If you like to wheel and deal that is one way to eliminate the "downside" of giving cards. Using your gifts as a free fog by not having them attack you or making deals to point removal at other players cards is close to you using the removal!
I feel like you just opened my third eye. Making a deal by sending a benefit to someone else in exchange for *them* using removal? That feels risky in a pod where there might be nobody else who has removal in hand... but if your commander is handing out draw like Ms. Bumbleflower does... I might need to try this.
Another thing thats important to know is that the counter placing effect is ANY creature. Buff and give an opponents beater flying for the turn on the agreement they don't attack you with it or for sudden combat tricks for your opponents is powerful
Nice suggestions - your point at the end about how selective group hug can lead to more enjoyable games for everyone is absolutely correct and is why The Twelfth Doctor has been among my favorite commanders since it was released. The whole table cheers when you give a copy of cultivate to that person who's been stuck on two lands for three turns.
For some reason the twelth doctor had escaped my memory of what those doctors did and demonstrate for any card is actually a really cool effect. I can definitly see the appeal. Agreeing with a player to copy removal spells seems strong and just having that political tool is always nice.
It’s possible I’m just being some sort an asshole here, but I find the idea of helping mana screwed opponents in EDH distasteful. I try to go out of my way to play with strangers and especially new players when I can as I find it more interesting than playing with enfranchised players, and 90% of the time when I see someone get stuck on lands they are running either 32 or fewer lands, or exclusively conditional card draw. Commander has a larger focus on deck building and creativity than other formats, and I love that about it, so I worry that the broad philosophy many players have of “helping whoever’s behind” and “everyone gets to do their thing” actively hinders people’s ability to build functional decks, and promotes greedy bad habits, especially among newer players.
@@73nickson no i was talking to another player with a similar sentiment. Imo its down to how well you know said player, close friends wanna have a good time together meanwhile ive seen players who frankly have not come to the table with the right mindset and its not my part to baby them. But from a strategic point of view if you are not in the lead its within your interest to have more players opposed to the arch enemy. Also you can make it more of a "you owe me" deal in which you get favour over the player for enabling them to even operate. This is another reason im excited for bumble flower and specifically builds in which do not provide mana to your opponents. At a certain point that much more card draw is more like selection than advantage and since im planning to run a high interaction control/group hug deck which wins through massive creatures im going to be able to play those cards faster
@@73nickson alot of this is also context like what kind of deck and game people want to play. If you came to win then im not gonna hold your hand but if you came with your homarid and crab deck im gonna wanna at least see whats in it. Also why i prefer bumbleflower is you get to *choose* its not just some equal effect in which no one actually benifits more or less. It feels like a political tool with thought thats needed in who should get cards
@@73nickson Fair points, though I think it depends very much on the setting in which you play commander. I'm fortunate to have a group of ~10 magic-playing friends in my city and regularly play commander with some subset of them. Our decks are built following the same budget / general power level. If someone gets mana screwed, it could be because of deckbuilding errors, but it's also inevitable that it will occasionally happen even in decks with 36+ lands. Nice to be able to give that player some tools to play the game rather than having a friend sit there doing nothing for an hour or more. If they do get land screwed because they decided to make a 29 land deck, I also have faith in their ability to reflect and realize "If I didn't get gifted these resources I would have had a miserable time - better add more lands!". If they can't do that level of introspection then I would doubt their ability to experimentally learn good deck building habits in the first place. Playing at your LGS is a bit of a different story, but in my case, The Twelfth Doctor deck is one of 12 decks I play, so the number of games where an opponent plays against this deck, gets mana screwed, and I happen have the right cards / board state to be able to gift them a ramp spell when they need it is going to be relatively insignificant compared to the number of games where they suffer from their own deck building decisions and don't have anyone to bail them out. Where I think you DO have a valid point is that, if a new player were to get into magic right now and mostly/only play in pods containing a bumbleflower player, they would potentially learn some unhealthy deck-building patterns. I think that once the bloomburrow precon craze dies down, selective group hug decks will go back to being fringe decks you only occasionally see so the risks of people learning to optimize their deckbuilding around having a supporting hand is relatively low. One other note about playing at your LGS: Since rule 0 discussions can be so vague, I find that it's pretty common for one player at the table to be piloting a much stronger deck than the rest. IMO these scenarios where everyone's deck is "Doing its thing" to some extent, but one of those deck's "things" is significantly stronger than others are where these selective hug decks really shine and make the game more enjoyable for everyone (except the person who was trying to stomp everyone with their more powerful deck, I guess).
Feels a shame WotC didn't design Ms. Bumbleflower with the gift mechanic in mind. Could've been 'Whenever you cast a spell, gift a card. If the gift was promised, put a +1/+1 counter on target creature. It gains flying until end of turn. Whenever you promise your second gift each turn, you draw two cards.' Then all the interesting gift cards from bloomburrow (in WUG anyway), have a home, and she still works basically the same way, but with a but more nuance
I've played against it twice, and it played out very similar both times. Ms Bumbleflower ramps, gets the commander onto the board, doesn't look particularly threatening, gives some cards away to the people in the worst positions, encouraging the rest of the table to fight among themselves, hitting someone for a little bit of damage with Bumbleflower every turn since vigilance + flying means there's always a good attack at no cost of fewer blockers. Eventually, someone alpha strikes the table, Bumbleflower casts a fog, and kills the alpha striking player with commander damage on the following turn. It feels more like a defensive, opportunistic deck than a group hug deck.
I grabbed this precon just because there was a card called Tempt With Bunnies, and Perch Protection is just a funny card. Selective Hug seems like a more fun playstyle than I had initially thought!
Couldn't stop shaking my head in agreement watching this video! I was very intrigued by this card when it was first spoiled and made the basically the same changes outlined in the vid since receiving the precon. Besides lowering the mana curve and leaning into counter synergies, I found that cards that help break parity on the resource-giving really helped this deck stay ahead in the first few games I played with it. Things like The Council of Four, Teferi's Ageless Insight, and Generous Patron can basically keep you at a full grip the whole game. Great video as always!
Spore frog and other play now use later effects are fantastic in cast 2 per turn decks since their low cost and sac to use nature gives a lot of flexibility. Would recommend adding a few of the seals to the removal suite.
My first experience playing AGAINST this deck was largely what you described at the end of the video. I got ahead early with Zinnia, Valley’s Voice, only to watch Bumbleflower feed my only other standing opponent tons of cards and systemically ‘nope’ my way out of the winning position I’d built. I was pretty impressed at how resilient and consistently threatening it was.
The amount of success you’ve achieved on this platform makes me really happy. I enjoy your comprehensive understanding of game theory and spot on card evaluation. And your animations really help understand what you mean. It’s great work.
