The snobbery surrounding adult hobbies is ridiculous. I run into the same attitudes in audio equipment, guns, home brewing, cars, retro video games, music, whiskey, home theater, pinball... That primitive tribal mentality is alive in well in modern men. Just do what you like and ignore the haters.
I totally get the snobbery around audio equipment. Its just something where everyone has their own very specific taste. I actually hated every set of speakers i heard in stores near me so i ended up saying fuck that and built my own exactly how i wanted them
I've run into this with a friend who is into cigars; buy vintage or quality cigars from the right places, store them in the right humidor, cut them at the right length, with the right cutter, don't remove the label, use the right lighter, and don't inhale, just taste. It's as if not following firm rules (i.e dogma) means you are not taking the hobby seriously, and is not worth the effort. As someone who would rather improvise and find the best process that works for me, it's frustrating to say the least.
Yeah, I'm into watches and dealing with snobs who worship Swiss made watches is just ridiculous. The most bullshit they ever said is that a Rolex need a whole year to be made. Also their hatred for Japanese made watches is reaching crusader level. They also can't deal with the fact Grand Seiko just came out with the smoothest second arm movement. It's funny to see them completely lose their mind when China able to produce Tourbillon technology.
I think a lot of vinyllovers people just don‘t realize that not everybody who likes vinyls is an audiophile.Some people just want to listen to records for fun and the vibe and not pay an arm and a leg.
Literally have the cheapest one I could find , needed one because I’m a collector , and vinyls are part of my collection , simply needed one to be able to play them if I want
The giant artwork and the aesthetic of records in a shelf is a huge appeal. Vinyl is also an easier format to finish a whole record. You'd think streaming but I feel committed with vinyl. Streaming I can just switch a song from my phone.
I agree these audiophile guys have their life balance nob way off ,(in my opinion ). Also some of these music lovers are way out there to. ( You play the music don't let the music play you). Take your wife or girlfriend Dancing ( ballroom) , try music with movement . And stop smoking dope !
My turntable must skip really bad every time I play the Top Gun soundtrack, especially on the Kenny Loggins song. But the Take My Breath Away song is just as bad...
Ok there's actually a little difference, but I'm starting to think that these audiophiles are just trying to justify they spent 600 dollars just to listen to stereo sound.
It really is diminishing returns in quality the more you pay. Guitars are the same. The difference between a $2500 Gibson LP and an $6000 Gibson LP is minimal. But, the difference between a $400 Epiphone Lp(Gibson) and a $2500 Gibson LP is substantial in audio quality. But, it really is about what motivates the person using it. Maybe, that minimal tone is enough to push them to everyday use, so for them the extra money pays for itself over time in use. For someone who doesn't get that, then it is a waste of money. It really is just a personal perspective thing.
I think audiophiles would consider $600 a budget, entry level turntable. Maybe $20K or above. I said a pair of speaker cables on ebay here in UK for £38,000 today!!! At first I thought it was for speakers but no it was for cables. Absolutely insane.
Good on you, defending these turntables and putting unfair criticism to rest about their specs. These are fine record players and will give the the people who own them many hours of enjoyable music listening. I've been an audiophile for many years and I say if you enjoy music then that's the only thing that really matters, no matter what the music is you enjoy or what you enjoy it on. I hate it when people knock on other people's audio equipment. There were times when I could only afford an AM radio that I bought in a thrift store but it made it so I could listen to music. Bottom line, if you are enjoying what you have for listening to music then be happy with it and don't let anyone tell you different. There's a real difference between being an audiophile and being a prigg. If you tell people that their equipment is crap then you're the latter. I'll set down with anyone to listen to music no matter what the gear is they are playing it on.
"I can't believe nobody actually bothered to test this" - you mean, you expect the _explicitly anti-evidence audio-hipster community_ to actually *test* something?? =D
i agree and its a total pain in the ass when i get right down to it. i prefer flac as much as possible when listening from my htpc but at the same time for mobile i only have 48 gigs to work with so i either gotta swap out the music (which is no biggie) constantly because flac is big or i settle for 320kbps mp3. the issue is 2 fold. 1 that means i have multiple copy's on my desktop for home/Mobil for a good chunk of my collection, and 2 my mobile is also the primary music source for my car stereo because its quicker n easier then mp3 cd's/ browsing a usb stick even though its a touchscreen deck. the problem is i got a bad ass system in the car so of course i want to hear the best it can offer. ya being an audiophile is a bit of a chore but totally worth it in my book.
zeroa69 only 48 gigs? When vinyl was invented that much memory on any device would have been thought impossible. 48 gigabytes is enough to hold thousands of song's
Sounds like the people who talk these down are trying to justify buying an overly expensive unit by attacking something that just gets the job done without the bells, whistles or branding.
Probably because higher end tables wouldn't. I can hit my Numarks pretty hard before the record would skip. Great for parties & drunk idiots who get too close to your stuff! (And my tables were only like $199 each...20 yrs ago! So pretty affordable.)
Even my rp7000 with the dj cart on it will skip if you bump the turntables. Quite frankly, unless its a vestax with a dynamically balanced arm, it would concern me if it didn't skip when it got bumped. Because that could mean it tracks heavy as all hell. There's a difference between bass making the needle skip, from tracking or speakers, and actually bumping the fucking things.
Totally right. I remember one time an advert for a new hot Coupé came on and everyone was wowed and saying what am amazing car it was and when it was revealed it was a Peugeot, not a Porsche as they thought everybody was like "what a f*cking ugly car!"
I've had a AT-LP60 for a few years now and for my ears it's fine plus it always works. I could go buy a better turntable but I feel that money is better spent on buying more records instead.
Audio Technica is a great brand--probably one of the best for entry-level audiophiles. I don't know if the one in this video is one of those models with the lift mechanism that lets you pause the vinyl--I've had my eye on one of those for a little while (preferably belt drive, which I know the AT model in this video is), because I often get interrupted and called away while listening, and when I tried moving the needle back before I think I may have ruined one of my most treasured albums.
The LP60 is probably the cheapest record player you would want to get. For the price it’s a great turntable. If you only casually listen to records every now and then, and you don’t want a super premium turntable, then this is the best record player you can get. For about $100, it is amazing. And it won’t damage your records.
I know I'm extremely late, but you might see it, I guess. So I would just like to ask: What do you feel like the most apparent shortcomings of that turntable are? How exactly does it sound "fine"? (I currently don't plan on buying a turntable, but I just got my first decent pair of headphones, so I'm getting more into quality audio. And as someone who has never heard music other than digital, analog peaked my interest a little bit. Perhaps one day!)
This is why I am always torn about the audiophile community. On one end they can bring some great info to the table in regards to what equipment sounds good. But on the other they can be really annoying when they don't always understand why someone wouldn't want to spend a few grand on a record player and a few more on speakers and amps. Not all are like that but some get on my nerves, especially when they talk about hearing frequencies far above what the human ear could ever hear.
A friend of mine felt that way until I sang the part in the looking glass song brandy, where she could feel the ocean fall and rise as he told his sailor's story, he said he could never figure out what they were saying, it's amazing what you miss without discretion
Yeah, saw someone on reddit asking about getting a LP60X and some of the comments were just going "no, go buy this $500 turntable with a $400 receiver and $600 speakers". Like wow.
Yeah, reddit vinyl community is pretty much complete cancer. Thanks for the correct review, I'll buy myself the Sony player, since it's widely available in my country.
I have that Pioneer PL-990. never had a problem with it, i'm not an audiophile and can't stand that crowd, nothing is ever good enough for them, best to stay away from that crowd.
Not sure about that i saw a reddit post where they said a cheap ass turntable with a good needle can beat out any flagship turntable with a bad needle.
I’ve owned both. The Crosley I had was the very cheap suitcase model which was horrible. The speed fluctuated and the sound was muddled and narrow. The at-lp60 has been great though, sounds incredible and very clear
Many Crossley models are build by the same Chinese company that builds the LP60 and LP120. They build some nice models in the $200-$300 range. It's the suitcase model specifically that has a bad reputation, but "audiophiles" are screaming their heads off over them as if Crossley is trying to get them to replace their $20,000 setups with a $50 all-in-one. Some people just can't afford their standards and sometimes a dad just buys their kid a cheap player to play that pile of records that has been gathering dust in the attic for over 20 years. It really isn't always about the sound quality, sometimes it is just about playing records.
@@muskiet8687 exactly. I always hate to see enthusiasts try to shove their superiority onto people who are just trying to enjoy something new. It seems counter productive since they are most likely turning people away from a hobby they both enjoy. Gatekeeping at its finest. I know it all too well since I just got into vinyls and I had a victrola Eastwood 3 and was shunned for it. I bought primarily rap albums and was shunned for it. It definitely hurt a lot of my enthusiasm towards my new hobby. I felt embarrassed about it since I didn’t want to seem to be a novice. I have now given the Eastwood 3 to my mother so she can play her old vinyls, and I bought an AT LP60x. I’m still buying the rap albums tho, that won’t change.
@@muskiet8687 is the at lp60x the same as lp60? I am new to the vinyl scene I’ve had my lp60x for about 2 years and played every record I own on it so far I have no problems except on one record that I got that had a scratch on it
@@dannagarcia2556 Any turntable you enjoy is a good turntable. Don't worry about specifics and keep listening to the music. Don't make it about the equipment.
Its the main thing I love about him and Vinyl TV the only 2 guys I trust with this subject matter tho micheal framer isn't bad when he's not being a dick still tho
I think so, too, wa27! VWestlife tells like it is; although I search for a middle ground, have mostly moderate hi fi equipment, I believe that you do not need to pay an enormous amount of money for a hi fi component. There is a point of diminishing returns. There are prices of turntables that are in the stratosphere that can turn your hair white. I don't believe in paying very multi-hundred dollars, to the thousands for a record player.If I get another turntable I have more than plenty of money, I would I'd get another car.
Thank you! I initially wanted the AT LP60 for a gift for my elderly Dad who hasn't had a turntable in 50 years but I remember fondly when he used to play records when I was a child. He still has the records. I did research and thought it wasn't a good choice but now you have explained my concerns I'm getting it for Christmas! Thank you, I subscribed 😊
The problem with your channel is you prove things with logic, reason, proof and evidence.. not hearsay and opinion. No one will believe your outrageous claims my friend! =P
Yo personally take it from a man who’s owned a few different tables before I converted to the at lp 120. That audio technica lp 60 is not just popular but very dependable. It worked perfectly until the day I sold it to a friend. He has no complaints
I can't say I've ever had any complaints about my Audio Technica AT-LP60. Sure it's cheap and lacks the alluring aesthetics of a Technics SL-1200 or any of its clones, but its modest price tag allow financial resources to be redirected to such things as acquiring more vinyl records. Audiophiles may forever disagree on and condemn the use of a budget oriented turntable for the long-term enjoyment of vinyl, but I'm content breaking the "rules." If somebody takes such great offense to your using a turntable that will "chew up and destroy" a record and its grooves, maybe they ought to incur the expense of buying an audiophile-approved model for you!
If you ask an audiophile whats best for sound and you dont get it and assume theyre just shitting on your gear, you've missed the point. Yes you can play vinyl on your cheap turntable and you may enjoy the result. You also might enjoy mp3. With the right album, the right turntable/cartridge/stylus combination, amp and speakers you can extract HD quality audio from the vinyl. (A lot of people tell me they cant tell the difference between standard definition and 1080P HD on tvs. Most people will know theres a big difference. Same with audio if you have good hearing) You can also play it on cheap gear and not get the same quality sound but if you dont know any better, you may believe you get a great sound. If the last sentance describes yourself then stick to cd or mp3 as vinyl is very fragile and expensive compared to cd and it will cost a lot to acquire the right gear to play it in the quality it was recorded with..
