More COCTEAU TWINS Reactions: Garlands: th-cam.com/video/zlJcpyqD3kY/w-d-xo.html Head over Heels: th-cam.com/video/zU6RkKBgrIo/w-d-xo.html Victorialand: th-cam.com/video/R12JPJjjeW0/w-d-xo.html The Moon and the Melodies: th-cam.com/video/_DgSxUsXG3c/w-d-xo.html Blue Bell Knoll: th-cam.com/video/E9HRVtedK5s/w-d-xo.html Heaven or Las Vegas: th-cam.com/video/NDVuDgzflgo/w-d-xo.html Four Calendar Café: th-cam.com/video/RFyzAmTOtBI/w-d-xo.html Milk and Kisses: th-cam.com/video/rynVnz0fSQk/w-d-xo.html
it seems to me that you are listening to this album the wrong way. you're judging it by what dream pop became years later. to truly appreciate this album you must consider the time in which it was recorded. in short, keep in mind that in 1984 this album really stood out with soundscapes people hadn't experienced before. for the teenage Gen Xers at the time it was literally mind blowing and expanding. This was truly not our parent's music. Also, Treasure essentially is the conception of dream-pop. as such it's not what we today would consider pure dream-pop as it contains strong elements of post-punk which you hear on the harder edge songs like Persephone. what dream pop is now has had 30 plus years since this recording to be established and refined.
The Bearded Seeker no one at the time or since sounds like her. It blew my mind when it came out and i listen to it still. Labels don’t matter. It’s a snowflake and a diamond.
I agree 100% All the dreampop and post rock and “ambient” stuff today all draws it’s inspiration from the trail that Robin Guthrie blazed. Cocteau Twins didn’t have the benefit of a “dreampop formula” to follow or build off of, the Twins were literally writing the formula song to song and album to album. Not to mention that dreampop/Shoegaze musicians are spoiled today in terms of effects pedals options that are built from the ground up to create dreampop sounds at the push of a button and in some cases are even named after classic dreampop/shoegaze bands. Back in their day the average listener/player had no clue how Robin was making all those heavenly sounds which made it all the more magical. Today you can literally buy any one of a number of high end reverb/delay units and turn a few knobs and you’re instantly into Cocteau Twins/slowdive territory. So the bearded seeker has it 100% right. You have to consider the context of when these albums were released both in terms of the infancy of the genre itself and the limitations of the technology available at the time.
Well written assessment. Treasure was my 'gateway' album as a teen to an 'alternative' way of seeing the world. I'll never forget the first track I heard - 'Persephone', it truly sounded like it comes from another world. Japan even renamed this album - 'The Woman Whom the Gods Loved'. Still sounds great to this day, and this isn't even their best album either!
Very good points! You have to see it in context; intrinsically a reaction to Punk and it's farcical simplicity, the Cocteau Twins and other bands were developing their music to create more sophisticated and imaginative music. It is very much Post-Punk and don't forget the "New Romantic" "genre" in '80's Pop Music that was a more populist attempt to create more sophisticated music.
To me, this album goes beyond Dream Pop. The stereotypical Dream Pop sounds too urban and young-related, and too focused on "aesthetic" but not much more than that. Cocteau Twins, on the other hand, is more spiritual and ethereal.
This album was my introduction to Cocteau Twins and will always be my nostalgic favorite among their many great records. Victorialand is super lush and slow and ambient. Quieter than this one but really dreamy
Robert Smith from The Cure fell in love with this album he once stated he played it while getting ready on his wedding day. Robert was in awe of how the band's sound came across so effortlessly and loved the production as well as the music.
The drums on Treasure are pure sex. When in doubt run that drum machine through a guitar amp’s distortion channel. Early engineers told Robin he couldn’t do that, but thankfully he didn’t listen and did it anyway.
Liz Fraser and Jeff Buckley co-wrote a song called, All Flowers in Time. It is gorgeous. If you haven’t heard it, I would highly recommend that you give it a listen. The ending of Ivo is stunning. Jeff was hugely influenced by them. You can really hear it in that deep, atmospheric reverb.
It’s funny, how you describe Cocteau Twins and how you describe Beach House are reversed for me. While I am a Beach House fan, they can get very droney to my ears to the point where it’s hard to keep my full attention on the music (except for their songs with more defined melodies like Myth). Treasure just gets me every time, it’s so captivating. When it comes to 80s Cocteau Twins, some of their best tracks didn’t appear on a proper album - like Orange Appled, Aikea Guinea, Those Eyes That Mouth, Kookaburra, From the Flagstones, etc. I highly recommend investigating their EPs and their other albums too.
Seeing them live on the last 3 albums was sonically thick. Along with Robin, they had THREE additional guitarists to give the music that HEAVY wall of sound. Not to mention a real drummer and a percussionist. It all came together live…and then they broke up.
It’s interesting hearing your opinion on this album. Beatrix is my favourite song of all time. It spoke to my soul in a way no other song has. I can’t explain it.
If you're looking for more of an immediate album by Cocteau Twins, check out definitely their previous one, Head Over Heels, in a way more primitive and post punk but almost on par in terms of melodies and atmospheres, definitely note it somewhere cause I think you'd get something out of that
Funny thing is, I can never really just zone out to Cocteau Twins. Albums like Garlands, Head Over Heels, and Milk & Kisses throw so much at you. As does Treasure. Plus, all their EPs (almost always with songs exclusive to one release) are very important and show the band's progression through each era.
They ride a weird line like that. The compositions can be fairly progressive and sprawling, but they sprinkle interesting moments in that can catch your attention.
I have recommended A sky of honey by Kate Bush as an ultimate dream pop song sequence that simply takes you through a 24 hours cycle from morning till the next dawn. The counterpart to this, it's The ninth wave, a song cycle that follows a woman lost in the sea for a whole night. Arguably the most lavish production of the 80's.
