glad to be a part of that group. i worked at papyrus from 95 to 98 and worked on nascar racing 2 and GPL as a 3d artist. it was my first job in the industry and so grateful to have worked with them! i teach 3d for games now and the students are amazed at the workflow we dealt with way back then... mostly using text files for 3d and manually editing bsp trees and importing and exporting from lightwave
Amazing - thank you for all the long hours you must have put into those games back in the day, many hundreds of thousands loved them - and thank you for commenting on my video :D
Yeah man nice one. I spent so many hours fantasising about driving with the Indy and nascar games, and I genuinely believe the physics model I learnt from the game helped my reality when I finally got to be able to learn to drive for real and then went on to drift - I actually found it all easier in real life!
I worked in the QA dept at this time on Nascar Racing 2 and Indy Car II, PC and Mac. Crazy times. Got REALLY good at driving these tracks. Saw the first 3D cards ever there and we all laughed at the idea of buying a dedicated card for hundreds of dollars just to play games. lol.
@@genericrich no way! i was there probably until 1997 or 8... can't remember :P the 3d artists didn't have the gpus, but i remember looking at one programming developing with them. funny times. now it's not just hundreds for gpus!
@@morganh1066 yeah we left to start a game company with Todd F. and Rick G in 97, I think? Was a great first job out of college. I got the job because I knew how to turn on the Mac and nobody else in QA did. lmao
I also loved Papyrus, I have all their big box games. That copy of the Indy 500 add-on for IndyCar racing is very hard to get. Love your content, keep up the great work.
Thanks for the comment and appreciate you watching! I picked up the add on as it popped up on ebay in Oz a few months back and put in a low bid. Guess I was the only one looking for Indy 500 boxes at the time down under :)
I genuinely think part of the problem with ICR2's sales was the public perception of Indycar had taken a hit. The IRL/CART split... and the insane surge in NASCAR popularity, probably had equally as much to do with the game sales as anything technical.
Great job putting this video together. I love Papyrus. A few months ago I spent some time playing through these old Papyrus titles. It's not hard to setup a G27 to play nicely with these games in DOSbox. Some quick reviews: Indycar Racing is a little too basic in it's handling and the engine feels clunky running at a low framerate. Nascar Racing is fun, but if you even slightly tap the side of an opponent, a full-course yellow will always result which makes for a frustrating experience in a sport that is all about bumping up against other cars in large tightly grouped packs. Indycar Racing II is a game I have great nostalgia for as it was the first real racing sim I played, but it has a weird steering quirk where turning the wheel past a certain point results in the car turning far less than it should, a handling quirk that I just find too frustrating to actually stick with the game when I go back to it. Nascar Racing 2 is where the Papyrus magic all came together. Great physics, sounds, competent AI and flag rules make for a game that I think many modern sim racers can still enjoy. Every game after NR2 is well worth playing. NR3 and the later titles even have detailed force feedback that is comparable (better in some cases) to many modern sim racing titles. All games are install-able on a modern system either through DOSbox or in windows using n-glide and are well worth going back to if you're in the mood.
Really great recap - thanks for taking the time to put that down and I'd agree with it all. After this I gave Nascar 4 a go with my G27 but I need to reduce the rotation in the Logitech software I think. I was having to turn the wheel so much to get the car to turn! I'm really looking forward to how sim racing is going to really grow in the next 10 - 20 years alongside VR headset improvements.
I know right! But then they've gone on to make iRacing which has really driven the adoption of sim racing into a pretty big and well supported niche (along with others)
Great video. I always learn a lot from these. Papyrus games are mentioned quite a bit by people but I never really hear the company mentioned so this one's been interesting. I didn't realise the CD based versions were any different from the disk, other than music maybe, just not something that I thought about. I remember seeing the first Nascar at my friends house, pretty sure that was on disk. I was amazed at the number of cars on track, and the collisions and physics were great fun. Another good video mate.