Many,many people do not have a lot of money to sink into the hobby. If this can provide enjoyment to them, the let us welcome them into the wonderful world of records.
Agreed. Also remember that back then vinyl is very commonly used so of course there's many good affordable vinyl players. Seems like many vinyl snobs forget about that and think that vinyl community is an elite group.
You know, I didn't know that some turntables had the spring mechanism in the tonearm before I watched this video. I always used to think "no counterweight, so it's bad". Now, I know that the tracking force is determined by other mechanisms apart from a counterweight, something I haven't heard from these "audiophiles". Thanks for this video.
The way that turntable handles a warped record is insane. As a person who mostly gets my records super cheap from goodwill or rummage sales, making bad records sound good is super important to me.
I Bought the Audio Technia LP60, have it a Year, plays perfect, No Issues, Same Stylus, with cost me 150.00Euro, and a set of Speakers for the same price, Total 300.00 Euro.... No Complaints, great Turntable, the LP60.
Well, who is getting a record player is not really an audiophile. Just a dumb person who still believe nothing would sound better. Just a lack of knowledge, intollerance and ignorance :)
@dom , I'm no audiophile and I do recognize there is EASIER ways to adquire music but I like the feeling of vinyl, the fact that I can see my collection and that I can play it on a turntable. Is not a 100% logical hobby or decision. Hope this comment helps.
I had to go to a Facebook group to get help with a cassette deck because nobody would cover something that wasn't a nakamichi (probably spelt it wrong)
For a budget vinyl enthusiast or a beginner, these turntables are a great value, and SOOOO much better than the cheaper Crosley style turntables. Of course audiophiles are going to say they are junk. There is a sweet spot with price to performance. Something like a Crosley isnt very good at a 59.99 price point, but going up another 40-60 dollars you get 10 times the performance for way less than 10 times the cost. I would say that turntables 300 dollars and above, that price to performance ratio drops way down, that you can spend thousands more to only get a negligible improvement.
You have obviously not experienced a turntable with a high end tonearm or cartridge. The AT-LP60 is OK for people starting out. We all have to start somewhere. More money gets you more quality, and better audio. No...It's NOT a negligible improvement. It's HUGE.
@@alm3333 Actually I HAVE. The difference IS negligible at best, even with top tier speakers and equipment. The ceiling for audio quality as far as Vinyl goes isn't that high. On the other hand it is fun to play around with equipment. Not sure it's worth thousands and thousands of dollars to do that but...to each his own.
I agree with the diminishing returns after a couple hundred dollars, at least as far as sound quality goes. I think there are lots of things you can get when you spend more money, but I do believe for about $300 it's possible to get something that sounds really very good and reaches most of the way to the best there is. Sure a $6,000 turntable will sound better, if it's hooked to $24,000 worth of gear. But will it sound 20x better? Of course not. I have had a $500 turntable, a $1,000 turntable and now I use a $2,000 turntable. They all sound about the same when played through an AV receiver. I do think they sound a bit better than an entry level UTurn, but only when they're hooked up to much more expensive components. Turntables with speakers built in are generally pretty bad value, but there are great models to be had in the $100 to $300 price range.
Owners need to make sure their turntable is *level* if the anti-skating is to work properly so the record doesn't skip. I would have mentioned that. Fair reviews overall!
Thank you for de-bunking so many myths. The world of Audio is full of snobbery and false claims, often commercially driven. This is the best video I can remember watching for a long time.
Top video, thanks to your review I'm getting an Audio-Technica AT-LP60 this Christmas, and you've gained a subscriber. Keep on shooting down the insecure audiophiles, and spreading actual researched information
I am new to Viynl and our family room was a vintage turntable while I’m asking for a Victrola for Christmas for my bedroom and If I enjoy it so much I will probably upgrade to an audio technica or another vintage
The Crosley stuff, I get why people hate it. But, I wouldn't call these turntables horrible. In fact, I would RECOMMEND turntables in these price range for people who want to get into vinyl. And THIS is why I no longer consider myself an "audiophile".
Same, but for someone like my aunt who is in her late 70's and has a large record collection from the 50's - 80's my late uncle left her. and needs for things to work, and be simple as they can be, since she is not very technically minded, then the $99 Crosley with tape, CD, and AM/FM radio with a retro wood grain look did just the trick, and has played all her records just fine for her needs.
I got my GF a Crosley to get her interested in vinyl. It works.. Slowly building up the HIFI set to something where I can get a phono pre-amp and some technics table.. But for the time being, that Crosley is doing its job just fine. The only problem I found is that the adapter lacked the amps to power the motor for heavy vinyl.. With another adapter, this problem was easily remedied.
Crosley has a higher end TT I believe it's Pro-Ject they have making them, so they now have an option that's substantially better than the crappy LP60.
As a 17 year old that wanted to get into vinyl but was broke as hell, the AT-LP90 has done a great job for me. I got it about 8 months ago and the only complaint I have is that the speed went out of whack about 2 months ago, but this was fixed relatively easily and it has retained the correct speed. Overall it sounds great and does the job on a budget, not sure why people are getting all snobbish over it.
The irony. When I was 17 or perhaps a year or two younger, I was so relieved to get away from vinyl and cassette. Yes, records are tactile and the album art could be incredible. But there is simply no getting past the fact that CD's hold more, better music and have all of the abilities that only the highest end turntables offered (track skip, repeat, etc). I sometimes pine for the record ritual, until I think about it long enough. I currently have a 64gb micro thumb drive in my receiver with somewhere around 50-75 cd's of lossless wav (mostly classical). I can listen to hours of music from my seat, without worrying about someone jostling the player, cleaning the records, worrying about someone mistreating them, an control everything with a remote.
I had one of these. They are great for the price. If you're in the market for plug and play, and new to records, I concur with the entire video. Vintage isn't for everyone. This is like the Toyota Corolla of record players.
I don't know, my turntable was reliable if nothing else... I changed the stylus at least five times before I retired it. Reminded me lots of taking a trip in a rental Corolla.. bland, unexciting, "got the job done", etc. Yugo has too much character for the comparison to work, and I never owned one or had the pleasure of riding in one, but I understand they are famously bad!
Yes, exactly. You remove it from the box, plug it in, discard the shipping materials, and start playing records... next attention comes in 1000 hours when you change the stylus. At that point you just unclip the old one and clip in a new one. Nothing to adjust, no screws, no tiny wires, nothing to replace. And it even has a "play" button and a "stop" button so no chance of slipping and scratching a prized record with big thumbs. And it has auto-return so no chance of leaving the stylus going around in circles in the :dead wax" for hours if you fall asleep or get distracted. They're pretty easy on records too, and you won't hear that they don't sound as good as a better player unless you are connecting them to speakers and amplifiers worth many times the cost of these modest players - which would then be a totally unbalanced system anyway. Is this competition for Clearaudio? NO, it isn't, this is an object of pure function and modest performance, like a Corolla - hence my initial comparison.
James Reeno There's maxhifi 123 who told his own experience and then there's you, a snob who can only post generic condescending comment. I prefer to listen to maxhifi 123's opinion who actually gave his personal experience than you. You remind me of watch snob in my community who keep saying watches under 1000 dollars only belong to garbage can.
Great video. You blew me away with all of the evidence shown. I recently got an ATLP60, and after going online, I found that it was shunned by a lot of people for a lot of the reasons you stated. I do plan on upgrading one day, but for now I'm content.
I have no interest or intention to buy a record player but I watched the whole video or to me a great description of the record players. You did a very good job on explaining what a record player does and what to look for. I have knowledge on something I do not own because of you. Great job bro
That record is just so mutilated.. Yet it does give the perfect example on the turntable staying still and actually not skipping as it was claimed to do.
@@thatretrocattt : Actually, it was a different Daft Punk LP that causes skipping... VWestlife also covered this in his much newer 'AT-LP60 Vs. AT-LP60X' review video, where he shows that the new LP60X doesn't skip on that LP - or with several other records that have caused problems with the original LP60 and it's other brand derivatives.
Bought two of these in 2005 they were $99 a piece and are great starter equiptment. I kept them long after I upgraded and gave them to people starting out, a good trick on these is to unhook the belt if you dont use the table frequently. What people tend to forget is that a very high percentage of used records were played on very low quality and/or un-maintained equiptment. One of these is not going to destroy a record. It may sound sonically different due to the wow and flutter, microphonics of the hollow body, or even the cartridge limitations but that stuff is not usually severe enough to ruin the average listeners experience anyways.
I've listened to the LP60 I was pretty shocked at how good it was for 100 bucks or so. I would generally recommend someone get a used direct drive instead of one of these new but if you want to keep it simple and not have to deal with tuning everything on a DD table there's nothing wrong with one of these.
"You'll NEVER believe how much better this 2000$ setup is than your onboard audio and Superlux headphones." Not much apparently. Then again, I don't have silver cables.
Audiophiles will tell you its bad, because in reality neither of these two turntables are all that great. Measurably and audibly, so. Do they do what they are intended to do? Yes! They enable those without a $1000+ budget to experience and enjoy the sound you get from playing vinyl records. But, despite all their low-budget virtues, they barely scratch the surface (pun intended) of what you can get performance wise from a player. Also, due to design decisions, you can't really upgrade one beyond changing the stylus to one that compromises stylus and record longevity for additional detail. Unfortunately, high quality gear takes lots of time for R&D, testing, tooling up for manufacturing, and the more limited market space they deal with. All of these factors add to costs to the end users. I have yet to have an individual that I have counseled through the purchase of any piece of gear, experience buyers remorse, nor would I consider any of them stupid. Actually, quite the contrary.
Might as well spend $60, and get a pair of Philips SHP9500 open backs, and if your onboard sound is not great then an ASUS Xonar sound card like the DG(if you have a free PCI slot) can be had for about $30 on Newegg($35 for the DGX PCIE variant with the same chipset), and I've used mine across 3 PC builds with no issues after installing the unified drivers, and keeping them up to date. I'm just saying you don't have to spend a lot more to get good quality that will last if you do your research.
I bought my daughter an Audio Technica turntable from Amazon for £99 so she could take some vinyl to university. Before she left home I hooked it up to my hi fi system which has a Thorens turntable worth £800. I swear I could not tell the difference in sound. If ever I need to replace my Thorens deck I’ll get one for myself. Absolute bargain, and my daughter loves it.
Great video. I set up ultra high end turntables for a living, and it's refreshing to see a less hysterical and less cynical review of these. When my niece asked for a record player for her 16th birthday, I got her an AT-LP60. She loves it, and has now taken if with her to college.
@Weegee and His Butler He said "cheap" Logitech speakers. Had he said 'all Logitech speakers', of course, would have been a dumb-as-fuck statement, given that some can sound absolutely killer.
That was great. I was about to ditch my Optimus Lab 1100 and spend $400 on a new turntable hoping for something better but I've never been unhappy with it. I just felt bad for having such a cheap turntable when everyone else has a cool one haha. In only use turntables to play music (mainly 80s 12" singles) not available anywhere else. I've changed my mind now.
just yesterday I was looking for a turntable as a gift for my brother. now youtube is crowded with related video recommendations. at first I was annoyed. but now I am very glad I opened this video in particular. awesome explanation.