I feel like 90% of the internet is about the discussion whether there were real lyrics of early days Cocteau Twins, haha. So cool, thanks for doing this video. Suggestions for videos in the future: "No need to argue" by The Cranberries, "The Lion and the cobra" by Sinéad O'Connor or "Silences" by Adia Victoria. :)
Alex. I'd really like it if you reviewed two albums from little-known band 'Shriekback' - who provided music for the Hannibal Lecter involving movie 'Manhunter'. The albums are 'Care' and 'Oil & Gold'. Quite brilliant.
Before "Gothic" was dumbed down to "Goth", I was into, what at the time was being called, "Gothic" music, or what probably should've been called "Post-Gothic" or "Neo-Gothic" music, seeing that what was originally called "Gothic" music was from around the 1200's AD, but I digress. I got into Cocteau Twins in the mid 80's, when the "Gothic" thing was still going strong. Cocteau Twins were, and remain my all time favorite band, with their 1st album, "Garlands", being my favorite record (by anyone). Having said that, "Persephane" is my all time favorite song (by anyone), and the cover for "Treasure", all time favorite album cover. Oddly enough I don't like Dreampop and I really don't like Shoegaze, so I've always had a problem with people saying Cocteau Twins are Dreampop, or that they were the fathers of Dreampop. IMO, genres are not started by what most people call the 1st band to do it, but by the second band, who was seriously influenced by the 1st band (It's kinda like how a pair of footprints isn't a trail to follow. It's only after the 2nd set of footprints that a direction is created). Their attempt to emulate the 1st band is never going to be exactly the same, but for some reason, I've found in most cases, the 2nd band becomes bigger, even though, IMO, their music is often times not as good. For example, Duran Duran was a hugh success, but they, by their own words, would've never existed if it weren't for Roxy Music, who, IMO, created way, way more better music. In the case of Dreampop I consider Slowdive (I only like their 1st 2 albums, and no where near as much as I like all of Cocteau Twins) to be the 1st Dreampop band, and Cocteau Twins, maybe, the grandparents of that sound (especially their releases after Blue Bell Knoll). Back in the day, people thought they must've descended from the Gods, their sound was so ethereal, and, just like with their music, there was a mystery about them, as people. In the early 90's I got to know them, a little, in the. They were very nice people, and very down to earth. Ordinary people making, IMO, the most extraordinary music ever created by....anyone.
I totally agree that The Cocteau Twins have never been a dreampop band, and I don't care about dreampop very much (and all the easy-listening connotation of that genre). In the early eighties their records were in the New Wave section of record stores (I don't remember the term "post-punk" being used back then). The only almost comparable band was Dead Can Dance, although still light years away, both bands being extremely original. I like some Duran Duran songs but like you I think they were kind of derivative, also heavily influenced by Japan, and commercially much more successful because, as you say, they were the "second band".
My picks for this album are: Ivo and Pandora (For Cindy) especially Pandora (For Cindy) !!!! i love how this album feel kind of .... scary.... deep... especially toward the end of the album, it kind of feel like the feeling of feeling apart, losing something, but not trying to find a reason.... i don't know how to explain. its special!!! i love it alot :)) Tell me what u think
The strange thing with this album is that is sound indeed 'drony' and kinda generic at first listen. If you listen to it a couple of more times, all the songs grow and becomes like glue in your head. Fantastic album.
Alex -- This is a long read, but it's well worth the effort. The "Treasure" album is euphoric and essentially a collection of soundscapes, where the Cocteau Twins were gauging their "sound". Many, many people are going to tell you, that the Cocteau Twins are "not" Dream-Pop or Shoegaze and I hope to dispel those connotations -- right now, if I may. Their information comes from a heavily, flawed and mistaken "mini-documentary" series, which tries to pinpoint the exact terminology, between what is "Dream-Pop" and "Shoegaze". Most, newbie listeners, by which, I mean anyone who's been listened to them, for less than 20 years, is probably way, way off ... !!! I've been a Cocteau Twins aficionado + superfan since 1982, so I'm going out on a limb here to say, after almost 40 years of dedication -- I believe, I know this band really well. Again, it's about who was there in the 80's and who wasn't. In 1983, there was a 4AD "Press Release Party" for the release of the Cocteau Twins new album, "Head Over Heals". Robin Guthrie, Simon Raymonde and Elizabeth Fraser were essentially forced to be there by Ivo Watts-Russell to make interviews. Already, then in 1983, Elizabeth Fraser had to deal with, the constant and unrelenting questions, regarding Elizabeth's "lyrics" -- Yes, there are lyrics, both Robin and Simon either saw or helped write them; plus, I the have the lyrics also. However the questions always seemed to focus on "her vocalizations" and what was she saying. Consequently, Liz became upset, because she wanted to focus on the new album, not her lyrics. Elizabeth didn't want to explain herself, yet again; plus, the three of them were already extremely media-shy anyway. However, there was one magazine editor from Germany, who previously stated, "[Elizabeth Fraser] she's just 'mouth singing' ". This pompous-ass, had an obvious problem with British bands, preferring to "tout the musings of the German-Underground" music scene. He pressured Elizabeth ino an interview and pressed the issue about her lacking lyrics and asked if the Cocteaux were, in fact, apart of the "Dark-Wave", "Death Rock" or "Doom Rock" (pre-Goth terms) as apart of the relevant music scene, or should the Cocteaux be placed, somewhere outside of that world -- entirely? Anybody, who knows -- her personally; or, knows of Elizabeth Fraser understands, she is very mild-tempered and wouldn't outwardly decent into open vulgarity or anger -- very easily. So, she once again explains, "My music is like, walking through a dream", "I sometimes dream of music" -- then, she quickly realized what she had said (mentally assembling the ideas) -- and quickly raised her head, from looking downward. Her eyes meeting his exactly, she was almost crying out of frustration, then she sharply spoke with a heavy Scottish-brogue: Announcing -- " It's 'Dream Pop' alright ... !!! ". Robin was, and still is very protective of Elizabeth, so he instantly knew something was wrong and promptly escorted her out of the party. However, she spoke loudly enough for the entire music industry, magazine editors, and writers to clearly hear her; so, the music industry began to start using Elizabeth's term, "Dream-Pop". It was pure Fraser brilliance, as it became a fantastic definition of the Cocteaux music, a splendid "two-word" phenomenological manifesto -- in which, the term "Dream-Pop" entered into the public's collective lexicon, which many writers, like my father said: extended the definition as, "an ephemeral reverberation, cascading ethereal, moody bliss" I know, because I was there with my father. He had an extra Press Pass and uncharacteristically he asked me, if, I wanted to meet the Cocteau Twins in person. It's one of the very few time my father and I did something, rather positive together. I've often referenced Elizabeth Fraser's vocalizations to the Surrealists painter -- Frida Kahlo. Frida used herself as a enigmatic muse of; love, anguish, torment, pain, and personal grief. She said: "No one understands my paintings except me, their about my little world". Elizabeth Fraser's lyrics -- if you know them, say almost exactly the same thing. Their stunningly beautiful and isn't it time to treat Elizabeth with the same dignity, people often freely give to other artists, like Frida. Elizabeth Fraser once said: "... I remember my secrets, I write it down and them, I tell it ... it's only for me ... " I really don't know how AR Kane seemed to be crowned with the title of who, originally used the term "Dream Pop", when for decades now; everything that was explained above was well established. I'm miffed at how people get from, "Pump up the Volume" mixed with the Cocteaux "Head Over Heals" album. Yes, AR Kane was apart of the 4AD Label for only a little while, then did some experimental music and died off 5 years later. If anything, AR Kane was simply "repeating what they heard Elizabeth Fraser say", when she said "Dream Pop" in 1983, and AR Kane, supposedly used the term in 1988. Something is wrong here: Beware of the Wiki-Informed masses, who think they know, what they don't know.
