From what ive seen of him discussing he stood by his decision but naturally what came after was not great the results were more american imperialistic meddling in the region
Him and Bush were practising Christians. I suspect they thought the Muslim world was like the Christian one once you take away the dictators. Not to be.
He actually let that go, except briefly at the end. He gave no details of the unholy alliances between church and fascism. Was he pulling his punches with his war ally?
Anybody who drags Stalin into any conversation couldnt be any further from the truth. We the west, created that issue, by proclaiming Communism the next enemy after Nazism was defeated. Let us not forget who sacrificed the most from WW2. And what do we do? Build an armoured wall around The USSR or modern day Russia. Stalin was a by product of western collaboration to weaken The USSR and bring down the slavic peoples, Kosovo ring any bells?
@@jonathanrussell1140No, if there was another round of rebuttal I’m almost certain he would have gone after Blair for asserting that fascism had the eradication of religion at its core (and that this was somehow a reflection of/a responsibility for atheism to deal with).
@@GreenPlasticWaterCan really what was it like in ancient rome id like to hear julius' opinio9n on that or maybe the debaters in the teniis court of paris after the revolution no even better what would the many political parties from before the rise of the nazis say? HUH? YOU GOOD SIR OR MADAM ARE A DEFEATIST. When will the world end ? BC you sound very much like someone hitchens was just arguuing against. thank you 😏
It's rare to have debated Christopher Hitchens and come out unscathed. He was a linguistics and intellectual Ninja that could filet the best and brightest with the wave of a hand. His breadth of knowledge from ancient Greece to current events was unparalleled.
I am a huge fan of both Hitch brothers. You don't have to agree to appreciate their thinking. C Hitch gives a very clear explanation of why he supported Iraq war. It's one of the few that I disagree with but respect.
He was a lecher and reactionary against the Church in the vein of Crowley. Hitchens was a charlatan who ignored the ontological argument entirely. The only thing he achieved is increasing human misery.
Dying of cancer, the man unflinchingly takes on the world. Hitchens is a legend. Meanwhile, Blair trots out the "No True Scotsman" argument. Lame and unworthy of Hitchens even showing up.
Well if you had been paying attention to what he was saying then you wouldn't have said that. Blair was simply making the point that not ALL religious people wreak or preach death and destruction. An obvious point only an idiot or, in Hitchens' words, an intellectual would miss.
John Westcott I don‘t care for Blair, but I have to say the fact he still accepted a debate against Hitchens, with his great wit is rather courageous. I mean even if he would have won the debate and not been continually outclassed by Hitchens, then still he would have looked bad wouldn’t he? I mean he is debating somebody so clearly sick and dying, how can one call it a victory? Blair must have been aware that he would never come out of this debate looking good, no matter the outcome. But by accepting despite that, he allowed Hitchens to make one final great and memorable stand against Religion. I am very glad that this debate took place.
@@naerua9267 That is the "no true Scotsman" fallacy. You have to look at general results, not single examples, to get the true answers. Hitchens uses single examples because they are compelling, but the statistics are on his side.
I must profess i only discovered Christopher after his passing. His name was dropped in many conversations but i was in a different mindset back then. They world has lost a great thinking and human being. I hope he inspires more people to take up the fight.
Don't be sad if we leave half as much of an impact as this great man in ours lives we will have lived well. Millions are born and die every day but only the few will be remembered as this man will.
Asked for an example of religious people doing good, Blair cites people from different religions working together to overcome the faith divide. Hitchens: "Why does this 'faith divide' exist in the first place?" :) Bullseye.
I suppose one could ask the same example of atheists doing good and get a similar reply for divisions in their faith. They certainly all don’t think alike or agree in unison.
@@Imjustsayin99 Atheists certainly don't all think alike, that's correct; because the only thing you can say for sure that two atheists will have in common is not believing in gods. Atheism isn't a faith, though; it's "not-faith." The absence of faith. Bill Maher said it best: "Atheism is a religion like abstinence is a sex position."
@Imjustsayin99 In their what? Did you say "faith?" You might want to rethink, then reword your comment if you'd like to be considered serially. Not knowing any better is okay. Refusing to learn and improve is.
