How Bad is Super Rugby's Attendance? Comparison with European Leagues
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 พ.ค. 2020
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A look at the Super Rugby attendance numbers from the 2018 season compared with the 2018/19 season for the Top 14, Pro 14 and Premiership. Is Super Rugby's attendance as bad as it's often made out to be?
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I think the Southern Hemisphere should elevate their local competitions. The winners and best 2nd place teams should go into an elite 8 and play a playoff and THAT should be the Super rugby champion
Watching a Highlanders Vs Rebels game in Dunedin, I noticed that an entire stand was completely full of Uni students. They were dancing and looked like they were having a good time. If Super Footy wants to survive they have to work out how to appeal to the younger demographic like they did in Dunedin. Great vid as always.
Yup students get their own stand because they're rowdy
True, most of them are there for the party though not the rugby itself
This super rugby season the Blue Bulls gave out free tickets to students which seemed to bolster numbers. The University of Pretoria (50000+ students) is next door to the rugby stadium...
Attendance in the zoo fluctuates a bit
How many paid for their ticket?
To think that ten years ago, Super Rugby had 20k average. Reds had 32k average attendance, Stormers had more than 40k. While now Stormers struggle to get 20k, and Reds struggle to get 15k on a good match. It just shows how mismanaged the competition has been
10-15 years ago the hurricanes bosses told the Taranaki Rugby Union that if they didn't get a crowd over 14-15k to their bi-annual hurricanes game that they wouldn't get any in the future. Hurricanes wish they could get those numbers in Wellington now, and part of the reason why Taranaki invested in the chiefs instead.
Attendance of the 2019/2020 season of the TOP14 (Before it was canceled):
1. 24518 - UBB (71%)
2. 20936 - Stade T. (92%)
3. 16981 - Clermont (88%)
4. 16000 - La Rochelle (100%)
5. 15043 - Racing (47%)
6. 14478 - LOU (41%)
7. 14422 - Bayonne (85%)
8. 13656 - Toulon (75%)
9. 11574 - Pau (63%)
10. 10845 - Stade F. (54%)
11. 10660 - Brive (76%)
12. 9941 - Castres (81%)
13. 9687 - Montpellier (62%)
14. 8086 - Agen (58%)
Average = 14059
Average Full = 71%
La Rochelle is incredible I think it’s been 3 years since they haven’t had a full stadium
I really miss the days, back in the 2000's, when stadiums used to be packed on every weekend.
One thing I forgot to mention is that there were a few games played at larger stadiums, eg. Twickenham - one of which had 82,000 fans! (Quins v Wasps) - they will have boosted the overall attendance numbers up a touch for the Premiership
leinster play most of there pro14 matches on there home pitch at the RDS (18k), they tend to only play munster in the aviva (52k) because of ticket demand. Your data isnt 100% but it tells the story. Ground sharing is another factor. What is the trend in attendances ? I believe they are increasing in europe.
Yeah I included the RDS in the stats but alongside the Aviva as well. That data provider has Top 14 and Premiership up, but Super Rugby and Pro 14 down. With the Pro 14 I can't help but think the two SA teams have pulled the numbers down a bit. Champions and Challenge Cup were both up as well
@@TwoCentsRugby You also said it in the vod There seems to be a different attitude to travel, the physical distances dont help either. I suspect its easier to talk the wife into a w/end in Paris or London than Joberg. I so hope rugby stays focused on the fans and not the money. The cvc deal doesnt help, they have only 1 goal.
Yeah very true mate. I've been to most of the places around NZ, but a 3 hour flight to Oz isn't an easy sell to the missus with two kids to sit with 😅
@@TwoCentsRugby Your doing it wrong. Its a kid free zone for the weekend (part of the sell). This is where grand parents kick in. NZ is small compared to the other st hemisphere countries so travel costs and accommodation become a factor. Its a day trip in the UK or Ireland and in theory, the away fan is 1/2 the market.
I was watching some Japan Top League matches from 2018-2019 season and compared to the 2020 season it's amazing how attendance has increased. I know RWC had an impact but still is good to see more people going to the stadium. Greetings from Mexico!
Cheers man yeah I've seen reports that they had bumper crowds after the RWC which is excellent to see
Aldo Ortega Nice to see a Rugby fan from Mexico.
Super rugby is certainly dying, I've been a passionate Lions fan my entire life and as soon as a good player pops up (Faf de Klerk, Mostert, basically the entire 2016/2017 team) they leave to go play overseas. It makes the game less enjoyable to watch because all of our golden players arent in the country.
And its always they players you want to watch, James Lowe for the chiefs is my sad point. Loved watching him play for the chiefs now have to watch leinster 😪it's just harder to build a team over a few years without a few key guys being lured away these days. I don't blame them for going either, I probably would lol. Also that was a cracking lion's team for awhile, deserved a title.
Super Rugby is tired and the conference format killed it as a spectacle. Travel and time zones isn't something people will suck up anymore. Player drain on top of that. Not sure there is any way to turn it around...
I agreed, this problem grew in the period around 2006 -2009, back when South Africa easily had all the best players in virtually every position, I remember how at one point basically all the Springbok players were playing overseas (Europe) is ... 2006 -2009 Currie Cup was fantastic to watch and stadiums were pretty much always full, now it is dead as far as attendance goes
Welcome to the last 20 years of Brazilian soccer.
