ไม่สามารถเล่นวิดีโอนี้
ขออภัยในความไม่สะดวก
We Can Only Ban TEN Cards in Commander!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 พ.ค. 2024
- What if the banlist was reset and we could only ban 10 cards??? We go through the tough process of choosing what we would ban!
Buy some amazing cards from Card Kingdom and use this link so they know we sent you!
www.cardkingdom...
Sign up for whatnot using our link and get $15 to spend on whatever you want! whatnot.com/in...
Buy awesome sleeves from Dragon Shield and SAVE 5% using code "nerds" at checkout: dragonshield.c...
Follow us on Moxfield!
www.moxfield.c...
Consider Supporting us via Patreon!
/ nitpickingnerds
Come join our Discord community!
/ discord
Want to send us something cool? We'll open it on stream! Send to:
Mia Largo
PO Box 29372
100 Hartford Ave,
Providence, RI 02909
I want paradox engine unbanned for the simple and very logical reason that I opened one single pack of kaladesh and got the masterpiece version of it lol
Don't think you understand how busted Paradox Engine was... I used to win EVERYTIME turn 2-3, Paradox made endless turns.
So for my win - sure unban it.... but for fun value for all - it NEEDS to be stay banned
@@leagreenall5972 did you miss the blatant sarcasm?
@@zakbrooks7354 Didn't seem very sarcastic... to me it sounded like he wanted it unbanned not for anything to do with playing it, but because he has a Kaladesh copy and wanted the value to rise....
@@leagreenall5972 The OP literally threw a 'lol' in, do you think it means 'lots of love'? Do you really think Paradox Engine would displace Thassa's Oracle as the best win con in cEDH if it was unbanned? If not it's a really weird thing to argue 'power level' when much stronger win cons exist and are 'fine', the issue is and was that the card isn't fun to play with/against in the opinion of the RC, not that it's 'too busted'.
@@mightyone3737 He never mentioned playability but all about value of the card.... the 'lol' could have been a deprecating lol...
Reality is chief; at the time Paradox Engine was totally abused in nearly every winning tournament deck, not to mention that once it was out, a turn took ridiculously long... it was the whole package; people were not enjoying the game, and turns took forever. It has nothing to do with comparing cEDH decks it was in virtually every deck and THATS why MTG banned it... Oracle is no where near in every winning deck - or deck at all - needed blue - Engine didn't need any colour....
Mightyone you are not if you don't understand that.
Most people dont think right about sol ring. Without these many reprints this card would cost like 100$ +.
They already have that, its called Mana Crypt lol
imo sol rign and mana crypt are genuinely better than black lotus in most situations. i know in vintage cube, people typically prioritize sol ring over moxen and lotus. it's crazy.
I 100% agree with Mia, Lutri truly is the most otterly free-roll thing in any deck that can run Izzet.
Legit the only reason you wouldn't run it is because you don't run ANY instants/sorceries. Any deck that has some amount of instants/sorceries would play just cuz why would t you if you could for free
@@zakbrooks7354 You should run it even then as there simply isn't a downside to having access to this 3 Mana 3/2 body.
@@zakbrooks7354 i mean for one it takes up a card slot that could be something other than a six mana fork
to be clear i think a lot of people would run it but i also think they'd quickly cut it for something with more impact
@@zakbrooks7354Even then, it's a free body. It could be a vanilla 1/1 for 8 mana, and it would still be the objectively correct choice to always run it.
@@AlienCowThatMoos you know what fair. Free value is free value, even if it's terrible, not saying that Lutri is terriblw
lol at any world where you would ban Ancient Tomb before Tolarian Academy.
Because this card was banned early on, even when it first came out, most players have no idea how broken it is.
Yeah, all the "tap, add equal to number of _ you control" are so busted
EDH has become more creature focused - and CEDH for that matter - so banning Academy but leaving Cradle around makes no sense at all to me. Also, on a personal note I wouldn’t mind if my Academy jumped to like $900. 😉
@@beckpemberton4455green is much worse than blue, that’s why cradle isn’t banned
Paradox Engine allowed me to accidentally go infinite. I didn’t even intend to.
Is it accidental
It literally just says "oh you played the game? Nice have mana for anything"
@@votedthatoneguy It was my first game of Commander.
