The protocol on approach is to assign an approach and get a single read back containing the call sign, runway assigned, and specific approach in a single transmission. There is no such thing as progressive approach clearance.
Dunno man sounded like the pilot read back the callsign on the clearance then the controller didn’t acknowledge his call but rather read back the clearance again at which point the pilot was like wtf mate.
@@Lukeduke7773the last call the pilot did read back the callsign. The reason the controller repeated it was because even though the pilot read back the callsign, he never read back the runway assignment. You must readback everything with your callsign. You might be able to get away with abbreviated version at smaller airports, but if that pilot goes to runway 25 instead of 26 and the controller never checks the pilots readback, then that’s the controllers ass.
I’d love to force ATC to say PHX APP, after every transmission. It is a lie that you can’t recognize a voice after they have already given their call sign. Their voice after that point becomes their call sign. Government workers only care about one thing: keeping their jobs.
Just about 4 hours ago I was landing at PHX and the approach controller cleared me to a lower altitude, assigned a heading, speed and cleared me for the visual for 26. I read it all back and forgot to say the runway assignment. She checked to verify my landing clearance. I apologized and read the clearance back properly. I didn't get all triggered and I didn't end up with a phone number. Hmm...
@@SidewaysEightSix I don't know if that is a true statement. When I cinch up my necktie and walk out my front door, I go into pilot mode. I get home, take the tie off and go back to being the goofball I've always been. Haha
I also got a slight reprimand from Phoenix Approach back a few years ago for not acknowledging my call sign after read back. since then I have never forgotten my call sign after read back. Phoenix controllers are a bit hard, but I'm glad for they keep us safe when in there control. Thank you PHX.
Does your callsign change with each flight? If so, I feel like it could get confusing having different call signs every flight. "Delta 15....err oops that was my last flight, Delta 1725."
Heard this audio awhile back, glad you have the longer version (with Tower's exchange). I can't imagine the other pilot working in the cockpit at that instance. Now they both have to file paper work and call the number... The proper ATC radio communication is even longer than what is mentioned here. In the real world, a lot of abbreviations and non conformance exist to save time. But what the ATC is asking here is quite reasonable. 1) you don't want the wrong a/c reading back, especially if there are multiple a/c with similar call signs or flight numbers. 2) you don't want the correct a/c landing into the wrong parallel runway, which PHX has 3) no matter how righteous the pilot feels, they should be able to control their emotions and carry on their day.
one thing for sure, don't ever mess up with people who are meant to keep your safety in the air... i just remember atc - pilot conversation in new york (with aer lingus i believe), and the atc just made that plane turned in circle because that plane wanted to fly to direct waypoint, instead of the traffic at that time...
I totally get it, it stings to get called out when you mess up. It's embarrassing but you suck it up and do better next time. (Now, I was a submariner and we can be an arrogant bunch--but we pale in comparison to aviators haha.)
Jesus, I'm a lowly private pilot (1k hours), generally know radio etiquette, and that guys' radio skills sucked. And, he was just rude. He screwed up - sucked it up, acknowledge the issue, and move on. Details matter bigly.
@williamfrank7565 Rather be a Rude ATC than a polite ATC that has a fatal occurrence on his record. These are Alpha Dogs so hurt feelings are for sissy’s
American 1479- you’re a highly paid professional flight crew! You know the rules and the proper phraseology which has been established with the blood of others that have crashed. Read back all ATC instructions and runway assignments with your call sign! Get with the program and stop being so snooty!
Trying to use jealousy to bait the incompetent pilot. Not the correct use of radio. Gas lighting ATC baiting an incompetent pilot on frequency. Noone comes out this looking professional.
I’m a retired controller with 40 years in Tower, TRACON, and Center. I also hold an Airline Transport Pilot Certificate. Luckily these situations are very rare, I only had problems a few times with pilots. Proper phraseology is imperative to a safe ATC system.
I'm PPC holder (50 hours of instrument). I'm in the Controller's corner here. Pilots should be reading back their call signs to eliminate any ambiguity, it only takes an extra second. In the pilot's defense though, he wasn't trying to be lazy. He was just trying to abbreviate his transmissions to keep the frequency clear. But his attitude upon being chided by ATC was unprofessional.
The pommie American 1479 pilot was in the wrong. As many egotistical creatures do they don't accept responsibility for their actions but instead shift blame elsewhere. The pommie pilot shifted blame and acted like a complete jockstrap. All this while he was the custodian of passengers and crew in a dangerous situation - flying. This is how people get killed because of creatures like him.
I don't think it was that he corrected, but how he was correcting him. All supportive for air traffic control, but that was unprofessional for both sides.
@@RLTtizME I am an airline pilot and his attitude was petulant and unprofessional. So, I was shocked as well that his ego got the best of him and probably conceded him a meeting with the American Phoenix hub chief pilot.
Huh? What about the other pilot who was reading back correctly and without sass? Do you even know who was flying? I feel bad for the other pilot he got dragged into this stupid situation instead of just going home or to his next flight.
@@gotacallfromvishal It was the captain having the hissy fit. The voice changed during taxi because First Officer's handle the ground communications. The First Officer was flying, and the immature captain was the one messing up the ATC communications.
@@gotacallfromvishal Of course not, but SOP for most airlines is for the F/O to handle ground communications. It’s rare in the U. S. for the Captain to perform that function.
Seeing a lot of videos from various creators lately with pilots being extremely rude and unprofessional with controllers. As a pilot building hours toward my commercial, all I gotta say is: If you're that unhappy with your jobs, I'll trade you any day. You're flying an airplane for a living. Smile. You've got the coolest job in the world.
It seems that way when your working up. But it’s still a job at the end of the day. Usually the stuff around the getting to fly a plane is what drags on you over time. The “Getting to fly a plane for money” tends to undermine getting real QoL in the rest of the job.
I'm a pilot who does not understand why this "pilot" of American 1479 can't get it through his thick head that ATC only wants to help him, his passengers, people on the ground, and other pilots to maintain a safe environment. We do not need unprofessional cowboys like this American pilot in an environment that invites death so quickly. Thank you, ATC, for a great job.
All that is true and sounds good, but the real reason is that you're being taped and even though the controller knows the pilot understood, he needs it recorded in case of any problem that might arise.
The co-pilot took over plane's comm on the ground. The ATC was frustrated with the pilot for not using proper comm procedures. I'm sure AA will hear about it and take measures to correct this pilot.
No, I don't think so. I think the "second" voice you hear IS the Captain. The culprit in this video making a mockery of proper radio etiquette is the First Officer.
@@motrock93b Usually yes, but in the case that the Captain is the “pilot flying” then the First Officer would the “pilot not flying” and make the communication calls both inflight and on the ground. My take was the second voice interjected himself bc he was a tired of it as we are. Can a Captain be delegated to SIC? Yes, if he works for a woke corporation like American Airlines, the F/O can, if a protected class, can run roughshod over him. If this is the case, it will not be the last time I’ve seen an F/O “run” as in setting the tempo for how the cockpit (flight deck-AA) works.
