Wow, this video really struck a chord with me. I was a signed artist and singer-songwriter over 20 yrs ago and had success with a radio hit along with a publishing deal with one of the majors that some of my songs were used by multinational brands but left the industry due to a corporate career. I decided to release music again during the pandemic, this time as an independent artist and then soon found out that I had to be and do everything you mentioned in your video. I’m so glad to see you’ve made it your mission to address this area and teaching those who are really in the music for the love it. I’m doing this again because I really love the music (the true art and the process) and as you said in the beginning of the video, music has the potential to make a difference in someone’s life, this is why we do this :). So thank you!
Yes, I keep running the race and keep getting burned out. Shit is hard man. Not to start, but keep going with producing music, content, networking, creating visual art, asking for gigs, etc. etc...
@@soulofwaves Nice! Me too, as well as Adam Ivy, Tom Dupree III, and Andrew Southworth. I'm currently very good at producing a lot of quantity, but bad at the quality side. Where are you on this journey?
i kind of hate this video because the implication is that "you could be successful just being a producer before" or "that you didnt need to know how to market" but the truth is you always have needed multiple skills (marketing being one of them). like before social media people we're emailing blogs, cold calling radio stations, going to shows to network, handing out CDs after shows, playing countless gigs and touring on shoestring budgets etc. it's never been enough just to make music if you want to be the producer AND artist. yes the means in which you get there is different now (social media compared to older marketing practices) but this has always been a game of using multiple skills. and having good music only makes all of this easier. in a micro sense, yes things have changed (but they change all the time). but in a macro sense, nothing has changed. good music is still good music. there is no "downfall"
yeah the main difference is 10+ years ago u had to send demos to labels and self promotion wasn't really a good option, now you can self promote and not rely on labels anymore because tik tok exists and you can go viral overnight. It's pretty bizzare but that's how it is now, but nothing's really changed in terms of knowing multiple stuff except producing
A voice of reason here. Thank you. The way people consume music HAS changed, but being able to manage multiple things hasn't. In addition, I think getting someone to listen to you physically and you actually physically being in contact with people will always give you a more stable fanbase than tiktok.
Exactly, lots of labels were predatory, and radio stations and managers would gatekeep the whole industry. Nowadays, nearly anyone can become famous. How is that a bad thing? So what a few clowns who don't care about the art made it big. It's a much more open market these days.
Don’t forget you’re competing against people who have the financial means to use ghost producers,pay to get on a lineup, pre record their sets, have industry connections and an existing following. Basically someone is doing literally nothing yet they are where you want to be.
yeah, that is fucked up dude. Last year living in Portugal I got to see an underground culture of hidden parties and festivals where they keep it real about the music and the artists, and I am optimistic that there will always be scenes like this everywhere and they will grow bigger as mainstream festivals become social media hangouts. There is enough passionate people to drive forwards what is true and authentic and enough audience to attend, and even with the huge flow of posers and fakes on the mainstream landscape, the underground will prevail and thrive, just like it has always done. Nature balances itself
bigger joke then her is Mattn. trust me Mattn is the biggest joke ever. Getting on MAINSTAGE of tomorrowland because of her BF. Having precrecored sets. Getting ghost tracks. Man biggest joke ever@@officialdjdetox
I think mostly it’s an ego thing I gotta admit. There’s a huge gap between producing a whole ass song and think about melodies, how everything fits together, scales, … and “Hypetechno” producers taking an old acapella and use the same kick & bass samples, flip their hands in front of a camera and make millions of streams. Sometimes that’s what is taking the excitement
So, that’s one of the depressing things about it. Constantly comparing. And seeing people getting clout from using pre made midis, put close to zero effort into their craft but being good in doing cringy TikTok’s.. that’s really heartbreaking considering the years of learning music theory, exploring different genres, pitching your shitty songs and not getting anywhere close to their “fame” if I may say so. This is not supposed to be hate, but I think I’m not alone with that thought
Im in berlin making house music. So just go your own way. If you are chasing a trend by making mediocre remakes of other peoples records instead of making music you love you will never get to where you want to go
For me, it's just the evolution of how music in our industry is marketed. 10 years ago we discovered our now favourite artists through TH-cam. The likes of Hardwell and Martin Garrix blew up from their apollo and animals release respectively. And now we evolve. From the radio, to the TV, to TH-cam, and now to Tiktok/IG. It's just natural progression. We can't hate the game but rather, embrace and try to see how it can help us
Exactly. People complain about this new age, but truthfully. This is so so much easier than what the industry used to be like. You’re no longer begging for attention from managers. The audience chooses for you. If the audience likes you, you’re almost guaranteed to know the crowd will
@@AnakimMusic my art is photo and video so my life is a little different than yours. From the outside In that’s my two cents though! Last thing I’d want to do is beg someone just to listen to a few seconds of my work
Its so depressing man. When i started back in 2010 my dream was to be an artist, not a content creator. It feels like that dream is effectively dead in a sense.
Counter argument: what was your game plan if it wasn’t for social media? Door to door networking to try to get someone’s attention so they can book you? You could be an incredible artist but if no one knows you even exist then how do you plan to make a career in the first place?
@@austinconnmedia Sure social media was always a part of it, but it was secondary. Nowadays I see so many absolute garbage producers blow up because they make a bunch of tik toks and very cookie cutter music, and I see probably 3x as many literal musical geniuses get 0 traction bc they just make sick ass authentic art thats pushing boundaries.
@@andrewmaclean9810 you gotta find balance somewhere. If you want to create just to create then go ahead but if you’re the person who wants to make their living off of creativity the balance has to be found. Truthfully it’s a non negotiable in any creative industry. If you don’t learn to speak for yourself or give people a reason to start listening then your art is going to be made just for you. Also, the cookie cutter creative can fall off in just a few months cause they never made anything better. Or they could carry their whole career because they’re just good at making people pay attention. Life plays out in weird ways and as frustrating as it can be sometimes I have to give those who find new ways to make themselves appear unique props. That’s half of their talent there
This is so true. Just saw a someone release a ghosted track on one of the worlds biggest record labels, pump 10K into a NYC Time square advertisement, and then promo it out like they’ve achieved that. All while the song it self has no stream numbers. This is really getting ridiculous.
Back in the tape days, there were three primary functions of a producer: 1) control of the recording budget for the record company. This involve selecting studio, engineers, etc. 2) selection of songs and arrangements. 3). Translating the aesthetic vision of the artist into a commercially viable product for the record label.