@@tbppuglia wow you're right, I'd never really thought about it that way but your bang on. Football is much worse tho I'm sure you'll agree, I imagine any decent talent is signed up in there teens and earlier. Still have to prove yourself in rugby, then they're poached.
Whats crazy is that a lot of top 14 teams, Agen, Bayonne, Castres etc. Are cities with around 50k people or less, and they are all within 1-2 hours distance from each other as most big french teams are from the southwest. So their fanbase is really local and huge in comparison to the size of the cities
That's true. Sometimes, more than half of the city is in the stadium.
Great analysis,. I agree with the fall in numbers, but as you say, local derbies are a different story. I know in South Africa, you will always get more at derbies, hence the reason why there are more local derbies than in the past in the competition.
In Scotland, Glasgow warriors are always a sell out and do have a faithful crowd and it isn't the biggest of grounds which im hoping they can build their own stadium in the future. Edinburgh are just finishing off making a stadium outside of Murrayfield which will be packed rather than playing in a half empty Murrayfield.
I'd still say there over here though rugby is seen as an upper class sport so we do need to try and reach out to all areas of the country.
im an avid inedinburgh fan and have been to at least 10 of thier recent games, they average about 7-8k attendance, the atmosphere at murrayfield just is non existent when you fill 15% of a stadium, when they played at myreside a couple seasons ago the atmosphere was pretty good, they just didnt have enough capacity so yeah the development of the back pitch stadium at murrayfield will be good if it sits about 9-10k
Where would we put our ground? Warriors definitely deserves to be bigger but there's nowhere near town to put it.
Professional attendances may be high over here, but Premiership attendances are shocking unless you're at 2 or 3 well supported teams. The games I've been involved in the crowds are not much bigger than 100 and that's at literally the next level down from professional
Good video mate. Bath has a capacity of 16k and is sold out nearly every game. The city is full every game day
went to a bath game in february on a tour with my team from ireland. the stadium was half full and the atmosphere was nothing compared to a leinster game
Not a chance is Bath a 16k capacity stadium.
as an Englishman who has lived in Auckland for 6 years I was shocked how little kiwis cared about super rugby...people at work don't even know it's going on
Wow man! That really is a shocker. Great info.
What else is going on?
@@Mo-yd8xc bugger all, maybe it's where i work but it's a big corporate with lots of people. The all blacks game are watched if its aussie or a world cup but other game quite often i feel go under the radar with a lot of people. It's popular just not UK football level of popularity if you ask me
BobbyG Gaming Dude. I stopped watching the NFL 5 years ago. I watch League and Union. Sports in general are dying. Although NFL tickets are mind boggling insanely expensive.
That's because the blues have not been any good for years
Great video, I hope rugby can make a big comeback in super Rugby. I live in Japan and our Top league had some amazing attendances this season. The Covid has totally killed the amazing momentum this season had been building. Hopefully more of the same next year.
In France we have 3 types of teams and their stadiums:
1)-Teams that got their stadiums and were, it depends, is often 70-80% full (very different, for example Toulouse are more like 90% when racing is about 50-60%)
2)-Teams that uses an old soccer Stadium (Lyon in Gerland, Bordeaux in Parc Lescure) where it is often empty.
3)-Small town teams that got a small stadium which is always full (La Rochelle, Clermont, Castres, ect...)
And I think that springboks can use the Soccer City Stadium that was built for the 2010 fifa World Cup as their, right?
The nice thing about Racings stadium is that its very dark. So its really hard to actually tell what the attendance is. It probably my second favorite stadium, I'm going to go to a game there when i go to France. Soccer city can be used for Springbok games but its pretty rare and only for really big games (I think its only been used twice since 2010 for Springbok games) . Games are normally spread around the country like he said.
@@callumscott953 I'm a Racing fan and I can say that the stadium is, not empty, but not full, because often there's only the down tribune that is open. If go to Nanterre have a nice match you'll see it's a very special atmosphere. And so boxs are spreading games around the country like if England played at Old Trafford and France at Marseille?
Yea soccer city, is home to Kaizer Chiefs( a football team). I think the purpose of spreading the games around the country is to share the revenue that comes from international matches between the different unions .
@@yann1462 Yes, thats why i want to go to a Racing game in particular. It looks really unique and interesting. Probably would go to a Champions Cup game though or game against one of the big clubs. Exactly like France playing in Marseilles, Boks will normally play either in Durban, Cape Town, Johannesburg or Pretoria. South Africa is a lot bigger than France or England and public transport between cities is very expensive. So travelling to watch games in one central city like Paris or London is impossible, so they feel like they have to spread the games so everyone gets the chance to watch
@@callumscott953 more like a European scale? Like if we had a European team playing one game in London, the other in Paris and the last in Berlin?
It would be interesting to see a comparison of ticket prices as well (compared to average salaries). That certainly will play a major role in the attendance figures.
Yo! Heard you guys going to be playing some rugga coming June. Its great man pretty stoked, hopefully we can watch here in South Africa on Supersport..
Great vid, you`re coming up with some good content despite the lack of real time rugby. Smaller is not always better though that piece of scaffolding in Christchurch being a case in point. I live in Japan but come back to NZ every year late Feb to late March. Will always make the trek down to Dunners for a Crusaders game if it is on but stopped going to games in CHCH. Interesting that the last Chiefs v Hurricanes game seemed to have a bumper crowd, watched it at a pub in Geraldine, maybe people knew something...
