They used to use it to treat people with epilepsy. I’m not sure if we still do it though but it’s not quite as barbaric as you might think. If someone suffers from really bad epilepsy separating the hemispheres stops the misfires that would cause a seizure. By separating them you can reduce the amount of seizures if not remove them entirely It did actually help some people with epilepsy live better lives surprisingly. Some did have the half removed and some have both hemispheres operating simultaneously though separate. In one of those instances the dude could essentially write two separate paragraphs at once because of the disconnect and while he didn’t suffer as many seizures he did suffer from some coordination issues but he was able to cope with it
Do they mean splitting along the Corpus Collosum? Its a fascinating procedure, but it definitely doesn't destroy consciousness, that's not even a reasonable take on the results.
@@reyis_here945no, he means the split brain procedure. In the 20th century, thisvwas a rare treatment for extreme epilepsy. Where all the nerves which connect the two hemispheres of the brain were severed. These patients could live perfectly ordinary lives afterwards with almost no sign of the procedure, but in certain specific experiments would act in very strange ways. You ought not guess when you don't know. It only makes you look
@marvalice3455 the rare treatment for epilepsy is a hemispherectomy, where the half of the brain is removed that was experiencing "brain-storms", electrical swarms in the brain that produce tens to hundreds of epileptic seizures a day. When done young, the person can still learn to control the whole body with just half the brain.
There have been cases of malformation where people with less than 5% of their brains were still conscious, though severely impaired. And a case of a chicken which survived a botched beheading with 2mm of brain stem left, and stayed alive for over a year. There is absolutely no evidence to support the hypothesis that consciousness is an emergent property of complex brains, especially when it can be sustained with so little of it left.
@@matheusadornidardenne8684 yeah, the headless chicken is one of those cases which ruins any attempt biologists might make at a model for consciousness.
Thank you for touching on this topic! This was recently a topic that crossed my mind and was giving me some concern. I’ll absolutely be checking out the Irreducible Mind series now, keep up the amazing work!
Never humor doubt by giving it the benefit, rather than letting it have its way with your mind, stress test it to see if there was any merit to it. Doubt is fine, if you treat them like ways to feul curiosity rather than blindly adopting them at face value, for it is when you allow it to go further than the mind, then it turns into a blind faith of a doubt. Scripture instructs us to take our thoughts captive before the Lord of Hosts, not to suppress them necessarily, but to look at them for what they are with the full copacity of the mind the Lord has given us, and in most cases, individuals like I.P. already went through the full analysis of such studies, but do not let the information be your sound foundation, for that is the Lord's place. More often than not, doubts that attack your confidence in God and goes down to your belief, tend to be full of logical holes, at least in the most extreme cases I have been through it doesn't take long to follow the short trail to a logical inconsistency, since it is an insult to God first, then to myself and the copacity the Lord has given, I discarde it as lapsed reasoning. God is bigger than any doubt you and I may get throughout our life with God, nothing stops us from turning it into an opportunity to learn whilst treating it like a test subject to see how and what the short comings are of a specific doubt. The man in the clip below is a prime example of someone subject to their doubts, who is subject to the doubts that discourage him from looking at the full piece of the picture presented. Remember the case of Thomas, he had his doubts, he could have let them consumed him on both occasions, the first when the disciples reported to have seen Christ and a second time when he was told to come the next time they were going to meet Yeshua and could have not come, thus adopting his doubts, instead he confronted it and even in the presence of the Lord Himself he continued to do so, until he saw no further reason to hold onto those doubts and to adopt them, for there before him, fully tangible stood Yeshua. He doubted, but took them captive before the Lord and recognized his Lord, his King, our Monarch. God bless, and may individuals like the fellow in the bottom half of the clip become suspicious of their doubts and not jump to conclusions as he had done in favor of the Enemy, thus making him look like a fool.
People will believe we're computer programs before they believe in God. Pray for them to see the truth, the Lord is love. Jesus lives ♥️ and is God 🙏🏻 Christ ✝️ and King 👑
Exactly. Whatever it is, just no God. Not because that implies supernatural, but because that implies authority towards where even your thoughts are accountable.
Eh why not both? God could program computers if they wanted or more likely is programming something else that programs the computer. Adding computers doesn't actually prove or disprove IMO
Agreed. The brain is simply a physical representation of a conscious agent’s mind, not the producer of it. Case studies like these provide further support to idealism.
Another thing to know, when people lose part of their brain like in accidents, thier still capable of conscience while the part of the brain they lost dries up practically instantly
You are right on the issue of the modal difference, but I wish you would have played the actual video of the split brain patient in length because even beyond the model, some of the more observable properities itself would be more interesting to discuss in how they relate or not. This is because even if the switch model is correct some of the facts of the case itself may be more what brings up questions especially in terms of how split beain patients express information uniquely even under a alligned concious model
de Haan EHF, Corballis PM, Hillyard SA, Marzi CA, Seth A, Lamme VAF, Volz L, Fabri M, Schechter E, Bayne T, Corballis M, Pinto Y. Split-Brain: What We Know Now and Why This is Important for Understanding Consciousness. Neuropsychol Rev. 2020 Jun;30(2):224-233. doi: 10.1007/s11065-020-09439-3. Epub 2020 May 12. PMID: 32399946; PMCID: PMC7305066. Is a good lit rev
There has been many people with brain cancer, and so much of their brain was eaten up from cancer , that they should have been a vegetable or dead. Doctor's had no explanation why the person was functioning and not dead,but we Christians know why.
