I like your positive attitude. You found out your motor has STD’s and you still say everything’s gonna be OK. ❤ Now if only the gal down at the truckstop could have that same cheery outlook.
I feel so embarrassed. Due to my waning eyesight, At first I thought it said .010, and I thought I can put my hand in a hole without wearing gloves. Now I'm taking pills 2 times a day and have a support group on Thursdays.
Another awesome video sir, I don’t remember now why but the last overhaul kit I bought through Agco and it was either Korves or Maibach I can’t remember now but one of them told me not to use the head gasket that you get from Agco and I bought one from them. But the Agco head gaskets have gave them some grief over the years
While the block is at the machine shop , just a suggestion , might want to check the sleeve sealing lands with a dial indicator to be sure they round ,flat with no discrepancies. Along with NDT the upper sealing lands . The upper end of the sleeve relies on a metal to metal seal since I seen no O ring ? If that is , then the shim could also serve as a gasket if the land is not smooth and flat .But yes all the sleeves should be the same height to ensure the same clamping force when the head is torqued .
Never thought about the sleeves being "shimmed". Knew they existed, never used them, was taught to never use them. Was taught, face/deck the block, install the sleeves and if needed, then face/re deck the sleeves. Now it makes me believe that whoever did it last, thought they installed the shim and just never went back to double check, perhaps "rushed" to complete. Look at it this way Chris, "better safe than sorry". Well, I think the mystery is solved. The shims. Now, my only question is, is there enough "meat" on top to recut the counter bore for the sleeves? With that being a 2 piece wrist pin bushing, this is why I was taught "if you're in there, just go ahead and do it all right" yes, it's extra money but, it's an "investment". Take care of your equipment, it will take care of you. Not many understand that. As always, excellent video. Looking forward to seeing what the machine shop says. Cheers :)
I agree, I'd rather machine than use shims. After seeing how rough that one shim was, I'm beginning to wonder if #5 had a shim but pinched or otherwise damaged, and after all these years it finished breaking up and that sleeve settled the extra .002 and all of the sudden... gasket leak. Crazy thing is, they would have all been in spec without the shims. With the other things I found, I'm glad I tore it down for a full inspection.
Certainly makes me scratch my head at whether it has a cracked sleeve, but the #5 sleeve being down makes me wonder. Anyways, enjoyed watching and good luck with it, hopefully not too much wrong with it. I hope you have a nice day!
Well that’s a mixed bag, encouraging on most everything except for not finding a distinct smoking gun-so far, though now I’m wondering if the machine will find anything either. Trying to compute what the effects of no .002” sleeve shim on #5 🤔. Like you stated, odd that the new gasket didn’t seal it at least for a short time. Hang in there, will be ready for the next chapter. Thanks for sharing.
A clue just might be found, My Dear Watson. Catching a wrist pin bushing and the shim missing makes for a maybe cause and a good time to save pain later. Great video.
I had a couple of people ask if I was going to do an in frame. I'm glad I didn't. I would have missed the pto driveshaft wear and the clutch that was about whipped. Throw in the loose wrist pin and updating to the better rod bolts, and I'm glad I am doing it right.
48 mile drive to a show.... Get a bunch of tractors together like a convoy that would sound as fun as a drive across the Mackinaw Bridge. It will be neat to see this tractor as one of them. Upgrades.... Almost always a good thing.
We drove 8 tractors to the show, did it in 2 trips. I also trailered another 4 so we had a dozen tractors at that show. On the way back, some friends from Iowa had time to kill, so they drove 3, and we drove 4, so we had 7 in that trip, and I trailered the rest back the next day. We also hauled implements. I took the 720 baler, Alan had the 548 plow, and some one pulled the 570 manure spreader. It was quite the convoy.
@anthonyhengst2908 I had the intentions of having the 1650 terra tire restored in time for that show. The over width was going to make trailering it tough, so we decided to drive a bunch of them instead. I didn't get the 1650 done, but we drove anyways.
