The QSO Battery Active Balancer Upgrade. And how a tiny switch makes a simple task impossible!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ก.ย. 2024
- One of my complaints about the QSO battery was, that the cells were not top balanced when it was delivered. The BMS turned off charging at around 55V and prevented the internal balancer from doings its job (balance start voltage is set to 3.45V which is 55.2V pack voltage).
In the last video ( • Manual Top Balancing o... ), we tried to manually balance the battery using light bulbs and a power supply to either discharge cells with higher voltage or charge cells with lower voltage. That works but is a daunting and repetitive job!
So, here comes the first upgrade of the QSO battery and we will install an active balancer which will perfectly and automatically top balance all 16 cells. We're also going to install a manual switch to turn this balancer on if needed. As we know from many tests we have done with these balancers, it should not let it run all the time because it will create an imbalance if the battery is not on a higher voltage and almost fully charged.
I almost gave up on installing this switch and I had to overcome some problems with the little, tiny switch...
I also need someone's help who has a 3D printer. More about this at the end of the video.
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4s - 21s Active Balancer:
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OK, OK, OK, I have now a few people offering help with the 3D printing. Thanks everyone for getting in touch!
Caution on material. PLA softens and melts at >50*C. I might be worth looking into a high temp plastic like ABS for electrical stuff which could get hot.
The start of this post made me smile so much
Nice!
Hey Andy. Over on the Diysolar forum there’s a thread titled “Active balancer, make it smart”. In the more recent threads they’ve mentioned some really nice little voltage controls for turning on the Heltec so you don’t need to intervene to start balance manually.
Yes, seen that partly, thanks. If we only had a solution for 48V system. I'll see if I can Hankzor to provide a small voltage relay for our needs as an additional device to turn on the balancer. They exist for 12V/24V systems but not 48V.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Those parts exist. They are called voltage supervisors. You give them a voltage which might vary and they only connect it when it reaches a certain level and disconnects it if it drops below that level again. Used to prevent "brown out crashes" on microcontrollers there is no reason they can't drive a mosfet to close the "RUN pads" on the balancer
@@1over137 this sounds amazing. Do you have one you trust?
Hallo Andy... ich wußte es nicht, Bbis zu diesem Moment deiner Lieben Worte. Evtl ist das auch der Grund das ich dich mit meinem Baggerloch Englisch verstehe. Vielen Dank für deine tollen Videos.. ❤👍
Danke Dir! Hab noch zwei deutsche Kanaele. Link in der Beschreibung.
German swearing part definitely the best part, no idea what he says but it’s perfect 👌🏼
Breaker! Breaker! Breaker! Breaker! Breaker! There's 5 votes for the breaker Andy! LOL I'd do the breaker right thru the top in that big space next to the balancer.. It should be easy there as both the battery cables are crazy long and could land on the breaker. Heck, you will need to crimp new ends on, so you could even cut the cables leaving the existing ends as the sides going to the battery. Essentially, just cut the cables where they pass the top mounted breaker.
Oh yeah.. The BMS battery sense leads would still be connected... So just single pole it. Never understood why both were needed anyway. One will stop any energy leaving the battery.
Thanks, Keith. How can I decline 5 votes for a breaker solution? 😂
We cannot use these cables though as the breaker would sits between the battery and BMS which can cause massive problems. Imaging the breaker is off but all balance cables are still connected and we also have a common ground through the comms cable to another battery.
As you always advertise, safety first. So I would go for a fuse inside and attach the breaker outside the box, as you have done with your other packs. Thanks for sharing Andy, you see how an decission of a manufacurer keeps you busy for weeks. QSO should have watched a few of your videos, and act accoringly. Then they would have a great accu with BMS which could be used with lot's of applications. Just my €0.02 😀🤔
It's not that hard to build a good battery if they would just check what is out there on the market and the concerns people have. Take this all onboard and you make the perfect battery and BMS.
Finde deine Videos einfach Klasse, weiter so. 👍
Thank you!
Thanks Andy for sharing your idea and experience as an improvement for the manufacturer. Good night from Hamburg. 😎😉☺
Working on an automated solution for the balancer now.
Harte deutsche Worte, mein lieber Scholli! Hätte mich aber auch gefuchst.