I don't mean to argue against exactly. But an immense part of consciousness is perception, and the perceptual parts of the brain are separated. When the hemispheres are severed from eachother, there is still parts of the system attached for sure. But it seems awfully strange that when they are separated the two halves can sometimes draw their own pictures. Or that sometimes someone will draw half of something and insist they've completed. Or be shown an object to one eye, the assert that they KNOW what the object is, but somehow refuse to answer what it is, finding any rational besides that they can't identify it. That is similar with some very special types of blindness, they swear they can see the thing, but can't describe it at all. In summary, I think there's more evidence showing the conscious mind to be very fractional, broken up into pieces that all work together to create something larger.
@@tabularasa0606 am I using the wrong term? I'm describing the ghost in the (biological) machine, the mind if you will. It doesn't appear to be part of physical reality. It somehow emerges from non conscious materials. We certainly do not know what it is, or how it "works".
I believe in Dualism. The mind and body are not the same. The mind is immaterial, non-spatial and indivisible. Our thoughts exists in an inmaterial realm. Consider the dreams we have. If the dreams are solely based on the neural activities of neurotransmitters in the brain, then are we to say that those neurotransmitters feel emotions? Surely, our emotions exists in an immaterial realm. So, the body and mind are not the same.
Why polarize? I think there is nothing mundane about matter. The division between the physical and the spiritual is purely cognitive. And I see this cognitive division as a habitual cognitive error. Polarized thinking is already the most common cognitive error. Polarized perception of a spectrum is usually good enough for government work in most simple everyday dynamics.... Maybe not so sufficient for delving into the subtle and great existential mysteries.
So much of these arguments come down to intellectual sloppiness. If we insisted on what we mean when talking about the difference between the faculties of the soul and the facultues of the body, these guys would immediately shut up, or their conflation would be obvious to a blind rabbit
That just means that the brain can still operate when its in two halfs and are in the same body reacting to the same things. Splitting the brain wouldn't destroy consciousness (it make multiple, but the only way to test this is to put both half-brains in separate bodies). Consciousness can be effected by things happening to the brain, otherwise schizophrenia, dissociative identity disorder, and epilepsy wouldn't effect conscious experiences and anesthesia (which slows brain activity to almost a stop when it works properly) wouldn't work. I do think that a split brain patient likely has a single consciousness because materially consciousness would just be a certain way of processing information and if you have the same organism with 2 information processes running in paralel itd be no different than having a connected brain
The reason people characterize split brain patients as becoming two different consciousnesses is that it's possible to communicate with them in a way that only one hemisphere is involved, and when you do that, each hemisphere can give different answers to the same question and show they have different preferences and different beliefs. There was at least one case where a person was asked if they believed in God through one hemisphere and responded "yes" and then asked through the other hemisphere and responded "no". If you believe that this person is one conscious agent with one soul, does he or does he not believe in God? If he were to die, would his soul go to heaven or hell? And how are you able to determine that?
Then you have NDEs with people accurately describing things they couldn't possibly know. Lee Strobel talks about this in his The Case For Miracles presentation.
if you cut the brain in half you get independent decision making since the 2 half cant communicate anymore. this topic is completely disconnected from the concept of a soul.
I think of our brain as a rail system for our soul. If the brain is damaged our soul might derail but that doesnt mean our soul is not there let alone off the track.
Personally I do believe in a soul that's separate from the body, but I think we should be honest enough and say no one knows. Theist or atheist. There's arguments for both sides, but no ultimate answers in my opinion, only what makes sense to the individual. We'll only know when we're dead. If there's an afterlife we'll be conscious. If there isn't, well, we won't be aware of course.
This will depend on who you ask, but I know of one person (constellationrising on TikTok) who believes that all their separate identities are still the same person/soul. They've explained how their disorder interacts with their faith in a few of their videos.
With split brain paitents . If both sides are truely split and have no connection with eachother . Split brain paitents shouldnt be able to walk or ride a bike or do any act/ behaviour that requires coordination between both hemispheres. Especially since the right hemisphere controls the left side of the body and vice verse It's problems like these that made me realy move to a different theory of conciousness and i think Dr. Donnald Hoffman is probably on the right track for creating a new theory of conciousness. Concious realism
Split brain stuff did give me some odd thoughts though I never really thought about it as somehow being used to deny a soul exists. Either way though this is helpful info, thank you : o
@tabularasa0606 No, it's not. It is hypothesized by materialists to be a physical phenomenon. Nobody knows what causes consciousness or what consciousness even is. There isn't even a consensus on the definition.