His Brother usually did but that's likely due to him having the benefit of hindsight in their debates on Iraq. I'd say Galloway probably got the better of him as well
You only have to look at Blair throughout this debate to see he was almost embarrassed to be on the same stage as Hitchens. His facial expressions showed him to be as much in awe of Hitchens as everyone else, whether you agree with Hitch or not.
Poor Tony, It’s a hard enough defending the so blatantly guilty, but defending the guilty against Christopher Hitchens means you’ve lost even before you start.
that was the most enjoyable content. trouble is, BLIAR has no sense of guilt or shame. Like all catholics, they hide behind their faith, that is, they have faith that they are untouchable.
I think there was something wrong with the video when I watched it. Every time it was Tony Blair's turn to talk, the same piece of video just kept playing over and over and over. LOL
Blair is a amoeba of intellect when stood next to the giant that is Hitchins... he spouts the same crap every time , he purposely slows down speaking and leaves long gaps in every spontaneous response... so he can think of the appropriate garbled crap --( Africa , Faith , both religious and non religious people do bad... same old same old shite )... this War Criminal just gets given a platform again and again and again... WHY ?? he has nothing to add to the debate on anything ... many words said , nothing meant ... a total B%£TArd , who should be tried for his crimes against humanity -- IN THE NAME OF BEING A POODLE TO AMERICA , AND A POLITICAL ANIMAL OF THE WORSE POSSIBLE KIND
Me: Turns British accent on Sorry my good Sir Mr. Blair, but your fellow countryman Mr. Hitchens has as the Americans say "Intellectually murdered yo ass!!"
You'd have to be incredibly wrapped up in your own self-importance and smug arrogance to take on Christopher Hitchens in this arena. Enter Tony Blair ... right on cue.
Huh? If anything it shows a lot of courage in Blair, someone that Hitchens himself admired a lot. Which other world leader would dare take on Hitchens like this?
Brian Delaney I have no comment on Hitchens my comment comes from my experience with Blair in a more general sense and in particular in relation to N Ireland. I watched him knowing lie to the faces of victims and widows. He is a thoroughly distasteful character
@@briandelaney9710 Hitchens excelled in (anti-) religious debates. But I am not a fan of his politics. I think his politics was too heavily informed by his anti-religious views. In fact, his political stance was sometimes all over the place, in my opinion. Having said that, I must add that although I have the same opinions as him as far as most of his religious views are concerned, I am not always in total agreement with him. And this, I think, is the main point of his message. That though we may disagree on some points, at least we do so based on rationality, and not by faith.
Blair : increased faith schools in UK and has created a society of religious ghettos which is leading to a dangerous road of religio-political sectarianism should the UK suffer a serious economic shock
I once went to a remembrance Sunday service in Stornoway, Scotland. The argument made by the minister was that what the middle East needed to stop the violence was more religion. I kid you not. Ffs
To hear the words 'human compassion and love' issue forth from the simpering Blair is really quite revolting. Just look at him nowadays; the man's poisoned by the guilty conscience of which he is unable to admit - even to himself. He was outclassed in all ways by the brilliant, much missed Hitchens...
TheSteelStallion One of the most duplicitous creature on the planet. His claims on the Good Friday Agreement are false, he swooped in at the last minute to claim the glory is his usual playlist. Mo Mowlam put most of the groundwork RIP Mo. I'm a socialist therefore I can't stand the war criminal, the teller of lies, the biggest slimy toad of them all who hijacked the Labour Party for his own ends. There is a fair chance that he is hijacking the Church of Rome for the same purpose, they deserve each other. I love Christopher Hitchens RIP Christopher.
Huh??.....That is EXACTLY why they designed "Fast Forward".....lol.....(Although I DO listen to C.H's opponents the FIRST time I watch a debate.....out of respect for their bravery in attempting to debate The Hitch.....on religion of all things......like watching a Brazilian Ju-Jitsu Black Belt fight a drunk wobbling out of a pub!)
Oh they love throwing Einstein and a few others into that. Obviously not forgetting that Hitler, Mao, Stalin and the rest of them were avid atheists, doing what they did in the name of atheism. I might go and massacre a small country because I don't believe in faries.