I had a demo of Nascar Racing 3 in 2000/01. I had never heard of Nascar at that point (uk) it was like no other racing game I'd played at that point in terms of being able to blow the engine, and damage AI cars into retirement. Last week I revisited it finally after 22 years, and was amazed how enjoyable it still is to play.
I grew up buying all the Papyrus Nascar/Indycar version games when they came out. I am surprised that I can still run Nascar Racing 2003 and Grand Prix Legends on my Windows 10 PC. The NR2003 game was always allot fun that I could race offline or by getting on the online Sierra Free Servers. Can you imagine what game levels that Papyrus and Sierra would be at if they were still around today (2024). Each new game back then kept bumping up the sophistication levels. I never went and did IRracing online because of the subscribe monthly fees they asked for. Thanks for the Papyrus history of the games.
Just wanted to add that the first Papyrus Nascar game introduced the possibility of online, multiplayer racing. It was only a beta test, code-named Hawaii, although open to anyone who applied. It worked remarkably well, although it was severely hampered by the fact that it didn't use the internet at all, but required users to dial into Papyrus's server directly through their telephone service, resulting in frequent massive telephone bills for me and many other users. At the time one of the Papyrus developers overseeing the project insisted that racing over the internet would never work because lag and dropped packets would be too severe. Fortunately however, by the time Nascar 2 came out Papyrus had decided they could make online racing over the internet work, and did. It's been a central feature of their products, including as iRacing, ever since.
Thank you for sharing this info. I never knew. I had terrible 56k modem all the way until probably 1999 I think. I never tried multiplayer racing games at that time, Quake 2 was a terrible experience for me. Modern sim racing though is absolutely insane and its amazing to see how far things have come in the last 3 decades. (I'm more of an AMS2 / ACC offline racer).
I'm reading Ken Williams' book about the rise and fall of Sierra. Its interesting to read about his management style and how he still let each company in the group still maintain their creative independence when he was running the company. (Once he left then came the financial issues for the parent group which eventually led to Papyrus being shut down)
Another Papyrus vet checking in. End of GPL through NR2002. Great time working on all the games and the in house GPL league was amazing. DK would usually smoke everyone driving with an old Logitech flightstick.
@@ByteSizeThoughts Thanks for the question! Generally motorsport is not very popular in China,but we started rather early as Zhuhai already held BPR endurance series in 1994, so there's been a cult following since early 90s. Recently as Lynk winning WTCR and Zhou Guanyu getting the first ever F1 seat for China, motorsport is gaining a lot of attention. The most prominent racing series in China should be China Touring Car Championship, it's not big but it's improving all the time. However stock car racing is definitely very very unknown here, so does this game.
@@ByteSizeThoughts Also actually computer gaming of China in 90s and early 00s is actually more or less the same as Western markets, a lot of companies are developing and importing all kinds of single player games and most of them are very well localized yet not censored. Back then the regulation was very lax and that was probably one of the only time when the market was almost identical to the west when it comes to the games that are available. I still have one or two big boxes of PC games.
Yeah keyboard is so hard especially with the AI - but some people were able to do it! We are spoilt these days with the quality of steering wheels - its amazing how far we've come.
glad to be a part of that group. i worked at papyrus from 95 to 98 and worked on nascar racing 2 and GPL as a 3d artist. it was my first job in the industry and so grateful to have worked with them! i teach 3d for games now and the students are amazed at the workflow we dealt with way back then... mostly using text files for 3d and manually editing bsp trees and importing and exporting from lightwave
Amazing - thank you for all the long hours you must have put into those games back in the day, many hundreds of thousands loved them - and thank you for commenting on my video :D
Yeah man nice one. I spent so many hours fantasising about driving with the Indy and nascar games, and I genuinely believe the physics model I learnt from the game helped my reality when I finally got to be able to learn to drive for real and then went on to drift - I actually found it all easier in real life!
I worked in the QA dept at this time on Nascar Racing 2 and Indy Car II, PC and Mac. Crazy times. Got REALLY good at driving these tracks. Saw the first 3D cards ever there and we all laughed at the idea of buying a dedicated card for hundreds of dollars just to play games. lol.
