Philip Yancey on Deconstructing His Faith
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.พ. 2022
- Philip Yancey on Growing Up in White, Racist, Paranoid Fundamentalism, Deconstructing His Faith, Reconstructing it, and a Message to Exvangelicals
Philip Yancey grew up in a church culture he describes as white, racist, paranoid fundamentalism. After deconstructing his faith in his late teens, Philip describes how he came back to faith, or found authentic Christianity, and why he loves talking to exvangelicalism. He also talks about how writing has changed, and how to write about your family pain while your family is still living.
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As the world becomes undeniably darker, the struggle to continue walking the narrow-ing road. In my 35 years of walking with Jesus I've just come to realize that when struggles intensify, it is an affirmation of His presence and closeness to me and not His absence. He prunes those He loves. That message is sadly missing in our modern antichristian world. We will suffer! It is the other side of the Good News.
if you don't mind me saying, what believers are "witnessing" is what God's breathed words have explained in the New Testament Epistles specifically addressing the Body of Christ and the Old Testament writings and New Testament Gospels-which are accounts of the Xpistos (Christ) specifically to be sent and sent to and addressing the Nation of Israel alone as Jesus says in Matthew 15:24 and sends his disciples out to harvest only from "the lost sheep of the house of Israel" the first time, prior to his death and resurrection. This bringing in a New Covenant beginning with the command to Mankind to repent and believe before God's wrath comes in the 70th week of years as prophesied in Daniel 9 24-27.
Eugene Joseph : Well said! I have tried for years to get that across to certain people that I am in some part of a teaching position for. You have just nailed it with the way that you put it!
@@Azeldas_Legacy Thank you....! I try, as you do, to remind those I know are sincere believers, that the trials they are facing is a sign of great Fatherly love for them. He wants to strip away all things pertaining to your trust of the world and put it ALL on Him!m
@@eugenejoseph7076 amen! In one of my most recent posts, I quoted a lady that I've known for a few years but I'm just really getting to know her better, as she gave me a copy of her book "Seasons Under Heaven, a Legacy of Faith", her name is Julia Moore Wideman. As she was raising five children in the midst of her husband battling terminal cancer, she tells how well-meaning Christians would try to encourage her by saying "God never gives us more than we can handle. You sure can handle a lot!" She points out that nowhere to scripture actually say this, 1 Cor 10:13 says that we are never tempted beyond what we can bear - but that is discussing temptation! So far as trials, tribulations, persecutions - HE never says HE won't give us more than we can handle- it is actually the opposite! He will allow more in our lives then we can handle so that we will CAST ALL OUR BURDENS ON HIM! We'd never learn trust if we could handle everything ourselves!
@@Azeldas_Legacy Wise words indeed. My wife Jenny and I learned to trust the Lord, and this is true, through our first 7 years of marriage. I was diagnosed with terminal cancer, two suicides in my family 2 years apart, a car accident that killed my mother in law, and because she was full time care giver to my wife's sister, with developmentally delayed, Jenny and I were the only one who could take care of her. No other relatives offered! All this to say that 35 years later, our Lord Jesus has blessed us in ways we can't describe and we praise God for Virginia, who has been a joy to have her live with us. Many tried to comfort us through these long trials, but only a few knew that there are no words to comfort others going through what we were going through at the time. We've learned that when we encounter others going through horrendous trials, we weep with them, and pray that the Holy Spirit brings them His comfort, because we have nothing to offer anyone, except the Love of Jesus. Sorry for the rant. God bless.
Philip Yancey is still a hero of mine. When I became Christian a few decades ago, my brother asked me to read a book written by two people trying to debunk Christianity. I fell for it, though, and was in agony on a see-saw of faith. I wrote to Philip Yancey, as I trusted him to give me a straight answer without toeing any line. I've still got his wonderful letter - and it made all the difference. I should add that I wrote to one other for help, too - I was feeling desperate! It was Tom Wright, then Bishop of Durham. Like Philip, he wrote in such a real, intelligent and authentic way. He too wrote back - several pages. I could hardly believe that two such eminent people would take the time to sort me out. I'm still deeply grateful to both of them. They're spiritual giants. If you read this, Philip, THANK YOU SO MUCH! xxx (Carey, please could you kindly forward this to Philip? I'd like him to know his kindness hasn't been forgotten. Thank you!)
if there is a man i owe the return of my faith to God...its this man Philip Yancey.....even right now I am tearing up just remembering the darkness and valleys I've been in and reading whats so amazing about grace and Disappointment with God.....him and Pastor Chuck Swindoll have to be some of the most influential shepherds God used in my life during that time of darkness....Mr Yancey I am most blessed, not for the paths of your life that brought you pain, but for the light and life you drew out of all those experiences and God used you to heal someone like me.....I am so eternally grateful....