Part of the ATC's job is guiding the flights properly and also verifying that the pilot understands the instructions and that is why they require a read-back. Controller was correct and pilot was triggered because he got called out for being lazy.
Phoenix approach was absolutely, positively correct! I learned basic radio communication when I was a private pilot at a controlled field! Hello McFly….American Airlines pilot!
@@brpark72 31-year airline pilot here: The controller was correct. In the USA, call sign numbers must be combined; e.g. Fourteen Seventy-Nine. In other countries, per ICAO protocol, they must be separated; e.g. One-Four-Seven-Nine. Radio discipline and standard phraseology among controllers is not always perfect, but SIGNIFICANTLY better than among "professional" pilots. Throughout my career this has always been an issue, and probably always will be.
ATC has no authority over the Pilots, it doenst work like that, theyre just glorified ground crews. The commentary by the ATC personnel was unprofessional and unnecessary. Pheonix is a notoriously shit airport and staff as well.
@@DonzeJ "Glorified ground crew" as if both ground crew and ATC aren't the most important aspect of flight safety. Sure, ATC has no directly punitive authority over you, but that report is going straight to the FAA, who does. If an ATC suggests you have a number to call, it means youre most likely going to be investigated whether you like it or not. Its probably in your best interest to call and give your side of the story.
@@DonzeJ Not one thing you said was correct. You had better stick with the Flight Simulator program on your computer because your attitude in an actual aircraft would probably get someone killed.
As a retired controller I would say the controller was correct in wanting a full read back on the clearances HOWEVER…. This doesn’t really rise to the level of a pilot deviation. The reason controllers need full read backs is because sometimes parts of a transmission do get cut off. In this case there was one transmission by the controller that had the numbers but omitted the company identifier. If the pilots were smart they would just say they were giving their full call sign every time and for some reason it wasn’t coming through. Either way I’m sure nothing came of this
pilot deviation had nothing to do with the correction on the callback; it had everything to do with becoming that flustered and angry over the correction. that's absolutely something the FAA wants to know about, and they don't take it lightly.
How bizarre. ATC in the US cuts us a lot of slack, but some things just have to be read back, such as e.g. runway numbers. No idea why he got so defensive about his incomplete readbacks.
It is a safety issues as well. Not reading back your callsign is one thing when you have talked to the controller before and he clearly knows who you are and it is decently obvious who is talking. Not reading back the runway you are cleared to land on is just a potential hazard. I mean where are you cleared to land? On the taxiway maybe? Wouldnt be the first time a pilot lands on a wrong runway. Frankfurt for example has 25R, 25C and 25L as possible runways. I guess this makes it pretty obvious why reading back your runway properly is something you should always do.
@@richarduhde9624and yet you’ll take the risk of getting on the road every single day with thousands of other motor vehicle operators whom you apparently trust to be more reliable than a single highly trained professional in spite of the facts telling us driving is far more dangerous.
When pilots ask about communication issues, it's disheartening that some ATCs react defensively, possibly resulting in them calling out pilots for potential deviations. It's ironic that it occurred only after the frustrated pilot inquired about the communication breakdown, which were not deemed potential deviations beforehand. And I hear ATC constantly saying bizarre crap over the radio. But I guess that's just "funny" and we're supposed to laugh about it.
@@xerxestelevision6666 the risk in getting on the road everyday? the likelihood of surviving a car accident is higher compared to surviving an aircraft accident in the United States. But it sounds like you got all the facts.
@@crankMiHoffer 43,000 fatalities from automobile accidents in America in 2021. Compared to 344 deaths from plane crashes in America in 2021. I have google, do you? I can only do so much to educate you on any given subject but if simple numbers confuse you I can’t do anything. Why are you so easily agitated?
Controller was 100% correct. The protocol has been designed to help avoid accidents that have occured in the past - not conforming to the protocol is at least unprofessional and at worst disasterous
Seems to be a new breed of controllers coming out of school however, it might be a good idea for more aircrews to visit some of the facilities and witness the atmosphere in the tower and IFR room, especially during a peak periods. Not including my military controlling years, I peronally had the opportunity to work the slowest to the busiest facilities the FAA had at the time. Each facility had it's own flavor of operation. The one ingredient that never changed was attention to detail. One of a controllers worst nightmares is miss identification or assuming an aircraft is going to do what you expect it to and it doesn't. My aircrew friends are also under pressure. Fatigue from some of the schedules they are faced with that many times includes sleep deprvation due to their schedules. Some crews having to take flights from out of town just to get to their assigned trip. We all want to vent. Not sure transmitting frustrations over the air is the best policy. Attention to detail however, must remain high on both sides. It is part of the job.
Including your call sign is 2nd nature, same goes with reading back the rwy, especially on a clearance. I remember I once read back “holdshort on rwy 5”, ATC replied “No, holdshort rwy 5” and rightly so made me read back w/o the preposition.
Being 99% compliant in the cockpit is a recipe for disaster. Some supervisor needs to listen to this, then brace that pilot up against the wall for a career discussion.
These callouts are important if a mishap or accident occurs. Some airports are stickers about call sign callouts, but approach and runway confirmations are most important. This pilot was all over the place. ATC was pretty patient until the end.
The way the pilot was sarcastically speaking once he was upset honestly is how all ATC communication should be if safety were properly respected by all involved.
Ding Ding Ding Ding! Generally speaking, all pilots and all controllers blurt out words and phrases so abruptly and quickly I don’t see how anybody understand anything. (I’m just a “layman” not in the industry.)
@@dwightbernheimer331 So many people these days with an inflated ego who imagine themselves superior. Like this guy, they are now everywhere. And no, I'm not from Phoenix Arizona.
The accent gives it a way. Flying over seas for so long that FAA requires you to read back runway assignment and American has been involved in at least 2 or 3 incursions in the last 2 years that made main stream media. So good on the controller for confirming the runway for there record bad on the pilot for taking it personally. I don't doubt they knew what was going on you just need to say those things back to them to ensure for the record you are landing on the correct runway. To take the attitude to the next controller bad on the pilot to add salt on the wound bad tower. As we should always try to deescalate a bad situation and not stoke its flames. SKW was making the correct calls per FAA standard and the call out wasn't necessary which tells me the tower was not busy so it was very late or very early in the morning when all this went down so standards had probably been lacked the whole flight and the crew was already cranky. Just sad to see someone fall into the ditch of pettiness which was not called for all around.
I used to listen to YVR Tower all the time and I remember there was a local controller there who instead of (eg) "Time 1358 Vancouver Tower cleared downwind left for runway one-two, contact Vancouver Tower on 118.7 at the VOR" would say "Time 1358 VOR 18-7 for twelve". Good times.
I'm with the controller on this. Read back the damn instructions without ambiguity. It can make the difference between life and death (I loved when the controller emphasized that by saying "Not 25L or 25R"). And have some humility when you're at fault or get out of the damn cockpit. People have lost their lives over pilots making simple mistakes.
Felt like the captain took off his headset to fume for a minute the first time the FO took over. Glad most of flying is automated now and not fully reliant on the emotions of an ill-tempered pilot.