Nice vid mate, thing to remember is that in the premiership they use Twickenham for certain games, Wasps v Sarrie's drew 82,000. Also The pro14 use the Principality and Aviva for big playoff games. All the money in the N/H is in the 6 nations, the unions here turn over £100 Million+ a year, the AB'S only turn over around £30 million, probably less if they don't play the Box.
Another great video, completely agree on getting the sizing right. In Scotland Glasgow used to play at Firhill and got low attendances in a 10k stadium. They moved to Scotstoun in 2012 and it was 4-5k, as the team improved attendances have increased and now near sell out of 7.3k-ish is guaranteed. Results and good Friday evening match day experience have really helped, first under Gregor Townsend and more recently with Dave Rennie. Glasgow’s results will need to improve next season as this one has been poor and losing big local names, Russell, Hogg and Gray will affect some of the interest, Hopefully Rennie’s replacement can address that and some expansion can be considered again. If you watch our semi finals in 2014/15/19 you will see a brilliant atmosphere can be achieved with the right number of fans in a small stadium too.
Edinburgh play in Murrayfield which isn’t really suitable for purpose as a club stadium, however they are building a smaller 7.5k-ish stadium next door for their games and given recent results it should be relatively full regularly. I believe this will be ready during the next season,.
You mentioned the Irish travel well and they do, I also think that a lot of Irish work in the UK so it’s not uncommon to enjoy a beer with a Munster/Ulster/Leinster/Connacht fan at Scotstoun or Murrayfield and they live in the city so watching as an away fan where they now live.
Interesting point mate! It's actually similar that all of the SA teams in Super Rugby here get a decent away pocket or two with all the expats here
Great video thanks Mark, I think one of the issues at least down here at forsyth barr stadium anyway, is the price of beer and food its just far too expensive to be fair.
It's much cheaper to get a box of beer and go round to a mates place, of course it's not the same as going to the game but still it's cheaper.
I did some analysis on this, using the most recent available data. I looked at total attendance and average attendance.
Total attendance:
1. Top 14 : 2.7m
2. English Premiership : 2.0m
3. Super Rugby : 1.7m
4. Pro D2 : 1.4m
5. Pro 14 : 1.3m
6. Top League : 0.5m
7. English Championship : 0.2m
8. MLR : 0.2m
Average attendance:
1. Top 14 : 14.6k
2. English Premiership: 14.5k
3. Super Rugby : 13.2k
4. Pro 14 : 8.2k
5. Top League : 5.9k
6. Pro D2 : 5.5k
7. MLR : 2.1k
8. NRC : 1.9k
9. English Championship : 1.7k
I couldn't find any attendance data for Currie Cup or Mitre10 Cup. From the data available that is 10 million people attending a rugby union club match of which 4 million are in France and more than 2 million are in England. The rest are across 11 nations. This shows why the French leagues have the most money, followed by the English Premiership, and the other clubs have a lot less.
Good stats. Top League was doing really well after the World Cup but had generally poor attendance beforehand.
@@petedudson6671 yes the Top League attendances vary a lot, by season, by team and even by game. But you can see that there is the market there for the professional league they are planning to launch.
My other conclusions were: whilst I love the English Premiership and the Pro 14, there is a big imbalance between England and the other nations, so I would be in favour of a British and Irish league to help the other nations financially.
And also there is a big difference between France and other countries, including England, below the top level. The French Pro D2 is very popular and even some Federale 1 clubs are professional and well supported. Maybe if Britain and Ireland worked together they could build a stronger second tier with clubs like Pontypridd, Ayrshire Bulls and Bedford Blues.
I was listening to @mikefrancesa on @wfan yesterday morning. He said Mother's Day when Mickey Mantle hit his 500th homer theu only drew 18K. He said since then they've drawn 4M twice. Their season is also 81 home games
Japan had a really good average before lock down
can I ask about the source of this data? it is very interesting, thanks!
It's interesting seeing the Pro14 stats as a Glasgow Warriors fan. 2019/20 season wasn't as great for attendance but 2018/19 if I remember correctly we sold out every home game we had, including when the stadium was configured for 10,000 and then close to 50,000 was sold for the Pro14 final in Glasgow, which took place the same day as the Scottish Cup (football) final - which had Celtic (the biggest football club in Scotland) playing. I think it was a similar story for home games in the 17/18 season too. Would be interesting to see if attendance numbers went up if we had a larger stadium, I certainly think it would
My boy with the Bath Rugby flags and shirt hanging proudly! You’ve earned yourself a subscriber
I didn't have a particular team in the Premiership before starting this channel mate, but somehow over time, it has become Bath 😅
Great analysis! Thanks for your hard work. Really interesting content. Appreciate it!
Much appreciated!
This is a great video with no bias at all. It would be very interesting to see TV viewing figures for each league too. I know that many sports like soccer make 100 times more money from TV deals than they do through attendances, so those figures would give another insight in to how many eyeballs are on each league, and why some don't care about how full the stadia are.
