Not all cedar is the same. In this video I salvage logs from an incense cedar tree that came down a few years ago in a snowstorm.  We find out if this cedar has become rotten in just a few years or if it was rot resistant and stayed solid. If the logs are solid we will put them on my Woodmizer LT15 sawmill in an upcoming video and see if we can get some good rot resistant lumber out of them. In this small scale logging operation I am using a Stihl MS 462 chainsaw.  The tractor is a Massey Ferguson MF 30 MF 34 with a Farmi 501 tractor winch. 
I like it. Sure beats the rich youtubers in Pennsylvania cutting and sawing. (Make believe with deep pockets). :)
I would imagine it to be the gland seals on the cylinder rods, just my guess though.
Thanks, Mr. Wilson.
"Sometimes my tongue gets tangled around my eye teeth, and I can't see what I'm saying . . . " 🤣
Yep, I know how it is.
Cedar comes from the Italian which for a matter of simplicity means citrus, any wood hard or soft with a bitter citrus aroma caj be defined as a cedar.
This isn’t telling you what to do, but I was reminded of this watching you buck that thing hanging under tension: I saw a video a while back, I think Gordy’s?, where they were showing that if you pull the saw in and out of the cut a bunch of times it will open up the kerf and then when it drops and tries to punch your bar, the kerf is already wide enough that it won’t. It was new to me and I’ve seen a -lot- of sawing, looked pretty damn slick. I think it was a NorCal redwood crew? Anyway, great content.
Thai Teak, and Tasmanian Huon Pine are the greatest when it comes to no rot. Huon pines have been found in gullies with other logs sitting on top. The Huon Pines left unmarked, while the others are eaten away.
Wow dude, with all that smoke your tractor is pumpin, which tuner do you have on it? 😉
White Cedar
Its special oils make it resistant to rot and insects, even in harsh outdoor conditions of moisture and low temperatures. It is considered one of the most decay resistant trees in North America.
White cedar is another cypress like the red cedar on the west coast. We don’t have it out here but I have heard it’s good stuff.
Yup also called arborvitae
Cool video
Thank you Wheelloader. I always liked that name.
Well if it’s your land why let the forest department of fish and game build your bridge to get the back side
The last couple of videos you have educated me on several species I know very little about. I cut mostly maple, birch, and cherry.I really like your content because you seem to focus on felling, skidding, and bucking to make firewood. Allot of the channels seen to be arborist limbing and topping witch this old guy ain’t NEVER DOING! I would enjoy seeing our hearing your thoughts and tactics about the various felling techniques. You have a great channel. Thank for all the content.
Most of the time I try not to be in the firewood business but it just worked out for me to be this summer. Most of my focus is on managing my forest land and doing whatever makes sense in current market conditions to utilize the wood. I have had a few requests to talk about the felling technique I use. I will probably be doing one of those soon. Thank you for the comment.
It would be interesting to hear you talk more about owning land with timber on it. What do you look for......kind of timber, size of acreage and topography, location, etc? How much land
costs is not something that can be addressed specifically.......understandably. Many factors would impact the price. That said,😀, what are some ballpark figures per acre? What size property is desirable? What kind of timber is preferable? Not trying to hold you to any figures. I am 80 and not going to be in the market. I do like to hear you talk common sense and that is all I am looking for....just a conversation on the subject. Thank you in advance.
That sounds good to me too. I'm middle 70's now, did lots of tree work when I as in my very early 20's with old beat up Homelite's and Mac's.
Would really like to learn a bit about the size of your properties who do you buy from, or lease?? What weird or necessary restrictions you face?
Are they Old logging grounds with roads, are they overgrown and you tidy them up a bit?? Sooo many Questions.
Here in BC Canada, any acreage reasonably close to any fair size town is really expensive, have to go up Coast or on some places on Vancouver Island to find anything close to afforadable. Anyways, hope you see this and maybe do some talk about it while you show us your "Lumberjacking" HAHAHA...🙂
In my experience, I don’t do ground contact with either redwood or cedar. I have found that for fencing, cedar lasts longer, you can get better quality cedar boards and posts than redwood at the big box home improvement stores. Seriously, the so-called “redwood” sold is mostly sapwood at those stores.