I read it exactly opposite. No way mister happy I'm just here to chat was the Captain. I'm sure the Captain has put up with this F/O's shenagins for not just the duration of this flight, but for more before. After all, this could be day 3 of a 3-day trip and he's put up with it for a while. When you have a generational separation, actually disciplining small stuff like this will get you eye-rolls and complaints to the Chief Pilot of their base of operations.
@@marcusoreillius9966 Ok so i may have misinterpreted who was #1 i get that but it's just not acceptable to mis-readback instructions (that's basic) and then throw your toys out of the pram when you're picked up on it by someone who's job it is to make sure it's done correctly it's all on the tapes after all and a good controller would be picked up on it if he let that slide you mentioned it could be day 3 of 3 WHO CARES ? if you can't do the job correctly don't do it and an 'eye roll' from a Chief Pilot at an Ops Base explains why these things happen way too often Communication is Key If you get it wrong then that's when accidents happen and after all these guys are bus drivers, it's about the passengers safety, not their ego (20+ years of working on ATC Advanced Systems Research Projects & Training Students, Controllers and Instructors at Institutions across the world)
I have a feeling the tower isn't the last conversation he will have about this. The one with the chief pilot is the one that he may need to be really afraid of. He may want to call a union rep right after the tower.
about 8 years ago i was based out of lax starting my airline career for compass as a copilot for an AA Regional carrier and there was some frustration in the tower because of language dialect issues for some intl carriers arriving not all but some which is understandable. Most of the errors were related to read backs. A buddy of mine works for new york center and he says they deal with the same issues occasionally.
I had a student who was from Taiwan and read-backs were his kryptonite. He had been in the states since early high school, but languages like Chinese have a tough time with “in-between” words. He’s good now, but yea, some languages are shaped really different from english.
The big boys like to use alot of slang in their transmissions. They use " climbing to two five zero" which could be misunderstood as 2250 or what have you. Or they hop on the freq and use only thier flight number to accept a freq change or alt,speed,or crossing restriction. They most definitely have a more relaxed view on radio edict than others..
That same type of “slang” caused FTL 66 to crash years ago, while on approach.. In that case it was broken English. Controller said “Descend two four zero zero” , when he meant descend to 2400 ft. The FTL crew interpreted the transmission as “Descend TO 400 feet” while miles from the airport
First lesson in aviation: never let your emotions get in the way. Stay professional , if you want to talk about something you didn't like ,ask for initials and a phone number.
That’s what happens when professionalism is expected from time clock punching fungible HR units. Professionals run their own practices and get punished for being shit at it by going out of business. There needs to be a different word than “professional” to describe behaving like a grownup employee.
I love the story Michael Collins told in his book "Carrying the Fire": “Pilots worry about how their call signs will sound over the radio, which does not transmit either the very high or the very low frequencies in the human voice. This slight alteration sometimes renders a familiar sound unrecognizable. I remember well one fighter group call sign, “Flit Gun,” which was always misunderstood by ground controllers when transmitted by the squeaky voice of our excitable group commander. “Roger, Six Gun,” they would say, and he would tartly reply, “No, it’s Flit Gun.” “Roger, Six Gun.” That would destroy him. “No, goddamn it, Flit Gun! Flit! Flit!” It was a pleasure to fly in his formation and share these military moments.”
Flying out of Phoenix, certain controllers have a tendency to escalate such situations simply by the tone of their voice. I recently flew the Bravo transition south, and missed adding my callsign. The approach controller became borderline hostile on frequency. Apologetic I reiterated with my callsign and moved on. Though I was definitely annoyed about the treatment. That being said, the pilot was pretty childish and should have been more professional here.
@dr3v1l1993 of course ATC was right, but he didn’t have to bite my head off about it. I don’t get belligerent with ATC, and there have been plenty of opportunities to do so. Professionalism is a two way street.
They've got plenty to sort out without needing to be confused on ANY detail. It is their responsibility to coordinate every craft full of human souls to arrive safely and orderly.
You’re flying a plane, not riding a bike, and need to adhere to the rules and regulations, otherwise there can be a serious miscommunication leave your ego out of it, especially when you have a plan full of passengers.
@@brycedenning130I'm ATC and we get regular proficiency checks where the supervisor is plugged in listening. If you let anything at all slide (like a readback without the callsign, even if it's clearly the same person), you get written up for it. No way am I going to have a failed check ride on my record just because a pilot is feeling lazy, so that's why you might get an attitude from ATC.
F-5’s Sniper 11 and 22 were reprimanded by ZAB Tucson sector on 3/2 at ~19:34 for busting into R-2310A and then were notified of possible pilot deviation at KIWA ground at ~19:50
While flying pipeline patrol in Class B and C airspace on both approach and tower frequencies, I heard many testy exchanges between controllers and airline pilots.
As a retired AA pilot, I apologize for my fellow company pilots' failure to follow proper radio procedures and horrible, emotional responses. I do not know the outcome of this event, but I certainly hope the AA Chief Pilot was not contacted!
Hey, he could have been a former AW or USAir pilot not necessarily a professional AA pilot. My retirement badge says DAL but I am really a NERD (Never Ever Really Delta).
Must have been a real nice cockpit environment for the 2nd pilot on comms (the professional one) ..... Thank you Sir. As for the upset pilot, embarrassing to say the least but worse, this is downright concerning. Who'd want to fly that someone like this?
The pilot is totally in the wrong here. Pilots have standard phraseology for a reason, it’s to make sure everyone is on the same page and there is no ambiguity with clearances.
If I was in the other seat of American 1479 (Captain or FO) I would not fly with that pilot again. I would also report him to professional standards. "Pro Standards" is the union (APA) representative that avoids involvement of management.
The immature pilot on the radio was the captain. You can tell because the voice changed during taxi, because First Officers handle ATC ground communications.
Excellent point. You can tell in the First Officer's voice while communicating with Ground Control that he is also sick of it. Imagine having to fly with such a captain for an entire series of flights.
What is interesting to note is the ATC guys did not let it go.Once the captain turned comms over to his copilot he thought he was in the clear. Any diminishing of your mental capabilities will be challenged.
Vector to join the loc, altitude to maintain, then a visual approach clearance in the very next transmission....retired ATC here, that's a bit of a head scratcher.
Or an arrogant pilot getting all poopy pants at the controls of a multi million dollar jet, hundreds of lives in the back, and my precious unmentionables in the overhead.
That pilot sounds like the same guy who was having readback issues at KJFK. Same voice, same accent, same airline, same exact issue and sarcastic "staccato" readback of flight number.
Agree with Kukoo 100%. I'm a pilot and sometimes we just make mistakes. Best to just fess up and thank the controllers for their help. That's what they're there for. This pilot was a weak-ass tool likely with an overinflated ego, and nothing good ever comes from that mentality. P50 controllers are excellent.
You are a professional pilot! Get your Sh!t together and respond correctly! A disrespectful and completely unprofessional interaction. ATC was 100% justified in their response and it was necessary for all of our safety.