I have enjoyed following along especially since Ethan is experiencing similar issues. It seems with these engines especially the turbo ones that there is big problems with sealing at the rear area of these heads. Maybe it is bolt with the oil passage drilled through that cannot be torqued down as far. I am sure you will make sure every protrusion is perfectly equal. I don't know if your engine has the aluminum head gasket available.
Chris, overall it sounds like it was probably well worth tearing down and rebuilt. When you get done it should be like a brand new motor especially with the upgrades you are doing. How expensive is it to take it into the shop to have them do all the things that you want to have done? Kind almost sounds like those shims and those sleeves seems to be the issue like you pointed out. Thanks Michael
I would guess a couple hundred bucks, $500 at the most for machine shop work. My guy has always been very reasonable with his pricing. Too bad he's retiring in a couple months, but thank goodness he didn't retire a couple years ago like he planned.
Yes just my thoughts but why would you have shims under 5 cylinders not the other that is a big mystery . Hope it goes back together good and no problems again. I do have a question when you put that hydraulic valve on you ran 3 lines to it is that cause it need the third line for being a closed center system why I ask I have a jd out here and it close center it you let it sit then use the remotes for the loader it jerks act like it has air in system
The third hose is because it's open center. All of the hydraulic oil is going through that loader valve before it returns to power the remotes and 3 point. So I have 2 hoses that are always under pressure. The third hose is a return to sump that only has oil moving when the loader is used. It returns the oil from the low pressure side of the cylinders so that it doesn't have to be forced into the high pressure that is going to feed the remotes. It helps speed up the loader. I don't know the intricacies of deere hydraulics, but it could be some leak lets some of oil siphon back to the reservoir and air takes its place. Maybe try uncoupling the hoses when it is going to awhile, and hook them back up when you're ready to use it asee if that makes a difference.
😊😊 HI CHRIS I would check ✔️ 😊 the cylinder head and block W a staright edge W,a feeler gauge it shouldnt be able 2 go under it 2 see if they needed 2 be shaved 2 be true and straight 😊😊 I say a cylinder sleeve is cracked unless it was a O ring leaking at the bottom of the cylindrr sleeve I dont think 😮😮 so OMG 2 2 2O25
2 วันที่ผ่านมา +1
I would not use that copper crap when you put on the new gasket. Think about it, if there was dirt or grime on the sealing surfaces you would clean it off as it would affect the sealing. Why would you add copper grime to the sealing surfaces and expect it to seal. I am old school and just use grease. Put that copper crap on a 1650 rebuild and the gasket failed to seal in a matter of hours. I replaced the head gasket and used grease and 5 years later still no problems. Thanks for all of your GREAT Oliver content.
I have never used grease on head gaskets, but the shop i started in all the old timers used grease on all there gaskets. They never had a problem, to this day i dont use grease . Most of the time i use nothing. @ThatOliverGuyChris
Boy that is a head scratcher, nothing really showing up with a crack so far. Sure looks like it might be that lower sleeve. But I am glad you can;t see a crack in the block. Will keep fingers crossed that the machine shop doesn't show a cracked block too.
Well well well, So why did the lowest setting sleeve take all that time to show up? I would think that is the problem, less clamping force on that sleeve. Atleast you found some type of issue.
My newest theory.... there was a shim under that one as well, but got damaged during installation. Then 50 years of running, vibration and the like, disintegrated what was left of the shim, the sleeve settled down the .002, and then boom, the crush is insufficient on that hole. Of course, I'd never be able to prove it. The wrist pin bushings finally came in, so it's going to the machine shop tomorrow.
@aaronkaraszewski2749 I don't know. I've been measuring the counterbores, and if they had left the shims out, the protrusion would have been in spec and pretty even. Maybe their micrometer was off by .002. 😆 Unfortunately, there's not anyone around to ask why they did what they did.
To me the shims acted as a sort of gasket. The one without lost its,seal. Now maybe that one with the broken shim was by passing compression gas. So far no definite word. Hope no cracks between cylinders in block. The old fergason engines were very bad about that. The one two piece rust pin bushing that was loose was sticking time bomb.(obvious).