When you have cheap turntables from brands like Audio Technica, Pioneer, Sony, Dual, and Marantz, they can't be that bad, even if they're cheap. Brands like Boytone, Polariod, Crosley, and Victrola on the other hand...
ClayPF Crosley actually put out lots of different turntables like the project debut carbon, technics sl 1200, and even the project elemental. It’s good for what it does, give people the opportunity to find a place to start for vinyl. It’s just the cruiser-type stuff you need to keep away from.
Actually, Dual made some excellent turntables in the early '90's. I bought a Dual CS 450 belt drive made in Germany and still have it set up. Great sound.
offbrand totally agree. In my opinion you can't go wrong with Audio-technica products. They are one of those companies that do not fuck with "cheap" stuff. I would recommend it to anyone who is looking to buy a good affordable turntable. I personally have the LP60 usb version and that thing does wonders for me. Ripped a few of my LP's and they sound absolutely great once burned on CD's
@Dark the loudness wars grew like a cancer on CDs and digital, that's why I prefer vinyl over the two now. If I can find versions of my favorite albums that doesn't have that problem on CD, I will buy it. If you want a example of what I'm talking about, look at stadium arcadium cd vs vinyl comparison. It's noticeable that the vinyl sounds better. Sadly, digital HD albums also have this issue.
Wow , this really made me feel better about myself . I have a old Sony record player from the early 2000's . I was always told I was ruining my records by playing them on my Sony . I'm low on funds atm and I'm in the process of moving . Once I'm setup I can enjoy my records in peace :)
I can't tell you how thankful I am for stumbling across your channel and these very helpful videos! I got one of those Victrola players a few weeks ago for my birthday. Thankfully (I'm taking it as a blessing), it didn't even work out of the box, so we sent it back, and I found Techmoan's video about the cheapness and how rampant the mechanism was. That led me to do research and discover the AT-LP60. Definitely going to be purchasing this one in the Victrola's place. Thank you VWestlife!
Wow, what a well researched video. Gosh, you actually spent sooooo much time to get rid of common myths associated with turntables. I have a Pioneer one, came with the Hi-Fi (British) system. I'll dig it out now.
Dude I love your channel, you are always so calm and rational that even when you make videos with no personal interest for me I still like to watch them. Greetings from Mexico!
The Orbit is a decent basic turntable made in Boston, MA. But it omits some refinements even these inexpensive Hanpins have. Namely, no anti-skate, and for that price, no built in preamp/equalizer or tonearm cueing. The Orbit also uses a MDF platter, and an AC synchronous motor with no speed feedback. Speed changes are accomplished manually by physically changing the belt's position on the motor capstan. However, you can upgrade the cartridge to an Ortofon OM series, and get some seriously decent sound from this inexpensive Beantown spinner.
They recently redesigned their tonearm and it now includes antiskating. The previous tonearm did have some moderate antiskating because of the inherent tension in the tonearm wires. Overall I think you get more performance for your money with the Orbit, and it has a very nice upgrade path.
Vinylengine BMRR? That you? I haven't looked at the revised version of the Orbit arm. I'll have to give them a call, maybe start carrying them in my shop.
I don't see why these tables would have a problem with vinyl skipping given the modest 3.5g tracking force. I have a cartridge that recommends 1.5g of tracking force, and even that doesn't skip unless something is seriously wrong with the record! I'm actually surprised the wow/flutter rating on the AT-LP120 is 0.2%, the whole point of direct drive was to increase stability (the SL-1900 is rated at 0.03% WRMS, -70dB rumble). Also, audiophiles are never satisfied, hence the existence of things like the 700+lb Clearaudio Statement turntable that sells for a "bargain" $170,000.... and that doesn't include the recommended $15,000 Goldfinger Statement cartridge or the equally expensive pre-amp, amp, and speakers. At that rate, you might as well hire people for live performances, it likely sounds just as good ;). Heck, it might even be cheaper!
As to the the wow & flutter rating - I was kind of surprised too that it's rated as high as it is. But then I realized that as a low priced model they had to cut some corners to stay competitive, although, I don't really see why it had to be THAT high. I think they could have easily had it at, say, 0.08% - 0.1% at the same price.
A flaw in the AT-LP120's design is that the quartz lock only checks and adjusts the speed once per rotation. That causes a problem called "cogging" where the speed constantly speeds up and slows down slightly, which contributed to its unusually high wow & flutter rating for a direct-drive turntable.
I wouldn't call it a flaw, per se. It's more a design compromise. But only once per rotation? You've got to have 3 hall sensors to detect direction, which this table does. And that's going to generate a signal that gets compared to the internal clock from the quartz crystal in an integrator chip. The integrator chip (at least in most designs) adjusts a reference voltage sent to the motor driver chip that sets the drive speed. Old school quartz lock tables check every 5-6 degrees of rotation, which is why they score W&F numbers that get down to the minimum the test equipment can detect.
I started out with an LP60. Since then, I've upgraded to much better equipment, but I still tell people who are getting into records to start with the LP60. It was a great little turntable for the money. I feel it's the best model for a newcomer to experience what makes vinyl so alluring without breaking the bank.
I have a AT-LP60 and I love it to bits. I always wanted a record player to play my parents records but the information and choices are pretty overwhelming for a beginner. The guy at a Best Buy near me showed me the record player and said trust me and don’t listen to the online forums. I did a little more research and went with it. I’m so happy with it and everything about it is so easy and makes me want to expand on my collection and hobby for playing records.
people on the forums didnt test if they have anti skating because that would mean that they would find out that they were wrong and as we know, people on forums dont like that at all, they're right all the time 🙄🙄🙄
I like my AT LP60. One criticism that I think is fair is that the build quality isn’t the best, but it isn’t total crap either. It’s mostly made of light plastic and the buttons do feel flimsy and like they’d break pretty easily, but having said that, I’ve had it for three years and have used it pretty regularly, and so far I have had nothing fail.
This has been super helpful in my tough decision making venture of finding a good starter record player. Vwestlife, my hats off to you and your devotion to inform the people on the truth.
The LP60 is definitely not as bad as Crosley, it's a little more 'low-end', but it's a good beginner's turntable. i'm an audiophile, but not a dickhead that shits on anyone that can't afford to spend 500 to 1000 dollars on a Pro-Ject or Technics turntable. People have budgets and these are good turntables
Have you ever played with one? I don't shit on anyone's equipment either, but the LP60 is impossibly cheap if you didn't know turntables you might think it was a prop for a movie set or something. If you subtract the amount that went into all the auto features, how much really went in to playback? I mean, feel the platter, look at the tonearm, people do have budgets but that certainly doesn't make this a "good turntable" by any stretch of my imagination. This is for someone who doesn't care about fidelity and just wants to play records because they like the nostalgia. That people like that exist doesn't matter, it's great there's a dirt cheap turntable they can buy, still doesn't make it good and doesn't make anyone a dickhead for pointing that out.
Like I said, feel one...now feel the platter from a Rega entry level Planar 1. Turntables components need to have mass and be inert, the LP60 platter is like a plastic frisbee compared to decent entry level tables.
Esteban Burke for a $100, it is a good turntable. I’ve had one for 4 years, haven’t even changed the stylus, still sounds great. Plays a hair fast at times but it’s not noticeable outside of direct comparison of the song to itself. Tone arm and platter are fine, they do their job, not like you’re gonna be banging the thing around.
Nicely done video! Great demonstrations to defend the points you make. I was pleased to see the strobe and pitch adjustment on the Pioneer. I had a Sony PS-LX250H that didn't have this feature and played noticeably fast. I recently replaced it with a Technics SL-BD22, which has it and two other features I found important: 1) A ground wire (the Sony was supposed to be self-grounding but produced a distracting hum between tracks even at relatively lower volume) and 2) A tone arm lock. I grew up in the 70s when vinyl was pretty much the only available retail music format (please don't remind me of 8 tracks). I got away from records beginning around 1990 with the explosion of CD popularity. And, honestly, the CD is a superior *storage* device. But I've recently renewed my interest in vinyl. I'll admit that nostalgia plays a part in my rekindled appreciation of vinyl. Some music sounds (perhaps subjectively) crisper on vinyl, some not so much. There's just something - maybe intangible, maybe personal, whatever - about albums; the covers (especially a gatefold), the artwork and liner notes, etc. seem to make for a somewhat fuller experience.
Thanks for sharing this video. I bought an LP60 a few months back and noticed it was running a bit fast. Found the adjustment screws and got it dialed in perfectly! This is a great turntable, I highly recommend it.
I came across this while looking for a review on the Pioneer PL-990 that I am considering for my daughter who is getting into vinyl. What a great video: explanation of terminology, testing and empirical data presentation. I knew I wasn't going to buy a higher end turn table for her, just something to listen to her albums on a few times a week and this gives me a lot of confidence in either unit, but as stated the Pioneer has some speed adjustment so I'm happy with that. Thanks again, this is a great video!
Been saying for YEARS that the AT-LP-60 is the best record player I'd consider for the price. Honestly, it's what I play my LPs on, and with a really good pair of speakers there's nothing wrong with it!
As soon as I heard people saying anything with a strong bassline or drums was skipping I got really scared and looked over at my Bleach record. I’m thinking of getting an AT-LP60X and this really helped, so thank you :)
The Audio Technice lp60 is a great player, never skipped once, speed is perfect, you wont go wrong with it. Sound is great through my Sony setup. This is a great informative review, probably the best out there .
Thanks for the review. I bought a new Pioneer PL-99O on June 3rd, 2018 and it is an awesome turntable in a great price range too. I appreciate your taking the time and having the suggestion for others to choose.
Man, I'm so glad I watched this video. I have been listening to my cheap Aiwa turntable play records too fast for so long without realizing how easily I could adjust the speed. Thank you!
After much deliberation about what turntable to go for, or whether to even get into Vinyl at all, I've just bought and set up an AT LP 60 after watching this video and enjoying my first foray in records and I'm loving it! So simple to get started and sounds great even with a modest older amp/speakers. I can always work my way up to something More sophisticated later, but this is plenty good enough, and cheap! Thanks again
Many thanks for doing this presentation! I am currently in the market for a turntable and do NOT have a lot of $$$ . This helped me immensely in finding one I can afford. Thank you! Patrick
I would agree with pretty much everything in your video and it is refreshing to see someone who doesn’t just repeats what they hear/read somewhere. You do the tests and show those audio-fools to be wrong. To make it easier for beginners, I would like to add this: • 90% of the sound quality is the cartridge. • The Audio Technica cartridge used with these cheap TT’s is a fairly nice sounding good-value-for-money cartridge. Unless people own an audio setup costing many thousands, this cartridge is unlikely to hold the rest of the system back - but in this case they would be unlikely to buy those bottom end TT’s anyway. • In the old days, a new TT had to be set up. Setup (adjusting counter-weight, anti-skate and sometimes even installing/aligning the cartridge) requires skills not everybody has. When those new cheap TT’s do not require setup, this is an advantage for people new to vinyl. • If someone who starts with those entry level TT’s falls in love with vinyl and wants better sound or features, I would recommending selling the cheap TT and upgrade to a better. These cheapo are not meant to be upgraded.
After watching the anti-skating segment I want someone to do a record pressing where the record looks like a LaserDisc. Good work on this video. I love when people actually investigate things to get to the truth.