The controller decided to play the standard phraseology game while having no regard for standard phraseology himself. The pilot was in the wrong on the first two transmission by not ending with his callsign, but he fixed it and read back the third instruction without error. The controller continued to berate the pilot for no good reason. Then the tower controller had absolutely no regard for phraseology, intentionally antagonizing the pilot. ATC was completely in the wrong here.
Pilot was completely wrong on multiple calls, and I feel the controller's passive-aggressive approach to reprimanding the pilot further escalated the situation. Doing a full re-read of the instruction with added emphasis on the part he didn't read back was a bit pedantic, just tell him upfront what he needs to read back, next time he doesn't do it, tell him flat out it's a deviation. Just my two cents. End of the day though, pilot was wrong and doubled-down big time on being a man child in the cockpit of an A320 with probably around 150 souls in the back. Get this guy some damn counseling.
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Pilot got all upset. But it was pilot error. The protocol is to read out callsign and repeat instructions.
The protocol on approach is to assign an approach and get a single read back containing the call sign, runway assigned, and specific approach in a single transmission. There is no such thing as progressive approach clearance.
@@BenjaminGattinobody is talking about a progressive approach clearance. Not sure what you mean.
Dunno man sounded like the pilot read back the callsign on the clearance then the controller didn’t acknowledge his call but rather read back the clearance again at which point the pilot was like wtf mate.
@@Lukeduke7773the last call the pilot did read back the callsign. The reason the controller repeated it was because even though the pilot read back the callsign, he never read back the runway assignment. You must readback everything with your callsign. You might be able to get away with abbreviated version at smaller airports, but if that pilot goes to runway 25 instead of 26 and the controller never checks the pilots readback, then that’s the controllers ass.
I’d love to force ATC to say PHX APP, after every transmission. It is a lie that you can’t recognize a voice after they have already given their call sign. Their voice after that point becomes their call sign. Government workers only care about one thing: keeping their jobs.
Just about 4 hours ago I was landing at PHX and the approach controller cleared me to a lower altitude, assigned a heading, speed and cleared me for the visual for 26. I read it all back and forgot to say the runway assignment. She checked to verify my landing clearance. I apologized and read the clearance back properly. I didn't get all triggered and I didn't end up with a phone number. Hmm...
So you’re saying you’re a calm collected mature adult? ;)
@@SidewaysEightSix
I don't know if that is a true statement. When I cinch up my necktie and walk out my front door, I go into pilot mode. I get home, take the tie off and go back to being the goofball I've always been. Haha
Your mother is proud of you.
@@SpaceDad42
Yes, she is.
@@A.J.1656 So that was you unprofessionally reading back all of your approach clearances?
Pilot had every chance to stop. Throw out an apology, wish controller a good day and move on without a violation.
Yeah, absolutely immature from the pilot in my opinion. Should be considering a different career if they can’t take radio comms seriously.
"American 1479, cleared visual approach, runway 26"
"Yup"
"American 1479, cleared visual approach, runway 26"
"Sure thing"
"American 1479, cleared visual approach, runway 26"
"What's your problem?!?!"
🤣 *EPIC!*
I also got a slight reprimand from Phoenix Approach back a few years ago for not acknowledging my call sign after read back. since then I have never forgotten my call sign after read back.
Phoenix controllers are a bit hard, but I'm glad for they keep us safe when in there control. Thank you PHX.
That is the bottom line, "Keep us safe"!
Does your callsign change with each flight? If so, I feel like it could get confusing having different call signs every flight.
"Delta 15....err oops that was my last flight, Delta 1725."
It's not really that difficult. I think being a dick on the radio is STUPID!@@Doitology
@@JC-wj5osno
The phone number to call was over the top....no need for that.... other than that, I think I ATC did ok.
Heard this audio awhile back, glad you have the longer version (with Tower's exchange). I can't imagine the other pilot working in the cockpit at that instance. Now they both have to file paper work and call the number...
The proper ATC radio communication is even longer than what is mentioned here. In the real world, a lot of abbreviations and non conformance exist to save time. But what the ATC is asking here is quite reasonable. 1) you don't want the wrong a/c reading back, especially if there are multiple a/c with similar call signs or flight numbers. 2) you don't want the correct a/c landing into the wrong parallel runway, which PHX has 3) no matter how righteous the pilot feels, they should be able to control their emotions and carry on their day.
one thing for sure, don't ever mess up with people who are meant to keep your safety in the air... i just remember atc - pilot conversation in new york (with aer lingus i believe), and the atc just made that plane turned in circle because that plane wanted to fly to direct waypoint, instead of the traffic at that time...
Agreed. Especially since PHX is an American hub there are going to be lots of company around.
Yeah well there is a big difference between not saying your cleared runway in your readback and saying "pap" instead of "papa"..
I totally get it, it stings to get called out when you mess up. It's embarrassing but you suck it up and do better next time. (Now, I was a submariner and we can be an arrogant bunch--but we pale in comparison to aviators haha.)
I was an American Airlines pilot for 35 years, this pilot should be sanctioned and fined for his highly inept radio communications!
I’m an AA guy as well…24 yrs thus far…and I couldn’t agree more…
Fined? Are you sure you were a pilot?
Soooooooo many pretend pilots in these comments.
Jesus, I'm a lowly private pilot (1k hours), generally know radio etiquette, and that guys' radio skills sucked. And, he was just rude. He screwed up - sucked it up, acknowledge the issue, and move on. Details matter bigly.
happy retirement
Controller wasn't wrong. Pilot took it personal and was being a dick about it.
Whether you feel like it or not, gotta read back. End of story.
More like I have a number for you to call. To be continued...
Especially with all the close calls and runway incursions recently. I swear I’ve heard this crybaby AA pilot arguing with co trollers in the past.
controller was not wrong...... just RUDE
@williamfrank7565
Rather be a Rude ATC than a polite ATC that has a fatal occurrence on his record.
These are Alpha Dogs so hurt feelings are for sissy’s
@@williamfrank7565well when you tell someone whos in the right that they arent doing their job right expect to hear something rude lol
American 1479- you’re a highly paid professional flight crew! You know the rules and the proper phraseology which has been established with the blood of others that have crashed. Read back all ATC instructions and runway assignments with your call sign! Get with the program and stop being so snooty!
That’s why the other guy took over…not sure if it was the FO or Capt that was the original PM…
seems like the other guy had a younger voice, seemed like the FO but could be completely wrong@@BryanOliver-fc9jd
It was captain inflight, FO on gnd doing the coms. I bet the FO was so embarrassed 😂
Highly paid?
Highly paid, not sure... professional, nope...
There are some things that aren’t required but we all know runway assignments and callsign are. Come on, guys.
My favorite part he kept being a dick with the next controller 😂
And that earned him a call for possible pilot deviation and the opportunity to meet the chief pilot.
Nah, the deviation was probably from approach. They were totally by the book with Tower, if a bit overwrought.
@@philmiller2465 I agree, but pretty sure the Tower controller enjoyed relaying the request from approach to the American pilot.
@@enriqueosuna The "I thinkkkk I know why youre frustrated..." was the best part of the video for sure.
