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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ม.ค. 2018
- Seep PM2 Points Motors.
Video V.28
In this video I look at installing Seep PM2 point on to the existing track work with an experiment to use 16v as my point power to understand how these perform - My advice after concluding this test I invested into a CDU discharge unit as it provides a punch for point changing without the buzz.
A unit will power many points if not thrown at the same time. (dependant on layout size.)
* Don't forget you will need to use On / OFF / ON toggle switches to throw the points as the switch needs to settle to the Off position.
Advantages
Good clean point action. Can operate two motors at the same time.
Very reliable. CDU powered Recommended.
Very reasonably priced as a product.
Disadvantages
Fast change over.
Click noise as they change.
A little tricky to instal but think anything like this sits under this comment.
My Rating
9 out 10
From a product and performance angle these are great and I still use these today, Aside a little noisy on change over.
But these still do the job as intended at a fraction of the cost. I would certainly recommend these.
Prototypical view.
** If you're looking from a prototypical angle then a quieter - slower option may be need to be considered.
Don't forget you can follow my journey here on TH-cam and at www.cheekytek.com as I progress deeper in to the realms of railway modelling.
All the Best Garry. - บันเทิง
I stopped the video at 11 minutes and 18 seconds.
The picture on the screen at that point in time is the BEST explanation of how to wire a point and switch that I have seen ANYWHERE on the internet.
Sometimes one picture can be better than a thousand words.
Hi Graham
Lol yeah I know what you mean, I watch so many videos on how someone does something but it’s can throw out the wrong message if one step is not clearly shown,
And something I’ve taken on more when I’ve a project, I do try to capture in the best way so thank you for taking time on my channel
I know it has helped many but hope this is successful too
All the best Garry
Very nice “how to” Garry, very well explained, was disappointed when you wife would not make you a cup of tea. My advice would be to use a CDU, the CDU I use will handle about 5 sets of point motors. Not only do they give a more precise switching of the points it protects the point motors from too much charge, which burns them out over time…Simon
Hello Simon, yeah.. Ive ordered one so will be here end of week, it was always going to be my plan but wanted to fit motors and switches first to the effect as to what people have said in other video's...
The wife bought me tea with Two fingers.. do you believe that... 🤔
A twix and tea just does not go together... lol
cheers buddy
Garry
Hello Cheekytek, I would agree , there does now seem to be a desire to " throw money at everything " in this hobby .
It`s good to see someone using a straightforward system again . Although you mentioned your desire not to use a
CDU , I would urge you to reconsider this . The modest outlay would be well rewarded . One CDU will power the entire
point system ; the risk of burning out the motors would be eliminated , so to would the buzzing noise , and it will have
the power to move two points simultaneously . Keep up the good work , It`s a brilliant layout ,and I always enjoy the
way you present your videos. Regards , Paddy Owen .
Wow Many Thanks Paddy,
I do have intentions to add one as I’m at aware that it will reduce burn out and punch more power.. I really appreciate your comment on this, and very valuable..
I try to build in the most simplest way to suit all ages, as the industry has cashed in on this hobby to suit a higher earning audience, yes we can all follow that but where’s the imagination like we both say..
Many thanks my friend for following my passion and journey..
All the best Garry
irene forward - agree a cdu is well worth it.
Many Thanks.
I now have one fitted and your right in saying so, it’s quieter now and each point has good punch to spring across..
Cheers again 😉 👍
Hi Garry, a great video mate for showing people how to install these sort of point motors, well done buddy and have fun using your new toys!! ;-) Cheers for now. ...........Graham
I've only completed one section but having a real ball playing trains, just wished i'd added them years ago, but to be honest I never had the confidence back then to what i've learnt since being on youtube..
So yeah all is good kidd.... now back to playing trains... I Love it...... lol
👍😂
cheers buddy
Garry
Great video Garry. Welcome to the world of point motors. Just be thankful you have insulfrog points and don't have to worry about switching the polarity. lol. Been building my panel for the switches this weekend so I hope to crack on with installing more point motors very soon. Cheers, Jamie (oh and thanks for mentioning my sleeper tip) ;)
No worries Jamie on the sleeper tip...