It looked really good in person. The video was kind of dark, so I cranked up the brightness in editing. I think that made it look a little on the white side.
Chris, are the 2-piece bushings a bigger problem on the turbocharged engines than the N/A? Also, are the 283's in the 1650/1655 susceptible to the same issues as the 310's? Don't remember hearing anything negative about them.
They are more of an issue with the turbo, with the higher combination pressure. The 283 can have the same issue, but it's a lot less common. It uses the exact same bushings, so if you're rebuilding it's a good idea to switch to the one piece bushing. I wouldn't tear one down if it's running well, but if you hear a knock developing, it would be best to investigate before it makes an inspection window.
Really it was all of them. The 283 had less trouble with the lower horsepower, but it used the exact same wrist pins bushings. So it's a good idea to put in the one piece if you have it apart.
Asking for a friend, do you farm to support your love for old Olivers or do you love old Olivers to farm? Both are addicting. You might need professional help.
@ThatOliverGuyChris did you check the liner flanges for cracks? You are soon running a competition with my engine guy. I think he said mine is the 5th engine he has apart right now
@jamieebersole6755 i didn't notice any. I'm starting to think that #5 did have a shim, and it somehow gave up the ghost and then the extra .002 was enough to cause problems. If we don't find cracks, that's going to be my official diagnosis.
I like your positive attitude. You found out your motor has STD’s and you still say everything’s gonna be OK. ❤ Now if only the gal down at the truckstop could have that same cheery outlook.
I feel so embarrassed. Due to my waning eyesight, At first I thought it said .010, and I thought I can put my hand in a hole without wearing gloves. Now I'm taking pills 2 times a day and have a support group on Thursdays.
@ not to mention your sleeves itch…
@@rosstheoliverman Hahahahahaha 😂😂😂
@@ThatOliverGuyChris 😂😂😂
😂
Very entertaining watching you dig into this engine. Thanks, Chris 👍
Another awesome video sir, I don’t remember now why but the last overhaul kit I bought through Agco and it was either Korves or Maibach I can’t remember now but one of them told me not to use the head gasket that you get from Agco and I bought one from them. But the Agco head gaskets have gave them some grief over the years
I know the aftermarket Reliance head gaskets were bad for awhile there. Some of the holes barely lined up, and they failed in short order.
While the block is at the machine shop , just a suggestion , might want to check the sleeve sealing lands with a dial indicator to be sure they round ,flat with no discrepancies. Along with NDT the upper sealing lands . The upper end of the sleeve relies on a metal to metal seal since I seen no O ring ? If that is , then the shim could also serve as a gasket if the land is not smooth and flat .But yes all the sleeves should be the same height to ensure the same clamping force when the head is torqued .
Great video Chris, very informative
Glad you liked it.
Look on the bright side. This will keep your mechanical skills honed. I know your videos inspire me to keep tackling jobs.
All in all, it's a good thing I tore into it. Thanks!
Very interesting video Chris, thanks
Glad you enjoyed it
Never thought about the sleeves being "shimmed". Knew they existed, never used them, was taught to never use them. Was taught, face/deck the block, install the sleeves and if needed, then face/re deck the sleeves. Now it makes me believe that whoever did it last, thought they installed the shim and just never went back to double check, perhaps "rushed" to complete.
Look at it this way Chris, "better safe than sorry". Well, I think the mystery is solved. The shims. Now, my only question is, is there enough "meat" on top to recut the counter bore for the sleeves?
With that being a 2 piece wrist pin bushing, this is why I was taught "if you're in there, just go ahead and do it all right" yes, it's extra money but, it's an "investment". Take care of your equipment, it will take care of you. Not many understand that. As always, excellent video. Looking forward to seeing what the machine shop says. Cheers :)
I agree, I'd rather machine than use shims. After seeing how rough that one shim was, I'm beginning to wonder if #5 had a shim but pinched or otherwise damaged, and after all these years it finished breaking up and that sleeve settled the extra .002 and all of the sudden... gasket leak. Crazy thing is, they would have all been in spec without the shims.