@@enriqueosunaDo you believe this guy got to meet with the chief pilot? (I have it on good authority there are no snacks.)
"you seem nice and calm" that was so funny after the fact
Sarcastic. Unnecessary comms.
Passive aggressive...
Trying to use jealousy to bait the incompetent pilot. Not the correct use of radio. Gas lighting ATC baiting an incompetent pilot on frequency. Noone comes out this looking professional.
And it showed arrogance. No need to bring another pilot into the situation as if he wanted her to take sides!
Yeah that was a "richard" move by ATC
The proper response was “oops, sorry, AA1479” then do it correctly.
I’m a retired controller with 40 years in Tower, TRACON, and Center. I also hold an Airline Transport Pilot Certificate. Luckily these situations are very rare, I only had problems a few times with pilots. Proper phraseology is imperative to a safe ATC system.
Under what ARTCC were you providing radar service?
Thank you for reassuring the public.
I'm PPC holder (50 hours of instrument). I'm in the Controller's corner here. Pilots should be reading back their call signs to eliminate any ambiguity, it only takes an extra second.
In the pilot's defense though, he wasn't trying to be lazy. He was just trying to abbreviate his transmissions to keep the frequency clear. But his attitude upon being chided by ATC was unprofessional.
the one that doesn’t field stupid questions
What happens if the pilot has a speech impediment?
If ATC corrects you, thank them, maybe even apologize and move forward. Drop the attitude, captains. It’s pointless when you’re the one who is wrong.
The pommie American 1479 pilot was in the wrong. As many egotistical creatures do they don't accept responsibility for their actions but instead shift blame elsewhere. The pommie pilot shifted blame and acted like a complete jockstrap. All this while he was the custodian of passengers and crew in a dangerous situation - flying. This is how people get killed because of creatures like him.
I don't think it was that he corrected, but how he was correcting him. All supportive for air traffic control, but that was unprofessional for both sides.
@@raccuia1 Agreed! The pilot was likely a DEI pilot. Ya know they work at Boeing, too. And doors fall off the plane.
@@delmaracerlot more arrogant old white guys than anyone else
@@raccuia1What is a pommie?
The pilot’s unprofessional radio work and attitude shocked me.
Really???
@@RLTtizME really
@@Timothy_Texan OMG...shocked say you...don't have a breakdown....really.
@@RLTtizME I am an airline pilot and his attitude was petulant and unprofessional. So, I was shocked as well that his ego got the best of him and probably conceded him a meeting with the American Phoenix hub chief pilot.
@@enriqueosuna So did you start sweating and shaking with incredulity and shock? Tough crowd don't you agree.
Pilots at fault, also giving an attitude after the fact smh 🤦
Huh? What about the other pilot who was reading back correctly and without sass? Do you even know who was flying? I feel bad for the other pilot he got dragged into this stupid situation instead of just going home or to his next flight.
@@gotacallfromvishal It was the captain having the hissy fit. The voice changed during taxi because First Officer's handle the ground communications. The First Officer was flying, and the immature captain was the one messing up the ATC communications.
@@motrock93b there's no rule that FO handle coms
@@gotacallfromvishal Of course not, but SOP for most airlines is for the F/O to handle ground communications. It’s rare in the U. S. for the Captain to perform that function.
This dialogue is SO much more entertaining than any mainstream movies or shows in the past 5 years.
I love this clip so much. Gotta come back to it every few months
@nercopolis99 Do you need someone to talk to?
No it’s not
@@Redridge07 are you volunteering?
@@nercopolis99 Yes, I am here for you. For a small fee 🙂
Seeing a lot of videos from various creators lately with pilots being extremely rude and unprofessional with controllers. As a pilot building hours toward my commercial, all I gotta say is: If you're that unhappy with your jobs, I'll trade you any day. You're flying an airplane for a living. Smile. You've got the coolest job in the world.
It seems that way when your working up. But it’s still a job at the end of the day. Usually the stuff around the getting to fly a plane is what drags on you over time. The “Getting to fly a plane for money” tends to undermine getting real QoL in the rest of the job.
Just a bus driver in the sky but even more boring. Travel straight lines for hrs
Hang in there, it's a great job. I spent 10 years ferrying small aircraft overseas and then 25 years flying a FedEx Caravan. I loved single pilot.
Also, the vast majority of pilots and controllers are polite and professional. Every once in a while you run into somebody having a bad day.
Holy crap when the second controller hits them with the deviation rofl.
Very simple, you MUST use your callsign.
I'm a pilot who does not understand why this "pilot" of American 1479 can't get it through his thick head that ATC only wants to help him, his passengers, people on the ground, and other pilots to maintain a safe environment. We do not need unprofessional cowboys like this American pilot in an environment that invites death so quickly. Thank you, ATC, for a great job.
All that is true and sounds good, but the real reason is that you're being taped and even though the controller knows the pilot understood, he needs it recorded in case of any problem that might arise.
The co-pilot took over plane's comm on the ground. The ATC was frustrated with the pilot for not using proper comm procedures. I'm sure AA will hear about it and take measures to correct this pilot.
No, I don't think so. I think the "second" voice you hear IS the Captain. The culprit in this video making a mockery of proper radio etiquette is the First Officer.
@@marcusoreillius9966no, it’s the captain being the unprofessional dick on the radio in the air. The First Officer handles the radios on the ground.
Idiotic
@@marcusoreillius9966 No. The First Officer is the one who handles ground communications. The immature cry baby was the captain.
@@motrock93b Usually yes, but in the case that the Captain is the “pilot flying” then the First Officer would the “pilot not flying” and make the communication calls both inflight and on the ground. My take was the second voice interjected himself bc he was a tired of it as we are.
Can a Captain be delegated to SIC? Yes, if he works for a woke corporation like American Airlines, the F/O can, if a protected class, can run roughshod over him. If this is the case, it will not be the last time I’ve seen an F/O “run” as in setting the tempo for how the cockpit (flight deck-AA) works.
There is a right way and a wrong way to communicate. This pilot is not king of the airways, he needs to be set down and get further training.
It's not a training issue it's an attitude issue.
And lose his obnoxious attitude!
Fired. Unprofessional attitude is a safety hazard.
Part of the ATC's job is guiding the flights properly and also verifying that the pilot understands the instructions and that is why they require a read-back. Controller was correct and pilot was triggered because he got called out for being lazy.
The pilot was triggered because he was a DEI hire!
@@delmaracer😂what a load of rubbish
Phoenix approach was absolutely, positively correct! I learned basic radio communication when I was a private pilot at a controlled field! Hello McFly….American Airlines pilot!
Actually ATC isn't saying the tail number correct either. He keeps saying Fourteen-Seven-Nine when he should be saying One-Four-Seven-Nine
@@brpark72 That's how it is out here and local flight schools have been instructed to do so. Not sure why...