@@genericrich no way! i was there probably until 1997 or 8... can't remember :P the 3d artists didn't have the gpus, but i remember looking at one programming developing with them. funny times. now it's not just hundreds for gpus!
@@morganh1066 yeah we left to start a game company with Todd F. and Rick G in 97, I think? Was a great first job out of college. I got the job because I knew how to turn on the Mac and nobody else in QA did. lmao
I also loved Papyrus, I have all their big box games. That copy of the Indy 500 add-on for IndyCar racing is very hard to get. Love your content, keep up the great work.
Thanks for the comment and appreciate you watching! I picked up the add on as it popped up on ebay in Oz a few months back and put in a low bid. Guess I was the only one looking for Indy 500 boxes at the time down under :)
I genuinely think part of the problem with ICR2's sales was the public perception of Indycar had taken a hit. The IRL/CART split... and the insane surge in NASCAR popularity, probably had equally as much to do with the game sales as anything technical.
Great job putting this video together. I love Papyrus.
A few months ago I spent some time playing through these old Papyrus titles. It's not hard to setup a G27 to play nicely with these games in DOSbox.
Some quick reviews:
Indycar Racing is a little too basic in it's handling and the engine feels clunky running at a low framerate.
Nascar Racing is fun, but if you even slightly tap the side of an opponent, a full-course yellow will always result which makes for a frustrating experience in a sport that is all about bumping up against other cars in large tightly grouped packs.
Indycar Racing II is a game I have great nostalgia for as it was the first real racing sim I played, but it has a weird steering quirk where turning the wheel past a certain point results in the car turning far less than it should, a handling quirk that I just find too frustrating to actually stick with the game when I go back to it.
Nascar Racing 2 is where the Papyrus magic all came together. Great physics, sounds, competent AI and flag rules make for a game that I think many modern sim racers can still enjoy. Every game after NR2 is well worth playing. NR3 and the later titles even have detailed force feedback that is comparable (better in some cases) to many modern sim racing titles. All games are install-able on a modern system either through DOSbox or in windows using n-glide and are well worth going back to if you're in the mood.
Really great recap - thanks for taking the time to put that down and I'd agree with it all. After this I gave Nascar 4 a go with my G27 but I need to reduce the rotation in the Logitech software I think. I was having to turn the wheel so much to get the car to turn! I'm really looking forward to how sim racing is going to really grow in the next 10 - 20 years alongside VR headset improvements.
@@ByteSizeThoughts 360 degrees is a good general setting for older titles.
RIP Papyrus you've created one of the best NASCAR games ever, may you rest in piece, and may Iracing continue your journey!
Thanks for making this. I always thought Papyrus was a top developer and couldn't believe the publisher shut them down, NASCAR licence or not!
I know right! But then they've gone on to make iRacing which has really driven the adoption of sim racing into a pretty big and well supported niche (along with others)
Excellent video, played Nascar racing in 1994 on my PC as a kid, good memories, played the sequel a bit later on. Spent ages on the livery editors.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I've played NR2003 a lot, and it has been carried so much by it now being free and all the modding that has been done for it.
I had Nascar Racing 3 on the PC back then and even looking at it now it was ahead of its time.
Great video. I always learn a lot from these. Papyrus games are mentioned quite a bit by people but I never really hear the company mentioned so this one's been interesting. I didn't realise the CD based versions were any different from the disk, other than music maybe, just not something that I thought about. I remember seeing the first Nascar at my friends house, pretty sure that was on disk. I was amazed at the number of cars on track, and the collisions and physics were great fun. Another good video mate.
6:42 look at that gorgeous manual... i miss when the games were like this 😪
I had a demo of Nascar Racing 3 in 2000/01. I had never heard of Nascar at that point (uk) it was like no other racing game I'd played at that point in terms of being able to blow the engine, and damage AI cars into retirement.
Last week I revisited it finally after 22 years, and was amazed how enjoyable it still is to play.