@@athenaminerva8954 he believed in a Spinoza type of god, kind of a pantheism but was at pains to say he didnt believe in the classical theism so not personal god that has a pan and answers prayers.
I love when we finally get to audience questions. Thats when Christopher really shines, getting off script of his usual opening statements and rebuttals.
Yes, Christopher, in most of his debates, was always keen to move to audience questions and it's clear why; he is the master of the unscripted. His ability to think on his feet in the most eloquent way I found genuinely awe-inspiring. Mr. Hitchins was a rare breed of intellect, articulation and moral adroitness.
In virtue of simple statistics it is true that there will be good religious people, who do good deeds, but this cannot be an argument for supporting delusional fairy tales.
This was more of an argument as to why religion is a force for good. It might shock you, but those "delusional fairytales" are what changed the world for millenia the same way the ideologies of the 20th Century changed the world.
28 minutes in, and Blair is already repetitive and losing ground, to a weak and miserable wrap-up. Then there's the irritating moderator, who should sit down and be quiet.
Blair means well but anyone gullible enough to convert to catholicism in middle age, and to believe creationism should be taught in British state schools here in the home of Darwin, should be very careful about sharingva debate with someone as brilliant as Hitchens.
He publicly "converted" to Catholicism ( he always secretly was one) as there has never been a Catholic prime minister as they have primacy to the pope and not royalty - after he was ousted, he was then free to "convert"
It is a pleasure to listen to two people, that are much smarter than myself, debate an issue. Even when I may disagree with one or both, I feel better for spending the time to listen.
Even the immortal hitchens could only barely make me hold on through Blair's incoherent, generalized and repetitive babble. So outmatched it detracts from the victory.
Tony Blair was on the defensive from his first word and remained on his back heels throughout this debate. Not that Tony is a poor speaker, but Christopher simply has the facts on his side and knows how to articulate them.
Again, as I've said before in my comments - Christopher was one the most important human beings of our time - who will ever replace him - thank you and wish you were still with us.....
A few points from someone very much on Hitchens’ side: - this is Hitchens’ specialist subject, whereas Blair has had to spread himself very thinly, so it’s not surprising that Hitchens prevailed; - Blair is and always was conciliatory in his approach and wanting to reach a middle ground (like moving his political party towards the centre), so it’s not surprising that it was more of a negotiation on his part; and - it’s tedious to hear Blair still being called a war criminal in the comments; the outcome would have been very different had a proper post-invasion plan been in place. Overall, I wonder who has done more good in the world in their lifetime, Blair with what he has done or Hitchens by saving people from a life beholden to religion.
We all want hitchens and others like him back to speak up for us or to be voice of reason in goofy times like 2020 and the years leading up to it, the silver lining is all of us writers, readers, intellectuals, debaters etc, have a great blueprint to learn from and communicate these ideas to others with our own personal twist.
I was expecting Blair to have a convincing new argument to make but I was foolish to think that. There isnt a new argument to put forward just the same tired 'no true Scotsman', whatabouterry, appeals to authority and lauding the charitable work of religions. Hitchens walked this.
Can you imagine having stage 4 cancer, going through the horrors of chemo and yet still showing up to debate a former PM in front of thousands and mopping the floor with your opponent? Amazing guts from CH
My experience of the religious is horrid! From the bullys in my original church, to the minister there who blamed ME for being sexually attacked by another man, to working with ministries where I was mistreated and told I was wrong despite their needing my technical skills. I have a religious friend (a director at one of the ministries) finally quit because he was hurt by the ministry he had helped for over 14 years, told me that his new (and religious) firm quit working with the second ministry I worked for due to the fact their management was so dysfunctional.
One of my very favorite opinion page cartoons had the main idea expressed, "Here I am the last livin' Irishman and I can't remember whether I'm Protestant or Catholic!"
Your first perception is always correct you should never buy the same car if the first was a constant failure a ministry a ministry it will not matter which religion you try said the spider to the fly call round to my Webb for dinner tonight you can stay a while That wrapped that up.
