How refreshing to see something besides the typical "Saul the unbeliever vs. Paul the believer" debate, thank you Jaiden Muschett! I believe that Paul is constructing a long, many-pronged argument, beginning perhaps as early as 5:12, regarding "sin/flesh/law/death" versus "gift of righteousness/Spirit/obedience/life", and that it builds to a crescendo of inner conflict and wretchedness by the end of chapter 7, to set the stage for the clouds to part and reveal God's answer in Chapter 8. I am convinced that the "wretched man" of 7:14-24 is neither Paul describing his current state, nor Paul describing his pre-Christian state, but rather he is taking on the persona of someone who has the Law, and has enough light to love the Law, but does not possess the Spirit as the enabler. (Cornelius comes to mind). Why do I take this view? Consider 7:14 for starters. How can the man who wrote Chapter 8 EVER sincerely state verse 7:14 to describe the condition of his life? Also consider that verses 7:15-25 contain NO mention of the Spirit. The man who wrote 7:4 is not the man of 7:14-24, who is only bearing fruit for death. I could go on and on... But while I believe 7:14-24 is not Paul's description of himself, I'm not saying that it is never the state of a professing "born again" believer; it can be.! Paul' description of God's solution in chapter 8 applies to those "who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit", and verses 8:5-14 describe the choice that a believer faces, to set his/her mind on the Spirit or on the Flesh. We see one example of the latter category often in the church, those who cleave to and defend keeping the Ten Commandments and who would gut verses like 7:4, arguing that only the ceremonial requirements of the law were abolished, that our death to the Law goes no deeper than that. (John Piper replies effectively to this; in his answer to the question, "how can God be 100% for me", his answer is to abandon all law-keeping in favor of reliance on the Spirit.) So, in conclusion, the real issue of Romans 7 is not "which Paul?", but "which walk; Spirit or flesh?". The former is Life, the latter is death. Seek the Spirit, yield to the Spirit, pray in the Spirit, earnestly desire His greater gifts (1 Cor 12:31), and read Galatians. Amen!
God is merciful. He always forgives. Never be ashamed to take your failures to him. He is for you, not against you! God is with you in the storm. He knows your troubles, he hears you! He is for you, on your side, always! It may feel silent at times, but he’s holding you close! May the Lord return soon! We are drawing closer. He is coming! Believe and trust in the Lord, you will be saved. Period. May the Lord bless you all! Hang in there family. Stay strong. It is not easy following the Lord. We are scoffed at. We give up our earthly dreams, our fleshly desires. What the enemy offers is short lived, but heaven is forever! Life may seem or be unfair, but God is with you! Always remember that. Things may get better or worse for you, but a kingdom awaits you! Finish the race! Repent daily and carry your cross. This world is fading fast. Your troubles are temporary! New channel here, I’d appreciate any kind of support. Don’t give up! God loves you so much! So do I. The Lord bless you!
Christianity is about sun worship, the stories about Jesus are symbolic. He is just a personification of the sun. The sun "dies" for 3 days on December 22nd, the winter solstice, when it stops its movement south, to be born again or resurrected on December 25th, when it resumes its movement north. In some areas, the calendar originally began in the constellation of Virgo, and the sun would therefore be "born of a Virgin" The sun rising in the morning is "the saviour of mankind" The sun "walks on water" is just the reflection of the sun on water/the sea. "He cometh in the clouds" is just sun rays. The sun's "followers", "helpers" or "disciples" are the 12 months and the 12 signs of the zodiac or constellations, through which the sun must pass. The sun at 12 noon is in the house or temple of the "Most High": thus.."he" begins "his Father's work" at "age" 12. The sun enters into each sign of the zodiac at 30 degrees, hense, the "Sun of God" begins his ministry at "age" 30. The sun is hung on a cross or "crucified", which represents its passing through the equinoxes. The vernal equinox being Easter, at which time it is then resurrected. The reason why saviour myths are so similar with a godman who is crucified and resurrected, who does miracles and has 12 disciples, is that these stories were based on the movements of the sun through the heavens, an astrotheological development that can be found throughout the planet, because the sun and the 12 zodiac signs can be observed around the globe. In other words, Jesus Christ and all the others upon whom this character is predicated are personifications of the sun, and the Gospel fable is merely a rehash of a mythological formula revolving around the movements of the sun through the heavens..
I think this is one of the most reassuring verses Paul wrote. He is fully committed to doing everything a Christian should and yet he finds that he still sins sometimes. I feel the same frustration, but when I see Paul humble enough to admit this and still go on doing his best, it inspires me to repent and then forgive myself like God forgives me so I can move on, a little wiser for the experience.
Christianity is about sun worship, the stories about Jesus are symbolic. He is just a personification of the sun. The sun "dies" for 3 days on December 22nd, the winter solstice, when it stops its movement south, to be born again or resurrected on December 25th, when it resumes its movement north. In some areas, the calendar originally began in the constellation of Virgo, and the sun would therefore be "born of a Virgin" The sun rising in the morning is "the saviour of mankind" The sun "walks on water" is just the reflection of the sun on water/the sea. "He cometh in the clouds" is just sun rays. The sun's "followers", "helpers" or "disciples" are the 12 months and the 12 signs of the zodiac or constellations, through which the sun must pass. The sun at 12 noon is in the house or temple of the "Most High": thus.."he" begins "his Father's work" at "age" 12. The sun enters into each sign of the zodiac at 30 degrees, hense, the "Sun of God" begins his ministry at "age" 30. The sun is hung on a cross or "crucified", which represents its passing through the equinoxes. The vernal equinox being Easter, at which time it is then resurrected. The reason why saviour myths are so similar with a godman who is crucified and resurrected, who does miracles and has 12 disciples, is that these stories were based on the movements of the sun through the heavens, an astrotheological development that can be found throughout the planet, because the sun and the 12 zodiac signs can be observed around the globe. In other words, Jesus Christ and all the others upon whom this character is predicated are personifications of the sun, and the Gospel fable is merely a rehash of a mythological formula revolving around the movements of the sun through the heavens..
@@Gamefan86 not here to argue but it is a much greater myth to say there is no God, we are not sinners, and we are all just a by-product of chance. Various non-Christian historians have already testified of Jesus' existence and crucifixion as well. What's left is for man to repent and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and trust Him for salvation.
Agreed. Romans 7 exposes the problem but Romans 8, the solution!!!! There is no condemnation of he who is "In Christ Jesus" because the Spirit of Life in Christ has freed us from the law of sin and death. Paul identifies "a law of sin in our members" (our flesh) but the real you, The Spirit Man, is In Christ by faith!!!!
@@markhaney2884 your comment is 8 months old but I hope you’ll answer me. This is the exact same revelation I got from my beginning of being saved. Now after a long time living in this truth and experiencing it, I see famous Pastors like Andrew Wommack that I trusted teach that Romans 7 is not for a believer and that we actually don’t have flesh anymore we only have the mortal body without the law of sin. And not even he says it, there are plenty of famous teachers teaching this. I didn’t know this was a debate among Christians, I thought it is crystal clear that this is meant for us believers. No I’m in doubt and don’t know what to do
My interpretation of Romans 7, from verse 13 onwards is that he speaks not from a specifically personal experience but a more general one, as a kind of hypothetical situation of a Christian wanting to live according to God apart from the Spirit. I think this purpose of this passage is to show the inability of the law to help us against sin. He speaks of two laws at work in him, the law in his mind and the law of sin at work in his flesh, and how they relate to the law of God. Apart from external help, even if we acknowledge the law as good with our minds, and agree with it we are powerless to actually live in accord with it because of the law of sin at work in our flesh. To know what is right but not have the power to carry it out is a wretched position (Romans 7:24). This is why he end with the question "Who will deliver me from this body of death?" and the answer is God through Jesus by the Spirit. Romans 7:25b sums up the inability of Christians to conquer sin in ourselves, hence saying "I myself", which I take as "I by myself" or "on my own apart from God's help". He then explains in chapter 8 the God has done what the law could not do. The law gives us knowledge of what is right but not the power to carry it out (7:18). We need a new law. He then speaks of the new "law of the Spirit of life" that dwells in all believers that gives life to our mortal bodies by whom we are able to put to death the deeds of the flesh. Of course we wrestle with sin, but we have the hope and confidence that we can win because God is working in us if we are in Christ. So I think the experience of a believer is Romans 8 rather than 7. Romans 7 shows the hopeless prospect of trying to live pleasing to God without the renewal of the Spirit, rather than personal experience. I would be interested if anyone has thoughts on this view.
I like this viewpoint! I'd be inclined to agree up until what the new law is. It seems to me that we want to serve the law but don't have the power to carry it out, so we need a new law. But the new law is not the power to now fufill the law perfectly at its core, the new law at it's core is that Jesus has fulfilled the law on our behalf and now offers His life as a substitute for any who trust in Him and walk by His Spirit. “For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.” Romans 8:3-4 I then believe that this would connect Romans 7-8 as the same person, because, therefore, there's now no condemnation for this person, if they are in Jesus Christ.
Christianity is about sun worship, the stories about Jesus are symbolic. He is just a personification of the sun. The sun "dies" for 3 days on December 22nd, the winter solstice, when it stops its movement south, to be born again or resurrected on December 25th, when it resumes its movement north. In some areas, the calendar originally began in the constellation of Virgo, and the sun would therefore be "born of a Virgin" The sun rising in the morning is "the saviour of mankind" The sun "walks on water" is just the reflection of the sun on water/the sea. "He cometh in the clouds" is just sun rays. The sun's "followers", "helpers" or "disciples" are the 12 months and the 12 signs of the zodiac or constellations, through which the sun must pass. The sun at 12 noon is in the house or temple of the "Most High": thus.."he" begins "his Father's work" at "age" 12. The sun enters into each sign of the zodiac at 30 degrees, hense, the "Sun of God" begins his ministry at "age" 30. The sun is hung on a cross or "crucified", which represents its passing through the equinoxes. The vernal equinox being Easter, at which time it is then resurrected. The reason why saviour myths are so similar with a godman who is crucified and resurrected, who does miracles and has 12 disciples, is that these stories were based on the movements of the sun through the heavens, an astrotheological development that can be found throughout the planet, because the sun and the 12 zodiac signs can be observed around the globe. In other words, Jesus Christ and all the others upon whom this character is predicated are personifications of the sun, and the Gospel fable is merely a rehash of a mythological formula revolving around the movements of the sun through the heavens..
I agree. My pastor taught this, I agreed with much of what he said, I just didn't see it for myself. Until when I was sitting on a bus reading the text and I really wanted to see what there was to see, the spirit gave me enlightenment and understanding and I got it! Romans 6 he is free, Romans 7 14- is a man under law, Romans 8 he is free.
I was going to say the same thing. Paul says we're dead to the law so that we can serve in a new way of the Spirit. The character described in the conflict instead delights in the law, something that should no longer be relevant, and fails to show any understanding of the Spirit. The result is always failure."No condemnation" in Rom 8 refers not to forgiveness of sin but deliverance from the power of sin (as in Rom 6.6) to which those in Adam have been condemned. I think that in principle it can apply to both an unbeliever and a believer - whoever tries to live up to God's expectation by following moral rules. Rules have power to condemn us for failing but not to enable us to obey them. In the context of the church of Rome at the time, though, the main area of application is believers, in particular Jewish Christians who insisted that obeying God involved keeping the law of Moses.
I agree with this view described here; we are in practice able not to sin, but yet we still sin; 1 John says that if we claim not to sin, we lie and truth not in us; yes we fail but we must fight by the Spirit against the easily entangling sin the surrounds us, fixing our eyes and minds upon our Lord Jesus, who helps us out of every temptation, who forgives us all our sins; how great and merciful is our Lord
Interesting indeed, thank you again for a great start to my day. I'm appreciative that he denotes it not being a "friend breaking" type issue as numerous scriptures can be applied to both areas it seems. The Lord is great like that, it's almost like we need one precept in order to understand the other many times. God be with you in your journey, growing up in Christ always.