This is so deep it touched my soul. I been making music since I was a child and I am now an adult with zero benefit from making music except that passion and love that kept me going. I am officially good enough to publicly release my music and I found my focus which will be beat making and some song writing. And of course mixing🎉❤
It’s always been a business that’s why it’s called the music industry. Also now with social media artists have the ability to promote themselves without being tied to a shitty contract.
It's up to us as listeners, music lovers and djs to support the music & producers that care to dig a bit deeper and deliver genuine art vs. a product. The power is still with the people and the artists as *true art* can never be touched, tainted or watered down in my opinion. You just have to filter through a lot of BS now, but it's there. And always will be.
Personally I think the shift is great. Back in the day networking and getting a manager was essential. Now if you make a decent drop or nice hook, upload the sound to TikTok and if it’s good it will take you to getting shows. It’s easier than ever to show your skills, I think it’s levelled the playing field.
The problem is that as true music makers we didn't protect what we built throughout the years. We let the hunger for popularity overcome the hunger for actually making quality music. Not to mention the fact that now any influencer who has a following feels like they're qualified to make "Music".
I love making tunes. Have been playing multiple instruments for over a decade. I record and slightly master/mix them but don’t even share on the inter webs. It just for me and friends family. It’s great not using social media and not worrying about getting noticed. I jam out to myself all the time ! Sounds conceited I know but I make music that’s fun and enjoyable mostly. Don’t care really to much about opinions because you know the old saying. (everybody has one)
Some great points mate. For anyone just starting out, know that measurement of your passion for music has absolutely nothing to do with whether this becomes a career or not. You 100% do not need to be on any big label or play any big festival etc to be just as passionate as anyone else and enjoy music your entire life. Have a great journey all 🤙🏽😎🕺🖤
Hit the nail on the head with the tutorial videos. Always seeing some kid less than a year in posting something and I'm like oh buddy you're not even close to having a full understanding. Most of the time its them not understanding the dileanation between artistic choice and technical choice.
There has never been a better time to advertise ourselves, but at the same time, it's almost impossible to make a ripple in the ocean of social media without luck. I started DJing 3 years ago at the age of 30, and I have really struggled in regards social media. Where I live the DJ scene is pretty dead, and so I have to try and turn to the internet for any kind of fanbase, which is almost impossible for someone like myself, whose close friends have 0 interest in DJing and Music production. So now I have to just hope some sort of algorithm picks up anything I do for a few views/listens. I am by no means a master at the craft, but I am certainly not bad, but It does feel frustrating that I need some random computer code and the swing of fads and odd viral moments to achieve any moments of success, especially if I have worked hard on something, but I as long as I stay consistent and keep going, hopefully it will be all worth it. You're videos are great man. Always hit nail on the head.
Omg I am in the same boat as you. I have some following on SoundCloud and a tiny TH-cam fan base but I can’t seem to dive into the tiktok instagram Facebook world.. it’s so hard because making good music isn’t enough. I also started when I was 30 I’m about to be 33 🎉
Love everything from start to end man! I am producing music and hitting my head many times, I have been doing it for over 10 years, I have been playing instruments and I have been in love with DnB, I am always on the go and even if I still have to get my fans I still feel love when I sit and I start making music on my DAW. Anyway man yeah love for everything you just said!
I would rather learn how to make content and market on my own stuff rather than depend on a select few gatekeeping labels and radio stations that get to decide what “good music” is and take all your money with 360 deals. We can now go directly to the fans and have more power than artists have ever had in the history of the music business
Honestly I sometimes thinking about to quit music, because it's so exhausting. It feels for me music is secondary and its more important which level you have on social media etc. I personally don’t like social media to use that much, but its really unfair that someone who releases music is not getting any reputation, bookings and respect. However, if a girl djs with sync, is sexy dressed and maybe plays your music she’s getting the reputation. That’s frustrates me and makes me think if it’s worth spending my time on it.
Back in the day, I wanted to pursue music production as a career. However, about six years ago, I began to realize the points discussed in this video. Don’t get me wrong, I still love music; it’s just a hobby now, and I find myself much happier for it. Not gonna lie, it’s disheartening to witness the current state of creativity across various media forms.
I'm a producer and sometimes I doubt to make my "promos" but then I remember "Attract success don't seek" and I've been increasing my numbers without posting on social, juat uploading and people started to notice me
There I was 2002 waiting next to my radio until it was 2am … the electronic radio station finally turned on for a 2 hour set… I hit record on the tape to capture it … that’s how i found my EDM artists back in the day haha.. the good ole days !
I don’t understand why this dude is acting like marketing and putting yourself out there on social media is a bad thing. Social media has enabled tons of artists and producers to have a career in the music industry who probably wouldn’t have otherwise. Just look at the entire SoundCloud Rap scene of the late 2010’s. It was an entire scene of teenagers just throwing their music up online and gaining massive success and popularity without having to sign with a major label or getting “played on the radio”. Social media is a beautiful thing that has enabled creators and artists to have thriving while being able to remain completely independent.
As a huge Future Riddim and EDM fan, I’ve been making EDM music for 8 years but only started releasing a year or two ago. I suck at the social media and i just dont care for it. I hate the whole thing about trendy marketing schemes like « if you like « x » and « x » you’ll like my music » and all that kind of attention hunting. I always wanted to make music with a huge ambitious concept behind it. For instance, i wanna make a musical-novel that tells a story in each album. But social media won’t want that for the most part. They’ll want club bangers or trendy music that is way more popular. And thats fine. But I don’t really see my page and idea ever reaching the masses. Since making music and listening to EDM is my biggest passion in life, i want to keep it that way. So i wont bother with huge branding or even making tons of money with it. I already have a solid career path so music will remain about passion and not selling out. Im writing this just so that people can relate to me. Being a niche artist is a beautiful thing. Don’t let fame be the main focus. Enjoy the journey🙌🏼
So let's sum it up, to be a successful clubmusic producer/artist/writer/maker today you need to: be good at writing a good song with all this entails, you have to be able to mix it all the way all by yourself knowing all the tricks to get the mix up to the industry standard and lastly you have to be good at social media to be able to promote yourself, by yourself..... kinda takes the fun and love out of the whole thing..... music it seems is the only artform that makes the artist compete to get success, I don't see painters or sculptors having to do that. How/why has it come to this?
