+Metatron didn't know you watched these videos as well! I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, though, All of you guys (You, Ian, Matt, Skall, Shad, Lindy, Thrand, and Eldgrimr. Sorry if I missed someone!) seem to be a pretty close bunch, always discussing with one another and watching each others' videos.
Robert R i mean really this loos like glorified asian movie when warriors unsheath their swords at the same time enemys head is falling... and alot of strikes from scabard
This seems to perfectly explain munition 3/4 armor for common foot soldiers. Their armor is not custom made so the greaves would be very uncomfortable, and as foot soldiers they dont have to worry about lower leg protection nearly as much as the mounted man-at-arms. So why even try to make them at all. Half the soldiers would probably just refuse to wear it and the other half would become impeded by it eventually and risk infections from bad blisters. Thank you for explaining this so well! I always wondered why when a whole suit was made why not just use that little extra metal to finish off the leg. Now I know it would be either time consuming to make every man their own graves or it wouldn't be worth it to try to mass produce unwanted generic armor that would end up as a liability.
I have absolutely zero interest in getting any kind of armour and yet I still find your videos incredibly interesting. I love the historical approach you use and you clearly know what your talking about.
The more I learn about armor the more impressive the fact that I’ve yet to see some gumpy misshapen work. Such precision stuff and done without modern tools. Brilliant talent from way back.
An armourer's job is not simply to follow the lines of the wearer but to also accentuate when necessary. To that end, I have often found that the greave needs to fit snuggly below the calf muscle as well as it does above. The graduating space between greave and wearer begins at that spot down to the ankles. It should also be noted that if the greave fits too snug and high above the calf, it has a tendency to put pressure on that tendon as you bend your knee. Just one armourer's opinion. Great video, as always.
Cool, love how your vids demonstrate how ingeniously made the armor was, a lot of craftsmanship went into armor and it's sad how due to movies people mistakenly think armor is just to look cool
+Ryan Ferris Exactly what I was thinking too. Also, since they are shaped directly to the calf muscle I'd wonder about muscle growth or shrinkage due to varying levels of exercise. Is that a concern at all, or is the general amount of change pretty small outside of very dramatic changes?
+rich5562000 that was a joke though - it doesn't exist. King Robert wanted Lancel (I think it was him) to leave, so he sent him on a fool's errand to get a made-up thing. (sorry if you were aware of this and it is actually your joke that went over my head... xD)
+TanitAkavirius Please see my torso protection and gauntlets videos, I do cover some of that already but I will try to get more in depth in a future video.
Great videos! Very well delivered and thought through. I can only dream of owning my own harness, however, I've been fortunate enough to visit most of the vast collections in the various castles and stately homes here in NE Scotland. I have to say that some of the misconceptions you're addressing here may be, in some part, derived from such displays. Never any jacks or padded layers, mixed and matched pieces from completely different sets, even different eras. All this coupled with botched reconstructions that sorely need updating sell the public these simplified views. (One well known display has barding plates actually upside down, this has been known since the '80s yet still it remains) Although some of these sorts of things may compound these issues do you think most reproduction errors are due to price/difficulty of manufacture? I see this, most noteably the breast plate issues, even in high budget film. You would think they would want to research the specifics and 'get it right'. On another note, on the topic of a custom fit, there are examples of certain areas being 'let out'. Presumably too much time spent in the mead-hall. I think these sorts of adaptions show the true nature of these things, these were the Rolls Royce items of their time, all effort and skill was utilised to produce the best fit/protection available. They must have been meticulous. I suppose back then people were in much less of a hurry, especially if it could mean life or death.
+PIGGBUKKITT Hi, thank you! Museums here in the US are just as guilty. Quite notably the frankenharness that is the late 14th century suit at the Met in NY is pretty well known as having a lot of things incorrect. I think a lot of these modern misconception issues and repro errors come about for a variety of reasons. Museums certainly don't help when they know something is wrong and keep it on display with no clarifying information. Visitors generally have no reason to doubt the display if it's not something they study independently. The covered cuirass in the Met is often copied by armorers who don't realize the fauld on it is completely non-functional and was basically invented by Bashford Dean in the early 1900s. Then you get armorers who just copy other armorers instead of doing any study of the originals and the problem jumps up another order of magnitude. Then you get inundated with pure fantasy armor in the entertainment world and people don't stand much of a chance if they don't seek out the information on their own. Difficulty certainly plays a role too. Getting the complex shapes correct on the more difficult pieces of armor requires someone of high skill, and not everyone is there yet. Price inevitably plays a roll too, as it will always be more affordable to get poorly shaped armor because of the skill / labor involved. High quality reproductions aren't going to be cheap, which can make them out of the grasp of a lot of people unfortunately. A lot of modern armor use is also for combat sports that, when we're being intellectually honest with ourselves, don't resemble much of what we know about real medieval combat. This tends to lead to armor that's suited to the modern sport where details of historical accuracy become lost in the mix.