@@brpark72 31-year airline pilot here: The controller was correct. In the USA, call sign numbers must be combined; e.g. Fourteen Seventy-Nine. In other countries, per ICAO protocol, they must be separated; e.g. One-Four-Seven-Nine. Radio discipline and standard phraseology among controllers is not always perfect, but SIGNIFICANTLY better than among "professional" pilots. Throughout my career this has always been an issue, and probably always will be.
The second pilot was professional. The first pilot has the wrong temperament for airline flying.
@@08turboSS You sound like one yourself. Let me guess......Trump supporter.
@@rael5469what does any of this have to do with politics tf? Grow up
@@goonzmx Just as I thought, a foul mouthed, deplorable, racist, Trump supporter.
@@08turboSS You sound like Pilot 1 in this video - a dickhead...
@@08turboSS No foreigners on our fit decks? You are the definition of the words 'arrogant' and 'bigot'. Time to get off your high horse.
"Do you need a phone number?" "Not gonna waste my time". Oh, well....in that case, yes.....yes you are LOL
ATC has no authority over the Pilots, it doenst work like that, theyre just glorified ground crews. The commentary by the ATC personnel was unprofessional and unnecessary. Pheonix is a notoriously shit airport and staff as well.
How wrong you are. God help us if you are a pilot.
@@gretzkysyotes Im actually a pilot and and a flight supervisor for ATC. So yeah, I kinda do know what Im talking about there rando internet guy XD
@@DonzeJ "Glorified ground crew" as if both ground crew and ATC aren't the most important aspect of flight safety. Sure, ATC has no directly punitive authority over you, but that report is going straight to the FAA, who does. If an ATC suggests you have a number to call, it means youre most likely going to be investigated whether you like it or not. Its probably in your best interest to call and give your side of the story.
@@DonzeJ Not one thing you said was correct. You had better stick with the Flight Simulator program on your computer because your attitude in an actual aircraft would probably get someone killed.
As a retired controller I would say the controller was correct in wanting a full read back on the clearances HOWEVER….
This doesn’t really rise to the level of a pilot deviation. The reason controllers need full read backs is because sometimes parts of a transmission do get cut off. In this case there was one transmission by the controller that had the numbers but omitted the company identifier. If the pilots were smart they would just say they were giving their full call sign every time and for some reason it wasn’t coming through.
Either way I’m sure nothing came of this
@dr3v1l1993yeah exactly. The controller was being a petty prick just like the pilot was.
Notes taken.
If they were being smart they would have just done their job properly and read everything back with standard phraseology.
pilot deviation had nothing to do with the correction on the callback; it had everything to do with becoming that flustered and angry over the correction. that's absolutely something the FAA wants to know about, and they don't take it lightly.
If the pilots were smart they would have done it right the first time and avoided the whole thing.
I love the way his whole attitude changed after hearing the words "possible pilot deviation".
It was the other pilot at that point
the other pilot took over.
How bizarre. ATC in the US cuts us a lot of slack, but some things just have to be read back, such as e.g. runway numbers. No idea why he got so defensive about his incomplete readbacks.
It is a safety issues as well. Not reading back your callsign is one thing when you have talked to the controller before and he clearly knows who you are and it is decently obvious who is talking. Not reading back the runway you are cleared to land on is just a potential hazard.
I mean where are you cleared to land? On the taxiway maybe? Wouldnt be the first time a pilot lands on a wrong runway. Frankfurt for example has 25R, 25C and 25L as possible runways. I guess this makes it pretty obvious why reading back your runway properly is something you should always do.
Because he's a jerk.
“You seem nice and kind” sent me lmao
Thank god this is in 4K!
yeah I went out and got a new 4K tv just to watch this on. ahhh kidding folks.
It's one thing when you're by yourself and the only guy in the pattern, but airliners at large airports need to be by the book.
I love how the young-sounding pilot in Skywest reads back better than the presumably experienced American dude.
SkyBest!
Lack of professionalism in the cockpit has doomed many.
That's why I will never fly.
@@richarduhde9624and yet you’ll take the risk of getting on the road every single day with thousands of other motor vehicle operators whom you apparently trust to be more reliable than a single highly trained professional in spite of the facts telling us driving is far more dangerous.
When pilots ask about communication issues, it's disheartening that some ATCs react defensively, possibly resulting in them calling out pilots for potential deviations. It's ironic that it occurred only after the frustrated pilot inquired about the communication breakdown, which were not deemed potential deviations beforehand. And I hear ATC constantly saying bizarre crap over the radio. But I guess that's just "funny" and we're supposed to laugh about it.
@@xerxestelevision6666 the risk in getting on the road everyday? the likelihood of surviving a car accident is higher compared to surviving an aircraft accident in the United States. But it sounds like you got all the facts.
@@crankMiHoffer 43,000 fatalities from automobile accidents in America in 2021.
Compared to 344 deaths from plane crashes in America in 2021.
I have google, do you? I can only do so much to educate you on any given subject but if simple numbers confuse you I can’t do anything.
Why are you so easily agitated?
Controller was 100% correct. The protocol has been designed to help avoid accidents that have occured in the past - not conforming to the protocol is at least unprofessional and at worst disasterous
Seems to be a new breed of controllers coming out of school however, it might be a good idea for more aircrews to visit some of the facilities and witness the atmosphere in the tower and IFR room, especially during a peak periods. Not including my military controlling years, I peronally had the opportunity to work the slowest to the busiest facilities the FAA had at the time. Each facility had it's own flavor of operation. The one ingredient that never changed was attention to detail. One of a controllers worst nightmares is miss identification or assuming an aircraft is going to do what you expect it to and it doesn't. My aircrew friends are also under pressure. Fatigue from some of the schedules they are faced with that many times includes sleep deprvation due to their schedules. Some crews having to take flights from out of town just to get to their assigned trip. We all want to vent. Not sure transmitting frustrations over the air is the best policy. Attention to detail however, must remain high on both sides. It is part of the job.
Not sure I would want the pilot of my airplane in an argument with the tower when he is supposed to be concentrating on landing the airplane
The good news is that the dweeb on the radio probably isn't the pilot flying.
I've known a couple of railroad dispatchers who would've read him the riot act if he tried that as a conductor.
Oh great we are flying American on Saturday morning…hope all goes well they already changed our straight thru to a stop in Dallas,
Including your call sign is 2nd nature, same goes with reading back the rwy, especially on a clearance.
I remember I once read back “holdshort on rwy 5”, ATC replied “No, holdshort rwy 5” and rightly so made me read back w/o the preposition.
Because on means your ON runway 5 and holding short. And that would be bad.
That’s my point, needs to be clear. In my mind, my “on” really meant “at”.
Snappy snappy! Settle it down up there, fellas.
When he started reading it back slowly on purpose - that was great - clear to understand, easy to spot mistakes. Every readback should be like that.
Yea but if you can’t be all terse and gravely, why bother even being on the radio?
Wrong answer…at busy airports you have to be efficient on the radio…ATC does not have the time to babysit!
The controllers were much nicer than I would have been with this incompetent pilot
Being 99% compliant in the cockpit is a recipe for disaster. Some supervisor needs to listen to this, then brace that pilot up against the wall for a career discussion.