You can always outsource what you don't know how to do, or don't want to do. Think like an entrepreneur and build a multi-disciplinary team: you need a clear vision and people who compliment your skills to achieve it. The ones trying to do everything by themselves, will be the ones burned-out first and outperformed by teams.
You summed it up quite nicely. True artists are all about the creative flow. Once the ego gets caught up in it and invents new motivations it’s the downfall. I predict we will see a reignited appreciation for human art after the initial mindblowing progression of ai and perhaps quantum computing.
I kind of wish I started making music when I was a lot younger, but I never really considered back then. Now I’m glad to have picked it up and regardless of the result I get I will keep making music.
There's something to be said for the importance of tastemakers and how it's becoming a lost art. These days we might deride them as "gatekeepers" but they were actually good at what they did and it shows in how much the quality of music has dropped now that discovery is crowdsourced.
Didn't know Homelander provided music advice 😄 but fr, it's daunting how many things you have to take into consideration, something as simple as a reel posted at the wrong hour can decide if you get those views or not...
Good. Too many of the "super producers" became gatekeepers and/or are protected by gatekeepers. Too many of them stole our ideas by having stealing our sounds and not giving us credit. I personally had producers like Polow Da Don blatantly steal some of my stuff that I posted online. I tell all upcoming producers to find an artist(s) they believe in and work with them. Don't worry about trying to link up with famous singers and rappers. Master your equipment and musicianship. Try to become hybrid by investing in both analog and software based instruments and means of recording. Of course network and have an open mind to what some of the well known producers teach. And always be humble. Big name producers like Nate Danjahandz, Hit Boy and Zaytoven are great examples of people who have made countless hits, yet remain humble and love to share knowledge on online platforms, and in person. Also, many big name producers become complacent. Everyone should have the passion of creating like Prince did, if you want to be successful long-term on a large scale.... But it is also ok to not be so every day driven if you have a passion for music, while choosing to create every now and then. Everyone is different. Dont try to become famous by creating a facade personality or type of production. Hell, dont even try tonbecome famous at all. Let your work speak for itself. Feelnfree to promote yourself. But not at the hands of becoming famous; yet for thebreasons of passion and wanting to be respected bybyour peers while teaching others.
that's great ! society continue to evolve. Allowing new one to come on top. i dont think with just radio and mtv 20 years ago Amapiano will be that popular.. just an example..
another big thing is the business, networking and marketing takes away time from mastering the craft which is why most the music will end up mediocre rather then profound. We have to adapt but make sure you focus on the music.
This was a great video essay. Dark but inspiring. To me, This is the downfall of the “producer” as we used to conceptualize it. The world is always changing, either adapt or get left behind. Do not use these new “jobs” as an excuse to not make it. We’re provided with new opportunities and we can build a following like no other independently. There’s so much money out there and a multitude of ways to get it, if you’re hungry enough.
If you hate the idea of the social media aspect, just pay someone to do the things you hate. That's advice I heard somewhere and it sounded like good advice to me.
@@nacnudselrahc420 in my opinion, jus film some short form content that takes about 10mins to film. Do it one day where you film 3-5 videos then you have that for the week or two depending on your uploading schedule
As I'm just starting pursuing a career in music production, I thought a lot about this subject and I realized that the most important thing for me is to be able to fulfill my existence and create music in the same quality as the ones I hear. Everything else simply doesn't matter. If we loose the ability to make art that express the human inside of us, it will then be the beginning of our extinction.
I feel you man! Im a producer producer for years, and thought a breakthrough wasn’t in the cards for me anymore….Got booked for Tomorrowland yesterday…
Great video. Not sure if my comment will be seen, but I'll paste it anyways in case it helps. Tiktok and IG are crucial, and I spent way too much of my early career ignoring them. I got lucky and had a song go viral on Tiktok and it basically doubled my listeners overnight. BUT here's the rub: It's more or less random (that song had been out for 3 years before it went viral), it's hard to replicate, and its hard to create real fans from these social platforms vs just a casual listener who saved one of your songs. The absolute hardest pill to swallow as an artist is that being good at music doesn't make you good at social media. I have been an elite level producer for years, but I am just very average at social media, and my modest but healthy fanbase reflects that. So, the hard truth? 90% of music producers need to branch out beyond their artist project. That's what I've started doing, and the happy news is that there's tons of opportunity in these other fields like composing, ad music, etc. and in these fields, social media matters less than musical talent.
I wish this all went more hand in hand. Like people should have a good social media following BECASUE of their music not because they look hot, or are funny, or good at video editing. I don't mind media to help connect to your community. But I wish we could just make music and do a simple post or 2. ....not like 50 peices of content and stragegy per song.
I feel like there are loads of positive aspects to the development of social media though. Imagine how many people who wanted to make music back in the days but couldn’t record it or get listeners. Even though you need marketing skills, the possibilities are there🙏🏽
The good news is if you lock everything in and keep going there’s a clear path to follow, independent of industry titans- the bad news is wearing so many hats can diminish the quality of your music by taking time away from producing to learning more and more skills
Totally was put off producing when I realised any time you wanted to put music out one needs to shift focus to social media and networking and brand development. Now I’ve gone back to just enjoying playing guitar and doing stuff for myself. Constantly having to try to make things either good for whatever social platforms or develop a brand and push it is the worst thought ever. I’ve since pretty much stopped listening to any electronic music and gone back to my love of metal and it’s just more raw and authentic.
It has always been luck and connections Skrillex already had fame from his band and teamed with Tommy Lee. A lot of famous musicians have always had famous parents. Artists really did not even get recognition or pay even in the ancient times. Motown, Studio One, Underground Resistance, Metalheadz, Tresor where all in the right place at the right time. Even back in the day people signing to Trax records where ripped off. You may not know a lot of these names but I thank the point is valid. If you are thanking that your going to be some bright eyed mega produce the odds have always been against you. Culture usually comes out of local movements and scenes. In the very beginning the idea of a superstar DJ was not in anyone's vocabulary. The originators never really get props anyways. If so there would be Smith and Mighty tracks with millio0ns of views. Deep down, a lot of the people trying to juggle into this industry are chasing the exact dreams that others find just as depressing as what it is pointing out. So many young people away their chance at doing their own thing for going for this success because artist or machinist, everyone wants, a future where they do not have to worry.