"G165 and g166" grateful?
Thank you. Phillip Yancy opened my mind. The depth of his writing really helped me as a fundamental Christian.
Also, I have health problems (MS). Your work on Paul Brand helped deal with my MS.
Philip Yancey's book, DISAPPOINTMENT WITH GOD, changed my life. I was so impressed by the truth contained in it, that I bought 6 additional copies to share with others. At least one person confided to me that it was a huge help to him as well. Our expectations, if they aren't met, can cause doubt of the things we have believed. His book corrected my expectation to reality.
Dear Yancey, you are one of the greatest blessings of our generation, some of us have been healed and comforted by your books, throughout our journey with Christ. As you say, “Grace like water flows downwards to the lowest point”, your exploration of grace brought higher perspective to Christianity! you are my favourite author and if I owe the sustenance of my faith to a human being, it would you, Philip Yancey!
I thank God for you, for keeping speaking the truth to our souls using your talent and emotional honesty.
Much love,
I’m an octogenarian now and grew up similar to your story being in the Mennonite faith. I understood salvation but not grace. I never could be good enough. As you, I walked away, came back to a new and better God of grace, forgiveness and love. I like the way you put it … ordered, disordered and reordered 😊. So true. I’ve read some of your writings and always learned more about who God is and more about what I am and could be. Thank you 🙏🏻
1 Redeemer, 2 men talking, lead many to be redeemed. Praise the Lord. Thank you Carey and Philip.
Thanks for this story. I really enjoyed the story by Phillip Yancy. "Pain redeemed is more impressive than pain removed". I will hold on to that forever.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Speechless and moved to tears and feel I have been gifted today by a beautiful man in sharing his life story. I cannot articulate how deeply his conversion experience witnesses to the unfathomable grace of God ... Cannot say enough... Thank you Philip and Carey for bringing this conversation to us to have had the privilege to listen. Just purchased Where the Light Fell...!:)
Could it be that your mom, Philip, was praying for you for many years, which is why you had that amazing revelation from the Lord? As a mom of 4 sons who raised her boys from day one of their lives to follow Christ, my heart goes out to your mom. It is the sorrow of my life that one of my sons has walked away from Jesus. He was a pastor and is apostate right now. I fear for his soul. It is the sorrow of my life.
The church let me down for many years, but Jesus never did, and He never will.
This was a very interesting talk, thank you both for it.
Hi Ellen, you may want to read his book Where The Light Fell. She was not the godly mother pointing her sons to Christ but rather a perpetrator of abuse. God used it nonetheless, as He does with all of us in our pain and suffering.
I feel your pain. All four of my children left Jesus while in college. My heartbreaks.
I'm not sure who is responsible - God, or Carey, or Phillip, but this might be the interview that accesses Phillip Yancey at the deepest emotional level. Which is a gift.
I want to thank you so much for sharing your heartfelt life experiences and testimony. For using your pain to help others heal, break through and process their own agony and pain. I am sixty years old and am just now processing things from my childhood.
One thing that is profound to me is your mother not acknowledging the mistakes she made raising you and your brother... my parents feel the same which has stumbled me.
Recently someone spoke to me about what Jesus endured and suffered in life and on the cross. He endured so much more than I can imagine yet he said on the cross “Father forgive them for they don’t know what they do”
This is what I believe about my parents and many who have hurt others.
They do not know what they were doing.
God bless you.
An accurate knowledge is required of ourselves, our families, our nation, our ethnicities and people groups. This involves understanding our broken human nature due to the Fall, and the effect which our personal acquiescence to the lures of "the world, the flesh, and the Devil," has upon us. Realizing the sociological impacts of wars our ancestors have engaged in, economic booms and busts, epidemics, etc. Absorbing all the harm and evil done to us individually and collectively without becoming vindictive and bitter requires Christ's love, grace and strength. These challenges will follow us throughout our Earth's journey.