+Knyght Errant thanks for getting back to me! I could discuss things for a long time here but I don't want to take up too much of your time. Suffice to say; I'm very much looking forward to subsequent videos. I for one really appreciate the time and effort involved, you seem like a well learned, patient and dedicated person who really has a great love for the subject matter. This is exactly what, I'm sure, many of us look for in a TH-cam host. I wish you well and will continue to support this great channel.
The best you can do for off the shelf armour is to get something flexible like splinted greaves. if you get them in mild steel then you can bend the splints yourself until they fit. Obviously it would be better to go to a decent armourer if you can afford it.
great video, as usual. could you take the habit of linking us to the armourers you mention (or the ones whose work you've shown) in the description of your videos? that way it's easier for us to get good armour, plus the get some well deserved publicity ;)
+hacheurdepoulet Links should always be in the description if I mention a certain armorer or show their work, I apologize if I've missed some. But just because I've worked with a specific armorer, it does not mean there aren't hundreds of other good ones out there, so I encourage people to do their research and use the knowledge they gain to evaluate an armor on their own.
+Knyght Errant Good to know! Sorry for bothering you by commenting in all your videos, but i really want you to get more attention in the world of youtube :3 Good luck !
hacheurdepoulet It's no problem at all. I just want people to understand that I'm intentionally steering clear of saying "buy this product, or go to this guy for this..." I think it will serve people better to have the underlying information so they can make an informed decision.
Well thanks for aswering! On another note it is a pitty that most smiths do not have a properly set up website, which can be offputing to some potential customers (I live in Belgium and therefore am probably going to look into eastern Europe to get my armour and their products are amazing, but the communication is quite scarce ..)
Is there any difference in weight between suits of armor that include a full mail shirt compared with ones that forgo the haubergeon in favor of a backplate and tassets with mail only in the gaps?
An excellent option if you cannot be there as your armourer creates your greaves. Fiberglass casts of your leg to include your foot. As Ian stated leg armour starts at the foot, so the sabaton fits and works with the cased greave...the greave fits and works with the demi-greave and the poleyn and cuisse. You can use any search engine to find "fiberglass casting tape"
Since something I've noticed that calves seem to get slightly wider as you bend your leg past a certain point I wonder was there allowance for that in the greaves?
No, padding will begin to interfere with the proper fit and mobility. The desire to pad under the close fitting components of plate armor is more of a modern 're-enactorism'
Hey, man, yet another great video :) Was just wondering whether you plan on doing a similar video on the shaping of splinted limbs? Or do they tend to take on a more cyldrical shape when worn? (could explain why splinted greaves seem not to be a thing haha)
+SerAlgernop BlitzKrieger Even splinted greaves in a lot of the artistic sources seem to be pretty shaped. I don't know of any survivals though, so it's harder to say.
There are always examples of armor that didn't have good shaping, but higher quality armor (and splint was worn by wealthy individuals as well, it's not necessarily a 'poor man's armor') usually demonstrates some sort of shaping beyond a tapering tube, including arms / cuisses. Here's a decent example: (effigiesandbrasses.com/821/1127/)
I suspect the need for a proper fit is why we don't see these in later mass produced plate kits. Unfortunately for me, I'm a toe-walker, so I'd have to get things super custom done (if at all possible)
I guess the term " suit of armor" is enough to say that if you get an off the peg suit as a against a bespoke suit, then the differences are large. I would not think you could fight long in armor that does not fit as it should
+godofimagination As Thisold said, no padding under the greaves. By the time of the full plate leg harness, padding wasn't necessary because of the close fit of the armor.