I love that you give them a try, don't hear a lot spoken about them. I myself never grasped the fervor for this album like a lot of their other fans, but there are some great songs that I go back to. If you want their best ethereal work, it's Victorialand. It sounds completely of its own world, some songs sound downright middle eastern, very cool. Then Blue Bell Knoll, some songs were for Liz's yet-to-be-born baby, and sound like lullabies. She was pregnant at the time of the recording, gives it a more human feel to the album. Also, I would love to suggest Joni Mitchell's The Hissing of Summer Lawns, I think you'd like the rich instruments, and Joni's dynamic storytelling, it's one of my favorites and I'd love to hear what you think! Cheers!
Blue Bell Knoll has kind of crawled to my top spot as far as CT goes, but there's something to be said for how accessible the album is with the one two punch of Ivo and Lorelei, and then the individual moments of magic through the rest.
Waiting for the Cocteau Twin discography run...... My favorite from the Twins is 4 Calender Cafe (I know Kimg Contraion) but it’s just a super dreamy and heavenly album. The last two Twins albums are very underrated my favorites
Regarding lyrics... Liz spent years reading foreign language dictionaries without nailing specific proper pronunciations and simply jotted down her favouritely interpreted words in screeds of notebooks - She wasn't convinced that she was any good as a singer or songwriter at all(!) and in the early days she just sang 'word-salads' taken from her notebooks.
I really like the mixture of sounds that are in this. I haven't heard it in full before but it's been in my backlog for quite some time along with Heaven or Las Vegas and now I feel pretty eager to listen to it in it's entirety. Some of the comments seem to get the impression that you really didn't like this or appreciate it but I personally didn't feel like that, I thought you were just taking it in for what it was but hey it's a battle of opinions right? Quick side note, I really dig this album cover.
Your instrumental observation is spot on. I remember reading somewhere in the 80s that Liz Fraser would have to listen to the songs before playing them live because she didn't remember the lyrics she had made up in the studio. This is a pioneering album in post-punk because the voice is used as a pure instrument. You have to remember that this was when bands like Bauhaus, Sisters of Mercy, Clan of Xymox, and the early Cure were big. This was, at the time, completely left of center. The album plays best as an album and not as a collection of individual songs. Robin Guthrie went on to produce a bunch of 90s shoegaze bands, but I always thought his sound - I assume the engineering side of things was super thin and lacked dynamics - not as bad as Husker Du, but on that end of the production continuum. I am a huge fan - I have all of their albums and EPs - they are a work of art aurally as well as visually, however, I always wished they had used a live drummer - although to be fair, British post punk drummers were barely more creative than drum machines.
Hey Alex really enjoying these first reaction videos. I’m 47 yrs old and grew up listening to and adoring the albums of Cocteau Twins and The Smiths. And the wonderful thing is, I still listen to them as I’m sure you will continue to do for many years to come. Keep em coming!
This album was meant to have no track titles, but when discovering a hiccup with the publishing aspect of an album with "no titles', they then quickly reverted to track titles with old Scottish and English names.
Not sure if you've checked The Pink Opaque- collection of singles/ep tracks that get a little missed from the albums.....probably my favourite in turns of the songs included....
Aloysius is pronounced "all-oh-ish-iss" it's an old-timey name you've probably heard but never seen written. I'm also making this comment three years later so you might know by now lmao.
The final track is definitely a wall of sound song, to me this is their finest and knocks the socks off Heaven or Las Vegas. - They tried to get Brian Eno to produce this album, though he said they knew what to do and did not need his help. - As far as I am aware Robert Smith has called this not only romantic, though the most beautiful music and not only listened to in the day of his wedding, though in the period building up to. - found out yesterday eve that this was recorded in Edinburgh, where I live, makes feel that bit more special. - Liz Fraser was deliberately not using words as words at this time.
Try Bel Canto's 1989 album "Birds of Passage." Also, the 1989 self-titled album "Hex" by Steve Kilbey (of The Church) and Donnette Thayer (of Game Theory). I don't even think this album is on TH-cam in full, and they're hard to find since so many other bands and songs have "hex" in their name. "Diviner" and "Ethereal Message" are standout tracks.