I have watched this three times. There is so much value in this interview. My two favorite statements from Mr. Yancey
1. Be careful not to destruct when you deconstruct.
2. A pain redeemed impresses me more than a pain removed.
What complete and utter drivel. The role of a theologian is to convince people who otherwise could be persuaded by evidence and reason that the god of an ancient desert tribe is something you should make sacrifices for. How incredibly sad.
If you are sad, crying helps.
@@jaylinn416 I’m quite happy actually. I rather enjoy not being a deluded psychopath worshiping an ancient desert nomadic tribal deity.
Hey Phil look what happened when they gave the blacks the state. It’s a failed state. Like all black cities and nations.
@Philip Yancey, your book about a "Grace" changed my life, I was a Pastor with out understanding of grace. Since 20 years the grace is drives me! Thank u!
Thank you so much Philip for this honest real interview. It’s encouraged me so much today. Your story is so hopeful , thank you Lord ❤
Simply Powerful! Thanks Philip Yancey for sharing.
Thank you so much for your book 'What's so amazing about Grace?' God used the story of the prodigal daughter in your book to heal me of father-wounds. He showed me He is trustworthy, kind and always present. The gap that my earthly father left in my heart - God filled it with His fatherly love. I hope I never forget all He's done for me. That said, I also loved the general theme of 'undeserved favour', and how we Christians, because of the grace we received from God in Jesus, well it's necessary for us to share and pass on that grace to others. Praise God for His wonderful grace. Thanks again for your writings.
Love Philip Yancey. "Reaching for the Invisible God" was a book that helped me immensely. 💖💖
Dear mr Yancey, thank you so much for sharing your story. I grew up in a very structured catholic family and was the black sheep. I too, thought that God was severe and angry. Over the years I came to realize that He is a gentle forgiving God. I have most of your books and please know that they were instrumental in helping me to not be so hard on myself.
He is both. He is holy first and foremost. He is loving and kind and willing to forgive. But you cannot ignore the hundreds of verses about God's anger toward sin. You cannot ignore the over 30 times Jesus talks about hell and warns people not to go there. Its not one or the other its both. There is mercy and grace for those that come to Christ. There is anger and wrath for those that reject Christ.
@@TheJpep2424 Exactly! Today’s churches are selling so many false gospels! The gospel of selfish you are great God adores you no matter what you do, the selfish prosperity gospel, and the legalistic you can earn your relationship. None with balance, Gods amazing grace with Godly discipline and boundaries. And Carey promotes all of the false leaders. Maybe he is just as narcissist as the false leaders?🧐
@@tam4givin maybe he's more graceful than you
@@TheJpep2424 as she says she was well aware of the angry and severe side of God. What she needed to experience was the gentle and loving side. Listening well is a skill you can learn.
@@TheJpep2424Dear brother/ sister we must remember that although inspired by the indwelling Spirit of Christ, the Bible was still written by men who projected human characteristics upon a formless God. This was especially true of the Hebrew scriptures with the prophets (many were stoned) progressively speaking, yes of God's wrath but ultimately after that mercy. Thank God for that revelation in Jesus the Messiah who gave us a true image of Father God's nature. Unrelenting grace and mercy in so far as dying Himself for His creation which He inhabited and loved. The resurrection of Jesus is as you know a new age of grace to which we are invited to partake and experience NOW. Jesus's parables of so called hell goats sheep gnashing of teeth etc? Jewish Rabinic rhetoric, to pressure those of that time to repent and seek God. The early church fathers did not understand the judgement at death of the unrepentant as eternal fire and torment. But being subjected to God's crucible of consuming fire.(again a metaphor). Catholic concept of Pergotary is akin to this and older Eastern Orthodox's Apokatastasis even clearer again. Ultimate Redemption for God our Father does not lose even one sheep. As it is written our sovereign God (He does not lose courtesy of Jesus) wills that ALL will be saved, and especially those who believe while alive on this side of death. Sadly the last few centuries due to Calvinistic Protestantism, and especially with Fundementalism with its literal interpretation of the Bible has given us an era of fearful anxiety due to a false image of a legal God rather than one of healing and restoration. Bias has also given us incorrect translations of Greek, hell being a classic example. Having said all this it is true how hard it is for one to let go after so long believing what we have been taught and how to interpret the Bible. Only asking the H.S. to lead you will do this. May I suggest a Brad Jerzak an ex Protestant pastor now Orthodox, who has formulated in his three books "A more Christlike God, Word and Way. While deconstructing and reading his material it helped me in formulating in my mind what my heart was telling me as I alone read my Bible. May our ever gracious Father in whom we live and have our being...be with you. Shalom❤️
I’ve read Philip’s books and have been changed by his ideas, but this interview… Wow, just Wow… I am changed by the man 🙌🔥
Thank God HE chose to save me when I was dead and unable to do anything towards HIM
Wow! What an incredible interview! Thanks to both of you for making it happen. It has given me so much to think about.
