21:57 that's the way I feel at the Sovereign Grace church I want to join. The people on the mics are a distraction and grieve my soul and worship (I love them in Christ ofcourse and have a great Fellowship with them) but the fact is they're right in front of you; they're singing louder than you cuz they're on the mic; and their voice is not Unified with the assembly cuz they're on the mic! The church I was at prior sounded SOOOOOOOOOO much more beautiful when it was just the piano and the One Voice of The Body of Christ singing! 95% of them couldn't carry a tune of they sang solo: But when we sing as One!!!! WOW Such beauty!!! No one singer who had a better voice wasn't on a mic with the advantage.
23:24 - key moment. That question is absolutely fundamental and when I think about my answer... inexpressible joy on me looks like silence and tears streaming down my face. Thank you, Bob, for that insight. I never thought of it that way.
Thank you, thank you, thank you for this! I am a former (introverted) praise and worship leader out of the charismatic movement and so needed the tension between where I am now theologically and where I have been to be addressed. I always struggled to have to lead in an outward louder (commanding) style that wasn’t really “me.” I can’t wait to hear more of what you all have to say on the subject of worship!
Thank you I’m starting Togo to sovereign grace church coming out of cessation movement, and even before Penecostal encourage my movement growing up. I am a worship leader playing instruments. This is helpful thank you. God bless you.
More than a blessing!!! I was raised in the more stoic (Conservative Baptist) tradition so always had a sense of restraint while singing songs of praise. But after the Lord saved me, I could not keep my body or hands still when singing about our glorious and gracious God and what He has done for me! Granted, I don't want to be a distraction in my baptist-reformed style church and can only think of one couple who freely express their praise by uplifted hands, so I'm still somewhat restrained. Thanks to the four men in this video who "gave me permission" to worship as the words dictate while yet being aware that some might resist freedom of expression. Not sure how to find that middle ground, but definitely want to consider Who we worship above how I might look to others.
Thank you dear Pastor Costi for such topics and videos there is so much clarification...May our LORD Jesus bless you and other pastors engaged with the wisdom needed...Amen
Thank you gentlemen! As a former charismatic worship leader, I now by God's grace, lead at a very small community church. It's been a great challenge. Looking forward to these teachings!
Thank you for this. How does this fit with the regulative principle of worship? Can you flesh that out a little? Also, how can “worship pastors” pastor their worship teams? How is practice structured, devotions, prayer time, etc.?
10:54 But it does not say " I will be on a mic and be the most important looking worshipper singing slightly louder than you with my advantage of amplification! I absolutely 💯 agree that we should not be stoic!
We have to also look at it from a technical perspective. Music naturally create an emotional response. If you hear a composition or an arrangement that has no emotional weak links, you get a lot of what we see. Many underestimate how powerful chords and cadences are. The emotions created from music create other emotions on top of the first set. I think people are overthinking this subject. They either swing to one extreme or the other: too wild or dead as a corpse. God gave emotions for a reason, to fight them is almost senseless. Again, there is a fine line between emotionalism and true heart felt worship. The reformed stoic is walking contradiction, to profess Christ and be as dead as a corpse looks like dead faith to me but that is just my opinion. Most, not all are full of head knowledge which is great but that is it, everything else is superficial (0 intimacy with our Lord). Overall, just praise God and give him what he deserves. We have eternal life, to not be joyful and thankful to him for what he has done and continues to do is a crime of note. To raise your hands to secular artists and hold off in church is just gross. There is a balance. Praise our Lord for he deserves much more than what we offer.
33:58 Answer! Dont have the "thems" as the center of attention; on mics singing lounder (which for the most part will not empower members to sing as loud as they might if it was congregational singing), and sing as One Body, As One Voice, Unified, to the One True and Living God!!! Thats a Biblical Theme we read in the pages of Scriptures!!!!!!!
40:33 Then lets Model the way we see singing in Revelation and sing together as One. I don't see in Rev 4:8-11 them saying " Get The Worship leader on the mic to lead us to sing!" No....they sang together as One.....singing as a Non-Stoic Congregation Models the Biblical doctrines of Oneness & Unity..Not the people with better voices being on a Mic singing against me louder. I feel like I am competing with that. At the previous church I wasn't! We Modeled Oneness and believe it or not we did raise hands and shouted in Praise!!!
Around 44:30 when he mentions songs are too hard, difficult, etc…I don’t agree with that statement because it’s a blanket opinion of all churches when it’s not true. I’m a musician myself and both musicians and congregation has complained that songs are too basic, lack color, sometimes feel monotone. The lyrics are not theological sound, why is this dumbed down from the original, etc. Many people in congregation I’ve talked to grew up on many great songs and performers and expect church to give its best to the Lord but feel it’s theology is weak and songs are boring because they don’t get deep into God’s Word. I’m not saying we should sing like an opera or Michael Jackson but we also shouldn’t think the congregation is dumb or untalented either. We would introduce one new song slowly and over a month people would sing it with ease. It’s not that hard and stop with the plain chords and overly simple songs. It’s ok to add some more to it as long as it not taking away from worship.