I grew up buying all the Papyrus Nascar/Indycar version games when they came out. I am surprised that I can still run Nascar Racing 2003 and Grand Prix Legends on my Windows 10 PC. The NR2003 game was always allot fun that I could race offline or by getting on the online Sierra Free Servers.
Can you imagine what game levels that Papyrus and Sierra would be at if they were still around today (2024). Each new game back then kept bumping up the sophistication levels.
I never went and did IRracing online because of the subscribe monthly fees they asked for.
Thanks for the Papyrus history of the games.
Just wanted to add that the first Papyrus Nascar game introduced the possibility of online, multiplayer racing. It was only a beta test, code-named Hawaii, although open to anyone who applied. It worked remarkably well, although it was severely hampered by the fact that it didn't use the internet at all, but required users to dial into Papyrus's server directly through their telephone service, resulting in frequent massive telephone bills for me and many other users. At the time one of the Papyrus developers overseeing the project insisted that racing over the internet would never work because lag and dropped packets would be too severe.
Fortunately however, by the time Nascar 2 came out Papyrus had decided they could make online racing over the internet work, and did. It's been a central feature of their products, including as iRacing, ever since.
Thank you for sharing this info. I never knew. I had terrible 56k modem all the way until probably 1999 I think. I never tried multiplayer racing games at that time, Quake 2 was a terrible experience for me. Modern sim racing though is absolutely insane and its amazing to see how far things have come in the last 3 decades. (I'm more of an AMS2 / ACC offline racer).
Only 1000 views?! How? Great video man, earned a subscriber
Appreciate it!
Way ahead of their time
I'm reading Ken Williams' book about the rise and fall of Sierra. Its interesting to read about his management style and how he still let each company in the group still maintain their creative independence when he was running the company. (Once he left then came the financial issues for the parent group which eventually led to Papyrus being shut down)
Another Papyrus vet checking in. End of GPL through NR2002. Great time working on all the games and the in house GPL league was amazing. DK would usually smoke everyone driving with an old Logitech flightstick.
GPL was (is) tough! I cant imagine playing with a joystick too :D Thanks for sharing the memories - must have been a really cool period for sure.
Every last one of their games were better than anything that ever hit consoles. NR, NR2, NR3, NR2003 Season, etc... All of those games were fantastic.
NASCAR Racing 2002 was officially imported into mainland China, and it was the first ever "simulator" I played.
Thats a cool fact. Is motor racing big in China - are there any home grown series that are popular?
@@ByteSizeThoughts Thanks for the question! Generally motorsport is not very popular in China,but we started rather early as Zhuhai already held BPR endurance series in 1994, so there's been a cult following since early 90s. Recently as Lynk winning WTCR and Zhou Guanyu getting the first ever F1 seat for China, motorsport is gaining a lot of attention. The most prominent racing series in China should be China Touring Car Championship, it's not big but it's improving all the time. However stock car racing is definitely very very unknown here, so does this game.
@@ByteSizeThoughts Also actually computer gaming of China in 90s and early 00s is actually more or less the same as Western markets, a lot of companies are developing and importing all kinds of single player games and most of them are very well localized yet not censored. Back then the regulation was very lax and that was probably one of the only time when the market was almost identical to the west when it comes to the games that are available. I still have one or two big boxes of PC games.
Very interesting. Thank you for giving me some insight! Might check out some Chinese touring car racing if there is some on YT :)
@@ByteSizeThoughts I hope there are some! It's still rather unknown but it's defintiely growing.
This game can use Model Wheel Play?
Played nascar 1 & 2 with a Logitech wingman flight stick. It was brilliant for mastering turns compared to a keyboard 😀
Yeah keyboard is so hard especially with the AI - but some people were able to do it! We are spoilt these days with the quality of steering wheels - its amazing how far we've come.
Hey, have soda offroad, and Nascar 2002, from papyrus too. (Sorry for my very bad english)
Papyrus is still around they created Iracing.
not much like "fall". more like "check out". they became the best, and sold at the top
They brung us nr2003
Nr2003 is still a huge game with tons of free content. You can race every cup
Season from the 60’s until now. Its insane