I used to buy from a quality redwood lumber yard in northwestern Los Angeles, but that was over thirty five years ago.
A learning experience I had with my most recent fence (cedar posts and pickets) was rail rot in a short period of time. So cedar will definitely decay in certain conditions. (I had planned to stain the wood - oil with a purple tint), but my brother in law convinced me to paint the fence instead. Well, the fence got wet, stayed wet due to the paint film holding the moisture close.
Meanwhile another identical fence is still in perfect condition. It gets as much moisture as the other, but it’s essentially bare (I do oil it periodically to replace the natural oils that the sun drives out. But it doesn’t stay wet 24/7.
You catching the can always makes me smile. Thank you.
It’s the little things in life.
Cool people doing cool things!!! I actually chuckled a bit.
I Enjoy your videos. Question: watching you drop a suspended portion of the log - you cut down from the top; then up, from the bottom, with an offset of at least a saw kerf. I imagine this would keep the log from binding your saw as it collapses; I learned something. Can you do a video on techniques of managing cuts with a chain saw? Especially an example of how to manage a tree fallen over with portions still attached to the stump, I worry about the stored energy.
Taking the bark off any tree will give you the best rot resistance. This is why you never see bark on a properly made log cabin.
I get your points on how rot resistant cedar may or may not be, and is it worth the extra cost for a given project....
I'm pretty sure however, from experience with oak, where one log fell over, or was simply left behind by lazy people, or a logger who didn't have use for the brushier smaller, harder to handle firewood, that one in the dirt, might be mostly solid, and one hung in the air much more rotten. I'm pretty sure that not only the health of the tree, but the moisture content, is at play.
In the east the majority of trees are deciduous, and lose their leaves. C 18:51 18:51 utting them in the winter, will result in them containing much less moisture! Firewood and lumber dries more quickly then. So my feeling has always been that the logs that rotted before getting cut, vs the ones that seem to last forever, is more about how much moisture they contain when they fall, AND how fast they can dry. If the bark falls off, it seems to last longer than if not.
So I am thinking that the trees you cut in this video, if even just milled the slabs off, and sat in the same environment, wouldn't be nearly as rotted. And I suspect that there is a microbiology component as well. I wonder if, the same log was milled, and dried properly, then exposed to the same basic conditions, what would happen?
As in would the wood be more sterile after dried, and more rot resistant than if left unprocessed?
Just thoughts running around in my head.....
Life is full of more variables than most of us are ever aware of.
I'll bet you learned that exhaust pipe juggling act stunt in Catch-a-Can, Alaska.
we have north coast red cedar in Australia, it was like gold in value. not sure about the rot resistance but termites don't touch it and it smells nice when you cut it.
THat cedar was probably having trouble for a while while it was still upright..
You're not leaving me much room for comments.
If that means I left Rick speechless, that’s quite an accomplishment. 😁
Port Orford cedar has superior rot resistance over western red and incense.
What year is your tractor? I'm in the market for my first. EVERYONE says I need a 4x so I won't get stuck. I'll need it for plowing but a set of chains would work well on yours. This was/is your granpa's, right? I'm on the MA/CT border.
This tractor is early to mid 1970s. Probably 73 or 74. It was my grandpa’s then it was my dad‘s. I don’t run chains on mine because the chains would chew up the soil on the surface of my roads. Then when they get a little bit wet I would really have a muddy traction problem. Most of the time I get plenty of traction as it is. For plowing chains would probably help. A lot of people tell me tractors from that area are very tough and reliable. I have found that to be the case with this one.
"little bitta crooked" is aok in my book buddy
Do you west coasters have locust of any flavor out there?
Eastern white cedar is native to North America.
Eastern red cedar sure is, at least the red part is.
not your valve its your cylinders seals
We used to use cedar, but pressure treat is way more rot resistant
I really enjoy your ingenuity for getting things done. Stay safe in the woods, it appears you are alone by yourself.
Yep definitely put a lot of focus on being safe. Thank you for the comment.
He has a camera man
Good video Wilson! A few years ago a forester told me the heartwood is where the trees 'waste products' go. I don't know if that is true or not, just thought it interesting...perhaps explains why the heartwood is more rot resistant 🤔
The trees do put chemicals into the heartwood but I don’t know if they are waste products or not. I might have to look that up.