Tangentially related, It seems that many suits of plate armor were historically ordered by kings en-mass from far off locals like Italy and Germany and shipped to them. How were these harnesses fitted to their users? I'm assuming they were "adjusted" by a local armorsmith on an anvil but it occurs to me that each suit could have been customized to a casting (impractical given the number though) or to specific measurements (not accurately though with the lack of measure standards) but most likely were created in a Small, Medium, Large or perhaps to a numbered scheme like clothing size?
+Parker Brown Originally one of the four Marian antiphons, It is still said every day as the common Catholic prayer "Hail Holy Queen" at the conclusion of the rosary.
+Knyght Errant Outstanding. You hit upon the specific information I was looking for. Out of curiosity, will you be present at this year's Military Through the Ages? I live in Williamsburg and was able to attend for the first time last year.
The way armour is so closely fitted makes me imagine how knights would have to take care not to change body shape over time. That or they would have to remake their armour set every few years, wich wouldn't be very practical. Or maybe their knight "careers" used to be short.
+Thiago Monteiro Geoffroi de Charny, a famous 14th century French Knight actually complains at one point later in his life about older heavier men-at-arms trying to squeeze into the fashionably tight-waisted breastplates that don't quite fit them anymore :)
+Thiago Monteiro Well plate armor didn't take as long to make as chainmail. Granted, it still took like 400 hours, but that's shorter than the 1000+ hours for chainmail. Yeah, I guess some careers were shorter - or the knight would sell his suit and get a new one made.
Mail is much easier to modify than plate armor though, and this was done in period. Mail scraps and individual rings could be used to repair or tailor existing garments. Plate is more problematic to alter after the fact.
+Knyght Errant fantastic even for your high standards! Do you have any video describing the smithing, i.e. what parts where cast, what parts where hammered, etc? Did Kings for example leave casts of body parts with craftsmen? Were all these armours gifted to kings barely functional? Thank you!
I noticed that one of the originals you show in this video is that there are holes around the lower edge of the greave, presumably for lining. So could you compensate for a less than ideal greave by adjusting the padding?
The holes on the lower edge of the greave are for attaching integral mail sabatons for the feet. This is a characteristic of mid to late 15th century Italian armors, where plate sabatons were often omitted. You can see what I'm describing here on the surviving example from the 'Avant' Armour (click to zoom when you get there) - goo.gl/7J1Uun
Knyght Errant thanks for responding. I was not aware that mail was used to defend the foot during this time period, but it makes perfect sense, since the foot isn't the most vital part of the body and it is hard to reach, so you might not bother with protecting the foot with plate since mail is sufficient. About shaping, does splint limb armour have to be shaped to the limb in a similar manner as solid plate protection, or is it more forgiving in that regard?
What about muscle gain/loss, weight... If greaves need such tight fit, does it mean they were potentially the most frequently adjusted or even replaced part of the armour?
+ilzen ver'khaan Consider that men-at-arms wearing leg harness have been training to fight in it for the better part of their lives. Chances are their calves aren't going to get appreciably larger in a short enough amount of time once they've reached adulthood. Calves are also notoriously one of the most difficult muscles to get to respond to targeted training.
Anyone on here know of an armorer in devon, england, that can make a decent harness? If not any suggested web sites etc that i can look at? I want a full harness but simply cannot find a decent one.
Cool video! Query: Do you account for the measurement of the split hose? (Or does the mold take care of that since [I imagine] it is slightly larger than you calf.)
I've seen the remarks about changes in weight etc, but that did make me wonder about something else entirely. Has there been any evidence perhaps for some of the richest nobility that younger people still clearly in the growing stages would get a full suit made only to outgrow it over a year or two considering how close fitting some of the parts are? It can seem bad enough with normal clothes these days as kids are getting taller until it finally starts to slow down a bit around 16-19 years of age. And I'm assuming that the amount of years during which people still grow wasn't much different in those times so that could be a real problem when it comes to outfitting them because of the average life expectancy and at what age people were expected to do "adult things".
+Extra stuff One of the greaves I show at 4:15 (second in the from the left) is a child's greave. It's attributed to Charles VI of France before he was king, but when he was a boy. So yes, they were making very expensive, close-fitting pieces of armor for kids that would quickly outgrow what they were wearing, but they could afford to :) I have a young daughter, for whom I lament having to make shoes for each re-enactment season, I can't imagine having to do the same thing with armor.
