NTSB Presentation: East Palestine Hearing - Investigator in Charge Investigation Summary

June 22, 2023: Video presentation by
NTSB Investigator in Charge Ruben Payan on the East Palestine, Ohio, derailment.

[@DougGrinbergs]

Imagine if we had defect detector readings along the way

[@kalindastrome2182]

Very excited to read the full report. A lot going on!

[@eustatic3832]

2:22 security cams shows derailment fire early on

[@SIGINT007]

Miles and miles of a defect yet no NS defect detector caught this prior to failure?

[@chocolatefrenzieya]

AND a civilian's report, apparently.

[@inewyorkcentralrr]

They did get notified, but the way that HBD defectors work it was dismissed.
They work on limits and ranges. For example, if a temperature is between A and B, its disregarded, but logged as a bad order to be inspected later at a shop. If its between B and C its a speed restriction to 30 MPH, to limit high speed to the worn parts to attempt to bring it to the next yard. If its C+ then its an immediate stoppage for a visible inspection by the crew or for the car to be dropped off where it is for it to be brought to the nearest yard at a later time.
A HUGE concern now is whether the detectors were set too high, so a temperature in the range of B to C, mightve been recorded as a temperature between A and B, which threw no warnings.

[@beenaplumber8379]

@@inewyorkcentralrr Do trains still have a caboose? Was there a long, straight section of track where the person in a caboose could have seen a bright fire somewhere up the train? Isn't that what the caboose is for? (I'm obviously clueless about modern freight trains, so I'm asking.)

[@inewyorkcentralrr]

@@beenaplumber8379 trains no longer have a caboose after they were phased out, as well as the brakeman position, starting in the mid 90s. Straight track wouldn’t have helped in this case, as they were closer to the head end of the train, not the tail end. Caboose line of sight worked best on curves. Not only that, but the flame size and intensity varied so it wouldn’t have mattered even if the conductor (second crew position currently) looked back from the engine as it might have died out some, and being on the wrong side of the consist entirely.

[@beenaplumber8379]

@@inewyorkcentralrr Ok, thanks much for the explanation. I learned nearly all I know about freight trains as a young kid when my dad worked for Burlington Northern in the early 70s, so all I really learned was the kid-level stuff.

[@railfandepotproductions]

Where can I find footage of the lead locomotives and 32n before and after the derailment

[@OneAdam12Adam]

Is this an example of how private corporations are supposed to do better than government? Obviously not. Greed at a time of record profits. Disgusting.

[@railfandepotproductions]

Precision scheduled railroading sucks

[@324bear]

Do the defect detectors have memories? Can NTSB assure the detector logs haven't been tampered with?

[@inewyorkcentralrr]

they do, for this exact reason.

[@2kanchoo]

There are more advanced detectors out there that could have picked that bearing up sooner, or they could have been linked so two in a row would pick up a steady increase in temperature rise at the same location in the train and message the crew, instead of them making it to the third one and it being too late. That costs money though. Railways will only spend the absolute minimum to keep trains running unless forced by the government to do the right thing. PRS + publicly traded = all that matters is money. money over maintenance, money over safety, money over employees, money over the public. All that matters is greed above all else, at all times. Even look how this has been majorly out of the news. The 3 main ns stake holders are the same 3 as the biggest news outlets. What a strange coincidence...

[@hochhaul]

BlackRock, Vanguard, and State Street, correct? The same ones pushing esg yet giving NS a good rating. so much for that whole we're going to change corporations for the better using environmental, social, and corporate governance scores.

[@railfandepotproductions]

​@@hochhaulMore like unregulated capitalism sucks

[@Talldarkhandsom]

The East Palestine derailment is in the 10% range of rail accidents. 90% of derailments happen at 10 MPH. Detectors or no Detectors, things happen

[@2kanchoo]

@@Talldarkhandsom this is true for all derailments but that is accounting for the majority which aren’t a burnt through bearing. I don’t have the stats but I’d be willing to bet out of failed wheel bearings the majority of those derailments are closer to track speed. This exact derailment finer calibrated or linked hot boxes would have alerted the crew thus reducing the speed they were traveling when it let go because they would slow down, if not prevented the derailment altogether by alerting them by the second one, not just the third which by then was too late. Hot axle alarms are taken very seriously by crews (by rule). if they calibrated the scanners to squawk a message about hot axle alarm at a much lower temperature they would have known about it by the first or second scanner which showed rises in temperature at the location of failure, and therefore could have checked it out/dealt with earlier instead of the first 2 saying good pullby and not till the third one which was too late finally saying there was a problem.

[@Talldarkhandsom]

@@2kanchoo I agree with you, by and large failed bearings happen at track speed. I've been over at team orange for 20 years and we had 2 hot bearings both on coal loads at tracks speed. 1 was caught, the other hit critical failure, luckily just 1 car hit the ground. 2 or 3 years I noticed new acoustic detectors put up. are you familiar with those?

[@mikefilipkowski5445]

Norfolk southern at its best.... Deraioments