Many churches have symphonies, choirs and concertos and people sing to it. Throwing a 9, 11, 13 chord on guitar not going to hurt. People go to secular concerts of 5,000-50,000 people and sing to songs not in their pitch and are sometimes complicated or fast. Again don’t put congregation down as stupid. I know he didn’t say stupid but that is the implication and I know from conversations with worship ministers they are implying that congregation is either stupid, untalented, cannot understand music, etc. worship ministers forget people grew up with choir, jazz band, marching band, high school symphony and concert bands, secular music, college bands even like in Ohio is big in Ohio State Marching band etc. people are more fluent and educated than worship ministers think but worship ministers I’ve talked to always say things like “it needs to be simple so they can sing along,” or “ people cannot understand complex songs,” and so on but it’s wrong. Older church music had more to it than today. Hymnals with more than one sentence but “we can’t sing more than two sentences because the congregation will lose interest.”
Another thing is, if the church making their own songs but not releasing it to congregation to listen to and learn? I’ve seen that happen to. One church made new songs every week but the congregation didn’t know the songs. Never played the same song more than twice sometimes
2:39 Why do singers have to be on Mics? Are they more important? Why not just have someone facilitate with an instrument or instruments and let the church be the one voice! Congregation worship! It's more reflective of all the Biblical Oneness and Unity reference in the Bible! Having singers on mics with don't make members sing as empowered as they can.
Unfortunately some people in the congregation like to lead or sing in a different way than the song which causes issues for others so the singers act like a leader or example. My previous church had one man that intentionally sing 1/2 beat or one whole beat off. I don’t know why and no one asked him to change. Definitely caused issues but the singers was on mics so people could follow them instead. Plus not every church can have talented musicians to lead either. It’s been on decline for years
Guess I'm one of those 'stoics' they seem to mock - I'm struggling with this content; especially in the context of "corporate worship", but have decided to continue to watch. I do want to learn, but also understand my ONLY source of truth is the HOLY Word of God - not man.
Great discussion. Love Sovereign Grace's music and their thoughtfulness on the subject.
38:58 Amen!!!
21:57 that's the way I feel at the Sovereign Grace church I want to join. The people on the mics are a distraction and grieve my soul and worship (I love them in Christ ofcourse and have a great Fellowship with them) but the fact is they're right in front of you; they're singing louder than you cuz they're on the mic; and their voice is not Unified with the assembly cuz they're on the mic! The church I was at prior sounded SOOOOOOOOOO much more beautiful when it was just the piano and the One Voice of The Body of Christ singing! 95% of them couldn't carry a tune of they sang solo: But when we sing as One!!!! WOW Such beauty!!! No one singer who had a better voice wasn't on a mic with the advantage.
23:24 - key moment. That question is absolutely fundamental and when I think about my answer... inexpressible joy on me looks like silence and tears streaming down my face.
Thank you, Bob, for that insight. I never thought of it that way.
Thank you, thank you, thank you for this! I am a former (introverted) praise and worship leader out of the charismatic movement and so needed the tension between where I am now theologically and where I have been to be addressed. I always struggled to have to lead in an outward louder (commanding) style that wasn’t really “me.” I can’t wait to hear more of what you all have to say on the subject of worship!
Thank you I’m starting Togo to sovereign grace church coming out of cessation movement, and even before Penecostal encourage my movement growing up. I am a worship leader playing instruments. This is helpful thank you. God bless you.
More than a blessing!!! I was raised in the more stoic (Conservative Baptist) tradition so always had a sense of restraint while singing songs of praise. But after the Lord saved me, I could not keep my body or hands still when singing about our glorious and gracious God and what He has done for me! Granted, I don't want to be a distraction in my baptist-reformed style church and can only think of one couple who freely express their praise by uplifted hands, so I'm still somewhat restrained. Thanks to the four men in this video who "gave me permission" to worship as the words dictate while yet being aware that some might resist freedom of expression. Not sure how to find that middle ground, but definitely want to consider Who we worship above how I might look to others.
Stand in the back while singing, sister! 😂
Joking aside, it is hard to contain ourselves when reminded in song about the love of our Savior 🙋🏻♀️🥹😊
♥Sovereign Grace music
Ya I saw them personally in Cebu, Philippines and blessed. To God alone be the glory!
This was so edifying to watch. Thank you brothers. God bless you.
Thank you dear Pastor Costi for such topics and videos there is so much clarification...May our LORD Jesus bless you and other pastors engaged with the wisdom needed...Amen
thank you costi very blessed by this content
Thank you!! 🙏🏽
Thank you gentlemen!
As a former charismatic worship leader, I now by God's grace, lead at a very small community church. It's been a great challenge. Looking forward to these teachings!
Thank you Brothers for making your time in this God Bless you all!!!
Side Note: Love the lightning and setups
Amazing video! Thank you so much for this video on worship
Glad you enjoyed it!
This is so timely for me! Thank you for posting this!
Ooohhhhh I’m so excited to listen to this!! Having left the charismatic movement, my husband and I have had all these questions!