And end-of-career discussion. When the personality is the problem, the person is unsuited to the profession.
These callouts are important if a mishap or accident occurs. Some airports are stickers about call sign callouts, but approach and runway confirmations are most important. This pilot was all over the place. ATC was pretty patient until the end.
The way the pilot was sarcastically speaking once he was upset honestly is how all ATC communication should be if safety were properly respected by all involved.
Ding Ding Ding Ding!
Generally speaking, all pilots and all controllers blurt out words and phrases so abruptly and quickly I don’t see how anybody understand anything. (I’m just a “layman” not in the industry.)
@@mikebarker9187You get used to it. Especially because you know where the flow is going.
@@mikebarker9187 It sounds like a foreign language to someone not in the industry, but the pilots and controllers speak the language fluently!
If the controller in the tower was from Phoenix Arizona the pilot's lucky that controller graduated high school.. 'Nuff said!!!
@@dwightbernheimer331 So many people these days with an inflated ego who imagine themselves superior. Like this guy, they are now everywhere. And no, I'm not from Phoenix Arizona.
The accent gives it a way. Flying over seas for so long that FAA requires you to read back runway assignment and American has been involved in at least 2 or 3 incursions in the last 2 years that made main stream media. So good on the controller for confirming the runway for there record bad on the pilot for taking it personally. I don't doubt they knew what was going on you just need to say those things back to them to ensure for the record you are landing on the correct runway. To take the attitude to the next controller bad on the pilot to add salt on the wound bad tower. As we should always try to deescalate a bad situation and not stoke its flames. SKW was making the correct calls per FAA standard and the call out wasn't necessary which tells me the tower was not busy so it was very late or very early in the morning when all this went down so standards had probably been lacked the whole flight and the crew was already cranky. Just sad to see someone fall into the ditch of pettiness which was not called for all around.
American crew is definitely too casual with their comms and deserve a reminder of what’s required. Unusual for a pro crew.
I used to listen to YVR Tower all the time and I remember there was a local controller there who instead of (eg) "Time 1358 Vancouver Tower cleared downwind left for runway one-two, contact Vancouver Tower on 118.7 at the VOR" would say "Time 1358 VOR 18-7 for twelve". Good times.
That guy should not be in any cockpit
And you should get counseling
@@BAKER22-l4u Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to comment and remove all doubt.
I'm with the controller on this. Read back the damn instructions without ambiguity. It can make the difference between life and death (I loved when the controller emphasized that by saying "Not 25L or 25R"). And have some humility when you're at fault or get out of the damn cockpit. People have lost their lives over pilots making simple mistakes.
love the #2 having to step in because #1 is acting like a toddler having a hissy fit
Felt like the captain took off his headset to fume for a minute the first time the FO took over. Glad most of flying is automated now and not fully reliant on the emotions of an ill-tempered pilot.
I read it exactly opposite. No way mister happy I'm just here to chat was the Captain. I'm sure the Captain has put up with this F/O's shenagins for not just the duration of this flight, but for more before. After all, this could be day 3 of a 3-day trip and he's put up with it for a while. When you have a generational separation, actually disciplining small stuff like this will get you eye-rolls and complaints to the Chief Pilot of their base of operations.
@@marcusoreillius9966 Ok so i may have misinterpreted who was #1
i get that
but it's just not acceptable to mis-readback instructions (that's basic) and then throw your toys out of the pram when you're picked up on it by someone who's job it is to make sure it's done correctly
it's all on the tapes after all and a good controller would be picked up on it if he let that slide
you mentioned it could be day 3 of 3
WHO CARES ?
if you can't do the job correctly don't do it
and an 'eye roll' from a Chief Pilot at an Ops Base explains why these things happen way too often
Communication is Key
If you get it wrong then that's when accidents happen and after all these guys are bus drivers, it's about the passengers safety, not their ego
(20+ years of working on ATC Advanced Systems Research Projects & Training Students, Controllers and Instructors at Institutions across the world)
@@DouglasTechReviewsas an outsider and passenger, I also got the feeling the #2 was the one who took over.
Love how this took place right above our house near the cubs spring stadium 😂
I have a feeling the tower isn't the last conversation he will have about this. The one with the chief pilot is the one that he may need to be really afraid of. He may want to call a union rep right after the tower.
I love this channel for the context, many thanks
the last thing I want to hear as a flyer is an argument in the cockpit!
about 8 years ago i was based out of lax starting my airline career for compass as a copilot for an AA Regional carrier and there was some frustration in the tower because of language dialect issues for some intl carriers arriving not all but some which is understandable. Most of the errors were related to read backs. A buddy of mine works for new york center and he says they deal with the same issues occasionally.
I had a student who was from Taiwan and read-backs were his kryptonite. He had been in the states since early high school, but languages like Chinese have a tough time with “in-between” words.
He’s good now, but yea, some languages are shaped really different from english.
The big boys like to use alot of slang in their transmissions. They use " climbing to two five zero" which could be misunderstood as 2250 or what have you. Or they hop on the freq and use only thier flight number to accept a freq change or alt,speed,or crossing restriction. They most definitely have a more relaxed view on radio edict than others..
That same type of “slang” caused FTL 66 to crash years ago, while on approach.. In that case it was broken English. Controller said “Descend two four zero zero” , when he meant descend to 2400 ft. The FTL crew interpreted the transmission as “Descend TO 400 feet” while miles from the airport
True. I would be definitely asking for another read back after ATC telling me to decend and maintain 400ft though. That's way to low.
No one is ever given a clearance to 2250’. 😂
ATC should have waited until the pilot cleared the runway before giving them the number to call
First lesson in aviation: never let your emotions get in the way. Stay professional , if you want to talk about something you didn't like ,ask for initials and a phone number.
When i took my class for my private pilot license, it was preached over and again to follow all the instructions including my call sign.
The decay of professional courtesy has even reached commercial aviation. That's what happens when standards are lowered.
That’s what happens when professionalism is expected from time clock punching fungible HR units.
Professionals run their own practices and get punished for being shit at it by going out of business.
There needs to be a different word than “professional” to describe behaving like a grownup employee.
@mzaite I think it is this sense of entitlement that permeates our society especially in social media.
These are white pilots..... they had full standards
I love the story Michael Collins told in his book "Carrying the Fire":
“Pilots worry about how their call signs will sound over the radio, which does not transmit either the very high or the very low frequencies in the human voice. This slight alteration sometimes renders a familiar sound unrecognizable. I remember well one fighter group call sign, “Flit Gun,” which was always misunderstood by ground controllers when transmitted by the squeaky voice of our excitable group commander. “Roger, Six Gun,” they would say, and he would tartly reply, “No, it’s Flit Gun.” “Roger, Six Gun.” That would destroy him. “No, goddamn it, Flit Gun! Flit! Flit!” It was a pleasure to fly in his formation and share these military moments.”
Flying out of Phoenix, certain controllers have a tendency to escalate such situations simply by the tone of their voice. I recently flew the Bravo transition south, and missed adding my callsign. The approach controller became borderline hostile on frequency. Apologetic I reiterated with my callsign and moved on. Though I was definitely annoyed about the treatment.