Kinda surprised u left out the European cup because that’s by far the most popular. Irish people aren’t really interested in the pro 14 just European cup
Love the video. Will rugby even continue this year 🥰🥰🥰
One more point, matchday in Japan is great , and sometimes we have double header games to attract bigger crowds! It's always fun. Plus you can take in your own beer! haha'
Rugby need really big changes to become a world class product, first adjust some gameplay. Big money comes from TV rights as well. Super rugby needs to do a big reesctructure, too much traveling, too expensive operative cost, super rugby needs to streghten local leagues and do a champions league format as super rugby, i mean like to qualify to the tournament or have a side tornament the includes the best positioned teams of Japan. Japan is a priority for Saanzar, since is the biggest rugby market nowadays. play in smaller stadiums in regular games in order to have a better atmosphere, secondly try to sell a product overseas, Latin America is a really big market, super rugby needs to give some games free rights to latin america, México specially, no just ESPN but in local channels. New zeland and Australia doesnt even have more population than Argentina. Rugby still a minority in South Africa. Super rugby has a too flat format.
Wonderful Video. It's very not surprising the lack of crowd attendance in Super Rugby. It hasn't been the same since very early days.
Well said
Fascinating video. Great work Two Cents Rugby, keep it up!
Much appreciated!
the Hurricanes/Wellington Rugby and Phoenix should come together and try and get a 20-25K stadium built for Football and Rugby somewhere in Wellington the Cake Tin is far to big and the Incorrect Shape
Yeah man I admit I bought a "sideline" ticket there for the Canes v Bulls QF last year. It was my first time there and I wanted to be as close as possible.... I was still miles away from the action... That's one good thing about the Chiefs stadium, made for rugby
Yup
Great vid man 👍🏽 only thing is Leinster play most of their games at the RDS which is significantly smaller than the aviva (they only use the aviva for derby’s, big Heineken cup games or knockout stages of pro 14 which attract larger crowds). Also one other thing is that in most European countries rugby isn’t the main sport, which is contrast to NZ and SA where rugby is the main sport (I know AUS has Aussie rules). In Ireland rugby is only the 4th most popular sport (behind soccer, Gaelic football and hurling) yet we somehow still manage to get relatively big attendances
Possibly due to the fact that our domestic soccer is unfortunately pretty poorly attended and the GAA championship takes place mostly after Rugby finishes for the season. Also I suppose due to the fact that our provinces are competitive in europe and our national team is up there with the best in the world.
It also depends on the location as well, because teams like Newcastle and sale who play up north in England won't have the same attraction as Harlequins as they play in London and only across the road from Twickenham stadium
Good analysis 2C. What about tickets costs?. Would that be a factor with attendance?.
Yeah I'll have to look into ticket prices at some point too!
Yo great break down. I just assumed that NZ had poor match day attendance. So if the crowds are similar, any thoughts on the money discrepancy between the SH and NH rugby?
I reckon it probably costs them more to operate a larger stadium which is already on the back foot, but yeah I'll have to look in to the potential gate take as well - would be interesting to see
A full house in Connaught feels mad. And there's less than 9k in the crowd.
There's always a great atmosphere. Still can't believe we only have eight and a bit thousand in that stadium.
@@cathallawlor989 yeah the upgrade is much needed. They already have a loyal following.
A 8K crowd in Galway, with no seats is better than a 20K attendance in RDS or Kingsspan. We are very passionate, know our rugby and give it socks until the last minute. You often haven't Connacht beaten until the 9 O Clock news, ask Wasps and Gloucester, and the fans play a major part in that.
@@MegaMegamann1 that Gloucester game before Christmas was unreal.
Cause Connaught are shite compared to Leinster and Munster.
Did you include any European Champions Cup games? Im sure that those will bump up the figures quite a lot for the Prem/Top 14/Pro 14.
Its a separate competition so it wouldn't be included. Even so, French top teams, and English top teams are near capacity anyway meaning the average % attendance capacity would not be that much higher
@@callumscott953 Yh ur probably right, but thinking for the Top 14 there stadiums are always fuller in Europe, but I guess cause not all teams from the Prem, Pro14 and Top14 play in the European Champions Cup, but you could also use the challenge Cup as well
Do you think if mabey ticket prices could be lowered would bring in more people? Would be curious to see different ticket prices from around the world.
Ronald K I was thinking just this. If you have lots of seats unfilled you might drop prices to gain volume, but if you do that and you still can’t sell tickets, then you have a problem. So local ticket price (adjusted for local purchasing power variations) would seem to be an interesting factor to consider.
Great video Mark! I think you are on point with Super Rugby, stadiums are simply too big. I went to a Bulls-Highlanders game in 2017 at Loftus Versfeld on a rainy day. Looked up the attendance later, it was about 8%... 😅 Regardless of the quality of the game the atmosphere just wasn't there. Cheap seats though 😜
Yeah man it's pretty sad seeing it as low as it gets.... what's the parking like at Loftus?
@@TwoCentsRugby I don't recall to be honest. Went there by Public Transport. Must have been plenty parking spaces left for that game
I go to most of the Southern Kings games in Port Elizabeth and sometimes they don’t even have 3 thousand people
South africa is having a really having a hard time with attendance. South africa should follow Australias and new Zealand steps to conclude the super rugby in a local leg.
Gerardo Aguilera Aus n Nz are not going local permanently they jus goin local during the Covid 19 pandemic , once it’s finished they are moving back to normal bud
Ye but southern Kings are not even in the super rugby anymore
Great vid yet again two cents !!! 🙌🙌🙌
Thanks again!