Mad respect for Mia’s favorite cards being Rise of the Dark Realms, Breach the Multiverse, and Last March of the Ents. Big Timmy spells ftw!
Now I kinda want to do Conspiracy Commander. 😂
Grab a bunch of Conspiracy cards and draft them before the game.
I'd be cool with someone playing conspiracy cards. People already rule 0 in stuff anyway.
Another thing wrong with Humility is that it is one of the most complicated cards in the game. Learn an ad hoc layers system that at times seems very counter-intuitive. Combining humility with other continuous effects is essentially a judge exam
I know you said not to ask about specific cards, butttttt
Trade Secrets?!?!?!
It is wild to me that the RC chooses to ban things as signposts of "this is not the kind of game we want to foster for Commander", yet Armageddon is still treated with the "your play group should be able to rule zero this" kid gloves.
I swear they used to be a lot harsher with bans than they are nowadays. Some of the stuff we have now SHOULD be banned, but isn't because "rule 0 exists so it's up to your playgroup"
Tbh the banlist is fine as is, you guys be overreacting to sol ring and Armageddon n shit
@@archdruidman3493 I don't play a ton of 4-way commander games and I think in those games, Sol-Ring is really strong but it's also a risk to be the first out of the gate. I play more 1v1 commander games because that's how the dice are roling currently and there Sol-Ring is completely miserable so I took it out of my decks. Whoever has it -> 95% win-chance. So yeah, doesn't need to be banned but I think people should stop just jamming Sol-Ring into every single deck and consider what powerlevel they're aiming for with each individual deck.
@@paulszki sure, and sol ring in 1v1 is massively different than multiplayer, but the format isn’t designed to be 1v1, and the ban list currently reflects that pretty well. And as for stop jamming sol ring into everything, I kind of agree, people should think about what power level they are playing at or trying to play at and build the deck around that level
In 10 years of playing commander I have NEVER seen anybody cast a world purge
I was in a game that your mom cast Worldpurge. 😂
Lol I used to play world purge combo as my win Con. O ring, Barren Glory, world purge. Super janky I loved it
sol ring is pretty controversial. i think it obviously is very powerful, but powerful cards make the game fun
Field of the Dead x10
(For anyone oblivious, no, I don't care about FotD and am just trolling Beezy's deckbuilding)
I would quit 😭
Cool video! Here is my take:
Black Lotus
Time Walk
Ancestral Recall
Fastbond
Sol Ring
Hullbreacher
Tolarian Academy
Balance
Winter Orb
Expropriate
I think the biggest card I would point out to consider for your lists is Time Walk. Time Walk is considered the strongest card in vintage cube by many pros, with minimal build around, recycling Time Walks just ends games. It’s so undercosted. Also, as many others have commented, Tolarian Academy is absolutely busted.
There are other “pet dislike” cards I have like Leovold, Rhystic Study, and Smothering Tithe, but I wouldn’t ban those with only 10 picks.
I was very surprised time walk missed these lists. When I played Arena after then made that idiotic card that shuffled the power 9 into your deck, I quickly learned that time walk was the most dangerous card of the 9.
@@doktarr the number of games Luis Scott Vargas and Caleb Gannon have won in Vintage Cube leagues due to Time Wall is real.
Sway of the stars is chaos, why is it banned? No idea, worldfire/warpworld/thievesauction are all legal and do pretty much the same or worse
I don't think sway of the stars has any reasonable argument for being one of the 10 cards you ban if you're held to 10.
- It slows the game down, but not horribly so as 7 life means the game will end from regular combat reasonably soon. Many board wipes or stax pieces are at least as bad.
- It's actually a terrible competitive card that won't get played very much anyway. It's almost the pure opposite of a free roll.
- decks that care about cards in exile (say, Umbris or Mairsil) can actually benefit strongly from resetting the game while keeping a bunch of cards in exile. It's still a bad strategy (see the previous point) but if someone wants to try to pull it off I say more power to them.
tl;dr I would keep it banned if I had total control of the ban list with no limitations, but it's nowhere near my top 10
12:01 I’ve played an Academy Paradox Engine combo deck in Canadian Highlander and YEP. Keep that card OFF the table
Black Lotus would just play like a Jeweled Lotus 99% of the time.