Really appreciate your motivational kind words. But unfortunately it doesn't work like this. I'm 39 years old this year and I started Djing when I was 16. And I realise that my experience, and the hundreds of hours that I spent practising in digging thousands of good records means absolutely nothing in this day and age. I saw countless"artists" passing in front of me when the only thing they do is press sync in a list of music downloaded from TH-cam. And like me there is hundreds of artists (many of them with great talent) that never see the light of the day. Unfortunately Music doesn't speak anymore, money does.
did you think about find someone younger or lets say someone who is good with social media and suggest him/her to collaborate. that way you can give your experience and music and you can get help with other aspects with you're bad with? or lets say find person who you can pay to so you dont need to think about all these aspects (business,social, etc) ? i mean im sure there is always a way how you can start changing things..
Stop making everything seem like people should give up, and not give a chance at succeeding at what they believe in, so lets embrace the social media, the internet, the tools we have available at this moment as a vehicle to get us to places people wouldn't have imagined going 10/15 years ago.
Totally understand this perspective, but at the end of the day things are always changing and evolving. I imagine there were plenty of artist that were upset at the invention of the radio, saying man they have it so easy now anyone can hear there songs! It’s like yea that’s true but the longer you complain the more time you waste not adapting. That’s the basic principle of business. Adapt and grow. You wouldn’t say no I’m not going to use premiere pro to cut and edit my movie, I’m going to do it by hand with a knife bc that’s how we did it back then!
at some point it was all about music, when big room start to blowing up I remember dj hitting me up asking me to collab or ghost produce a track for them so they have some "legimatacy" as "DJ/Producer" now some dj can blowup on tiktok with some cool transition or an live edit
The availability of information is crazy but in a good way, its very accessible vs when I started back in 08. I was barely able to find proper tutorials and even finding samples was hard atleast good ones (vengeance sample pck) was the shit along with a bunch of other companies that came along. Idk that whole social media thing really fucked our world regardless of the industry. I feel like at some point finding true art and artists will come back because people eventually get tired of that fake shit and will go out their way to discover more authentic art. Hopefully that time is coming soon! Bless
I'm glad you spent the last 20 seconds being optimistic 😂 IMO today has never been a better time to be a music producer. I've been at it 20+ years now, I'm more excited than ever to sit down with all the modern tools and vocal AI models and create the masterpiece that I've always dreamed of. It was so difficult to get ideas from your head onto record when I was coming up, that problem has now been solved. As for fake wannabes trying to fast track their way into the music industry....well....let the people decide. If the people vote for shit, well let them hear shit 😂
In Times of Fake it Till you make it, the ones who stay focused on them Self and don’t give up, will See the Sun, when the hype is over and everyone go back to the roots.
Your words are always amazing and touching. It is very easy to get lost in the art. Being able to become a creator, an entertainer, an entrepreneur is simply too much and I feel every minute dedicated to other things is taken to the piano, to some synths, to the music. But thanks. Even not being with cosmic you keep making a big impact. Ps ( what’s the vst in the first seconds? )
it always has been and always will be difficult to have the coolest job in the world. this is the very reason why things will always change and innovate.
you are so right ! in over day you need to be much more then a music producer , you can maybe do a tutorial that explained how you do your videos ? they look really good
There should be a massive study where music lovers who go to gigs etc, stop using social media for a few months. It would be cool to see what they do to find out about gigs and new music.
I think everyone can be a music producer, but not everyone has the "talent" for it. Thats a big difference. And mostly those who are talented in it, are bad in marketing. Best example was Avicii. His talent was noticed and the managers came like flies to him.
Ive gone to so many venues where the artists just suck. Mainly because they were all just social media hype. If you look at Avicii, his music never seemed perfect, it was just the art he made and loved and everyone else loved it too.
Producers have been using social media for publicity since Twitter and MySpace yeah? It makes sense imo, given how integrated it's been in our lives since, like, 2008-2010 or so
You dont need to blast your self on social media, pay people to market the music for you. There's loads of viral songs that didnt need the producer in front of a camera dancing and there's loads of producers making a living by just making music. I have a couple of side projects that earn 10-20k a month just from streams alone, and they're all faceless. Things are changing and the pendulum always swings the other way.
social media has basically turned everyone who wants to be seen into an entrepreneur because the competition level is higher than it has ever been before. It is amazing we can learn new skills in the matter of hours but also on the other hand a lot of information is misleading or flat out false. Gift and the curse. content creation alone is like four or five jobs itself so what are job titles anymore lol
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Wow, this video really struck a chord with me. I was a signed artist and singer-songwriter over 20 yrs ago and had success with a radio hit along with a publishing deal with one of the majors that some of my songs were used by multinational brands but left the industry due to a corporate career. I decided to release music again during the pandemic, this time as an independent artist and then soon found out that I had to be and do everything you mentioned in your video. I’m so glad to see you’ve made it your mission to address this area and teaching those who are really in the music for the love it. I’m doing this again because I really love the music (the true art and the process) and as you said in the beginning of the video, music has the potential to make a difference in someone’s life, this is why we do this :). So thank you!
As an introvert, this is an absolute nightmare especially the networking and social media.
Some people lose themselves; the moment they go all in.
Yes, I keep running the race and keep getting burned out. Shit is hard man. Not to start, but keep going with producing music, content, networking, creating visual art, asking for gigs, etc. etc...
@@soulofwaves Awesome! How do you come up with ideas and how do you execute them?
@@soulofwaves Nice! Me too, as well as Adam Ivy, Tom Dupree III, and Andrew Southworth. I'm currently very good at producing a lot of quantity, but bad at the quality side. Where are you on this journey?
felt this comment in my core
@@DJTFalcon
do it for passion, not to blow up. @@DJTFalcon
i kind of hate this video because the implication is that "you could be successful just being a producer before" or "that you didnt need to know how to market" but the truth is you always have needed multiple skills (marketing being one of them). like before social media people we're emailing blogs, cold calling radio stations, going to shows to network, handing out CDs after shows, playing countless gigs and touring on shoestring budgets etc. it's never been enough just to make music if you want to be the producer AND artist. yes the means in which you get there is different now (social media compared to older marketing practices) but this has always been a game of using multiple skills. and having good music only makes all of this easier.
in a micro sense, yes things have changed (but they change all the time).
but in a macro sense, nothing has changed. good music is still good music. there is no "downfall"
Man, I thought I was the only to feel like this, really appreciate to share the same thought dude ( And OMG you are the guy at Disciple!!!!)
yeah the main difference is 10+ years ago u had to send demos to labels and self promotion wasn't really a good option, now you can self promote and not rely on labels anymore because tik tok exists and you can go viral overnight. It's pretty bizzare but that's how it is now, but nothing's really changed in terms of knowing multiple stuff except producing
A voice of reason here. Thank you. The way people consume music HAS changed, but being able to manage multiple things hasn't. In addition, I think getting someone to listen to you physically and you actually physically being in contact with people will always give you a more stable fanbase than tiktok.
thank you cyclops for saying the obvious bruh like come on everyone loves complaining
Exactly, lots of labels were predatory, and radio stations and managers would gatekeep the whole industry. Nowadays, nearly anyone can become famous. How is that a bad thing? So what a few clowns who don't care about the art made it big. It's a much more open market these days.