Ach ja, ich spreche mich für den Sicherungsautomat aus!
Danke für die unterhaltsame Show!
I love it!! when all else fails, swear at it. seems to do something helpful🤣🤣🤣👍👍👍
It again worked 😁
Thanks for this episode. In great danger or anger the native language dominates.
I am not sure, if this switch will really remain operational. Using tuinner cables makes it easier to handle these kind of switches.
The switch was old and faulty, came apart. The new one is solid💪
Nice build. It's no fun of everything works from the beginning. 😜
Before you put in any breakers you should consider the communication cables. They might be connected to battery negative. And you probably don't want them to carry the whole load that triggered the breaker.
That's why I stopped fusing the negative, only the positive gets a breaker/fuse.
Replacing the bridge probably is fine but the 2 pole breaker could be problematic, depending on where you put it.
Hmmm, that's a good point. I also bought single pole breakers, so...
Дякую тобі за такі відео!
Дуже все позитивне. Технічно грамотний фахівець.
❤
Thanks, I guess...
Hi Andy, love the videos. I installed a service disconnect with 100a built in fuse between the two battery banks where you have the link. Not the cheapest option but felt it was worth it for my setup. I also placed a 2pole dc breaker on the main outlet. Keep up the good work!👍🏻
Thanks, James. Do you think the BMS will freak out if you disconnect the two battery strings? I'm concerned that there might be some serious current going through the balance cables because the main current path is now interrupted.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Hi Andy, not sure what would happen. Maybe a new test for you to try!🫣😁I plan only to use the service disconnect in an emergency as anyone can remove it without any tools but would definitely be interested in what would happen to the bms when it is removed.
An idea, Andy. You could turn the balancer on/off using the dry contact relay on a inverter or charge controller instead of a manual switch. Configure the dry contact to close only when battery is above 55v and open once it drops below 54V, for example. You would have completely automatic cell-balancing that only operates when it is appropriate
I would second that, but, it would depend on if he has access to the settings of the relay, I know he has the password for the BMS QSO gave it to him, but, if someone else wants to replicate that would they give them the password as well. Remember, they locked down the BMS so that it could not be altered and Andy has been asked to NOT give out the password. But I would slso like that because then you do not have to do all that drilling....
@@GapRecordingsNamibia I think Mr D is referring to using a contact on a Victron MPPT charge controller or an inverter connected to the battery. Its a good idea IMHO.
Haha 😂 very funny
We enjoy always andy!
Hey Andy, The only thing I might caution against with the double pole circuit breaker is where you electrically locate it. If you opt to do it before the BMS you could run the risk of having current inadvertently flowing through the comms ground plain on the BMS that might not end well, putting the breaker after the BMS might prove to be electrically a more sound location. If you use a single pole breaker just putting it on the positive will not be an issue, I have heard of very funny things happening to BMS mostly failing or mosfets being blown apart when using a double pole breaker ahead of the BMS to break the connection ahead of the BMS thereby wanting to be able to "Isolate" the BMS from the battery, it does not end well, using it after though I do not think will electrically interfere with the BMS.
Well, there are two ways of doing it, One works, one doesn't and causes issues as you described.
The right way is to install the double breaker is just before the terminal output of the battery box which will leave the BMS fully connected to the battery if the breaker is off. It may leave the negative connected to other batteries of the system through the comms cable but because the positive is fully disconnected as well, there is no path.
What we cannot do is installing the breaker between battery and BMS because it isolates the BMS but leaves the balance cable connected which still carry the battery voltage. I guess this is where the stories are coming from when people did this the wrong way.
It'll come soon in a future video... 😉
Loved the German swearing at the end Andy 🤣🤣🤣
Needs to happen sometimes to make things work! 😂
My grandmother was German and she used to rage at us kids in her native language when we naughty. Of course that made us laugh and made her even more angry.  That was nearly 60 years ago
Hehehe, I do the same when I yell at the neighbour 😂
great idea andy, I'm from Indonesia really like your videos
Thanks a lot. All the best to Indonesia!