My list: Rhystic Study, Dockside, Tolarian Academy, Channel, Balance, Karakas, Time Vault, SHAHRAZAD, Trade Secrets, Limited Resources.
Fast mana is the easiest thing to rule 0, all you have to say is "are we playing fast mana? yes/no" and it's done.
Sway of the stars can be comboed with Teferis Protection or like a board temporary exile effect to wipe eveyone elses resources and life total thrn swing out next turn. Seems like an interesting and valid strategy to have as a wincon at 10 mana.
Or you could just Balance plus Tef’s Protection. 😂
@@crawdaddy2004it is balanced it exiles
@@Dark-Pikachu1Balance is a white card. It makes everyone go down to the lowest of everything, that being zero things on board thanks to none of your stuff "existing" atp
Mine are as follows.
1. Black Lotus
2. Sol Ring
3. Mana Crypt
4. Dockside
5. Time Vault
6. Lutri
7. Karakas
8. Trade Secrets
9. Ancestral Recall
10. Time Walk
The most free roll includes in the format, minus Time Vault which is just kinda fucked
Id add prophet of kruphix maybe swap out time vault since it is just a combo card. Prophet wins games in a slow but surefire way. Especialy with multiple players who have it.
@@imGrisky You have it backwards imo. Prophet is just a big value creature, but Time Vault would be THE combo. That plus a key is easy, cheap infinite that is colorless and not difficult at all to search.
Old School 93/94 allows both Falling Star and Chaos Orb. Dexterity for the disabled issued aside, it works because of very special errata that makes it function. I will say it's really really fun to have in that format, but I wouldn't suggest it should be allowed anywhere else.
The problem with the OG Moxes being on color is that decks with more colors, which are already more powerful, get access to more of them. That's a huge problem because if you think Mana Crypt is an issue, try games where you start with multiple on-color sources. It pushes people to play 4- and 5- color decks even more than this already happens at high levels; essentially, anything 3-colors or less would not be playable at high power because you'd be at a major disadvantage. Being mono-colored would put you down 3 pieces of fast mana compared to 4-color decks.
okay i was talking about this with my girlfriend the otter day and i actually don't think lutri needs to be banned under the new companion rule? like absolutely when she was just an extra card in your hand but that's so much mana investment, i don't think she'd be an auto-include at all. your deck has to want forks so badly that you're willing to severely overpay to guarantee you get one.
It's an auto include because you can run it almost anywhere, it doesn't matter how much it costs. Only reason you wouldn't have it in URx decks is that you didn't own one.
@@aldotrioksidi i'd actually not seen the ruling that it doesn't count toward your card limit which is what i'd previously understood
on analysis i still don't agree with it being banned in '10 banned cards total' commander by default because for example i think golos needs to be banned more
@@cerebraliskEven if it counted toward your card limit, you'd STILL run it because reducing your deck size is ALWAYS ideal. Consistency is king.
@@davidrosenberg9615 a lot of people that talk about Lutri don't seem to understand that it doesn't take up a card slot, and I feel like that has a lot to do with how many people defend it
@@cerebralisk I agree. The two obvious cards to remain banned are Prophet of Kruphix and Golos, thinking that they would be legal makes me shudder.
Sweet! Lets put sol ring in every precon then after the fact reimagine the banned list and make every precon that has already existed have a banned card! Sol ring is not an auto win. A large accumulation of fast mana in the early turns can make an insurmountable win but it isnt guaranteed.
Chaos orb is cool tho! I like that it is weird.
Edit it’s also the first colorless removal spell and a foot isn’t that tall red couldn’t remove enchantments so I think it serves a purpose
I have never seen a game where sol ring didn't generate some amount of salt. The card needs to go. It only creates a toxic and unbalanced experience.
If a player gets sol ring and the rest don't, either someone at the table has to go -1 on their interaction just to get rid of the sol ring, putting the player who had it back.. to an even playing field? If no one gets rid of it, that player just sky rockets ahead and needs focused. There are no winners when that card hits the field turn 1-2.
Did you compare lists prior to filming? I would enjoy watching each other's initial reactions to your ban lists.