+FireFyfe Just like he said, I guess, by making casts of the leg. Armor was really expensive and making a cast fairly cheap (the casting technology having been around for at least a couple of thousand years by then).
Hi I was wondering if you watch game of thrones and I know armour like the kingsgaurd armour is pathetic and not realistic but I was wondering if the lannister armour or stark armour were realistic at all (i.e. it would work in a real combat situation)
+Nicktaco The armor Robb Stark wears has ok arms (not the shoulders) and basically a 16th century gorget. His coat of plates or whatever it's supposed to be is a little weird and it doesn't look like it would give your torso the proper mobility. His shoulders look a little oversized for dramatic effect and again might be unnecessarily restrictive. The Lannister cuirass is really really flat for some reason. The overall styling looks like it borrows elements of western and Japanese armor. It certainly looks cool, but it's not very historical looking.
wow that was interesting, thanks I have been wondering how much distance a breastplate would have to be from the actual chest to be effective, Although it does seem that neck protection and leg protection is non-existent. sorry just another question if you look at GoT whenever people are fighting they always seem to have a skirt around the upper part of the legs to the waist, is this historical?
Nicktaco They are fond of skirts, aren't they? That's not really something found in Western Europe. Of course there are faulds, but they are far more rigid and articulated than what you see in GoT. Then later on you have tonlet armor which is basically a giant steel skirt, but it's very rigid. The skirts everyone wears in GoT are more similar to coat of plates construction, but I've never seen a long historical skirt like that.
Człowiek Wiking That's my point. It's probably my favorite prayer, and it carries very deep meaning. I don't think a lot of people realize what it is when they hear it.
Fantastic video as always! Thank you so much. Yes mamma mia wrong or cheap greaves are a living hell. I like this series, can't wait for next one.
+Metatron didn't know you watched these videos as well! I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, though, All of you guys (You, Ian, Matt, Skall, Shad, Lindy, Thrand, and Eldgrimr. Sorry if I missed someone!) seem to be a pretty close bunch, always discussing with one another and watching each others' videos.
+OhMyTwitch
Well there aren't that many people who do this kind of stuff...
+Metatron Thanks Raffaello! I've owned bad greaves before, and they are a nightmare to wear.
1:52 that's impressive, guy on the left's sheathing his sword before his opponent's head's even hit the ground
thats some samurai shit there man :D
Shrekas 2 ayyyyyyy lemlgtr0llzxXx
Robert R i mean really this loos like glorified asian movie when warriors unsheath their swords at the same time enemys head is falling... and alot of strikes from scabard
man. armorers have it tough compared to swordmakers
This seems to perfectly explain munition 3/4 armor for common foot soldiers. Their armor is not custom made so the greaves would be very uncomfortable, and as foot soldiers they dont have to worry about lower leg protection nearly as much as the mounted man-at-arms. So why even try to make them at all. Half the soldiers would probably just refuse to wear it and the other half would become impeded by it eventually and risk infections from bad blisters.
Thank you for explaining this so well!
I always wondered why when a whole suit was made why not just use that little extra metal to finish off the leg. Now I know it would be either time consuming to make every man their own graves or it wouldn't be worth it to try to mass produce unwanted generic armor that would end up as a liability.
I have absolutely zero interest in getting any kind of armour and yet I still find your videos incredibly interesting. I love the historical approach you use and you clearly know what your talking about.
+liam montgomery Thank you!
The more I learn about armor the more impressive the fact that I’ve yet to see some gumpy misshapen work. Such precision stuff and done without modern tools. Brilliant talent from way back.
your drawing demonstrating greaves and their fitment was very impressive.
An armourer's job is not simply to follow the lines of the wearer but to also accentuate when necessary. To that end, I have often found that the greave needs to fit snuggly below the calf muscle as well as it does above. The graduating space between greave and wearer begins at that spot down to the ankles.
It should also be noted that if the greave fits too snug and high above the calf, it has a tendency to put pressure on that tendon as you bend your knee.
Just one armourer's opinion.
Great video, as always.
All Hollywood and roleplaying game producers should be required to watch your videos!
Good video, loved the music choice of Salve Regina in the intro.