@@Paul-A01 Yes, some believe this.. but that is not the case with everybody. I know a lot of Christians, Muslims and Jews who believe the soul is an entity separated from the body and according to them, created by God before the body’s formation. And they practically exist to “slot in” in a body prior to birth
Weird, my post didn’t show up. I'll try again. Click on the 3 vertical dots at the top right of the video. The description is there (though it still doesn't have links to the articles)
@@chriper77 I've been noticing sometimes there is a delay, especially if the algor tags any posts of yours recently. Likely in an analysis queue or something.
@@LostArchivist No worries mate. I only discovered it fairly recently myself. Yeah, there must've been a delay. I couldn't see the 2nd comment I made either so I was just gonna leave it. Then I noticed your reply :)
If you're implying this indicates there's a soul, would you also be implying animals have a soul? When the corpus callosum was severed in animals the hemispheres continued to function and the animal was still conscious.
Even if the idea of copiousness being false is true do you really want to believe that? Do you really want to believe that your not real and just a meaningless piece of dust to be overwritten
Here's how abduls do taqi-yya: 1. Abduls claim all qurans around the world are perfectly preserved and are exactly the same word for word, letter for letter. 2. When we show them different qurans with different words they cunningly shift the goalposts claiming that the qurans may have different words but the differences are only due to different accents or different dialects. 3. When we then point out that the differences are not due to different accents or different dialects but that there are different words with different meaning altogether, they shift the goalposts again alleging that it's the context that is preserved because the different qurans complement each another. 4. When we again point out that certain verses in different qurans contradict each other, they make another excuse claiming all the different qurans are actually different qira'ats and were authorized by muhummud and so are preserved. 5. When we then ask them for proof from their qurans or hadiths where muhummud or allah authorized 10, 15 or 50 qira'ats, abduls start fuming and get triggered crying that we are Islamophobes and are lying 🤦 6. So notice how they shift their goalposts multiple times: "Perfectly preserved word for word" to "different words but different accents or dialects" to "context is the same" to "all qira'ats authorized by muhummud"!
WOAH! Wait, don’t say it’s irreducible! (Don’t continue reading if you are snowflake) There’s ignorant people who will deny or try to reduce it just because they think it’s wrong out of their ego in their ideas being hurt.
This surgery actually proves that the soul is not material. Since either side of the brain could be removed yet the patient will still be able to know the difference between right and wrong.
@@Halfmeca Same as momentum, gravity and other conservative forces. The laws of physics are not about the material substance. They are about the affect on the material and they are always conserved. (e.g. Conservation of energy or Conservation of angular momentum.) The soul is eternal.
@@paulgibbons887 Gravity is literally mass affecting the world. The conservation laws are just about how energy can't be created or destroyed. These are material things I can observe, calculate, and detect ie materialism. If a soul does exist but can't be detectable in any way then it functionally doesn't exsist.
@@Halfmeca We can all detect, observe and possibly calculate things like love, friendship, wisdom, kindness, joy and many other things that are not material.
I walked in on my loudly atheist photography teacher in high school having a conversation with a girl, “I was a medical photographer for YEARS; I’ve seen the inside of thousands of bodies, dead and alive. I’ve never seen anything that suggests that we have a soul within us.” I laughed and said, “but a soul wouldn’t have physical properties.” He got really mad and yelled back, “NEITHER DOES GOD!” and I was dismissed.
I have to agree here. I have had a running debate with a former colleague and Neuroscientist/reductionist. Who I used to joke did X-mas Tree science. Oh, Ed, look at all the pretty lights (in the MRI imaging)-those correlates of consciousness maybe, if only you could actually demonstrate that that is what consciousness is. I know I know, we're just brain and nothing more. Is consciousness only a consequence of three pounds of grey matter. Well, if you listen to MANY MANY neuroscientists that's their HOLY GRAIL. Trying to provide proof for a PURELY MATERIALIST explanation of consciousness. The problem is that consciousness is a phenomenally complex phenomenon that is difficult not only to understand but even define clearly. In philosophjy there is a very long history concerning the problem of consciousness that continues to challenge and baffle. The problem? Consciousness is something that cannot have and fully know itself, that always points to something beyond it that is also it. An infinity of sorts that is the ground of self-awareness and the self. It is also an appropriate place for those who believe in a God to begin their inquiries and discussion of the transcendent or the hieraphonous as religious scholars like Eliade to it.
Some ancient cultures, like the Celts, believed the soul resided in the head. I know its not directly related but how you worded your comment made me think of it.
Even if OP’s claim was true, what does that prove? If you split a brain, you lose consciousness. Therefore, you have no consciousness even if your brain isn’t split. What kind of logic is that? lol
happy sunday i have a questions about theistic evolution and genesis. So if death existed before the garden and the earth was waste and barren and humans were called to subdue the earth, why does the bible say that after God creates something, “it was good”? just a questions this has been on my mind for a while. Is it that it was still good because that’s the design that God had in plan, or something else?
I think IP has made a video about this. If I remember the gist of it correctly, when God said the world was good, ‘’good’’ refers to ‘’functioning properly’’ rather than ‘’moral goodness’’.