Surprised Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary didn’t make the list.
Banning sol ring is wild. Do you, though.
In my old playgroup, we ruled 0 that sol ring would tap for one colorless. It was much more balanced, specially on turn 1
I don't think you can do just a ten card ban list on commander. One card both of you missed that is as broken as mana crypt or lotus is Tolarian Academy. If you are keeping the moxes unbanned, you have to ban it unless you want the fastest Commander format ever. Academy is all that and a bag of chips, and needs to stay banned. I think my list is forty or so cards.
1. 8 of the 9 power nine. Time Twister is fine.
9. Demonic Consultation
10. Tolarian Academy
11. Dockside Extortionist
12. Hullbreacher
13. Sharazad
14. Humility
15. Sway of the Stars
16. Fastbond
17. Channel
18. Balance
19. Lutri, The Spellchaser
20. Mana Crypt
21. Time Vault
22. Upheaval
23. Underworld Breach or Lion's Eye Diamond
24, Smothering Tithe
25. Rhystic Study
26. Karakas
27. Biorhythm
28. Tainted Pact
29 Through 34 The Commander Free Spells.
35. Library of Alexandria
36. Yawgmoth's Bargain
37. Griselbrand
38. Iona, Shield of Emeria
39. Worldpurge
40. Ancient Tomb
41. Primeval Titan
42. Prophet of Kruphix
I don't think people would disagree with this list. It would slow the game down quite a bit, and I don't think anyone could question the power in those cards. A lot of powerful cards still exist, and there are a few I could argue against, but I think this is a solid list and most would agree. I could make an argument for more cards, but these are the most unfun and the cards that speed up the format the fastest. I think there would be a lot more diversity in CEDH without some of these, Sol Ring could easily be card 43 and a 44th could the other between breach and Diamond on my list needs to go too. But I think all of the cards I have on this list are the worse offenders.
Did you put gaeas cratle somewhere?
@@leonfriedemann9151 Tbh, Cradle is nowhere near as strong as the cards on that list. It's a powerful card. Played against back in the standard it was legal in. It requires creatures. It's fast, but even at its fastest it actually requires more work than most of the cards on here.
…staples of cedh do not need to be banned. They are called staples for a reason. Banning such staples would result in a large depowering of the format to an extent to which you would just be playing high powered commander instead of cedh. Banning hallmarks of a format will most likely lead to that format dying
@@archdruidman3493 well here's the thing. You could divide CEDH and EDH with this list. These cards all speed the game up or are just unfun (Sway of the Stars etc) That said, this is a personal opinion, but with all those cards in play, it make CEDH play the same way. It all leads to thoracle on some level or a similar win. That's my opinion. It's a casual game at heart. I rather encourage a casual experience over a competitive one. And, to be honest, CEDH would be much more interesting if you killed the staples and forced a new experience. That said, I do think for CEDH you can have a separate list. But these cards are hard to argue for casual at all.
This girl just argued sol ring is stronger than channel. Damn I used to respect these guys opinions
Sol ring is an autoinclude in all decks of all colors
@Tijikiotec it doesn't immediately win the game on turn 2
@@jonathangitter1311 You're absolutely right. NPN has went too far into the realm of "sol ring bad...urgh me no like fast mana" and, yet, allowed all 5 OG moxes, channel, mox diamond, chrome mox, etc - they literally have no idea what they're talking about - just watch no ban list cEDH to get an idea of what's ACTUALLY good (fyi, black lotus, the 5 og moxes, griselbrand, time vault, time walk, ancestral recall).
Jesus this channel...
@@jonathangitter1311 What got me was the discussion that Eldrazi are the big problems after a Channel.....
@@rodgerlang884 yeah that was goofy too
how could you leave out THIS!?
I've been cutting Sol Rings the last couple of month, It's been a fun to find a replacement that suits the flavor of my deck better.
Mia vastly overestimates what a free role is. Also if your gonna ban sway of the stars you needa ban bio rhythm world fire and collation victory
Coalition victory and worldfire I'll give you, but why biorythm? I sincerely don't see how it's any worse than Craterhoof
@@zakbrooks7354 if you banning cards that invalidate the game bio rhythm can do just that
Also, the assumption that "it had nothing to say what you did in the game so far" is just utterly wrong. It's as easy as just Plotting a card (or make a Chandra ping emblem in case of Worldfire). These cards are expensive wincons if played correctly.