Only heartwood will resist damage from bugs and fungus. That tree is too small to get really good stuff. Years ago, the cedar trees harvested were ten times that thickness. They scrapped the sapwood for making pencils.
Yep but it’s what we have these days.
Rot resistant means it will break down slower it Doesn't mean rot proof
Yes exactly.
Think that downed cedar would've lasted longer if it hadn't had the bark on?
👍🍻
Yes. Undoubtedly.
Yes I think they both would have since the bark holds in moisture. But they also might have had big cracks in them because it allowed them to dry out more.
A valid point. I defer to the Gentleman from Southern Oregon.@@WilsonForestLands
I’ve learned a lot from this video ! Don’t know if I’ll use the difference of cedar anytime other than at playing Trivial Pursuit . Thank you for the edifying video !
Wow Mr. Wilson, that was a very informative video. Thanks. I have some downed cedar trees & was wondering if they're usable. This helps my decision-making immensely...
Good to know somebody is getting some use out of these videos. Thanks for the comment.
👌👌👍👍 THANK YOU for explaining the difference between cedars and junipers. I haven't seen anyone else on youtube bother to explain that. Another of my pet peeves is when people on youtube call any flying, stinging insect a "bee", when in fact it was probably a wasp or hornet. There IS a difference. Must be a yankee thing.
I have a video where I talk about people calling them all bees. Instead of wasps hornets etc. I have been known to annoyingly correct people on that. Thank you for the comment.
Thanks for taking the time to create your videos.
I find them informative and very entertaining.
Keep creating, I believe your TH-cam channel will be successful.
PS, I’m a new subscriber. 👍
How often do you bind up the saw between cuts?
I don’t get my saw stuck very often. With experience you can learn to read what the wood is going to do much of the time. I am more likely to get it stuck when I am fooling around with cameras and have too many things going on at the same time.
I'm no expert, but where I live, in the dirt that I have here, pressure treated posts and lumber last about 8 years. Easter Red Cedar 12+ years and counting.
I don’t have experience with Eastern red cedar since I am on the west coast but from what I hear it lasts a very long time.
Ive seen cedar rot out pretty quick too 🤷♂️
I live in SC, we have eastern red cedar but also a similar tree called juniper, there is a difference between the two. Juniper is prized for making strip boats.
We also have a type of juniper and drier parts of the west coast called Western Juniper. There are many varieties of juniper, eastern red cedar is just one of them. I just looked up juniper strip boats. Those are beautiful.
@@WilsonForestLands I think maybe more stable and less knots than red cedar. They look like a lot of labor!
Well done, sir. (And especially the "pile it up in the corner for wildlife habitat"; warms this old heart.)
Also, love the fact you used the old Geology professors' phrase: "Leaverite" -- as in it's not quality, so "leaver right" there...
Cheers from a wildlife habitat advocate from Linn County.
I thought you might like the wildlife habitat part. And it’s not everyone who appreciates geology humor.
And I'm certainly not "everyone..." 😁@@WilsonForestLands
I built a deck out of redwood. Lasted 25 years. Wasn't rotten but where it was in shade carpenter ants loved the wet spongy soft wood.
Eastern red cedar is very rot resistant. Here in NC nothing much will attack it except for ants. There are logs lying on/in the ground near my house that are totally sound after 15 years.
How old is that tree?
I didn’t count the rings but I would guess 100 to 150 years old.
One more thing on your cedar if you you got a wood stove ore even split it and sell it , and yes the different types of cedar your correct I do believe Canada and part s Alaska grow the yellow cedar and I cut up rotten cedar and a lot of time s they have a rotten heart
I love your videos, I've learned alot from them. I wished you showed us how you got your saw out of that tree when it got pinched in it. I would be curious if you rescue style is the same as mine.
Impressive taxonomy! 👍🏼👍🏼
Calla-WHAT'D-YOU SAY cedar? Keep using those five-dollar words and you'll be due for your 5000-word tune-up in no time! New subby here. Love your videos and sense of humor, BTW.
Calocedrus decurrens is the Latin or scientific name
I enjoy your videos very much. just an old guy wishing I could still smell the wood and the hot exhaust of the saw............
I wish I could somehow get the smells to come through on video, it’s a big part of the experience. Thank you for the comment.