Cool, love how your vids demonstrate how ingeniously made the armor was, a lot of craftsmanship went into armor and it's sad how due to movies people mistakenly think armor is just to look cool
And when you get the leg casting you can slap it into a fishnet stocking a turn it into a lamp and have yourself a major award
I like your videos even before watchning them. Ive never unliked yet. Amazing work youve done so far
How much tolerance is there for weight loss/gain? Could an armorer fairly easily re-fit components, or do you end up having new pieces made?
+Ryan Ferris That's a good question. I'd love to know as well.
They mentioned a breastplate stretcher in Game of Thrones!
I'm also curious.
+Ryan Ferris Exactly what I was thinking too. Also, since they are shaped directly to the calf muscle I'd wonder about muscle growth or shrinkage due to varying levels of exercise. Is that a concern at all, or is the general amount of change pretty small outside of very dramatic changes?
+rich5562000 that was a joke though - it doesn't exist. King Robert wanted Lancel (I think it was him) to leave, so he sent him on a fool's errand to get a made-up thing.
(sorry if you were aware of this and it is actually your joke that went over my head... xD)
Your harness is from Jeff Wasson ? Wow... awesome.
I like the intro
I would love to hear you talk about brigandines and coat of plates (and corrazinas).
Also I heard that gauntlets should be fitted too, is it true?
+TanitAkavirius Please see my torso protection and gauntlets videos, I do cover some of that already but I will try to get more in depth in a future video.
+Knyght Errant I hope to see that as well
+TanitAkavirius Corazzine* if you will
Thanks, this videos are great to learn about manufacturing and to better understand how the armor would work and fit a person
Great videos! Very well delivered and thought through.
I can only dream of owning my own harness, however,
I've been fortunate enough to visit most of the vast collections in the various castles and stately homes here in NE Scotland.
I have to say that some of the misconceptions you're addressing here may be, in some part, derived from such displays.
Never any jacks or padded layers, mixed and matched pieces from completely different sets, even different eras.
All this coupled with botched reconstructions that sorely need updating sell the public these simplified views.
(One well known display has barding plates actually upside down, this has been known since the '80s yet still it remains)
Although some of these sorts of things may compound these issues do you think most reproduction errors are due to price/difficulty of manufacture?
I see this, most noteably the breast plate issues, even in high budget film. You would think they would want to research the specifics and 'get it right'.
On another note, on the topic of a custom fit, there are examples of certain areas being 'let out'. Presumably too much time spent in the mead-hall. I think these sorts of adaptions show the true nature of these things, these were the Rolls Royce items of their time, all effort and skill was utilised to produce the best fit/protection available. They must have been meticulous. I suppose back then people were in much less of a hurry, especially if it could mean life or death.
+PIGGBUKKITT Hi, thank you! Museums here in the US are just as guilty. Quite notably the frankenharness that is the late 14th century suit at the Met in NY is pretty well known as having a lot of things incorrect.
I think a lot of these modern misconception issues and repro errors come about for a variety of reasons. Museums certainly don't help when they know something is wrong and keep it on display with no clarifying information. Visitors generally have no reason to doubt the display if it's not something they study independently. The covered cuirass in the Met is often copied by armorers who don't realize the fauld on it is completely non-functional and was basically invented by Bashford Dean in the early 1900s. Then you get armorers who just copy other armorers instead of doing any study of the originals and the problem jumps up another order of magnitude. Then you get inundated with pure fantasy armor in the entertainment world and people don't stand much of a chance if they don't seek out the information on their own.
Difficulty certainly plays a role too. Getting the complex shapes correct on the more difficult pieces of armor requires someone of high skill, and not everyone is there yet. Price inevitably plays a roll too, as it will always be more affordable to get poorly shaped armor because of the skill / labor involved. High quality reproductions aren't going to be cheap, which can make them out of the grasp of a lot of people unfortunately.
A lot of modern armor use is also for combat sports that, when we're being intellectually honest with ourselves, don't resemble much of what we know about real medieval combat. This tends to lead to armor that's suited to the modern sport where details of historical accuracy become lost in the mix.
+Knyght Errant thanks for getting back to me!
I could discuss things for a long time here but I don't want to take up too much of your time.
Suffice to say; I'm very much looking forward to subsequent videos.
I for one really appreciate the time and effort involved, you seem like a well learned, patient and dedicated person who really has a great love for the subject matter.