@@OffGridGarageAustralia thank you sir, greetings from fellow sun activists... and warm greetings to your family from Indonesia 👍🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
15:40 🤣🤣 the Schalter is on the ass, leider geil mein lieber
Andy you have plenty of space on the top of the case, so I think enough for install Mega Fuse holder or ANL fuse holder or knife-blade cartridge fuse or ferrule fuse with proper holder. I cannot recomend to use chines DC breaker, because I dont trust them at all. Rather use MCCB breaker .
But the whole battery is made in China. Should I trust the welding, the cables, the BMS? Where to start?
The fuse down where the link is, can be the ANL fuse. Why would you think a separate holder would be necessary?
@@OffGridGarageAustralia I saw few chines DC breaker burned down. 10x triped without any problem but on 11 took a fire. So I would rather use some kind of fuse (anl, mega, ferrule, knife) + battery switch for isolation, like you had it on battery 1.0. But this is just my humble opinion. 🙂
"Dear Mr Garage, your warranty claim has been denied. We seem to have obtained some video evidence of you working outside our warranty guidelines. We thank you for your understanding and wish you all the best. Regards, QSD"..... 🤪
Outch, the warranty... 😯
Hi Andy, I vote for the breaker.
Cool, thanks
Oh, the Switch finally works🙏
I did stay up all night!
Why not both? internal fuse for disaster scenarios, 200A or so. and the external DC breaker to turn off the battery if needed.
Good point!
Hi Andy, Greetings from South Africa. My vote is for the fuse....
Thanks Ben!
As soon as you started talking about the link between the two banks, what happened when Will played with one lept to mind. Magic smoke was released (Will was using it with two 24v BMS, and it smoked when one disconnected). Odd that I have never needed an active balancer too. As an FYI, the pink plastic bubble wrap should be anti-static, however that just means it has a high resistance (not low resistance or infinite resistance). That BMS is not something that I would keep (or trust). The cells seem fine, but I am not a fan of stacking cells on their sides.
Yeah, the link is not a good spot for a fuse at it lets the BMS half connected and could damage it...
I measured the bubble wrap with infinite Ohms.
Yeah, the BMS is not great, even it looks similar to the Seplos, it is not...
Andy, rather than have to wait for someone to 3D print and ship a tray for the balancer, head off to Bunnings and get the Moroday 450 x 3mm x 3m Black Self Adhesive Eva Roll (I/N: 4000085), cut a bit the size of the back and stick on. Alternate if you want something more local sourced, got to the kitchen, grab a plastic cutting board or silicone baking mat, cut to size, and presto, another chance to have a SPAT with the wife. If your less game, a new large size cutting board or silicone baking mat from a local hardware or home-ware store would also work. Another one is if your bench cutting mat is looking a bit used, buy a new one and cut up the old one, the grid lines make it really easy to get it neat looking. There is no need to stick the sheet you use to the back as the 4 bolts will hold them in place, after you have your backing sheet matched up to the balancer run a drill bit through the holes to clear them out before bolting in place. Previously when mounting the 4s sized ones, in one case I didn't use any backing but used the hex shaped stand-offs that are used in PCs to hold the the motherboard away from the case, another time I used longer bolts with a number of nuts to provide spacing, but have found cutting backing from silicone baking mat was just easier, now using the stick on 3mm EVA foam after I got a roll of it to use between cells.
Thanks Dave. I have everything you mentioned in my garage. But I want a tray! 😎
Guten Abend Andy,
es war wohl nicht der Schalter, sondern es hat den Balancer gegrillt?! Da war doch ein Funke… das ist mir auch schon mit einem passiert (4s Modell).
Ich habe grad ‚Anne Will‘ I’m Ersten wegen dir verpasst - Herrgott Dunnerkeil Nochemo!!
Best,
Peter
There is always a spark when connecting the balancers when it charges the capacitors. Balancer works fine now with another switch.
What I’ve done with an active balancer is use a esp32 that is connected to rer485 to the bms and then write a esphome script that when the battery reaches 3.42v turn on a pin that shorts through the switch pins on the active balancer (some don’t have anything hooked up but they now all of the solder joints) using a relay.
And on the way down it active balances below 3v.
That way it’s all automatic.
And with a jk you can pipe it all into home assistant to see everything that’s in the app.
Would be really nice if the bms companies would put a balance trigger port on them and do bottom and top triggering then we could easily hook these up and have the bms do the work which is how it should be.