1. Worldfire
2. Sway the Stars
3. Decree of annihilation
4. Limited Resources
5. Fastbond
6. John Avon Plains
7. John Avon Island
8. John Avon Swamp
9. John Avon Mountain
10. John Avon Forest.
I honestly don't think too much needs to be banned, The first 3 are all similar to Shaharazad to me, the 2 enchantments are just unfun in commander. The 5 Lands are there because I don't think anything else needs to be banned in a world with a rule 0.... and it will likely soft ban the "that guy" in my game store because he would be the most likely to abuse everything I left off the banlist, because they are his favorite basics.
I'm pretty sure that if yiure capable of shuffling a deck, you possess the physical dexterity to flip and Chaos Orb or Falling Star. They really need a better excuse for that ban. Yorion as well.
I made a top 15 to have a different take. past top 10 Ancestral Recall and Tolarian Academy needs to be banned to allow people to consider more commanders as an option.
Tolarian Academy
Upheaval
Sway of the Stars
Time Vault
Black Lotus
Karakas
Fastbond
Channel
Lutri, the Spellchaser
Paradox Engine
Hullbreacher
Time Vault
Trade Secrets
Ancestral Recall
Limited Resources
Mostly agree, although I would say ancestral recall is probably the most unhinged card from the power 9, and should probably be banned over sway the stars, as no sane individual is likely to put it in their deck (similarly to Armageddon) as it does not win games. Unlike recall, which is one of the easiest auto includes with the only conditions being that you have access to blue, want to play cards, and produce at least one mana.
When it comes to the moxen of the power 9, taking note from vintage, all moxen are run, even if they do not make colors of the deck they are played in, thus, even a 5 color deck should probably run them instead of the single color lands they would play, assuming you just want more mana.
17:14 Also Time Vault at least ends the game. As long as the opponent has a Commander that is at least a 2/2, it is deterministic. You don’t have to play it out.
They left out the silver boarder and infinity sets
I assume Worldpurge isn’t banned because the caster is the most impacted by it.
I am not a magic pro but is lutri also banned as a commander or in the 99? I get that having a companion is strong and too consistent, but in the 99, it's nothing more than your copy spell stuff.
Am I missing something else?
They unfortunately removed the banned as commander rule a while back so if something is banned it’s just banned regardless of where it’s in the deck. Like lutri as a commander would be fine, it’s not banned for power levels it’s banned purely for not working with the commander format
@@yoyoguy1st Thank you for the explanations. While I get that having a unique ban list simplifies the building experience, it's a bit sad to see mid tier cards banned because of some particular ways of abuse.
My Lutri will never have a home in commander and that's too bad.
Why can't lutri just be banned as a companion?
thats a fairly rule zeroable thing. i feel like most people would be fine with you using lutri as a commander or in the 99 if you just asked them
Because the rules committee thinks we're idiots and "banned as" is too complicated....
Channel and limited resources are maybe the most bannable cards 😂
Yeah, Limited Resources was a huge oversight
Storm Crow needs to go. It's an insta win that comes down way too early (even before your playgroup meets) and it dodges any sort of interaction from your opponents. Hell I saw one literally stand up on its own and beat it's own commander to death.
Completely agree can’t believe we forgot. Channel is falling off hard
I wouldn’t ban old cards that are very rare and expensive if I did this exercise. I would simply assume that scarcity would make these less played.
14:28 ok counter point I cast Teferi's Protection before it resolves and I would play upheaval with that combo too
I dont run sol ring in my Marwyn list because my deck is very pip hungry which is probably wrong but i like not running it
Don't think people understand how busted Paradox Engine was... I used to win EVERYTIME turn 2-3, Paradox made endless turns.