Carey thank. You for this interview with Philip Yancey. Deeply moving and instructive. Our God is a Redeemer God!
Incredible testimony from a wonderful writer and human being.
Where the Light Fell is a harrowing memoir. Sometimes our past shapes us, and sometimes we manage to become who we are despite our past.
So glad I watched this. I have enjoyed every Yancey book I have read, and look forward to more, including his memoir. This is the first interview I have seen with Mr. Yancey, and he is exactly who I saw in his books. Thoughtful, insightful, caring… God gave him a beautiful gift. I feel blessed that he has “paid it forward” and shared it with me. His books have helped me work through some of my own struggles with faith, and I am so grateful.
how refreshing as I venture off to the tree where i pray no judgement
A tale of Grace! Thank you for sharing your personal and emotive journey to Grace.
Thank you both so much for the discussion. I lived through the same years as Philip and remember the events of the 60-70's. Philip, your experience in going through the writing process is so very helpful to me. And your Christian witness will definitely touch young people who have been taught to dismiss faith and our Creator. I had my own conversion experience, similar to yours, in my 40's. Your concluding comment about redeeming pain I apply to my many lost years of agnosticism. Redeemed. This interview will stay with me!
And I grew up in a very similar environment, yet I sided with civil rights. Now, I have a cousin who was refused to be allowed to join a black church.
Where The Light Fell has been such a blessing in my life. I went through alot in my own life a few years ago coming to a place of experiencing God's grace. I relate to many things her wrote about in this boom. I am trusting God to redeem my experiences of pain as He takes me through. He's a great God!
Something I’ve done myself , I’m actually still reconstructing my faith .
I love Philips honesty.
I’m going deeper into my faith than I’ve ever been and it’s fantastic journey.
Thank you Philip Yancey for sharing your life so openly. I love your books they helped me so much. We have such a wonderful God who just loves each and one of us. May God bless you for many years to come.
Praise God for your life M. Yancey.
Pain redeemed is greater than pain removed. Incredible. Romans 8 says... whosoever he called he justified, those he justified he sanctified, those he sanctified he glorified...in order to be conformed to the likeness of his son!
Thanks Philip...for showing what these verses mean. I praise God for the grace he has given you to "re order" your life ...according to His will. You are stunningly honest.
So touched by the testimony. So much I can relate to. Thanks to you both.
I am encouraged by your courage to remain in the church and be authentic about your doubts. I can relate. I appreciate your honesty about what is not biblical but cultic like in nature which reflects poorly on the creator. I was angry at the lies preached in church by fools. But, I recall that Jesus Christ was turned over to be crucified by the very "believers" of his day. He and Paul really had to be very tactful in their dealings due to politics. I emplore you for sharing your true story and for continuing to question and challenge lies. For that is what God requires. Finally, thank you for sharing MLK Jr. intentions to change the hearts of people. I see that you have allowed the world to see within your soul searching journey to help renew their minds and hearts. I pray for a pure heart for I want to see God.
God bless you and your family.
This is a brilliant interview. I have such respect for Phil Yancy sharing his life story that I know will touch the deep spiritual depth of others. Including me. His faith journey is one so many of us have experienced. I marvel at how God reaches out and draws us up out of the mess in such different was. What a God. Thank you
Great interview and great words from Philip. At the end I really appreciated how you explained how writing a biography should help the reader not merely learn more about the author, but also about themselves. And, your biography also did something else for your brother - who obviously suffered a lot from the rigid and frankly spiritually abusive experience of growing up. He felt your old his story rightly and hoped people could understand better his life story and why he had done the things he had done. (And also thank you for telling your story as well as the story of your own rigid mother and how even when your brother wrote the words “I forgive you”, that she still didn’t quite understand what she need forgiveness for. - I had a rigid mother also and know the sort of pain you grew up under and why a blind self righteous grace less mother can be like - and I also had to come to a place of forgiveness for her)
Anyhow, what struck me was the power and relief that your brother felt from you telling his story.