👏🌹♥️🌹Preliminary results posted on the Munk Debates website from an audience poll suggest Mr. Hitchens won the debate, with 68 per cent of those who handed in a ballot at the end of the night saying they favoured the con side and 32 per cent agreeing with Mr. Blair. Wow didn't know this existed👌, what a powerhouse conference by two obviously very gifted speakers. Wish there was more of this out there. 🌹♥️🌹
Yep, you got it. It's a good job that the title isn't "The evisceration, decapitation, sodomisation and general murder of Tony Blair by Cristopher Hitchens" might have given you too much of a clue.
Hahaha. Even Hitchens once uttered “My God!...” (as an expression of outrage) in a debate against a Rabbi about the mutilation of babies genitalia. I had to rewind quite a few times to get my head around Hitchens saying “My God!...” hahaha.
Christopher Hitchens really dominates. What a great man of such exact words he has no match. I am from India and worship his eloquence his mind and phenomenal memory
There you go we worship God you worship men we both have a religion to which we direct worship and therefore this debate was a misnomer. He’s was a sophist who used emotional arguments and rhetoric to spin his narrative that appeals to some people he has a certain charm but he certainly didn’t win this debate and actually it did a lot to dismantle the common finger pointing at religion. “It is better to trust in the Lord Than to put confidence in man. It is better to trust in the Lord Than to put confidence in princes.” Psalm 118:8-9
The most distinct difference is you worship a fairytale without a shred of evidence for it. I could worship a dog and it be more meaningful then worshipping a god. #dogs not gods
@@exjwukmusicalescape9241Why are you so ready to liken the very reasonable practice of lauding and admiring competent and talented people to the vile and horrid practice of worshipping the blatantly evil deity yahweh. Your accusation is utterly empty and your assertions are as vapid and worthless as your do called "holy" book.
@@tulpas93 First Yahweh is a construction of modernist scholars it doesnt appear in the Holy Bible. If God is God then it is your interpretation and twisting of scripture that is blatantly evil because they that turn from God will play God. If I'm evil for having the KJV as my final authority then so be it, 'at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father' 'there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one' 'This is the true God, and eternal life. Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen'
The title of this video is misleading. It should be "Tony Blair vs. Tony Blair, and Cristopher Hitchens wins." Seriously!! Without a speech writer, Mr. Blair is complete rubbish! Spends literally half of his time arguing against his own point!
Blair's arguments were hedged about with so many weasel words and feeble rationalizations, he seems to have created an entire hedged fantasy park the size of London, floating uselessly in the abstract space of wishful "thinking." Blair's attempt to rescue religion from its sordid and pretentious history of false, violent sanctity is as spectacular a failure as was his support for the Iraq war.
I looked up the final vote. 68% hitch, 32% blair. I am shocked. Everyone says that's a sweeping victory for hitch. But 57% agreed with him coming in. They split the undecideds almost exactly evenly (21% intially undecided, 11% to hitch, 10% to blair). The effect of the debate is the CHANGE in opinions of those present. With rounding, measurement error, a few abstainees... That is a draw! How is that possible?
People pretend to be someone else on line. People write letters to their mother without the whole truth. A few people take dark secrets they tell not even their closest friend all the way to their grave. People lie to please their invisible friend and tell whoppers to amaze a possible mate. Everyone lies. Everyone including you.
No, Hitch won as he had more than 2/3rds of the votes. Your logic assumes that it was only the undecided that moved camp (and clearly they did), but there may have been swings from those who had pre-conceived notions too. You have to go with the absolute figure: 68% Hitchens, 32% Warmonger
@@peterscottmorgan1 No. The absolute number is an indication of what people who attend such things believe on average. The change from pre to post is the indicator of the effect the speakers had. I agree that people could have switched from decidedly agreeing with Hitch to agreeing with Blair or vice versa. But the net effect of treatment was that Blair increased his portion of the crowd by the same % as Hitch... Which I still can't believe. Astounding.
Great debate. Hitchens was, as usual, impeccably accurate and convincing, except for his two most recurrent mistakes, which he made at minute 54, roughly. Besides calling a country (USA) by the name of a continent (America), he also insisted on saying that USA is "unique" in its constitutionally stated separation between church and State. Uruguay, among several other countries in America, has a Constitution in which the State is strictly separated from any religion and, unlike USA, this constitutional principle IS ACTUALLY APPLIED in Uruguay.