Christianity is about sun worship, the stories about Jesus are symbolic. He is just a personification of the sun. The sun "dies" for 3 days on December 22nd, the winter solstice, when it stops its movement south, to be born again or resurrected on December 25th, when it resumes its movement north. In some areas, the calendar originally began in the constellation of Virgo, and the sun would therefore be "born of a Virgin" The sun rising in the morning is "the saviour of mankind" The sun "walks on water" is just the reflection of the sun on water/the sea. "He cometh in the clouds" is just sun rays. The sun's "followers", "helpers" or "disciples" are the 12 months and the 12 signs of the zodiac or constellations, through which the sun must pass. The sun at 12 noon is in the house or temple of the "Most High": thus.."he" begins "his Father's work" at "age" 12. The sun enters into each sign of the zodiac at 30 degrees, hense, the "Sun of God" begins his ministry at "age" 30. The sun is hung on a cross or "crucified", which represents its passing through the equinoxes. The vernal equinox being Easter, at which time it is then resurrected. The reason why saviour myths are so similar with a godman who is crucified and resurrected, who does miracles and has 12 disciples, is that these stories were based on the movements of the sun through the heavens, an astrotheological development that can be found throughout the planet, because the sun and the 12 zodiac signs can be observed around the globe. In other words, Jesus Christ and all the others upon whom this character is predicated are personifications of the sun, and the Gospel fable is merely a rehash of a mythological formula revolving around the movements of the sun through the heavens..
So then why does he write in 6:18 "Now you are free from your slavery to sin" if he is going to go on to describe himself as a Christian in 7 :25 as "a slave to sin"? He can't be slave to both, right?
That is why the people of God cannot stand before their enemies, which are the world, the flesh and the devil, because of covetesness which is idolatry. Joshua 7:11-12, 20-21. So Paul reminds us to walk after the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh, Galatians 5:16. 1st John 5:21 says to believers, keep yourselves from idols. Pray always and watch in the time of tribulaciones lest you fall into sin. Rid yourselves from the love of money, love of rich clothes and rich foods. Watch how you eat and drink, what you wear and how you spend you money. If you dont deny yourself, you will deny Christ. If you dont take up your cross, die to self, then you are not obeying the Lord. God promises deliverance from the slavery of sin, when you cry out to Him, see Exodus 3:7-9. So when you are tempted, pray!! You can do nothing by your own strength!! God gives grace that you may overcome while you walk in obedience to His will!
I was never before aware that some draw a conclusion that believes chapter 7 to be the experience of Saul, the preregenerate man. I've found that the most natural reading of any text of scripture, taken in context, is usually the correct interpretation, albeit that there can be many varied applications of a singular truth a passage reveals. This text of Romans 7 has long been a comfort in knowing I'm not alone in my struggle against the flesh. However, there's also a danger here in using this chapter as an excuse to indulge, or satiate a fleshly desire. But for me, knowing that possibly the most sanctified Christian in the body (Paul)...that he too is still waging war against the flesh, and sometimes gives in to it and sins. Praise God for 1st John 1:9. Though we as the redeemed are not always faithful, God remains faithful and has the right to forgive and cleanse us as we mourn and weep over those failures and confess them. Perfectionism, I believe, is a dangerous heresy; what could produce sinful pride more than that? My lack of normative education, through organizationaI degree proffering universities, I think, is a blessing--haven't been educated into imbecility. And it's a curse in so far as being not being accepted by others as edumacated (that's a bit of humor). I discover all the assigned reading for whatever degree one would need for whatever ministry, and I study it myself, and I listen to those who have doctorates of theology, often even making their university lectures available on TH-cam. Example: this video, Dr. R.C. Sproul's lectures, etc..
People don't understand the dual natures of a saved person. There are three enemies for those who are members of the Body of Christ... The World The Flesh And the Devil The flesh is our enemy. As long as we are not in a glorified body, the flesh remains our enemy. In the flesh dwells sin. The flesh can not cease to sin...even if we will it. All sin was conquered by Jesus Christ on the cross....therefore sin has no dominion over us. That does not mean we can cease to sin or that sin is no longer found in the flesh. Sin no longer has the power to condemn a person to Hell...even sin from an unbeliever. Sin no longer has any power to send someone to Hell. So why do unbelievers still go to Hell? Because an unrighteous person can not go to Heaven. We, as members of the Body of Christ, have Christ's imputed righteousness added to us when we first believed. Whether someone is righteous or not determines whether they go to Heaven or Hell.....and there is no one who is righteous of themselves, except Jesus. The war between the spirit and the flesh will continue until the day we receive glorified bodies at the Rapture of the Body of Christ, whom we believe, are members.
It seems that Romans 7 has not been considered in the light of who Paul is addressing, 'to them that know the law.' He has been developing a theme throughout the preceding chapters and is reinforcing Romans 6 by digressing into a forensic analysis of how the law reveals the exceeding sinfulness in man. Although Paul appears to be talking in the present, he is not, he is talking about himself as a man under the law held in bondage by the law. Romans 7 emphasises the limitations of the old law which leads Paul onto Romans 8 to describe how there is a now a new law which is liberty in Christ.
I never hear any comment on what I believe is the entire key verse of this passage.. actually the hinge on every verse of the entire Cannon of Scripture Romans 7:21.. 'I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good.' Every second of every day of this current existence we weigh in our own heart and mind what is good.. we all have our individuality to draw from. There are people all over this world who blow themselves up and take down others with them because 'they will to do good'.. In their zeal for their 'gods' they actually think they are doing good.. The Christian experience is identical.. we act as 'Eve' did on the very first day of sin and drag others into our world when pride fills the heart and we 'ACT' on what we 'believe' is good.. evil is present God hates pride.. in satan first and then new born christian but mostly the mature disciple of Christ.. we still continually 'do what is right in our own eyes' Roman's 8 is the antithesis to all that is 'good in our own eyes' because the Spirit Rules our vessel not our pride
Christianity is about sun worship, the stories about Jesus are symbolic. He is just a personification of the sun. The sun "dies" for 3 days on December 22nd, the winter solstice, when it stops its movement south, to be born again or resurrected on December 25th, when it resumes its movement north. In some areas, the calendar originally began in the constellation of Virgo, and the sun would therefore be "born of a Virgin" The sun rising in the morning is "the saviour of mankind" The sun "walks on water" is just the reflection of the sun on water/the sea. "He cometh in the clouds" is just sun rays. The sun's "followers", "helpers" or "disciples" are the 12 months and the 12 signs of the zodiac or constellations, through which the sun must pass. The sun at 12 noon is in the house or temple of the "Most High": thus.."he" begins "his Father's work" at "age" 12. The sun enters into each sign of the zodiac at 30 degrees, hense, the "Sun of God" begins his ministry at "age" 30. The sun is hung on a cross or "crucified", which represents its passing through the equinoxes. The vernal equinox being Easter, at which time it is then resurrected. The reason why saviour myths are so similar with a godman who is crucified and resurrected, who does miracles and has 12 disciples, is that these stories were based on the movements of the sun through the heavens, an astrotheological development that can be found throughout the planet, because the sun and the 12 zodiac signs can be observed around the globe. In other words, Jesus Christ and all the others upon whom this character is predicated are personifications of the sun, and the Gospel fable is merely a rehash of a mythological formula revolving around the movements of the sun through the heavens..
@@Gamefan86 lol.. 'SON' WORSHIP.. ONLY.. Nothing Less..Nothing More.. Nothing Else!! find someone else to convince but I suggest you Repent.. but only if the Wind Blows that way..
Romans 20: Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. Still inside a sinful corruptible body But does not mean we can sin willfully again and again but repent and finish the race strong. Hebrews 10:25 says :See that you do not refuse him who is speaking. For if they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, much less will we escape if we reject him who warns from heaven.
Wow. Had no clue people debated this. Read it in context and it’s pretty clear what Piper is saying. The number of Christians who think they are without sin after being saved is truely scary. Most of us sin a dozen times before we get out of bed in the morning.
Doug Moo has written one of the finest commentaries on the Book of Romans. Moo asserts that Rom 7:14-25 is Paul's pre-Christian experience. I agree with John Piper's view. When we get to heaven, we can ask Paul. Of course, it won't matter then.
Or possibly Paul describing any Jew under the Law trying to keep it in a self-righteous manor. Either way with all of the surrounding context of Romans it doesn’t seem to lead to mean the Christian experience battling sin.
These verses kinda relates to why some people may still struggle with certain sins. A demon has put sin in our flesh, we may pray to God to get rid of it, but it won’t go away. The devil meant it for evil, but God used it for good, so we won’t become puffed up/conceited. God’s power is perfect in weakness. 2 Corinthians 12:7-10 So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited. Three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that it should leave me. But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong.
What I don’t understand then is: how come he also says we do not fight against flesh and blood, if we indeed have an ongoing battle with our flesh? How come Jesus says we should tear out our eye if it leads us to sin? And why does he tell the adulteress to go and not sin any more (as if that was possible) ? How come the armor of God is only equipped to fend off attacks from the outside? (Not also to the inside if our struggle is coming from within) I have more questions than answers tbh…
Our main battle is with the world and the devil because Jesus has already saved our souls , if we believe in Him. But the devil will try to make us believe lies such as that we have to follow the law or that God can’t save us.
Romans 7 ends with a concluding statement, exactly as Romans 7 started in verse one. He started out chapter 7 with an analogy of marriage, explaining why we are now released from the law, and have been United to Christ so that we can bear fruit to God. He ends Romans 7 with a coinciding statement, “So then, with my mind I am enslaved to the law of God, and with my flesh, the law of sin.” Look it up in the Greek. The word “serve” is interpreted as slavery every where it is used in the New Testament. We aren’t supposed to be enslaved to the law. We aren’t supposed to serve God that way.
John Piper, " My view is". Not what Gods interpretation is, he is saying, what I believe the Holy Spirit is trying to say through the Apostle Paul is this. God never gave anyone the right or authority to interpret what he means. 2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. ---- Both interpretations that John mentioned are mans interpretation, not Gods.
You mustn't lose track of the purpose of the letter. It was to a church where there was friction between Jewish and gentile believers. The gentiles did not have the law of Moses, but the Jews did and thought that following it was essential to the Christian life. In the letter, Paul explained that Jews are no better than gentiles, that we are justified through faith in Christ and not through the law, and that obedience to God is no longer by keeping the law but a new way. In Rom 7, Paul says we're dead to the law so that we can serve in the new way of the Spirit. But the character described in the conflict instead does not see themselves as dead to the law - he delights in the law, something that should no longer be relevant to him. He fails to show any understanding of the new way of the Spirit. The result is always failure. It's unlike the conflict in Galatians between the flesh and the Spirit where sometimes you succeed, sometimes you fail. In Rom 7, the character always fails, because they are relying on moral rules. But rules can only condemn those who fail to keep them, not enable obedience. In principle it can apply to both an unbeliever and a believer - whoever tries to live up to God's expectation by following moral rules. In the context of the church of Rome at the time, though, the focus is neither the pre-Christian Saul nor the apostle Paul. It is Jewish believers who really did want to obey God but insisted that obeying God involved keeping the law of Moses.
No no you need to read the whole chapter this is before he was a Believer, read it very well he was mentioning he does the things he does not want to do but he doesn't do the things that he should do, but if you go down later on he says who can save this wicked man then he says the Lord does and then he explains after that all the things that the Lord does for him and that gives him a new heart and help some change he doesn't do these things anymore!!!
Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? Rom 7:2 For the woman (The Believer) which hath an husband (Sin) is bound by the law to her husband so long as he (Sin) liveth; but if the husband (Sin) be dead, she (The Believer) is loosed from the law of her husband (Sin). Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband (Sin) liveth, she (The Believer) be married to another man (Jesus), she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband (Sin) be dead, she (The Believer) is free from that law (Law of sin and death); so that she (The Believer) is no adulteress, though she be married to another man (Jesus). Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law (The Law of Sin) by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another (Jesus), even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God (Obedience to the Law). Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death (Law of Sin and death). Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law (Law of Sin and Death), that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit (Law of God through the teachings of Jesus), and not in the oldness of the letter (Without understanding). Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead (Without knowing the law you can’t know sin). Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived (Sin came alive unto us after we became aware of the law), and I died (This is the law of sin and death). Rom 7:10 And the commandment (The Law), which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death (Again the law of sin and death, and the reason we all need a Savior). Rom 7:11 For sin (Deception of sin, and not the law), taking occasion by the commandment (The Law), deceived me, and by it slew me (Unable to perfectly keep the law, and again a reason why we need a Savior). Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good (The Law) made death (The Law) unto me? God forbid. But sin (Sin should be made death unto us), that it might appear sin, working death in me (Alive unto the law of God) by that which is good (The Law); that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual (Can only be accomplished in us by His Spirit): but I am carnal, sold under sin. Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I (Again, the whole reason why we need a Savior). Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not (Which is to obey the law of God), I consent unto the law that it is good. Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not (Can only be accomplished by His Spirit). Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. Rom 7:21 I find then a law (Law of sin and death), that, when I would do good (Obey God’s law), evil is present with me (Still in the flesh, and needing a Savior). Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God (His Spirit in me) after the inward man: Rom 7:23 But I see another law (God’s law) in my members, warring against the law (Law of sin and death) of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members (Our flesh). Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind (My understanding) I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. Psa 19:8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes. Psa 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether. Psa 19:10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb. Psa 19:11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
The text follows an ABA pattern evident in the pronouns the text employs. Rom 7.1-6 (we, us, you), Rom 7.7-25 (I, me), Rom 8.1f (those, you, us). One thing Rom 7.7-25 does not do is say or infer to the audience that this is their experience. The language is descriptive, not prescriptive. Imagine having the text read aloud to you... the sheer number of 'I''s spoken should make it very clear the speaker is not speaking about the audience, only his own experience. Its a rhetorical device.
I disagree with this. Because I am not a slave to sin. I have been redeemed. I belong to Jesus. Romans 7 is about the unregenerate person. Romans 8 is about the regenerate person.
@@EmmaBerger-ov9ni I disagree. Romans 7 is NOT written in the past tense. Further, we know we are no longer slaves to sin and regenerated when we recognize that we do sin and then no longer wish to do so.
@@EmmaBerger-ov9ni It seems that Romans 7 has not been considered in the light of who Paul is addressing, 'to them that know the law.' He has been developing a theme throughout the preceding chapters and is reinforcing Romans 6 by digressing into a forensic analysis of how the law reveals the exceeding sinfulness in man. Although Paul appears to be talking in the present, he is not, he is talking about himself as a man under the law held in bondage by the law. Romans 7 emphasises the limitations of the old law which leads Paul onto Romans 8 to describe how there is a now a new law which is liberty in Christ.
I am not a slave to sin. I have been redeemed. I belong to Jesus. Romans 7 is about the unregenerate person. Romans 8 is about the regenerate person. Stop using Romans 7 as an excuse for your sin.
As just another brother I agree that this passage is typically taken out of context and I used to land pretty heavily that he cannot be talking about born again regenerate believers, but I don’t think that is accurate anymore. I think the problem is a lot of non Jewish Christians insert themselves as who Paul is addressing. But it is clear he is addressing Jewish brethren and I would say that he is addressing Jewish Christians and reminding them that their righteousness cannot be attained through the law because of their sinful nature. What they needed is God to give them a savior not the law for them to attain righteousness.
Exactly, he is saying why the law was not adequate and why we need the saving grace of Jesus Christ, and why Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit works to edify us; I am no longer dead in sin and I no longer look to the law. I looked to the law to know I was in need of a savior. He is walking people through the need, what it looks like to need a savior. I can’t believe Piper doesn’t see that.
@@Hoppieg it is really strange, MacArthur does the same thing. All of Romans 1-11, is pretty much explaining the same thing, righteousness through faith in Jesus and why righteousness cannot be obtained through the law. But for some strange reason so many excellent Bible teachers jump out of context here and their hermeneutic puts more weight on their personal experience and immediate verb tense. Plus they say, only a believer would love the law in their inner being. Which Is also, imo, missing the whole point that we now have Jesus instead of the law. We actually have the substance of the promise to love and delight in rather than the shadow, which they would likely agree with and say that is why we don't have to keep the sabbath. I am ok with the idea that Paul is talking about himself and believers post conversion , I disagree more with the conclusion and teaching that Paul is trying to convey a point about the believer's everyday struggle with sin in general. But, in the end the application is actually the same, which MacArthur did a nice job with preaching that we need to realize and own who we are now in Jesus to overcome our sinful passions. But there is something that gets missed with jumping straight to that application that Paul seems to be saying. It seems.like he is saying a downward spiral into deeper sin is actually rooted in trying to do what is right through the law according to the flesh rather than the Spirit which chapter 8 ends up being mostly about. Anyway, I enjoy this topic probably too much and have become a bit of a troll about it but I think it is at the theological center of all of Romans.
@@cutoats LOL at the “become a bit of troll,” - too funny… I really didn’t know this was a thing for people to be at theological odds over - until my Bible study this week. Oh man, as a new Biblical beliviever, did I learn quickly… But I only came to Romans, because of my study on Hebrews 3 - which is what really set my Bible study off, when I told the salvation was not secure for those who have not sully surrendered their lives to God - then someone decided to use Romans as an excuse for sin, rather than seeing Paul is describing the work of the Spirit and the process of sanctification, which, without explanation of anyone, and being led only by the spirit, seems quite obvious to me… Seems like Paul is doing nothing more than describing, for new believers, the thought process by which a person comes to the realization that they need a Savior because the law just is not going to do it, never can do it, and no matter how much effort you put it, it will never, ever tame the flesh, because it was merely meant to show the need for a savior and never meant to save to begin with. So then he explains how the Holy Spirit goes to work, once we surrender to Christ through faith. And that once free from sin, we no longer produce the fruits of sin, but rather, fruits of spirit and righteousness… It’s like his letter was the TH-cam of the day. It’s where new believers would have gone to seek answers. I just love Paul.
Study scripture it’s clearly about it as a believer. The problem is that you think you have no sin. If we say we have no sin we decive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
I believe that when The Book of Romans was written apostle Paul no longer struggled in sins. How would the wealth of spiritual wisdom and knowledge would be revealed by The Lord Jesus to the person who had kept in sinning and under the shackles of sin? In Romans 7, Paul highlighted his life as a Pharisee, before his life with Christ. He knew the law and the commandments are holy, righteous and good but he admitted he was unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. He wanted to obey the law but couldn't carry it out because he was under the bondage of sin. He concluded, he was a wretched man, who could free him from the power of sin ? Then he joyfully declared "Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!" Romans 8 emphasized that the Holy Spirit that gives life has set us free from the law of sin and death. Romans 8 showed that the Holy Spirit is in conflict with the flesh. Living under the Grace of the Lord Jesus is living in step with the Holy Spirit by living in the Teachings, Commands and the Words of the Lord Jesus. Only the Lord Jesus who is in harmony with the Holy Spirit can set us free from the power of sin. The Lord Jesus said "If you hold to My Teachings you are really My disciples, then you will know The Truth and The Truth will set you free. Whom the Son sets free is free indeed." The Lord Jesus said that "Whoever wants to be My disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow Me." Romans 6 is teaching us how to live in Christ by living dead to sin, dead to ourselves. We cannot have a new life in Christ if we keep on sinning. The sinful nature must be put to death by putting off our old selves and putting on the Righteousness of Christ. The proof that you are under the Grace of God, living in the Holy Spirit and dwelling in the Lord Jesus is your moment by moment obedience to the Teachings, Commands and Words of the Lord Jesus. The Lord Jesus said twice in The Book of Luke "But unless you repent you too will all perish. " The Lord Jesus said to the adulterer "Neither do I condemn you. Go now and leave your life of sin". The Lord Jesus said to the healed paralyzed in the temple " Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you" If you die as an evildoer, The Lord Jesus will tell you "Away from Me, you evildoer". Romans Chapter 7 was the sin struggle of the Pharisee named Saul before he became a Christian. Read Romans Chapter 6 and Romans Chapter 8 and you will find out that Romans Chapter 7 is a historical present of the old life of a pharisee living in the law. Romans Chapter 6 is about "dead to sin". Romans chapter 8 is about "The Holy Spirit freeing a believer from the power of sin". Historical present was always used by apostle Paul in the Epistles to convey the past in present tense to appeal more to the Greek-speaking people at that time. When The Holy Epistles were written by the Apostle Paul, he was no longer living or struggling in sin because The Lord Jesus would not give him deep Divine Revelations if apostle Paul was not walking in The Light. Apostle Paul wrote to the Thessalonians in 1 Thessalonians 2:10: You are witnesses, and so is God, of how holy, righteous and blameless we were among you who believed. So if apostle Paul was holy, righteous and blameless, how could he still be struggling in sin?
@RT-qz5ci I believe Paul was not living in sin and he was growing in His life of faith in Christ as his life and he was crucifying the flesh but his faith was the work of Christ as illustrated by Book of Acts and his epistles . In 1st Timothy 1:5 Paul said to Timothy The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. Paul's command to Timothy came from the (1)pure heart (2) good conscience (3) and sincere faith of Paul. Paul was not as perfect as Christ but he was living a life offering himself as slave and minister and apostle of Christ.
First of all he speaks about being married to Christ. Secondly when we go to Romans 6 He speaks about living for Christ. Look what he says about not being a commiter of sin, but is his flesh that sins against his nee will, that which is the Holy Spirit. Did he have the Holy Spirit as a devout Pharisees? Would a Pharisee ever admit to being a sinner? No, they exalted themsleves and could not see their sins. Just go to john 5 when Jesus healed the blind man, acused him of being a sinner from birth as if they had not. The flesh is the part of him that is sold under sin but his inner man is now in one with Christ's Spirit, as he is married to Christ. 1 Corinthians 6:16-17 (KJV) What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh. But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. Also, he says that he is warring within himself, as there are two separate and opposing members(desires) vying to gain his will. Go to Galatians 5:17 King James Version 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. He says in Romans 7:18 “For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.”
Paul identifies the problem in Romans 7, the law of sin in our flesh. But the solution in Romans 8, The Law of the Spirit of Life In Christ Jesus. The real you, the spirit man is In Christ by faith. That is the Gospel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Christianity is about sun worship, the stories about Jesus are symbolic. He is just a personification of the sun. The sun "dies" for 3 days on December 22nd, the winter solstice, when it stops its movement south, to be born again or resurrected on December 25th, when it resumes its movement north. In some areas, the calendar originally began in the constellation of Virgo, and the sun would therefore be "born of a Virgin" The sun rising in the morning is "the saviour of mankind" The sun "walks on water" is just the reflection of the sun on water/the sea. "He cometh in the clouds" is just sun rays. The sun's "followers", "helpers" or "disciples" are the 12 months and the 12 signs of the zodiac or constellations, through which the sun must pass. The sun at 12 noon is in the house or temple of the "Most High": thus.."he" begins "his Father's work" at "age" 12. The sun enters into each sign of the zodiac at 30 degrees, hense, the "Sun of God" begins his ministry at "age" 30. The sun is hung on a cross or "crucified", which represents its passing through the equinoxes. The vernal equinox being Easter, at which time it is then resurrected. The reason why saviour myths are so similar with a godman who is crucified and resurrected, who does miracles and has 12 disciples, is that these stories were based on the movements of the sun through the heavens, an astrotheological development that can be found throughout the planet, because the sun and the 12 zodiac signs can be observed around the globe. In other words, Jesus Christ and all the others upon whom this character is predicated are personifications of the sun, and the Gospel fable is merely a rehash of a mythological formula revolving around the movements of the sun through the heavens.. ..
@@Gamefan86 Creation testifies about its Creator. Stop looking towards God’s handiwork for your answers when you should look towards God himself. Jesus is NOT a personification of the sun. He is real. There were hundreds of eye witness accounts that describe a man who had resurrected from the dead with literal holes in his hands and feet! I pray that God may reveal Himself and the true meaning of His Gospel to you.