John Eldridge write a very powerful book about what heaven will be like titled “All Things New”. And one chapter in particular brought me to tears of strange joy and longing. In it he described this: that in heaven we will finally be known and truly known because our story will finally be told and told rightly.
That brought me to tears because we are so often misunderstood. Or even confused for much of our lives ourselves. But God knows us, our story, our hears, what has happened to us and the wounds we have taken . And why we did certain things or were reacting to things. And he also has come to us with his grace and mercy - to reach us. Like he gave you a flash vision to help you see your true condition of being this bloodied and beaten up traveler who was actually spitting in the face of Jesus who was in this case the good Samaritan trying to help you and he was not really like the religious Pharisee. This was God’s true heart toward you and all who choose to seek him and not reject him. He keeps knocking and reaching out.
But that concept of us finally having our story told rightly is a powerful one. We will finally see others and others will see us as God has always seen us and we will finally be able to know and understand and be kind and extend grace to that individual - finally knowing all they have been through and why they made both the bad and the food choices and behaviors that they made.
As long as we keep seeking after God and his goodness, his grace is sufficient for all things.
The honesty so profound...thank you to you both...
What a great interview! Thank you both so much.
I love Yancey’s articulate discussions and his chuckles. I taught with his brother in law Roger.
I have made the comment that there are two writers whose works, while reading them, give me a real sense of God's presence: C. S. Lewis and Philip Yancey.
Wow. One of your best ever podcasts. Thank you so much, Mr. N.
Grace, grace, God’s grace! I loved this interview so much
Wonderful interview
We can deconstruct our faith without trading God
Powerful Testimony Thank you for sharing
Wow! So touching his story.. God bless you two!!❤
So encouraging, thank-you brothers.
Great interview and testimony. I’ve never heard his background and it certainly shows the grace and will of God.
Wow! Thank you so much, it is just what I needed! Beautiful story of a life of grace!
That was amazing. I have read several of his books and have heard parts of his story but never in quite this detail. Thank you so much.
Stay with this interview.. it just gets better and better. Lord, only you could orchestrate “pain redeemed.”❤️ I praise your name!
The best nugget I have picked up so far out of this is what Philip said about finding something that's a problem to himself and writing about that. In the early stages of shifting to writing a blog I guess it would be called, and I'm sitting here going - well I don't really want to count followers and try to figure out am I popular, but I do want to make sure I'm writing something for three. So Phillips explanation of some people say get one person in mind right to that person, but that doesn't really work for him, I get that! And I now feel affirmed to just keep on working on things that God puts on my heart to dig into, study out, and post on Azelda's Legacy.
I also would have to say that the Tim Keller/CS Lewis quote is priceless!
What a beautiful soul…a Spirit filled man!
What a beautiful man, and what an immense and profound witness. I want to read that book "The Jesus I Never Knew." Thank you for this intimate sharing. Wow, you sure have had a life. And you've used it.
This was soooo good!! Thank you! Thank you!! Thank you!!!
So beautiful. Thank you!!
Wow, what an awesome interview. THANK YOU
this is the best interview Cary, thank u so much, I was moved to!
Great conversation! Thanks for sharing.
Tjankypu for the telling.
Brilliant interview. Thank you.
"Pain redeemed impresses me more than pain removed." 1:16:32
That statement stood out to me also. What a deep insight!
Spectacular interview. So very important, and am so grateful. It occurred to me a great interview would also be the wise, and delightful Sally Lloyd-Jones.
Thank you Carey for your brilliant interviewing. This conversation was heavy and moving. Love your work.
I have good news for Philip, once saved always saved! God will not let you go no matter how you deconstruct Him.
That is actually NOT true. You obviously don't know certain key scriptures from the Bible. Hebrews Chapter 6 says that once a person falls away, they cannot be returned . The Son of Man cannot be re-crucifued afresh and be put to an open shame.
Mathew 12:32b says that whoever blasphemes the Holy Spirit cannot be forgiven, in this life, or the next.
So, yes, it is possible to lose your salvation permanently and irreversably.
@@foureyedchickHebrews 6 goes much beyond that. I'm 51 and now have way more questions than answers. I remember when I had all my theology neat and tidy!!! I miss that
That just meant so much to me. Thank you.
Sören Kierkegaard wrote, not with a specific individual or type of individual in mind, but with his "single solitary reader" in mind. This helps me with my writing. It becomes a conversation with a single person who is willing and interested in listening.
Thanks Cary, great interview.
So refreshing. Thank you 🙏
Thank you both.