With the other things I found, I'm glad I tore it down for a full inspection.
Very interesting video really enjoyed watching it
Thanks for watching!
Certainly makes me scratch my head at whether it has a cracked sleeve, but the #5 sleeve being down makes me wonder. Anyways, enjoyed watching and good luck with it, hopefully not too much wrong with it. I hope you have a nice day!
I'm starting to think there was a shim under there, it disintegrated, and when the sleeve settled down the .002, voila..... trouble. Time will tell.
Well that’s a mixed bag, encouraging on most everything except for not finding a distinct smoking gun-so far, though now I’m wondering if the machine will find anything either. Trying to compute what the effects of no .002” sleeve shim on #5 🤔. Like you stated, odd that the new gasket didn’t seal it at least for a short time. Hang in there, will be ready for the next chapter. Thanks for sharing.
The wrist pin bushings finally showed up, so I'll be finding out soon.
Unsolved mysteries 😊
A clue just might be found, My Dear Watson. Catching a wrist pin bushing and the shim missing makes for a maybe cause and a good time to save pain later. Great video.
I had a couple of people ask if I was going to do an in frame. I'm glad I didn't. I would have missed the pto driveshaft wear and the clutch that was about whipped. Throw in the loose wrist pin and updating to the better rod bolts, and I'm glad I am doing it right.
48 mile drive to a show.... Get a bunch of tractors together like a convoy that would sound as fun as a drive across the Mackinaw Bridge. It will be neat to see this tractor as one of them. Upgrades.... Almost always a good thing.
We drove 8 tractors to the show, did it in 2 trips. I also trailered another 4 so we had a dozen tractors at that show. On the way back, some friends from Iowa had time to kill, so they drove 3, and we drove 4, so we had 7 in that trip, and I trailered the rest back the next day. We also hauled implements. I took the 720 baler, Alan had the 548 plow, and some one pulled the 570 manure spreader. It was quite the convoy.
@ThatOliverGuyChris I love that.
I need a little better trailer but I would like to do that some day.
@anthonyhengst2908 I had the intentions of having the 1650 terra tire restored in time for that show. The over width was going to make trailering it tough, so we decided to drive a bunch of them instead. I didn't get the 1650 done, but we drove anyways.
As always top notch stuff on this channel even if Ross made a comment. 😂
😆 🤣 😂
I have enjoyed following along especially since Ethan is experiencing similar issues.
It seems with these engines especially the turbo ones that there is big problems with sealing at the rear area of these heads. Maybe it is bolt with the oil passage drilled through that cannot be torqued down as far.
I am sure you will make sure every protrusion is perfectly equal.
I don't know if your engine has the aluminum head gasket available.
I've got an oem gasket to put back in there.
Did pistons and sleeves on my 310 along with cam bushings crank polish new bearings pump bushings
i would get with arp fastners and see if they can not set you up with a set of head studs
I should look into that.
Sometimes homemade tools are the best
What's the saying... ill get the right part later, unless this works. I think that applies to homemade tools.
Ive seen them that way before. Ive seen Shimes get beat out before but you don't see any movement on the sleeves though
I'm starting to wonder if that shim corroded and got beat out. I thought they were stainless, though.
@@ThatOliverGuyChris everyone that ever put in was stainless
not sure if the engine is fire ring or not but i would also fire ring the old gal put water filters on your tractors that will help with electrolysis
It uses a fire ribg style gasket.
Any guess how many hours it’s run since the last overhaul? Watching you do the tear down is educational. Thanks for sharing!
I don't know how many hours since it was last opened up. I need to look at the back of the tach, they might have written ut in there.