@@Gamefan86 your completely deceived by Satan. I pray you come out of your delusion and God grants you repentance and the revelation and knowledge of His only begotten Son. Hellfire awaits you if you die in your unbelief
How would you explain Romans 6? How many times does it say we are free from sin? Romans 8 also says we are not of the flesh but of the spirit! Kindly disagree with you brother.
I believe it means we are to be considered dead to sin, and in Christ we are free from death penalty Also Paul tells some believers in Christ to stop living as if they were still slaves to sin 1 cor 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame. God bless
Christianity is about sun worship, the stories about Jesus are symbolic. He is just a personification of the sun. The sun "dies" for 3 days on December 22nd, the winter solstice, when it stops its movement south, to be born again or resurrected on December 25th, when it resumes its movement north. In some areas, the calendar originally began in the constellation of Virgo, and the sun would therefore be "born of a Virgin" The sun rising in the morning is "the saviour of mankind" The sun "walks on water" is just the reflection of the sun on water/the sea. "He cometh in the clouds" is just sun rays. The sun's "followers", "helpers" or "disciples" are the 12 months and the 12 signs of the zodiac or constellations, through which the sun must pass. The sun at 12 noon is in the house or temple of the "Most High": thus.."he" begins "his Father's work" at "age" 12. The sun enters into each sign of the zodiac at 30 degrees, hense, the "Sun of God" begins his ministry at "age" 30. The sun is hung on a cross or "crucified", which represents its passing through the equinoxes. The vernal equinox being Easter, at which time it is then resurrected. The reason why saviour myths are so similar with a godman who is crucified and resurrected, who does miracles and has 12 disciples, is that these stories were based on the movements of the sun through the heavens, an astrotheological development that can be found throughout the planet, because the sun and the 12 zodiac signs can be observed around the globe. In other words, Jesus Christ and all the others upon whom this character is predicated are personifications of the sun, and the Gospel fable is merely a rehash of a mythological formula revolving around the movements of the sun through the heavens..
If he’s talking about his time as an unbeliever then he would’ve looked at the law and saw that he was murdering and torturing Christians. The law says you shall not murder. So why was Paul murdering Christians ? He came under the conviction of sin through the Holy Spirit. When he was a Jew there was no conviction of sin just a knowledge of sin. He was self righteous trying to keep the Torah.
Understand that if you are ever standing in the message of ‘feeling better about sin’ - your feet are firmly planted in the wrong message and you are not seeing the Bible clearly. The Bible WILL NEVER, EVER, make you feel better, or comfortable in your sin - ever! You have a misunderstanding of scripture here, Pastor Piper, complete misunderstanding. Paul is writing in the first person so that when a new believer reads 7+8, they will understand the process of repentance, forgiveness, surrender to Christ, and sanctification through the Holy Spirit. Paul is NOT writing about his feelings in the *present moment*. He is trying to relay this massive experience to the new believer, who has no idea what he is going through or what to expect through surrendering his life to Christ. There wasn’t TH-cam and a church on every corner back then. Look how often you get asked the same question, and now imagine living two thousand years ago, with no one to ask - Paul had to relay everything to them, and he knew there was no one else who could do it. That said, your translation is also not backed by other scripture, so your exegesis is incorrect and flawed. Hebrews, 1 John, Ephesians, and so many more… Ask the Holy Spirit to give you eyes to see and ears to hear, then read it again. ❤
Christianity is about sun worship, the stories about Jesus are symbolic. He is just a personification of the sun. The sun "dies" for 3 days on December 22nd, the winter solstice, when it stops its movement south, to be born again or resurrected on December 25th, when it resumes its movement north. In some areas, the calendar originally began in the constellation of Virgo, and the sun would therefore be "born of a Virgin" The sun rising in the morning is "the saviour of mankind" The sun "walks on water" is just the reflection of the sun on water/the sea. "He cometh in the clouds" is just sun rays. The sun's "followers", "helpers" or "disciples" are the 12 months and the 12 signs of the zodiac or constellations, through which the sun must pass. The sun at 12 noon is in the house or temple of the "Most High": thus.."he" begins "his Father's work" at "age" 12. The sun enters into each sign of the zodiac at 30 degrees, hense, the "Sun of God" begins his ministry at "age" 30. The sun is hung on a cross or "crucified", which represents its passing through the equinoxes. The vernal equinox being Easter, at which time it is then resurrected. The reason why saviour myths are so similar with a godman who is crucified and resurrected, who does miracles and has 12 disciples, is that these stories were based on the movements of the sun through the heavens, an astrotheological development that can be found throughout the planet, because the sun and the 12 zodiac signs can be observed around the globe. In other words, Jesus Christ and all the others upon whom this character is predicated are personifications of the sun, and the Gospel fable is merely a rehash of a mythological formula revolving around the movements of the sun through the heavens..
Romans 7 is Pauls predicament prior to being a Christian. Just read Rom 6 and 8 and it is clear he cannot be speaking of his experience as a believer. If he was speaking present tense then he would be a terrible example and a hypocrite.
Romans 7 is a carnal Christian. Apostle Paul talks about this in 1 Corinthians where he called them brethren but called them carnal because they still sin. Afterwards they became spiritual because they repented. This is when they became the Romans 8 Christian (spiritual). A carnal Christian struggles with sin. A spiritual Christian has been freed from sinning. The spiritual Christian (Romans 8) is born again.
"Does Romans 7 Describe a Christian?" Kind Sir...I mean NO disrespect towards you atoll...but I must espouse...considering what I just read...(Sorry for the Extremely long "comment". But I do believe it NEEDS to be said) I read every verses in Romans 7. And of course it was written by Paul; THE greatest messenger of the Gospel; there will ever be. May Jesus rest his precious soul. But (and now I am going to be hated for what I am about to say), Paul went all around his fist to get to his thumb. Where he could've sum-mated verses 1-25; into one verse. And that verse is # 25. And even there; he lost an awesome chance, to tell mostly Jews; "God IS Jesus; and The MOST important fact any one could ever learn. And...He is ALL any one needs; to sin less and have a joyful life. Regardless of the situation, from birth to death! Believe it or not". Sadly...almost every other writer of the bible did the same boring thing. Sad indeed. Making the bible; boring most of the time. Like Psalms: "Give us a break, David! We heard you loud and clear; and we got yuz; 125 verses ago!" HUH? "Come on brother! Come down from your pompous Kingly "Hot-dog"🌭demeanor. We Understand you now. So go on to someone else. We have heard enough to fill the universe! But we still luvz yuz!😍 Fortunately..."that" foolishness; was NOT inspired by Jesus, who IS God. Rather it was inspired by satan; making the writer egotistical and loving of his self 😇: walking around his hand to get to his thumb. (Now get your "flame throwers" Brethren; because I have me flame jacket on). LOL 😛 Thus, Jesus did NOT do that. Praise His Holy Name. Rather; He went fast: right to the root of every thing. And He made it so easy; to NOT sin, and to love Him, to love others, and to give to others. ETC! But the greatest "easy" He told us was... John 3:16 I so loved this world, I will give of my self (in hell), AKA: "only begotten Son", that whosoever believes in me shall not perish in hell, but have everlasting life. ("THE most precious verse!")... And that is ALL it takes to be saved; from going to hell. Regardless of what 80% of the Christian world believes 😕. AND... Matthew 6:13 Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. Oops...that verse was NOT translated correctly 🥴. Thus... Matthew 6:13 And lead us not into satan's, constant temptational "desires" to make us sin, and deliver us from satan's evil👿. For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. And IF Paul; and any other writer; had preached just those two verses: EVERY person on this planet would have every incredible, Heavenly "tool": first....become saved first; and secondly, sin LESS; all of our days on earth. For it contains every thing a person needs; to please Jesus. Could I be wrong? ABSOLUTELY YES ! But all others could be wrong too... ...In any case Brethren Please Pray OFTEN and Praise Jesus OFTEN; for He is the ONLY true "God Almighty"; there will ever have been. And may Jesus bless you and yours always. AMEN!
Dude, if this is your opinion on scripture - you have serious problems you need to think through. If you deny a majority of the Bible as God’s word spoken of through men by God, and you think it was only by man - that is a very dangerous place for someone to be in. The Bible teaches throughout that scripture is God-breathed, and the way that we get that scripture is by men moved by the Holy Spirit writing what God sovereignty willed to be written. And so when we have these passages of scripture written by David and Paul and Peter that you just mocked and invalidated as merely annoying men writing boring things - you just mocked and invalidated what God himself wrote through the actions of those men. If I could speculate further, it seems that a lot of people who want to take the name of Christ but deny the authority and inspiration of the rest of scripture - do so in order to live according to their desires, not according to God’s. The only reason someone would want to deny scriptures authority is because they know it commands them not do live how they want to live, or to live how they don’t want to live. If that is you, then you need to repent of your stubbornness against God, and repent of your unbelief in his word, and repent of your foolish understanding of his word. Almost everything you said showed a complete misunderstanding of God’s word. That should terrify you man. I say this harshly not to sound rude, but because you seem to need a rude awakening out of the mindset that you have.
@@Josh-he7ty "So we agree to disagree!". Now you said what you believe; and I said what I believe. So, I admit: that I could be dead wrong. So could you; and all others be dead wrong. For ONLY Jesus (Who IS God) is "Inerrant and Infallible"! And that goes to EVERY writer in any bible. Thus: I shant say any thing else of my beliefs, because you did not accept; nor like my message; which I truly believe: the Holy Spirit spoke that comment through my voice. So... Matthew 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. And I sincerely John Dillon (with true Christian love, I say): may Jesus bless you and yours always.
@@Josh-he7ty Sir, your words about "pat dee" couldn't be MORE wrong (no disrespect intended). I was led (by the Holy Spirit of Jesus) to this man (almost 12 years ago); when he hosted a Christian chat room online. I was in a bad place in my life. I won't bore you with gory details. I'll just say that it wasn't good. I got Born-Again; because of the Holy Spirit working through pat dee. I've also had my life greatly improved; because of what the Holy Spirit lead him to say to me. Now, don't get me wrong. I give ALL the credit to Jesus. But, my point is this: IF this man was not being led by The Holy Spirit; to say the things he says; there is no way I would be where I am. For NO "wicked" spirit could do what he has done for me! So, you may attack his belief; that the Bible is not ALL-inspired; but I KNOW better. And may Jesus have mercy on you; for saying such offensive things to this "Anointed" individual; and for utterly "watering down" the Infinite Power of the Holy Spirit of Jesus! 'Nuff said. Believe as you wish, Brother in Jesus.
How refreshing to see something besides the typical "Saul the unbeliever vs. Paul the believer" debate, thank you Jaiden Muschett! I believe that Paul is constructing a long, many-pronged argument, beginning perhaps as early as 5:12, regarding "sin/flesh/law/death" versus "gift of righteousness/Spirit/obedience/life", and that it builds to a crescendo of inner conflict and wretchedness by the end of chapter 7, to set the stage for the clouds to part and reveal God's answer in Chapter 8.
I am convinced that the "wretched man" of 7:14-24 is neither Paul describing his current state, nor Paul describing his pre-Christian state, but rather he is taking on the persona of someone who has the Law, and has enough light to love the Law, but does not possess the Spirit as the enabler. (Cornelius comes to mind).
Why do I take this view? Consider 7:14 for starters. How can the man who wrote Chapter 8 EVER sincerely state verse 7:14 to describe the condition of his life?
Also consider that verses 7:15-25 contain NO mention of the Spirit.
The man who wrote 7:4 is not the man of 7:14-24, who is only bearing fruit for death. I could go on and on...
But while I believe 7:14-24 is not Paul's description of himself, I'm not saying that it is never the state of a professing "born again" believer; it can be.!