Don’t forget you’re competing against people who have the financial means to use ghost producers,pay to get on a lineup, pre record their sets, have industry connections and an existing following. Basically someone is doing literally nothing yet they are where you want to be.
yeah, that is fucked up dude. Last year living in Portugal I got to see an underground culture of hidden parties and festivals where they keep it real about the music and the artists, and I am optimistic that there will always be scenes like this everywhere and they will grow bigger as mainstream festivals become social media hangouts. There is enough passionate people to drive forwards what is true and authentic and enough audience to attend, and even with the huge flow of posers and fakes on the mainstream landscape, the underground will prevail and thrive, just like it has always done. Nature balances itself
Say it louder for the people in the back. Paris Hilton came to mind as soon as you said this - LOL, what a joke.
it's always been like that
bigger joke then her is Mattn. trust me Mattn is the biggest joke ever. Getting on MAINSTAGE of tomorrowland because of her BF. Having precrecored sets. Getting ghost tracks. Man biggest joke ever@@officialdjdetox
Exactly 💯
u know what I hate, producing forcing themselves to catch the trend. For example, todays, everybody want to make techno. It is sad
Well, it’s fun making fun music that everybody likes isn’t it?
I think mostly it’s an ego thing I gotta admit.
There’s a huge gap between producing a whole ass song and think about melodies, how everything fits together, scales, … and “Hypetechno” producers taking an old acapella and use the same kick & bass samples, flip their hands in front of a camera and make millions of streams.
Sometimes that’s what is taking the excitement
So, that’s one of the depressing things about it. Constantly comparing.
And seeing people getting clout from using pre made midis, put close to zero effort into their craft but being good in doing cringy TikTok’s.. that’s really heartbreaking considering the years of learning music theory, exploring different genres, pitching your shitty songs and not getting anywhere close to their “fame” if I may say so. This is not supposed to be hate, but I think I’m not alone with that thought
Im in berlin making house music. So just go your own way. If you are chasing a trend by making mediocre remakes of other peoples records instead of making music you love you will never get to where you want to go
i dont want to make techno
The beginning of the end for all art is when it becomes a business.
true
Exactly
Yep, you strip the life from it.
so true
so how are musicians/artist/producers supposed to eat?
For me, it's just the evolution of how music in our industry is marketed. 10 years ago we discovered our now favourite artists through TH-cam. The likes of Hardwell and Martin Garrix blew up from their apollo and animals release respectively. And now we evolve.
From the radio, to the TV, to TH-cam, and now to Tiktok/IG. It's just natural progression.
We can't hate the game but rather, embrace and try to see how it can help us
You get it. This is the exact attitude to have.
I agree so much
Exactly. People complain about this new age, but truthfully. This is so so much easier than what the industry used to be like. You’re no longer begging for attention from managers. The audience chooses for you. If the audience likes you, you’re almost guaranteed to know the crowd will
@@austinconnmedia YES
@@AnakimMusic my art is photo and video so my life is a little different than yours. From the outside In that’s my two cents though! Last thing I’d want to do is beg someone just to listen to a few seconds of my work
Its so depressing man. When i started back in 2010 my dream was to be an artist, not a content creator. It feels like that dream is effectively dead in a sense.
Counter argument: what was your game plan if it wasn’t for social media? Door to door networking to try to get someone’s attention so they can book you?
You could be an incredible artist but if no one knows you even exist then how do you plan to make a career in the first place?
@@austinconnmedia Sure social media was always a part of it, but it was secondary. Nowadays I see so many absolute garbage producers blow up because they make a bunch of tik toks and very cookie cutter music, and I see probably 3x as many literal musical geniuses get 0 traction bc they just make sick ass authentic art thats pushing boundaries.
@@andrewmaclean9810 you gotta find balance somewhere. If you want to create just to create then go ahead but if you’re the person who wants to make their living off of creativity the balance has to be found. Truthfully it’s a non negotiable in any creative industry. If you don’t learn to speak for yourself or give people a reason to start listening then your art is going to be made just for you.
Also, the cookie cutter creative can fall off in just a few months cause they never made anything better. Or they could carry their whole career because they’re just good at making people pay attention. Life plays out in weird ways and as frustrating as it can be sometimes I have to give those who find new ways to make themselves appear unique props. That’s half of their talent there
This is so true. Just saw a someone release a ghosted track on one of the worlds biggest record labels, pump 10K into a NYC Time square advertisement, and then promo it out like they’ve achieved that. All while the song it self has no stream numbers. This is really getting ridiculous.
Back in the tape days, there were three primary functions of a producer:
1) control of the recording budget for the record company. This involve selecting studio, engineers, etc.
2) selection of songs and arrangements.
3). Translating the aesthetic vision of the artist into a commercially viable product for the record label.
This is so deep it touched my soul. I been making music since I was a child and I am now an adult with zero benefit from making music except that passion and love that kept me going. I am officially good enough to publicly release my music and I found my focus which will be beat making and some song writing. And of course mixing🎉❤
keep going bro...i feel this 100%
It’s always been a business that’s why it’s called the music industry. Also now with social media artists have the ability to promote themselves without being tied to a shitty contract.
Great Content! This is the true about, not just one genre, but all kind of music. We're living hard days.
It's up to us as listeners, music lovers and djs to support the music & producers that care to dig a bit deeper and deliver genuine art vs. a product. The power is still with the people and the artists as *true art* can never be touched, tainted or watered down in my opinion. You just have to filter through a lot of BS now, but it's there. And always will be.
Personally I think the shift is great. Back in the day networking and getting a manager was essential. Now if you make a decent drop or nice hook, upload the sound to TikTok and if it’s good it will take you to getting shows. It’s easier than ever to show your skills, I think it’s levelled the playing field.