It's all relative, it's both true and wrong that America is a continent. I'm in Europe and I've not once been taught that NA and SA are separate continent. To me America is a continent and certainly not a country. It depends where you are from, there are different ways for contries to define continents. And yes I totaly agree, I'm glad that there are more countries like mine with a separation between the Church and the State. The US are not alone in this, and they also do a poor job at it, because for instance presidential candidates simply cannot reasonnably hope to convince people and be elected unless they swear on a certain holy book.... I really enjoy Hitchens speaking, but yes he was wrong on this one point :)
“America” is colloquially used in place of “USA”, so it is not a “mistake” to say “America” when referring to the United States…I don’t know how you make it through life if that’s the sort of thing that bothers you.
The problem of religion is that individuals can't and won't keep it a personal belief, but always seem to want to push it onto others or some, by force.
Tony Blair is waaaaaay out of his league here. Trying to punch above his weight class with the Hitch is not recommended. Christopher Hitchens wiped the floor with this clown.
@Brian G a miracle is meant to be unbelievable. It can only be believed if there were sufficient enough evidence for it. Question is, how much evidence on the event do we have
@@f44had that is flat out wrong. There is no "atheist world view". The term atheist refers to someone who does not believe in the gods that have been proposed.
@@Nick-hk2vz An persons concept and philosophy of life has direct correlation with him being an atheist or theist or skeptics or otherwise. The fact a person maybe an atheist does not make him exempt. Perhaps you are defining the term world view different to me. So maybe you can start by defining the term. But make no mistake, atheist do indeed have a 'world view'.
@@f44had that's rubbish. Firstly there is no atheistic world view - its a response to a single question about the existence of god or gods . The atheist isn't convinced that's it - Good and evil are the domain of the theist and theologians
To me Christopher is a worship worthy figure to intellectuals who seek truth & stand for it till the last moment of the life ... fighting with honour, integrity when blind & deaf people (religious people) attack you for that ... Christopher's accomplishments will always inspire his followers to continue spreading his works even though he himself is not here ... World will surely miss this great man ...
Exactly unlike the Abrahamic deity, who DEMANDS worship and thereby deserves absolutely none, Christopher spurned adoration at every turn. ... and not out of some performative modestly as he was able to take a straightforward complement graciously.
Bruh, wtaf was wrong with this crowd? They got told _explicitly_ to clap when time was nearing an end. What do they do? Clap after every f*ckin thing Hitchens says and overpower him. How is this respect? Were these people all drunk or raving mad? Were they actually against Hitchens and trying to shout him down? No matter what it was, it makes this an absolute pain to listen to. I hope they all are ashamed of their behavior whenever they recall it.
Watching these debates of Christopher Hitchens raining blows upon his near defenseless opponents, I sometimes find myself respecting his opponents for agreeing to the contest with such weak and terrible positions to argue. I sure wouldn't want to do that. Give Tony Blair and the rest an A for effort. Then kindly throw their wicked, nonsensical ideas on the ash heap of history.
The second worst decision by Blair after the Iraq war was debating Hitchens
Ironically Hitchens would disagree. He'd say debating him was a far worse decision.
Yes. Tony was on a roll.
hitchens also supported the iraq war and later regretted
@@slyboyhanne did he ever regret it?
From what ive seen of him discussing he stood by his decision but naturally what came after was not great the results were more
american imperialistic meddling in the region
He fought till his last breath. Well done HITCH.
Good polemicist: but WAAAAY WRONG ON HIS SUPPORT GOR IRAQ WAR. GENOCIDALLY WRONG.. no tiny mustake. A HIGE SCAR on his legacy
The irony of Tony Blair defending religion is almost beyond belief
Him and Bush were practising Christians. I suspect they thought the Muslim world was like the Christian one once you take away the dictators. Not to be.
Hitch fans will know this - every time someone speaks of Hitler or Stalin as examples of atheist mindsets, THEY ARE ACTUALLY WALKING INTO AN AMBUSH.