This doesn't explain the phenomenon of split-brain patients not being able to name something that only their right visual cortex sees. Since the field of vision of both eyes is split between both halves of your visual cortex, an image that you see in only the left field of vision in both eyes is processed by just your right visual cortex. Because centers for language like Broca's and Wernicke's areas are in the left hemisphere of the brain, someone who only sees an image in the left visual field of both eyes won't be able to name what they're seeing. This proves that both hemispheres are different centers of perception with their own concepts and impulses, there is no single concious agent that "switches" between hemispheres or whatever supernatural nonsense this charlatan would have you believe.
He's a charlatan because he believes in something you don't? I'm not debating you either, I can see your point and think you make a good one, but just calling Michael a charlatan just because he believes in a supernatural explanation, whether justified or not, seems to be a cheap shot due to differing beliefs. If you have proof he's lying for money by all means share it, but if its just because he chooses to believe in something you (I assume based on how you worded your comment) find foolish, its slander and does nothing to further your argument.
The soul is not something you have it is something you are. You ARE a soul, you will be a soul even if half your body is removed. And when you die you will become a dead soul.
He's saying when your brain is removed you have two consciousness (debunking a soul) The issue with that is when you get into a car accident part of your brain is destroyed... so what happen to that "supposed" second consciousness
Find it a little suspicious you don’t put your sources and just talk out of your *** 😂😂😂 we know too little about consciousness to make a statement either way your just hoping for something that already fits your narrative and running with it 😂
@@angelosaracco7442 if you think him mentioning a name on his video is how you source your work then your just as bad as him 🤦🏽 go to any scientific paper or journal or news article and find out how you properly source your work
@@marvalice3455 except the depiction in the show implied the hand that wasnt able to be controlled, was controlled by a separate consciousness; the very same idea that Michael is debunking in this short. Its not a classical depiction of alien hand syndrome; instead it borders on sci-fi.
@@reyis_here945 Yes its a show. But it’s a very apt reference, dont you think? A patient that underwent a brain surgery that separated the two hemispheres of his brain had an uncontrollable hand that seemed to have its own consciousness.
I’ve been told by others that I have half a brain, but it’s never been a problem for me 😊
Half full!
I can’t tell if that’s just an objective fact or if they are insulting you 😂😅
Ex muslima?
😂😂😂😂😂
Aww theres nothing wrong with that, hey atleast you acknowledge it!
Are we gonna sleep on the fact that a man got his brain cut "for science"?
Yeah hold up
They used to do it as a treatment for epilepsy. That's probably why.
Are we going to sleep on the surname of one of the authors quoted is Gazinga?
No. We're just not that bothered.
They used to use it to treat people with epilepsy. I’m not sure if we still do it though but it’s not quite as barbaric as you might think. If someone suffers from really bad epilepsy separating the hemispheres stops the misfires that would cause a seizure. By separating them you can reduce the amount of seizures if not remove them entirely
It did actually help some people with epilepsy live better lives surprisingly. Some did have the half removed and some have both hemispheres operating simultaneously though separate. In one of those instances the dude could essentially write two separate paragraphs at once because of the disconnect and while he didn’t suffer as many seizures he did suffer from some coordination issues but he was able to cope with it
Do they mean splitting along the Corpus Collosum? Its a fascinating procedure, but it definitely doesn't destroy consciousness, that's not even a reasonable take on the results.
I think he means if your in a car accident and part of it is removed
Expecting reason or logic from a materialist is naive
@@reyis_here945no, he means the split brain procedure.
In the 20th century, thisvwas a rare treatment for extreme epilepsy. Where all the nerves which connect the two hemispheres of the brain were severed.
These patients could live perfectly ordinary lives afterwards with almost no sign of the procedure, but in certain specific experiments would act in very strange ways.
You ought not guess when you don't know. It only makes you look
@@marvalice3455 talk about a "Split"
@marvalice3455 the rare treatment for epilepsy is a hemispherectomy, where the half of the brain is removed that was experiencing "brain-storms", electrical swarms in the brain that produce tens to hundreds of epileptic seizures a day. When done young, the person can still learn to control the whole body with just half the brain.
Bro always brings the receipts
I don't understand this man. If you cut your brain in half and it still functions, doesn't that point to something like a soul?
If You lose part of your brain... you "can" still be conscience... while that part is dead and dries up
There have been cases of malformation where people with less than 5% of their brains were still conscious, though severely impaired.
And a case of a chicken which survived a botched beheading with 2mm of brain stem left, and stayed alive for over a year.
There is absolutely no evidence to support the hypothesis that consciousness is an emergent property of complex brains, especially when it can be sustained with so little of it left.
@@reyis_here945nope. That is not what this is talking about
@@matheusadornidardenne8684 yeah, the headless chicken is one of those cases which ruins any attempt biologists might make at a model for consciousness.
Materialism has pretty much given up on models at this point. They just presume they are correct and go from their
Praise the Lord🍷
Uh, no.
Amen, praise Him 🙌🏻
@@cowbatboots282 every head shall bow.
Now or later.
@@marvalice3455 sorry, I'm not into your comics.
@@cowbatboots282Comics?
Thank you for touching on this topic! This was recently a topic that crossed my mind and was giving me some concern. I’ll absolutely be checking out the Irreducible Mind series now, keep up the amazing work!
