In the absence of a door-pushing facilitator of any kind, a gym resistance band wrapped around your hips and around the outer handle does a really good job. :) In the meantime, is it OK if any of the phalanxes collapse (straighten out completely) or should I try to keep them curled?
Personally, I'd start with a kind of press-up AWAY from a stationary wall and take out the idea of "resisting" any oncoming force, for the initial period. The student's fifth is collapsing notably under the arm pressure and he also droops his arch when he presses his arm on to it at the piano. The only way to be able to resist oncoming force effortlessly is to first learn to grow into expansion via a feeling for movement and continue trying not to resist collapse, but rather continue trying to expand further still. Without first mastering the movement of expansion, a mindset of merely trying to resist oncoming force tends to be a highly strenuous fight that you can never truly win, no matter how much strength is employed. When it's a simple movement of expansion away from the wall (rather than a fight to stop an oncoming force), you can learn far more stability in the arch with far less muscular effort. Something which is growing cannot be collapsing. Something which is fighting to be fixed into a still position has a far harder battle to win. To find solutions to my own severe collapsing problems, I had to learn to depart completely from a mindset of making the hand resist the collapsing force of arm pressure. Instead I now make it all about expanding the arch out from my arm (sometimes with added arm pressure and sometimes not). It's given me far more power and efficiency than the idea of trying to "resist" with the hand.
I could succeed with the exercise where you're pushing the door, but regardless of how much my arms were to be pressing, my hand could only resist collapse by pressing the arch not into the door but back AWAY from the door (by trying to expand the knuckles away in the opposite direction to the arm pressure). I think it's far easier to learn that necessary kind of expanding action by doing a press-up away from a stationary wall. It's very hard to coordinate that at first, under oncoming force.
cziffra1980 The matter is neither the fifth finger nor the arch. It is the question of opening the arm and the forearm at the elbow while playing - instead of committing a very serious and frequently met error of pushing the whole motor apparatus vertically downward. See Liszt’s “Die Hände müssen mehr schweben, als an den Tasten kleben” - aw4piano.info/en/info2/05
Aleksander Woronicki Ah, I took it as also involving the famous Neuhaus arch. I do still see problems in that respect though, with the attitude of resisting. The arm is squashing the student's hand in this exercise, as he hasn't yet mastered the opening of the arch. This makes it far more difficult to connect an arm like a suspension bridge. I can't see how this connection can be truly achieved if there is any sagging in the arch. I still have problems truly connecting my right arm, due to a tendency to droop on my fifth finger- which breaks the connection. With a standing fifth like that of Rubinstein (to give an extreme example) the arm can connects far better than when I allow it to sag. I've written a post here about the detrimental effect of drooping rather than opening in pianism: pianoscience.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/tonal-control-efficiency-and-health.html I had to learn how to open out the Russian style arch properly (so my hand is not resisting force but simply trying to expand out) before I could address the issue of tending to shove down. The place where I still have to be careful is with my fifth.
Your advices are always enlightening, Maestro.Thank you so much for your passion and professionalism! Ciao
Super en plus nous avons la traduction en français merci beaucoup 😊
Thank you! So glad that I discovered this lesson! So helpful!
In the absence of a door-pushing facilitator of any kind, a gym resistance band wrapped around your hips and around the outer handle does a really good job. :)
In the meantime, is it OK if any of the phalanxes collapse (straighten out completely) or should I try to keep them curled?
Straighten out is always better.
aw4piano.info/en/info2/06
aw4piano.info/en/th/02
@@aw4piano Thank you, was just about to answered that myself as I'm just going through chapter 2 :)
if we do this exercise, lying down and lifting a book like this (with shoulder and arm), it can be the same thing?
Yes, this is the movement, but it should be a heavy book.
Aleksander Woronicki thank you Mr Woronicki.
Personally, I'd start with a kind of press-up AWAY from a stationary wall and take out the idea of "resisting" any oncoming force, for the initial period. The student's fifth is collapsing notably under the arm pressure and he also droops his arch when he presses his arm on to it at the piano. The only way to be able to resist oncoming force effortlessly is to first learn to grow into expansion via a feeling for movement and continue trying not to resist collapse, but rather continue trying to expand further still. Without first mastering the movement of expansion, a mindset of merely trying to resist oncoming force tends to be a highly strenuous fight that you can never truly win, no matter how much strength is employed. When it's a simple movement of expansion away from the wall (rather than a fight to stop an oncoming force), you can learn far more stability in the arch with far less muscular effort. Something which is growing cannot be collapsing. Something which is fighting to be fixed into a still position has a far harder battle to win.
To find solutions to my own severe collapsing problems, I had to learn to depart completely from a mindset of making the hand resist the collapsing force of arm pressure. Instead I now make it all about expanding the arch out from my arm (sometimes with added arm pressure and sometimes not). It's given me far more power and efficiency than the idea of trying to "resist" with the hand.
I could succeed with the exercise where you're pushing the door, but regardless of how much my arms were to be pressing, my hand could only resist collapse by pressing the arch not into the door but back AWAY from the door (by trying to expand the knuckles away in the opposite direction to the arm pressure). I think it's far easier to learn that necessary kind of expanding action by doing a press-up away from a stationary wall. It's very hard to coordinate that at first, under oncoming force.
cziffra1980 The matter is neither the fifth finger nor the arch. It is the question of opening the arm and the forearm at the elbow while playing - instead of committing a very serious and frequently met error of pushing the whole motor apparatus vertically downward. See Liszt’s “Die Hände müssen mehr schweben, als an den Tasten kleben” - aw4piano.info/en/info2/05
Aleksander Woronicki Ah, I took it as also involving the famous Neuhaus arch. I do still see problems in that respect though, with the attitude of resisting. The arm is squashing the student's hand in this exercise, as he hasn't yet mastered the opening of the arch. This makes it far more difficult to connect an arm like a suspension bridge. I can't see how this connection can be truly achieved if there is any sagging in the arch. I still have problems truly connecting my right arm, due to a tendency to droop on my fifth finger- which breaks the connection. With a standing fifth like that of Rubinstein (to give an extreme example) the arm can connects far better than when I allow it to sag. I've written a post here about the detrimental effect of drooping rather than opening in pianism:
pianoscience.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/tonal-control-efficiency-and-health.html
I had to learn how to open out the Russian style arch properly (so my hand is not resisting force but simply trying to expand out) before I could address the issue of tending to shove down. The place where I still have to be careful is with my fifth.
it remains me to the partner exercise in Tai Chi, also called pushing hands
I need Help with Op.740 Etude 14 and 28
What's the name of the piece at the end of the video? Thank you.
Liszt - "La Vallée d'Obermann"
Ok !!!
👍😊
I dont own a door 😭
you can stand vertical but lean slightly forward again a wall and push the wall.