That sounds complicated...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia really isn’t. The work is all done. Ids just a script that says “when max voltage of cells > 3.42 or min < 3.0 turn on. Switch.
Like 4 lines.
But yes it would be way better if bmses that don’t do high amp active balancing just had a trigger port that was programmable.
I'm glad it's not only me who occasionally accidentally shorts out batteries
Hi, use the fuse, and the braker. Try the 5 and dime store for cutting board to mount the cell balancer . Have fun ANDY.
I had a lot of fun. Great video.
Thanks!
Nice sunny day here for the long weekend. I finish the bathroom. I will soon be back doing my wonderful batteries. 😢 Unless my wife wants more. I remember arcing out a Leopold tank battery when working on it. Welding the tools circle part together. lol, big spark, I was 32 years old then.
Hey Andy, Get yourself a round magnet with a hole in the center. Stick the magnet around the hole when you drill. All the shitty metal chips will stick to the magnet. No clean up and you don't get metal chips in your electronics boards.
To mount your PC board; they make plastic stand offs with adhesive ends. Stick them to the four corners and to the metal plate.. Cheers Mate!
I would do both the fuse and the breaker because it's not a whole lot of energy to put the fuse in and if you choose to break in you're already putting it in. So yeah I would do both the fuse and the breaker.
Yes! 💪
We all feel your pain going through all that work, only to find out a part was faulty... It's happened to all of us. I once spend two full days replacing a turbo on a Porsche 944 Turbo decades ago, only to find out the aftermarket turbo was NG (and a replacement was weeks away). Lots of German swearing came out of my mouth too, and I don't even speak German! 🤣
Hi Andy, you probably should also have the grips of the whole box turned around with this modification work 😉
Großartig - endlich mal normale Leute! ❤
Da musste ich erstmal 4 Bier, also OeTTINGER für Spenden! 🍻🍻
Es muss mehr (auf Deutsch) geflucht werden! 😘
Mount the switch on the front panel is easy. Use simple push button,not that toggle switch
Agreed. A toggle switch is much more susceptible to accidental bumps & knocks, & it wouldn’t need a big bump to destroy those small toggle switches.
@@evil17 push button also looks neat compared to toggle switch.
Thanks Andy, Fuse & breaker because you can 😀👍
The fuse between cells 8 and 9 will, over time, cause more cell imbalance than the factory bus bar because it's resistance is greater then the resistance of the other bus bars in the pack. I would leave the flexible bus bar there, it's resistance is likely closer to the rest of them. The markings on the DC breaker make me suspect the breaker is polarized and directional. It could ignite in over current conditions or even if you switch it off while current is traveling in the "wrong" direction while under load. The DC breakers as battery disconnects must be capable extinguishing the arc while the battery is charging and while it is discharging. Testing some DC breakers under load, in each direction would make a great video. Incorporating a class T fuse is obviously the best choice but with space constrained, you may consider an MRBF fuse.... rated to 58V and a lot better than what the pack came with. You do a fantastic job on your videos and the humor is outstanding.
I am using a microcontroller reading the min/max cell values from the BMS and activating the balancer when one cell reaches top level value. It turns off the balancer when cell difference falls under a certain value.
That breaker is directional, if it trips with current flowing in the wrong direction it could catch fire. It would also have been a good idea to use a much lighter gauge cable for the balancer switch.
@OffGridGarageAustralia Hey Andy, the fuse in the middle of the battery is a bad idea. Think about a blown fuse. The potential will be ssplit there, and your BMS-Balancer at this stage sees a big voltage differential, not good!
Very good point! Thanks.
If you know what you're doing, that Swiss is very important for that balance.👍
Thumbs up 👍 So you got switched off good night!
😴
That should be known as the Peter Switch. I would be all-in on the breaker. I like breakers better than fuses.
Jetzt musste ich wirklich lachen! Ich sehe Deinen Kanal sehr gerne und dachte mir immer: Irgendwie hört sich das wie ein deutscher Akzent an, aber was weiß ich. Nun Dein Schimpfen im Abspann: Habe so gelacht. Also viele Grüße aus Franken to sunny hot Australia.