Never humor doubt by giving it the benefit, rather than letting it have its way with your mind, stress test it to see if there was any merit to it.
Doubt is fine, if you treat them like ways to feul curiosity rather than blindly adopting them at face value, for it is when you allow it to go further than the mind, then it turns into a blind faith of a doubt. Scripture instructs us to take our thoughts captive before the Lord of Hosts, not to suppress them necessarily, but to look at them for what they are with the full copacity of the mind the Lord has given us, and in most cases, individuals like I.P. already went through the full analysis of such studies, but do not let the information be your sound foundation, for that is the Lord's place.
More often than not, doubts that attack your confidence in God and goes down to your belief, tend to be full of logical holes, at least in the most extreme cases I have been through it doesn't take long to follow the short trail to a logical inconsistency, since it is an insult to God first, then to myself and the copacity the Lord has given, I discarde it as lapsed reasoning.
God is bigger than any doubt you and I may get throughout our life with God, nothing stops us from turning it into an opportunity to learn whilst treating it like a test subject to see how and what the short comings are of a specific doubt.
The man in the clip below is a prime example of someone subject to their doubts, who is subject to the doubts that discourage him from looking at the full piece of the picture presented.
Remember the case of Thomas, he had his doubts, he could have let them consumed him on both occasions, the first when the disciples reported to have seen Christ and a second time when he was told to come the next time they were going to meet Yeshua and could have not come, thus adopting his doubts, instead he confronted it and even in the presence of the Lord Himself he continued to do so, until he saw no further reason to hold onto those doubts and to adopt them, for there before him, fully tangible stood Yeshua. He doubted, but took them captive before the Lord and recognized his Lord, his King, our Monarch.
God bless, and may individuals like the fellow in the bottom half of the clip become suspicious of their doubts and not jump to conclusions as he had done in favor of the Enemy, thus making him look like a fool.
People will believe we're computer programs before they believe in God. Pray for them to see the truth, the Lord is love.
Jesus lives ♥️ and is God 🙏🏻 Christ ✝️ and King 👑
Exactly. Whatever it is, just no God. Not because that implies supernatural, but because that implies authority towards where even your thoughts are accountable.
Eh why not both? God could program computers if they wanted or more likely is programming something else that programs the computer. Adding computers doesn't actually prove or disprove IMO
@@harlequingnoll5 why not just trust God?
@@JadDragon to me it is just with extra steps
@@harlequingnoll5 you're limiting God to working on a computer instead of being able to just make life? Ok.
Simpler answer to any claim like this... the necessity of hardware does not disprove the existence of software.
Agreed. The brain is simply a physical representation of a conscious agent’s mind, not the producer of it. Case studies like these provide further support to idealism.
Idealism is truth.
Another thing to know, when people lose part of their brain like in accidents, thier still capable of conscience while the part of the brain they lost dries up practically instantly
Dr. Michael Gazzaniga, not Gazzinga.
.... cancelled?!
bazinga
Michael Sheldon Gazzinga
@@145pajamas That's the first thing I thought when I heard that name.
@@145pajamas not nao sheldor pls
I'm glad you continue to fight the good fight of truth in media.
You are right on the issue of the modal difference, but I wish you would have played the actual video of the split brain patient in length because even beyond the model, some of the more observable properities itself would be more interesting to discuss in how they relate or not. This is because even if the switch model is correct some of the facts of the case itself may be more what brings up questions especially in terms of how split beain patients express information uniquely even under a alligned concious model
th-cam.com/video/ZMLzP1VCANo/w-d-xo.htmlsi=-GCMiMmVuS_YQVtj
This is often the video most see if people are curious about the patient
de Haan EHF, Corballis PM, Hillyard SA, Marzi CA, Seth A, Lamme VAF, Volz L, Fabri M, Schechter E, Bayne T, Corballis M, Pinto Y. Split-Brain: What We Know Now and Why This is Important for Understanding Consciousness. Neuropsychol Rev. 2020 Jun;30(2):224-233. doi: 10.1007/s11065-020-09439-3. Epub 2020 May 12. PMID: 32399946; PMCID: PMC7305066.
Is a good lit rev
The best way to understand the way the brain works is to think of it as the interface between your soul and your body
Thats interesting because the split brain thing concerned me a bit when i heard it.
There has been many people with brain cancer, and so much of their brain was eaten up from cancer , that they should have been a vegetable or dead. Doctor's had no explanation why the person was functioning and not dead,but we Christians know why.
I don't mean to argue against exactly. But an immense part of consciousness is perception, and the perceptual parts of the brain are separated. When the hemispheres are severed from eachother, there is still parts of the system attached for sure. But it seems awfully strange that when they are separated the two halves can sometimes draw their own pictures. Or that sometimes someone will draw half of something and insist they've completed. Or be shown an object to one eye, the assert that they KNOW what the object is, but somehow refuse to answer what it is, finding any rational besides that they can't identify it. That is similar with some very special types of blindness, they swear they can see the thing, but can't describe it at all. In summary, I think there's more evidence showing the conscious mind to be very fractional, broken up into pieces that all work together to create something larger.