So for my win - sure unban it.... but for fun value for all - it NEEDS to be stay banned
“Nobody wants xyz” no one wants their commander countered either, but you can’t ban everything. Nobody wants a lot of things, your deck shouldn’t just be built to do the thing you want it to do, there’s 3 other players trying to do their thing to. Some might want to play group hug, or make 20 copies of their commander with “legend rule doesn’t apply” or put 45 rats in their deck because it can contain any number of rats. I saw a guy make a deck with 97 lands that was topping charts…
Commander is a meme game where the outcome is almost completely random due to the solo card, huge deck, 4 player format. I understand Rule Zero ban lists for your playgroup, but ban lists otherwise are just silly. Very quickly playgroups will stop playing with people who take infinite turns or reset games. No reason to talk about it.
Not including Thassa’s oracle is crazy, I bet you both play it.
4:47
Honestly, my 10
1. Paradox engine
2. Mana crypt
3. Mox sapphire
4. Mox emerald
5. Mox Jet
6. Channel
7. Ancestral recall
8. Lutri
9. Time vault
10. Karakas
The colored free rocks are actually more parasitic as they greatly homogenize into 5 color decks. I couldnt get them all but hitting more than half helps suppress the issue. The first two are definitely a personal beef, mana crypt is the problem people think sol ring is. I don't mind sol ring, its deep in the game culture. Banning it disenfranchises newer players who would possibly buy now illegal precons or who cannot afford the pricier mana rocks. Mana crypt on the other hand is sol ring but free and between stacking with sol ring and giving 3 mana turn 1 makes it such an issue.
My first non precon, I won with Limited Resources with new players. I thought...damn this is strong. Oh shit, it is banned. We all had a laugh.
One thing i sometimes think about with karakas is: would it still be broken if it only bouned your legendarys? And if so would sorcery speed fix it?
It’d still be broke even if it was your own, it lets you protect your commander and if it’s something with an ETB you can abuse that. Sorcery speed would make it better but even then would be pretty busted. Karakas is just a card that doesn’t play well with commander as a format.
I disagree with sol ring banning. At some point power creep is going to happen. If you ban sol ring, the next strongest thing will be used in every deck. Rinse and repeat. You shouldn’t only include powerful cards that are $$$ restrictive to play.
Every blue deck can play Minamo, School at Water’s edge and should in commander. The price is what’s holding it back. Budget players need a way to compete and sol ring is a decent way for “cheap decks” to feel high end.
What you’re really saying is “high power artifacts shouldn’t exist” - which is… weird. In that way you should also ban lightning greaves, lavaspur, isochron, etc
If they banned dockside and thoracle it is a totally different format. Throw in limited resources and make the rest of this a free for all.
This made it very clear to me that the ban list should be longer lol I’d actually love to see a top 25 ban list from NN!
If I owned a mana crypt I'd pull sol ring out of my demons and run it in there, cause of Rowan and other life loss stagedies
All the reserved cards need a ban or a reprint. But also free my man Griselbanned
This is a suuuuuper fun concept yall. Look forward to tuning in every day! we need some B U D G E T B O M B S
I honestly want no bans at all and just a pregame rule zero talk
I'm still so sad about my Emrakul deck being banned 😭 it's been years and I'm still upset
Got some sleeves yesterday for the cube from dragonshield! Gotta get Amber that tuiton money.
Black lotus is safe for unban, but trade secret is mandatory !!!
Tinker is beyond busted.
and Tolarian Academy. These lists are.....odd....
oh god guys, we missed time walk and ancestral recall
4:47
I'm surprised that Cyclonic Rift wasn't mentioned. I'm pretty sure that the only reason why this card isnt banned is it's price.
The idea for their banlists are for "unfun, invalidating cards." Cyclonic Rift is definitely unfun, but it's usually dropped as a way to win. If you are doing a one-sided board wipe, you are most likely able to push for the win. If you aren't, well.. sounds like a pilot issue.
With naru meha and dualcaster mage having a third isnt that horrible tbh what if lutri was only in the commandzone?
why does the mtgo time vault art look AI generated. like no part of the art looks like anything.
Props for not only banning Sol Ring but Crypt as well. I know you said you can’t factor in price but it would really suck to have a cheap and powerful card like Sol Ring banned but not Tomb or Crypt. My fear with fast mana is only the rich kids having access to it. The thing about Sol Ring that everyone always brings up as a negative is that it’s everywhere. I think that’s more of a positive because it become indistinguishable from a land at that point. “When everyone’s super, no one will be.” That being said again, if we must ban Sol Ring, I’d prefer an all or nothing approach. If we really want to say fuck it to fast mana get rid of all of it.