Man, I like Philip Yancey, red his books, I didn't know his story, what a great story. Thx Cary, thank u Philip for your encouragement!
Carey this interview and the one with Gord MacDonald are my favourites. So powerful and authentic ❤️🙏
"Pain redeemed is better than pain removed". Thank you both for this interview and discussion.
"Pain redeemed"? Someone needs to explain this. It makes no sense. How do you redeem pain? I don't understand the word redeem in this context.
I have heard of the Ham curse thing, but never heard it in a fundamental church growing up. Not everyone had the same experience as you did.
Best wishes in your walk.
re: the Ham curse - nor did I ever hear about the racist Ham curse...I heard the Biblical reason why it was NOT about race, from a very conservative biblical teacher. He explained how the racist interpretation was the result of carelessness with Scripture. Never saw white supremacy honored in any fundamental church I was in. You are right. Not everyone had the same experiences. Even though the SBC had a racist background, and that was the church I was raised in, I never heard a peep of negativity, only messages of “all people equally valuable, loved, free'' etc., and my parents' words and actions around all colors and classes exemplified those values with joy. Fundamental churches as a whole get a bad rap for the failures of some, it would appear.
So profound. Thank you both
Glad you enjoyed it!
I appreciated this conversation and I related some of Philip's story and background. The part about "being offended" and therefore people are leaving the church simply is not an accurate statement in the big picture of what is happening with deconstruction. Yes, there are those who have left because of hurtful experiences but this issue is way deeper than that kind of cliche statement from yesteryear. There are many reasons and current factors involved related to this current phenomenon. Connecting with God also goes beyond showing up in a building on Sunday morning.
Wow, amazing to think 🤔 he read and wrote so much
Amazing story!
Thanks for sharing!
Beautiful, insightful, redemptive interview; I love it! Hope to get the book and read it slowly soon.
Read your Bible not thoughts of fallible man.
@@JC-sj2pd If we shouldn't read the thoughts of fallible man, then why should we read your comment?
@@JC-sj2pd Did you listen to this video? You represent what drives people away. How sad.
Does the world really need this book yet you have to find your slant by seeing what others did??? 🧐
1987, Yancey accompanied White to a gay pride march in Washington.
Thank you for this amazing interview !!!!!!!
Thanks for listening
Thank you for sharing in earnest your story.
Thanks for listening
In my prayers these days, I ask the LORD to lead me to refreshing content... As a people in ministry, my husband and I walk the fine line of giving vs not giving out. Today the LORD gave me a doozie and goodness! Thank heavens for what He is doing through you and Philip Yancey. When I saw his picture I started spinning my mental rolodex and thinking there was something sort of radical about him though I could not put my finger on it. Almost like s flashback to my long past PBS memories of folks that would turn out to be fairly radical liberals...during the years I measured if maybe I was becoming more and more liberal in my own ... Now I want to go back and read Mr. Yancey past and present. Finally, how the LORD tied up your interview and visit with Mr. Yancey was delightful.Thank you again.
1x(5/20/22)…1….15….47…..1:02:00…riveting story I wasn’t going to finish…..Great story teller….Great interviewer….1:07:00…..done thank you
Powerful. Thank you.
Such a wonderful interview. I don’t usually let long videos hijack my day… but this one was totally worth it!
The story of Yancy's dad suffering with polio reminds me of my uncle who got polio during his medical internship, was in an iron lung for a year, became wheel-chair bound for the rest of his life and had a career working for the government overseeing vaccine development by pharmaceuticals and universities - that was fighting the devil he knew..
Holding fast to the fundamental doctrines of the Bible, not giving them up to the demands of liberal/modernist theology, is a good thing to do. That's what "fundamentalism" was, originally. But it came to represent an attitude that includes the things that are described in this interview. "Fighting Fundamentalism" began with true believers in Jesus, defending Bible doctrines, but in the flesh. It was adopted by those churchgoers who wanted to believe that a fleshly adherence to conservative doctrine, without any particular personal knowledge of Jesus through as n indwelling Holy Spirit, is what it took to be saved and acceptable. That got lots of its way of life from cold-blooded Calvinism, with many wanting their infant baptism to separate them from the rejected-by-God-for-all-eternity, whom they were satisfied to believe God created with no hope of salvation at all, just because He wanted for all eternity to throw them in hell. So this hard-boiled, fleshly, ungodly point of view, came to be the meaning of people who just were not willing to concede the interpretation of the Bible to unbelieving, "Noble Lie" creators. Now it has been redefined as murderous terrorism, and "evangelical" is being made to follow the same trajectory. "Everyone knows" that evangelical equates "Trumper" right? Well, it doesn't mean that at all. It means the kind of Christian whose Christianity is about the gospel of salvation, and telling that to everyone on the world, as Jesus commanded. It is not anything to do with _controlling_ people, through coercion, politics or violence.