Sounds like Audiophiles are just as bad as some of us guitar nuts - insecure about purchasing a $3000 Bubinga Hand-Made Strat while I go out and do the gig on a $300 Squier and get the same result, lol. I was impressed with how well that thing handled the super warped Elton John 45 - I had a Loverboy album less warped and messed up than that and I eventually junked it because I just could not get it to play all the way through on the junky GPX I had in high school.
The headphone side of audophiles are actually getting better though, since the market is filled with high quality but affordable headphones. People can have solid sound from Sony MDR-V6 that can survive a decade no problem, and it only cost $60-$100! Right now the community is fighting the rise of shitty overpriced headphones like Beats by introducing lots of affordable but better headphones.
Im glad to have found this video haha. I have used and owned a Presidian turntable since I was like 13 years old. I finally got it out of storage yesterday and had a long awaited reunion with it. To me its always worked just fine and sounded good. Last night whilst browsing vinyl videos, I saw enough videos recommending 200 dollar turntables, that it made me feel like maybe my turntable is inadequate haha. It does have its issues, but it makes me happy. Thats all that matters
Thank you. Learned a lot. How to measure tracking force on those types of turntables correctly for instance. That they have anti-skating surprised me really and that even the audio technica has a speed control is great to know. This supports my opinion, that the audio technica is one of - if not *the* - best entry level turntable money can buy. If someone tries to argue about, I will send him to this video.
Thank you so much for making this video. I'm planning on buying an Audio-Technica AT-LP60 soon, because It's the best player I can get on a tight budget. I wasn't sure if it was good, and worth my money, and all these tests you've run have proven that it's just the one I need. Thanks!
I got Dual CS 515 for $15 from a Salvation Army. I cleaned and adjusted it a bit but it worked fine out the door. It's specs aren't too bad wow and flutter are only .08% and has a tracking force of 1.3 grams (using the method in the video to test). It currently has the Ortofon DN 165E it came with which still had its protective cap. It's frequency response is okay at 10-25,000 Hz but that is a bit better than the 20-20,000 Hz of the AT3600 shown. Again for $15 it's great. So while I think these machines shown in the video are actually decent value if you are on budget you should also consider the local thrift store. You might not only find something decent but superior at a lower cost. Just make sure you know what you're getting before you buy. Keep a reference like Vinyl Engine ready, give it a good look over, and plug it in to be sure it powers on as it should.
Kendall Tawes Definitely check the thrift stores. One of my local thrift store Savers even offers a one week return policy on electronics. I got a twelve year old Sony 5 disc cd player for twenty bucks with remote, worked fine, just needed lightly cleaned up a bit.
Saying it's not as bad as a cheap turntable with a ten inch platter and ceramic phono cartridge is a pretty low bar. "Hey, my Kia is better than a Yugo!"
Excellent review of the entry level tables. You make some excellent points. I would not recommend upgrading the stylus to anything "sharper" than a .4 X .7 elliptical. 3.5g VTF is very high, by modern standards. Installing a .3 X .7 will sound much more detailed, until it rapidly wears the grooves and the stylus itself due to the much smaller groove contact patch. These turntables come with a conical stylus for a couple of reasons. The first is cost. The second is record wear. These turntables are built to a price point, and as such they have to focus their available construction budget on what makes the most sense. They offer convenience features such as tonearm automation and a built in riaa preamp/equalizer. The cartridge and stock stylus' compliance are a decent match to the tonearm's effective mass, and should keep resonance down around 10Hz. The turntable motor's servo electronics are not all that great. They don't correct for dynamic stylus drag very well (unlike your Technics), but not much worse than competitors from the audiophile brands using AC synchronous motors. Vibration isolation is an afterthought on these basic turntables. Motor noise can be clearly audible (and picked up by the cartrdige), too, on well seasoned units. Are they terrible, no. Are they great, no. They're entry level. Use one for a year or two, and upgrade when you have the interest and funds. Jeez...that Daniel 45. I wouldn't even try to play it on one of my SL-1200s. Even the cheap cartridges I run are too expensive to subject to that kind of abuse.
I agree. The 3.5g VTF of the AT-3600 cartridge is a significant improvement above the Chuo-Densi ceramic cart that requires 5+. However, when you get into the truly high performance MM cartridges and styli, such as carts sporting MicroRidge, MicroLine, Fine LIne, Shibata, etc, you'll notice that they track more around 1.25 to 1.75g VTF, and groove wear is not much of a factor any more. The suspension is much more compliant, which allows the stylus to trace the groove much more faithfully and pull mind blowing amounts of detail from the grooves. But at that point, your're spending more on a cartridge than you've probably spent on turntables, styli, belts, etc.
It's not just the VTF that matters in a cartridge, its the tracking resistance. The weight of what is attached to the other end of the cantilever itself matters a lot. This is the entire premise behind moving coil cartridges, because the moving coil itself is so lightweight they track like no other due to less resistance and thus wear the vinyl considerably less than even comparable moving magnets. This is also why they have a very good bass response. Most people have never heard a MC cartridge before.
Adding onto what I said, its not just the 5 grams of VTF of a ceramic cartridge that kills vinyl, its basically because the cantilever is directly attached to a piece of piezoelectric material with very little dampening, very high resistance to movement.
@spikester...Yes. There are a number of factors that go in to how well a particular cartridge tracks the grooves and tracking force is just one of the factors. A low output MC cartridge tracks grooves extremely faithfully because of lower effective tip mass (what you were referring to) and less vibrational energy is being converted to electrical energy. The cartridge is a generator. Generating more electrical output energy takes more energy from from the vibrating stylus and cantilever assembly, making it resist changing velocity more than a low output cartridge.
Extremely informative video! I was looking at both of these for my workshop and now I'm more confident to buy the Pioneer after listening to your reviews. Thank you!
This video gave me confidence in the Sony PS-LX300USB I bought and refurbished for $40. I have a 70 year old 10” LP, and it now sounds like I have a barbershop quartet in the room with me.
Awesome video. Snobbery is definitely in every hobby (talking as a photographer here hahah). Really glad you did your research and put a lot of these misconceptions to bed. Not everyone has thousands of dollars to drop for their music setup, so this was a very helpful and non-biased video! Thank you x
I have the SONY one without USB and I know it's not much of a turntable, but I'm pretty happy with it. One thing I can confirm - it does NOT skip on modern vinyl. It skipped on me only once (not counting scratched vinyl) on a second hand album which was an unusually thin vinyl and probably saw some spinning in its time. Thank you for doing this video, now I know I'm not missing important features just because I don't have full controll on them. I'd love to have more advanced machine in the future which matches better my system, but I think I'm OK for the time being.
This was the perfect video for me. I have an AT LP-60 and my faith has been restored in it! I may look at getting a different stylus and see if that’s a cheap upgrade worth doing! Thank you for the thorough review and explanations!
![[MV] A leap of faith...ความเชื่อใจครั้งสุดท้าย (From "Petrichor the series")](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U1piZH2CNXA/mqdefault.jpg)
The snobbery surrounding adult hobbies is ridiculous. I run into the same attitudes in audio equipment, guns, home brewing, cars, retro video games, music, whiskey, home theater, pinball... That primitive tribal mentality is alive in well in modern men. Just do what you like and ignore the haters.
Ryan Barnhart Super Nintendo, Sega Genesis
I totally get the snobbery around audio equipment. Its just something where everyone has their own very specific taste. I actually hated every set of speakers i heard in stores near me so i ended up saying fuck that and built my own exactly how i wanted them
I've run into this with a friend who is into cigars; buy vintage or quality cigars from the right places, store them in the right humidor, cut them at the right length, with the right cutter, don't remove the label, use the right lighter, and don't inhale, just taste. It's as if not following firm rules (i.e dogma) means you are not taking the hobby seriously, and is not worth the effort. As someone who would rather improvise and find the best process that works for me, it's frustrating to say the least.
Yeah, I'm into watches and dealing with snobs who worship Swiss made watches is just ridiculous. The most bullshit they ever said is that a Rolex need a whole year to be made. Also their hatred for Japanese made watches is reaching crusader level. They also can't deal with the fact Grand Seiko just came out with the smoothest second arm movement. It's funny to see them completely lose their mind when China able to produce Tourbillon technology.
Cars and guns, I can sort of see. But snobbery in ALCOHOL? RETRO VIDEO GAMES? FRIGGIN PINBALL?!
How the hell, mates?!
I think a lot of vinyllovers people just don‘t realize that not everybody who likes vinyls is an audiophile.Some people just want to listen to records for fun and the vibe and not pay an arm and a leg.
Facts!! I’m not super picky about sound quality I just want to have fun and listen to records!
Literally have the cheapest one I could find , needed one because I’m a collector , and vinyls are part of my collection , simply needed one to be able to play them if I want
The giant artwork and the aesthetic of records in a shelf is a huge appeal. Vinyl is also an easier format to finish a whole record. You'd think streaming but I feel committed with vinyl. Streaming I can just switch a song from my phone.
Tbh half the reason I jumped in was so I could put cool vinyl arts on my wall when I'm not playing them
i think because they have other responsibilities and paying arm and leg for a record player for that minimal audio quality improvement is not worth.
A music lover listens to his records on his equipment, while an audiophile listens to his equipment playing his records.
great analogy.
Isn't that the truth. I like that.
I agree these audiophile guys have their life balance nob way off ,(in my opinion ). Also some of these music lovers are way out there to. ( You play the music don't let the music play you). Take your wife or girlfriend Dancing ( ballroom) , try music with movement . And stop smoking dope !
There’s nothing wrong with either point of view
@@MrLeo7627 this nigga waltzed in here from 1912.
I definitely heard skipping on the daft punk track. It played the "we're up all night to get lucky" part repeatedly!
It happened to me on an Eminem record actually
My albums from the Police have that exact same problem!
if you actually listened to the song you will the song says that phrase 6 times
@@lunatic3783 r/whoosh
My turntable must skip really bad every time I play the Top Gun soundtrack, especially on the Kenny Loggins song. But the Take My Breath Away song is just as bad...
Ok there's actually a little difference, but I'm starting to think that these audiophiles are just trying to justify they spent 600 dollars just to listen to stereo sound.
It really is diminishing returns in quality the more you pay. Guitars are the same. The difference between a $2500 Gibson LP and an $6000 Gibson LP is minimal. But, the difference between a $400 Epiphone Lp(Gibson) and a $2500 Gibson LP is substantial in audio quality. But, it really is about what motivates the person using it. Maybe, that minimal tone is enough to push them to everyday use, so for them the extra money pays for itself over time in use. For someone who doesn't get that, then it is a waste of money. It really is just a personal perspective thing.
I had an ATLP60 and now a Rega Planar P1 (@$600) - the sound improvement is enormous. It's not a lot to spend when you consider what is out there.
@@wordragon upgrade the pickups on the Epiphone, will sound just as good as the Gibson.
I think audiophiles would consider $600 a budget, entry level turntable. Maybe $20K or above.
I said a pair of speaker cables on ebay here in UK for £38,000 today!!! At first I thought it was for speakers but no it was for cables. Absolutely insane.
Good on you, defending these turntables and putting unfair criticism to rest about their specs. These are fine record players and will give the the people who own them many hours of enjoyable music listening. I've been an audiophile for many years and I say if you enjoy music then that's the only thing that really matters, no matter what the music is you enjoy or what you enjoy it on. I hate it when people knock on other people's audio equipment. There were times when I could only afford an AM radio that I bought in a thrift store but it made it so I could listen to music. Bottom line, if you are enjoying what you have for listening to music then be happy with it and don't let anyone tell you different. There's a real difference between being an audiophile and being a prigg. If you tell people that their equipment is crap then you're the latter. I'll set down with anyone to listen to music no matter what the gear is they are playing it on.