He actually let that go, except briefly at the end. He gave no details of the unholy alliances between church and fascism. Was he pulling his punches with his war ally?
Stalin. Orthodox monk. Hitler. Austrian Catholic. Come on people do ur homework.
Anybody who drags Stalin into any conversation couldnt be any further from the truth.
We the west, created that issue, by proclaiming Communism the next enemy after Nazism was defeated.
Let us not forget who sacrificed the most from WW2. And what do we do? Build an armoured wall around The USSR or modern day Russia.
Stalin was a by product of western collaboration to weaken The USSR and bring down the slavic peoples,
Kosovo ring any bells?
That is awesomeness... pulling punches.I hope Blare thank him.
@@jonathanrussell1140No, if there was another round of rebuttal I’m almost certain he would have gone after Blair for asserting that fascism had the eradication of religion at its core (and that this was somehow a reflection of/a responsibility for atheism to deal with).
Here in '22.. I never tire of such a great discussion/debate with mutual respect and control.
Hitch a true legend...
Do we know the final vote results?
Especially in '22 or '23 now, having a respectful debate seems impossible. It's a terrible thing.
@@GreenPlasticWaterCan really what was it like in ancient rome
id like to hear julius' opinio9n on that or maybe the debaters in the teniis court of paris after the revolution
no even better what would the many political parties from before the rise of the nazis say?
HUH?
YOU GOOD SIR OR MADAM ARE A DEFEATIST.
When will the world end ? BC you sound very much like someone hitchens was just arguuing against.
thank you
😏
Respect to Hitch
@@GreenPlasticWaterCan you just have to know where to look I’d argue. Cosmic skeptic (Alex) has great calm debates with respectful apologists
This should remain in history as 'The Massacre of Tony Blair'
Hitchens did this type of anti-religion presentations almost for a living.
So Blair did well considering.
ugh your comment made me cringe so hard
The same could be said for literally any day in which he spoke to a conscious audience
I thought his massacre was what he did to 8 or 9 hundred Irakis a few years ago...
It's rare to have debated Christopher Hitchens and come out unscathed. He was a linguistics and intellectual Ninja that could filet the best and brightest with the wave of a hand. His breadth of knowledge from ancient Greece to current events was unparalleled.
Hitchens was one of the most eloquent human beings ever,. The beauty of his language is absolutely extraordinary. I could listen to him all day
patrick garner he was wrong on the Iraq war ... he was only human after all
I am a huge fan of both Hitch brothers. You don't have to agree to appreciate their thinking. C Hitch gives a very clear explanation of why he supported Iraq war. It's one of the few that I disagree with but respect.
don't you have a fucking job!
Same here. I am delighted to listen to him argue in such impeccably eloquent English.
He was a lecher and reactionary against the Church in the vein of Crowley. Hitchens was a charlatan who ignored the ontological argument entirely. The only thing he achieved is increasing human misery.
Christopher Hitchens annihilates ex-PM's between chemo's. Legend.
If you're created sick how would one still believe their pure?
Dying of cancer, the man unflinchingly takes on the world. Hitchens is a legend.
Meanwhile, Blair trots out the "No True Scotsman" argument. Lame and unworthy of Hitchens even showing up.
Hear, hear, absolutely so.
Just badly advised. I don;t think he thought he'd be so out of his depth. Alas, he was.
Well if you had been paying attention to what he was saying then you wouldn't have said that. Blair was simply making the point that not ALL religious people wreak or preach death and destruction. An obvious point only an idiot or, in Hitchens' words, an intellectual would miss.
John Westcott I don‘t care for Blair, but I have to say the fact he still accepted a debate against Hitchens, with his great wit is rather courageous. I mean even if he would have won the debate and not been continually outclassed by Hitchens, then still he would have looked bad wouldn’t he? I mean he is debating somebody so clearly sick and dying, how can one call it a victory? Blair must have been aware that he would never come out of this debate looking good, no matter the outcome. But by accepting despite that, he allowed Hitchens to make one final great and memorable stand against Religion. I am very glad that this debate took place.
