Dutch Army to Reestablish Tanks Battalion After 13 Years
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- Netherlands is set to make a significant military comeback as the Netherlands plans to re-introduce a tank battalion following the shelving of nearly 1,000 MBTs. This initiative is part of a massive $26.6 billion defense drive aimed at revitalizing military capabilities and enhancing national security.
The Dutch government always learns..... the hard way.
Compared to Germany a quite comfortable position.German government learns not much, neither the hard nor the soft way.😂
Unfortunately it is the population who can pay for the incompetence...
@@dutchsailor6620 That's what you get when appointing a civilian as minister of defence. Absolutely no connection to the department they control. That's throughout the ministries.
They are pussies, we had 200 F-16's in the 80s
@@pjhgerlach Current Dutch minister is also civilian. However the state secretary that operates below him is a former commando so can correct him.
Better late than never.... but we are a nation of penny pinchers
About time we got a true Army again. We need at least 300+ Leopard 2 A8 (as a stop gap mostly until new tanks like Kf51, M1A3 are available)). We also need more CV90's and PzH2000.
We also need to get M270 MLRS again (which is far superior to HIMARS as it is tracked, armored and has twice the missile load).
Boxers and Fenneks are wheeled so unsuitable for actual combat roles, especially in mech units. Boxers are way to tall, less cross country mobility due to wheels and can't keep up with tanks off-road.
We need to replace all current Boxers and Fenneks with CV90 variants in mech units (and 13th brigade should turn back into mech). Tracks give much better overal mobility (off-road) and allow them to keep up with Leo2 and CV90 off-road. As CV90s are upgraded with ATGMs specialized ATGM vehicles are no longer needed. But I also see the CV90120 as a useful vehicle for recon by force and anti-armor role.
The Boxers and Fenneks should then be transferred to units that currently use trucks and 4x4s. For instance use Boxer for logistics behind the own lines. Fennek is useful for airborne as it is light enough to be Chinook carried.
We need an armored 4x4 similar to JLTV. If Fennek is replaced with CV90s, these Fenneks could do this role perfectly and replace both MB290 and Amarok in all roles close to the front.
We dont really need anAir Mobile Brigade. It is better to concentrate on having 3 full mech brigades again. As these are the true combat power. How useful is an airborne unit if it gets there but has no firepower to do any real damage and gets defeated with ease?
The Apaches could then be used primarily to provide air support to mech units. Similar to how the US Army has them integrated with mech brigades. The helicopters can be used for resupply mech units or ferry personnel.
We already have the Marines as a light unit, which I think should be given light tanks and APCs to be more combat capable.
However if air mobile is maintained it should be given light armor like Weisel or other helicopter carried tracked armor. An airborne light tank would greatly increase their combat strength. But apart from the Scorpion/Scimitar, which is an old design none of them can be carried by a helicopter.
The Griffin could be useful for both Air Mobile and Marines. But something like its competitor (the upgraded M8 that could even be airdropped) would be better.
The whole point of airborne is to seize an area long enough before mech units can come to relief them. Having light armor will increase their chances of surviving long enough.
NL also needs its own C-17s for better transport of armor by air including Leopard 2. We already do have this capability by sea with the 2 Rotterdam class amphibious transports + LCUs (which can carry Leopard 2) and the Karel Doorman class transport ship.
That is why the new transports that are ordered should be cancelled and C-17s should be bought instead.
The Leopard 2A8 has actually an upgraded engine, delivering 1600 instead of 1500 hp. Combined with the modified final drive ratio of the A7 variant it should restore mobility akin to the Leopard 2A4 despite the weight increase.
Like we told them the Dutch dod when they ended the tank the re-establishment will be more expensive than keeping it. Both financially and in training. It will take 7 years to retrain the battalion and it's support.
It will be 50 Leopard 2A8 plus support vehicles.
On the upside the 4th tank company of the Panzerbataillon 414 of the German military, is entirely staffed by dutch soldiers, but operating German Leopard 2 tanks, as to retain know how in the Royal Netherlands Army.
There are also some dutch in the Panzerbataillon 414 Staff and the 1st Staff company..
So there is a better foundation than what you were implying.
The dutch soldiers come from the Regiment Huzaren Prinses Catharina-Amalia
@@WilhelmEley-s3y enough to fulfil two companies with a mix of experienced and inexperienced soldiers and some of the battalion leadership. The full battalion will be closer to a decade if they ever get enough new recruits into the KL. Realism not optimism is the subject. You don't have to tell me where they come from i have forgotten more about Dutch cavalry than you will ever know.
@@WilhelmEley-s3y These were actually Dutch Leopard 2 A6 (the last 15 NL had). These were given to Germany and then leased back under agreement they would be constantly upgraded to latest standard.
Het maakt niet uit hoeveel tanks we hebben. Het koningshuis zit toch als eerste op de boot naar Canada, als het er op aan komt.
2 small corrections: we already bought 2 ASW fregats, the whitepaper announced the precurement of 2 EXTRA fregats. We also are not buying our new subs from france but rather letting them be built by a french company, it is still possible this will change because the US doesn't want to give the french the sensitive information of the tomahawk
We did have tanks in the meanwhile, but those where leased from germany, to keep the knowledge base.
After these Dutch tanks were given to Germany first. Then leased back under agreement they were upgraded.
We can add 10 tank battalions and we still wouldn't have much of an army.
Minister Break-el-mens has to order the KF51 Panther !