The problem is especially in Australia and NZ rugby league is becoming more and more popular through the NRLs history in Australia and excessive media coverage compared to super rugby, with super rugby being showed on the less popular tv channels and the nrl being shown on multiple channels with a massive following.
Tbh the large stadiums might be an issue. I know for Edinburgh the reason we’ve built a new 7,500 seat stadium is the cost of running murrayfield every week is so high. So it could be an issue with earnings for SH sides
Yeah man definitely I know the costs of operating Eden Park are pretty high due to the size
I think teams in Uk are doing well you ever stand socked to the skin watching Ulster in Belfast compared to the great weather in Australia
Ulster is part of Ireland u twat
@@pomuiri4942 go fuck yourself ball bag
Great work and I do like your style. But I've wondered a couple of times in this whether you wouldn't make it more attractive for most viewers by triming it down a little bit and essentially getting the main info out more quickly.
No negative criticism on my part because, as I said, I did like it. Just intended as constructive feedback.
All good man, mainly just me saving time by not having to edit and to be fair I'm a bit sick of all the jump cuts I see in other vids. But yeah you're right it comes down to personal preference
I think this will be another monster for you Mark. Fair play - great watch!!
Would be interested to see the ticket price vs the median income in the countries. Most people I know that stopped going to the games complained about the cost.
Speaking on South African rugby, there are a lot of reasons/aspects to look at. The UK is small and has an easier transportation system compared to South Africa, the love for the game is still there but many of the big rugby fans live on the outskirts of the cities (far from the stadium) so traveling to the stadium becomes a mission. Another reason for the lack of attendance is that the dominance of the competitions success has mostly been New Zealand teams so it feels pointless going to the game when you already know the disappointing outcome. The stadiums are also too big, 50% - 60% of the spectators are die hard fans and the rest are people that make it an outing for the day. Lastly, South African rugby hasn't been at the highest standard for the last few seasons and many blamed the quota system, so white people started boycotting by not going to games, not sure what the expected outcome was supposed to be but it caused more harm to SA franchises financials and this surely didn't benefit anyone because now the clubs cant afford to keep their best players in the country and the cycle would continue to see NZ teams dominate the league because we don't have the talent to compete. I hope winning the RWC proved that the quota system was not the problem and SA rugby will rise up again, also on that same note I hope to see Australian rugby return to their best as well.
Would you say that Local team games are on the same time as super rugby games therefore people rather play for thier local team or watched them, than watch rugby on the TV or go to stadium to watch their team? Becuase I know in the UK loads of people rather do that than watch thier team on TV or go to the game.
I think Edinburgh does not often play in Murrayfield but in a small football stadium. They play in Murrayfied for the derby and other big games.
As a Cardiff born student living in Toulouse, I have to say brilliant jersey selection in the background 😍
Haha that was a happy coincidence 😉
In the pro 14 Glasgow has now a stadium that holds around 11k which is mostly full at every game with them saying how many people are at each match if your there and Edinburgh are getting a new stadium with a capacity of around 19k because murryfeild is to big
Great video man!
The welsh teams are super up and down, the PRO14 I think needs a shake up, since the South African teams joined - no offence to them - it feels like a bit of a bin of a league where all of the crap teams get chucked and id definitely say interest is diminishing, especially because the club calendar clashes so badly with the international calendar meaning the best players are never there in big games.
Great vid. One thing that ought to be mentioned however is the regional rugby issue with super rugby and the pro14 vs club rugby in england and france. Given the geographic area that pro14 teams and super rugby teams cover this makes attendances seem particularly poor to me. It's worth bearing in mind that when you compare the number of fans watching top 14 / premiership rugby where there are 14/12 teams respectively vs just 5 top teams in new zealand, the difference is even more stark. That's the worrying thing, there aren't that many people in nz going to watch top lvel rugby like there used to be.
Yeah I agree mate. The teams seem to be losing connection with their fans. That may be understandable with the provincial model - if I lived in Northland I would maybe not buy in to supporting the Blues as they're based in Auckland and traditionally been a rival rather than an ally
Great video !
Would anybody know how much the Super Rugby teams depend on matchday income (gameday sales,...) in their overall budget ? Are they really taking a hit financially with the low attendance ?
And who owns these massive stadiums because i'm guessing the teams would'nt be able to keep up with the costs of such stadiums?
Cheers for any answers from Belgium
I think mate they get more money from the TV deal, but I know the Aussie teams said if they switch to a round robin - which means fewer local derbies - they'll be suffering in terms of their revenue
Is the NRL the most watched sporting league in Australia? I’m from UK and RL is by far the lesser watched form of Rugby here, however I saw no mention of the NRL in this video. Is it that both disciplines are losing fans or just Super Rugby?
I think it's different state by state over there. The main two seem to be league (15 Aussie teams) and Aussie Rules (18 teams) compared union which only has 4 Aussie Super Rugby teams and the Force. Here in NZ it's more like where you are as we've got 5 pro teams in Super Rugby compared to just one pro league team
Good to see some figures to back up my hunch why attendances never looked great. However I wouldn’t trade in the ABs playing around the country for anything and don’t know it would be justified having huge stadiums like Eden Park and the Cake Tin just for tests,finals and concerts. In the case of Auckland I’d push for the Warriors to move in with the Blues and pool their resources a bit.
You’re right about the match day experience as well. Soggy pies and watered down beer doesn’t compete with pulled pork sandwiches and a proper pint.