I am building a Ms. Bumbleflower deck for my wife, and originally planned to upgrade the precon... but after reviewing the deck list a lot, I decided to skip the precon and just order singles. Her ability *really* wants you to cast 2 cards per turn... and not just your own turn! So I went in an instant-heavy direction (35 of them) and went to a mostly untapped land base (but budget, so more than half basics). I also made the ramp lower CMC on average, to help ramp into the commander faster, and changed around the payoffs to focus on things that want to have +1/+1 counters put on them while ditching the alternate win conditions so people don't get scared when they see one hit the field. The deck is now MASSIVELY focused on controlling the game via counterspells, removal, and protection - and using the slow advantage from the commander to give yourself benefits as you play. Ideally you survive until one or two other players are out, and then swing in for a win of your own. I hope she likes it :)
Two big cards to add would be whitemane lion and view from above View puts itself back into your hand after use if you have a white permanent, and whitemane can put itself back into hand, allowing you to spend 2 mana to do bumbleflower things
I have played commander a total of one time, but have played MTGO competitive Magic for a few years. Your vids always make me want to play the hell out of Commander, despite its less "competitive" nature. This deck seems freagin sweet, Dreamtide Whale in particular is perfect here for sure.
I played a few rounds with this deck after making a few swaps on Prerelease night, and the selective draw was really nice. I ended up primarily giving the draw to a player playing the jeskai Doctor Who precon, since he didn't manage to find a red source for multiple turns. One aspect I really liked was that when I played on the stack, I got the chance to let other people dig for important cards, which meant that if I wanted to remove multiple permanents but only had my Swords to Plowshares, I could bargain with the table to let someone draw a card in exchange for them also casting a removal spell. My favorite addition was the Nadu I got during the only MH3 draft I did. Nadu's really good, and Ms. Bumbleflower let me get very consistent Nadu triggers. It drew some hate when it hit the field, and got removed quickly, but I ended up putting 3 lands onto the battlefield, which is a respectable number for Nadu only getting a few turns in play.
Id reccomend to people also the commandzone upgrade video on this precon not necversarilly for what cards to add but because they go a whole lot into what it means to be group hug. An interesting point they brought up not here is that adding alternate win conditions to the deck like "simic ascendancy" and twenty toed toad is asking for people to be scared of you and see you as the threat which is kindof against the group hug side of things. Also i love ms bumbleflowers ability to give the counter to your opponents creatures for suprise combat tricks or deals granting evasion and i personally am going to experiment with generous patron
Ms. Bumbleflower is probably the most powerful commander out of the four, surprisingly, due to the fact that she is (at least somewhat) considered a boon to opponents while also being a evasion and PT engine. Crazy.
My headcanon is that the Psychosis Crawler bumbled into Bloomburrow after Teferi put Phyrexia into the box and found a new Perfection when it discovered Mrs. Bumbleflower’s stew, so now it just screams at anyone who so much as raises a voice against her.
A card im personally running is alseid of lifes bounty. Its a cheap spell for the double spell effect, has built in life link to help race or stay alive and also can be sacced for protection against removal or to help a creature get through blockers
Ms bumble flower was an exciting card for me because its the first to me that has a gameplan to actually win the game at a decent pace. I cannot stress enough when play testing this online how strong buffing a creature for EVERY SPELL you play gets. Also as the snail mentioned selective group hug just works so much better as a political tool with actual planning rather than just "everyone gets everything! Which just means they skip their ramp/setup turns and play all their strong cards now and oh..." which is often the king making feels bad effect that is often discussed when talking about grouphug
@@llamarama6976 Yeah, I dislike how grouphug invalidates a huge amount of the game. Snail has talked about greedy deckbuilding that prioritizes high rolls over consistency and those decks *thrive* in a group hug environment. That bothers me. I also dislike the lack of agency often present in grouphug games, where the determining factor of the game is whether the hug player successfully figured out who and how to hug or not.
Playing it this week with my group was really nice, because every time her ability activated I could give a friend a boost. It's not only nice, but also ingratiates you with potential threats down the line. I think the idea of a selective hug works really well for the deck's title of Peace Offering - "I can draw you cards if you leave me be!"
14:25 last comment since I’ll be playing this deck tonight. You once again make a great point about how equal group hug can tend to have one player snowball more than others, that’s what Xyris (a card you have discussed before) is great since it can help the weakest player at the table get just that little bit more extra draw. Group hug is great!
I'm glad you picked this one, as it really caught my eye out of the four. The asymetrical nature of the "group hug" commander is really underrated, and even if you spread it your opponets are getting 0.67 of a card to your 2, which is more one-sided than it first seems. I also think people are undervaluing the bait and switch nature of the commander. Even when people know what your deck does, they are still reluctant to remove your value engine/win con that's helping them vs the 8/8 Timmy just dropped; ask most Nekusar players. I don't quite agree with all your cuts, but some seem meta dependant such as treasures or tokens, and to your point the deck seems to need few upgrades. Triskaidekaphile especially is cheap, no max hand, and her win con is reasonable with a cheeky draw spell and protection. While I too usually do budget adds, I'm curious what more expensive cards you'd use. We have a Smothering Tithe lying around that seems perfect for the deck, even though I generally dislike the card, and while I haven't looked I suspect there are other similar cards beyond the well known ones that can be considered.
The new lens is doing wonders. It'll be nice to see more videos with your face in them because you have a pleasant persona and your fans dig your work.
I was running Command Zone's modifications (with a few tweaks of mine) and I have been having a blast. However, I gotta say that the direction you decided to go in looks even more fun to play with, so Imma try.
i generally love your content, going over what the route the video will be at the start allowed me to stay engaged through the transitions and you always offer an intresting indepth guide over what your talking about but not so specfic that you go over all 100 cards leading to horrible retetion. +2, but covet jewel is goated and as you run so many creatures I think its easily enough to defend. A gilded lotus that instantly draws you 3 cards in litterally 10/10 so while you may sometimes may allow someone ellse to draw 3 you can then DRAW 3 MORE with your flying that your commander provides and while your opponents have the chance to get the 3 cards you are guaranteed the 3 cards while also being right away. High end ramp cards are bad because they don't do anything the turn you play them but allow for a better turn tommorow but this supplements that by providing the cards today getting that immediate value that you need when running expensive ramp.
I made her in Cockatrice. She’s a beast. I made her into a storm/value engine. I can go for lethal with her or another dude every game just by pumping them to 20+. She can uniquely enable some dope storm infinites. Love her.