Paul' description of God's solution in chapter 8 applies to those "who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit", and verses 8:5-14 describe the choice that a believer faces, to set his/her mind on the Spirit or on the Flesh. We see one example of the latter category often in the church, those who cleave to and defend keeping the Ten Commandments and who would gut verses like 7:4, arguing that only the ceremonial requirements of the law were abolished, that our death to the Law goes no deeper than that.
(John Piper replies effectively to this; in his answer to the question, "how can God be 100% for me", his answer is to abandon all law-keeping in favor of reliance on the Spirit.)
So, in conclusion, the real issue of Romans 7 is not "which Paul?", but "which walk; Spirit or flesh?". The former is Life, the latter is death. Seek the Spirit, yield to the Spirit, pray in the Spirit, earnestly desire His greater gifts (1 Cor 12:31), and read Galatians. Amen!
God is merciful. He always forgives. Never be ashamed to take your failures to him. He is for you, not against you! God is with you in the storm. He knows your troubles, he hears you! He is for you, on your side, always! It may feel silent at times, but he’s holding you close! May the Lord return soon! We are drawing closer. He is coming! Believe and trust in the Lord, you will be saved. Period. May the Lord bless you all! Hang in there family. Stay strong. It is not easy following the Lord. We are scoffed at. We give up our earthly dreams, our fleshly desires. What the enemy offers is short lived, but heaven is forever! Life may seem or be unfair, but God is with you! Always remember that. Things may get better or worse for you, but a kingdom awaits you! Finish the race! Repent daily and carry your cross. This world is fading fast. Your troubles are temporary! New channel here, I’d appreciate any kind of support. Don’t give up! God loves you so much! So do I. The Lord bless you!
Great response. Remember all you said apples to you too❤️❤️
Christianity is about sun worship, the stories about Jesus are symbolic.
He is just a personification of the sun.
The sun "dies" for 3 days on December 22nd, the winter solstice, when it stops its movement south, to be born again or resurrected on December 25th, when it resumes its movement north.
In some areas, the calendar originally began in the constellation of Virgo, and the sun would therefore be "born of a Virgin"
The sun rising in the morning is "the saviour of mankind"
The sun "walks on water" is just the reflection of the sun on water/the sea.
"He cometh in the clouds" is just sun rays.
The sun's "followers", "helpers" or "disciples" are the 12 months and the 12 signs of the zodiac or constellations, through which the sun must pass.
The sun at 12 noon is in the house or temple of the "Most High": thus.."he" begins "his Father's work" at "age" 12.
The sun enters into each sign of the zodiac at 30 degrees, hense, the "Sun of God" begins his ministry at "age" 30.
The sun is hung on a cross or "crucified", which represents its passing through the equinoxes.
The vernal equinox being Easter, at which time it is then resurrected.
The reason why saviour myths are so similar with a godman who is crucified and resurrected, who does miracles and has 12 disciples, is that these stories were based on the movements of the sun through the heavens, an astrotheological development that can be found throughout the planet, because the sun and the 12 zodiac signs can be observed around the globe.
In other words, Jesus Christ and all the others upon whom this character is predicated are personifications of the sun, and the Gospel fable is merely a rehash of a mythological formula revolving around the movements of the sun through the heavens..
@@Gamefan86you watch Zeitgeist: The Movie too much.
@@Gamefan86 a little far fetched bro there are documents and manuscripts of who Jesus is
I think this is one of the most reassuring verses Paul wrote. He is fully committed to doing everything a Christian should and yet he finds that he still sins sometimes. I feel the same frustration, but when I see Paul humble enough to admit this and still go on doing his best, it inspires me to repent and then forgive myself like God forgives me so I can move on, a little wiser for the experience.
Christianity is about sun worship, the stories about Jesus are symbolic.
He is just a personification of the sun.
The sun "dies" for 3 days on December 22nd, the winter solstice, when it stops its movement south, to be born again or resurrected on December 25th, when it resumes its movement north.
In some areas, the calendar originally began in the constellation of Virgo, and the sun would therefore be "born of a Virgin"
The sun rising in the morning is "the saviour of mankind"
The sun "walks on water" is just the reflection of the sun on water/the sea.
"He cometh in the clouds" is just sun rays.
The sun's "followers", "helpers" or "disciples" are the 12 months and the 12 signs of the zodiac or constellations, through which the sun must pass.
The sun at 12 noon is in the house or temple of the "Most High": thus.."he" begins "his Father's work" at "age" 12.
The sun enters into each sign of the zodiac at 30 degrees, hense, the "Sun of God" begins his ministry at "age" 30.
The sun is hung on a cross or "crucified", which represents its passing through the equinoxes.
The vernal equinox being Easter, at which time it is then resurrected.
The reason why saviour myths are so similar with a godman who is crucified and resurrected, who does miracles and has 12 disciples, is that these stories were based on the movements of the sun through the heavens, an astrotheological development that can be found throughout the planet, because the sun and the 12 zodiac signs can be observed around the globe.
In other words, Jesus Christ and all the others upon whom this character is predicated are personifications of the sun, and the Gospel fable is merely a rehash of a mythological formula revolving around the movements of the sun through the heavens..
@@Gamefan86 not here to argue but it is a much greater myth to say there is no God, we are not sinners, and we are all just a by-product of chance. Various non-Christian historians have already testified of Jesus' existence and crucifixion as well. What's left is for man to repent and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and trust Him for salvation.
Agreed. Romans 7 exposes the problem but Romans 8, the solution!!!! There is no condemnation of he who is "In Christ Jesus" because the Spirit of Life in Christ has freed us from the law of sin and death. Paul identifies "a law of sin in our members" (our flesh) but the real you, The Spirit Man, is In Christ by faith!!!!
@@Gamefan86 all love but Jesus is Lord and everything that points to the diety of Him is true. Have a good day👍🏼
@@markhaney2884 your comment is 8 months old but I hope you’ll answer me. This is the exact same revelation I got from my beginning of being saved. Now after a long time living in this truth and experiencing it, I see famous Pastors like Andrew Wommack that I trusted teach that Romans 7 is not for a believer and that we actually don’t have flesh anymore we only have the mortal body without the law of sin. And not even he says it, there are plenty of famous teachers teaching this. I didn’t know this was a debate among Christians, I thought it is crystal clear that this is meant for us believers. No I’m in doubt and don’t know what to do
My interpretation of Romans 7, from verse 13 onwards is that he speaks not from a specifically personal experience but a more general one, as a kind of hypothetical situation of a Christian wanting to live according to God apart from the Spirit. I think this purpose of this passage is to show the inability of the law to help us against sin.
He speaks of two laws at work in him, the law in his mind and the law of sin at work in his flesh, and how they relate to the law of God. Apart from external help, even if we acknowledge the law as good with our minds, and agree with it we are powerless to actually live in accord with it because of the law of sin at work in our flesh. To know what is right but not have the power to carry it out is a wretched position (Romans 7:24). This is why he end with the question "Who will deliver me from this body of death?" and the answer is God through Jesus by the Spirit. Romans 7:25b sums up the inability of Christians to conquer sin in ourselves, hence saying "I myself", which I take as "I by myself" or "on my own apart from God's help".
He then explains in chapter 8 the God has done what the law could not do. The law gives us knowledge of what is right but not the power to carry it out (7:18). We need a new law. He then speaks of the new "law of the Spirit of life" that dwells in all believers that gives life to our mortal bodies by whom we are able to put to death the deeds of the flesh. Of course we wrestle with sin, but we have the hope and confidence that we can win because God is working in us if we are in Christ.
So I think the experience of a believer is Romans 8 rather than 7. Romans 7 shows the hopeless prospect of trying to live pleasing to God without the renewal of the Spirit, rather than personal experience.
I would be interested if anyone has thoughts on this view.
I like this viewpoint! I'd be inclined to agree up until what the new law is. It seems to me that we want to serve the law but don't have the power to carry it out, so we need a new law. But the new law is not the power to now fufill the law perfectly at its core, the new law at it's core is that Jesus has fulfilled the law on our behalf and now offers His life as a substitute for any who trust in Him and walk by His Spirit.
“For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.”
Romans 8:3-4
I then believe that this would connect Romans 7-8 as the same person, because, therefore, there's now no condemnation for this person, if they are in Jesus Christ.
Christianity is about sun worship, the stories about Jesus are symbolic.
He is just a personification of the sun.
The sun "dies" for 3 days on December 22nd, the winter solstice, when it stops its movement south, to be born again or resurrected on December 25th, when it resumes its movement north.
In some areas, the calendar originally began in the constellation of Virgo, and the sun would therefore be "born of a Virgin"
The sun rising in the morning is "the saviour of mankind"
The sun "walks on water" is just the reflection of the sun on water/the sea.
"He cometh in the clouds" is just sun rays.
The sun's "followers", "helpers" or "disciples" are the 12 months and the 12 signs of the zodiac or constellations, through which the sun must pass.
The sun at 12 noon is in the house or temple of the "Most High": thus.."he" begins "his Father's work" at "age" 12.
The sun enters into each sign of the zodiac at 30 degrees, hense, the "Sun of God" begins his ministry at "age" 30.
The sun is hung on a cross or "crucified", which represents its passing through the equinoxes.
The vernal equinox being Easter, at which time it is then resurrected.
The reason why saviour myths are so similar with a godman who is crucified and resurrected, who does miracles and has 12 disciples, is that these stories were based on the movements of the sun through the heavens, an astrotheological development that can be found throughout the planet, because the sun and the 12 zodiac signs can be observed around the globe.
In other words, Jesus Christ and all the others upon whom this character is predicated are personifications of the sun, and the Gospel fable is merely a rehash of a mythological formula revolving around the movements of the sun through the heavens..
I agree. My pastor taught this, I agreed with much of what he said, I just didn't see it for myself. Until when I was sitting on a bus reading the text and I really wanted to see what there was to see, the spirit gave me enlightenment and understanding and I got it!
Romans 6 he is free, Romans 7 14- is a man under law, Romans 8 he is free.
I was going to say the same thing. Paul says we're dead to the law so that we can serve in a new way of the Spirit. The character described in the conflict instead delights in the law, something that should no longer be relevant, and fails to show any understanding of the Spirit. The result is always failure."No condemnation" in Rom 8 refers not to forgiveness of sin but deliverance from the power of sin (as in Rom 6.6) to which those in Adam have been condemned.
I think that in principle it can apply to both an unbeliever and a believer - whoever tries to live up to God's expectation by following moral rules. Rules have power to condemn us for failing but not to enable us to obey them. In the context of the church of Rome at the time, though, the main area of application is believers, in particular Jewish Christians who insisted that obeying God involved keeping the law of Moses.
@@MusicalRaichu Right!
I agree with this view described here; we are in practice able not to sin, but yet we still sin; 1 John says that if we claim not to sin, we lie and truth not in us; yes we fail but we must fight by the Spirit against the easily entangling sin the surrounds us, fixing our eyes and minds upon our Lord Jesus, who helps us out of every temptation, who forgives us all our sins; how great and merciful is our Lord
Interesting indeed, thank you again for a great start to my day. I'm appreciative that he denotes it not being a "friend breaking" type issue as numerous scriptures can be applied to both areas it seems. The Lord is great like that, it's almost like we need one precept in order to understand the other many times. God be with you in your journey, growing up in Christ always.
Christianity is about sun worship, the stories about Jesus are symbolic.
He is just a personification of the sun.
The sun "dies" for 3 days on December 22nd, the winter solstice, when it stops its movement south, to be born again or resurrected on December 25th, when it resumes its movement north.
In some areas, the calendar originally began in the constellation of Virgo, and the sun would therefore be "born of a Virgin"
The sun rising in the morning is "the saviour of mankind"
The sun "walks on water" is just the reflection of the sun on water/the sea.
"He cometh in the clouds" is just sun rays.
The sun's "followers", "helpers" or "disciples" are the 12 months and the 12 signs of the zodiac or constellations, through which the sun must pass.
The sun at 12 noon is in the house or temple of the "Most High": thus.."he" begins "his Father's work" at "age" 12.