Hard to claim anything when we don't even know what consciousness actually is.
We know exactly what it is, maybe you should talk to some experts in the field.
@@tabularasa0606 am I using the wrong term? I'm describing the ghost in the (biological) machine, the mind if you will. It doesn't appear to be part of physical reality. It somehow emerges from non conscious materials. We certainly do not know what it is, or how it "works".
I believe in Dualism. The mind and body are not the same. The mind is immaterial, non-spatial and indivisible. Our thoughts exists in an inmaterial realm. Consider the dreams we have. If the dreams are solely based on the neural activities of neurotransmitters in the brain, then are we to say that those neurotransmitters feel emotions? Surely, our emotions exists in an immaterial realm. So, the body and mind are not the same.
Why polarize?
I think there is nothing mundane about
matter. The division between the physical
and the spiritual is purely cognitive.
And I see this cognitive division as a habitual cognitive error.
Polarized thinking is already the most
common cognitive error.
Polarized perception of a spectrum is usually good enough for government work in most
simple everyday dynamics....
Maybe not so sufficient for delving into
the subtle and great existential mysteries.
Why is it sure that emotions exist in an immaterial realm?
Maybe they should ditch the Plato brain.
So much of these arguments come down to intellectual sloppiness. If we insisted on what we mean when talking about the difference between the faculties of the soul and the facultues of the body, these guys would immediately shut up, or their conflation would be obvious to a blind rabbit
Or psychological faculties but that one's a bit of a stretch of a concept
Bro be like "we cut this guys head off and he wasn't conscious. Souls debunked!"
That just means that the brain can still operate when its in two halfs and are in the same body reacting to the same things. Splitting the brain wouldn't destroy consciousness (it make multiple, but the only way to test this is to put both half-brains in separate bodies).
Consciousness can be effected by things happening to the brain, otherwise schizophrenia, dissociative identity disorder, and epilepsy wouldn't effect conscious experiences and anesthesia (which slows brain activity to almost a stop when it works properly) wouldn't work.
I do think that a split brain patient likely has a single consciousness because materially consciousness would just be a certain way of processing information and if you have the same organism with 2 information processes running in paralel itd be no different than having a connected brain
The reason people characterize split brain patients as becoming two different consciousnesses is that it's possible to communicate with them in a way that only one hemisphere is involved, and when you do that, each hemisphere can give different answers to the same question and show they have different preferences and different beliefs. There was at least one case where a person was asked if they believed in God through one hemisphere and responded "yes" and then asked through the other hemisphere and responded "no". If you believe that this person is one conscious agent with one soul, does he or does he not believe in God? If he were to die, would his soul go to heaven or hell? And how are you able to determine that?
Then you have NDEs with people accurately describing things they couldn't possibly know. Lee Strobel talks about this in his The Case For Miracles presentation.
In things that didn't happen. People having NDEs are not dead.
if you cut the brain in half you get independent decision making since the 2 half cant communicate anymore. this topic is completely disconnected from the concept of a soul.
I think of our brain as a rail system for our soul. If the brain is damaged our soul might derail but that doesnt mean our soul is not there let alone off the track.
Personally I do believe in a soul that's separate from the body, but I think we should be honest enough and say no one knows. Theist or atheist. There's arguments for both sides, but no ultimate answers in my opinion, only what makes sense to the individual. We'll only know when we're dead. If there's an afterlife we'll be conscious. If there isn't, well, we won't be aware of course.
Absolute W
Wowzers this is really interesting….
Now I'm wondering about d.i.d. and souls
DID isnt real. Its largely an extended roleplay session coupled with the therapist playing along.
This will depend on who you ask, but I know of one person (constellationrising on TikTok) who believes that all their separate identities are still the same person/soul. They've explained how their disorder interacts with their faith in a few of their videos.
One of IPs videos about the mind covered some stuff about DID, if I remember correctly.
@@Paul-A01
It is very real.
@@tabularasa0606 nah.
With split brain paitents .
If both sides are truely split and have no connection with eachother . Split brain paitents shouldnt be able to walk or ride a bike or do any act/ behaviour that requires coordination between both hemispheres. Especially since the right hemisphere controls the left side of the body and vice verse
It's problems like these that made me realy move to a different theory of conciousness and i think Dr. Donnald Hoffman is probably on the right track for creating a new theory of conciousness. Concious realism
We all know that Dr Michael Bazinga is a prankster
Split brain stuff did give me some odd thoughts though I never really thought about it as somehow being used to deny a soul exists. Either way though this is helpful info, thank you : o
I like to think of sand even you former a hill, the sand is still attached
The brain definitely creates consciousness because there is no physical phenomenon that can address it other than that.
You're assuming that consciousness is caused by physical phenomenon.
There's also the possibility that we are 4th dimensional beings with 3 dimensional observability.
@@Dee-nonamnamrson8718
It's a fact that it is.
@tabularasa0606 No, it's not. It is hypothesized by materialists to be a physical phenomenon. Nobody knows what causes consciousness or what consciousness even is. There isn't even a consensus on the definition.