Heh, I was thinking Treasure makes the most sense, as it is quite a different sound from Heaven or Las Vegas. Blue Bell Knoll, while being my personal favorite, still has a HOLV sound. Treasure is a fantastic album as well, and I think it's more accessible than HOLV, which is kind of built for Cocteau Twins fans in its subtlety.
Hi Alex, do you have any idea how is for us, old CT fans, to see the reaction of someone who never listened to them yet? It's so amusing. I am very glad you liked this great band, for me, Treasure is their best album. I loved your video!
I think this is a wonderful album, one of my faves although I don't listen to it often. I have to be in the right mood to catch it, but when I am it blows me away. I think there's one or two sub-par tracks, but I kind of substitute them with 'Pearly Dew Drops' Drops' and 'The Spangle Maker' (from an EP they released around the same time - well worth a listen as they fit in quite nicely with the mood here). I was just thinking, a good album to listen to which has similarities to this might be 'New Gold Dream' by Simple Minds (1982). It's similar in that it weaves a spell and has a very magical atmospheric feel to it, the difference being that the underlying songs are more mainstream and accessible, it doesn't meander off in different directions as much as Treasure does. Just an idea!
Alex seems to get very little music on the first pass. This can be frustrating for people who are deeply sunk in the music and hang on every note. Could do without the yawning- a bit extra
Reaction video on Cocteau Twins's "Milk & Kisses"? Would like to hear what you have to say about that album as it is generally considered their low-point and also 'go-out-with-a-whimper' record. I absolutely disagree on both points. It has very similar feel to it as Heaven or Las Vegas does and I cannot pick out a bad song no matter how critical I attempt to be. Allmusic's reviewer seems to find lot more empty humming inside the album than I do. In my world, it's the second best album released in 1996.
Even though a large portion of what I listen too is shoegaze (or at least shoegaze adjacent) Cocteau Twins has never quite clicked. I respect them, but don't often enjoy them.
I wouldn't say they are "more than just shoegaze". If anything they are less than. Not in any derogatory sense, just that they are sort of a precursor to it.
Fair enough. We used to use those terms rather interchangeably. I suppose shoegaze might have involved more fuzz and reverb, where as dream pop would be chorus and delay, but they definitely swam in the same pond.
I wonder what an uninterrupted listen would do for your perception of this album? It's definitely one that has a kind of interesting logical arc to it that's very noticable. Since this listen, I'd be curious about your thoughts if you've returned to this in a focused way?
Drum machine here is almost hip hop, so strong, full of kick, guitars edgy... I don't consider CT dream pop, this is something I started at the 90s, this silly labelling... For me CT is not even post punk, its a gente in its own...may bands copy them later, SOME aspects of their music, and then Lush, this kind of 4AD indie bands...and then Beach House and the 2000s... But CT were just creating their own way, for me is just experimenting limits with pop songs.
We've just seen the Enoma couple humiliate themselves trying to review a Cocteau Twins track. Face facts - this video is little better. Alex, a relative novice, picked the most problematic Cocteau Twins long-player. This may seem a strange comparison but Treasure is their particular Hot Rats, the so-called "classic" that's both "not nearly as good as one is lead to believe", and "a bit of an anomaly, arrangement wise" (and also in the number of "doesn't she realise what she `almost' just said?" moments - and that's before we get to the dreadful self-parody at the end) PS: Dividing Cocteau Twins career into albums is misleading - it's easy to make the case that the EP was their primary format, the one that they (unconsciously?) "composed for".
More COCTEAU TWINS Reactions:
Garlands: th-cam.com/video/zlJcpyqD3kY/w-d-xo.html
Head over Heels: th-cam.com/video/zU6RkKBgrIo/w-d-xo.html
Victorialand: th-cam.com/video/R12JPJjjeW0/w-d-xo.html
The Moon and the Melodies: th-cam.com/video/_DgSxUsXG3c/w-d-xo.html
Blue Bell Knoll: th-cam.com/video/E9HRVtedK5s/w-d-xo.html
Heaven or Las Vegas: th-cam.com/video/NDVuDgzflgo/w-d-xo.html
Four Calendar Café: th-cam.com/video/RFyzAmTOtBI/w-d-xo.html
Milk and Kisses: th-cam.com/video/rynVnz0fSQk/w-d-xo.html
it seems to me that you are listening to this album the wrong way. you're judging it by what dream pop became years later. to truly appreciate this album you must consider the time in which it was recorded. in short, keep in mind that in 1984 this album really stood out with soundscapes people hadn't experienced before. for the teenage Gen Xers at the time it was literally mind blowing and expanding. This was truly not our parent's music. Also, Treasure essentially is the conception of dream-pop. as such it's not what we today would consider pure dream-pop as it contains strong elements of post-punk which you hear on the harder edge songs like Persephone. what dream pop is now has had 30 plus years since this recording to be established and refined.
The Bearded Seeker no one at the time or since sounds like her. It blew my mind when it came out and i listen to it still. Labels don’t matter. It’s a snowflake and a diamond.
I agree 100%
All the dreampop and post rock and “ambient” stuff today all draws it’s inspiration from the trail that Robin Guthrie blazed. Cocteau Twins didn’t have the benefit of a “dreampop formula” to follow or build off of, the Twins were literally writing the formula song to song and album to album.
Not to mention that dreampop/Shoegaze musicians are spoiled today in terms of effects pedals options that are built from the ground up to create dreampop sounds at the push of a button and in some cases are even named after classic dreampop/shoegaze bands. Back in their day the average listener/player had no clue how Robin was making all those heavenly sounds which made it all the more magical. Today you can literally buy any one of a number of high end reverb/delay units and turn a few knobs and you’re instantly into Cocteau Twins/slowdive territory.
So the bearded seeker has it 100% right. You have to consider the context of when these albums were released both in terms of the infancy of the genre itself and the limitations of the technology available at the time.
Well written assessment. Treasure was my 'gateway' album as a teen to an 'alternative' way of seeing the world. I'll never forget the first track I heard - 'Persephone', it truly sounded like it comes from another world. Japan even renamed this album - 'The Woman Whom the Gods Loved'. Still sounds great to this day, and this isn't even their best album either!