One really interesting concept that I’m playing around with is an aggro-control deck where I play cheap early removal and threats to get in quick early damage, before using classic beaters and cards like narset, consecrated sphinx, and fathom mage to close out the game and gain massive card advantage
I am going to keep this video for the changes I want to make. EDHREC is just too broad in recomending group hug. I have a few different considerations. Like putting in Hardbristle Bandit, which is a mana dork that untaps every time you commit a crime, which is whenever you have an opponent draw a card. And I was thinking to have cards that trigger when someone draws the second card a turn, as I was thinking a good engine will have you play two cards in opponent turns.
I’m newer to magic, this was my first precon I snagged a few months back. Made some additions, swapped stuff out, and I got it into a place I really like. This was before watching the video, and it only validated the decisions I made! I cut almost all the gift cards too. Played tons of games with the deck, and it’s so fun. You can speed the game up by feeding players (good for slow games) but you can also really play up the table politics. Bumbleflower works best when you’re unsuspecting
Triskaidekaphile is an interesting card, much as the other "instantly win card". But even if you lean more towards the group hug side of this deck, it doesn't need those cards at all. It still can reliably beat down most people with the commander alone - and then you still have your big beaters in the deck. What I ended up on is just switched all those instant win cards out for just more utility or ramp, like Moonsilver Key. It just searches you a basic OR a mana rock that gives you no max hand size.
Intellectual offering is sooo good in this. Yeah sure it’s 5 mana but you untap afterward and it’s instant which means bumblefart triggers on opponents turns! Also PSYCHIC POSSESSION
Even though it would presumably add a trigger of its own that it couldn't target, the idea of using Brokers' Confluence's third mode on Ms. Bumbleflower's trigger is hilarious to me
"Low curve beatdown that strategically hands out some cards" is where my mind went to with this commander too. I'm not going to build her immediately (Bello is my Bloomburrow guy), but it's on my list of interesting options I might look at again in the future. One card that immediately came to mind as a good fit is Reconnaissance. Vigilance but better is a fanatstic defensive tool, especially when you can potentially hand out counters and flying at instant speed, the ability to safely attack helps the beatdown (oh you have one big blocker? well I send two guys, pull the blocked one out and still get damage through), it's one mana so makes for easy double spelling, and thanks to AC it's at last affordable again.
I made changes to the deck giving more "flash" effects to play during other players turns. My general wincon is the Triskaidekaphile or Twenty Toed Toad on instant before my turn and win on my upkeep or attack.
WAIT WAIT WAIT HEAR ME OUT! *Coveted Jewel* is *awesome* in commander and compleatly worth the 6 mana. It does what no card can possibly do better: make your opponents bend over backwards to kill each other for the coveted jewel. It is 6 mana *leave me alone for as long as it exists*, and I cannot overstate how many times that card as the critical card that won me the game Group hug isn't just about giving resources to your opponents; it is giving resources to opponents that they expend to kill your opponents. In a vacuum it sucks, but in play it warps the table to your favor. And when the time is right, you can always send in a flyer to take it back for when it is time to stop the hug and go for the win *with Triskaidekaphile*. Triskaidekaphile isn't a value card. It is a kill on sight *win condition*. In a deck where you draw cards it isn't there to have an unlimited handsize but to win on the next upkeep against decks that just go wider than you or gain more life than you. Who cares if your opponents have 120 life or 9 billion life or infinite life; it *wins you the game*.
Very interesting upgrades, I got this precon and swapped the commander out to Mr foxglove, took out all the +1/+1 counters stuff, and changed the plan to buff 1 persons hand so I can choose every turn to refill the hand or to cheat out a big boi
Whitemane Lion is a very good card for this deck, because it can allow doublecasts at will unless opponents waste resources on it (and it's like 2 cents).
Rather selfishly, I hope so. The deck that I ended up buying came in second in the polling and I'd like to see as many different takes on improving it from as many people as possible.
So on Bloodroot Apothecary, I feel it'll drop in price in the near future. Now, do I agree that it's solid as a deterrent for treasure spending? Yes. But I also feel that much like you said, it's a game of "spend to hit 8 poison, remove the Apothecary, then spend like mad." Now, it could be a tech piece in cEDH to stop Dockside loops or for say my Miirym high power to not spend treasures like pennies (that deck intends to riffle from dragon to dragon using cards like Ganax, Old Gnawbone, and Roaming Throne to make just an obtuse number of dragons) but for the average player, it's unimpressive
I have an impulse to turn these decks into evil torture devices. To get to the point a card I thought of adding was Fatespinner but that puts the deck into this group slug style deck while you Dictate who gets what.
Played with my friend the other day with Ms bumbleflower. I had to mull to 5 due to bad starting hands but bumbleflower draws helped me catch back into the game. Unfortunately, helping me get back in the game also meant loading me up with counterspells to help me swing in for the win. I feel while nice, the card advantage you give your opponents basically guarantees you are not winning the game.
I upgraded mine to be more huggy. Can't imagine making a "group hug" deck more offensive. At that point don't even by the group hug deck. Just make it a counter deck like almost every other commander deck. That being said i am a pure group hug commander. The moment my group hug decks come out I already know I am not gonna try to win. I am just gonna see everyone's decks pop off.
I love bunnies, so I was sad to see there werent as many bunnies as I'd hoped in this deck. That said, the deck was okay. If you opponents don't play a lot of removal, the extra cards it gives out tends to make the board full. I had to rely on a stacked up Mr. Foxglove purely because he had lifelink to survive. I almost forced my opponents to draw themselves out. The 4 different alt win-cons seem kinda useless to me, since they tend to draw so much hate before you get a chance to fulfill their requirements. That being said, there were some times that it felt like they were my only win con because of how much stuff my opponents were getting. I would replace them with some high power creatures like the hydra, maybe something with evasion or built in protection to stack counters on. The Envoy of the Ancestors is a great addition, same with the whale.
That's if it's going out all evenly. My gluntch deck can equally hold People back and hinder(if the game calls for it) or make the whole field pop off. Haven't really tested this deck out, but I'm sure it can be managed in a similar way.
I have a random question-is there a way to put in a Gilderbairn in a meaningful way? It’s my favorite card of all time; thinking that it could work counter engine. Also, kind of fits with the cool, whimsical critter theme 🐸
my card that i think should be run no matter what for this deck is proft's eidetic memory. this cantrips later in the game, and is also a very very good way to get counters on creatures, this can totally blow someone out with how many it can put on at once.
i play this, while helping those in need, attacking who ever is a threat with the group and letting them know that my guys with 1/1 counters are only for defense, so it's best not to attack me Unless you want your card draw to stop or me hitting you with a big guy. basically don't poke the bear
You might want to have a simple list of "I cut these" and "I add those" somewhere. If I understand the new decklist correctly, you are adding 17 cards: Benthic Biomancer Brokers Confluence Case of the Locked Hothouse Conclave Mentor Dusk Legion Duelist Dreamtide Whale Envoy of the Ancestors Evolution Witness Freestrider Lookout Incubation Druid Kami of Whispered Hopes Luminarch Aspirant Manglehorn Negate Wayward Swordtooth Windborn Muse Witch Enchanter
I think it's 20. There's two changed lands you don't have listed. Precon has 4 of each basic, Snails has a 5 forests and 3 each Plains and Island with a Tranquil Landscape. The last card is a Sakura-Tribe Elder.