Dang shame couldn’t get more wood outta that cedar!
I find myself wanting to scream "Wilson!" like Tom Hanks in Castaway... just for fun... I'm easily entertained. So, I've been wondering, if a downed tree is supported above the ground like that, does it have tension in it when it's milled?
I have had a few people over the years call out to me as though I was a soccer ball. 😁 It’s a good question you bring up about tension. That is something I forgot to mention in the video that I am concerned might be a problem. There was another cedar I took out a year ago that was suspended the same way and it had only been down for less than a year. It did have tension in it but only in a few spots. There were a few cuts that sprung off the log and even jumped into the air a little bit when they were cut off. But surprisingly most of the lumber came out straight. It will definitely be something I will be looking out for while milling it.
We appreciate your sense of adventure, leaving it there wouldn’t make as interesting a video! Makes a fella wonder- “ Rotten to the core”, think their talking trees or apples? “ How do you like them apples” ( wrote that just cause I like saying it!) Thanks for the Video!🇺🇸🇺🇸
They could be talking about apples, or maybe politicians. I decided the same, wouldn’t make as good a video if I decided to leave it. I think I actually used “how do you like them apples” in one of my videos quite a while back.
That was a pretty good size cedar . Mostly around here the ants eat it up before it rots out. I’m glad I showed up for class today
I got to learn a thing or two. Good video
It was a good size one but they get a lot bigger than that. I have never seen ants in this type but this type is a very different type than the type you have.
Cedar used to be used in closets because it supposedly repelled moths.
Now, red cedar is considered invasive in a lot of areas where it is native becausethe fires and buffalo herds that once kept them under control are no longer present, allowing them to spread quickly.
I have sometimes wondered if our incense cedar works to repel moths the way red cedar does.
The 3 point arm's holding the wench ? How tight do you keep those ? I noticed the wench moving a little as you drove, Is that by design ? I guess what I am asking is how tight should the 3 point arms be for the wench and why ?
On this old rickety tractor, tight doesn’t really apply any more. My dad and grandpa put this winch on the tractor over 30 years ago and most of the adjustable parts have seized up by then. The pins and bushings are worn so there is slop there. There are a couple cross chains that stabilize it from side to side. They have to be kept a little loose or they get too tight when the winch is lowered all the way. That’s where a lot of the movement comes from.Ii’m not sure how tight everything is supposed to be but the way it is matches the rest of the tractor.
@@WilsonForestLands thank you for the great answer. I may have access to one, and was just wondering! Thanks
Rot resistant not rot proof
The standing ones hold up much better for sure.
They do and it helped that this one was elevated off the ground.
Redwood isn't rot resistant, eithrr. Locust does pretty well?
The old growth redwood is rot resistant. The redwood for sale now is second and third growth which often has a lot of sapwood in it. It’s not like the old stuff.
Thanks for the cedar lesson today. Never know what we may learn today..😁👍
Thanks for watching and I always appreciate your comments.
Thanks for the cedar lesson and do you ever come across any hemlock over there thanks other great video
There isn’t any hemlock here. It’s too hot and dry for them. But up in the higher elevations over 5000 feet there is western hemlock and then mountain hemlock in the really high mountains. There is also western hemlock over at the coast where it is cooler and wetter. I have a few over on my coast property but none here.
I cut a sell alot of eastern red but won't cut stands that have more than a 1/4 inch of sap wood for fence post. Some places here in Oklahoma they grow really slow so very little sap wood. The place I am cutting now I cut the post off of for my place 30 years ago they are still solid but what sap wood they had when cut is gone
I spent a couple years out in Oklahoma. They look like they would be slow growing, where I was they didn’t get very tall. Since they are a juniper they are very different than what we call cedar out here. some of the wood I have seen from them is very beautiful too.
@@WilsonForestLands here they grow tall and straight like a pine. But they have to reach sunlight threw the oak trees
You have really good content I enjoy watching all of your videos
Thank you. I’m glad you are enjoying.
Rot resistant and rot proof are two different things.
Yes, rot resistant wood is what we are after here. I don’t think we have rot proof wood around here.
Very cool.. have a nice day my friend
Thank you
Well, I like the smell of cedar, and if dry, it burns good. If I remember right, cedar "pops" when it burns. Farmers used to use small white cedar as fence posts. (Ontario white cedar). Thanks for the video.