Otherwise I like your banlists. I miss Emrakul and Griselbrand. I’m curious how many people would abuse Painter’s Servant and Iona. Hopefully people would self regulate.
I dont think there should be a banlist to be honest, like there is not really a reason for cards to be banned. Fun is subjective so a ban list based on how fun or include a card is doesn't make sense.
I think I'd focus more on the popular combo pieces than fast mana. Fast mana sure makes things turbo-ey but there can still be a lot of diversity in those decks whereas instant wins and cheap infinite combos are way less diverse. I would rather remove yawgmoths will and/or Underworld breach or isochron scepter, or thassas Oracle, I'd want a ban list to generate diversity in cards that feel like they matter more in deck construction than mana rocks and removing some of the insanity of the most popular combos also would change the competitive game to be more diverse.
The way I see it, popular combos tend to stay up.ij cedh for the most part while powerful rocks tend to drift out and cause issues. Mana crypt for example has no place outside cedh in my book.
@alphathewolf583 I guess it just depends on where you play. Most of the people at my lgs are playing 8s and we all use mana acceleration and have at least a couple combos in the decks. Tbh mana acceleration just helps move the game along more than anything. I prefer to have a game done turn 8 or so and reshuffle to play again than go for 13 plus turns. Mana acceleration being "too samey" is kinda a dumb thought when things like arcane Signet and other rocks are in every deck too but nobody complains. That and ever since 30th anniversary edition came out people stopped caring about proxies. I own 1 mana Crypt and I proxy it in my other high power decks and it works out fine.
Is beezy gonna comment about the new field of the dead on a stick the necrobloom 😂?
I agree that the game wouldn't revolve around prime time... but it would revolve around Sylvan primordial
I strongly agree with Sol Ring being banned. It's been a year since I cut out sol ring from all my decks, and the average play pattern of my decks is less explosive/unstoppable like it was before when I started with Sol Ring Turn 1 followed by a 2 mana mana rock or even alone. My playgroup did the same and the games are more enjoyable for everyone in our opinion:)
So banned CEDH as format as well i don’t think is popular Decision
So banned CEDH very popular Decision there
but black lotus is banned in commander, I don't understand why they mention it
They're talking about if no cards were banned, what 10 cards they would choose to ban
I do this but with like 50 cards rule 0 is the best
Sol Ring has only one purpose: making games worse. No game has ever been made better by anyone playing Sol Ring. It can ONLY make your games worse.
Seems like it’s high time to just separate EDH and CEDH into different formats, similar to how we already regard Vintage and Modern. CEDH should have its own ban-list. Just sayin.
If it was up to me to change the banlist, I'd probably add about 200 cards to the current one (sidenote there are like 30 legal mass landdestruction cards, so that number is not as ridiculus as it seems).
I disagree with the sol ring ban. If you draw it turn ten, it’s almost a dead card. I would ban cards like Channel, expropriate, mindslaver. Fast mana I have no problem with. If it makes your strategy go faster without breaking it, then it should be part of the game. Also, banning sol ring to me seems like gatekeeping. 100% of precons run sol ring, so a new player can’t play the game without having that conversation that their deck is illegal.
I don't use sol ring in obuum and a few other decks
As long as you're not banning Krenko, Mob Boss anything on your list is fair game.
You didn't mention silver bordered cards at the beginning
I'm pretty sure silver borders aren't banned, so much as they aren't playable
I can agree with those lists. Hate fast mana that can effectively decide a winner from turn 1 with the right opening hand, and cards that effectively reset the game are just not fun to experience. They are like opposite ends of how long I like a commander game to go for, from turn-5 wins to 3-hour grindfests.
A 3-hour grindfest sounds horrible if it's every game
to be fair you cant hate fast mana if its based off luck just because the cards are in the deck doesn't mean they are guaranteed to start the game with it I have jeweled lotus and mana crypt in my decks but i think my past 10 games i was able to cast one of them twice never at the same time. but this is also why rule zero exists. I ask do you run sol ring because that is a fast mana but the part of magic i believe everyone loves is that there would be interaction so as a table there is a constant of checks and balances. in the end it would really really on everybody's threat assessments
I sometimes choose to wait to play sol ring until turns 3-4 to keep other players off my back. Usually still works out well.