Very good points! You have to see it in context; intrinsically a reaction to Punk and it's farcical simplicity, the Cocteau Twins and other bands were developing their music to create more sophisticated and imaginative music. It is very much Post-Punk and don't forget the "New Romantic" "genre" in '80's Pop Music that was a more populist attempt to create more sophisticated music.
To me, this album goes beyond Dream Pop. The stereotypical Dream Pop sounds too urban and young-related, and too focused on "aesthetic" but not much more than that. Cocteau Twins, on the other hand, is more spiritual and ethereal.
Pandora is definitely a masterpiece
This album was my introduction to Cocteau Twins and will always be my nostalgic favorite among their many great records. Victorialand is super lush and slow and ambient. Quieter than this one but really dreamy
Treasure is a treasure.
The Cocteau Twins are probably the most emotional band for my listening experience. The atmospheres are very specific and strong.
this is one of the greatest albums ever, i listen to it regularly
Robert Smith from The Cure fell in love with this album he once stated he played it while getting ready on his wedding day. Robert was in awe of how the band's sound came across so effortlessly and loved the production as well as the music.
The drums on Treasure are pure sex. When in doubt run that drum machine through a guitar amp’s distortion channel. Early engineers told Robin he couldn’t do that, but thankfully he didn’t listen and did it anyway.
"The voice is another instrument." You get it too.
The 'Voice' IS the FIRST instrument, all musical instruments try to replicate it.
Liz Fraser and Jeff Buckley co-wrote a song called, All Flowers in Time. It is gorgeous. If you haven’t heard it, I would highly recommend that you give it a listen.
The ending of Ivo is stunning. Jeff was hugely influenced by them. You can really hear it in that deep, atmospheric reverb.
Jeff Buckley wrote that song. alone
@mojopin1983 how many videos have you been creepin on just to tell people about that song?
It’s funny, how you describe Cocteau Twins and how you describe Beach House are reversed for me. While I am a Beach House fan, they can get very droney to my ears to the point where it’s hard to keep my full attention on the music (except for their songs with more defined melodies like Myth). Treasure just gets me every time, it’s so captivating. When it comes to 80s Cocteau Twins, some of their best tracks didn’t appear on a proper album - like Orange Appled, Aikea Guinea, Those Eyes That Mouth, Kookaburra, From the Flagstones, etc. I highly recommend investigating their EPs and their other albums too.
The Cocteau Twins is one of my fave alt/indie bands. Cheers from Brazil! Loved The Smiths albums reactions, too.
I love how all the songs on the album are literally just titled after exotic first names!
Seeing them live on the last 3 albums was sonically thick. Along with Robin, they had THREE additional guitarists to give the music that HEAVY wall of sound. Not to mention a real drummer and a percussionist. It all came together live…and then they broke up.
Donimo sounds like no other song ever recorded. Brilliant!
Treasure is the best record by the Cocteaus.
It’s interesting hearing your opinion on this album. Beatrix is my favourite song of all time. It spoke to my soul in a way no other song has. I can’t explain it.
It's like he has no ears. That appreciate musical sounds. And vocal perfection. And creativity. And alot of thing in general.
He has zero sensitivity, no culture and nothing interesting or intelligent to say, so I wonder what's the point of those "first reaction" videos.
@@partirparlesarmoires attention.
Persephone doesn't feel very "background" to me haha it always comes in with a punch!
Clan of Xymox first two albums! You should listen to some darkwave from 4AD
If you're looking for more of an immediate album by Cocteau Twins, check out definitely their previous one, Head Over Heels, in a way more primitive and post punk but almost on par in terms of melodies and atmospheres, definitely note it somewhere cause I think you'd get something out of that
Some of the greatest sound ever recorded.
Funny thing is, I can never really just zone out to Cocteau Twins. Albums like Garlands, Head Over Heels, and Milk & Kisses throw so much at you. As does Treasure. Plus, all their EPs (almost always with songs exclusive to one release) are very important and show the band's progression through each era.
They ride a weird line like that. The compositions can be fairly progressive and sprawling, but they sprinkle interesting moments in that can catch your attention.
I have recommended A sky of honey by Kate Bush as an ultimate dream pop song sequence that simply takes you through a 24 hours cycle from morning till the next dawn.
The counterpart to this, it's The ninth wave, a song cycle that follows a woman lost in the sea for a whole night. Arguably the most lavish production of the 80's.
Sky of honey: th-cam.com/video/SLeyuKiMosY/w-d-xo.html
I feel like 90% of the internet is about the discussion whether there were real lyrics of early days Cocteau Twins, haha.
So cool, thanks for doing this video. Suggestions for videos in the future: "No need to argue" by The Cranberries, "The Lion and the cobra" by Sinéad O'Connor or "Silences" by Adia Victoria. :)
Alex. I'd really like it if you reviewed two albums from little-known band 'Shriekback' - who provided music for the Hannibal Lecter involving movie 'Manhunter'. The albums are 'Care' and 'Oil & Gold'. Quite brilliant.
I get offended whenever I hear the Twins get compared to beach house. There is no comparison to Liz’s vocal ability.