This is exactly what, I'm sure, many of us look for in a TH-cam host.
I wish you well and will continue to support this great channel.
PIGGBUKKITT Thank you very much!
The best you can do for off the shelf armour is to get something flexible like splinted greaves. if you get them in mild steel then you can bend the splints yourself until they fit. Obviously it would be better to go to a decent armourer if you can afford it.
Wow!! Makes perfect sence using the cast moldings! Exceptional!
great video, as usual.
could you take the habit of linking us to the armourers you mention (or the ones whose work you've shown) in the description of your videos? that way it's easier for us to get good armour, plus the get some well deserved publicity ;)
+hacheurdepoulet Links should always be in the description if I mention a certain armorer or show their work, I apologize if I've missed some. But just because I've worked with a specific armorer, it does not mean there aren't hundreds of other good ones out there, so I encourage people to do their research and use the knowledge they gain to evaluate an armor on their own.
+Knyght Errant Good to know! Sorry for bothering you by commenting in all your videos, but i really want you to get more attention in the world of youtube :3
Good luck !
hacheurdepoulet It's no problem at all. I just want people to understand that I'm intentionally steering clear of saying "buy this product, or go to this guy for this..." I think it will serve people better to have the underlying information so they can make an informed decision.
Well thanks for aswering!
On another note it is a pitty that most smiths do not have a properly set up website, which can be offputing to some potential customers (I live in Belgium and therefore am probably going to look into eastern Europe to get my armour and their products are amazing, but the communication is quite scarce ..)
Is there any difference in weight between suits of armor that include a full mail shirt compared with ones that forgo the haubergeon in favor of a backplate and tassets with mail only in the gaps?
well, yes, a significant amount of weight, around 10 kilograms would be my rough estimate
+Noah Weisbrod The mail shirt that I wear is individually the heaviest piece of kit in my harness.
An excellent option if you cannot be there as your armourer creates your greaves. Fiberglass casts of your leg to include your foot. As Ian stated leg armour starts at the foot, so the sabaton fits and works with the cased greave...the greave fits and works with the demi-greave and the poleyn and cuisse. You can use any search engine to find "fiberglass casting tape"
these videos are great I find them varry helpful as a aspring blacksmith can't water to see part 3
I was hoping for a greave video thanks
i love your channel! you are great! congrats knight!
Greetings Sir Knyght, I would be interested to know if taking a cast is a modern technique or would they have done it in bygone days?
Quick question, what is it that you call that armor at 5:03? Sigus something?
+gg2fan The armor of Archduke Sigismund of Tyrol.
Since something I've noticed that calves seem to get slightly wider as you bend your leg past a certain point I wonder was there allowance for that in the greaves?
So these are not measured or worn with any kind of padded hose?
No, padding will begin to interfere with the proper fit and mobility. The desire to pad under the close fitting components of plate armor is more of a modern 're-enactorism'
I like the new intros and outros.
Hey, man, yet another great video :)
Was just wondering whether you plan on doing a similar video on the shaping of splinted limbs? Or do they tend to take on a more cyldrical shape when worn? (could explain why splinted greaves seem not to be a thing haha)
+SerAlgernop BlitzKrieger Even splinted greaves in a lot of the artistic sources seem to be pretty shaped. I don't know of any survivals though, so it's harder to say.
+Knyght Errant would this also apply to the arm harness and cuisses?
There are always examples of armor that didn't have good shaping, but higher quality armor (and splint was worn by wealthy individuals as well, it's not necessarily a 'poor man's armor') usually demonstrates some sort of shaping beyond a tapering tube, including arms / cuisses. Here's a decent example: (effigiesandbrasses.com/821/1127/)
I suspect the need for a proper fit is why we don't see these in later mass produced plate kits. Unfortunately for me, I'm a toe-walker, so I'd have to get things super custom done (if at all possible)
Michael Eversberg II
Armored high heels for you
I guess the term " suit of armor" is enough to say that if you get an off the peg suit as a against a bespoke suit, then the differences are large. I would not think you could fight long in armor that does not fit as it should
How much does padding interfere with the fit?
+godofimagination I'm pretty sure there is no padding on the legs, at least not the lower legs.