Chris, overall it sounds like it was probably well worth tearing down and rebuilt. When you get done it should be like a brand new motor especially with the upgrades you are doing. How expensive is it to take it into the shop to have them do all the things that you want to have done? Kind almost sounds like those shims and those sleeves seems to be the issue like you pointed out. Thanks Michael
I would guess a couple hundred bucks, $500 at the most for machine shop work. My guy has always been very reasonable with his pricing. Too bad he's retiring in a couple months, but thank goodness he didn't retire a couple years ago like he planned.
Yes just my thoughts but why would you have shims under 5 cylinders not the other that is a big mystery . Hope it goes back together good and no problems again. I do have a question when you put that hydraulic valve on you ran 3 lines to it is that cause it need the third line for being a closed center system why I ask I have a jd out here and it close center it you let it sit then use the remotes for the loader it jerks act like it has air in system
The third hose is because it's open center. All of the hydraulic oil is going through that loader valve before it returns to power the remotes and 3 point. So I have 2 hoses that are always under pressure. The third hose is a return to sump that only has oil moving when the loader is used. It returns the oil from the low pressure side of the cylinders so that it doesn't have to be forced into the high pressure that is going to feed the remotes. It helps speed up the loader.
I don't know the intricacies of deere hydraulics, but it could be some leak lets some of oil siphon back to the reservoir and air takes its place. Maybe try uncoupling the hoses when it is going to awhile, and hook them back up when you're ready to use it asee if that makes a difference.
😊😊 HI CHRIS I would check ✔️ 😊 the cylinder head and block W a staright edge W,a feeler gauge it shouldnt be able 2 go under it 2 see if they needed 2 be shaved 2 be true and straight 😊😊 I say a cylinder sleeve is cracked unless it was a O ring leaking at the bottom of the cylindrr sleeve I dont think 😮😮 so OMG 2 2 2O25
I would not use that copper crap when you put on the new gasket. Think about it, if there was dirt or grime on the sealing surfaces you would clean it off as it would affect the sealing. Why would you add copper grime to the sealing surfaces and expect it to seal. I am old school and just use grease. Put that copper crap on a 1650 rebuild and the gasket failed to seal in a matter of hours. I replaced the head gasket and used grease and 5 years later still no problems. Thanks for all of your GREAT Oliver content.
I've never heard of grease on a head gasket. I bet that smels for the first few hours.
I have never used grease on head gaskets, but the shop i started in all the old timers used grease on all there gaskets. They never had a problem, to this day i dont use grease . Most of the time i use nothing. @ThatOliverGuyChris
It s been many years since I did engine work,but when I did I also used grease.
Boy that is a head scratcher, nothing really showing up with a crack so far. Sure looks like it might be that lower sleeve. But I am glad you can;t see a crack in the block. Will keep fingers crossed that the machine shop doesn't show a cracked block too.
Thanks. If no cracks are found, I'm going to go with it being sleeve protrusion.
Well well well, So why did the lowest setting sleeve take all that time to show up? I would think that is the problem, less clamping force on that sleeve. Atleast you found some type of issue.
What I mean is why did it run ok for all those years and just recently start having problems.
My newest theory.... there was a shim under that one as well, but got damaged during installation. Then 50 years of running, vibration and the like, disintegrated what was left of the shim, the sleeve settled down the .002, and then boom, the crush is insufficient on that hole. Of course, I'd never be able to prove it. The wrist pin bushings finally came in, so it's going to the machine shop tomorrow.
@@ThatOliverGuyChris that makes sense. I wonder why the shims in the first place? The factory spec was never changed during production run.
@aaronkaraszewski2749 I don't know. I've been measuring the counterbores, and if they had left the shims out, the protrusion would have been in spec and pretty even. Maybe their micrometer was off by .002. 😆 Unfortunately, there's not anyone around to ask why they did what they did.
@@ThatOliverGuyChris like you said one of those questions that will never be answered.
Chris, do the rod bolt holes need chanfered when using the new 12 point bolts. Something I remember my machinist saying when he did my 1750
That might be the more ideal situation. Maibach sends the bolts with washers to eliminate the need for chamfering.