Before "Gothic" was dumbed down to "Goth", I was into, what at the time was being called, "Gothic" music, or what probably should've been called "Post-Gothic" or "Neo-Gothic" music, seeing that what was originally called "Gothic" music was from around the 1200's AD, but I digress. I got into Cocteau Twins in the mid 80's, when the "Gothic" thing was still going strong. Cocteau Twins were, and remain my all time favorite band, with their 1st album, "Garlands", being my favorite record (by anyone). Having said that, "Persephane" is my all time favorite song (by anyone), and the cover for "Treasure", all time favorite album cover. Oddly enough I don't like Dreampop and I really don't like Shoegaze, so I've always had a problem with people saying Cocteau Twins are Dreampop, or that they were the fathers of Dreampop. IMO, genres are not started by what most people call the 1st band to do it, but by the second band, who was seriously influenced by the 1st band (It's kinda like how a pair of footprints isn't a trail to follow. It's only after the 2nd set of footprints that a direction is created). Their attempt to emulate the 1st band is never going to be exactly the same, but for some reason, I've found in most cases, the 2nd band becomes bigger, even though, IMO, their music is often times not as good. For example, Duran Duran was a hugh success, but they, by their own words, would've never existed if it weren't for Roxy Music, who, IMO, created way, way more better music. In the case of Dreampop I consider Slowdive (I only like their 1st 2 albums, and no where near as much as I like all of Cocteau Twins) to be the 1st Dreampop band, and Cocteau Twins, maybe, the grandparents of that sound (especially their releases after Blue Bell Knoll). Back in the day, people thought they must've descended from the Gods, their sound was so ethereal, and, just like with their music, there was a mystery about them, as people. In the early 90's I got to know them, a little, in the. They were very nice people, and very down to earth. Ordinary people making, IMO, the most extraordinary music ever created by....anyone.
I totally agree that The Cocteau Twins have never been a dreampop band, and I don't care about dreampop very much (and all the easy-listening connotation of that genre). In the early eighties their records were in the New Wave section of record stores (I don't remember the term "post-punk" being used back then). The only almost comparable band was Dead Can Dance, although still light years away, both bands being extremely original.
I like some Duran Duran songs but like you I think they were kind of derivative, also heavily influenced by Japan, and commercially much more successful because, as you say, they were the "second band".
My picks for this album are: Ivo and Pandora (For Cindy)
especially Pandora (For Cindy) !!!!
i love how this album feel kind of .... scary.... deep... especially toward the end of the album, it kind of feel like the feeling of feeling apart, losing something, but not trying to find a reason.... i don't know how to explain. its special!!!
i love it alot :))
Tell me what u think
the voice of god no doubt
The strange thing with this album is that is sound indeed 'drony' and kinda generic at first listen. If you listen to it a couple of more times, all the songs grow and becomes like glue in your head. Fantastic album.
Alex -- This is a long read, but it's well worth the effort. The "Treasure" album is euphoric and essentially a collection of soundscapes, where the Cocteau Twins were gauging their "sound".
Many, many people are going to tell you, that the Cocteau Twins are "not" Dream-Pop or Shoegaze and I hope to dispel those connotations -- right now, if I may. Their information comes from a heavily, flawed and mistaken "mini-documentary" series, which tries to pinpoint the exact terminology, between what is "Dream-Pop" and "Shoegaze". Most, newbie listeners, by which, I mean anyone who's been listened to them, for less than 20 years, is probably way, way off ... !!! I've been a Cocteau Twins aficionado + superfan since 1982, so I'm going out on a limb here to say, after almost 40 years of dedication -- I believe, I know this band really well. Again, it's about who was there in the 80's and who wasn't.
In 1983, there was a 4AD "Press Release Party" for the release of the Cocteau Twins new album, "Head Over Heals". Robin Guthrie, Simon Raymonde and Elizabeth Fraser were essentially forced to be there by Ivo Watts-Russell to make interviews. Already, then in 1983, Elizabeth Fraser had to deal with, the constant and unrelenting questions, regarding Elizabeth's "lyrics" -- Yes, there are lyrics, both Robin and Simon either saw or helped write them; plus, I the have the lyrics also.
However the questions always seemed to focus on "her vocalizations" and what was she saying. Consequently, Liz became upset, because she wanted to focus on the new album, not her lyrics. Elizabeth didn't want to explain herself, yet again; plus, the three of them were already extremely media-shy anyway. However, there was one magazine editor from Germany, who previously stated, "[Elizabeth Fraser] she's just 'mouth singing' ". This pompous-ass, had an obvious problem with British bands, preferring to "tout the musings of the German-Underground" music scene. He pressured Elizabeth ino an interview and pressed the issue about her lacking lyrics and asked if the Cocteaux were, in fact, apart of the "Dark-Wave", "Death Rock" or "Doom Rock" (pre-Goth terms) as apart of the relevant music scene, or should the Cocteaux be placed, somewhere outside of that world -- entirely?
Anybody, who knows -- her personally; or, knows of Elizabeth Fraser understands, she is very mild-tempered and wouldn't outwardly decent into open vulgarity or anger -- very easily. So, she once again explains, "My music is like, walking through a dream", "I sometimes dream of music" -- then, she quickly realized what she had said (mentally assembling the ideas) -- and quickly raised her head, from looking downward. Her eyes meeting his exactly, she was almost crying out of frustration, then she sharply spoke with a heavy Scottish-brogue: Announcing -- " It's 'Dream Pop' alright ... !!! ". Robin was, and still is very protective of Elizabeth, so he instantly knew something was wrong and promptly escorted her out of the party. However, she spoke loudly enough for the entire music industry, magazine editors, and writers to clearly hear her; so, the music industry began to start using Elizabeth's term, "Dream-Pop". It was pure Fraser brilliance, as it became a fantastic definition of the Cocteaux music, a splendid "two-word" phenomenological manifesto -- in which, the term "Dream-Pop" entered into the public's collective lexicon, which many writers, like my father said: extended the definition as, "an ephemeral reverberation, cascading ethereal, moody bliss"
I know, because I was there with my father. He had an extra Press Pass and uncharacteristically he asked me, if, I wanted to meet the Cocteau Twins in person. It's one of the very few time my father and I did something, rather positive together. I've often referenced Elizabeth Fraser's vocalizations to the Surrealists painter -- Frida Kahlo. Frida used herself as a enigmatic muse of; love, anguish, torment, pain, and personal grief. She said:
"No one understands my paintings except me, their about my little world".