Breaker AND Fuse! Stay carefully and next time: Please let us be with you on the next big short. That's what a cam is for ;-)
The camera was actually running but because of the time lapse, it was not visible. No shorts any more!
I have a 3D printer, in the US but glad to ship to you. Just need the dimensions and glad to whip something up. You have my email from when you sent me the replacement PCB for the seplos mason, let me know!
Thanks a lot Brian. much appreciated. I think for now, I have enough offers but I'll keep this in mind. Good to have so many options.
Andy I would put both a fuse and a breaker .. 👍
I used a switch with an LED on board & connected the LED on the balancing board to it. It's a bit fiddly as the LED on the board is tiny. It works well though.
That's a great idea. I have some switches here which have LEDs as well.
Breaker, Breaker Good Buddy! 😆
OK, OK.
Hi Andy, love the videos, but you have not made the one I’m waiting for 😢. I would love to see the second Multiplus II being installed and configured. When???
Good vid Andy. Bad luck with the switch, I would suggest a push button type, not as vulnerable to accidental knocks. Go with both, the internal fuse & an external breaker switch, I like the idea of using an internal fuse this way, it cant hurt while ur in that deep already.
Mail sent regarding the 3D-part. ;-)
You were the first, so you got the job!
Hi Andy,
And thanks again for this video, it's more and more fun!!
Why don't you use the NEYYYY?? you can adjust the desired voltage to start and stop the balancing?? (4A)
A switch??? each time, you will need to manage the switch? and if switch breaks down you have to open the battery again??
Concerning the Breaker, but a Unipole on the Positive only.
(the fuse at the junction of the 2 packs, for me it's not good?? and still open the battery again if problem??)
Have fun Andy, and thanks for sharing.
I have several of these battery cases and would need to buy a few NEEYs. I also want to show what options we have to install an active balancer. The NEEY is like a Batrium BMS. It will just work. That's not what the channel is about. As you know.
Yeah, the breaker needs to be single pole only if we leave the communication plugged in. There could be a massive current going through the LAN cable in case the breaker opens. Breaker and fuse should never trigger though, so if it is hard to get to it, it does not matter. We don't need them on a daily base, right?😉
It’s a labor of love!
Great video Andy 👍
The only German that I know is good-n-tight
Not sure what it means but a German girl I used to date taught it to me 😂😂😂
Hahahahaha 😂
Some wide mylar tape may well hide some of the battery tops and bus bars against accidental contact
Good idea! Usually the case is closed and insulated on the inside but some double insulation for the terminals cannot harm.
The QSO should sell this semi-finished product as not finished and as not safe battery, but as battery for home DIY finishing.
Oh, I thought it was meant to be a DIY battery?
If you put lipstick on a pig it is still a pig.
Thanks Andy, big 👍👍
When you said via overlaid text that the nightmare started, for a second I thought that the whole system was broken.
So very glad it was only a faulty switch, (even though that was a pain in the backside).
I’m not sure of the advantage of a double pole breaker? I’ve only gone single pole (plus a fuse) …. do you think that’s an issue at all?
Not a problem at all, Dave. A single pole breaker will perfectly do. I just like to be safe and disconnect both.
Oh Andy... no. Since the BMS does not know anything about the current of the balancer, it falsifies the measured values with the thin cables. The larger the balancer current is, you will see, it can come to jumps of the BMS measurement, with some bad luck, the BMS switches off, because it thinks the difference would be too big. But this is only caused by the balancing.
Is this something you have personally experienced? If so can you describe your setup a little, which BMS and balancer, battery pack, etc.
Since Andy only uses the add-on balancers on demand when he feels the need to rebalance a battery he hasn’t mentioned seeing this behavior before so I assume he hasn’t seen it.
I also haven’t seen anyone else mention it either.
@@inmyimage1081 You can do the math. 50cm cable with 0.5mm² at 2A current on the cable and 3.2V are about 2% voltage loss. are about 64mV which are suddenly more on the cable. Now a few more contact resistors and a cell difference is suddenly >100mV or even more.
In his cabinet, he uses BMS with balancer internally, they know when currents flow and do not measure at such times. As long as the differences are not too large, they do not affect the whole, but if the BMS switches off because of too high cell differences, he will notice it.