I thank you so much, hearing you really help me to stay in the line where I am. And not taking fear about social media producers/DJs!!!
still figuring out the social media part. thanks for the insight
The problem is that as true music makers we didn't protect what we built throughout the years. We let the hunger for popularity overcome the hunger for actually making quality music. Not to mention the fact that now any influencer who has a following feels like they're qualified to make "Music".
I love making tunes. Have been playing multiple instruments for over a decade. I record and slightly master/mix them but don’t even share on the inter webs. It just for me and friends family. It’s great not using social media and not worrying about getting noticed. I jam out to myself all the time ! Sounds conceited I know but I make music that’s fun and enjoyable mostly. Don’t care really to much about opinions because you know the old saying. (everybody has one)
Some great points mate. For anyone just starting out, know that measurement of your passion for music has absolutely nothing to do with whether this becomes a career or not. You 100% do not need to be on any big label or play any big festival etc to be just as passionate as anyone else and enjoy music your entire life. Have a great journey all 🤙🏽😎🕺🖤
Hit the nail on the head with the tutorial videos. Always seeing some kid less than a year in posting something and I'm like oh buddy you're not even close to having a full understanding. Most of the time its them not understanding the dileanation between artistic choice and technical choice.
There has never been a better time to advertise ourselves, but at the same time, it's almost impossible to make a ripple in the ocean of social media without luck.
I started DJing 3 years ago at the age of 30, and I have really struggled in regards social media. Where I live the DJ scene is pretty dead, and so I have to try and turn to the internet for any kind of fanbase, which is almost impossible for someone like myself, whose close friends have 0 interest in DJing and Music production. So now I have to just hope some sort of algorithm picks up anything I do for a few views/listens.
I am by no means a master at the craft, but I am certainly not bad, but It does feel frustrating that I need some random computer code and the swing of fads and odd viral moments to achieve any moments of success, especially if I have worked hard on something, but I as long as I stay consistent and keep going, hopefully it will be all worth it.
You're videos are great man. Always hit nail on the head.
Omg I am in the same boat as you. I have some following on SoundCloud and a tiny TH-cam fan base but I can’t seem to dive into the tiktok instagram Facebook world.. it’s so hard because making good music isn’t enough. I also started when I was 30 I’m about to be 33 🎉
@@Prod.Xido1 We just have to keep going! ( It isn't a mid life crisis either 😂)
It’s sad but everything you said is very true. The only way to succeed is to evolve with the times and love the process of making music.
Genuinely the least-clickbait most informative and insightful vid on this topic I've seen. Really great job and duly noted, thanks
Love everything from start to end man! I am producing music and hitting my head many times, I have been doing it for over 10 years, I have been playing instruments and I have been in love with DnB, I am always on the go and even if I still have to get my fans I still feel love when I sit and I start making music on my DAW. Anyway man yeah love for everything you just said!
I would rather learn how to make content and market on my own stuff rather than depend on a select few gatekeeping labels and radio stations that get to decide what “good music” is and take all your money with 360 deals. We can now go directly to the fans and have more power than artists have ever had in the history of the music business
Honestly I sometimes thinking about to quit music, because it's so exhausting. It feels for me music is secondary and its more important which level you have on social media etc.
I personally don’t like social media to use that much, but its really unfair that someone who releases music is not getting any reputation, bookings and respect. However, if a girl djs with sync, is sexy dressed and maybe plays your music she’s getting the reputation. That’s frustrates me and makes me think if it’s worth spending my time on it.
Back in the day, I wanted to pursue music production as a career. However, about six years ago, I began to realize the points discussed in this video. Don’t get me wrong, I still love music; it’s just a hobby now, and I find myself much happier for it. Not gonna lie, it’s disheartening to witness the current state of creativity across various media forms.
I'm a producer and sometimes I doubt to make my "promos" but then I remember "Attract success don't seek" and I've been increasing my numbers without posting on social, juat uploading and people started to notice me
There I was 2002 waiting next to my radio until it was 2am … the electronic radio station finally turned on for a 2 hour set… I hit record on the tape to capture it … that’s how i found my EDM artists back in the day haha.. the good ole days !
such a depressive sales pitch 😭😭😭
🤣🤣🤣
I don’t understand why this dude is acting like marketing and putting yourself out there on social media is a bad thing. Social media has enabled tons of artists and producers to have a career in the music industry who probably wouldn’t have otherwise. Just look at the entire SoundCloud Rap scene of the late 2010’s. It was an entire scene of teenagers just throwing their music up online and gaining massive success and popularity without having to sign with a major label or getting “played on the radio”. Social media is a beautiful thing that has enabled creators and artists to have thriving while being able to remain completely independent.
As a huge Future Riddim and EDM fan, I’ve been making EDM music for 8 years but only started releasing a year or two ago. I suck at the social media and i just dont care for it. I hate the whole thing about trendy marketing schemes like « if you like « x » and « x » you’ll like my music » and all that kind of attention hunting.
I always wanted to make music with a huge ambitious concept behind it. For instance, i wanna make a musical-novel that tells a story in each album. But social media won’t want that for the most part. They’ll want club bangers or trendy music that is way more popular. And thats fine. But I don’t really see my page and idea ever reaching the masses.
Since making music and listening to EDM is my biggest passion in life, i want to keep it that way. So i wont bother with huge branding or even making tons of money with it. I already have a solid career path so music will remain about passion and not selling out.
Im writing this just so that people can relate to me. Being a niche artist is a beautiful thing. Don’t let fame be the main focus. Enjoy the journey🙌🏼
So let's sum it up, to be a successful clubmusic producer/artist/writer/maker today you need to: be good at writing a good song with all this entails, you have to be able to mix it all the way all by yourself knowing all the tricks to get the mix up to the industry standard and lastly you have to be good at social media to be able to promote yourself, by yourself..... kinda takes the fun and love out of the whole thing..... music it seems is the only artform that makes the artist compete to get success, I don't see painters or sculptors having to do that. How/why has it come to this?
You can always outsource what you don't know how to do, or don't want to do. Think like an entrepreneur and build a multi-disciplinary team: you need a clear vision and people who compliment your skills to achieve it. The ones trying to do everything by themselves, will be the ones burned-out first and outperformed by teams.
If you aren't writing 100 beats a month, you don't want it bad enough. Simple as. This game isn't for everyone.