_Sinless perfectionism_ should never have been called fundamentalism, because it is denied so clearly in the Bible. "If we say we have no sin, we lie, and the truth in not in us. If we confess our sin, He is just and willing to forgive us our sin, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have no sin, we make God a liar..." But that would be to care about the meanings of words, and the meaning of God's word, for that matter. We can hope people will, but we can't keep the words and names from being twisted to mean their opposites. We have to do our best, but ultimately depend on the Holy Spirit to get people out from under the confusion.
By the way, faith in Jesus is not the same thing as faith in "church".
I liked your comment. 👍 But I would double-like your last sentence, if YT had that option.
INot a good title. had some trepidation when I started to listen to this interview . I thought , here we go, yet another evangelical becoming an evan-jelly-cal. but it was a tender touching story.
Beautiful & painful story
"God is not a bully." I love this, growing up, I believed this as well. Not sure why, other than bad theology as a child in a very unfriendly Roman Catholic church.
I am frustrated with the deconstruction movement, not because it is happening, but because there are those who are being labeled as deconstructing who are really denying, and those who are truly deconstructing to reconstruct.
A lot of people's faith doesn't survive the process of deconstruction.
Many "Christians" don't seem to get the true spirit meaning of righteous and of sin and repentance.
Righteous ---- means to think correctly or think like God would and to act or do as God would do.. Only one man ever did that... the Christ (Messiah)
Sin --- is different from trespasses.. the one, trespasses is the outward deeds, while the other, Sin, is the inner thoughts and perceptions that are mixed up, screwed up, devilish, or off key. (missing the mark in your thinking.
Repentance --- is also another concept so often mistranslated from metanoia (meaning a change of mind or perceptions.
When we become born by the spirit and have a changed mind/heart, a new creation occurs and we become slaves of righteousness, we start thinking better, even though never perfectly in this mortal body.
If any man says he has no wrong thinking (missing the mark, sin) he is a liar and the truth is not in him. - brother Paul
The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching. For Scripture says, “Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain,” and “The worker deserves his wages.” Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses. But those elders who are sinning you are to reprove before everyone, so that the others may take warning. I charge you, in the sight of God and Christ Jesus and the elect angels, to keep these instructions without partiality, and to do nothing out of favoritism. - 1 Timothy 5:17-21
Yes! Thank you for this. Also some “ex-Vangelical” want to embrace sin and seek a church that accepts the sins of the world in order to be the same as the world.
JESUS said if a brother is sinning go to him alone, just you and him privately. And if he will hear you, you have gained your brother, but if he will not hear you... take with you one or two more. Then if he will not hear them, then bring him before the church (assembly).
Maybe that's implied in the verses you cited above, but it seems clear the order of confronting someone over sin.
For love covers a multitude of sins.
You don't go straight to reproving before everyone. Not for anyone. Jesus says, "one is your teacher, even Christ, and ALL ye are brethren."
I lived in a 48 footer about a year, i had battling parents who were Southern Baptist 😮. HORRIFIC experiences with pedophiles 😢
Amazing interview Carey!
Thank you for your open heartedness and transparency. It was truly moving. I have a comment. I don’t see leaving the church and God as synonymous. You seem to see leaving the church the same as leaving God. At least that is what you said several times. You can leave your evangelical church and still love God. Find a church that sees God as you see him. Find your tribe of believers. I did. No more evangelical church for me.
Yes! Thank you. Have you listened to Frank Viola's podcasts on TH-cam? He also left the church and teaches about what the true ecclesia really is --- a living, participatory, organic Body of Believers functioning as God intended. Not the "one mouth, and a audience of ears" as the church has been since century 2.
The ecclesia is made up of all Believers, using their gifts in participation in the gathering, to edify each other and exalt Christ as the center of all things.
The church at present is basically a corporation:
The Pastor = the company president
The elders = the supervisors
The deacons = the managers
The attendees = the employees/workers (volunteers, really)
The sermon = inter-office memos or seminars