MrEnigmagg Well put!
I would applaud if you could hear it.
I agree with you man. Snobbery sucks, enjoying it no matter what budget is tops.
Couldn't have said it better
@@nateburger1918 Wow, more snobbery. (I kid.)
When this man busted out the Daft punk after seeing that windows 98 era desktop in the background made me fall out of my chair
That’s older than 98. Probably dos and win 3.1
@Xendrian YZ burp was talking about the one behind the record
@XYGR Gammel Group It's definitely just his theme, he has Steam installed so his gaming on that PC.
Rocking the AOL Running man icon too! lol classic! :-D
"30 dollars is the most ive ever spent on a record"
"I can't believe nobody actually bothered to test this" - you mean, you expect the _explicitly anti-evidence audio-hipster community_ to actually *test* something?? =D
KooriShukuen Don't trust hipster Audiophiles.
Good Audiophiles will tell you what's best.
FLACs for PC
High bitrate lossy codecs for Mobiles.
But aren't most rabid Audiophiles hipsters?
Is that true? I have a mix of both on both. I am no expert so just went with what I thought was going to give me a good audio performance.
i agree and its a total pain in the ass when i get right down to it. i prefer flac as much as possible when listening from my htpc but at the same time for mobile i only have 48 gigs to work with so i either gotta swap out the music (which is no biggie) constantly because flac is big or i settle for 320kbps mp3. the issue is 2 fold. 1 that means i have multiple copy's on my desktop for home/Mobil for a good chunk of my collection, and 2 my mobile is also the primary music source for my car stereo because its quicker n easier then mp3 cd's/ browsing a usb stick even though its a touchscreen deck. the problem is i got a bad ass system in the car so of course i want to hear the best it can offer. ya being an audiophile is a bit of a chore but totally worth it in my book.
zeroa69 only 48 gigs? When vinyl was invented that much memory on any device would have been thought impossible. 48 gigabytes is enough to hold thousands of song's
Sounds like the people who talk these down are trying to justify buying an overly expensive unit by attacking something that just gets the job done without the bells, whistles or branding.
Exactly! Anyone who spends $10,000 on a turntable is a fucking moron. It's a spinning wheel for fuck sake.
My spinning wheel and needle is better than your spinning wheel and needle.
Ealdy nuh uh I bet my spinning wheel and needle sound better than your spinning wheel and needle
As a person who just got an AT-LP60XBT today I can safely say that it plays a modern 180g record just fine.
The 60X plays them even finer with an elliptical stylus and an acrylic platter mat.
One time my friend said "it skips" and proceeded to smack the table to make it skip lol.
Probably because higher end tables wouldn't. I can hit my Numarks pretty hard before the record would skip. Great for parties & drunk idiots who get too close to your stuff! (And my tables were only like $199 each...20 yrs ago! So pretty affordable.)
I like to listen to my records while using my jackhammer.
@@CarrotConsumer 😂👍
Even my rp7000 with the dj cart on it will skip if you bump the turntables.
Quite frankly, unless its a vestax with a dynamically balanced arm, it would concern me if it didn't skip when it got bumped. Because that could mean it tracks heavy as all hell.
There's a difference between bass making the needle skip, from tracking or speakers, and actually bumping the fucking things.
@@CarrotConsumer LOOL
Audiophools just love to hate on anything that didn't cost thousands of dollars.
Pretty much just a way to say "I'm fucking rich!"
When you spend a lot of money on something, you actually start to think it's better. Differently priced wine of the same sort works that way.
Totally right. I remember one time an advert for a new hot Coupé came on and everyone was wowed and saying what am amazing car it was and when it was revealed it was a Peugeot, not a Porsche as they thought everybody was like "what a f*cking ugly car!"
@@midge_gender_solek3314 is like apple fanboy
There are good $100 vintage turntable too. At least at thrift store will sell a good one.
I've had a AT-LP60 for a few years now and for my ears it's fine plus it always works. I could go buy a better turntable but I feel that money is better spent on buying more records instead.
Audio Technica is a great brand--probably one of the best for entry-level audiophiles. I don't know if the one in this video is one of those models with the lift mechanism that lets you pause the vinyl--I've had my eye on one of those for a little while (preferably belt drive, which I know the AT model in this video is), because I often get interrupted and called away while listening, and when I tried moving the needle back before I think I may have ruined one of my most treasured albums.
The LP60 is probably the cheapest record player you would want to get. For the price it’s a great turntable. If you only casually listen to records every now and then, and you don’t want a super premium turntable, then this is the best record player you can get. For about $100, it is amazing. And it won’t damage your records.
i am no audiophile but a serious music lover! i have had the LP60 for a few years as a way to return to vinyl and i have not complaints,great value!
I know I'm extremely late, but you might see it, I guess.
So I would just like to ask: What do you feel like the most apparent shortcomings of that turntable are? How exactly does it sound "fine"?
(I currently don't plan on buying a turntable, but I just got my first decent pair of headphones, so I'm getting more into quality audio. And as someone who has never heard music other than digital, analog peaked my interest a little bit. Perhaps one day!)
This is why I am always torn about the audiophile community. On one end they can bring some great info to the table in regards to what equipment sounds good. But on the other they can be really annoying when they don't always understand why someone wouldn't want to spend a few grand on a record player and a few more on speakers and amps. Not all are like that but some get on my nerves, especially when they talk about hearing frequencies far above what the human ear could ever hear.
A friend of mine felt that way until I sang the part in the looking glass song brandy, where she could feel the ocean fall and rise as he told his sailor's story, he said he could never figure out what they were saying, it's amazing what you miss without discretion
So true like as someone who makes music thats what i dont like about audiophiles like ts is so annoying
Yeah, saw someone on reddit asking about getting a LP60X and some of the comments were just going "no, go buy this $500 turntable with a $400 receiver and $600 speakers". Like wow.
Yeah, reddit vinyl community is pretty much complete cancer. Thanks for the correct review, I'll buy myself the Sony player, since it's widely available in my country.
Alexis snobbery
It's pretty much a place where they can flex their money power.
Anything reddit is cancer.
I have that Pioneer PL-990. never had a problem with it, i'm not an audiophile and can't stand that crowd, nothing is ever good enough for them, best to stay away from that crowd.
Not sure about that i saw a reddit post where they said a cheap ass turntable with a good needle can beat out any flagship turntable with a bad needle.
I've heard of Crosleys being bad, but not an LP60
I’ve owned both. The Crosley I had was the very cheap suitcase model which was horrible. The speed fluctuated and the sound was muddled and narrow. The at-lp60 has been great though, sounds incredible and very clear
Many Crossley models are build by the same Chinese company that builds the LP60 and LP120.
They build some nice models in the $200-$300 range.
It's the suitcase model specifically that has a bad reputation, but "audiophiles" are screaming their heads off over them as if Crossley is trying to get them to replace their $20,000 setups with a $50 all-in-one.
Some people just can't afford their standards and sometimes a dad just buys their kid a cheap player to play that pile of records that has been gathering dust in the attic for over 20 years.
It really isn't always about the sound quality, sometimes it is just about playing records.
@@muskiet8687 exactly. I always hate to see enthusiasts try to shove their superiority onto people who are just trying to enjoy something new. It seems counter productive since they are most likely turning people away from a hobby they both enjoy. Gatekeeping at its finest. I know it all too well since I just got into vinyls and I had a victrola Eastwood 3 and was shunned for it. I bought primarily rap albums and was shunned for it. It definitely hurt a lot of my enthusiasm towards my new hobby. I felt embarrassed about it since I didn’t want to seem to be a novice. I have now given the Eastwood 3 to my mother so she can play her old vinyls, and I bought an AT LP60x. I’m still buying the rap albums tho, that won’t change.
@@muskiet8687 is the at lp60x the same as lp60? I am new to the vinyl scene I’ve had my lp60x for about 2 years and played every record I own on it so far I have no problems except on one record that I got that had a scratch on it
@@dannagarcia2556
Any turntable you enjoy is a good turntable.
Don't worry about specifics and keep listening to the music.
Don't make it about the equipment.
This is why I love vwestlife. Very knowledgeable in his videos, and he covers a wide variety of equipment without being snobbish.
Its the main thing I love about him and Vinyl TV the only 2 guys I trust with this subject matter tho micheal framer isn't bad when he's not being a dick still tho
I think so, too, wa27! VWestlife tells like it is; although I search for a middle ground, have mostly moderate hi fi equipment, I believe that you do not need to pay an enormous amount of money for a hi fi component. There is a point of diminishing returns. There are prices of turntables that are in the stratosphere that can turn your hair white. I don't believe in paying very multi-hundred dollars, to the thousands for a record player.If I get another turntable I have more than plenty of money, I would I'd get another car.
HELLO WHICH IS WINNER?AUDIO TECH.OR THE PIONEER?
@@marcosulit940 Neither.
this is Techmoans video
Thank you! I initially wanted the AT LP60 for a gift for my elderly Dad who hasn't had a turntable in 50 years but I remember fondly when he used to play records when I was a child. He still has the records. I did research and thought it wasn't a good choice but now you have explained my concerns I'm getting it for Christmas! Thank you, I subscribed 😊
The problem with your channel is you prove things with logic, reason, proof and evidence.. not hearsay and opinion.
No one will believe your outrageous claims my friend! =P
Yo personally take it from a man who’s owned a few different tables before I converted to the at lp 120. That audio technica lp 60 is not just popular but very dependable. It worked perfectly until the day I sold it to a friend. He has no complaints
I can't say I've ever had any complaints about my Audio Technica AT-LP60. Sure it's cheap and lacks the alluring aesthetics of a Technics SL-1200 or any of its clones, but its modest price tag allow financial resources to be redirected to such things as acquiring more vinyl records.
Audiophiles may forever disagree on and condemn the use of a budget oriented turntable for the long-term enjoyment of vinyl, but I'm content breaking the "rules." If somebody takes such great offense to your using a turntable that will "chew up and destroy" a record and its grooves, maybe they ought to incur the expense of buying an audiophile-approved model for you!
StereoDustParticles PREACH!
and most importantly, it's not a Crosley!
Jake Denton lol
And the AT-LP60 is now *audiophile approved* thanks to Michael Fremer!
If you ask an audiophile whats best for sound and you dont get it and assume theyre just shitting on your gear, you've missed the point. Yes you can play vinyl on your cheap turntable and you may enjoy the result. You also might enjoy mp3.
With the right album, the right turntable/cartridge/stylus combination, amp and speakers you can extract HD quality audio from the vinyl. (A lot of people tell me they cant tell the difference between standard definition and 1080P HD on tvs. Most people will know theres a big difference. Same with audio if you have good hearing)
You can also play it on cheap gear and not get the same quality sound but if you dont know any better, you may believe you get a great sound.
If the last sentance describes yourself then stick to cd or mp3 as vinyl is very fragile and expensive compared to cd and it will cost a lot to acquire the right gear to play it in the quality it was recorded with..
Many,many people do not have a lot of money to sink into the hobby. If this can provide enjoyment to them, the let us welcome them into the wonderful world of records.
Agreed. Also remember that back then vinyl is very commonly used so of course there's many good affordable vinyl players. Seems like many vinyl snobs forget about that and think that vinyl community is an elite group.