I haven't stopped playing trains since adding switching points.. so having a ball at the moment.
Ive still got the other side to do, but waiting for payday as need to place an order with Rapid online for more wire.. and other bits... lol
yeah.... live points / polarities / etc... your now the master of that... lol
Exciting times for us both...
cheers again mate..
😉👍
Your video was very helpful on installing point motors I use the peco surface mounted ones I find them very good
Cheers Anthony, these kinds of projects are not easy to cover in true detail but thank you for your comments..
Many Thanks Garry
Cracking video Garry, definitely echo what the other guy's have said about a CDU.
I'm looking forward to the shunting video.
Take care mate
Michael
Cheers Michael, and yes very sound advise indeed.... just ordered one so will be here end of week... 😉👍
initially I always planned to fit solenoids first so i knew were I was heading... I just need to hold off playing trains till CDU arrives ... lol
Thanks for looking out for me.
Garry
wow amazing job Garry! wish i had the skill and confidence to do something like that...another dimension now added to that five star layout! cheers dave
davestrains .....Dave , old me fred did them , a man of your layout talents would have no bother .....at first it’s a bit of a head scratcher.....fred
Dave thanks for you awesome comment.. to be honest as Fred has mentioned it was easier than i thought and its all very explanatory with the instructions etc...
I just thought I'd give it a go.... and wow does it make a difference, I can't stop playing shunting now.. lol
all the best Garry
Garry that was a well explained video, I have a CDU for my points and there is less noise... cheers Rog.
I've got one in the post so will be here end of week...
sound advise Roger..
Many thanks Garry
Hi Garry hope you all had a great xmas great video I've got over 300 points on my layout so yes it's fun with the point motors see you on the next one m8 cheers Dave at TI
Blooming hell.. Dave lol
That’s intense..
All was fab long gone now getting back to normality lol..
Cheers again mate.. G
Hi Garry, great instructional video.................congrats.....Cheers Greg
Thanks Greg..
all the best buddy.. Garry
Nice vid sir....I’ve just started to add point motors.....I planned to do an age ago but like yourself found it better for running sessions ....regards Fred
Fred your so correct, I never was interested in point control until I finished the second depot which was crying out for a shunting video and now I get to play and film a new video which is on the way..
Thanks again Fred..
All the best Garry
Hi Garry - thanks heaps - your videos are always interesting and entertaining but this one was absolutely excellent. Hope you have a great 2018. Regards Darryl
Nice work Garry. I have a similar setup but use a 12V DC supply which is quieter and easily handles 2 points at once for crossovers.
Hi Gerry, oh wow that's interesting, do you have a CDU unit added to that...?
No CDU fitted. What I have been experimenting with recently is an old PC power supply that gives 3.3V, 5V and 12V with lots of current on each. Very handy for LED lighting etc etc
Okay... interesting...
Yeah I have an PC supply that I use for when Im doing electronic testing etc.. there very handy..
just not used it on the layout as I have 12v modules for lighting.. etc..
cool
thanks again buddy..
A little word of warning to others, I tried installing point motors to points already in situ like how you did Garry a pilot hole from top then a 10mm drill bit from underneath but went too far up and drilled the spring mechanism, tie bar etc out had to send off to Peco to get them to replace the parts. Great video and info
Oh yeah that will do them no good 😑 eek, sorry to hear your dilemmas 🙈 and hope all is working now.
NOPE not the best way to automate points, and not the way to lay track in this fashion lol - but sometimes we change are minds at the last minute and see how to compromise where we are..
For me I would have ended up ripping a whole lot of track out that I doubt I could save, then to be replaced once holes were done correctly - so this is obversely a gamble situation that I took and Not for the faint hearted.
Love your comment and this a great top tip, so very appreciated buddy.
Keep safe and all the best Garry.
Hi Garry,
Nice video to show people how to use the seeps, I am sure you will like being able to control them remotely from now on. A little tip.. When trying to centre the point try using abit of small wire (I used 7/0.2 wire) between both of the blades, It centred mine perfectly but I had removed the spring so not 100% sure it'd work. Cheers, Michael
Great tip Michael, I’ll try that..