@@mn6334 Thanks for catching this, I did not compare the land counts. For the SKT, I thought he was in this precon but it was actually in the Animated Army one. I guess I misunderstood the comment about not wanting to change the usual 20 cards.
I got a question about the Freestride lookout. Targetting an opponent with Ms. Bumbleflower's first ability (giving the card) and then targetting another (or the same) player's creature with the +1/+1 part triggers the effect twice? you get 2 land drops (if you can find one in the 5 top cards) per cast? Am I reading this right?
you seem like a Disdainful Stroke appreciator, and i'm surprised it didn't make the cut in your upgrades. i think Disdainful Stroke needs to be considered in just about every blue deck that isn't exclusively cEDH, since there's usually something worth countering at the 4+ mana value range, and it always feels good to trade up with it. plus, countering a $110 The One Ring with your 5 cent Disdainful Stroke just feels kinda nice sometimes
My second commander game had a Bumbleflower player who wasnt me, it was a friendly introduction to more than just big splashy aggro Might have to pick her up since that player has since moved away Still lost the game tho lol
While the deck does like its +1/+1 counters, I've had much better success with all the other goofy alternative win cons. Perch Protectors plus Triskaidephile was a play I never expected to pull off as a comeback win. Also the hilarious board wipe sacrifice card is the entire reason Bloodroot Apothecary is in the deck. It's not to shut down enemy sacrifices. It's there as an immediate poison counter nuke once everyone else at the table has built a board state.
here's a challenge for you: make the official deck using kadena,slinking sorcerer usable in 1v1 or even 1v1v1 in less then 21 changes(not the commander obviously)
I think what this pre-con does is give people an experience they wont lean into as much, group hug. Sure there are some people who like group hug but that seems to be the minority, and giving the feeling of a group hug in some capacity to a new player will open their eyes to the value of it. Even if its only a little bit, so I ca understand why they put group hug in the precon, even if its not the most optimal thing for that particular precon
I do prefer the asymmetrical hugs tho. Focusing them in the player who's behind can help keep everyone on the game without snowballing the one who's ahead even more
My pod played a couple games with this deck and the general concensus was that it generally made the game feel like a slog. Particularly due to Tenuous Truce, the whole game felt like a 2v2 where the Truced players refused to hit each other and lose their precious card draw, so the two non-truced players were practically zombie'd along for the rest of the game while the trucers built an insane board state. While it has a generally good beatdown wincon, the deck felt like it never had an answer to interaction made against it once the table decided it was a problem.
Asking "hey bill if i give you a card will you not attack me?" Runs dry quickly. Players know you have to cast spells and have to give cards regardless
I like the idea of this deck, but it’s definitely tough to find the balance of low mana spells and being able to cast them instantly without giving too much value for opponents. One idea I had was lots of board wipes and efficient can trips that phase out or make ms. Bumbleflower indestructible.
it's a political deck, like Kenrith the returned king. Scurry Oak and Herd Baloth would be must haves, even if your not doing the other cards that make it a combo. i would figure out how to put IMPRINT cards into the deck, isochron scepter would be amazing so you always have access to a spell you can pay two generic to cast. i wouldn't even run any board wipes, but have cyclonic rift. i would lean on using bounce spells over counterspells.
Hopefully someone here can help me out. I’ve been playing MTG for a year and a half, and I’ve never won a game. I’ve tried different decks and different groups, and I’m just not having fun. I like the social aspect of hanging with my friends but I’d honestly rather sit around and talk without playing a game I’m going to lose again and again. What can I do to start enjoying the game and maybe win a match?
i whole heartedly disagree with coveted jewel. I think it works well to let it be taken and have your opponents fight over it, PLUS since you can get a flyer pretty consistent with the commander it gives you great evasion to get it back if u want. cuts are heard XD
If you like to wheel and deal that is one way to eliminate the "downside" of giving cards. Using your gifts as a free fog by not having them attack you or making deals to point removal at other players cards is close to you using the removal!
Yo the other Commander Guy
this comment gifted me a stroke lol
I feel like you just opened my third eye. Making a deal by sending a benefit to someone else in exchange for *them* using removal? That feels risky in a pod where there might be nobody else who has removal in hand... but if your commander is handing out draw like Ms. Bumbleflower does...
I might need to try this.
I hard agree, I feel like this commander can easily mitigate the card draw "downside" by framing it as a trade for a price
Another thing thats important to know is that the counter placing effect is ANY creature. Buff and give an opponents beater flying for the turn on the agreement they don't attack you with it or for sudden combat tricks for your opponents is powerful
Nice suggestions - your point at the end about how selective group hug can lead to more enjoyable games for everyone is absolutely correct and is why The Twelfth Doctor has been among my favorite commanders since it was released. The whole table cheers when you give a copy of cultivate to that person who's been stuck on two lands for three turns.
For some reason the twelth doctor had escaped my memory of what those doctors did and demonstrate for any card is actually a really cool effect. I can definitly see the appeal. Agreeing with a player to copy removal spells seems strong and just having that political tool is always nice.
It’s possible I’m just being some sort an asshole here, but I find the idea of helping mana screwed opponents in EDH distasteful. I try to go out of my way to play with strangers and especially new players when I can as I find it more interesting than playing with enfranchised players, and 90% of the time when I see someone get stuck on lands they are running either 32 or fewer lands, or exclusively conditional card draw. Commander has a larger focus on deck building and creativity than other formats, and I love that about it, so I worry that the broad philosophy many players have of “helping whoever’s behind” and “everyone gets to do their thing” actively hinders people’s ability to build functional decks, and promotes greedy bad habits, especially among newer players.