John Long I agree. I’m not bothering with buying one. It’s too complicated!!
Yes you use the correct words to describe it!!! Keep spinning pal cheerz!!!
You know, I didn't know that some turntables had the spring mechanism in the tonearm before I watched this video. I always used to think "no counterweight, so it's bad". Now, I know that the tracking force is determined by other mechanisms apart from a counterweight, something I haven't heard from these "audiophiles". Thanks for this video.
I was the same. Probably because id been watching videos by snobs lol
Some decently high end tonearms from garrard used to use this same system yes it was a bit more adjustable but still a spring system.
same here
turns out engineers who design these products probably know more than armchair experts on Reddit
It's an ancient method used back in the 50s a lot.
The way that turntable handles a warped record is insane. As a person who mostly gets my records super cheap from goodwill or rummage sales, making bad records sound good is super important to me.
Washing them with dishsoap and warm water helps remove alot of sins people leave on albums, most hissing and popping can be eliminated
I Bought the Audio Technia LP60, have it a Year, plays perfect, No Issues, Same Stylus, with cost me 150.00Euro, and a set of Speakers for the same price, Total 300.00 Euro.... No Complaints, great Turntable, the LP60.
Enjoy fren.
The audiophile crowd always knows better and are generally pretty grumpy. I say let everyone enjoy vinyl in his own way.
Well, who is getting a record player is not really an audiophile. Just a dumb person who still believe nothing would sound better. Just a lack of knowledge, intollerance and ignorance :)
@dom , I'm no audiophile and I do recognize there is EASIER ways to adquire music but I like the feeling of vinyl, the fact that I can see my collection and that I can play it on a turntable. Is not a 100% logical hobby or decision. Hope this comment helps.
I had to go to a Facebook group to get help with a cassette deck because nobody would cover something that wasn't a nakamichi (probably spelt it wrong)
For a budget vinyl enthusiast or a beginner, these turntables are a great value, and SOOOO much better than the cheaper Crosley style turntables. Of course audiophiles are going to say they are junk. There is a sweet spot with price to performance. Something like a Crosley isnt very good at a 59.99 price point, but going up another 40-60 dollars you get 10 times the performance for way less than 10 times the cost. I would say that turntables 300 dollars and above, that price to performance ratio drops way down, that you can spend thousands more to only get a negligible improvement.
You have obviously not experienced a turntable with a high end tonearm or cartridge.
The AT-LP60 is OK for people starting out. We all have to start somewhere. More money gets you more quality, and better audio. No...It's NOT a negligible improvement. It's HUGE.
Except Michael Fremer of course, which has said that the AT-LP60 is *okay.*
@@alm3333 Actually I HAVE. The difference IS negligible at best, even with top tier speakers and equipment. The ceiling for audio quality as far as Vinyl goes isn't that high. On the other hand it is fun to play around with equipment. Not sure it's worth thousands and thousands of dollars to do that but...to each his own.
I agree with the diminishing returns after a couple hundred dollars, at least as far as sound quality goes. I think there are lots of things you can get when you spend more money, but I do believe for about $300 it's possible to get something that sounds really very good and reaches most of the way to the best there is. Sure a $6,000 turntable will sound better, if it's hooked to $24,000 worth of gear. But will it sound 20x better? Of course not.
I have had a $500 turntable, a $1,000 turntable and now I use a $2,000 turntable. They all sound about the same when played through an AV receiver. I do think they sound a bit better than an entry level UTurn, but only when they're hooked up to much more expensive components.
Turntables with speakers built in are generally pretty bad value, but there are great models to be had in the $100 to $300 price range.
Owners need to make sure their turntable is *level* if the anti-skating is to work properly so the record doesn't skip. I would have mentioned that. Fair reviews overall!
Thank you for de-bunking so many myths. The world of Audio is full of snobbery and false claims, often commercially driven. This is the best video I can remember watching for a long time.
Top video, thanks to your review I'm getting an Audio-Technica AT-LP60 this Christmas, and you've gained a subscriber.
Keep on shooting down the insecure audiophiles, and spreading actual researched information
paddy flatley Awesome profile picture
I am new to Viynl and our family room was a vintage turntable while I’m asking for a Victrola for Christmas for my bedroom and If I enjoy it so much I will probably upgrade to an audio technica or another vintage
The Crosley stuff, I get why people hate it. But, I wouldn't call these turntables horrible. In fact, I would RECOMMEND turntables in these price range for people who want to get into vinyl.
And THIS is why I no longer consider myself an "audiophile".
Same, but for someone like my aunt who is in her late 70's and has a large record collection from the 50's - 80's my late uncle left her. and needs for things to work, and be simple as they can be, since she is not very technically minded, then the $99 Crosley with tape, CD, and AM/FM radio with a retro wood grain look did just the trick, and has played all her records just fine for her needs.
I got my GF a Crosley to get her interested in vinyl. It works.. Slowly building up the HIFI set to something where I can get a phono pre-amp and some technics table.. But for the time being, that Crosley is doing its job just fine.
The only problem I found is that the adapter lacked the amps to power the motor for heavy vinyl.. With another adapter, this problem was easily remedied.
because crozleys are so cheap their bad
Diggnuts Crosleys ar GARBAGE
Crosley has a higher end TT I believe it's Pro-Ject they have making them, so they now have an option that's substantially better than the crappy LP60.
As a 17 year old that wanted to get into vinyl but was broke as hell, the AT-LP90 has done a great job for me. I got it about 8 months ago and the only complaint I have is that the speed went out of whack about 2 months ago, but this was fixed relatively easily and it has retained the correct speed. Overall it sounds great and does the job on a budget, not sure why people are getting all snobbish over it.
Yung Walt hey I'm a 17 yr old that wants to get into vinyl also
Heyo same here
I’m really late, but same
*AT-LP60*
The irony. When I was 17 or perhaps a year or two younger, I was so relieved to get away from vinyl and cassette. Yes, records are tactile and the album art could be incredible. But there is simply no getting past the fact that CD's hold more, better music and have all of the abilities that only the highest end turntables offered (track skip, repeat, etc).
I sometimes pine for the record ritual, until I think about it long enough.
I currently have a 64gb micro thumb drive in my receiver with somewhere around 50-75 cd's of lossless wav (mostly classical). I can listen to hours of music from my seat, without worrying about someone jostling the player, cleaning the records, worrying about someone mistreating them, an control everything with a remote.
That wasn't a blank disc. It was a recording of John Cage's 4'33".
Very good video, BTW.
That's good. Thank you.
That is pretty funny. Good job.
The title should instead be: "Expensive Turntables - are they really THAT good?"
@Scott Frobel hahahahaha
@Scott Frobel no wow factor? Lame.
@Scott Frobel ok bro, go pay 1000000 dollars on these shits, I’m going to use this money to buy more records
@@lucca6314 it's only $1000 for a technics sl-1200 which is actually a good turntable.
@@rillloudmother wtf fuck no I ain’t buying that shit rather buy the 100 dollar one
The lengths he goes to to prove the snobs wrong is really inspiring.
I had one of these. They are great for the price. If you're in the market for plug and play, and new to records, I concur with the entire video. Vintage isn't for everyone. This is like the Toyota Corolla of record players.
I don't know, my turntable was reliable if nothing else... I changed the stylus at least five times before I retired it. Reminded me lots of taking a trip in a rental Corolla.. bland, unexciting, "got the job done", etc. Yugo has too much character for the comparison to work, and I never owned one or had the pleasure of riding in one, but I understand they are famously bad!
Does that mean they have very few problems, even if they are nothing to look at?
Yes, exactly. You remove it from the box, plug it in, discard the shipping materials, and start playing records... next attention comes in 1000 hours when you change the stylus. At that point you just unclip the old one and clip in a new one. Nothing to adjust, no screws, no tiny wires, nothing to replace. And it even has a "play" button and a "stop" button so no chance of slipping and scratching a prized record with big thumbs. And it has auto-return so no chance of leaving the stylus going around in circles in the :dead wax" for hours if you fall asleep or get distracted. They're pretty easy on records too, and you won't hear that they don't sound as good as a better player unless you are connecting them to speakers and amplifiers worth many times the cost of these modest players - which would then be a totally unbalanced system anyway. Is this competition for Clearaudio? NO, it isn't, this is an object of pure function and modest performance, like a Corolla - hence my initial comparison.
maxhifi 123 cheap, plastic, low quality, Chinese made crap. Will destroy your records.
James Reeno There's maxhifi 123 who told his own experience and then there's you, a snob who can only post generic condescending comment. I prefer to listen to maxhifi 123's opinion who actually gave his personal experience than you. You remind me of watch snob in my community who keep saying watches under 1000 dollars only belong to garbage can.
That blew my mind how well the Pioneer played the warped Elton John record.
Great video. You blew me away with all of the evidence shown. I recently got an ATLP60, and after going online, I found that it was shunned by a lot of people for a lot of the reasons you stated. I do plan on upgrading one day, but for now I'm content.
I have no interest or intention to buy a record player but I watched the whole video or to me a great description of the record players. You did a very good job on explaining what a record player does and what to look for. I have knowledge on something I do not own because of you. Great job bro
Thanks!
21:19
If it doesn't skip on _that_ it doesn't skip on daft punk's LP.
That record is just so mutilated.. Yet it does give the perfect example on the turntable staying still and actually not skipping as it was claimed to do.
@@thatretrocattt : Actually, it was a different Daft Punk LP that causes skipping... VWestlife also covered this in his much newer 'AT-LP60 Vs. AT-LP60X' review video, where he shows that the new LP60X doesn't skip on that LP - or with several other records that have caused problems with the original LP60 and it's other brand derivatives.
Bought two of these in 2005 they were $99 a piece and are great starter equiptment. I kept them long after I upgraded and gave them to people starting out, a good trick on these is to unhook the belt if you dont use the table frequently. What people tend to forget is that a very high percentage of used records were played on very low quality and/or un-maintained equiptment. One of these is not going to destroy a record. It may sound sonically different due to the wow and flutter, microphonics of the hollow body, or even the cartridge limitations but that stuff is not usually severe enough to ruin the average listeners experience anyways.
I've listened to the LP60 I was pretty shocked at how good it was for 100 bucks or so. I would generally recommend someone get a used direct drive instead of one of these new but if you want to keep it simple and not have to deal with tuning everything on a DD table there's nothing wrong with one of these.
Of course 'audiophiles' will tell you it's bad. Buyer's remorse/stupidity won't let them say anything else.
Slay Exactly. A lot of audiophiles remind me of the fools in westerns that lap up the cure-all elixirs without second thought.
"You'll NEVER believe how much better this 2000$ setup is than your onboard audio and Superlux headphones."
Not much apparently. Then again, I don't have silver cables.
Audiophiles will tell you its bad, because in reality neither of these two turntables are all that great. Measurably and audibly, so. Do they do what they are intended to do? Yes! They enable those without a $1000+ budget to experience and enjoy the sound you get from playing vinyl records. But, despite all their low-budget virtues, they barely scratch the surface (pun intended) of what you can get performance wise from a player. Also, due to design decisions, you can't really upgrade one beyond changing the stylus to one that compromises stylus and record longevity for additional detail.
Unfortunately, high quality gear takes lots of time for R&D, testing, tooling up for manufacturing, and the more limited market space they deal with. All of these factors add to costs to the end users. I have yet to have an individual that I have counseled through the purchase of any piece of gear, experience buyers remorse, nor would I consider any of them stupid. Actually, quite the contrary.