The only thing I have to say about banning Sol Ring, is that if it gets banned, *all* the zero cost $$$ fast mana has to go, too.
Otherwise, you’re just pandering to enfranchised players, and that should be reflexively avoided.
Have you considered Library of Alexandria?
Paradox engine is so much weaker than stuff like dockside and thassa’s oracle , and it would also be a lot worse if you banned the fast mana like sol ring and mana crypt
I agree with humility I got overwhelming splendor and I just scooped cus someone just didn't want me to play the game. They just wanted to play solitaire
Someone once world purged after they knocked me out early in a game for some reason, a day where I barerly got to play at all, and that actually got me pretty tilted.
Edit: I am not gonna sit there for an additional 2 ish hours not doing anything while they continue playing.
Sway of stars is 10 MANA!
that's very perceptive of you
I think that there is too much hate on mana ramp here......
Nah
I’d probably ban any card that creates a 2 card instant win con by or before turn 4. Those games just always make me feel like I lost before I could even get started.
Worldgorger Dragon, Lotus Petal, Spirit Guides, Mox Opal, Helm of Obedience, Painter’s Servant, Ancient Tomb, Underworld Breach, Thassa’s Oracle, Grim Monolith, Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, Earthcraft, Devoted Druid, Kiki-Jiki, Splinter Twin, Zirda, Rings of Brighthearth?
@@crawdaddy2004 All those. Especially Thassa's Oracle based on my personal experiences against it. It felt so soulless and hollow the first time I lost to one. Not one other player in that game was in Blue either.
When a card can just win on the spot so early and nobody can stop it because nobody has a Counterspell it just feels so hopeless, and makes my efforts to that point feel invalidated.
@@shadowmyst9661 Despite ultimately disagreeing with you, I do appreciate your consistency.
Anyone that says Paradox Engine should be unbanned has never played it/against it. Dunno about the other 10, but PE should 100% be banned.
I unashamedly play ravages of war and Armageddon. People get so bent out of shape about me playing the way I like to play my game, when I don't complain at all about the shit that they do that I think is completely busted? I just think it's unfair when people try to rule zero a card they don't because it denies resources, when no one bats an eyelash at other plays that are seen as "slightly" less toxic. So what you built a base and no army, and I built a small base and small army, then blew up all our bases and send my army to attack you. That seems like a basic tactic in RTS games that people use.
Honestly, I think its fine when you know its a possibility. I have a deck with 2 land wipes and I will tip people off that it can happen. Peeps less salty when they consented to that play pattern.
Are you actually winning the game with these or are you just making the game last another hour? If you’re doing avacyn + wipe everything sure it’s a win combo, if you’re playing land destruction for the sake of playing land destruction then you are cringe.
@@yoyoguy1st I play cards that I think advance my board state and win me games. That being said, Armageddon doesn't have to straight up win me the game the turn I play it. Grand arbiter in play with a few other creatures puts me far enough ahead to wipe the lands. Armageddon does not say win the game, so it'll never outright win you the game, because 99.9% of the time an opponent can respond to it, unless you have a grand arbiter, which is hated off the table as soon as you play it, normally. I don't care if people think it's cringe. My motto in games, "I'm not having any fun, unless you're not having any fun"
@@yoyoguy1st I run land wipes in Roxxanne because my mana is mostly a pile of meteorites so i stay on top with immense mana to kill things
Paradox Engine with Stella Lee 😮😢
Ngl I dislike y’all agenda against sol ring lol. I’m a fairly new player for almost 5 years and sol ring is one of those cards that I draw into or have in my starting hand it just feels good.
but that's the exact problem with it. It's too good and too game warping when you pull it early in the game and completely changes how the game is played....
I think sol ring seems more oppressive because people mulligan till they see one, im lucky if i play a sol ring before turn 5 1 out of like 20 games
With the power creep happening at the rate it is, sol ring becomes more and more ban worthy
You shouldn’t ban Sol Ring without also banning Crypt.