They bought a home they COULD NOT AFFORD and got into financial trouble...
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.ค. 2024
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Today we'd discuss about a family who got into financial trouble. It all started with a home they could not afford and the loans they took with it. Here is my advice...
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0:00 Introduction
1:20 Scenes from Finance Summit 2023
3:05 Savings now
5:56 Understanding CPF
7:08 Bankruptcy problems
8:53 My recommendations
14:46 Downgrading suggestion
#bankruptcy #financialfreedom #financialtips #finance
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Josh holds a degree in Accounting from NTU. In 2016, he co-founded the financial education website TheAstuteParent to provide detailed insurance plan analysis and financial planning tips.
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1) In sg, half of our live's financial problems is our money which goes to financing the HDB/condo/residential property. Once this is fully paid off (ASAP if possible) it really takes a huge chunk of the problem away. I bought my HDB resale with pure cash. I didn't believe in loans even though one may say can use loans to leverage etc. The reasoning is i don't want the stress of needing to set aside sums of money every month for mortgage.
2) General rule - do not buy what you cannot afford. If you can't afford a 5 room HDB (including all that comes along, renovation costs, furniture costs etc), then pls do not buy that 5 room flat.
3) Kids are a finite financial expense. If you are short in finances, please do not think of having too many kids or having kids at all. This may sound anti-family, but it is true.
4) The best insurance plan is actually to keep healthy. It is not exactly insurance plans. Of course they are also important, i'm not saying they aren't. However, you will realise that terms and conditions of health insurances are increasingly getting more and more fluid, and insurers are even changing terms of existing plans and riders.
Spend money to get nutritious and healthy food, by all means spend money for that gym or exercise class to stay healthy. spend money for good health screening annually.
Pov noted
3) Kids may not be the problem. If a 3rd flat was chosen at start, maybe loans can be avoided?
4) Insurance covers when circumstance of own health is beyond ones control. But yes agree, do take care of health.
@@joshconsultancy Yes. Not advocating for no insurance cover. More importantly, please do not overspend on unnecessary cover.
if they have chosen a smaller flat from the start, then maybe things may not be the way it is also.
Also if they had a smaller flat initially, maybe they may also not want to have so many kids. Cos there is that finite physical limitation right in front of their face.
@@shurakishi4707, agree 100% with you
Not true man, if you are a Singaporean, you can easily afford an HDB and settled it by CPF within few years, most immatured estate has 3 room, 4 room HDB at 2~300k only. The problem is people always like to wear a hat that is bigger than their head, looking to buy prime location which easily sets them off half a million or even a million dollar, so who is to blame? Also HDB loan is still pegged at 2.6% and nobody praising the gov of ther vision.
@@yongdesmond5412 I don’t think it is easily afforded even with full CPF. The assumption of the message that our government has always been singing is if you use CPF for a BTO. BTO need to apply and you can’t assume everyone who applies it will get it.
Even if you do meet all of the criteria for BTO and pay for it fully with CPF of both husband and wife, it is not paid off in a few years. But much longer.
Good advice
Totally enjoyed your video, lesson learnt 👍
Thank you 🙏 share with someone who should hear too
If she needs someone to tell her recommendation 1, she needs a full fledged advisor
A lesson to learn
Totally agree with Josh:
*#1 CLEAR THE BANKRUPTCY NOW*
Financing for new home purchase should not have been an afterthought. Planning before purchase is key.
Well said 👍
Fantastic video made!
I will also recommend her whole family to get adequate medical insurance coverage. They can go for govt coverage, no need for private. This way, their already tight finances would not be made even worse by any unexpected H&S scenarios.
Thank you for the high praise.
Yes agree medical insurance is needed
Caveats to pt 1.. my family member is bankrupt, and will like to keep it that way vs discharged. Cos they haven't really learn the lesson.. being a bankrupt helps to ringfence family expenses
Valid point. In this situation, I think they are well on the way back up.
The worry was should the emergency cash be used to clear the loan off. For this case, I supported that. 🙂
14:33 you mention if hit FRS then it becomes liquid. If I understand CPF rules correctly, cash top up cannot be withdrawn. So if FRS is 100k and 20k is salary contribution and 90k is cash top up. You won't be able to withdraw the excess 10k. Even if the numbers are flipped, cannot withdraw either since salary contribution less than FRS
Amounts above FRS can be withdrawn. Cash top or earned in employment 👌🏻
Cannot be withdrawn if you don't meet the agreed BRS/FRS. If you meet you can withdraw.
Based on total monthly of 11k, I think their total annual is ard 130k, not 50k for wife and 130k for husband.
The budget is on monthly take home. Hope it clarifies
I wouldn’t recommend #1,to use emergency funds to pay off debts and discharge from bankruptcy. The $50k is her only funds available in case of recession e.g losing jobs. Moreover, her husband should be under a restructure fix repayment $800 per month with no more additional interest. At her husband age late forties also face limitations in his job pursuit. Do note that even after bankruptcy discharge, banks still wouldn’t grant any housing loan or credit cards due to the his old record of bankruptcy.