Actually those superlux headphones and onboard audio aren't that great...
Might as well spend $60, and get a pair of Philips SHP9500 open backs, and if your onboard sound is not great then an ASUS Xonar sound card like the DG(if you have a free PCI slot) can be had for about $30 on Newegg($35 for the DGX PCIE variant with the same chipset), and I've used mine across 3 PC builds with no issues after installing the unified drivers, and keeping them up to date. I'm just saying you don't have to spend a lot more to get good quality that will last if you do your research.
I bought my daughter an Audio Technica turntable from Amazon for £99 so she could take some vinyl to university. Before she left home I hooked it up to my hi fi system which has a Thorens turntable worth £800. I swear I could not tell the difference in sound. If ever I need to replace my Thorens deck I’ll get one for myself. Absolute bargain, and my daughter loves it.
Great video. I set up ultra high end turntables for a living, and it's refreshing to see a less hysterical and less cynical review of these. When my niece asked for a record player for her 16th birthday, I got her an AT-LP60. She loves it, and has now taken if with her to college.
If people say these record players sound bad, they must be using cheap Logitec computer speakers, or some other cheap and crappy speakers.
don't hate on my z533, i'm broke ;(
I'm not hating on any of your equipment. If it suits your needs, good on you.
Was merely a joke. Don't worry about it.
I know that Captain Obvious. I was saying that if people say that these record players sound bad, they're obvious using crappy speakers.
@Weegee and His Butler He said "cheap" Logitech speakers. Had he said 'all Logitech speakers', of course, would have been a dumb-as-fuck statement, given that some can sound absolutely killer.
That was great. I was about to ditch my Optimus Lab 1100 and spend $400 on a new turntable hoping for something better but I've never been unhappy with it. I just felt bad for having such a cheap turntable when everyone else has a cool one haha. In only use turntables to play music (mainly 80s 12" singles) not available anywhere else. I've changed my mind now.
just yesterday I was looking for a turntable as a gift for my brother.
now youtube is crowded with related video recommendations.
at first I was annoyed. but now I am very glad I opened this video in particular.
awesome explanation.
I just bought a L250h for 20€ and it's working marvelously so I'm happy! My first record player. Thanks for all this knowledge.
2020: hOw ThE tUrNtAbLeS...
When you have cheap turntables from brands like Audio Technica, Pioneer, Sony, Dual, and Marantz, they can't be that bad, even if they're cheap. Brands like Boytone, Polariod, Crosley, and Victrola on the other hand...
ClayPF Crosley actually put out lots of different turntables like the project debut carbon, technics sl 1200, and even the project elemental. It’s good for what it does, give people the opportunity to find a place to start for vinyl. It’s just the cruiser-type stuff you need to keep away from.
Hey is the victrola 6 in 1 a bad turn table
BroBro Games Not at all! It's my first turntable and it works great for what it costs. Good turntable for beginners.
Boytone? Wasn’t that a teen pop group in the late ‘/90s?
Actually, Dual made some excellent turntables in the early '90's. I bought a Dual CS 450 belt drive made in Germany and still have it set up. Great sound.
im fine with my at lp60
offbrand totally agree. In my opinion you can't go wrong with Audio-technica products. They are one of those companies that do not fuck with "cheap" stuff. I would recommend it to anyone who is looking to buy a good affordable turntable. I personally have the LP60 usb version and that thing does wonders for me. Ripped a few of my LP's and they sound absolutely great once burned on CD's
offbrand likewise. Great sound quality, great amp built in. Only had one skip in months and it's because something moved it.
@Dark the loudness wars grew like a cancer on CDs and digital, that's why I prefer vinyl over the two now. If I can find versions of my favorite albums that doesn't have that problem on CD, I will buy it. If you want a example of what I'm talking about, look at stadium arcadium cd vs vinyl comparison. It's noticeable that the vinyl sounds better. Sadly, digital HD albums also have this issue.
Just bought it and it sounds amazing!! Truly recommend it. /r/vinyl is absolutely wrong
Benjamin Belzile I have the same one! Great turntable
Wow , this really made me feel better about myself . I have a old Sony record player from the early 2000's . I was always told I was ruining my records by playing them on my Sony . I'm low on funds atm and I'm in the process of moving . Once I'm setup I can enjoy my records in peace :)
Unless it's a worn old needle , you're totally fine.
I can't tell you how thankful I am for stumbling across your channel and these very helpful videos! I got one of those Victrola players a few weeks ago for my birthday. Thankfully (I'm taking it as a blessing), it didn't even work out of the box, so we sent it back, and I found Techmoan's video about the cheapness and how rampant the mechanism was. That led me to do research and discover the AT-LP60. Definitely going to be purchasing this one in the Victrola's place. Thank you VWestlife!
Wow, what a well researched video. Gosh, you actually spent sooooo much time to get rid of common myths associated with turntables. I have a Pioneer one, came with the Hi-Fi (British) system. I'll dig it out now.
Dude I love your channel, you are always so calm and rational that even when you make videos with no personal interest for me I still like to watch them.
Greetings from Mexico!
Turntables in the range of 200-300$ aren't bad at all.
The AT-LP120 falls in that category, and is quite the performer. It's one of the better Hanpin-made SL-1200 knock-offs.
MegaBojan1993 Orbit basic for $179, is the best deal.
The Orbit is a decent basic turntable made in Boston, MA. But it omits some refinements even these inexpensive Hanpins have. Namely, no anti-skate, and for that price, no built in preamp/equalizer or tonearm cueing. The Orbit also uses a MDF platter, and an AC synchronous motor with no speed feedback. Speed changes are accomplished manually by physically changing the belt's position on the motor capstan. However, you can upgrade the cartridge to an Ortofon OM series, and get some seriously decent sound from this inexpensive Beantown spinner.
They recently redesigned their tonearm and it now includes antiskating. The previous tonearm did have some moderate antiskating because of the inherent tension in the tonearm wires. Overall I think you get more performance for your money with the Orbit, and it has a very nice upgrade path.
Vinylengine BMRR? That you?
I haven't looked at the revised version of the Orbit arm. I'll have to give them a call, maybe start carrying them in my shop.
I don't see why these tables would have a problem with vinyl skipping given the modest 3.5g tracking force. I have a cartridge that recommends 1.5g of tracking force, and even that doesn't skip unless something is seriously wrong with the record!
I'm actually surprised the wow/flutter rating on the AT-LP120 is 0.2%, the whole point of direct drive was to increase stability (the SL-1900 is rated at 0.03% WRMS, -70dB rumble).
Also, audiophiles are never satisfied, hence the existence of things like the 700+lb Clearaudio Statement turntable that sells for a "bargain" $170,000.... and that doesn't include the recommended $15,000 Goldfinger Statement cartridge or the equally expensive pre-amp, amp, and speakers. At that rate, you might as well hire people for live performances, it likely sounds just as good ;). Heck, it might even be cheaper!
As to the the wow & flutter rating - I was kind of surprised too that it's rated as high as it is. But then I realized that as a low priced model they had to cut some corners to stay competitive, although, I don't really see why it had to be THAT high. I think they could have easily had it at, say, 0.08% - 0.1% at the same price.
A flaw in the AT-LP120's design is that the quartz lock only checks and adjusts the speed once per rotation. That causes a problem called "cogging" where the speed constantly speeds up and slows down slightly, which contributed to its unusually high wow & flutter rating for a direct-drive turntable.
I wouldn't call it a flaw, per se. It's more a design compromise. But only once per rotation? You've got to have 3 hall sensors to detect direction, which this table does. And that's going to generate a signal that gets compared to the internal clock from the quartz crystal in an integrator chip. The integrator chip (at least in most designs) adjusts a reference voltage sent to the motor driver chip that sets the drive speed. Old school quartz lock tables check every 5-6 degrees of rotation, which is why they score W&F numbers that get down to the minimum the test equipment can detect.
I started out with an LP60. Since then, I've upgraded to much better equipment, but I still tell people who are getting into records to start with the LP60. It was a great little turntable for the money. I feel it's the best model for a newcomer to experience what makes vinyl so alluring without breaking the bank.
Is there another model you would suggest by now at the same price range?
I've been using Turntables for decades. I have learn more in 20 minutes about turntables features and mechanism than in my previous 40 years!
I have a AT-LP60 and I love it to bits. I always wanted a record player to play my parents records but the information and choices are pretty overwhelming for a beginner. The guy at a Best Buy near me showed me the record player and said trust me and don’t listen to the online forums. I did a little more research and went with it. I’m so happy with it and everything about it is so easy and makes me want to expand on my collection and hobby for playing records.
people on the forums didnt test if they have anti skating because that would mean that they would find out that they were wrong and as we know, people on forums dont like that at all, they're right all the time 🙄🙄🙄
I love the sound of small scratches on vinyl. I know some reddit audiophiles would go absolutly crazy over it. 🙄
Isn't that part of the appeal? If you want clean sound you want digital.
I like my AT LP60. One criticism that I think is fair is that the build quality isn’t the best, but it isn’t total crap either. It’s mostly made of light plastic and the buttons do feel flimsy and like they’d break pretty easily, but having said that, I’ve had it for three years and have used it pretty regularly, and so far I have had nothing fail.
This has been super helpful in my tough decision making venture of finding a good starter record player. Vwestlife, my hats off to you and your devotion to inform the people on the truth.
The LP60 is definitely not as bad as Crosley, it's a little more 'low-end', but it's a good beginner's turntable. i'm an audiophile, but not a dickhead that shits on anyone that can't afford to spend 500 to 1000 dollars on a Pro-Ject or Technics turntable. People have budgets and these are good turntables
Have you ever played with one? I don't shit on anyone's equipment either, but the LP60 is impossibly cheap if you didn't know turntables you might think it was a prop for a movie set or something. If you subtract the amount that went into all the auto features, how much really went in to playback? I mean, feel the platter, look at the tonearm, people do have budgets but that certainly doesn't make this a "good turntable" by any stretch of my imagination.
This is for someone who doesn't care about fidelity and just wants to play records because they like the nostalgia. That people like that exist doesn't matter, it's great there's a dirt cheap turntable they can buy, still doesn't make it good and doesn't make anyone a dickhead for pointing that out.
Esteban Burke what's wrong with the platter and tone arm?
Like I said, feel one...now feel the platter from a Rega entry level Planar 1. Turntables components need to have mass and be inert, the LP60 platter is like a plastic frisbee compared to decent entry level tables.
Esteban Burke for a $100, it is a good turntable. I’ve had one for 4 years, haven’t even changed the stylus, still sounds great. Plays a hair fast at times but it’s not noticeable outside of direct comparison of the song to itself. Tone arm and platter are fine, they do their job, not like you’re gonna be banging the thing around.
Nicely done video! Great demonstrations to defend the points you make. I was pleased to see the strobe and pitch adjustment on the Pioneer. I had a Sony PS-LX250H that didn't have this feature and played noticeably fast. I recently replaced it with a Technics SL-BD22, which has it and two other features I found important: 1) A ground wire (the Sony was supposed to be self-grounding but produced a distracting hum between tracks even at relatively lower volume) and 2) A tone arm lock. I grew up in the 70s when vinyl was pretty much the only available retail music format (please don't remind me of 8 tracks). I got away from records beginning around 1990 with the explosion of CD popularity. And, honestly, the CD is a superior *storage* device. But I've recently renewed my interest in vinyl. I'll admit that nostalgia plays a part in my rekindled appreciation of vinyl. Some music sounds (perhaps subjectively) crisper on vinyl, some not so much. There's just something - maybe intangible, maybe personal, whatever - about albums; the covers (especially a gatefold), the artwork and liner notes, etc. seem to make for a somewhat fuller experience.