@@73nickson no i was talking to another player with a similar sentiment. Imo its down to how well you know said player, close friends wanna have a good time together meanwhile ive seen players who frankly have not come to the table with the right mindset and its not my part to baby them. But from a strategic point of view if you are not in the lead its within your interest to have more players opposed to the arch enemy. Also you can make it more of a "you owe me" deal in which you get favour over the player for enabling them to even operate. This is another reason im excited for bumble flower and specifically builds in which do not provide mana to your opponents. At a certain point that much more card draw is more like selection than advantage and since im planning to run a high interaction control/group hug deck which wins through massive creatures im going to be able to play those cards faster
@@73nickson alot of this is also context like what kind of deck and game people want to play. If you came to win then im not gonna hold your hand but if you came with your homarid and crab deck im gonna wanna at least see whats in it. Also why i prefer bumbleflower is you get to *choose* its not just some equal effect in which no one actually benifits more or less. It feels like a political tool with thought thats needed in who should get cards
@@73nickson Fair points, though I think it depends very much on the setting in which you play commander. I'm fortunate to have a group of ~10 magic-playing friends in my city and regularly play commander with some subset of them. Our decks are built following the same budget / general power level. If someone gets mana screwed, it could be because of deckbuilding errors, but it's also inevitable that it will occasionally happen even in decks with 36+ lands. Nice to be able to give that player some tools to play the game rather than having a friend sit there doing nothing for an hour or more. If they do get land screwed because they decided to make a 29 land deck, I also have faith in their ability to reflect and realize "If I didn't get gifted these resources I would have had a miserable time - better add more lands!". If they can't do that level of introspection then I would doubt their ability to experimentally learn good deck building habits in the first place.
Playing at your LGS is a bit of a different story, but in my case, The Twelfth Doctor deck is one of 12 decks I play, so the number of games where an opponent plays against this deck, gets mana screwed, and I happen have the right cards / board state to be able to gift them a ramp spell when they need it is going to be relatively insignificant compared to the number of games where they suffer from their own deck building decisions and don't have anyone to bail them out. Where I think you DO have a valid point is that, if a new player were to get into magic right now and mostly/only play in pods containing a bumbleflower player, they would potentially learn some unhealthy deck-building patterns. I think that once the bloomburrow precon craze dies down, selective group hug decks will go back to being fringe decks you only occasionally see so the risks of people learning to optimize their deckbuilding around having a supporting hand is relatively low.
One other note about playing at your LGS: Since rule 0 discussions can be so vague, I find that it's pretty common for one player at the table to be piloting a much stronger deck than the rest. IMO these scenarios where everyone's deck is "Doing its thing" to some extent, but one of those deck's "things" is significantly stronger than others are where these selective hug decks really shine and make the game more enjoyable for everyone (except the person who was trying to stomp everyone with their more powerful deck, I guess).
Feels a shame WotC didn't design Ms. Bumbleflower with the gift mechanic in mind. Could've been
'Whenever you cast a spell, gift a card. If the gift was promised, put a +1/+1 counter on target creature. It gains flying until end of turn. Whenever you promise your second gift each turn, you draw two cards.'
Then all the interesting gift cards from bloomburrow (in WUG anyway), have a home, and she still works basically the same way, but with a but more nuance
Wow! This would have been so nice and smooth. I feel like it even adds flavor. I really wish they had done this now.
Wouldnt have to cut Jolly Gerbils either
Wouldnt have to cut Jolly Gerbils either
Why. Now that I have read this I will always wish she worked like this instead
I've played against it twice, and it played out very similar both times. Ms Bumbleflower ramps, gets the commander onto the board, doesn't look particularly threatening, gives some cards away to the people in the worst positions, encouraging the rest of the table to fight among themselves, hitting someone for a little bit of damage with Bumbleflower every turn since vigilance + flying means there's always a good attack at no cost of fewer blockers. Eventually, someone alpha strikes the table, Bumbleflower casts a fog, and kills the alpha striking player with commander damage on the following turn. It feels more like a defensive, opportunistic deck than a group hug deck.
I grabbed this precon just because there was a card called Tempt With Bunnies, and Perch Protection is just a funny card. Selective Hug seems like a more fun playstyle than I had initially thought!
I picked it up Friday because it looks fun. I only have one game in with it, but I absolutely had fun with it.
Couldn't stop shaking my head in agreement watching this video! I was very intrigued by this card when it was first spoiled and made the basically the same changes outlined in the vid since receiving the precon. Besides lowering the mana curve and leaning into counter synergies, I found that cards that help break parity on the resource-giving really helped this deck stay ahead in the first few games I played with it. Things like The Council of Four, Teferi's Ageless Insight, and Generous Patron can basically keep you at a full grip the whole game.
Great video as always!
Isn't shaking your head negative? I assume you mean nodding your head?
@@supermarth64nope! you assumed wrong!
No, you're definitely right, nodding is the "positive" describing word. But technically any movement is shaking the head lol soo both? @supermarth64
Spore frog and other play now use later effects are fantastic in cast 2 per turn decks since their low cost and sac to use nature gives a lot of flexibility. Would recommend adding a few of the seals to the removal suite.
The gastropod has manifested itself
Praise the Gastropod
What a scary group hug deck. It's hare-raising!
I'm absolutely rabbit for this deck!
you would think they'd be kinder, but I guess they truly do not carrot all
You would make a great father with jokes like those
I hate this comment so much. Please take my like
The puns make me want to leave for warren never return.
My first experience playing AGAINST this deck was largely what you described at the end of the video. I got ahead early with Zinnia, Valley’s Voice, only to watch Bumbleflower feed my only other standing opponent tons of cards and systemically ‘nope’ my way out of the winning position I’d built. I was pretty impressed at how resilient and consistently threatening it was.
The amount of success you’ve achieved on this platform makes me really happy. I enjoy your comprehensive understanding of game theory and spot on card evaluation. And your animations really help understand what you mean. It’s great work.
I am building a Ms. Bumbleflower deck for my wife, and originally planned to upgrade the precon... but after reviewing the deck list a lot, I decided to skip the precon and just order singles. Her ability *really* wants you to cast 2 cards per turn... and not just your own turn! So I went in an instant-heavy direction (35 of them) and went to a mostly untapped land base (but budget, so more than half basics). I also made the ramp lower CMC on average, to help ramp into the commander faster, and changed around the payoffs to focus on things that want to have +1/+1 counters put on them while ditching the alternate win conditions so people don't get scared when they see one hit the field. The deck is now MASSIVELY focused on controlling the game via counterspells, removal, and protection - and using the slow advantage from the commander to give yourself benefits as you play. Ideally you survive until one or two other players are out, and then swing in for a win of your own. I hope she likes it :)
Two big cards to add would be whitemane lion and view from above
View puts itself back into your hand after use if you have a white permanent, and whitemane can put itself back into hand, allowing you to spend 2 mana to do bumbleflower things
@@Austin555661 great ideas, thank you!!
I liked that the list had some interesting counter synergies, as well as Foxglove being a cool supplement.
I have played commander a total of one time, but have played MTGO competitive Magic for a few years. Your vids always make me want to play the hell out of Commander, despite its less "competitive" nature. This deck seems freagin sweet, Dreamtide Whale in particular is perfect here for sure.
