@@jonospursuitofthewild7755 Not these days as I moved a few years ago to live up in scotland for a bigger playground 😁 It would be good at somepoint to get back on to the moors again and experience my old stomping ground. I still have family that live down that way so maybe I'll do that when I'm next down visiting.
Grazing should be banned and scrub should be allowed to develop on Dartmoor followed by trees. High House Waste is partially protected against grazing and is unlike most of the rest of the moors. It is owned by the Dartmoor Preservation Association, though I don't think they are ambitious enough to want to rewild the whole moor. Keeping Dartmoor as a grazing desert is a crime.
What would we be "proud to create", you ask? And you ask this to see what Dartmoor landscape we would create to replace the Dartmoor landscape mankind has created there to this day? What's this urge to interfere with landscapes all about? Why take pride in creating any more, or drastically alter the "creation" that has been done by farming on Dartmoor for thousands of years, for example? Don't we wonder at and value early settlements like Grimspound, and protect that heritage, or does that mindset also have to be replaced - and if so then who says so, and why? If you take Wistmans Wood, Black-a-Tor Copse, or Piles Copse as examples then it will be realised that reforestation on today's deforested shelterless poor soil would take over a century to get mature native tree cover, assuming it could be done at all - or do we make a forest of unnatural pine species such as at Fernworthy or Bellever? Do you want some past dream of truly natura landscape to return, or to create some false "natural" landscape to admire the unreality of, or do you simply want land management to stop then see what wild thing happens? I think evidence suggests that "going wild" from the man-made point we are at now would mean that bracken would quickly dominate the landscape rather than trees. Bracken stifles all other vegetation and is extremely difficult to control so you'd probably end up with a moor that is a vast thick bracken mat, the favoured habitat of ticks. Bracken is not universally favoured by wildliífe or livestock and it would soon obscure Grimspound and Grey Wethers and so on and invasive roots pull these remains apart. Is that the natural moor we should look forwards to? Oh dear, what does the hand of man create, eh?
Hi Richard, thanks very much for taking the time to comment. It's great to get a chance to have a dialogue with people. You make several good points, a lot of which I agree with but I do see some things from a slightly different perspective. I used to look at Dartmoor and be absolutely awestruck by its raw and wild beauty, but for a while now I've been wondering what exactly is wild about it? In terms of wildlife there is very little. I find the diminished ecosystems and lack of proper trophic cascades very sad, especially given the potential for a landscape like Dartmoor. Even more so given that it is a national park. For me, I find rewilding an interesting possible solution to Dartmoor's lack of wilderness. Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's realistic to suggest that any modern landscape could be returned to a state comparable to 5000 years ago, we're far past that! But I would definitely like to see a more ecologically rich and biodiverse ecosystem on Dartmoor. Woodland habitats, as well has having existed pre human-intervention, are also what would naturally occur today if we were to stop interfering. Research in 2016 identified the Dartmoor area as temperate rainforest habitat, which intersects a band of similar habitat in Europe that has been getting increasing conservation recognition (map on page 2: coek.info/pdf-oceanic-and-temperate-rainforest-climates-and-their-epiphyte-indicators-in-brita.html). I think the fact that the land has been farmed for 5000 years shouldn't stop us from trying to find a more optimal solution for nature. We are more aware now than at any other time in history of our impact and dependance on nature, and I believe we should try to make space for it. Whether this should be done with rewilding I'm not entirely sure, but I find it a very compelling solution. At the very least I do feel we have to shift the current paradigm of grazing, burning and management on Dartmoor, as these are the exact same practices that we abhor in ecologically significant habitats elsewhere, like the amazon rain forest. I agree that the timescales of any changes could be on the scale of hundred(s) of years. But there are examples of nature reclaiming the land quite quickly, especially if ecosystem engineers are introduced (such as beavers, boars, lynx and wolves (but I'm not suggesting we introduce wolves onto Dartmoor!)). There's a great video narrated by George Monbiot about the changes that occurred when they reintroduced wolves to yellowstone (th-cam.com/video/ysa5OBhXz-Q/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=SustainableHuman). Perhaps bracken would dominate the habitat initially, but given time to get into its natural rhythms forests would eventually develop. 100 years may seem like a long time but I do wonder what the landscape will look like if we continue to degrade the land as we are now. If rewilding were to occur we would have to come to terms with the fact that there would also be costs to current wildlife, but the net gain would far outweigh any costs. For example, there is wildlife that prefers ranches in the amazon, but I wouldn't advocate turning the rainforest into ranches in order to support those few species. I do also agree with your point about protecting the heritage in places like Grimspound, and I would like to think some compromise could be reached in which those historically significant locations are protected from forest encroachment. On the other hand, we may just have to decide which we would rather prioritise. Like I say, I'm not 100% convinced rewilding is the best solution for Dartmoor, but in my eyes it has a number of very strong points in its favour. I hope my ramblings make some sense! And thanks again for your comment :)