Elizabeth Fraser's lyrics -- if you know them, say almost exactly the same thing. Their stunningly beautiful and isn't it time to treat Elizabeth with the same dignity, people often freely give to other artists, like Frida. Elizabeth Fraser once said:
"... I remember my secrets, I write it down and them, I tell it ... it's only for me ... "
I really don't know how AR Kane seemed to be crowned with the title of who, originally used the term "Dream Pop", when for decades now; everything that was explained above was well established. I'm miffed at how people get from, "Pump up the Volume" mixed with the Cocteaux "Head Over Heals" album. Yes, AR Kane was apart of the 4AD Label for only a little while, then did some experimental music and died off 5 years later. If anything, AR Kane was simply "repeating what they heard Elizabeth Fraser say", when she said "Dream Pop" in 1983, and AR Kane, supposedly used the term in 1988. Something is wrong here: Beware of the Wiki-Informed masses, who think they know, what they don't know.
Thank you for such a heartfelt and knowledgeable comment! ♡
@@nessaseetah1805 Thank you Vanessa. I just have difficulty with people, who want to literally rewrite history.
@@spinglasshydra Don't we see a rampant (rabid) rise of THAT these days? :/ Thanks for passing on witness and wisdom.
I love that you give them a try, don't hear a lot spoken about them. I myself never grasped the fervor for this album like a lot of their other fans, but there are some great songs that I go back to.
If you want their best ethereal work, it's Victorialand. It sounds completely of its own world, some songs sound downright middle eastern, very cool. Then Blue Bell Knoll, some songs were for Liz's yet-to-be-born baby, and sound like lullabies. She was pregnant at the time of the recording, gives it a more human feel to the album.
Also, I would love to suggest Joni Mitchell's The Hissing of Summer Lawns, I think you'd like the rich instruments, and Joni's dynamic storytelling, it's one of my favorites and I'd love to hear what you think! Cheers!
Blue Bell Knoll has kind of crawled to my top spot as far as CT goes, but there's something to be said for how accessible the album is with the one two punch of Ivo and Lorelei, and then the individual moments of magic through the rest.
Waiting for the Cocteau Twin discography run...... My favorite from the Twins is 4 Calender Cafe (I know Kimg Contraion) but it’s just a super dreamy and heavenly album. The last two Twins albums are very underrated my favorites
that's my favourite one too! great
Regarding lyrics... Liz spent years reading foreign language dictionaries without nailing specific proper pronunciations and simply jotted down her favouritely interpreted words in screeds of notebooks - She wasn't convinced that she was any good as a singer or songwriter at all(!) and in the early days she just sang 'word-salads' taken from her notebooks.
I really like the mixture of sounds that are in this. I haven't heard it in full before but it's been in my backlog for quite some time along with Heaven or Las Vegas and now I feel pretty eager to listen to it in it's entirety. Some of the comments seem to get the impression that you really didn't like this or appreciate it but I personally didn't feel like that, I thought you were just taking it in for what it was but hey it's a battle of opinions right?
Quick side note, I really dig this album cover.
Your instrumental observation is spot on. I remember reading somewhere in the 80s that Liz Fraser would have to listen to the songs before playing them live because she didn't remember the lyrics she had made up in the studio. This is a pioneering album in post-punk because the voice is used as a pure instrument. You have to remember that this was when bands like Bauhaus, Sisters of Mercy, Clan of Xymox, and the early Cure were big. This was, at the time, completely left of center. The album plays best as an album and not as a collection of individual songs. Robin Guthrie went on to produce a bunch of 90s shoegaze bands, but I always thought his sound - I assume the engineering side of things was super thin and lacked dynamics - not as bad as Husker Du, but on that end of the production continuum. I am a huge fan - I have all of their albums and EPs - they are a work of art aurally as well as visually, however, I always wished they had used a live drummer - although to be fair, British post punk drummers were barely more creative than drum machines.
I had this on cassette and it had the Akiea-Guinni EP as bonus tracks. That is what it will always sound like to me.
Hey Alex really enjoying these first reaction videos. I’m 47 yrs old and grew up listening to and adoring the albums of Cocteau Twins and The Smiths. And the wonderful thing is, I still listen to them as I’m sure you will continue to do for many years to come. Keep em coming!
A very interesting album!Thank you for your review,can't wait for more.
This album was meant to have no track titles, but when discovering a hiccup with the publishing aspect of an album with "no titles', they then quickly reverted to track titles with old Scottish and English names.
To use words like wow, and then conclude by saying it is quite good puzzles me.
you should react to This Mortal Coil- It'll End In Tears next!!
Not sure if you've checked The Pink Opaque- collection of singles/ep tracks that get a little missed from the albums.....probably my favourite in turns of the songs included....
Aloysius is pronounced "all-oh-ish-iss" it's an old-timey name you've probably heard but never seen written. I'm also making this comment three years later so you might know by now lmao.
The lyrics for Donimo are the Scottish variation of eeny meeny miney moe.
The final track is definitely a wall of sound song, to me this is their finest and knocks the socks off Heaven or Las Vegas. - They tried to get Brian Eno to produce this album, though he said they knew what to do and did not need his help. - As far as I am aware Robert Smith has called this not only romantic, though the most beautiful music and not only listened to in the day of his wedding, though in the period building up to. - found out yesterday eve that this was recorded in Edinburgh, where I live, makes feel that bit more special. - Liz Fraser was deliberately not using words as words at this time.
Try Bel Canto's 1989 album "Birds of Passage." Also, the 1989 self-titled album "Hex" by Steve Kilbey (of The Church) and Donnette Thayer (of Game Theory). I don't even think this album is on TH-cam in full, and they're hard to find since so many other bands and songs have "hex" in their name. "Diviner" and "Ethereal Message" are standout tracks.
I was never a fan of this early on.. but NOW hearing it more.. it is a slow 🐌 burner. It has grown more on me.
Good reaction video Alex.
C
Treasure is up there with Heaven or Las Vegas and Victorialand for me. The top 3 CT albums, in my opinion.
@@AlexHaitz Victorialand is sublime
Grand Prix? Interesting! I would recommend "New Wave" by the Auteurs
Heh, I was thinking Treasure makes the most sense, as it is quite a different sound from Heaven or Las Vegas. Blue Bell Knoll, while being my personal favorite, still has a HOLV sound. Treasure is a fantastic album as well, and I think it's more accessible than HOLV, which is kind of built for Cocteau Twins fans in its subtlety.