You know what, this gonna be my first paper deck. Fuck it.
It is done. We are going to play commander now, wild.
@@AutumnReel4444 Full character arc in 3 comments lol
I played a few rounds with this deck after making a few swaps on Prerelease night, and the selective draw was really nice. I ended up primarily giving the draw to a player playing the jeskai Doctor Who precon, since he didn't manage to find a red source for multiple turns. One aspect I really liked was that when I played on the stack, I got the chance to let other people dig for important cards, which meant that if I wanted to remove multiple permanents but only had my Swords to Plowshares, I could bargain with the table to let someone draw a card in exchange for them also casting a removal spell. My favorite addition was the Nadu I got during the only MH3 draft I did. Nadu's really good, and Ms. Bumbleflower let me get very consistent Nadu triggers. It drew some hate when it hit the field, and got removed quickly, but I ended up putting 3 lands onto the battlefield, which is a respectable number for Nadu only getting a few turns in play.
Id reccomend to people also the commandzone upgrade video on this precon not necversarilly for what cards to add but because they go a whole lot into what it means to be group hug. An interesting point they brought up not here is that adding alternate win conditions to the deck like "simic ascendancy" and twenty toed toad is asking for people to be scared of you and see you as the threat which is kindof against the group hug side of things. Also i love ms bumbleflowers ability to give the counter to your opponents creatures for suprise combat tricks or deals granting evasion and i personally am going to experiment with generous patron
Ms. Bumbleflower is probably the most powerful commander out of the four, surprisingly, due to the fact that she is (at least somewhat) considered a boon to opponents while also being a evasion and PT engine. Crazy.
My headcanon is that the Psychosis Crawler bumbled into Bloomburrow after Teferi put Phyrexia into the box and found a new Perfection when it discovered Mrs. Bumbleflower’s stew, so now it just screams at anyone who so much as raises a voice against her.
A card im personally running is alseid of lifes bounty. Its a cheap spell for the double spell effect, has built in life link to help race or stay alive and also can be sacced for protection against removal or to help a creature get through blockers
Your brew of this deck made me hate group hug slightly less. That's honestly quite the achievement.
Ms bumble flower was an exciting card for me because its the first to me that has a gameplan to actually win the game at a decent pace. I cannot stress enough when play testing this online how strong buffing a creature for EVERY SPELL you play gets. Also as the snail mentioned selective group hug just works so much better as a political tool with actual planning rather than just "everyone gets everything! Which just means they skip their ramp/setup turns and play all their strong cards now and oh..." which is often the king making feels bad effect that is often discussed when talking about grouphug
@@llamarama6976 Yeah, I dislike how grouphug invalidates a huge amount of the game. Snail has talked about greedy deckbuilding that prioritizes high rolls over consistency and those decks *thrive* in a group hug environment. That bothers me. I also dislike the lack of agency often present in grouphug games, where the determining factor of the game is whether the hug player successfully figured out who and how to hug or not.
This deck has surprisingly high amount of alternative win condition cards for a beatdown strategy. Triskadekaphile, Simic Ascendancy, new Frog
Playing it this week with my group was really nice, because every time her ability activated I could give a friend a boost. It's not only nice, but also ingratiates you with potential threats down the line. I think the idea of a selective hug works really well for the deck's title of Peace Offering - "I can draw you cards if you leave me be!"
14:25 last comment since I’ll be playing this deck tonight.
You once again make a great point about how equal group hug can tend to have one player snowball more than others, that’s what Xyris (a card you have discussed before) is great since it can help the weakest player at the table get just that little bit more extra draw.
Group hug is great!
I'm glad you picked this one, as it really caught my eye out of the four. The asymetrical nature of the "group hug" commander is really underrated, and even if you spread it your opponets are getting 0.67 of a card to your 2, which is more one-sided than it first seems.
I also think people are undervaluing the bait and switch nature of the commander. Even when people know what your deck does, they are still reluctant to remove your value engine/win con that's helping them vs the 8/8 Timmy just dropped; ask most Nekusar players.
I don't quite agree with all your cuts, but some seem meta dependant such as treasures or tokens, and to your point the deck seems to need few upgrades. Triskaidekaphile especially is cheap, no max hand, and her win con is reasonable with a cheeky draw spell and protection.
While I too usually do budget adds, I'm curious what more expensive cards you'd use. We have a Smothering Tithe lying around that seems perfect for the deck, even though I generally dislike the card, and while I haven't looked I suspect there are other similar cards beyond the well known ones that can be considered.
The new lens is doing wonders. It'll be nice to see more videos with your face in them because you have a pleasant persona and your fans dig your work.
Keep up the great work, its always a pleasure to see a new upload!
I was running Command Zone's modifications (with a few tweaks of mine) and I have been having a blast. However, I gotta say that the direction you decided to go in looks even more fun to play with, so Imma try.
i generally love your content, going over what the route the video will be at the start allowed me to stay engaged through the transitions and you always offer an intresting indepth guide over what your talking about but not so specfic that you go over all 100 cards leading to horrible retetion. +2, but covet jewel is goated and as you run so many creatures I think its easily enough to defend. A gilded lotus that instantly draws you 3 cards in litterally 10/10 so while you may sometimes may allow someone ellse to draw 3 you can then DRAW 3 MORE with your flying that your commander provides and while your opponents have the chance to get the 3 cards you are guaranteed the 3 cards while also being right away. High end ramp cards are bad because they don't do anything the turn you play them but allow for a better turn tommorow but this supplements that by providing the cards today getting that immediate value that you need when running expensive ramp.
I made her in Cockatrice. She’s a beast. I made her into a storm/value engine. I can go for lethal with her or another dude every game just by pumping them to 20+. She can uniquely enable some dope storm infinites. Love her.
One really interesting concept that I’m playing around with is an aggro-control deck where I play cheap early removal and threats to get in quick early damage, before using classic beaters and cards like narset, consecrated sphinx, and fathom mage to close out the game and gain massive card advantage
I am going to keep this video for the changes I want to make. EDHREC is just too broad in recomending group hug.
I have a few different considerations. Like putting in Hardbristle Bandit, which is a mana dork that untaps every time you commit a crime, which is whenever you have an opponent draw a card. And I was thinking to have cards that trigger when someone draws the second card a turn, as I was thinking a good engine will have you play two cards in opponent turns.
I’m newer to magic, this was my first precon I snagged a few months back. Made some additions, swapped stuff out, and I got it into a place I really like. This was before watching the video, and it only validated the decisions I made! I cut almost all the gift cards too. Played tons of games with the deck, and it’s so fun. You can speed the game up by feeding players (good for slow games) but you can also really play up the table politics. Bumbleflower works best when you’re unsuspecting
I really like this video! Would you consider looking at the alt commander, Mr. Foxglove?