And today I found out that doctors are splitting living brains in half.
Everyone knows that the sole is kept in the bottoms of Feet!
No, but a bit off topic here, cloning does debunk the belief in reincarnation, or in souls waiting for a specific fetus to inhabit
Christian belief is that souls are created in a body at the moment of conception, not waiting around in heaven to slot in.
@@Paul-A01 Yes, some believe this.. but that is not the case with everybody. I know a lot of Christians, Muslims and Jews who believe the soul is an entity separated from the body and according to them, created by God before the body’s formation. And they practically exist to “slot in” in a body prior to birth
@@user-wx4bw3fs1i well that is not according to church
@@pavlekovacevic1676 Which church exactly? Not even Christians can agree about the interpretation of the Scriptures
Now he can be at two places at once!
In the ancient world the soul was located in the heart not the brain.
You can cut computer into pieces while it is running and claim software is a lie.
Michael Bazinga
Could you post the DOI's for those articles in the comments (Since shorts have no description).
Shorts do actually have a description, so they could be posted there. Click on the 3 dots on the top right of the video. The description is there :)
Weird, my post didn’t show up. I'll try again. Click on the 3 vertical dots at the top right of the video. The description is there (though it still doesn't have links to the articles)
@@chriper77 I've been noticing sometimes there is a delay, especially if the algor tags any posts of yours recently. Likely in an analysis queue or something.
@@chriper77 Also thank you. I completely overlooked that.
@@LostArchivist No worries mate. I only discovered it fairly recently myself.
Yeah, there must've been a delay. I couldn't see the 2nd comment I made either so I was just gonna leave it. Then I noticed your reply :)
If you're implying this indicates there's a soul, would you also be implying animals have a soul? When the corpus callosum was severed in animals the hemispheres continued to function and the animal was still conscious.
There is no incorporeal soul in scripture. The body+breath=a living soul. But I do believe that we have one mind/psyche.
Ha, gazzinga
Kinda like a 3 in 1, our soul could be split in 3s, just like God's essence
Can you debunk William Donahue?
I see no reason why this points to a soul though, but yes I agree it's weak evidence to use against the claim of there being a soul
Bazinga!
Even if the idea of copiousness being false is true do you really want to believe that? Do you really want to believe that your not real and just a meaningless piece of dust to be overwritten
Here's how abduls do taqi-yya:
1. Abduls claim all qurans around the world are perfectly preserved and are exactly the same word for word, letter for letter.
2. When we show them different qurans with different words they cunningly shift the goalposts claiming that the qurans may have different words but the differences are only due to different accents or different dialects.
3. When we then point out that the differences are not due to different accents or different dialects but that there are different words with different meaning altogether, they shift the goalposts again alleging that it's the context that is preserved because the different qurans complement each another.
4. When we again point out that certain verses in different qurans contradict each other, they make another excuse claiming all the different qurans are actually different qira'ats and were authorized by muhummud and so are preserved.
5. When we then ask them for proof from their qurans or hadiths where muhummud or allah authorized 10, 15 or 50 qira'ats, abduls start fuming and get triggered crying that we are Islamophobes and are lying 🤦
6. So notice how they shift their goalposts multiple times:
"Perfectly preserved word for word" to "different words but different accents or dialects" to "context is the same" to "all qira'ats authorized by muhummud"!
WOAH! Wait, don’t say it’s irreducible!
(Don’t continue reading if you are snowflake)
There’s ignorant people who will deny or try to reduce it just because they think it’s wrong out of their ego in their ideas being hurt.
This surgery actually proves that the soul is not material. Since either side of the brain could be removed yet the patient will still be able to know the difference between right and wrong.
So if it's not material then how does it affect the material world?
@@Halfmeca Same as momentum, gravity and other conservative forces. The laws of physics are not about the material substance. They are about the affect on the material and they are always conserved. (e.g. Conservation of energy or Conservation of angular momentum.) The soul is eternal.
@@paulgibbons887 Gravity is literally mass affecting the world. The conservation laws are just about how energy can't be created or destroyed. These are material things I can observe, calculate, and detect ie materialism. If a soul does exist but can't be detectable in any way then it functionally doesn't exsist.
@@Halfmeca We can all detect, observe and possibly calculate things like love, friendship, wisdom, kindness, joy and many other things that are not material.
@@paulgibbons887 All of those things we can't detect, observe or calculate. We can observe someone being loving or kind but not kindness itself.
Dualism isn’t biblical.
So it kinda proves our position
Bro is on to straight nothing
Dr Michael Bazinga
How many articles you read? 😎
I walked in on my loudly atheist photography teacher in high school having a conversation with a girl, “I was a medical photographer for YEARS; I’ve seen the inside of thousands of bodies, dead and alive. I’ve never seen anything that suggests that we have a soul within us.”
I laughed and said, “but a soul wouldn’t have physical properties.”
He got really mad and yelled back, “NEITHER DOES GOD!” and I was dismissed.
The soul lives in ur third eye we all know the truth by now ….. god is real af and so is the devil 👿 and most of y’all rockin with the devil
Nicely said...❤
Yet none of this proves the existence of a god
So the brain is like a magnet and u cut ut in half it still has 2 poles.