Life is certainly easier now playing trains lol..
Cheers again Garry
I added a couple more solenoids today and used your little tip.. God that was so much easier..
Big Thanks. 😉 👍👍👍
cheekytek Awesome! Glad it helped 👍
Nice one mate. Believe it or not I brought my Seep point motors with me to Canada and they are still going strong - I bought them over 20 years ago...not owned by Gaugemaster back then. simple but effective. Mark
20 Years. Wow.....
Yeah the seep PM2 are OK I've been using now for a week and certainly impressed with these, I have added a CDU unit to punch the point of which protects the life of them and takes any buzz noise away.. looks like I've now caught up with the world of points.. lol
cheers Garry..
Hi Gary mate. it was great to see you at the Alton fed ex.I use the pm2 as you probably have seen. but I drill my holes when I'm laying the points out as it can be a bit dodgy drilling up towards the point from underneath, but it works which is great and its a cheaper alternative. that's why I use them I rather spend the money where it counts. rolling stock......all the best Tony
Hello buddy, thanks again for meeting up at Alton, it made the day magically for us all catching up..
Preparing the point work lol... Yeah I should of had that in mind when laid the track, but you know me I never do things the easy way, but it was a good exercise to perform knowing this is still possible.. lol
Tony I Totally agree on the cost of a great product saving for other goodies.. it’s just the hiked up cost of rolling stock that grates me.
I’ll have a little play with all my new toys tomorrow, so that will give the wife a break.. 😁😁
Cheers again for today..
All the best Garry
meeting up with you guys made my day to. your shed still looks bigger on the tube, take care regards Tony
Hi Garry, nicely explained. I'm not far off what you are doing, finding it time consuming and some motors don't get enough power to fire first time, find that a bit difficult to understand. I to have drilled from under, and a deft touch is certainly needed, well done. I have primarily used peco surface point motors , just for ease of use as 34 units required and as you say cost is a factor. Cheers Jerry
Sorry Jerry I missed replying to your comment, i probably did it all arse first.. as i only started drilling holes for the points when I started these point installs,and yes slow and cautious is the key....
i have to say I found it all fairly straight forward and not as trick as I first thought.. lining up the point accurately was challenging but not impossible, and Ive just added a CDU unit which pretty much snaps them over..
cost is the real factor as you've mentioned.. but glad i tackled the world of points.. lol
Cheers Garry
Geat vid garry when i did my vid i forgot to mention the switch but covered that in my last update.
Hi Brian yeah I checked your video out, it was helpful though so I appreciate that..
Cheers again mate.. 👍
G
Great glad it helped they are good quality point motors
They are very good and for £4 for PM2’s I was impressed..
👍
I paid 4.50 for mine a while ago
Good vidio
Great video but a CDU is a must for solenoid points over time without one it can put strain on the power supply but more important you get a nice clean switch and you can easily power more than one point with one switch with no worry of a failure.
Cheers Rob, as you’ve mentioned yeah great sound advice will add one as have a unit on order..
cheers again.. Garry
Great detailed video. You're right in saying not enough clear videos on how point motors work.. I put together a video last year on pm1 motors and made it as clear as possible.. i would say check it out but you're not using electrofrog points.. The cdu will stop the buzzing noise..
Thumbs up!
Tim
Cheers Tim, yeah it’s is one of most featured things but everyone does it a little different.. yeah Looks like I’ll add a CDU at the end of putting in all the motors,
but like you say nobody actually tells you the advantages of using a CDU, but I get it now from doing it..
I guess I’d only need one unit for all as I would only be throwing one point now and again.. ?
Cheers again mate..
Will check your vid out though..
cheekytek I watched video after video. All of them showed only parts of how it works.. I'm using gaugemasters MCDU (mains) so the cdu comes with a built in plug - wire the layout up, plug it in and away you go. This will power all 30+ points on mine as the cdu stores power and will send a burst of juice to which ever point is being thrown.
I did see that Tim, and you were the only one I could see using the MCDU.