Noted, valid point raised
We have to be realistic with what we have and what we can afford. dont be greedy to over swallow what we cant afford. There are alot of wants and desire but we have to be practical and see if we can afford.
Hi. Just to add on, even if bankruptcy status is cleared, it’s highly unlikely that bank will allow repricing and other banks will allow refinancing. Because banks look at past repayment habits and credit history, and with a stained record, this couple will face huge push backs from banks. So this also imply that: shall the couple decides to downgrade to another property, it’s either under sole ownership (wife) if they need to take a mortgage loan from bank (provided they do not have to depend on husband’s cpf monies to finance) or fully pay and buy a small flat in a cheaper location. If all these housing options are out, they have to appeal to hdb for another hdb loan, with supporting documents (may or may not be successful). All these are important points to note because if they are clearing their bankruptcy status solely for the purpose of taking bank loan, then they may be sorely disappointed. Do check with banks first before even proceeding.
Good point raised Eugene
Yes, be careful. Maybe hold cash in hand... But if go appeal HDB for help, there maybe more options... To move to 4rm.
Good thing is banks are not giving anymore reno loan... so most will go for credit lines hence higher interest
Oh! Didn't know that...
Why is this a good thing, though?
There is renovation loan still available
@joshconsultancy many banks are not giving anymore... my best understanding is the profit is thin and many people defaulted or bankrupted knowing banks won't get anything and also many have their contractors to fake the quotation.. old trick
5 room hdb apartments cant do lease buy back as of now..
I understand… in future if insufficient for retirement
I dont encourage to get himself discharged now... paying $800 doesnt mean he can get a job than 130k and dont think his Company will pay him more than 130k after his discharged.
.
More job opportunities should help
But still have to be their guarantor?
Just asking if critical illness insurance is good to have although I have the ENHANCED INCOMESHIELD PREFERRED. I am 60 years old and currently retired.
I’ve to avoid specific advice on public 👌🏻
If you’d like to cut down on premiums, chowing advantage plan can save you some money. Pros and cons apply.
If question is with ci, do you still need hospital insurance, answer is definitely yes because hospital bills can vary and be long lasting. Ci plan doesn’t pay for all situations in hospital and is usually a 1x payoff. Hope it answers and speak to a qualified adviser 👌🏻
Hi, what’s your take on topping up the Full Retirement Fund for ( 65 yo payout for life ) or better to save it in the bank or fixed deposits ? That is if one has some saving in the bank. Which is better ? Thank you in advance 🙏
At this moment 3-4% interest can be earned with fixed deposit. Putting to RA has less appeal. I shared this during the Josh Tan Finance Summit. Look out for it soon 👌🏻
@@joshconsultancyThank you very much 🙏
Consider hiring part time helper to bring down some costs since they can skip paying salary + utility bills + meals for the full time helper . Family members can chip in to do more housework
Agree on the points
High pay high expenses, this is very normal for the youngsters, but didn't expect this couple who is in late 40s also like that. That is why don't overspend, because when you are distress over money, it will normally lead to other problems.
Oh, they bought the home many years back not recently.
But the loan burden dragged...
on hindsight a good learning point I should expand further 🙏
Having children does not equate you need a bigger house; I know of people with 3 siblings sleeping in a triple decker bed growing up in a 3-room HDB.
Hence its your lifestyle that you need to adjust.
Good point 👌🏻
i just think the cash envelop of 3.8k and bills of 2.7k just look excessively high. i guess the family needs to identify the big ticket items in these 2 categories, sort out "need to" expense vs "nice to have" expenses and reduce the expenses. the loan of 305k and 55k bankruptcy debt is really not difficult to clear if they manage their expenses better considering their take home pay is 11.7k/mth or 140k/annum. if they just reduce the expense to 50% of takehome, that would be 70k/annum of savings. the bankruptcy debt could easily clear within a year. Home loan is paid through CPF which at least eases the burden on their immediate cashflows.
Just off hand looking, i am not sure if tuition fees and having a maid are that necessary when u are in a state of bankruptcy. it certainly looks more like "nice to have" items. Parental support could be a huge burden under bills and that is something that could also be discussed with the parents.
pov noted
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
=)
Maid could be a luxury since 2 children are already working. This means that there are at least 4 grown adults in the house plus 2 or 3 teenagers surely they can all handle and share household chores to reduce cost further.
I get ur point of view
Who encourage & influence them to buy :)
5 kids somemore. Thats the stupidest thing anyone can do. 🙂
Take loan for renovation. For what? I’d rather sleep well on a thin mattress than worry about finances on a sealy bed. If need to take loan means cannot afford. Cannot afford then don’t buy. Simple.
Maybe I will settle bankruptcy.
Sell away 5 room flat depending which area. Unlock fund from sale.
Buy new Ec 3 bed around 1.4 mil or 4 bed 1.6 mil.
Have life insurance.
8 years later probably can get 400k-700k profit
Go back and buy 3,4 or 5 room flat in cash.