Thanks for sharing this video. I bought an LP60 a few months back and noticed it was running a bit fast. Found the adjustment screws and got it dialed in perfectly! This is a great turntable, I highly recommend it.
I'm so glad I bought an LP-60. Having previously owned a Steepletone record player with tinny speakers, this is a massive improvement!
I came across this while looking for a review on the Pioneer PL-990 that I am considering for my daughter who is getting into vinyl. What a great video: explanation of terminology, testing and empirical data presentation. I knew I wasn't going to buy a higher end turn table for her, just something to listen to her albums on a few times a week and this gives me a lot of confidence in either unit, but as stated the Pioneer has some speed adjustment so I'm happy with that. Thanks again, this is a great video!
Been saying for YEARS that the AT-LP-60 is the best record player I'd consider for the price. Honestly, it's what I play my LPs on, and with a really good pair of speakers there's nothing wrong with it!
As soon as I heard people saying anything with a strong bassline or drums was skipping I got really scared and looked over at my Bleach record. I’m thinking of getting an AT-LP60X and this really helped, so thank you :)
I have that same pioneer turntable. I really like it and use it pretty often with new and old vinyl. Plays very well and sounds good to me
The Audio Technice lp60 is a great player, never skipped once, speed is perfect, you wont go wrong with it. Sound is great through my Sony setup. This is a great informative review, probably the best out there .
Thanks for the review. I bought a new Pioneer PL-99O on June 3rd, 2018 and it is an awesome turntable in a great price range too. I appreciate your taking the time and having the suggestion for others to choose.
Man, I'm so glad I watched this video. I have been listening to my cheap Aiwa turntable play records too fast for so long without realizing how easily I could adjust the speed. Thank you!
After much deliberation about what turntable to go for, or whether to even get into Vinyl at all, I've just bought and set up an AT LP 60 after watching this video and enjoying my first foray in records and I'm loving it!
So simple to get started and sounds great even with a modest older amp/speakers. I can always work my way up to something
More sophisticated later, but this is plenty good enough, and cheap!
Thanks again
Maannn it's so nice to listen to someone who knows what their talking about 5*
Extremely well done demo and review. Logical, sequentially intuitive, and clearly explained at every step. Great work! Thanks for posting.
I review your review and give it 5\5!
Excellent video. You obviously put a good amount of time, money and thought into it and it shows. Thanks.
Many thanks for doing this presentation! I am currently in the market for a turntable and do NOT have a lot of $$$ . This helped me immensely in finding one I can afford. Thank you!
Patrick
Just got the audio technica. I'm so pleased with it I'm lost for words!!
I would agree with pretty much everything in your video and it is refreshing to see someone who doesn’t just repeats what they hear/read somewhere. You do the tests and show those audio-fools to be wrong.
To make it easier for beginners, I would like to add this:
• 90% of the sound quality is the cartridge.
• The Audio Technica cartridge used with these cheap TT’s is a fairly nice sounding good-value-for-money cartridge. Unless people own an audio setup costing many thousands, this cartridge is unlikely to hold the rest of the system back - but in this case they would be unlikely to buy those bottom end TT’s anyway.
• In the old days, a new TT had to be set up. Setup (adjusting counter-weight, anti-skate and sometimes even installing/aligning the cartridge) requires skills not everybody has. When those new cheap TT’s do not require setup, this is an advantage for people new to vinyl.
• If someone who starts with those entry level TT’s falls in love with vinyl and wants better sound or features, I would recommending selling the cheap TT and upgrade to a better. These cheapo are not meant to be upgraded.
After watching the anti-skating segment I want someone to do a record pressing where the record looks like a LaserDisc. Good work on this video. I love when people actually investigate things to get to the truth.
Sounds like Audiophiles are just as bad as some of us guitar nuts - insecure about purchasing a $3000 Bubinga Hand-Made Strat while I go out and do the gig on a $300 Squier and get the same result, lol.
I was impressed with how well that thing handled the super warped Elton John 45 - I had a Loverboy album less warped and messed up than that and I eventually junked it because I just could not get it to play all the way through on the junky GPX I had in high school.
The headphone side of audophiles are actually getting better though, since the market is filled with high quality but affordable headphones. People can have solid sound from Sony MDR-V6 that can survive a decade no problem, and it only cost $60-$100! Right now the community is fighting the rise of shitty overpriced headphones like Beats by introducing lots of affordable but better headphones.
creepingnet too true about the Squiers.
Interestingly enough, bassist community have gone much more down to the ground over the last 15 years. Cheap basses get universal respect now
Audio-Technica LP60: *is in the thumbnail*
me: *heavy breathing*
Same ✋😔🧨💥‼️
same here. 🥴
Me too!!! hahaha
Im glad to have found this video haha. I have used and owned a Presidian turntable since I was like 13 years old. I finally got it out of storage yesterday and had a long awaited reunion with it. To me its always worked just fine and sounded good. Last night whilst browsing vinyl videos, I saw enough videos recommending 200 dollar turntables, that it made me feel like maybe my turntable is inadequate haha. It does have its issues, but it makes me happy. Thats all that matters
Thank you. Learned a lot. How to measure tracking force on those types of turntables correctly for instance. That they have anti-skating surprised me really and that even the audio technica has a speed control is great to know. This supports my opinion, that the audio technica is one of - if not *the* - best entry level turntable money can buy. If someone tries to argue about, I will send him to this video.
Thank you so much for making this video. I'm planning on buying an Audio-Technica AT-LP60 soon, because It's the best player I can get on a tight budget. I wasn't sure if it was good, and worth my money, and all these tests you've run have proven that it's just the one I need. Thanks!
I got Dual CS 515 for $15 from a Salvation Army. I cleaned and adjusted it a bit but it worked fine out the door. It's specs aren't too bad wow and flutter are only .08% and has a tracking force of 1.3 grams (using the method in the video to test). It currently has the Ortofon DN 165E it came with which still had its protective cap. It's frequency response is okay at 10-25,000 Hz but that is a bit better than the 20-20,000 Hz of the AT3600 shown. Again for $15 it's great. So while I think these machines shown in the video are actually decent value if you are on budget you should also consider the local thrift store. You might not only find something decent but superior at a lower cost. Just make sure you know what you're getting before you buy. Keep a reference like Vinyl Engine ready, give it a good look over, and plug it in to be sure it powers on as it should.
Kendall Tawes Definitely check the thrift stores. One of my local thrift store Savers even offers a one week return policy on electronics. I got a twelve year old Sony 5 disc cd player for twenty bucks with remote, worked fine, just needed lightly cleaned up a bit.
This is like a really kind "Fuck You" to all the people who think these turntables are as bad as a crosley.
Saying it's not as bad as a cheap turntable with a ten inch platter and ceramic phono cartridge is a pretty low bar. "Hey, my Kia is better than a Yugo!"
Excellent review of the entry level tables. You make some excellent points. I would not recommend upgrading the stylus to anything "sharper" than a .4 X .7 elliptical. 3.5g VTF is very high, by modern standards. Installing a .3 X .7 will sound much more detailed, until it rapidly wears the grooves and the stylus itself due to the much smaller groove contact patch. These turntables come with a conical stylus for a couple of reasons. The first is cost. The second is record wear.
These turntables are built to a price point, and as such they have to focus their available construction budget on what makes the most sense. They offer convenience features such as tonearm automation and a built in riaa preamp/equalizer. The cartridge and stock stylus' compliance are a decent match to the tonearm's effective mass, and should keep resonance down around 10Hz. The turntable motor's servo electronics are not all that great. They don't correct for dynamic stylus drag very well (unlike your Technics), but not much worse than competitors from the audiophile brands using AC synchronous motors. Vibration isolation is an afterthought on these basic turntables. Motor noise can be clearly audible (and picked up by the cartrdige), too, on well seasoned units.
Are they terrible, no. Are they great, no. They're entry level. Use one for a year or two, and upgrade when you have the interest and funds.
Jeez...that Daniel 45. I wouldn't even try to play it on one of my SL-1200s. Even the cheap cartridges I run are too expensive to subject to that kind of abuse.
3.5 grams is still feather-light compared to the 5 to 6 grams that the Crosley-style record players track at!
I agree. The 3.5g VTF of the AT-3600 cartridge is a significant improvement above the Chuo-Densi ceramic cart that requires 5+. However, when you get into the truly high performance MM cartridges and styli, such as carts sporting MicroRidge, MicroLine, Fine LIne, Shibata, etc, you'll notice that they track more around 1.25 to 1.75g VTF, and groove wear is not much of a factor any more. The suspension is much more compliant, which allows the stylus to trace the groove much more faithfully and pull mind blowing amounts of detail from the grooves. But at that point, your're spending more on a cartridge than you've probably spent on turntables, styli, belts, etc.
It's not just the VTF that matters in a cartridge, its the tracking resistance. The weight of what is attached to the other end of the cantilever itself matters a lot. This is the entire premise behind moving coil cartridges, because the moving coil itself is so lightweight they track like no other due to less resistance and thus wear the vinyl considerably less than even comparable moving magnets. This is also why they have a very good bass response. Most people have never heard a MC cartridge before.
Adding onto what I said, its not just the 5 grams of VTF of a ceramic cartridge that kills vinyl, its basically because the cantilever is directly attached to a piece of piezoelectric material with very little dampening, very high resistance to movement.
@spikester...Yes. There are a number of factors that go in to how well a particular cartridge tracks the grooves and tracking force is just one of the factors. A low output MC cartridge tracks grooves extremely faithfully because of lower effective tip mass (what you were referring to) and less vibrational energy is being converted to electrical energy. The cartridge is a generator. Generating more electrical output energy takes more energy from from the vibrating stylus and cantilever assembly, making it resist changing velocity more than a low output cartridge.
Extremely informative video! I was looking at both of these for my workshop and now I'm more confident to buy the Pioneer after listening to your reviews. Thank you!
This video gave me confidence in the Sony PS-LX300USB I bought and refurbished for $40. I have a 70 year old 10” LP, and it now sounds like I have a barbershop quartet in the room with me.
I can tell a lot of time and energy went into this video, well done. Good information.
Awesome video. Snobbery is definitely in every hobby (talking as a photographer here hahah). Really glad you did your research and put a lot of these misconceptions to bed. Not everyone has thousands of dollars to drop for their music setup, so this was a very helpful and non-biased video! Thank you x
had that problem with my Bee Gee's Greatest Hits (played too fast), did that adjustment and now it work like a charm. thanks buddy.
I have the SONY one without USB and I know it's not much of a turntable, but I'm pretty happy with it. One thing I can confirm - it does NOT skip on modern vinyl. It skipped on me only once (not counting scratched vinyl) on a second hand album which was an unusually thin vinyl and probably saw some spinning in its time.
Thank you for doing this video, now I know I'm not missing important features just because I don't have full controll on them. I'd love to have more advanced machine in the future which matches better my system, but I think I'm OK for the time being.
This was the perfect video for me. I have an AT LP-60 and my faith has been restored in it! I may look at getting a different stylus and see if that’s a cheap upgrade worth doing! Thank you for the thorough review and explanations!