I found that very interesting and may go with this option as to how you explained the unit - it’s what I really could do with...
Cheers for this...
Garry
cheekytek as I'm aware I don't think gaugemaster make them anymore. It's worthy of checking around various online shops to see if they have any left for sale if you're heading in that route. For the heads up though - there's one on auction on eBay that ends today! RRP was £25.
Hi Tim, good news I won the MCDU on ebay today.. 😆£12.50 so will have by end of week...
many thanks again for your help....
Garry..
Yep agree with others, would recommend a CDU. You can 'knock one up' for under a tenner. Minimal components.
PJ, cheers mate, have a unit on order so all will be smooth running by end of the week..
thanks again Garry
cheekytek Brilliant! You won't regret. Great details on your layout.
Looks good with the point motors coming together. As others have said, the CDU is a snap to fit, and only a few quid. Definitely makes it worthwhile.
You have any problems with the PM2 and the actual rod that comes up into the point rotating? I used the PM-1s and had a long-running problem with them, which Gaugemaster then acknowledged they'd changed the way they attach the rod. Have found them very unreliable, but need the frog polarity to be switched with the motor, which it doesn't seem the PM2 can provide. Yours look like they're running great though!
Cheers Iain, to be honest I’ve not come across any problems with the actuating arms on the PM2 as they seem to be fairly fixed, as I did look at that theory.
my points are dead frogs so as you see I did not need the feed switch, very interesting and will keep my eye out on that..
Have you thought of putting a small wire connector block screwed to the leg underneath, strip the white plastic off and take out one screw- may be enough to weight it down and nip it in without getting stuck..
I’ll have a little look with mine to see what it dose.. if it helps..
Cheers again Garry
hi great video..
do you not have trouble with stales with the 08 as your points are not live frogs ,or is it a stay alive dcc 08?
Kezza, if you watch the end part of this video were i'm waffling...your see my 08 crawling at 1 speed over two points..😉
its standard bachmann 08 with bachmann decoders...
I don't really have any issues with stalling on points even as insulated frogs.. but all my loco's are newer stock with better pick ups..
Cheers Garry
Hi Gary Another excellent video was there a reason you did not chose to use elctrofrog points ?
It is purely a cost due to having 40 new insulation points available
The layout is built as intended for a demonstration that modelling can be achieved as to a factory standard.
I do aim to build for the enthusiast on a low budget, as the same with all the work I do..
I did find to many layout builds are at top spec and deterring the hobbyist to be creative
I personally have no issues on stalling on points but I do run upgraded loco chassis with a better pickup control
Live Frog points would be preferable but it’s not everyone grasps on how to wire them up.
Cheers 😉👍
Hi, thank you for putting this video up, it will help me with my fitting of point motors. I have 40 second hand ones, i bought from Robin at Milton Mo Junction, last year, he changed gauge. All i have to do is fit a new rod into them. I am using 1mm piano wire, works a treat.
I agree with you about the cost of the hobby, it has gone nuts, even for second hand locomotives and rolling stock. I can see the likes of Hornby and Bachman killing the hobby off for the average person. Quick qusetion, do you have all the switches in series running off the 16v ac slot on the duette ? Great video.
Hello Dave, many thanks for your comment, At the time of doing the video.
I was running all switches off the 16v ac on the duetted and worked a treat,
By chance I was lucky enough to get a Gaugemaster MCDU booster fairly cheap as to a lot of people’s recommendations on CDU’s running seep solenoids PM1 / PM2. (As it Protects the life and takes the buzz out..)
The MCDU has its own power feed that hooks up to the power bus feeding the the middle of the switches and the common return of the solenoid motors..
This now gives just a bit more throw running 1 switch for a pair of points.. thus making the duette redundant..
if using 16vac duette this would be ideal to run a CDU to hook up to your points and switches as I mentioned.
Dave the cost is worrying as we agree, This is why I make as much as I can to deter the easy pay for it option as many do..
It’s the prices of wagons and coaches that have soured because manufacturers know your buy a train cheap then add 20 wagons etc and at 20-40 pounds I’m not playing that game..