Cant take the loan for 1.4m EC i guess?
@@joshconsultancy 5 room flat I don't know where it is , if at good area are they probably take back 800k up
Just need to take a bit loan after they settle bankruptcy, is troublesome process also long but I think years later will make a big difference
Why didn’t take hdb loan?
Good question. Potentially would have helped the situation
- HDB loan has eligibility conditions =)
U can't reprice if you are in the locked in 2 years....
They past lock in from my understanding. In lock in it also Depends on clause 👌🏻
Have to look at the age of the children... but no maid is possible. Need careful planning and afterschool care (which may be a great thing because there's stable routine for the children).
Two kids are working. Are they contributing? One to cover power bill, the other water bill.
University fees? Is it an endowment payment? Otherwise, the kids should get bank loan for their studies.
I think they can make it. Bite the bullet...
It's a terrible idea for his wife to drain her personal savings to bail out her husband's debt. She'll be left feeling vulnerable and exposed. Instead of coddling their children, they should push them to get off their backsides and start earning. Downsize to a smaller, more affordable flat once the kids are pulling their weight. Live within your means, for crying out loud. They should retire ASAP and not even entertain the thought of working till 60. Time's ticking, so cut the excess and make those kids shoulder their own damn burdens.
May I ask, why not get Early Critical Illness?
Should get also but budgets are tight now. Ci to be prioritized
kind of crazy to think that household income of >150k is struggling like this.
It was lower in yesteryears. Lack of savings is a problem
Combined salary 180k. Still can go bankrupt. Can't understand. Not Overstress, is over burst.
Not really the income as what I teach here often “it’s how much you keep”.
The reason for the loan in the first place was little/no savings due to family situation
You can go bankrupt when you take risks as a business owner. It is not always personal financial ill-discipline
Take loans for house down payment and renovation - inflated lifestyle. Did they watch “money not enough” by liang zi qiang?
Be nice 👌🏻luckily the hole is not too deep. Hopefully this sharing can help young first time home buyers be more aware
I m sorry but I have a beginner question. I just got a BTO and using CPF to pay ... should I pay off the hdb loan first or cpf loan first ? 😅
None. Housing loans are good debts. If its cpf loans, keep it. If u have comfortable sum to pay off then let it run its course. Excess oa invest. Excess money pump into MA, max it then max SA. Then excess savings keep for emergency funds for 1 yr and put these into high interest savings or fixed income/bonds. Then remaining money invest in stocks
Think there’s only 1 loan which is the hdb loan for mortgage.
Depending on risk appetite it can be invested for the long term. Topping up to SA also is a route. Both have pros and cons.
OA can buy t-bills now. Something I covered in the finance summit. Look out to purchase access for it soon 👌🏻
hdb can take up private loans too. if your income ceiling is high esp resale hdb@@joshconsultancy
Savings of 3k plus, I think this is not even a good case study.
pov noted
$300k at 4.3% interest paying 2.3k every month? That means they are only paying 1k every month towards the loan. How to finish paying 300k? Its going to take them 30 years at this rate. Already in late 40s. Based on this calculation, they cannot retire until they are almost 80. Think they seriously need financial counselling.
Maybe ... but lets also lets not judge too harshly 🙏
There may be details or further circumstances that I dont know also
@@joshconsultancy Not judging, just warning they are seriously over stretched.
Greedy and over confident buyers like to buy big units, hoping to reap huge profit. Like any other investment, nothing is guaranteed. People who got their fingers burnt only have themselves to blame.
This situation is for home stay 🙏
Overstretching not because of greed but more of lack of budgeting and awareness of the harm loans bring
5 room units are not a necessity for a typical small family. Many hope to sell later for a huge profit, assuming life is smooth sailing. For survival in Singapore you must squeeze yourself unless you're filthy rich.
Lease back, doesn’t work. They only late 40
Valid point Steven, In future when they retire
@joshconsultancy
No. 4 is not doable. You cannot top up your CPF when you are a bankrupt
Clear the bankruptcy first. After its cleared 👌
are these people joking? 180k a year income, cannot handle a small amount of debt. They dont have an income problem, they have a spending problem. Bankrupt already and still hire maid? The 5 kids can easily handle house work
When household is big, there is a lot to clean and wash. Especially if want to stay home eat to save money
Maybe we cut them some slack there. It's not like luxury spending and stuff
@@joshconsultancy many hands make light work, divide house work among 5 kids, five, lima, Wu, 五, 오, cinco, fünf
Parents can netflix and chill
why they still need a maid? my mum would had kick our ass haha
LOL =)
How long have they been employed? 180k income can not pay off 5hdb flat? I cant feel sorry for them
Sharp eyes 👏, there were indeed periods of unemployment from layoffs
Jai Hinduja. If cannot afford, property purchase must be funded by high rentals.
Whats Jai Hinduja?
Find a better richer man duh.
Through thick and thin
Maid?? 5 bedroom..
Enjoy life ya.. 😅