@@inmyimage1081 Andy makes interesting videos, but everything should also not be replicated as he does.
It won't have any negative impact as we have seen from our testing in the battery shelf where I had the active balancer in parallel to the BMS for weeks (same balance cables from the terminal block to the batteries). The balancer of this BMS is only 506-60mA and does nothing.
Your assumption is not correct as the BMS will either measure or balance but not at the same time.
@@maxmeyer7299 The only BMS in his cabinet that he does not use the active balancer with is the JK BMS because it already has a decent active balancer function. The other 2 BMSs he uses the Heltec Balancer with, note that one of the other 2 BMSs is a Heltec BMS so with that one it’s the Heltec BMS + the Heltec Capacitive Active Balancer
i like the german bonus information - kann ja wohl nich ist .... wonderful
Andy yo le quitaba el balanceador tipo seplos que lleva y le ponía como las tuyas caseras que las has montado y no te Dan problemas un saludo
Andy, I think the perfect balancer would be a unit that connects to dumb capacitor one and just turns it on/off when one the cells gets to a predetermined voltage. The unit itself does not need to do any balancing, just intelligently control the other one?
Haha! Put this on a t-shirt ”No nuts i my box” , sry Andy but i just had to comment that, cheers 🍻 😊
You must have misunderstood something here 🤦♂️😂
@OffGridGarageAustralia 🐸
Hey Andy - this BMS should have two dry contacts on Board (one for Alarm status / one for Faul status).
You can use the Alarm-Dry Contact to control the Active Balancer then.
If you can hear a click if one of the states changes in the Software, you only have to search for the Pins on the connector.
I could not hear any click sounds when reaching the alarm state, but I will do some more testing in this regards and pay attention to that. Some relays are very quite so I may just measure the terminals. Thanks a lot for pointing this out. That would be a fantastic solution for this battery.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Can you show us a Close-Up of the BMS next time please?
On my BMS, the relays are very tiny and very very quiet too - yours could have SSRs instead? (i mean - yours has builtin BT and Wifi 😲)
Good luck my froggy friend! 🐸
@@Der_Hannes I found these two relays on the BMS but could not figure out which contact terminals to use for them.
After contacting QSO, they confirmed these relays are being used for internal operation of the BMS and cannot be programmed or used by the customer. So that's another 👎for this BMS.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia
I know those companies. They don't know nothing about the BMS and people like us are a pain in the butt. I bet you can hear a tiny Klick if the alarm state is on, and another when the protect is on.
Thumbs down for QSO, not for the BMS (in this Case)
Can you post a picture of the BMS?
@@Der_Hannes I'll post a picture in the community forum here:
www.youtube.com/@OffGridGarageAustralia/community
We can do the printing for you, but coming from Perth so if someone closer wants to do that then probably better for you
Well, someone from Norway got the job now. I think it's closer than Perth? Everything is closer than Perth, it feels like 😂
Thanks a lot Trev, you have already done me a huge favour.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Like you say, everywhere seems closer than Perth... Always happy to help the helper, you help us all a huge amount! And if you need any printing done in the future, just let me know, we've got a nice Prusa all warmed up and ready to go 😀
Awesome Andy!
My feeling is to go with the breaker instead of the fuse. You may also try a single-pole breaker due to space constraints.
Why on earth you need such a high-guage wires between the swtich and the balancer?
german route would be the breaker for sure - more work, more sweat and more fun
I kind of tend to install the breaker. I like the double pole switch function to fully isolate the battery.
Andy, Could you please give your recommended numbers for active balancing and your experiences of using them. When to start balancing? What is the maximum differential between cells that is already OK and does not need active balancing? How often have you used active balancer on 2.0 battery packs, especially with JK BMS? Which active 16s balancer do you recommend, Heltec or Neeey-4th gen? With the Neeey-4th gen I like the smart options and just need to set it up and eventually monitoring with Heltec it needs to be manually turned on and off. Thank you for the answers in advance.
go back through his prior videos as he has done several specifically about balancing including his recommendations. He prefers Heltec for their dead simple functionality and cost but really likes the Neey for its control but given the cost you should have noticed him mention the Neey in this video and either the prior video or one before that but even so he put a heltec in there.