@@jonospursuitofthewild7755 interesting thoughts, as many about Dartmoor are. I am in my 50th year of walking and wild-camping there. Family farm in the area. I'm no expert but I have a view based on what I see and have discovered, and maybe what I too would hope for. Hill farming has taken a real hit in past years. It is no longer the "industry" it once was, nor does it retain all of past practices, some of which were particularly beneficial for the land that man had altered for thousands of years beforehand. Today, the place is what it is. I rather enjoy it although there are some things that irritate. As an avid wild-camper I do wish the issue of fire use on Dartmoor was better understood by campers - so many do harm by it (as evidenced by this years prohibition of camping at Bellever) yet so many still light fires there and cause damage by it, even unintentionally. What saddens me most is the number of people who, as an example to others to follow, show themselves camping there with fires on social media. I'd love to see education and awareness overcome that issue! On a greater scale the most invasive thing I have noted is the spread of bracken and I become ever more convinced that this species will become ever more dominant there. Change in farming practices have reduced the checking effect of livestock, particularly horses and the use of bracken for farming purposes. Along with bracken comes ticks and I can see this becoming an issue that public health services and Dartmoor users become ever more aware of. I don't doubt that ticks would be delighted to find more animal life there! I can also foresee bracken easily winning a race against any reforestation, certainly natural reforestation, so that outcome probably would require more land management to achieve - man management to overcome man management doesn't always work too well. Rewilding may have some interesting effects if habitat supports it - the reintroduction of otters to the River Otter is spoken positively of in some circles - but again the hand of man sent to "cure" effects of the hand of man doesn't always bring best results, just different ones than would have been. What the "optimal" solution for wildlife is, I am not sure. What wildlife do we have in mind? I reckon the most persuasive interest for changes on Dartmoor may be connected to carbon reduction or storage, not wildlife. There are already carbon-related projects underway on the moor. I guess there's a bit of time yet - Dartmoor isn't going anywhere in a hurry!
What are your thoughts on rewilding Dartmoor? Or rewilding in general? Is this something we should be pushing for?
I have never seen such excellent film and picture art, this in connection with your text and the music. Your imagery is absolutely great.🙏
Again - this was another fantastic video and an interesting topic - great videos, sir! Really enjoying these!
Your edits are just another level, great channel!
Thank you so much!
Great video, really well done. I love the southern Moors, my old playground..
Thanks! Do you still get to visit much?
@@jonospursuitofthewild7755 Not these days as I moved a few years ago to live up in scotland for a bigger playground 😁
It would be good at somepoint to get back on to the moors again and experience my old stomping ground. I still have family that live down that way so maybe I'll do that when I'm next down visiting.
Grazing should be banned and scrub should be allowed to develop on Dartmoor followed by trees. High House Waste is partially protected against grazing and is unlike most of the rest of the moors. It is owned by the Dartmoor Preservation Association, though I don't think they are ambitious enough to want to rewild the whole moor. Keeping Dartmoor as a grazing desert is a crime.
Totally agree
What would we be "proud to create", you ask? And you ask this to see what Dartmoor landscape we would create to replace the Dartmoor landscape mankind has created there to this day? What's this urge to interfere with landscapes all about? Why take pride in creating any more, or drastically alter the "creation" that has been done by farming on Dartmoor for thousands of years, for example? Don't we wonder at and value early settlements like Grimspound, and protect that heritage, or does that mindset also have to be replaced - and if so then who says so, and why? If you take Wistmans Wood, Black-a-Tor Copse, or Piles Copse as examples then it will be realised that reforestation on today's deforested shelterless poor soil would take over a century to get mature native tree cover, assuming it could be done at all - or do we make a forest of unnatural pine species such as at Fernworthy or Bellever? Do you want some past dream of truly natura landscape to return, or to create some false "natural" landscape to admire the unreality of, or do you simply want land management to stop then see what wild thing happens? I think evidence suggests that "going wild" from the man-made point we are at now would mean that bracken would quickly dominate the landscape rather than trees. Bracken stifles all other vegetation and is extremely difficult to control so you'd probably end up with a moor that is a vast thick bracken mat, the favoured habitat of ticks. Bracken is not universally favoured by wildliífe or livestock and it would soon obscure Grimspound and Grey Wethers and so on and invasive roots pull these remains apart. Is that the natural moor we should look forwards to? Oh dear, what does the hand of man create, eh?
Hi Richard, thanks very much for taking the time to comment. It's great to get a chance to have a dialogue with people. You make several good points, a lot of which I agree with but I do see some things from a slightly different perspective.