+godofimagination As Thisold said, no padding under the greaves. By the time of the full plate leg harness, padding wasn't necessary because of the close fit of the armor.
excited seeing your videos in feed.thanks!interesting watching.Too bad armor is expensive =/
Tangentially related, It seems that many suits of plate armor were historically ordered by kings en-mass from far off locals like Italy and Germany and shipped to them. How were these harnesses fitted to their users? I'm assuming they were "adjusted" by a local armorsmith on an anvil but it occurs to me that each suit could have been customized to a casting (impractical given the number though) or to specific measurements (not accurately though with the lack of measure standards) but most likely were created in a Small, Medium, Large or perhaps to a numbered scheme like clothing size?
What's the background music?
+Parker Brown 'Salve Regina' a Gregorian chant, in this specific case from an album known as 'Chant of the Templars'. You can find it on TH-cam.
+WolfBane192 Sung by a group called "Ensemble Organum"
+Parker Brown Originally one of the four Marian antiphons, It is still said every day as the common Catholic prayer "Hail Holy Queen" at the conclusion of the rosary.
+Knyght Errant Outstanding. You hit upon the specific information I was looking for. Out of curiosity, will you be present at this year's Military Through the Ages? I live in Williamsburg and was able to attend for the first time last year.
Parker Brown Yes, we'll be there! I *think* we'll be in the same spot as last year, but sometimes they change up the locations of all the units.
The way armour is so closely fitted makes me imagine how knights would have to take care not to change body shape over time. That or they would have to remake their armour set every few years, wich wouldn't be very practical. Or maybe their knight "careers" used to be short.
+Thiago Monteiro Geoffroi de Charny, a famous 14th century French Knight actually complains at one point later in his life about older heavier men-at-arms trying to squeeze into the fashionably tight-waisted breastplates that don't quite fit them anymore :)
+Thiago Monteiro Well plate armor didn't take as long to make as chainmail. Granted, it still took like 400 hours, but that's shorter than the 1000+ hours for chainmail.
Yeah, I guess some careers were shorter - or the knight would sell his suit and get a new one made.
Mail is much easier to modify than plate armor though, and this was done in period. Mail scraps and individual rings could be used to repair or tailor existing garments. Plate is more problematic to alter after the fact.
+Knyght Errant fantastic even for your high standards! Do you have any video describing the smithing, i.e. what parts where cast, what parts where hammered, etc? Did Kings for example leave casts of body parts with craftsmen? Were all these armours gifted to kings barely functional? Thank you!
I noticed that one of the originals you show in this video is that there are holes around the lower edge of the greave, presumably for lining. So could you compensate for a less than ideal greave by adjusting the padding?
The holes on the lower edge of the greave are for attaching integral mail sabatons for the feet. This is a characteristic of mid to late 15th century Italian armors, where plate sabatons were often omitted. You can see what I'm describing here on the surviving example from the 'Avant' Armour (click to zoom when you get there) - goo.gl/7J1Uun
Knyght Errant thanks for responding. I was not aware that mail was used to defend the foot during this time period, but it makes perfect sense, since the foot isn't the most vital part of the body and it is hard to reach, so you might not bother with protecting the foot with plate since mail is sufficient.
About shaping, does splint limb armour have to be shaped to the limb in a similar manner as solid plate protection, or is it more forgiving in that regard?
I think it's worth to mention the greaves worn by Greek hoplites considering their level of fit are amazing
Whats the name of song in intro? thanks for answer :)
What about muscle gain/loss, weight... If greaves need such tight fit, does it mean they were potentially the most frequently adjusted or even replaced part of the armour?
+ilzen ver'khaan Consider that men-at-arms wearing leg harness have been training to fight in it for the better part of their lives. Chances are their calves aren't going to get appreciably larger in a short enough amount of time once they've reached adulthood. Calves are also notoriously one of the most difficult muscles to get to respond to targeted training.
Anyone on here know of an armorer in devon, england, that can make a decent harness? If not any suggested web sites etc that i can look at? I want a full harness but simply cannot find a decent one.
Cool video!
Query: Do you account for the measurement of the split hose?
(Or does the mold take care of that since [I imagine] it is slightly larger than you calf.)
+Logical-Functions Model 93 It's unnecessary, split hose aren't thick enough and will compress into your flesh to make the change in size negligible.
Knyght Errant Thanks for the response!