Aloysius reminds me of the beginning of The Passions- I'm in Love with a German Film Star.
Wait till you listen to GARLANDS.
yeah now thats an october listen for sure
Garlands is definitely my favorite from Cocteau Twins.
Too scary
Garlands my favourite also- beautiful, very strong sound, has amazing depth and substance. Later Cocteau sound is very much a trailing off IMHO
Obviously Treasure is fantastic- but I would place it closer in spirit to Garlands, shares same depth and richness than far later albums
Hi Alex, do you have any idea how is for us, old CT fans, to see the reaction of someone who never listened to them yet? It's so amusing. I am very glad you liked this great band, for me, Treasure is their best album. I loved your video!
Thanks! I’m glad you liked it. I love CT and am eager to get to other albums of theirs down the road.
@@AlexHaitz I collect CT since 1985, I love her voice, I use to say Liz Fraser's voice is God's voice.
All About Eve, self titled album deserving of a listen for you sometime.
Wow! Thank you for reminding the world of an underrepresented band! ♡
Go back to the beginning, 'Garlands' its worth it
I think this is a wonderful album, one of my faves although I don't listen to it often. I have to be in the right mood to catch it, but when I am it blows me away. I think there's one or two sub-par tracks, but I kind of substitute them with 'Pearly Dew Drops' Drops' and 'The Spangle Maker' (from an EP they released around the same time - well worth a listen as they fit in quite nicely with the mood here).
I was just thinking, a good album to listen to which has similarities to this might be 'New Gold Dream' by Simple Minds (1982). It's similar in that it weaves a spell and has a very magical atmospheric feel to it, the difference being that the underlying songs are more mainstream and accessible, it doesn't meander off in different directions as much as Treasure does. Just an idea!
Alex seems to get very little music on the first pass. This can be frustrating for people who are deeply sunk in the music and hang on every note. Could do without the yawning- a bit extra
If Treasure is October, Victorialand is February.
Dark dream pop....please check out Clan of Xymox. ESP the first couple of albums. They’ll leave you happily haunted!
Reaction video on Cocteau Twins's "Milk & Kisses"?
Would like to hear what you have to say about that album as it is generally considered their low-point and also 'go-out-with-a-whimper' record. I absolutely disagree on both points. It has very similar feel to it as Heaven or Las Vegas does and I cannot pick out a bad song no matter how critical I attempt to be. Allmusic's reviewer seems to find lot more empty humming inside the album than I do. In my world, it's the second best album released in 1996.
Listen to DEAD CAN DANCE, TOWARD THE WITHIN. It’s a live album
this album got me through some life....nuff said
One of my favorite CT albums. VICTORIALAND and THE PINK OPAQUE as well
Even though a large portion of what I listen too is shoegaze (or at least shoegaze adjacent) Cocteau Twins has never quite clicked. I respect them, but don't often enjoy them.
i feel like theyre more than just shoegaze like they have a rlly different sound and its hard to get into
I wouldn't say they are "more than just shoegaze". If anything they are less than. Not in any derogatory sense, just that they are sort of a precursor to it.
Jeff Dean if anything, i would call them dreampop not shoegaze
Fair enough. We used to use those terms rather interchangeably. I suppose shoegaze might have involved more fuzz and reverb, where as dream pop would be chorus and delay, but they definitely swam in the same pond.
dread true ok
This really is a brutal test for any reactor, revealing... LOL Beatrix- what can you say about such subtlety
This is arguably my favorite CT album now. A bit abrasive in ways on first listen, but it stays with you.
@@AlexHaitz Its Garlands or Treasure for me. Garlands edges it - just too richly dark and raw. Think they really lost something when Will Heggie left
Did you do a “follow up” to this Alex?
Blue bell knots is insane
Ambient 4 is legendary. So is the Cocteau Twins.
I wonder what an uninterrupted listen would do for your perception of this album? It's definitely one that has a kind of interesting logical arc to it that's very noticable. Since this listen, I'd be curious about your thoughts if you've returned to this in a focused way?
I haven’t done a front to back listen since this, but all of the songs have grown on me and clicked into place. I need to give it another full listen!
one of their best albums, f**k what robin Guthrie says.
Blue bell knoll!!!!
Much better then HoLV video. I also love brach house. You might heard about “Still Corners” also a great band, creatures of an hour LP ❤️
Cicely is one of the best song of all!!
This.album.
Let’s just agree - The Cocteau Twins are just not your cup of tea!
@@paulwright9749 This, Heaven or Las Vegas, and Victorialand are in my Top 100 Albums so I’m not sure what you’re getting from this.
Persephone sounds annoying at first listen....then you'll get to love it.😉
Drum machine here is almost hip hop, so strong, full of kick, guitars edgy... I don't consider CT dream pop, this is something I started at the 90s, this silly labelling... For me CT is not even post punk, its a gente in its own...may bands copy them later, SOME aspects of their music, and then Lush, this kind of 4AD indie bands...and then Beach House and the 2000s... But CT were just creating their own way, for me is just experimenting limits with pop songs.
She doesn’t sing in lyrics
Lyrics sing in her.
Remain In Light has only 8 tracks ;) just saying.
LETTING THE DAYS GO BY
We've just seen the Enoma couple humiliate themselves trying to review a Cocteau Twins track. Face facts - this video is little better.
Alex, a relative novice, picked the most problematic Cocteau Twins long-player. This may seem a strange comparison but Treasure is their particular Hot Rats, the so-called "classic" that's both "not nearly as good as one is lead to believe", and "a bit of an anomaly, arrangement wise" (and also in the number of "doesn't she realise what she `almost' just said?" moments - and that's before we get to the dreadful self-parody at the end)
PS: Dividing Cocteau Twins career into albums is misleading - it's easy to make the case that the EP was their primary format, the one that they (unconsciously?) "composed for".
I can't listen to Treasure. The tinny trebly sound hurts my ears.
I also can't listen to Beach House because they bore me senseless.