OK, that's a lot of questions. I'll pack the answer in a video soon. Might be easier. Thanks for the suggestion.
Heello andy, I think you soldered the switch on the NC and NO pins and not NO / Common :( .
Also, what's the reference of this Fuse ? Thanks :)
Nah, i soldered the middle pin and one of the others. That was all good. The switch was just old and broken already.
That's an ANL fuse with 300A. Victron sells them as 80V fuses (but expensive):
www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-Midi,-Mega-and-ANL-fuses,-and-fuse-holders-EN.pdf
A Hall effect current sensor module could be used to control a relay that then turns on or off the active balancer
🤣 Ich drück den Schalter und der jeeet!
Kennste noch...!
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Na klar, ist ein Klassiker.
Andy couldnt you use a dc solid state relay with your solar charge controller to activate the active balancer instead of that switch. That way as long as the battery was charging with solar then the active balancer would be working and when there was no charge it would shut off active balancer. I dont really know because my balancers ive ordered are not here yet but it seems like it will work
Heya, wel now it works well done
My german isnt good enough to follow along with the swearing in real-time, but I did not need a translator for that giggle. Thats universal for "i fixed it now!"
Whats the end goal for this unit? Permanent installation to the home or just testing/reviewing/modifying and selling it on afterwards?
Thanks Zoe, glad you got the message 😊
Not sure what we are going to do with the battery. This will be very far in the future to decide. I have some huge projects coming up over the winter period... Just don't know where to start 🤔
Thanks!
Thanks a lot, Mike. Great support!
Hi' I certainly recommend using Active equalisers, but I don't recommend the capacitor based versions, but only the transformer based models.
The reason being that capacitors are known for failing when involved in energy transfer either because of underspecified voltage specs, underspecified number of operating hours or temperature.
Best regards Watch-Out
Hmm, never heard of one failing so far. I think if used only a few times a year, they will last a very long time before the caps are failing.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Well not having it turned on all the time will definately help tremendously, and thereby eliminate this risk, but it doesn't change the fact that capacitors involved in switching circuits most often are the reason such circuits fail. For sure you must have seen this fenomenon both in Switch mode PSUs and high frequency switching inverters.
Very often manufacturers use underspecced capacitors to save money. The most famous of such savings in manufacturing, are the Samsung monitors that stopped working just s little after the warranty period expired.
Ist der ganze Schalter im Arsch 😂
Aber so was von... wasn Scheissding!
breaker is better because you can easily switch it off when needed.
Löten verbindet 😁👌
Oh, yes, one more thing Andy. The only reason you didn't fry that balancer board competely is because AliExpress shipped it to you in a fake anti-static bag. For future reference, pink plastic bags are conductive to prevent static build up! They are not intended to be insulative, but the opposite, conductive to conduct the static away!
Thanks Paul, I have shown this in a past video, that neither the pink plastic not the bag the balancer is coming in are actually conductive in any form. Some people have mentioned that but it's a myth, I guess.
Also, the balancer has not being fired at all. They always spark when connected. Especially at a 48V battery. Also tested in past videos 😊
I have a 'concern' about the way you've connected your active balancer. You are using the same cables as the passive balancer. So when the passive balancer discharges on off the cells, there is a slight deviation of voltage while that is going on. If the Active balancer actually reads the voltage at the precise moment when the passive balancer is discharging the cell, the active balancer may decide (because of the lower reading) to 'move' energy from another cells to this one while the passive balancer is discharging it. I think you would be better off extending the length of your active balancer leads and connect them directly to the cell bus bars instead of the leads. I am pretty sure you will get better readings and have a more efficient setup
The balancer cables were rejoined. He does not need to use the same gauge cable as it is not a "loop through" but only a "tap off" point to the active balancer.
That won't be an issue. If you remember, we had such a setup for weeks in the battery shelf when we did the initial setup and testing. BMS and active balancer were using the same balance cables from the row of terminal blocks to the cells. No issues.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Understood and agreed... my comment was more related to efficiency of the active balancer. I think the active balancer will sometimes balance the wrong cells because of the 'bad' voltage readings it will read if it happens at the same time as when the passive balancer is balancing.
Hi Andy, I would really like to know, if you could turn on the active balancer by the victron smart shunt
The Smart Shunt does not have a relay, the Victron Battery Monitor BMV has and could be used for that.