I've seen the remarks about changes in weight etc, but that did make me wonder about something else entirely. Has there been any evidence perhaps for some of the richest nobility that younger people still clearly in the growing stages would get a full suit made only to outgrow it over a year or two considering how close fitting some of the parts are?
It can seem bad enough with normal clothes these days as kids are getting taller until it finally starts to slow down a bit around 16-19 years of age. And I'm assuming that the amount of years during which people still grow wasn't much different in those times so that could be a real problem when it comes to outfitting them because of the average life expectancy and at what age people were expected to do "adult things".
+Extra stuff One of the greaves I show at 4:15 (second in the from the left) is a child's greave. It's attributed to Charles VI of France before he was king, but when he was a boy. So yes, they were making very expensive, close-fitting pieces of armor for kids that would quickly outgrow what they were wearing, but they could afford to :) I have a young daughter, for whom I lament having to make shoes for each re-enactment season, I can't imagine having to do the same thing with armor.
I imagine that for a smith paid by the job, though, it'd be a fairly welcome steady source of income.
Perhaps we could see a bit more on schynbalds in addition? I know that's a bit earlier than you regularly do but...
What's the name of this song?
+PolluxVarangir It's really the common Catholic prayer 'Hail Holy Queen' sung in Latin, so it's "Salve Regina"
How did they fit greaves in the late medieval period?
Presumably lots of visits to or by the armourer, or sending a pair of well fitted hose that was then stuffed to the correct size?
+FireFyfe Just like he said, I guess, by making casts of the leg. Armor was really expensive and making a cast fairly cheap (the casting technology having been around for at least a couple of thousand years by then).
Hi I was wondering if you watch game of thrones and I know armour like the kingsgaurd armour is pathetic and not realistic but I was wondering if the lannister armour or stark armour were realistic at all (i.e. it would work in a real combat situation)
+Nicktaco The armor Robb Stark wears has ok arms (not the shoulders) and basically a 16th century gorget. His coat of plates or whatever it's supposed to be is a little weird and it doesn't look like it would give your torso the proper mobility. His shoulders look a little oversized for dramatic effect and again might be unnecessarily restrictive. The Lannister cuirass is really really flat for some reason. The overall styling looks like it borrows elements of western and Japanese armor. It certainly looks cool, but it's not very historical looking.
wow that was interesting, thanks I have been wondering how much distance a breastplate would have to be from the actual chest to be effective, Although it does seem that neck protection and leg protection is non-existent.
sorry just another question if you look at GoT whenever people are fighting they always seem to have a skirt around the upper part of the legs to the waist, is this historical?
Nicktaco They are fond of skirts, aren't they? That's not really something found in Western Europe. Of course there are faulds, but they are far more rigid and articulated than what you see in GoT. Then later on you have tonlet armor which is basically a giant steel skirt, but it's very rigid. The skirts everyone wears in GoT are more similar to coat of plates construction, but I've never seen a long historical skirt like that.
really interesting thank you
Now I know why I hate my leg armour.
I fucking love your beard!
I greave for the fact that I barely have calf muscles.
no downvotes? wow, how did you manage to avoid the haters?
+Marcelo Silveira My channel is too small I guess? Don't worry, there's a few on most of my other videos :)
Dat razer blade tho...
leg casting. This is great! I recall lindybeige said once that he hammered his greaves on his own legs XD
/watch?v=suEUpBkzDm8 here
he used to have hair?!?!?!
THIS IS REALLY WEIRD!!!!
I just noticed, and... wow.
Edit: imagine this, but with Matt Easton
I like the intro just please give it a more happier song. I mean you can ignore this i dont mind.
Salve Regina :D
+Człowiek Wiking Mater Misericordiae.
Vita, Dulcedo, et Spes nostra, salve.
A lot of people hear this song and think it sounds cool and medieval, but don't realize that is of course the Catholic Prayer, Hail Holy Queen :)
Palästinalied is a "cool medieval song". Salve Regina is beautiful in both melody and meaning.
Człowiek Wiking That's my point. It's probably my favorite prayer, and it carries very deep meaning. I don't think a lot of people realize what it is when they hear it.
I am sorely greaved at the price of a suit of armour.
If I do get armour, however; I shan't be removing it, as such an action would greave me.
Don't buy armsteet greaves; they suck xD