Yeah man the match day experience stinks - you have to be well into your rugby to justify going. I can see why casual fans spend their money elsewhere
I know Leicester Tigers were averaging around 23k for home games a couple of years back
Alot of big ticket names that people wanted to see play have moved from the South to the North , like Akkard van de Merwe , Eben Etzebeth, and Cheslin Kolbe and that's only South Africa , I think the main problem is that whenever a great player who people want to watch is playing in the South the Northern Hemisphere clubs swoop in like vultures 😃
Great data. Very interesting to listen too however you completely missed out Wales. Mentioned eveyother playing nation but wales.
Yeah they were middle of the table for the Pro 14 numbers, i think Dragons were on the low side
As with all things ticket sales adhere to the laws of economics. They either need to increase the demand for tickets to the point of people being willing to pay the current price for them (increasing the quality of rugby, atmosphere, marketing, etc) or they need to price the tickets to the current level of people’s willingness to pay for them. I think every rugby fan without a vested interest would favour the latter. Not only would it increase the atmosphere at games but increase the overall home side spirit of a teams fan base. This would intern increase overall interest in the game, which would in turn improve the long term health of the game. Sadly, business tend to prefer the comparatively easy money of paid tv coverage to the risk of relying on ticket sales at the gate.
Yeah man gotta admit when they had a free game for Mitre 10 cup, we still got a decent crowd.....
Great video bud from ireland
The Stormers/WP used to get average crowds of over 35 000 per game. The problem is that super Rugby has killed off local derbies. People want to have natural rivalries but being in competitions where we are dominated by teams from New Zealand has killed off the local game in South Africa. A derby between the WP/Stomers and Bulls was always expected to be sold out. Most South African derbies would fill out Stadiums.Your point about a lack of away fans is valid. More localised competitions means more away fans and more rivalries between teams, which means fans are more invested. Honestly Super Rugby needs to die off, its insane to run a competition over 4 continents. Bring back the Provincial competetions and take Super Rugby back to the old Super 10 format where the best teams play at most 5 games to determine who the best team in the Southern Hemisphere is. Or at least have it be a full knock out competion where teams play home and away Champions League Style. Bring back the Currie Cup to its fomrer glory and you will get healthy crowds in SA at least. I am sure the same could be said for New Zealand. As for Australia, they need to look to the pacific and Japan to build up a decent league
Yeah man there's definitely an issue with the game these days - it may not be as bad as people make out, but it's definitely not in a good way
South Africa is a third world county, we do not have disposable income to go and watch a rugby match, Ellis park is in also not situated in the best area in terms of crime etc. Not to even mention the parking structure!
I agree bro. I usually have someone drop me and my family off. It's even worse when it's an international game.
What parking structure?
@@emilevolschenk6329 😂😂
@@emilevolschenk6329 hahahaha 😂
Thanks for the vid. I thought it was just in oz. Super rugby games over here get no attendance.
I’d be interested to know TV viewing figures. It’s probably harder to do, and if you can’t get attendance at the ground then TV is probably impossible, so maybe combine TH-cam and Facebook highlights views??
Would focusing on mitre 10, currie cup and an Australian league with smaller stadiums then having a shorter super rugby season (sanzar cup?) or do national round robins then top 2 go through etc. Argentina and japan falls through but maybe they need more teams. Interesting to look into them
Yeah man I think that'd attract that fans more, but they want the TV deal which covers all the bases.....
This is very interesting topic. I tried to collect some data a couple of months ago, but it's like you said. One NZ club answered my question about attendance saying that NZ policy is not to publish such data, sooo... :/ It's so hard to believe that in 2012 average attendance in SR was 21 460! Average attendance by club then:
Blues - 17,555
Crusaders - 17,250
Hurricanes - 14,364
Chiefs - 17,632
Highlanders - 16,655
Waratahs - 20,937
Brumbies - 14,419
Force - 13,255
Rebels - 13,914
Reds - 34,480
Lions - 23,589
Stormers - 42,671
Bulls - 33,562
Sharks - 23,984
Cheetahs - 20,266
For me it's shocking! It's propably the biggest attendance decline in any professional SPORT league ever! Cheers from Poland!
Wow those numbers are really shocking compared to these days mate! The Reds especially have taken a massive dip. NZ policy not to publish the data... it's just nonsense mate, I'm not sure how they can get away with it
Been to NZ in 2016 and twice in 2018. Over the 3 visits went to half a dozen games. I did mention the appearance of low attendance and the answer I got was it's too expensive. People complained about the cost and quality of food and drink. Takes too long to get served and in some cases the hassle of getting to the game.
Most people think if the ticket price was less and the food was of better quality and more staff serving it they would make more money.
Could you do a video on your jersey collection as of now?
Yeah I might have to mate!
Thanks for posting
Re Irish attendances, one has to remember that rugby is the only fully professional team sport in Ireland.
Gaelic football isn't? I know in Australia the AFL guys are pro
No, GAA sports are amateur. The point being that Irish rugby (which is doing v well) benefits from being ‘the only show in town’ in terms of attracting spectators
@@johngamba4823 not true Gaelic football is the most popular and most watched sport in Ireland .