Different cedars have a much different smell from each other. But I like the smell of every one of them that I have smelled. This kind of cedar, incense cedar does pop when it burns. I am not familiar with Ontario white cedar, it’s far out of my range.
@@WilsonForestLandsi went to a boat building school on the north coast of lake huron and I do agree cedar has not the best rot resistance usually but some of the cedar they are cutting near Cedarville, MI is easily 500-600 years old for some of these trees they are cutting all while the tree is no bigger than 2 feet in diameter. And ive seen growth rings less than a mm a year and ive made quite a few small items out of branches that the electrical companies leave laying around and its a dream to work with unlike any other cedar with hand tools. And its believed some trees are up to 1,500 years old
Incenses cedar is used primarily for interior aplications....i've seen redwood sill plates over 100 years old that were still solid, in fact, i have a coffee table made out of some of the boards.
The old Redwood will last a very long time. But what a lot of people don’t realize is a lot of the redwood being cut now is smaller second and third growth and a lot of it is sapwood. The sapwood doesn’t last like the old growth heartwood did.
You are 100% correct. I've torn down/remodeled a lot of pre 1950 structures and the quality of wood is 1000 times better then the highest quality lumber we produce today. I've got a bone yard of damn near clear vertical grain fir that would cost a fortune today and wouldn't be near the quality of the old 'standard' lumber. Occasionally I'll run across a random old growth board in todays lumber , I set it aside and add it to my pile. @@WilsonForestLands
Learn from your video thank you for sharing your time
Thank you for the encouragement.
Nothing ventured , nothing gained .
Well said.
the debarking was easy tho.
Yeah it comes off easy on those long dead ones. Good to have it off but some of the pieces were getting in the way in the process.
Learned quite a bit about "cedar" today - thanks!
👍
Love the education you give us on videos!! Stay Hydrated and Have a Safe Day
Thank you David
Yes the sapwood the part that people strip away and do not use for anything was rotten but the heart wood the part that people use was not rotten.
In a lot of cases knowledgeable people strip the sapwood away, but a lot of times people don’t. I have seen a lot of cedar in the stores that have a lot of sapwood. It’s especially common with redwood now that Redwood mills are cutting small redwood logs. I have seen people build things with these types of materials and they have problems with them not lasting long. People do use sapwood. Maybe they shouldn’t, but they do.
That is for outdoor use. A lot of people prefer incense cedar with sapwood for indoor use. The contrast between the white sapwood and the dark heartwood is one of the things people like about incense cedar.
Love your videos as usual, I am curious what size of saw and what size of bar do you use? Thanks
That one is a 462 with a 32 inch bar. I used to use a 24 inch a lot of the time but since the light bars come out I just find myself always going to the 32.
Great!! 👍 I’m on a logging crew now and we use all 500i’s and 661’s but man they are expensive, I’m going self employed in 4 months into lawn care and firewood looking for a good saw at a decent price. Thanks for the response. I always enjoy your videos, please keep it simple and down to earth like you do, seems like most TH-camrs get to 40-50k subs and they go more commercialized and there’s no need for us day to day Jim’s trying to get good advice.
I agree with you on the heart wood. Oh thanks for letting me drive your tractor for a few minutes
I actually thought about you when I was getting the on the tractor part of the video. I thought you would probably appreciate that.
@@WilsonForestLands thanks. I enjoyed it. Which I really enjoy all your videos and jokes
Calocedrus deccurens
Precisely 👍
I think the rot resistant cedar is eastern red cedar.
I don’t see eastern red cedar lumber very often on the West Coast since it doesn’t grow here. Out here western red cedar is usually the go to cedar for rot resistance. Very different trees that aren’t even in the same genius but they have similar names and they are both rot resistant.
As a New subscriber, I just learned about this great mans education he is teaching we of the city. How to Preserve the lands that our God gave us in the United States. No one enjoys a Forest Fire like the one in California now today at 400,000 acres of forest lost because of mankind! For careless people neither do the animals. Lord only knows how many animals were burned to death because of one man, and all the Homes that were destroyed in the Fire, even Bambi has lost his home.
Imaginary flying sky man had nuttin’ to do with it. . . .