Thank you for the vid! @AC
Thank you!
wow I needed this.
This was good. I am considering sharing this with my worship/singing team!
Thank you for this. How does this fit with the regulative principle of worship? Can you flesh that out a little? Also, how can “worship pastors” pastor their worship teams? How is practice structured, devotions, prayer time, etc.?
10:54 But it does not say " I will be on a mic and be the most important looking worshipper singing slightly louder than you with my advantage of amplification! I absolutely 💯 agree that we should not be stoic!
We have to also look at it from a technical perspective. Music naturally create an emotional response. If you hear a composition or an arrangement that has no emotional weak links, you get a lot of what we see. Many underestimate how powerful chords and cadences are. The emotions created from music create other emotions on top of the first set.
I think people are overthinking this subject. They either swing to one extreme or the other: too wild or dead as a corpse. God gave emotions for a reason, to fight them is almost senseless. Again, there is a fine line between emotionalism and true heart felt worship. The reformed stoic is walking contradiction, to profess Christ and be as dead as a corpse looks like dead faith to me but that is just my opinion. Most, not all are full of head knowledge which is great but that is it, everything else is superficial (0 intimacy with our Lord).
Overall, just praise God and give him what he deserves. We have eternal life, to not be joyful and thankful to him for what he has done and continues to do is a crime of note. To raise your hands to secular artists and hold off in church is just gross. There is a balance. Praise our Lord for he deserves much more than what we offer.
33:58 Answer! Dont have the "thems" as the center of attention; on mics singing lounder (which for the most part will not empower members to sing as loud as they might if it was congregational singing), and sing as One Body, As One Voice, Unified, to the One True and Living God!!! Thats a Biblical Theme we read in the pages of Scriptures!!!!!!!
Where can I find these guys music? I looked up Sovereign Grace Music, but it wasn’t them.
Spotify is one place
40:33 Then lets Model the way we see singing in Revelation and sing together as One. I don't see in Rev 4:8-11 them saying " Get The Worship leader on the mic to lead us to sing!" No....they sang together as One.....singing as a Non-Stoic Congregation Models the Biblical doctrines of Oneness & Unity..Not the people with better voices being on a Mic singing against me louder. I feel like I am competing with that. At the previous church I wasn't! We Modeled Oneness and believe it or not we did raise hands and shouted in Praise!!!
Around 44:30 when he mentions songs are too hard, difficult, etc…I don’t agree with that statement because it’s a blanket opinion of all churches when it’s not true. I’m a musician myself and both musicians and congregation has complained that songs are too basic, lack color, sometimes feel monotone. The lyrics are not theological sound, why is this dumbed down from the original, etc. Many people in congregation I’ve talked to grew up on many great songs and performers and expect church to give its best to the Lord but feel it’s theology is weak and songs are boring because they don’t get deep into God’s Word. I’m not saying we should sing like an opera or Michael Jackson but we also shouldn’t think the congregation is dumb or untalented either. We would introduce one new song slowly and over a month people would sing it with ease. It’s not that hard and stop with the plain chords and overly simple songs. It’s ok to add some more to it as long as it not taking away from worship.
Many churches have symphonies, choirs and concertos and people sing to it. Throwing a 9, 11, 13 chord on guitar not going to hurt.
People go to secular concerts of 5,000-50,000 people and sing to songs not in their pitch and are sometimes complicated or fast. Again don’t put congregation down as stupid.
I know he didn’t say stupid but that is the implication and I know from conversations with worship ministers they are implying that congregation is either stupid, untalented, cannot understand music, etc. worship ministers forget people grew up with choir, jazz band, marching band, high school symphony and concert bands, secular music, college bands even like in Ohio is big in Ohio State Marching band etc. people are more fluent and educated than worship ministers think but worship ministers I’ve talked to always say things like “it needs to be simple so they can sing along,” or “ people cannot understand complex songs,” and so on but it’s wrong. Older church music had more to it than today. Hymnals with more than one sentence but “we can’t sing more than two sentences because the congregation will lose interest.”
Another thing is, if the church making their own songs but not releasing it to congregation to listen to and learn? I’ve seen that happen to. One church made new songs every week but the congregation didn’t know the songs. Never played the same song more than twice sometimes
2:39 Why do singers have to be on Mics? Are they more important? Why not just have someone facilitate with an instrument or instruments and let the church be the one voice! Congregation worship! It's more reflective of all the Biblical Oneness and Unity reference in the Bible! Having singers on mics with don't make members sing as empowered as they can.
Unfortunately some people in the congregation like to lead or sing in a different way than the song which causes issues for others so the singers act like a leader or example. My previous church had one man that intentionally sing 1/2 beat or one whole beat off. I don’t know why and no one asked him to change. Definitely caused issues but the singers was on mics so people could follow them instead. Plus not every church can have talented musicians to lead either. It’s been on decline for years
Guess I'm one of those 'stoics' they seem to mock - I'm struggling with this content; especially in the context of "corporate worship", but have decided to continue to watch. I do want to learn, but also understand my ONLY source of truth is the HOLY Word of God - not man.