I've got some other solutions... stay tuned.
Good evening!
Hallo Andy.
Allways disconect and verify that there is no voltage left before working on electrical components! ;-)
Maybe a better idea to switch the balancer automaticly by voltage detection.
The Space on top is the optimal place for the fuse you missed. Put a fuseholder close to the positive pole.
I think a fuse in the middle of the battery can cause other problems due the bms/balancer cabeling.
Why not use some simple riser bolts for the balancer together with a sheet of isolation?
Thanks Juergen, I want to show a few options on how to trigger the balancer. The switch is just one of them, so we will go from here....
There are many options to mount this balancer, no question. I wanted to involve the community a bit as well and get active 😉
Big fan of you from india
Thanks a lot!
Using the same cables for BMS an Balancer will end up in voltage jumps measured by BMS every time the Balancer is working. This could end up in BMS Disconnecting
None of that will happen. Why should the voltage jump?
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Ohm`s law and simple math. Based on the balancer current and the wire resistance. This voltage drop will be measured by the BMS.
@@michimichi7534 Well so far it works great and I haven't had any issues with what you predicted. It just seems to work as expected and balances the cells with the active balancer turned on and also the BMS balancing at the same time. I cannot observe any change in voltage or even voltage jumps at all.
I have a similar 400ah pack that would not top balance. I replaced the BMS with a JK.
Yep, that's another solution...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia ...and full control through bluetooth!
I have a question. Did you draw out the schematic or diagram when you added a balancer to that battery?
I am 90% sure that Y splitting the balance leads will lead to incorrect voltage readings and could potentially cause a fire or worse.
The issue is the main internal BMS of that battery pack is still connected to the cells via those balance leads.... the same leads you just added a bank of capacitors to. The internal BMS will be using those for cell voltage levels. However all it will now see if the charge level on the capacitors connected to the cells which will be bouncing and spiking with the balancer. It will get incorrect values for cell voltages. Additionally, if the internal BMS trying to passive balance while the active balancer is in circuit, things will get very confusing and at that point any and all cell voltages should be treated as invalid.
This will not end well. It may well be one of those things you get away with, but may come to bite you. I hope for your sake that does not happen in the middle of the night and result in a fire.
Nothing of this has happened and will happen. Both balancers are working perfectly fine together with no voltage issues or any other problems. We have tested all this in previous videos when I build the Battery shelf.
As for insulator, I bought silicone oven baking mats. They are cheap, easy to cut, withstand high heat and of course, non-conductive.
As for fuse vs breaker… putting a fuse in between the 2 halves of the total pack seems unwise. How is the BMS going to react if half the cells suddenly disconnect? Wouldn’t that risk frying the BMS?
I’m using marine battery switches on each of my batteries in addition to a mega fuse between each battery and the load connection in my system.
Part of my decision to use fuses instead of breakers is because in a 12v system in an RV running 200-250 amps through each battery pack is a real possibility and DC breakers that big are hard to find and expensive plus if the breaker fails I can’t just run to a local hardware store and get a new one.
Renogy (uk) have some decent looking 12v breakers (though the biggest is 160A) but you should always carry spares even though it's not likely to fail like fuses do (you gotta carry spare fuses, right?)
@@opless Absolutely, 1 for 1, actually right now I have 1.5 spares for every fuse I’m getting ready to install in my new system.
Here I was thinking you were going to run new cables. Well, I guess your SPAT branded underwear needed a change after the 🎉.
Man kann wenn man auf dem MP2 den Relaisassistenten installiert den Balancer nach beliebiger Spannung an und ausschalten.
I know, the MPPTs can do the same. With these 'mobile' batteries I just prefer a solution which stays with the battery and does not require additional cable connections to the battery. I have also already used the relay in my MP to turn on the second 'generator' inverter.
When soldering on switches use don’t heat the switch for too long it will melt inside. Happend to me a lot lol
Yeah, that was not the problem here. The switch was already damaged. Soldering for 45 years, so yeah, heat is a killer for most parts.
Can you add a isolation breaker to the Seplos 280?
Yes, you can. There is enough space behind the front panel. Should I do it and show you how?
the breaker ofcourse