Oisín Murtagh - I never said it wasn’t. My point was that rugby attendances in Ireland benefit from the fact it’s the only full professional spectator sport which helps bring in punters
@@johngamba4823
The most accurate and most recent attendance figures were published by Sport Ireland in 2015, and show that rugby is the fourth-best attended sport in the country. They show that Gaelic football is by some distance the best-attended, followed by soccer. Hurling and Camogie are third, well ahead of rugby in fourth.
I'd be interested to see how super rugby compares to the Heineken cup. I feel like this is the better comparison as they are both the top tier of club rugby in both hemispheres
Saw this video pop up on TH-cam somehow, I live in Melbourne and at work people still talk about the footy ( Aussie Rules) around the water cooler. yes it is a pro sport but the teams have heritage, they don't tinker with the competition too much and the season isn't too long...and you can actually watch a game live in the afternoon. For Super Rugby, you cant fly to Japan, Australia and South Africa to watch games, so as a fan, you are disconnected with half of the games 'your team' plays. The games happen at a terrible time, the game has had more alterations than I can even list, and we are still tinkering with it, now all of my friends and family have disengaged with rugby, it belongs to sponsors and I transitioned to video games and binge watching TV on netlfix instead
Two factors to take into account are distances to travel (much shorter in Europe) and population. UK around 55 million and France over 40 million. Smaller stadiums not only look better with smaller crowds, but are a more enjoyable experience for the people attending, and are much cheaper to operate.
Ireland only 5 mil though. And big stadiums.
Here's what a lot of people (if not everyone) up here seem to forget...our super rugby season starts in summer. Stick a Taff and a pom on a paddock in 28 degrees or expect crowds when there's a sunny bar open the attendance up here would be crap...😎
As an American I will probably never get to see a Blues’ game live (thank goodness for ESPN+)
However, as neither a kiwi nor a Brit I will never understand why the brit’s obsessively talk about the attendance numbers of NZ super rugby teams. I have my suspicions but I’ll keep the peace.
Great video mark!
That's because southern hemisphere teams obsessively talk about how teams in the other side of the equator news to do more to help them financially
Vinnie Chan 👍
Haha yeah I admit they do look terrible on camera and they used to be a lot better attended...
53A17 E Do you follow MLR?
USA Rugby League Fan yup. Hopefully it’ll still be there next season
Be interesting to see if you eliminated the outliers (i.e. the top and bottom attendance sides of each league) then recalculated the data.
Most European teams don’t play in great big grounds. You will even have to look at ticket prices as well because that may play a bit of a factor regarding the attendances. On the other hand you may get a lot people in New Zealand and Australia watch the rugby league.
And in Australia rugby is really only played in large numbers at grassroots level, in QLD and NSW. Vic, SA, Tassie and WA along with NT are predominantly Aussie Rules states
Hey man, like the idea of the video, I think a key element that is missing is the economic decline of the Southern Hemisphere countries especially South Africa. When people have lower disposable incomes they cut spending on entertainment. In your example Ireland has a great attendance, they are seeing some of their best economic times at the moment (pre covid 19). The buying power is a lot stronger in the northern hemisphere and that is another reason why those clubs can afford more. There would need to be an inclusion of PPP ( purchasing power parity) to truly analyse this. I have a hunch that you would find that since 2009 S.A. have gradually contributed less financially to commercial success of SANZAAR and IRB and that’s why SA don’t get awarded world cups and influence over the sport than say Japan etc etc however All Blacks are still a massively powerful Brand globally and so there has been more incentive to look after them in that capacity. If people had more money in SA and their teams were winning, the stadiums would be full, but the people are over taxed, unemployed and continually watching our glorious talent moving overseas and sometimes even playing for the opposition. The love for rugby remains and is unrestricted their presence however is subject to their wallets and what the overlords at IRB shall dictate...
The economics might all be a bit above my head mate 😅
Would be interesting to know what the averages are for each of the countries in Super Rugby
Yeah they didn't give the specifics, i would say Stormers are probably the highest individual team
@@TwoCentsRugby I would probably say the Stormers too. Will be interesting next year as The Stormers are moving to Cape Town stadium
Can you breakdown attendance between straya, enzed and sowf efrika? Convinced Eden Park averages less than 5k per game, and is embarrassing when they play crowd reactions over the speaker system
I think that year Eden Park was 9k or so - I think it's usually 10k+ for NZ teams and under for international teams
The answer is fairly straight forward, most of the English premiership rugby club stadiums are exactly that, club rugby stadiums, they are built and expanded to what the club requires. The problem with huge stadiums is that empty or full they cost the same amount to rent, run, maintain and repair.
Very true Porkchop. I am looking forward to Exeter expanding their ground as it is nearly impossible to get a seat with a reasonable viewing area. Being over 80 my Mrs and I can't stand for the whole game. I think they could easily get another 2-3000 for home games especially if they keep up the same standard o fperformance.
Stuff.co.nz did a similar study but had more resources available. The super rugby stats are vastly dropped due to the poor aussie attendances. The stormers have an average crowd of 26,000, the largest of any in professional club rugby. The nz teams have good sizes too
If there wasn't COVID-19, Sharks and Stormers would've certainly increased their numbers as the season went along.
btw in normal conditions I really think that national (NZ only) competition would have better attendance than SR
The jags only sells 3/4 of the stadium and that is usually full
Travelling in SA is not big. I watch nearly every game at Loftus, but even going to Ellis Park which is quite close seems like a hassle. Went there for Currie Cup once, other than that I only travel there for internationals. Went to King's Park 2007 for the final and that was a huge deal, only game I attended that had a lot of traveling fans.