Triskaidekaphile is an interesting card, much as the other "instantly win card". But even if you lean more towards the group hug side of this deck, it doesn't need those cards at all. It still can reliably beat down most people with the commander alone - and then you still have your big beaters in the deck. What I ended up on is just switched all those instant win cards out for just more utility or ramp, like Moonsilver Key. It just searches you a basic OR a mana rock that gives you no max hand size.
I like the commander and deck. It helps specific players out that are lagging. I enjoy the pre-con. I am glad I got it.
Willbreaker and dismiss into dream have been real good. I also added Kros and generous patron
Intellectual offering is sooo good in this. Yeah sure it’s 5 mana but you untap afterward and it’s instant which means bumblefart triggers on opponents turns!
Also PSYCHIC POSSESSION
Fantastic content. Would love to see this done with the other precons ^^
Even though it would presumably add a trigger of its own that it couldn't target, the idea of using Brokers' Confluence's third mode on Ms. Bumbleflower's trigger is hilarious to me
"Low curve beatdown that strategically hands out some cards" is where my mind went to with this commander too. I'm not going to build her immediately (Bello is my Bloomburrow guy), but it's on my list of interesting options I might look at again in the future.
One card that immediately came to mind as a good fit is Reconnaissance. Vigilance but better is a fanatstic defensive tool, especially when you can potentially hand out counters and flying at instant speed, the ability to safely attack helps the beatdown (oh you have one big blocker? well I send two guys, pull the blocked one out and still get damage through), it's one mana so makes for easy double spelling, and thanks to AC it's at last affordable again.
I made changes to the deck giving more "flash" effects to play during other players turns. My general wincon is the Triskaidekaphile or Twenty Toed Toad on instant before my turn and win on my upkeep or attack.
WAIT WAIT WAIT HEAR ME OUT! *Coveted Jewel* is *awesome* in commander and compleatly worth the 6 mana. It does what no card can possibly do better: make your opponents bend over backwards to kill each other for the coveted jewel. It is 6 mana *leave me alone for as long as it exists*, and I cannot overstate how many times that card as the critical card that won me the game
Group hug isn't just about giving resources to your opponents; it is giving resources to opponents that they expend to kill your opponents. In a vacuum it sucks, but in play it warps the table to your favor. And when the time is right, you can always send in a flyer to take it back for when it is time to stop the hug and go for the win *with Triskaidekaphile*.
Triskaidekaphile isn't a value card. It is a kill on sight *win condition*. In a deck where you draw cards it isn't there to have an unlimited handsize but to win on the next upkeep against decks that just go wider than you or gain more life than you. Who cares if your opponents have 120 life or 9 billion life or infinite life; it *wins you the game*.
Very interesting upgrades, I got this precon and swapped the commander out to Mr foxglove, took out all the +1/+1 counters stuff, and changed the plan to buff 1 persons hand so I can choose every turn to refill the hand or to cheat out a big boi
Broken Wings is extremely cute because you can any creature flying with Ms.Bumbleflower
Another great video snail
Highly recommend Generous Patron, great way to get more card draws if you're willing to risk your opponent's creatures getting a bit bigger.
I expected you to talk about Wick, Whorled Mind. Can't wait for it.
My girlfriend picked this up and honestly it has been a blast to play against. Ima suggest to her to watch this! Appreciate ya!
I would love a further upgrade of what would you do with a moderate budget excluding lands because lands make any deck expensive
Whitemane Lion is a very good card for this deck, because it can allow doublecasts at will unless opponents waste resources on it (and it's like 2 cents).
Will you be doing each of the Bloomburrow precons?
Rather selfishly, I hope so. The deck that I ended up buying came in second in the polling and I'd like to see as many different takes on improving it from as many people as possible.
So on Bloodroot Apothecary, I feel it'll drop in price in the near future. Now, do I agree that it's solid as a deterrent for treasure spending? Yes. But I also feel that much like you said, it's a game of "spend to hit 8 poison, remove the Apothecary, then spend like mad." Now, it could be a tech piece in cEDH to stop Dockside loops or for say my Miirym high power to not spend treasures like pennies (that deck intends to riffle from dragon to dragon using cards like Ganax, Old Gnawbone, and Roaming Throne to make just an obtuse number of dragons) but for the average player, it's unimpressive
I added Propaganda and Ghostly Prison. No one can hits me in some point and I have a army with +1/+1 counters, and some alt win cons in the table.
I have an impulse to turn these decks into evil torture devices. To get to the point a card I thought of adding was Fatespinner but that puts the deck into this group slug style deck while you Dictate who gets what.
My friend is turning it into a drawing cards deck to get to more answers. Such as teferis ageless insight
I played against a slightly upgraded bumble this past Sunday and it went off. There was a really big bouncing (flying) bunny
Played with my friend the other day with Ms bumbleflower. I had to mull to 5 due to bad starting hands but bumbleflower draws helped me catch back into the game. Unfortunately, helping me get back in the game also meant loading me up with counterspells to help me swing in for the win. I feel while nice, the card advantage you give your opponents basically guarantees you are not winning the game.
I upgraded mine to be more huggy. Can't imagine making a "group hug" deck more offensive. At that point don't even by the group hug deck. Just make it a counter deck like almost every other commander deck.
That being said i am a pure group hug commander. The moment my group hug decks come out I already know I am not gonna try to win. I am just gonna see everyone's decks pop off.
I like Bumbleflower most as a 99er in my Atraxa +1 counters deck.
I love bunnies, so I was sad to see there werent as many bunnies as I'd hoped in this deck.
That said, the deck was okay. If you opponents don't play a lot of removal, the extra cards it gives out tends to make the board full. I had to rely on a stacked up Mr. Foxglove purely because he had lifelink to survive. I almost forced my opponents to draw themselves out. The 4 different alt win-cons seem kinda useless to me, since they tend to draw so much hate before you get a chance to fulfill their requirements. That being said, there were some times that it felt like they were my only win con because of how much stuff my opponents were getting. I would replace them with some high power creatures like the hydra, maybe something with evasion or built in protection to stack counters on. The Envoy of the Ancestors is a great addition, same with the whale.
Hey Alex, can you make more content please? I'm hooked. thanks!
11:23 woouuuhh Kami of the Wispered hopes mentioned top 2 Kamis
i hope you do the squirrel deck next i got it and added more squirrel it was so much fun playing squirrels
yeah, the problem i have had playing against group hug is that it just helps the strongest player win even faster. This approach is much better imo
That's if it's going out all evenly. My gluntch deck can equally hold People back and hinder(if the game calls for it) or make the whole field pop off. Haven't really tested this deck out, but I'm sure it can be managed in a similar way.