I have to agree here. I have had a running debate with a former colleague and Neuroscientist/reductionist. Who I used to joke did X-mas Tree science. Oh, Ed, look at all the pretty lights (in the MRI imaging)-those correlates of consciousness maybe, if only you could actually demonstrate that that is what consciousness is. I know I know, we're just brain and nothing more. Is consciousness only a consequence of three pounds of grey matter. Well, if you listen to MANY MANY neuroscientists that's their HOLY GRAIL. Trying to provide proof for a PURELY MATERIALIST explanation of consciousness. The problem is that consciousness is a phenomenally complex phenomenon that is difficult not only to understand but even define clearly. In philosophjy there is a very long history concerning the problem of consciousness that continues to challenge and baffle. The problem? Consciousness is something that cannot have and fully know itself, that always points to something beyond it that is also it. An infinity of sorts that is the ground of self-awareness and the self. It is also an appropriate place for those who believe in a God to begin their inquiries and discussion of the transcendent or the hieraphonous as religious scholars like Eliade to it.
No there is no evidence for the soul. None at all.
The brain is an organ! When did it become the criteria for a soul.
Some ancient cultures, like the Celts, believed the soul resided in the head. I know its not directly related but how you worded your comment made me think of it.
@@matthewgordonpettipas6773 interesting
Even if OP’s claim was true, what does that prove? If you split a brain, you lose consciousness. Therefore, you have no consciousness even if your brain isn’t split. What kind of logic is that? lol
You didn't disagree with what you said at all
bazingga
happy sunday i have a questions about theistic evolution and genesis.
So if death existed before the garden and the earth was waste and barren and humans were called to subdue the earth, why does the bible say that after God creates something, “it was good”? just a questions this has been on my mind for a while. Is it that it was still good because that’s the design that God had in plan, or something else?
I think IP has made a video about this. If I remember the gist of it correctly, when God said the world was good, ‘’good’’ refers to ‘’functioning properly’’ rather than ‘’moral goodness’’.
This doesn't explain the phenomenon of split-brain patients not being able to name something that only their right visual cortex sees. Since the field of vision of both eyes is split between both halves of your visual cortex, an image that you see in only the left field of vision in both eyes is processed by just your right visual cortex. Because centers for language like Broca's and Wernicke's areas are in the left hemisphere of the brain, someone who only sees an image in the left visual field of both eyes won't be able to name what they're seeing. This proves that both hemispheres are different centers of perception with their own concepts and impulses, there is no single concious agent that "switches" between hemispheres or whatever supernatural nonsense this charlatan would have you believe.
He's a charlatan because he believes in something you don't?
I'm not debating you either, I can see your point and think you make a good one, but just calling Michael a charlatan just because he believes in a supernatural explanation, whether justified or not, seems to be a cheap shot due to differing beliefs. If you have proof he's lying for money by all means share it, but if its just because he chooses to believe in something you (I assume based on how you worded your comment) find foolish, its slander and does nothing to further your argument.
The soul is not something you have it is something you are. You ARE a soul, you will be a soul even if half your body is removed. And when you die you will become a dead soul.
Your soul doesn't die though.
Your soul doesn't die.
You need to get back to debunking something I can understand, like Dawah...
He's saying when your brain is removed you have two consciousness (debunking a soul)
The issue with that is when you get into a car accident part of your brain is destroyed... so what happen to that "supposed" second consciousness
Find it a little suspicious you don’t put your sources and just talk out of your *** 😂😂😂 we know too little about consciousness to make a statement either way your just hoping for something that already fits your narrative and running with it 😂
He literally shows his sources and even names one of the researchers
@@angelosaracco7442 if you think him mentioning a name on his video is how you source your work then your just as bad as him 🤦🏽 go to any scientific paper or journal or news article and find out how you properly source your work
@@los1945 be literally put on the photos and you can just search up his name
So that house episode with the patient that had a rogue left arm was a lie
Dude that was a TV show
Alien limb syndrome is a real thing, but still. You ought not get your perception of the world from TV.
@@marvalice3455 except the depiction in the show implied the hand that wasnt able to be controlled, was controlled by a separate consciousness; the very same idea that Michael is debunking in this short. Its not a classical depiction of alien hand syndrome; instead it borders on sci-fi.
@@reyis_here945 Yes its a show. But it’s a very apt reference, dont you think? A patient that underwent a brain surgery that separated the two hemispheres of his brain had an uncontrollable hand that seemed to have its own consciousness.
@@meina0614 or and because this is just more plausible... it was just a spasm
You should make a video explaining what it means to take God's name in vain
You we’re better before you became a petty debunker
lol nothing he just said has to do with any gods. Praise evolution and the countless creatures that made us who we are.🎉
He said the soul is a lie due to split brain, this is proven false
Where dose evolution start?
Primordial soup sci-fi
@@Frug4l when you lose part of your brain in an accident... that part stops functioning... practically instantly
How did the primordial organisms develop independent sex organs a create populations? Evolution is BS and not observable or repeatable.
Gazzinga