The thing with the Premiership aswell is that England is widely a football loving Nation. Football attendances will always eclipse Rugby attendances. We don't really have a lot of staunch Rugby areas and it's mainly the south who support Union and the North who support League. Bath, Gloucester, Exeter (to an extent), Northampton and Worcester are the only Premiership teams that are probably the biggest sports teams in the area. Even Leicester and Bristol two of the largest supported Rugby teams in England are in areas where football is the dominant sport.
Hi I am a data analyst who is also a diehard rugby fan. I have been doing attendance analysis for the northern hemisphere which I occasionally post of /r/rugbyunion. I have made multiple requests for data from super rugby as a fan and a curious observer and have never received a response
Wow very cool mate - well except the part about them not replying. There is some data which can be scraped from a few places. But yeah generally I think they are under instructions not to publish all games which is frustrating
What you also need to take into account is the price. Last Stormers game at Newlands was R150 each. Decent seat, but not the best. Beer R55 each....total spend, excluding Uber is around R370 per person. No food or snacks yet. A family of 3 ...R800?
Yeah man same story in NZ... for a night out to a game I could be doing a lot of other things
The biggest in Australia is stadium Australia/ANZ stadium. It holds in excess of 80,000 people
Most of these teams don’t really have a culture as well. Most of them are not as old as Northern Hemisphere teams. Like Waratahs & QLD reds being the oldest teams in the competition and most of the English and French sides date back to the 1800s. Some of these super league teams were just created in the 90’s. They have to have culture. This is just one point I have noticed.
You should do Six Nations vs The Rugby Championship. I live in Italy and I hardly ever watch Super Rugby matches on the TV (bc they broadcast in Southern Hemisphere time, which is late night here). Today I was hearing a podcast from a prominent Italian rugby commentator and I was surprised when he said that in the SH they are struggling to get a decent attendance, and then your video popped up in my timeline! I can understand the low attendance in Australia (where perhaps there’s more interest in either rugby league or Australian football) but the low attendance in New Zealand is pretty much inconceivable for me!
Yeah mate it would be interesting to see how they compare. The video has also made me consider why NZ's attendance isn't great.... it's a small country with not that much going on - why aren't people at the rugby!?
Two Cents Rugby yeah, I mean, Union is the national sport down there isn’t it? In Italy, Association gets a disproportionate share of fans, so that kind of justifies the low attendance in Pro 14 (plus, the two Italian franchises are based in relatively small cities and not that successful either). Still, when the All Blacks came to play Italy in Milan in 2009 they sold out at a 80k seats stadium! Perhaps the New Zealanders prefer watching sports on the sofa, I wouldn’t judge them too harshly 😅
@@carmelobarnaba yeah man exactly! How are the football crowds in Italy? (Before lockdown of course)
Two Cents Rugby well the stadia look pretty well crowded in the TV, and apparently that’s growing by the year. I got curious btw and went looking at some data and doing some maths. The average stadium capacity is just above 40k seats (with the smallest stadium being 16k and the biggest 76k). The average attendance is 27k fans per game (the top one being 64k fans, the bottom one 13k). The average share of seats that are used per stadium is about 70% (with two teams just below 96%).
Pretty solid mate, I thought I had seen issues with attendance with football but that may have been a while ago
Leinster only play in the Aviva against Munster and a Heineken cup game in December
Yeah mate it's probably skewed the numbers a bit. Likewise all 5 of the NZ super rugby teams play at least one game at a small regional stadium per season - I didn't include them either so both competitions numbers will be a bit off
I got to go to my first and only super rugby game when I went to South Africa in February. Stormers v bulls and I was pleasantly surprised that the stadium was quite full. I got lucky I suppose
Usually the Stormers games are pretty full
That’s a really interesting video mate. Wondering is the pro 14 average figure skewed a bit by the fact that The Aviva is included? Pretty sure the Aviva is used for Leinster Champions League games and Pro 14 games against other Irish Provinces.....but the vast majority of Leinster Pro 14 games would surely be played at the RDS (capacity 18,500) ?
Anyway, regardless....it’s definitely a perception problem in the Southern Hemisphere....Empty stadiums everywhere, lack of atmosphere.....but as you say....not necessarily a lack of fans. Nice video 😊
Only Munster at Aviva if even that for Pro14 all Leinster games at RDS
Yeah true man, it'd probably look a bit healthier without the Aviva in there, that being said Super Rugby would look a bit healthier too if I included some of the regional stadiums they use ;)
I have an idea why don't chango duper rugby toa Saanzar champions league beetwen the winners of each southern country league?
In the UK we have a population of 65million+ so our numbers for the prem are much lower when looking at percentages. We also have football (soccer) to compete with, as well as other sports such as cricket. How does Super Rugby do when compared to other sport?
Thanks for your time
Yours
Chris.
I know in South Africa the sport (at least from my outside look) seems to be traditionally split along racial lines. Their football teams have a lot more support - Kaizer Chiefs have 3 million odd fans on Facebook but the Super Rugby teams there are in the hundreds of thousands.
Australia is dominated by Rugby League and Aussie Rules - Union would be top 10 but still on a level with basketball, football etc.
NZ - it's the number one game, games should be sold out (although I know there are other sports around the world which aren't selling out so maybe it's partly a sign of the times)