You summed it up quite nicely. True artists are all about the creative flow. Once the ego gets caught up in it and invents new motivations it’s the downfall. I predict we will see a reignited appreciation for human art after the initial mindblowing progression of ai and perhaps quantum computing.
loved this one, thanks a lot Justin 🙏
I kind of wish I started making music when I was a lot younger, but I never really considered back then. Now I’m glad to have picked it up and regardless of the result I get I will keep making music.
There's something to be said for the importance of tastemakers and how it's becoming a lost art. These days we might deride them as "gatekeepers" but they were actually good at what they did and it shows in how much the quality of music has dropped now that discovery is crowdsourced.
You’re articulating how I’ve been feeling for some time. The only thing consistent in life is change.. and resistance is futile
Didn't know Homelander provided music advice 😄 but fr, it's daunting how many things you have to take into consideration, something as simple as a reel posted at the wrong hour can decide if you get those views or not...
EVERYTHING he said is spot on 💯. Music is in a bad place.
You always manage to keep me going
Nice message!
Good. Too many of the "super producers" became gatekeepers and/or are protected by gatekeepers. Too many of them stole our ideas by having stealing our sounds and not giving us credit.
I personally had producers like Polow Da Don blatantly steal some of my stuff that I posted online.
I tell all upcoming producers to find an artist(s) they believe in and work with them. Don't worry about trying to link up with famous singers and rappers. Master your equipment and musicianship. Try to become hybrid by investing in both analog and software based instruments and means of recording. Of course network and have an open mind to what some of the well known producers teach. And always be humble.
Big name producers like Nate Danjahandz, Hit Boy and Zaytoven are great examples of people who have made countless hits, yet remain humble and love to share knowledge on online platforms, and in person.
Also, many big name producers become complacent. Everyone should have the passion of creating like Prince did, if you want to be successful long-term on a large scale.... But it is also ok to not be so every day driven if you have a passion for music, while choosing to create every now and then. Everyone is different.
Dont try to become famous by creating a facade personality or type of production. Hell, dont even try tonbecome famous at all. Let your work speak for itself. Feelnfree to promote yourself. But not at the hands of becoming famous; yet for thebreasons of passion and wanting to be respected bybyour peers while teaching others.
that's great ! society continue to evolve. Allowing new one to come on top. i dont think with just radio and mtv 20 years ago Amapiano will be that popular.. just an example..
another big thing is the business, networking and marketing takes away time from mastering the craft which is why most the music will end up mediocre rather then profound. We have to adapt but make sure you focus on the music.
This was a great video essay. Dark but inspiring. To me, This is the downfall of the “producer” as we used to conceptualize it. The world is always changing, either adapt or get left behind. Do not use these new “jobs” as an excuse to not make it. We’re provided with new opportunities and we can build a following like no other independently. There’s so much money out there and a multitude of ways to get it, if you’re hungry enough.
Hands down this is the real tutorial I needed for this crazy times... not another compression one haha, thank you so much!
If you hate the idea of the social media aspect, just pay someone to do the things you hate. That's advice I heard somewhere and it sounded like good advice to me.
You have a point but it's pricey and most of us aren't that rich unfortunately
@@AndrewChin-ck9uk that's exactly why I haven't done it
@@nacnudselrahc420 in my opinion, jus film some short form content that takes about 10mins to film. Do it one day where you film 3-5 videos then you have that for the week or two depending on your uploading schedule
@@AndrewChin-ck9ukit's not pricey. Those days are over, it's 100x cheaper to market music now than ever before.
i miss the days of SoundCloud and it just being that. how many wonders even came from that..
As I'm just starting pursuing a career in music production, I thought a lot about this subject and I realized that the most important thing for me is to be able to fulfill my existence and create music in the same quality as the ones I hear. Everything else simply doesn't matter. If we loose the ability to make art that express the human inside of us, it will then be the beginning of our extinction.
I feel you man! Im a producer producer for years, and thought a breakthrough wasn’t in the cards for me anymore….Got booked for Tomorrowland yesterday…
Nice!! What's your soundcloud?
I love the final messge. Thanks for the wise words
Great video. Not sure if my comment will be seen, but I'll paste it anyways in case it helps. Tiktok and IG are crucial, and I spent way too much of my early career ignoring them. I got lucky and had a song go viral on Tiktok and it basically doubled my listeners overnight. BUT here's the rub:
It's more or less random (that song had been out for 3 years before it went viral), it's hard to replicate, and its hard to create real fans from these social platforms vs just a casual listener who saved one of your songs. The absolute hardest pill to swallow as an artist is that being good at music doesn't make you good at social media. I have been an elite level producer for years, but I am just very average at social media, and my modest but healthy fanbase reflects that. So, the hard truth? 90% of music producers need to branch out beyond their artist project. That's what I've started doing, and the happy news is that there's tons of opportunity in these other fields like composing, ad music, etc. and in these fields, social media matters less than musical talent.
Oh the irony. This emphasis on “happy” music and “joy” instead of expressing all the other way stronger emotions is key to this downfall
Microwave music with no depth
I wish this all went more hand in hand. Like people should have a good social media following BECASUE of their music not because they look hot, or are funny, or good at video editing.
I don't mind media to help connect to your community. But I wish we could just make music and do a simple post or 2. ....not like 50 peices of content and stragegy per song.
I feel like there are loads of positive aspects to the development of social media though. Imagine how many people who wanted to make music back in the days but couldn’t record it or get listeners. Even though you need marketing skills, the possibilities are there🙏🏽
The good news is if you lock everything in and keep going there’s a clear path to follow, independent of industry titans- the bad news is wearing so many hats can diminish the quality of your music by taking time away from producing to learning more and more skills
You hit it right on the nail!
Totally was put off producing when I realised any time you wanted to put music out one needs to shift focus to social media and networking and brand development. Now I’ve gone back to just enjoying playing guitar and doing stuff for myself. Constantly having to try to make things either good for whatever social platforms or develop a brand and push it is the worst thought ever.
I’ve since pretty much stopped listening to any electronic music and gone back to my love of metal and it’s just more raw and authentic.
Great thoughts, Thanks!