That being said, the pilot was pretty childish and should have been more professional here.
@dr3v1l1993 of course ATC was right, but he didn’t have to bite my head off about it. I don’t get belligerent with ATC, and there have been plenty of opportunities to do so. Professionalism is a two way street.
They've got plenty to sort out without needing to be confused on ANY detail. It is their responsibility to coordinate every craft full of human souls to arrive safely and orderly.
You’re flying a plane, not riding a bike, and need to adhere to the rules and regulations, otherwise there can be a serious miscommunication leave your ego out of it, especially when you have a plan full of passengers.
@@brycedenning130I'm ATC and we get regular proficiency checks where the supervisor is plugged in listening. If you let anything at all slide (like a readback without the callsign, even if it's clearly the same person), you get written up for it. No way am I going to have a failed check ride on my record just because a pilot is feeling lazy, so that's why you might get an attitude from ATC.
Cause they deal with idiots all day long. Phoenix area is soaked with Chinese and other students that cause so many issues to controllers.
I flew for 33 years for United. I never heard anything like these communications. It's a simple task and should come automatic. (Holy Moly!)
missing a runway assignment readback seems really major since if they land on the wrong runway, people could die
Could be worse, they could be CommutAir a couple years back and just miss the runway entirely.
602 Phoenix represent !
Nice to know we have children flying airliners out there...
- you seem very hostile
[...]
- you seem nice and kind
n'awwwwww ^-^ :3
flight school 101, use your callsigns correctly. this pilot was clearly tired or undisciplined
Undisciplined, good discipline still holds up when tired. That’s why it’s discipline.
or drunk
F-5’s Sniper 11 and 22 were reprimanded by ZAB Tucson sector on 3/2 at ~19:34 for busting into R-2310A and then were notified of possible pilot deviation at KIWA ground at ~19:50
What?
Best part is he also didn't follow the taxi instructions
While flying pipeline patrol in Class B and C airspace on both approach and tower frequencies, I heard many testy exchanges between controllers and airline pilots.
Phoenix airspace is very busy, not the only major airport around here! Call sign isn't optional.
As a retired AA pilot, I apologize for my fellow company pilots' failure to follow proper radio procedures and horrible, emotional responses. I do not know the outcome of this event, but I certainly hope the AA Chief Pilot was not contacted!
Hey, he could have been a former AW or USAir pilot not necessarily a professional AA pilot. My retirement badge says DAL but I am really a NERD (Never Ever Really Delta).
@@jcheck6 you have a good point!
Must have been a real nice cockpit environment for the 2nd pilot on comms (the professional one) ..... Thank you Sir.
As for the upset pilot, embarrassing to say the least but worse, this is downright concerning. Who'd want to fly that someone like this?
American 1-4-7-9's wife took off with a 26 year old...
the assignment was hitting a lil too close to home.
I don't blame the wife one bit.
How the hell this guy made it to a Part 121 seat is beyond me.
I have been looking for one of those for months.
Yes sir,I totaly agree with you! He sounded like a spoiled teen! What a shame!
He’s in the left seat too.
Some people just interview good.
Cutbacks must be causing psych tests to get dropped from interviews. Sad.
American 1479, cleared visual approach, runway 26
You got it chief
American 1479, cleared visual approach, runway 26
Right back at ya
The pilot is totally in the wrong here. Pilots have standard phraseology for a reason, it’s to make sure everyone is on the same page and there is no ambiguity with clearances.
All I can see in my head while listening is Brian and Stewie on the walkies with Stewie berating Brian for not saying 'over' after transmitting.😂
Multiple major plane crashes in history due to instructions not being repeated with callsign properly. Protocols exist for a reason
If I was in the other seat of American 1479 (Captain or FO) I would not fly with that pilot again. I would also report him to professional standards. "Pro Standards" is the union (APA) representative that avoids involvement of management.
Lol..get counseling
The immature pilot on the radio was the captain. You can tell because the voice changed during taxi, because First Officers handle ATC ground communications.
That's worrying.. if he is annoyed about having to use the the correct phrases. What else is he not doing in the cockpit that he should be..
WTF is WRONG with you
Excellent point. You can tell in the First Officer's voice while communicating with Ground Control that he is also sick of it. Imagine having to fly with such a captain for an entire series of flights.
What is interesting to note is the ATC guys did not let it go.Once the captain turned comms over to his copilot he thought he was in the clear.
Any diminishing of your mental capabilities will be challenged.
It embarrasses me that this guy is doing what I do for a living
These are fundamentals. 😂 If you’re going to get so precious about something at least make it about something precious 😊
Last thing you need is a stress pilot on final.
Last thing you need is pilot landing on the wrong runway
Vector to join the loc, altitude to maintain, then a visual approach clearance in the very next transmission....retired ATC here, that's a bit of a head scratcher.
As a frequent flyer the last thing I want to hear is ATC arguing with the pilot
Or an arrogant pilot getting all poopy pants at the controls of a multi million dollar jet, hundreds of lives in the back, and my precious unmentionables in the overhead.
I'm not a pilot, but even I know the rules. You screw up, be polite and humble and you probably won't end up with a phone number to call.
Yep, politeness is a secret weapon.
That pilot sounds like the same guy who was having readback issues at KJFK. Same voice, same accent, same airline, same exact issue and sarcastic "staccato" readback of flight number.
Be funny if it was the same trip!
I thought of the same thing!!
Agree with Kukoo 100%. I'm a pilot and sometimes we just make mistakes. Best to just fess up and thank the controllers for their help. That's what they're there for. This pilot was a weak-ass tool likely with an overinflated ego, and nothing good ever comes from that mentality. P50 controllers are excellent.
How is this guy flying commercial if he can’t do a proper read back that everyone is required to do
You are a professional pilot! Get your Sh!t together and respond correctly! A disrespectful and completely unprofessional interaction. ATC was 100% justified in their response and it was necessary for all of our safety.
As a military instructor pilot, we emphasized the proper use of call signs. This pilot was not adhering to proper radio usage.
The controller decided to play the standard phraseology game while having no regard for standard phraseology himself. The pilot was in the wrong on the first two transmission by not ending with his callsign, but he fixed it and read back the third instruction without error. The controller continued to berate the pilot for no good reason. Then the tower controller had absolutely no regard for phraseology, intentionally antagonizing the pilot. ATC was completely in the wrong here.
I have no pilot training but even I appreciate the importance of reading back your call sign.
He read it back a million times.
@@canigetahoooyyyaaaaa7319 I thought your supposed to give your call sign with every read back?
Pilot was completely wrong on multiple calls, and I feel the controller's passive-aggressive approach to reprimanding the pilot further escalated the situation. Doing a full re-read of the instruction with added emphasis on the part he didn't read back was a bit pedantic, just tell him upfront what he needs to read back, next time he doesn't do it, tell him flat out it's a deviation. Just my two cents. End of the day though, pilot was wrong and doubled-down big time on being a man child in the cockpit of an A320 with probably around 150 souls in the back. Get this guy some damn counseling.