@@naerua9267 That is the "no true Scotsman" fallacy. You have to look at general results, not single examples, to get the true answers. Hitchens uses single examples because they are compelling, but the statistics are on his side.
Hitch debates on another level. Blair doesn't come close here. Hitch disects the detail where Blair genaralises.
Christopher Hitchslaps everyone
Disagree. I'm a Hitchs fan of course, but I think Blair did quite well here.
@@Aramis7 it's healthy for you to be wrong sometimes
Exactly, a highlight is “Africa”
@@vhseshproductions2378 ??
This is a slaughter... Hitch is killing Tony... again and again and again....
Bebbeth Oh if only.
Tony have nothing to say, delusional sadly… as for Hitch simply the best!
I must profess i only discovered Christopher after his passing. His name was dropped in many conversations but i was in a different mindset back then. They world has lost a great thinking and human being. I hope he inspires more people to take up the fight.
different mindset ? DUDE !
I'm addicted to listening to Hitch on TH-cam.
Every time I see a video of Christopher hitchens, my heart is filled with sorrow. That such a mighty character is no longer wish us.
Hitchens: God doesn't exist.
God: No you.
For us who know him he will always be with us, in our minds and in out hearts!
Miracles do happen , Hitchens is one of the greatest.
Don't be sad if we leave half as much of an impact as this great man in ours lives we will have lived well. Millions are born and die every day but only the few will be remembered as this man will.
@@stevecritcheson4067 THE IRONY. Y’all atheists basically worship him at this point lmao
Tony Blair's only argument he brings up all the time: "But some Christians do good things..."
77
Asked for an example of religious people doing good, Blair cites people from different religions working together to overcome the faith divide. Hitchens: "Why does this 'faith divide' exist in the first place?" :) Bullseye.
I suppose one could ask the same example of atheists doing good and get a similar reply for divisions in their faith. They certainly all don’t think alike or agree in unison.
@@Imjustsayin99 Atheists certainly don't all think alike, that's correct; because the only thing you can say for sure that two atheists will have in common is not believing in gods.
Atheism isn't a faith, though; it's "not-faith." The absence of faith. Bill Maher said it best: "Atheism is a religion like abstinence is a sex position."
@Imjustsayin99 In their what? Did you say "faith?" You might want to rethink, then reword your comment if you'd like to be considered serially. Not knowing any better is okay. Refusing to learn and improve is.
No one on that Hitchens has ever debated could match wits, logic or intellect with him. He's always a pleasure to listen to.
His Brother usually did but that's likely due to him having the benefit of hindsight in their debates on Iraq. I'd say Galloway probably got the better of him as well
George Galloway wrecked him.
@@ravenmusic6392 they both argued against Hitchens regarding the Iraq war,,,not religion
“My point is really simple” - said Tony upon realizing he ran out of imagination to make his point valid.
Poor tony... Hitchens smashed him good! ahah what a legend... i feel bad he's not around anymore, he was such a brilliant human being.
Hitch is truly amazing.
You only have to look at Blair throughout this debate to see he was almost embarrassed to be on the same stage as Hitchens. His facial expressions showed him to be as much in awe of Hitchens as everyone else, whether you agree with Hitch or not.
Agree completely 🥰😆
Agreed,furthermore Blair was a total embarrassment in this debate.
A ghastly,greedy individual who did nothing for the UK.
Blair knows he was fighting a loosing cause on this subject. He was Tromped on every argument.
@@graemeyetts3465he did quite a bit actually and shown but multiple election victories
Poor Tony, It’s a hard enough defending the so blatantly guilty, but defending the guilty against Christopher Hitchens means you’ve lost even before you start.
that was the most enjoyable content. trouble is, BLIAR has no sense of guilt or shame. Like all catholics, they hide behind their faith, that is, they have faith that they are untouchable.
he has totally missed the point ! good old Blair
Never feel sorry for Blair
@@boorhaave5880Why not, he was right. Not all religious people are satanic bastards.
Btw Hitchens was pro-Iraq even retrospectively, I agree with him but it’s not exactly a talking point against Blair in the context of Hitchens.
I've watched each and every one of Hitches debates over and over and over again and still, full joy. What an orator, what a brain!