Case of the Locked Hothouse is super underrated.
I have a random question-is there a way to put in a Gilderbairn in a meaningful way? It’s my favorite card of all time; thinking that it could work counter engine.
Also, kind of fits with the cool, whimsical critter theme 🐸
my card that i think should be run no matter what for this deck is proft's eidetic memory. this cantrips later in the game, and is also a very very good way to get counters on creatures, this can totally blow someone out with how many it can put on at once.
I used Grazzet MTG's upgrade for this deck. Seemed funny.
i just got this precon on order dont let me down mr snail
I got the family matters precon and i absolutely love it
i play this, while helping those in need, attacking who ever is a threat with the group and letting them know that my guys with 1/1 counters are only for defense, so it's best not to attack me Unless you want your card draw to stop or me hitting you with a big guy. basically don't poke the bear
You might want to have a simple list of "I cut these" and "I add those" somewhere. If I understand the new decklist correctly, you are adding 17 cards:
Benthic Biomancer
Brokers Confluence
Case of the Locked Hothouse
Conclave Mentor
Dusk Legion Duelist
Dreamtide Whale
Envoy of the Ancestors
Evolution Witness
Freestrider Lookout
Incubation Druid
Kami of Whispered Hopes
Luminarch Aspirant
Manglehorn
Negate
Wayward Swordtooth
Windborn Muse
Witch Enchanter
I think it's 20. There's two changed lands you don't have listed. Precon has 4 of each basic, Snails has a 5 forests and 3 each Plains and Island with a Tranquil Landscape. The last card is a Sakura-Tribe Elder.
@@mn6334 Thanks for catching this, I did not compare the land counts. For the SKT, I thought he was in this precon but it was actually in the Animated Army one. I guess I misunderstood the comment about not wanting to change the usual 20 cards.
This is a great control commander as it gives you the ability to keep refueling 1 for 1 spells.
I got a question about the Freestride lookout. Targetting an opponent with Ms. Bumbleflower's first ability (giving the card) and then targetting another (or the same) player's creature with the +1/+1 part triggers the effect twice? you get 2 land drops (if you can find one in the 5 top cards) per cast? Am I reading this right?
It triggers once per turn, so you only get one land out of the effect.
you seem like a Disdainful Stroke appreciator, and i'm surprised it didn't make the cut in your upgrades. i think Disdainful Stroke needs to be considered in just about every blue deck that isn't exclusively cEDH, since there's usually something worth countering at the 4+ mana value range, and it always feels good to trade up with it. plus, countering a $110 The One Ring with your 5 cent Disdainful Stroke just feels kinda nice sometimes
My second commander game had a Bumbleflower player who wasnt me, it was a friendly introduction to more than just big splashy aggro
Might have to pick her up since that player has since moved away
Still lost the game tho lol
Hey snail you should make a video on omnath locus of mana he has an interesting playstyle and is one of my new fav commanders
I love eating bumbelflowers with frodo baggins equipt with the 1 ring 😂
While the deck does like its +1/+1 counters, I've had much better success with all the other goofy alternative win cons.
Perch Protectors plus Triskaidephile was a play I never expected to pull off as a comeback win.
Also the hilarious board wipe sacrifice card is the entire reason Bloodroot Apothecary is in the deck. It's not to shut down enemy sacrifices. It's there as an immediate poison counter nuke once everyone else at the table has built a board state.
Can we talk about how good all 4 of these Precons are?
is the snail guy gonna do a deck tech on the snail chucker (wick, the whorled mind)
here's a challenge for you: make the official deck using kadena,slinking sorcerer usable in 1v1 or even 1v1v1 in less then 21 changes(not the commander obviously)
What on Earth are you talking about?
Crawler is just a funny Lil Guy, he fits right in. :^P
I’ve already played this precon quite much. It wants blood.
Lookin' good, SS!
I think what this pre-con does is give people an experience they wont lean into as much, group hug. Sure there are some people who like group hug but that seems to be the minority, and giving the feeling of a group hug in some capacity to a new player will open their eyes to the value of it. Even if its only a little bit, so I ca understand why they put group hug in the precon, even if its not the most optimal thing for that particular precon
do you think there could be a grouphuggier version of this, even if it strays further away from the precon?
Howling mine is a perfect addition for that if you ask me. Adding other hug commanders as well.
I do prefer the asymmetrical hugs tho. Focusing them in the player who's behind can help keep everyone on the game without snowballing the one who's ahead even more
Nice hiarcut man
i would add wedding ring to this deck.
I loved this video and. I love snails
bumbleflower is my favorite new Voltron commander
New snail! Exciting!
Fastest I've ever clicked on a TH-cam notification
My pod played a couple games with this deck and the general concensus was that it generally made the game feel like a slog. Particularly due to Tenuous Truce, the whole game felt like a 2v2 where the Truced players refused to hit each other and lose their precious card draw, so the two non-truced players were practically zombie'd along for the rest of the game while the trucers built an insane board state. While it has a generally good beatdown wincon, the deck felt like it never had an answer to interaction made against it once the table decided it was a problem.
Asking "hey bill if i give you a card will you not attack me?" Runs dry quickly. Players know you have to cast spells and have to give cards regardless
Is the white mouse that draws on gifts worth it?
I like the idea of this deck, but it’s definitely tough to find the balance of low mana spells and being able to cast them instantly without giving too much value for opponents. One idea I had was lots of board wipes and efficient can trips that phase out or make ms. Bumbleflower indestructible.
Ahhh so you're one of THOOOSSEE players
it's a political deck, like Kenrith the returned king.
Scurry Oak and Herd Baloth would be must haves, even if your not doing the other cards that make it a combo.
i would figure out how to put IMPRINT cards into the deck, isochron scepter would be amazing so you always have access to a spell you can pay two generic to cast. i wouldn't even run any board wipes, but have cyclonic rift. i would lean on using bounce spells over counterspells.
Hopefully someone here can help me out. I’ve been playing MTG for a year and a half, and I’ve never won a game. I’ve tried different decks and different groups, and I’m just not having fun. I like the social aspect of hanging with my friends but I’d honestly rather sit around and talk without playing a game I’m going to lose again and again. What can I do to start enjoying the game and maybe win a match?
Funny I've seen so many groups saying this is by far the worst deck of the precons out the box. But I trust salubrious over them.
I didn't look at the other precons too closely, they could be pretty good for all I know. The Jeskai one certainly looks solid.
i whole heartedly disagree with coveted jewel. I think it works well to let it be taken and have your opponents fight over it, PLUS since you can get a flyer pretty consistent with the commander it gives you great evasion to get it back if u want. cuts are heard XD