The sun enters into each sign of the zodiac at 30 degrees, hense, the "Sun of God" begins his ministry at "age" 30.
The sun is hung on a cross or "crucified", which represents its passing through the equinoxes.
The vernal equinox being Easter, at which time it is then resurrected.
The reason why saviour myths are so similar with a godman who is crucified and resurrected, who does miracles and has 12 disciples, is that these stories were based on the movements of the sun through the heavens, an astrotheological development that can be found throughout the planet, because the sun and the 12 zodiac signs can be observed around the globe.
In other words, Jesus Christ and all the others upon whom this character is predicated are personifications of the sun, and the Gospel fable is merely a rehash of a mythological formula revolving around the movements of the sun through the heavens..
So then why does he write in 6:18 "Now you are free from your slavery to sin" if he is going to go on to describe himself as a Christian in 7 :25 as "a slave to sin"? He can't be slave to both, right?
That is why the people of God cannot stand before their enemies, which are the world, the flesh and the devil, because of covetesness which is idolatry. Joshua 7:11-12, 20-21. So Paul reminds us to walk after the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh, Galatians 5:16. 1st John 5:21 says to believers, keep yourselves from idols. Pray always and watch in the time of tribulaciones lest you fall into sin. Rid yourselves from the love of money, love of rich clothes and rich foods. Watch how you eat and drink, what you wear and how you spend you money. If you dont deny yourself, you will deny Christ. If you dont take up your cross, die to self, then you are not obeying the Lord. God promises deliverance from the slavery of sin, when you cry out to Him, see Exodus 3:7-9. So when you are tempted, pray!! You can do nothing by your own strength!! God gives grace that you may overcome while you walk in obedience to His will!
Amen
I was never before aware that some draw a conclusion that believes chapter 7 to be the experience of Saul, the preregenerate man. I've found that the most natural reading of any text of scripture, taken in context, is usually the correct interpretation, albeit that there can be many varied applications of a singular truth a passage reveals. This text of Romans 7 has long been a comfort in knowing I'm not alone in my struggle against the flesh. However, there's also a danger here in using this chapter as an excuse to indulge, or satiate a fleshly desire. But for me, knowing that possibly the most sanctified Christian in the body (Paul)...that he too is still waging war against the flesh, and sometimes gives in to it and sins. Praise God for 1st John 1:9. Though we as the redeemed are not always faithful, God remains faithful and has the right to forgive and cleanse us as we mourn and weep over those failures and confess them. Perfectionism, I believe, is a dangerous heresy; what could produce sinful pride more than that? My lack of normative education, through organizationaI degree proffering universities, I think, is a blessing--haven't been educated into imbecility. And it's a curse in so far as being not being accepted by others as edumacated (that's a bit of humor). I discover all the assigned reading for whatever degree one would need for whatever ministry, and I study it myself, and I listen to those who have doctorates of theology, often even making their university lectures available on TH-cam. Example: this video, Dr. R.C. Sproul's lectures, etc..
People don't understand the dual natures of a saved person.
There are three enemies for those who are members of the Body of Christ...
The World
The Flesh
And the Devil
The flesh is our enemy. As long as we are not in a glorified body, the flesh remains our enemy. In the flesh dwells sin. The flesh can not cease to sin...even if we will it.
All sin was conquered by Jesus Christ on the cross....therefore sin has no dominion over us. That does not mean we can cease to sin or that sin is no longer found in the flesh.
Sin no longer has the power to condemn a person to Hell...even sin from an unbeliever. Sin no longer has any power to send someone to Hell.
So why do unbelievers still go to Hell? Because an unrighteous person can not go to Heaven.
We, as members of the Body of Christ, have Christ's imputed righteousness added to us when we first believed.
Whether someone is righteous or not determines whether they go to Heaven or Hell.....and there is no one who is righteous of themselves, except Jesus.
The war between the spirit and the flesh will continue until the day we receive glorified bodies at the Rapture of the Body of Christ, whom we believe, are members.
Hey I got the same revelation. How come that famous teacher like Andrew Wommack teach the opposite? I trusted him and now I’m so confused.
It seems that Romans 7 has not been considered in the light of who Paul is addressing, 'to them that know the law.' He has been developing a theme throughout the preceding chapters and is reinforcing Romans 6 by digressing into a forensic analysis of how the law reveals the exceeding sinfulness in man. Although Paul appears to be talking in the present, he is not, he is talking about himself as a man under the law held in bondage by the law. Romans 7 emphasises the limitations of the old law which leads Paul onto Romans 8 to describe how there is a now a new law which is liberty in Christ.
I never hear any comment on what I believe is the entire key verse of this passage.. actually the hinge on every verse of the entire Cannon of Scripture
Romans 7:21.. 'I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good.'
Every second of every day of this current existence we weigh in our own heart and mind what is good.. we all have our individuality to draw from. There are people all over this world who blow themselves up and take down others with them because 'they will to do good'.. In their zeal for their 'gods' they actually think they are doing good..
The Christian experience is identical.. we act as 'Eve' did on the very first day of sin and drag others into our world when pride fills the heart and we 'ACT' on what we 'believe' is good.. evil is present
God hates pride.. in satan first and then new born christian but mostly the mature disciple of Christ.. we still continually 'do what is right in our own eyes'
Roman's 8 is the antithesis to all that is 'good in our own eyes' because the Spirit Rules our vessel not our pride
Christianity is about sun worship, the stories about Jesus are symbolic.
He is just a personification of the sun.
The sun "dies" for 3 days on December 22nd, the winter solstice, when it stops its movement south, to be born again or resurrected on December 25th, when it resumes its movement north.
In some areas, the calendar originally began in the constellation of Virgo, and the sun would therefore be "born of a Virgin"
The sun rising in the morning is "the saviour of mankind"
The sun "walks on water" is just the reflection of the sun on water/the sea.
"He cometh in the clouds" is just sun rays.
The sun's "followers", "helpers" or "disciples" are the 12 months and the 12 signs of the zodiac or constellations, through which the sun must pass.
The sun at 12 noon is in the house or temple of the "Most High": thus.."he" begins "his Father's work" at "age" 12.
The sun enters into each sign of the zodiac at 30 degrees, hense, the "Sun of God" begins his ministry at "age" 30.
The sun is hung on a cross or "crucified", which represents its passing through the equinoxes.
The vernal equinox being Easter, at which time it is then resurrected.
The reason why saviour myths are so similar with a godman who is crucified and resurrected, who does miracles and has 12 disciples, is that these stories were based on the movements of the sun through the heavens, an astrotheological development that can be found throughout the planet, because the sun and the 12 zodiac signs can be observed around the globe.
In other words, Jesus Christ and all the others upon whom this character is predicated are personifications of the sun, and the Gospel fable is merely a rehash of a mythological formula revolving around the movements of the sun through the heavens..
@@Gamefan86 lol.. 'SON' WORSHIP.. ONLY.. Nothing Less..Nothing More.. Nothing Else!! find someone else to convince but I suggest you Repent.. but only if the Wind Blows that way..
@@Gamefan86 WAIT, WHAT??? "SUN WORSHIP"?????
WHAT ARE YOU SAYING??????
@@Gamefan86 are you a scholar or is this just a fun guess?
Romans 20: Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
Still inside a sinful corruptible body
But does not mean we can sin willfully again and again but repent and finish the race strong.
Hebrews 10:25 says :See that you do not refuse him who is speaking. For if they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, much less will we escape if we reject him who warns from heaven.
Wow. Had no clue people debated this. Read it in context and it’s pretty clear what Piper is saying. The number of Christians who think they are without sin after being saved is truely scary. Most of us sin a dozen times before we get out of bed in the morning.
Doug Moo has written one of the finest commentaries on the Book of Romans. Moo asserts that Rom 7:14-25 is Paul's pre-Christian experience. I agree with John Piper's view. When we get to heaven, we can ask Paul. Of course, it won't matter then.
Or possibly Paul describing any Jew under the Law trying to keep it in a self-righteous manor. Either way with all of the surrounding context of Romans it doesn’t seem to lead to mean the Christian experience battling sin.
These verses kinda relates to why some people may still struggle with certain sins. A demon has put sin in our flesh, we may pray to God to get rid of it, but it won’t go away. The devil meant it for evil, but God used it for good, so we won’t become puffed up/conceited. God’s power is perfect in weakness.
2 Corinthians 12:7-10
So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited.
Three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that it should leave me.
But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong.
What I don’t understand then is: how come he also says we do not fight against flesh and blood, if we indeed have an ongoing battle with our flesh?
How come Jesus says we should tear out our eye if it leads us to sin? And why does he tell the adulteress to go and not sin any more (as if that was possible) ?
How come the armor of God is only equipped to fend off attacks from the outside? (Not also to the inside if our struggle is coming from within)
I have more questions than answers tbh…
Our main battle is with the world and the devil because Jesus has already saved our souls , if we believe in Him. But the devil will try to make us believe lies such as that we have to follow the law or that God can’t save us.
Romans 7 ends with a concluding statement, exactly as Romans 7 started in verse one.
He started out chapter 7 with an analogy of marriage, explaining why we are now released from the law, and have been United to Christ so that we can bear fruit to God.
He ends Romans 7 with a coinciding statement, “So then, with my mind I am enslaved to the law of God, and with my flesh, the law of sin.” Look it up in the Greek. The word “serve” is interpreted as slavery every where it is used in the New Testament.
We aren’t supposed to be enslaved to the law. We aren’t supposed to serve God that way.
John Piper, " My view is".
Not what Gods interpretation is, he is saying, what I believe the Holy Spirit is trying to say through the Apostle Paul is this.
God never gave anyone the right or authority to interpret what he means.
2 Peter
1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
----
Both interpretations that John mentioned are mans interpretation, not Gods.
You mustn't lose track of the purpose of the letter. It was to a church where there was friction between Jewish and gentile believers. The gentiles did not have the law of Moses, but the Jews did and thought that following it was essential to the Christian life. In the letter, Paul explained that Jews are no better than gentiles, that we are justified through faith in Christ and not through the law, and that obedience to God is no longer by keeping the law but a new way.
In Rom 7, Paul says we're dead to the law so that we can serve in the new way of the Spirit. But the character described in the conflict instead does not see themselves as dead to the law - he delights in the law, something that should no longer be relevant to him. He fails to show any understanding of the new way of the Spirit.
The result is always failure. It's unlike the conflict in Galatians between the flesh and the Spirit where sometimes you succeed, sometimes you fail. In Rom 7, the character always fails, because they are relying on moral rules. But rules can only condemn those who fail to keep them, not enable obedience.
In principle it can apply to both an unbeliever and a believer - whoever tries to live up to God's expectation by following moral rules. In the context of the church of Rome at the time, though, the focus is neither the pre-Christian Saul nor the apostle Paul. It is Jewish believers who really did want to obey God but insisted that obeying God involved keeping the law of Moses.
You’re not even a Christian please stop talking. You think homosexuality is normal. Get out of here repent.
No no you need to read the whole chapter this is before he was a Believer, read it very well he was mentioning he does the things he does not want to do but he doesn't do the things that he should do, but if you go down later on he says who can save this wicked man then he says the Lord does and then he explains after that all the things that the Lord does for him and that gives him a new heart and help some change he doesn't do these things anymore!!!
Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Rom 7:2 For the woman (The Believer) which hath an husband (Sin) is bound by the law to her husband so long as he (Sin) liveth; but if the husband (Sin) be dead, she (The Believer) is loosed from the law of her husband (Sin).
Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband (Sin) liveth, she (The Believer) be married to another man (Jesus), she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband (Sin) be dead, she (The Believer) is free from that law (Law of sin and death); so that she (The Believer) is no adulteress, though she be married to another man (Jesus).
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law (The Law of Sin) by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another (Jesus), even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God (Obedience to the Law).
Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death (Law of Sin and death).
Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law (Law of Sin and Death), that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit (Law of God through the teachings of Jesus), and not in the oldness of the letter (Without understanding).
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead (Without knowing the law you can’t know sin).
Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived (Sin came alive unto us after we became aware of the law), and I died (This is the law of sin and death).
Rom 7:10 And the commandment (The Law), which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death (Again the law of sin and death, and the reason we all need a Savior).
Rom 7:11 For sin (Deception of sin, and not the law), taking occasion by the commandment (The Law), deceived me, and by it slew me (Unable to perfectly keep the law, and again a reason why we need a Savior).
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good (The Law) made death (The Law) unto me? God forbid. But sin (Sin should be made death unto us), that it might appear sin, working death in me (Alive unto the law of God) by that which is good (The Law); that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual (Can only be accomplished in us by His Spirit): but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I (Again, the whole reason why we need a Savior).
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not (Which is to obey the law of God), I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not (Can only be accomplished by His Spirit).
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law (Law of sin and death), that, when I would do good (Obey God’s law), evil is present with me (Still in the flesh, and needing a Savior).
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God (His Spirit in me) after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law (God’s law) in my members, warring against the law (Law of sin and death) of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members (Our flesh).
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind (My understanding) I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Psa 19:8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
Psa 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
Psa 19:10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
Psa 19:11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
I have what I believe to be a much better video on Romans chapter 7.
If you understand it, it doesn't matter.
The text follows an ABA pattern evident in the pronouns the text employs. Rom 7.1-6 (we, us, you), Rom 7.7-25 (I, me), Rom 8.1f (those, you, us). One thing Rom 7.7-25 does not do is say or infer to the audience that this is their experience. The language is descriptive, not prescriptive. Imagine having the text read aloud to you... the sheer number of 'I''s spoken should make it very clear the speaker is not speaking about the audience, only his own experience. Its a rhetorical device.
Not sure how anyone could disagree with this.
I disagree with this. Because I am not a slave to sin. I have been redeemed. I belong to Jesus. Romans 7 is about the unregenerate person. Romans 8 is about the regenerate person.
@@EmmaBerger-ov9ni I disagree. Romans 7 is NOT written in the past tense. Further, we know we are no longer slaves to sin and regenerated when we recognize that we do sin and then no longer wish to do so.
@@EmmaBerger-ov9ni It seems that Romans 7 has not been considered in the light of who Paul is addressing, 'to them that know the law.' He has been developing a theme throughout the preceding chapters and is reinforcing Romans 6 by digressing into a forensic analysis of how the law reveals the exceeding sinfulness in man. Although Paul appears to be talking in the present, he is not, he is talking about himself as a man under the law held in bondage by the law. Romans 7 emphasises the limitations of the old law which leads Paul onto Romans 8 to describe how there is a now a new law which is liberty in Christ.
@@EmmaBerger-ov9ni Before salvation, no one would struggle between FLESH AND SPIRIT, because there would be NO SPIIRIT!
Simple answer, YES !
Amen
may we look to you amid the trial knowing you are providing a way for us to pass
I am not a slave to sin. I have been redeemed. I belong to Jesus. Romans 7 is about the unregenerate person. Romans 8 is about the regenerate person. Stop using Romans 7 as an excuse for your sin.
As just another brother I agree that this passage is typically taken out of context and I used to land pretty heavily that he cannot be talking about born again regenerate believers, but I don’t think that is accurate anymore. I think the problem is a lot of non Jewish Christians insert themselves as who Paul is addressing. But it is clear he is addressing Jewish brethren and I would say that he is addressing Jewish Christians and reminding them that their righteousness cannot be attained through the law because of their sinful nature. What they needed is God to give them a savior not the law for them to attain righteousness.
Exactly, he is saying why the law was not adequate and why we need the saving grace of Jesus Christ, and why Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit works to edify us; I am no longer dead in sin and I no longer look to the law. I looked to the law to know I was in need of a savior. He is walking people through the need, what it looks like to need a savior. I can’t believe Piper doesn’t see that.
@@Hoppieg it is really strange, MacArthur does the same thing. All of Romans 1-11, is pretty much explaining the same thing, righteousness through faith in Jesus and why righteousness cannot be obtained through the law. But for some strange reason so many excellent Bible teachers jump out of context here and their hermeneutic puts more weight on their personal experience and immediate verb tense. Plus they say, only a believer would love the law in their inner being. Which Is also, imo, missing the whole point that we now have Jesus instead of the law. We actually have the substance of the promise to love and delight in rather than the shadow, which they would likely agree with and say that is why we don't have to keep the sabbath. I am ok with the idea that Paul is talking about himself and believers post conversion , I disagree more with the conclusion and teaching that Paul is trying to convey a point about the believer's everyday struggle with sin in general. But, in the end the application is actually the same, which MacArthur did a nice job with preaching that we need to realize and own who we are now in Jesus to overcome our sinful passions. But there is something that gets missed with jumping straight to that application that Paul seems to be saying. It seems.like he is saying a downward spiral into deeper sin is actually rooted in trying to do what is right through the law according to the flesh rather than the Spirit which chapter 8 ends up being mostly about. Anyway, I enjoy this topic probably too much and have become a bit of a troll about it but I think it is at the theological center of all of Romans.
@@cutoats LOL at the “become a bit of troll,” - too funny… I really didn’t know this was a thing for people to be at theological odds over - until my Bible study this week. Oh man, as a new Biblical beliviever, did I learn quickly… But I only came to Romans, because of my study on Hebrews 3 - which is what really set my Bible study off, when I told the salvation was not secure for those who have not sully surrendered their lives to God - then someone decided to use Romans as an excuse for sin, rather than seeing Paul is describing the work of the Spirit and the process of sanctification, which, without explanation of anyone, and being led only by the spirit, seems quite obvious to me… Seems like Paul is doing nothing more than describing, for new believers, the thought process by which a person comes to the realization that they need a Savior because the law just is not going to do it, never can do it, and no matter how much effort you put it, it will never, ever tame the flesh, because it was merely meant to show the need for a savior and never meant to save to begin with. So then he explains how the Holy Spirit goes to work, once we surrender to Christ through faith. And that once free from sin, we no longer produce the fruits of sin, but rather, fruits of spirit and righteousness… It’s like his letter was the TH-cam of the day. It’s where new believers would have gone to seek answers. I just love Paul.
Study scripture it’s clearly about it as a believer. The problem is that you think you have no sin. If we say we have no sin we decive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
I believe that when The Book of Romans was written apostle Paul no longer struggled in sins. How would the wealth of spiritual wisdom and knowledge would be revealed by The Lord Jesus to the person who had kept in sinning and under the shackles of sin?
In Romans 7, Paul highlighted his life as a Pharisee, before his life with Christ. He knew the law and the commandments are holy, righteous and good but he admitted he was unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. He wanted to obey the law but couldn't carry it out because he was under the bondage of sin.
He concluded, he was a wretched man, who could free him from the power of sin ? Then he joyfully declared "Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
Romans 8 emphasized that the Holy Spirit that gives life has set us free from the law of sin and death. Romans 8 showed that the Holy Spirit is in conflict with the flesh.
Living under the Grace of the Lord Jesus is living in step with the Holy Spirit by living in the Teachings, Commands and the Words of the Lord Jesus.
Only the Lord Jesus who is in harmony with the Holy Spirit can set us free from the power of sin. The Lord Jesus said "If you hold to My Teachings you are really My disciples, then you will know The Truth and The Truth will set you free. Whom the Son sets free is free indeed."
The Lord Jesus said that "Whoever wants to be My disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow Me."
Romans 6 is teaching us how to live in Christ by living dead to sin, dead to ourselves. We cannot have a new life in Christ if we keep on sinning. The sinful nature must be put to death by putting off our old selves and putting on the Righteousness of Christ.
The proof that you are under the Grace of God, living in the Holy Spirit and dwelling in the Lord Jesus is your moment by moment obedience to the Teachings, Commands and Words of the Lord Jesus.
The Lord Jesus said twice in The Book of Luke "But unless you repent you too will all perish. "
The Lord Jesus said to the adulterer "Neither do I condemn you. Go now and leave your life of sin".
The Lord Jesus said to the healed paralyzed in the temple " Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you"
If you die as an evildoer, The Lord Jesus will tell you "Away from Me, you evildoer".
Romans Chapter 7 was the sin struggle of the Pharisee named Saul before he became a Christian. Read Romans Chapter 6 and Romans Chapter 8 and you will find out that Romans Chapter 7 is a historical present of the old life of a pharisee living in the law. Romans Chapter 6 is about "dead to sin". Romans chapter 8 is about "The Holy Spirit freeing a believer from the power of sin". Historical present was always used by apostle Paul in the Epistles to convey the past in present tense to appeal more to the Greek-speaking people at that time.
When The Holy Epistles were written by the Apostle Paul, he was no longer living or struggling in sin because The Lord Jesus would not give him deep Divine Revelations if apostle Paul was not walking in The Light.
Apostle Paul wrote to the Thessalonians in 1 Thessalonians 2:10:
You are witnesses, and so is God, of how holy, righteous and blameless we were among you who believed.
So if apostle Paul was holy, righteous and blameless, how could he still be struggling in sin?
You think Paul was sinless when he wrote Romans?
@RT-qz5ci I believe Paul was not living in sin and he was growing in His life of faith in Christ as his life and he was crucifying the flesh but his faith was the work of Christ as illustrated by Book of Acts and his epistles .
In 1st Timothy 1:5 Paul said to Timothy The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.
Paul's command to Timothy came from the (1)pure heart (2) good conscience (3) and sincere faith of Paul.
Paul was not as perfect as Christ but he was living a life offering himself as slave and minister and apostle of Christ.
First of all he speaks about being married to Christ.
Secondly when we go to Romans 6 He speaks about living for Christ.
Look what he says about not being a commiter of sin, but is his flesh that sins against his nee will, that which is the Holy Spirit.
Did he have the Holy Spirit as a devout Pharisees?
Would a Pharisee ever admit to being a sinner? No, they exalted themsleves and could not see their sins. Just go to john 5 when Jesus healed the blind man, acused him of being a sinner from birth as if they had not.
The flesh is the part of him that is sold under sin but his inner man is now in one with Christ's Spirit, as he is married to Christ. 1 Corinthians 6:16-17 (KJV) What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
Also, he says that he is warring within himself, as there are two separate and opposing members(desires) vying to gain his will.
Go to Galatians 5:17
King James Version
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
He says in Romans 7:18
“For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.”
Paul identifies the problem in Romans 7, the law of sin in our flesh. But the solution in Romans 8, The Law of the Spirit of Life In Christ Jesus. The real you, the spirit man is In Christ by faith. That is the Gospel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It can’t be Paul presently because of chapter 6 and 8, he would contradict himself. It’s an unbeliever under the conviction of sin.
Yes, exactly.
Anybody can describe them selves as a Christian, doesn't mean they are.
Paul was a Christian though.
Being a believer in a magical floating jew zombie is not something to be proud of, it's embarrassing.
Christianity is about sun worship, the stories about Jesus are symbolic.
He is just a personification of the sun.
The sun "dies" for 3 days on December 22nd, the winter solstice, when it stops its movement south, to be born again or resurrected on December 25th, when it resumes its movement north.
In some areas, the calendar originally began in the constellation of Virgo, and the sun would therefore be "born of a Virgin"
The sun rising in the morning is "the saviour of mankind"
The sun "walks on water" is just the reflection of the sun on water/the sea.
"He cometh in the clouds" is just sun rays.
The sun's "followers", "helpers" or "disciples" are the 12 months and the 12 signs of the zodiac or constellations, through which the sun must pass.
The sun at 12 noon is in the house or temple of the "Most High": thus.."he" begins "his Father's work" at "age" 12.
The sun enters into each sign of the zodiac at 30 degrees, hense, the "Sun of God" begins his ministry at "age" 30.
The sun is hung on a cross or "crucified", which represents its passing through the equinoxes.
The vernal equinox being Easter, at which time it is then resurrected.
The reason why saviour myths are so similar with a godman who is crucified and resurrected, who does miracles and has 12 disciples, is that these stories were based on the movements of the sun through the heavens, an astrotheological development that can be found throughout the planet, because the sun and the 12 zodiac signs can be observed around the globe.