Thank you very insightful. 😊
Pronounce brekelmans as braykelmahms
and there is the bullshit AI
They should buy 50 Kodiak 50 Leguan 100 Keiler 300 Leopard 2A8, 250 CV90 MKIV 650 Boxer IFV and 1.500 Iveco LMV and 5.000 DAF Military Truck and 70 Atmos 2000 also 30 Puls Systems and lastly 4.000 VW Amarok for it's army.
Agree on Leopard 2 its variants and CV90. But as artillery we need to get more PzH2000 (the best gun artillery) and getting back M270 MLRS (which is far superior to HIMARS as it is tracked, armored and has twice the missile load).
Atmos is to inferior to mech units, completely inferior to PzH2000 in every way. It has no armor, no protection against weather (open), no tracks (so poor off-road). It is to vulnerable to counter artillery, drones, special forces and anything else. Atmos would only be useful for light units like airborne or marines. Replacing towed artillery (which is obsolete).
We do not need extra Boxers. These vehicles are way to tall, less cross country mobility due to wheels and can't keep up with tanks off-road.
We need to replace all current Boxers and Fenneks with CV90 variants in mech units (and 13th brigade should turn back into mech). Tracks give much better overal mobility (off-road) and allow them to keep up with Leo2 and CV90 off-road.
The Boxers and Fenneks should then be transferred to units that currently use trucks and 4x4s. For instance use Boxer for logistics behind the own lines. Fennek is useful for airborne as it is light enough to be Chinook carried.
Instead of Amarok we need an armored 4x4 similar to JLTV. The Fennek we have could do this role perfectly.
But as for our Air Mobile Brigade, we don't really need it. It is better to concentrate on having 3 full mech brigades again. As these are the true combat power. How useful is an airborne unit if it gets there but has no firepower to do any real damage.
The Apaches could then be used primarily to provide air support to mech units. Similar to how the US Army has them integrated with mech brigades. The helicopters can be used for resupply or ferry personnel.
We already have the Marines for a light unit, which I think should be given light tanks and APCs to be more combat capable.
However if air mobile is maintained it should be given light armor like Weisel or other helicopter carried tracked armor. An airborne light tank would greatly increase their combat strength. But apart from the Scorpion/Scimitar, which is an old design none of them can be carried by a helicopter.
The Griffin could be useful for both Air Mobile and Marines. But something like its competitor (the upgraded M8) would be better.
The whole point of airborne is to seize an area long enough before mech units can come to relief them. Having light armor will increase their chances of surviving long enough.
NL also needs its own C-17s for better transport of armor by air including Leopard 2. We already do have this capability by sea with the 2 Rotterdam class amphibious transports + LCUs (which can carry Leopard 2) and the Karel Doorman class transport ship.
That is why the new transports that are ordered should be cancelled and C-17s should be bought instead.
Too heavy to operate in Russia.
Good thing then that we won't have to operate them in Russia, also what you mention goes for a large part of Russia, but not the whole. Even thoug, we are NOT going to operate in Russia.
I thought that they sold their tanks to Finland….
We did. Then leased 18 from Germany and are now purchasing new ones.
We once had like the biggest Leopard stockpile in Europe after Germany, sold to Portugal, Canada, the Fins..
@@Twiggy163 These 18 were in fact the last Dutch Leopard 2 A6's. They were given to Germany and then leased back under agreement Germany would upgrade them to latest standard.
YES!!!!
Dumb, new drone division makes more sense....
2A8 has anti drone strike tech.
Do some research first.
Does it include a white flag ? 😂😂
Old thinking... we bought Leo 2s 45 yrs ago, it's totally outdated with 4-man crew. Maybe nice to have, but investing a lot of money, for something that will be tactically outdated in a few years? Nobody watched tdllie past 2,5 yrs? Defenitely insane, priirities should be proven capacities: cyber, EW, well-equipped infantry with fire-power, artillery, drones, drones and.. drones
Better invest in some cutting edge electronic warfare capabilities along with the latest anti aircraft/anti missile systems to keep those nasty drones and cruise missiles from destroying your new tanks before they can impact the battlefield.
It's neither this or that, an good army needs several ways of conducting operations.
You need to try to hamper the enemy's ability to conduct operations.
For example, using electronic warfare.
Then you need to try to take out there forces before they reach the front/ their objective.
For example, using drones to take out supply lines.
And then you need the weapons and people to wage the "dirty" war.
And this is where for example the tanks come into play. To destroy the enemy's forces.
So tanks still have their place in a modern army.
Just like navy's have aircraft carriers as their top piece but also other types of ships to support them, and conduct operations where they're not the right fit.
(edit: few typos)
Why would you think that the Dutch government is only buying tanks and nothing else?
The Dutch ordered NOMADS mobile missile air defence systems and are expected to order between 32-36 Skyranger 30 or 35 SPAAG's which excell especially against Drones, next to that their Boxer mechanized-infantry batallions are to receive PuBo (Puma Boxer) unmanned turrets if the latest version these should next to a 30mm chain gun also have an ATGM and... an anti-drone system, they just bought a number of Mjolner twin-120mm SP mortar systems to be used in their CV9035;s and their pretty hefty CV9035MKIII IFV MLU program is starting to deliver the first upgraded vehicles since the end of this past spring.
I agree tanks are obsolete
@@somedutchguy9184 Except they aren't, eventhough it's the fashionable thing to say that they are. Counters for drones have allready been developed, while others are beying developed.
It's part of the race that's existed pretty much since the start of time: something gets developed-> a counter appears later on-> the original development gets improed-> the counter gets improved or a new counter gets deeloped.
It's the same with tanks. APS (active protection systems) on tanks are starting to becomes more and more integrated in modern armed forces to help protect against modern anti-tank guided missiles. And the same will be the case with drones.