It has always been luck and connections Skrillex already had fame from his band and teamed with Tommy Lee. A lot of famous musicians have always had famous parents. Artists really did not even get recognition or pay even in the ancient times. Motown, Studio One, Underground Resistance, Metalheadz, Tresor where all in the right place at the right time. Even back in the day people signing to Trax records where ripped off. You may not know a lot of these names but I thank the point is valid. If you are thanking that your going to be some bright eyed mega produce the odds have always been against you. Culture usually comes out of local movements and scenes. In the very beginning the idea of a superstar DJ was not in anyone's vocabulary. The originators never really get props anyways. If so there would be Smith and Mighty tracks with millio0ns of views. Deep down, a lot of the people trying to juggle into this industry are chasing the exact dreams that others find just as depressing as what it is pointing out. So many young people away their chance at doing their own thing for going for this success because artist or machinist, everyone wants, a future where they do not have to worry.
Really appreciate your motivational kind words. But unfortunately it doesn't work like this.
I'm 39 years old this year and I started Djing when I was 16. And I realise that my experience, and the hundreds of hours that I spent practising in digging thousands of good records means absolutely nothing in this day and age.
I saw countless"artists" passing in front of me when the only thing they do is press sync in a list of music downloaded from TH-cam.
And like me there is hundreds of artists (many of them with great talent) that never see the light of the day.
Unfortunately Music doesn't speak anymore, money does.
did you think about find someone younger or lets say someone who is good with social media and suggest him/her to collaborate. that way you can give your experience and music and you can get help with other aspects with you're bad with? or lets say find person who you can pay to so you dont need to think about all these aspects (business,social, etc) ? i mean im sure there is always a way how you can start changing things..
Stop making everything seem like people should give up, and not give a chance at succeeding at what they believe in, so lets embrace the social media, the internet, the tools we have available at this moment as a vehicle to get us to places people wouldn't have imagined going 10/15 years ago.
Needed to hear this
I make music for my own sets, that makes me happy & if my peeps like it thats also amazing! 🔥
Totally understand this perspective, but at the end of the day things are always changing and evolving. I imagine there were plenty of artist that were upset at the invention of the radio, saying man they have it so easy now anyone can hear there songs! It’s like yea that’s true but the longer you complain the more time you waste not adapting. That’s the basic principle of business. Adapt and grow. You wouldn’t say no I’m not going to use premiere pro to cut and edit my movie, I’m going to do it by hand with a knife bc that’s how we did it back then!
This is so true and it's a curse, specially for those of us who are not social media clowns.
great and powerful take on the state of the industry!
at some point it was all about music, when big room start to blowing up I remember dj hitting me up asking me to collab or ghost produce a track for them so they have some "legimatacy" as "DJ/Producer" now some dj can blowup on tiktok with some cool transition or an live edit
The availability of information is crazy but in a good way, its very accessible vs when I started back in 08. I was barely able to find proper tutorials and even finding samples was hard atleast good ones (vengeance sample pck) was the shit along with a bunch of other companies that came along. Idk that whole social media thing really fucked our world regardless of the industry. I feel like at some point finding true art and artists will come back because people eventually get tired of that fake shit and will go out their way to discover more authentic art. Hopefully that time is coming soon! Bless
Thank you for the tips
thank you for this video! really opens the mind to the shift of mindsets
Really good video. I have a feeling that this is another one yours that will take off
I'm glad you spent the last 20 seconds being optimistic 😂 IMO today has never been a better time to be a music producer. I've been at it 20+ years now, I'm more excited than ever to sit down with all the modern tools and vocal AI models and create the masterpiece that I've always dreamed of. It was so difficult to get ideas from your head onto record when I was coming up, that problem has now been solved. As for fake wannabes trying to fast track their way into the music industry....well....let the people decide. If the people vote for shit, well let them hear shit 😂
Art is for the people. By the people. So your gatekeeping isn't allowed
The question really sir is, what type of people do you want to attract anyway?
This was very eye opening, and a grim reminder that it's always more than just the music you make.
This is so true😔
In Times of Fake it Till you make it, the ones who stay focused on them Self and don’t give up, will See the Sun, when the hype is over and everyone go back to the roots.
Your words are always amazing and touching. It is very easy to get lost in the art. Being able to become a creator, an entertainer, an entrepreneur is simply too much and I feel every minute dedicated to other things is taken to the piano, to some synths, to the music.
But thanks. Even not being with cosmic you keep making a big impact.
Ps ( what’s the vst in the first seconds? )
When I need to get some sleep, I can listen to this show with the lazy voice and sleepy piano in the background and in about 5 mins I am out.
it always has been and always will be difficult to have the coolest job in the world. this is the very reason why things will always change and innovate.
Thanks for your insights Justin. This was helpful and ultimately inspirational
Awesome video with some great advice in it. Staying true to yourself in this busy world is key imo
you are so right ! in over day you need to be much more then a music producer , you can maybe do a tutorial that explained how you do your videos ? they look really good
Dropping 💎s, Justin! (And, do you have decapitater on your vocal chain? 😂)
Facts! Also, I thought the same about the Decapitator, voice is quite crisp and heavy.
Great video speaking facts
Well said
Love your channel! 🙏 Keep up the good work
There should be a massive study where music lovers who go to gigs etc, stop using social media for a few months. It would be cool to see what they do to find out about gigs and new music.
I think everyone can be a music producer, but not everyone has the "talent" for it. Thats a big difference. And mostly those who are talented in it, are bad in marketing. Best example was Avicii. His talent was noticed and the managers came like flies to him.
Ive gone to so many venues where the artists just suck. Mainly because they were all just social media hype. If you look at Avicii, his music never seemed perfect, it was just the art he made and loved and everyone else loved it too.
Producers have been using social media for publicity since Twitter and MySpace yeah? It makes sense imo, given how integrated it's been in our lives since, like, 2008-2010 or so
You dont need to blast your self on social media, pay people to market the music for you. There's loads of viral songs that didnt need the producer in front of a camera dancing and there's loads of producers making a living by just making music. I have a couple of side projects that earn 10-20k a month just from streams alone, and they're all faceless. Things are changing and the pendulum always swings the other way.
This entire video all I could think about was how he managed to hide a duck call in his throat. So much heat on that vo.
This video was therapy. Thank you
I realised that none of this is my thing and later found out I didn’t even enjoy making music so I just gave up
social media has basically turned everyone who wants to be seen into an entrepreneur because the competition level is higher than it has ever been before. It is amazing we can learn new skills in the matter of hours but also on the other hand a lot of information is misleading or flat out false. Gift and the curse. content creation alone is like four or five jobs itself so what are job titles anymore lol