In other words, Jesus Christ and all the others upon whom this character is predicated are personifications of the sun, and the Gospel fable is merely a rehash of a mythological formula revolving around the movements of the sun through the heavens..
..
@@Gamefan86 Creation testifies about its Creator. Stop looking towards God’s handiwork for your answers when you should look towards God himself. Jesus is NOT a personification of the sun. He is real. There were hundreds of eye witness accounts that describe a man who had resurrected from the dead with literal holes in his hands and feet! I pray that God may reveal Himself and the true meaning of His Gospel to you.
@@Gamefan86 your completely deceived by Satan. I pray you come out of your delusion and God grants you repentance and the revelation and knowledge of His only begotten Son. Hellfire awaits you if you die in your unbelief
How would you explain Romans 6? How many times does it say we are free from sin? Romans 8 also says we are not of the flesh but of the spirit! Kindly disagree with you brother.
I believe it means we are to be considered dead to sin, and in Christ we are free from death penalty
Also Paul tells some believers in Christ to stop living as if they were still slaves to sin 1 cor 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame. God bless
Explanations are coming, but later.
Christianity is about sun worship, the stories about Jesus are symbolic.
He is just a personification of the sun.
The sun "dies" for 3 days on December 22nd, the winter solstice, when it stops its movement south, to be born again or resurrected on December 25th, when it resumes its movement north.
In some areas, the calendar originally began in the constellation of Virgo, and the sun would therefore be "born of a Virgin"
The sun rising in the morning is "the saviour of mankind"
The sun "walks on water" is just the reflection of the sun on water/the sea.
"He cometh in the clouds" is just sun rays.
The sun's "followers", "helpers" or "disciples" are the 12 months and the 12 signs of the zodiac or constellations, through which the sun must pass.
The sun at 12 noon is in the house or temple of the "Most High": thus.."he" begins "his Father's work" at "age" 12.
The sun enters into each sign of the zodiac at 30 degrees, hense, the "Sun of God" begins his ministry at "age" 30.
The sun is hung on a cross or "crucified", which represents its passing through the equinoxes.
The vernal equinox being Easter, at which time it is then resurrected.
The reason why saviour myths are so similar with a godman who is crucified and resurrected, who does miracles and has 12 disciples, is that these stories were based on the movements of the sun through the heavens, an astrotheological development that can be found throughout the planet, because the sun and the 12 zodiac signs can be observed around the globe.
In other words, Jesus Christ and all the others upon whom this character is predicated are personifications of the sun, and the Gospel fable is merely a rehash of a mythological formula revolving around the movements of the sun through the heavens..
@@Gamefan86 NO ITS NOT!!!!!
I disagree with this view of Romans 7. There isn’t much I disagree with Piper about, but this one interpretation is, for sure.
Yes, it's clearly wrong.
Historic Present Tense
If he’s talking about his time as an unbeliever then he would’ve looked at the law and saw that he was murdering and torturing Christians. The law says you shall not murder. So why was Paul murdering Christians ? He came under the conviction of sin through the Holy Spirit. When he was a Jew there was no conviction of sin just a knowledge of sin. He was self righteous trying to keep the Torah.
Understand that if you are ever standing in the message of ‘feeling better about sin’ - your feet are firmly planted in the wrong message and you are not seeing the Bible clearly. The Bible WILL NEVER, EVER, make you feel better, or comfortable in your sin - ever!
You have a misunderstanding of scripture here, Pastor Piper, complete misunderstanding.
Paul is writing in the first person so that when a new believer reads 7+8, they will understand the process of repentance, forgiveness, surrender to Christ, and sanctification through the Holy Spirit. Paul is NOT writing about his feelings in the *present moment*. He is trying to relay this massive experience to the new believer, who has no idea what he is going through or what to expect through surrendering his life to Christ. There wasn’t TH-cam and a church on every corner back then.
Look how often you get asked the same question, and now imagine living two thousand years ago, with no one to ask - Paul had to relay everything to them, and he knew there was no one else who could do it.
That said, your translation is also not backed by other scripture, so your exegesis is incorrect and flawed. Hebrews, 1 John, Ephesians, and so many more…
Ask the Holy Spirit to give you eyes to see and ears to hear, then read it again. ❤
Name your "really good friends" Piper. I would much rather listen to them teach the truth of scripture.
💪❤️🙏
Christianity is about sun worship, the stories about Jesus are symbolic.
He is just a personification of the sun.
The sun "dies" for 3 days on December 22nd, the winter solstice, when it stops its movement south, to be born again or resurrected on December 25th, when it resumes its movement north.
In some areas, the calendar originally began in the constellation of Virgo, and the sun would therefore be "born of a Virgin"
The sun rising in the morning is "the saviour of mankind"
The sun "walks on water" is just the reflection of the sun on water/the sea.
"He cometh in the clouds" is just sun rays.
The sun's "followers", "helpers" or "disciples" are the 12 months and the 12 signs of the zodiac or constellations, through which the sun must pass.
The sun at 12 noon is in the house or temple of the "Most High": thus.."he" begins "his Father's work" at "age" 12.
The sun enters into each sign of the zodiac at 30 degrees, hense, the "Sun of God" begins his ministry at "age" 30.
The sun is hung on a cross or "crucified", which represents its passing through the equinoxes.
The vernal equinox being Easter, at which time it is then resurrected.
The reason why saviour myths are so similar with a godman who is crucified and resurrected, who does miracles and has 12 disciples, is that these stories were based on the movements of the sun through the heavens, an astrotheological development that can be found throughout the planet, because the sun and the 12 zodiac signs can be observed around the globe.
In other words, Jesus Christ and all the others upon whom this character is predicated are personifications of the sun, and the Gospel fable is merely a rehash of a mythological formula revolving around the movements of the sun through the heavens..
If you think Romans 7 relates to your life, your probably still under the law.
Believers are not under the law.
Romans 7 is Pauls predicament prior to being a Christian. Just read Rom 6 and 8 and it is clear he cannot be speaking of his experience as a believer. If he was speaking present tense then he would be a terrible example and a hypocrite.
That’s the point though. We are all hypocrites and need Christ. No one is above that.
Romans 7 is a carnal Christian. Apostle Paul talks about this in 1 Corinthians where he called them brethren but called them carnal because they still sin. Afterwards they became spiritual because they repented. This is when they became the Romans 8 Christian (spiritual). A carnal Christian struggles with sin. A spiritual Christian has been freed from sinning. The spiritual Christian (Romans 8) is born again.
"Does Romans 7 Describe a Christian?"
Kind Sir...I mean NO disrespect towards you atoll...but I must espouse...considering what I just read...(Sorry for the Extremely long "comment". But I do believe it NEEDS to be said)
I read every verses in Romans 7. And of course it was written by Paul; THE greatest messenger of the Gospel; there will ever be. May Jesus rest his precious soul. But (and now I am going to be hated for what I am about to say), Paul went all around his fist to get to his thumb. Where he could've sum-mated verses 1-25; into one verse.
And that verse is # 25. And even there; he lost an awesome chance, to tell mostly Jews; "God IS Jesus; and The MOST important fact any one could ever learn. And...He is ALL any one needs; to sin less and have a joyful life. Regardless of the situation, from birth to death! Believe it or not".
Sadly...almost every other writer of the bible did the same boring thing. Sad indeed. Making the bible; boring most of the time. Like Psalms: "Give us a break, David! We heard you loud and clear; and we got yuz; 125 verses ago!" HUH?
"Come on brother! Come down from your pompous Kingly "Hot-dog"🌭demeanor. We Understand you now. So go on to someone else. We have heard enough to fill the universe! But we still luvz yuz!😍
Fortunately..."that" foolishness; was NOT inspired by Jesus, who IS God. Rather it was inspired by satan; making the writer egotistical and loving of his self 😇: walking around his hand to get to his thumb. (Now get your "flame throwers" Brethren; because I have me flame jacket on). LOL 😛
Thus, Jesus did NOT do that. Praise His Holy Name. Rather; He went fast: right to the root of every thing. And He made it so easy; to NOT sin, and to love Him, to love others, and to give to others. ETC! But the greatest "easy" He told us was...
John 3:16 I so loved this world, I will give of my self (in hell), AKA: "only begotten Son", that whosoever believes in me shall not perish in hell, but have everlasting life.
("THE most precious verse!")...
And that is ALL it takes to be saved; from going to hell. Regardless of what 80% of the Christian world believes 😕. AND...
Matthew 6:13 Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
Oops...that verse was NOT translated correctly 🥴. Thus...
Matthew 6:13 And lead us not into satan's, constant temptational "desires" to make us sin, and deliver us from satan's evil👿. For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
And IF Paul; and any other writer; had preached just those two verses: EVERY person on this planet would have every incredible, Heavenly "tool": first....become saved first; and secondly, sin LESS; all of our days on earth. For it contains every thing a person needs; to please Jesus.
Could I be wrong? ABSOLUTELY YES ! But all others could be wrong too...
...In any case Brethren Please Pray OFTEN and Praise Jesus OFTEN; for He is the ONLY true "God Almighty"; there will ever have been. And may Jesus bless you and yours always. AMEN!
Dude, if this is your opinion on scripture - you have serious problems you need to think through. If you deny a majority of the Bible as God’s word spoken of through men by God, and you think it was only by man - that is a very dangerous place for someone to be in.
The Bible teaches throughout that scripture is God-breathed, and the way that we get that scripture is by men moved by the Holy Spirit writing what God sovereignty willed to be written.
And so when we have these passages of scripture written by David and Paul and Peter that you just mocked and invalidated as merely annoying men writing boring things - you just mocked and invalidated what God himself wrote through the actions of those men.
If I could speculate further, it seems that a lot of people who want to take the name of Christ but deny the authority and inspiration of the rest of scripture - do so in order to live according to their desires, not according to God’s. The only reason someone would want to deny scriptures authority is because they know it commands them not do live how they want to live, or to live how they don’t want to live.
If that is you, then you need to repent of your stubbornness against God, and repent of your unbelief in his word, and repent of your foolish understanding of his word. Almost everything you said showed a complete misunderstanding of God’s word. That should terrify you man. I say this harshly not to sound rude, but because you seem to need a rude awakening out of the mindset that you have.
@@Josh-he7ty "So we agree to disagree!". Now you said what you believe; and I said what I believe. So, I admit: that I could be dead wrong. So could you; and all others be dead wrong. For ONLY Jesus (Who IS God) is "Inerrant and Infallible"! And that goes to EVERY writer in any bible.
Thus: I shant say any thing else of my beliefs, because you did not accept; nor like my message; which I truly believe: the Holy Spirit spoke that comment through my voice. So...
Matthew 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
And I sincerely John Dillon (with true Christian love, I say): may Jesus bless you and yours always.
@@MrPatdeeee so you believe that the Holy Spirit spoke through your comment, but not through Paul?
@@Josh-he7ty Sir, your words about "pat dee" couldn't be MORE wrong (no disrespect intended). I was led (by the Holy Spirit of Jesus) to this man (almost 12 years ago); when he hosted a Christian chat room online. I was in a bad place in my life. I won't bore you with gory details. I'll just say that it wasn't good.
I got Born-Again; because of the Holy Spirit working through pat dee. I've also had my life greatly improved; because of what the Holy Spirit lead him to say to me.
Now, don't get me wrong. I give ALL the credit to Jesus. But, my point is this: IF this man was not being led by The Holy Spirit; to say the things he says; there is no way I would be where I am. For NO "wicked" spirit could do what he has done for me!
So, you may attack his belief; that the Bible is not ALL-inspired; but I KNOW better.
And may Jesus have mercy on you; for saying such offensive things to this "Anointed" individual; and for utterly "watering down" the Infinite Power of the Holy Spirit of Jesus!
'Nuff said. Believe as you wish, Brother in Jesus.
@pat dee, I've been trying to post a reply; and each time it is being "shadow-banned". Oh well. Typical liberal "censorship".