I am planning a mini update that will show where I am now with the switching panel and CDU feed..
If you have any problems send me a message as always happy to help..
Thanks again Garry
Hi Gary thanks for the sub and reply. I have started building a layout again, so your video was just what i needed. I will run my layout with my 2 duettes + other controllers. Don't think i will go DCC, would cost me a fortune to chip all my locomotives lol
Dave that’s how I had mine dc and was easy manage. I stepped in to dcc with a high end budget controller - nothing technical but reliable.. lol.
Just added a £15 chip to a loco every month. To honest dcc is great.. but that’s the most I’ve lashed out..
Have a great week mate
All the best Garry
When wiring the point motor and switch dose the blue wire C- point motor to 16vAC to my - bus wire and the blue wire from centre to 16vAC +bus wire
Hi Anthony
sorry for the late reply - my best advise is to look at Brian Lamberts web site on DCC
this is by far the correct way of wiring as he is a master in DCC wiring.. as link below...
www.brian-lambert.co.uk/Electrical_Page_2.html
hope this shines light... Garry
So for basic insulfrog points, its just three wires from the point motor?
Hi Buddy I want to say yes but not sure how you those wire look as you have them. My BEST advice is to head over to the Brian Lambert website as he is the guru in DC / DCC wiring and explains everything in drawing and in writing.
This page link will explain your question more than I can write 👍
www.brian-lambert.co.uk/DCC-Page-1.html
Hope this helps
Garry.
Nice how to. How did you avoid drilling up into the point itself? Very slow and steady I assume. I have fists of ham, so I drilled all mine from the top prior to pinning down the point. With all the mechanism I figure you're not going to notice a bloody big hole underneath! Cheers
Cheers Davie, I drilled a 6mm hole very slowly followed by 10mm to the centre point mark..
as I had cork under the point, the drill eased off as went through. then used a craft knife to pull out the remainder of the cork...
Like many drilling the hole before would of been easiest.. lol. but i was never going to add motors but changed my mind.. like we do... lol
cheers again..
I haven't installed any of them yet, but I intend to use the clothes peg and rod method. Electrics are not my strong suit, so keeping it (stone age) simple is my way to go! Cheers
I've wired exactly how you have with the PM2 but it will only change one way, it won't go back when I flick the switch. (Also have exactly same switches) Any ideas?
Hi Grant, Oooh very strange - Have you re-checked the wire feeds and the wiring diagram again, I'm sure you have.. mmnn yeah thats a good one 🧐 I'm assuming these are loose not fitted tests and not added to the layout as minor pin misalignment can cause it to fail... Okay - I will go down the shed and have a look at my points and see if I can replicate this error.. let me know if some comes emerges..
@@cheekytek your switches are ON/ON switches aren't they?
@@grantfuller5011 No-
On / Off / On
(They sit at OFF until pressed sideways.)
other wise it will burn out the motor 😬
I would recommend a CDU unit to power them as it stops the buzz due to more punch.
Any chance of a link for them please? I have the exact same looking switches but ON/ON. That will be the problem then. Thanks
Found them 😁
Get a cdu mate. Apart from everything else in people's comments it'll take the buzz away. A few quid off eBay done.
Alan.... just won a unit on ebay so will be here end of week... cheers 😉👍
Excellent presentation. As another subscriber suggests, a CDU will be most helpful. If funds are limited, you can make your own (see www.brian-lambert.co.uk) and/or his book A Newcomers Guide to Model Railways. I’m not related or have anything to do with Mr Lambert but the book is in its 5th reprint so speaks for itself! The PM1 with switching would enable live frog switching and LED panel markers which, in itself, is novel and helpful (especially as the layout grows). Best wishes. Bob
Cheers Bob,
You’ve not caught up on the next vides in that series lol 😂
I’ve got a MCDU that powers the lot.. 👍
Yes Brian Lambert is the God in railway wiring I came across him over 3 years ago and his knowledge is outstanding.
And this was what got me back into Railway modelling and running on DCC.
It’s my biggest shout out lol
Great stuff cheers again.
Garry