Is there dowl pins... alignment pins between head and block?
Stud bolts?
Dowels.
Dowls not letting head torque down on block?
I wonder if it was passing by the broken shim
To me the shims acted as a sort of gasket. The one without lost its,seal. Now maybe that one with the broken shim was by passing compression gas.
So far no definite word. Hope no cracks between cylinders in block.
The old fergason engines were very bad about that.
The one two piece rust pin bushing that was loose was sticking time bomb.(obvious).
I think it's going to work out for the best that I tore it down.
😃😃😃👍👍👍👍👍
That oil looked a bit milky. Maybe it's just my screen but it looked kind of light colored.
It looked really good in person. The video was kind of dark, so I cranked up the brightness in editing. I think that made it look a little on the white side.
I green locktighted my cat D7 wrist pin bushings
Chris, are the 2-piece bushings a bigger problem on the turbocharged engines than the N/A? Also, are the 283's in the 1650/1655 susceptible to the same issues as the 310's? Don't remember hearing anything negative about them.
They are more of an issue with the turbo, with the higher combination pressure. The 283 can have the same issue, but it's a lot less common. It uses the exact same bushings, so if you're rebuilding it's a good idea to switch to the one piece bushing. I wouldn't tear one down if it's running well, but if you hear a knock developing, it would be best to investigate before it makes an inspection window.
@@ThatOliverGuyChris Those bushings were definitely a problem. They used the same bushings from Oliver 66 clear up to 1950T as far as I know.
@TheJohndeere466 correct. It was fine for the lower horsepower applications, but by the time of the 1855, it was outdated.
@@ThatOliverGuyChris Thanks Chris, I'm still hunting for something of the Meadow Green persuasion. 50/55 series are pretty high on my list.
@@MikeJensen-wo7oh it's hard to go wrong with a 1655.
Just heat up the sleave to 200* to find the crack.
Good idea. I might try that.
We're there wrist pin problems with the 283, or was that more of a 310 problem?
Really it was all of them. The 283 had less trouble with the lower horsepower, but it used the exact same wrist pins bushings. So it's a good idea to put in the one piece if you have it apart.
Don't forget to put a new cam Or have it ground , it will be off
Got any recommendations for a reasonably priced new cam?
@@ThatOliverGuyChris I left a comment, but the link I made up, turned out to be a real one, and it was inappropriate 🤣🤣🤣
@@rosstheoliverman 😆 🤣 😂
I've got mine set to hold all links for approval. I'll go look for it.
@@ThatOliverGuyChris make sure your wife’s not home. 😂😂😂
Asking for a friend, do you farm to support your love for old Olivers or do you love old Olivers to farm? Both are addicting. You might need professional help.
😆 🤣 😂. It's a vicious cycle.
The correct answer is,.....YES!
Hey I'm first to the sadness of engine failure 😭😭 😂😂
😆 🤣 😂 that's better than the heartbreak of psoriasis!
@ThatOliverGuyChris did you check the liner flanges for cracks? You are soon running a competition with my engine guy. I think he said mine is the 5th engine he has apart right now
@jamieebersole6755 probably not adequately. At this point I'm going to let the magnaflux tell the story.
@ThatOliverGuyChris I would have thought you would have seen carbon on the liner, but who knows.
@jamieebersole6755 i didn't notice any. I'm starting to think that #5 did have a shim, and it somehow gave up the ghost and then the extra .002 was enough to cause problems. If we don't find cracks, that's going to be my official diagnosis.
Not to say you found your problem but I would have number 4 checked on cracked too but you never know things can happen
I plan on taking 4, 5, and 6 in for testing.
Maybe 5 dropped after it was put together
At least it will be like a brand new tractor after an overhaul
Yep, with the important updates installed.
wAkEsHAU mOToR jUnK wHy YoU nO CuMmInGs SwAP??!?!
Needs more emojis. 😆 🤣 😂
@@ThatOliverGuyChris😂😂😂