I used to look at Dartmoor and be absolutely awestruck by its raw and wild beauty, but for a while now I've been wondering what exactly is wild about it? In terms of wildlife there is very little. I find the diminished ecosystems and lack of proper trophic cascades very sad, especially given the potential for a landscape like Dartmoor. Even more so given that it is a national park. For me, I find rewilding an interesting possible solution to Dartmoor's lack of wilderness. Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's realistic to suggest that any modern landscape could be returned to a state comparable to 5000 years ago, we're far past that! But I would definitely like to see a more ecologically rich and biodiverse ecosystem on Dartmoor. Woodland habitats, as well has having existed pre human-intervention, are also what would naturally occur today if we were to stop interfering. Research in 2016 identified the Dartmoor area as temperate rainforest habitat, which intersects a band of similar habitat in Europe that has been getting increasing conservation recognition (map on page 2: coek.info/pdf-oceanic-and-temperate-rainforest-climates-and-their-epiphyte-indicators-in-brita.html). I think the fact that the land has been farmed for 5000 years shouldn't stop us from trying to find a more optimal solution for nature. We are more aware now than at any other time in history of our impact and dependance on nature, and I believe we should try to make space for it. Whether this should be done with rewilding I'm not entirely sure, but I find it a very compelling solution. At the very least I do feel we have to shift the current paradigm of grazing, burning and management on Dartmoor, as these are the exact same practices that we abhor in ecologically significant habitats elsewhere, like the amazon rain forest.
I agree that the timescales of any changes could be on the scale of hundred(s) of years. But there are examples of nature reclaiming the land quite quickly, especially if ecosystem engineers are introduced (such as beavers, boars, lynx and wolves (but I'm not suggesting we introduce wolves onto Dartmoor!)). There's a great video narrated by George Monbiot about the changes that occurred when they reintroduced wolves to yellowstone (th-cam.com/video/ysa5OBhXz-Q/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=SustainableHuman). Perhaps bracken would dominate the habitat initially, but given time to get into its natural rhythms forests would eventually develop. 100 years may seem like a long time but I do wonder what the landscape will look like if we continue to degrade the land as we are now. If rewilding were to occur we would have to come to terms with the fact that there would also be costs to current wildlife, but the net gain would far outweigh any costs. For example, there is wildlife that prefers ranches in the amazon, but I wouldn't advocate turning the rainforest into ranches in order to support those few species.
I do also agree with your point about protecting the heritage in places like Grimspound, and I would like to think some compromise could be reached in which those historically significant locations are protected from forest encroachment. On the other hand, we may just have to decide which we would rather prioritise.
Like I say, I'm not 100% convinced rewilding is the best solution for Dartmoor, but in my eyes it has a number of very strong points in its favour.
I hope my ramblings make some sense! And thanks again for your comment :)
@@jonospursuitofthewild7755 interesting thoughts, as many about Dartmoor are. I am in my 50th year of walking and wild-camping there. Family farm in the area. I'm no expert but I have a view based on what I see and have discovered, and maybe what I too would hope for. Hill farming has taken a real hit in past years. It is no longer the "industry" it once was, nor does it retain all of past practices, some of which were particularly beneficial for the land that man had altered for thousands of years beforehand. Today, the place is what it is. I rather enjoy it although there are some things that irritate. As an avid wild-camper I do wish the issue of fire use on Dartmoor was better understood by campers - so many do harm by it (as evidenced by this years prohibition of camping at Bellever) yet so many still light fires there and cause damage by it, even unintentionally. What saddens me most is the number of people who, as an example to others to follow, show themselves camping there with fires on social media. I'd love to see education and awareness overcome that issue!
On a greater scale the most invasive thing I have noted is the spread of bracken and I become ever more convinced that this species will become ever more dominant there. Change in farming practices have reduced the checking effect of livestock, particularly horses and the use of bracken for farming purposes. Along with bracken comes ticks and I can see this becoming an issue that public health services and Dartmoor users become ever more aware of. I don't doubt that ticks would be delighted to find more animal life there! I can also foresee bracken easily winning a race against any reforestation, certainly natural reforestation, so that outcome probably would require more land management to achieve - man management to overcome man management doesn't always work too well. Rewilding may have some interesting effects if habitat supports it - the reintroduction of otters to the River Otter is spoken positively of in some circles - but again the hand of man sent to "cure" effects of the hand of man doesn't always bring best results, just different ones than would have been.
What the "optimal" solution for wildlife is, I am not sure. What wildlife do we have in mind? I reckon the most persuasive interest for changes on Dartmoor may be connected to carbon reduction or storage, not wildlife. There are already carbon-related projects underway on the moor. I guess there's a bit of time yet - Dartmoor isn't going anywhere in a hurry!