I’m the same. I’m in total awe of his intelligence. What a mind and what a loss to the human race. Gone too soon.
You can tell Tony couldnt wait to get off that stage... 😂 R.I.P Hitch
Blair surrounded himself by yes men his actions never came back on him
More like RIP Tony. Lol
Rest in P?
I think there was something wrong with the video when I watched it. Every time it was Tony Blair's turn to talk, the same piece of video just kept playing over and over and over. LOL
No, that’s real Tony. He repeats himself. Always.
Blair is a amoeba of intellect when stood next to the giant that is Hitchins... he spouts the same crap every time , he purposely slows down speaking and leaves long gaps in every spontaneous response... so he can think of the appropriate garbled crap --( Africa , Faith , both religious and non religious people do bad... same old same old shite )... this War Criminal just gets given a platform again and again and again... WHY ?? he has nothing to add to the debate on anything ... many words said , nothing meant ... a total B%£TArd , who should be tried for his crimes against humanity -- IN THE NAME OF BEING A POODLE TO AMERICA , AND A POLITICAL ANIMAL OF THE WORSE POSSIBLE KIND
My god I thought I was the only one 😂
1:36:28 - "Ladies and Gentlemen, Brothers and Sisters, Comrades and Friends..." I always like it when Hitch says that.
Me: Turns British accent on
Sorry my good Sir Mr. Blair, but your fellow countryman Mr. Hitchens has as the Americans say "Intellectually murdered yo ass!!"
You sound like Dick van Dyke hee hee
A Briton would not say "good sir" . Sir is a noble appointment issued by the crown.
Or a Briton might say Mr Hitchens head is too far up his ass.
You'd have to be incredibly wrapped up in your own self-importance and smug arrogance to take on Christopher Hitchens in this arena. Enter Tony Blair ... right on cue.
Indeed
Huh? If anything it shows a lot of courage in Blair, someone that Hitchens himself admired a lot. Which other world leader would dare take on Hitchens like this?
Absolutely.
@Johnny Dong When?
Blair is a duplicitous and thoroughly distasteful character.
Bob Cargin The thing is , both Hitchens and Blair supported the Iraq War
Brian Delaney I have no comment on Hitchens my comment comes from my experience with Blair in a more general sense and in particular in relation to N Ireland. I watched him knowing lie to the faces of victims and widows. He is a thoroughly distasteful character
@@briandelaney9710
Hitchens excelled in (anti-) religious debates. But I am not a fan of his politics. I think his politics was too heavily informed by his anti-religious views. In fact, his political stance was sometimes all over the place, in my opinion.
Having said that, I must add that although I have the same opinions as him as far as most of his religious views are concerned, I am not always in total agreement with him. And this, I think, is the main point of his message. That though we may disagree on some points, at least we do so based on rationality, and not by faith.
Probably why the catholic church took him in.
Blair : increased faith schools in UK and has created a society of religious ghettos which is leading to a dangerous road of religio-political sectarianism should the UK suffer a serious economic shock
I love when Hitchens says "l won't be talked to in that tone".CLASSIC!
This debate, not unlike locking a pit bull and a bunny rabbit in a small room together, yielded predictable results.
I'd say a doberman. More sophisticated😂
I am in absolute shock that I just watched someone bring up the situation of Northern Ireland in a pro-religion argument 🤦🏻♂️
I dont see why its the direct cause of all the strife there . Saying it isnt so is half of the problem
I once went to a remembrance Sunday service in Stornoway, Scotland. The argument made by the minister was that what the middle East needed to stop the violence was more religion. I kid you not. Ffs
@@idio-syncrasy What the hell do you expect fro a minister?
To hear the words 'human compassion and love' issue forth from the simpering Blair is really quite revolting. Just look at him nowadays; the man's poisoned by the guilty conscience of which he is unable to admit - even to himself. He was outclassed in all ways by the brilliant, much missed Hitchens...
Hitchens walked this.
Well if you weren't sure about it before ...here we are now & Hitchens is the truth✊❤
Blair didn't stand a chance.
Tony Blair 58mins: All I ask for is that we religious people have a right to speak in a democracy... Oh and all the tax breaks we can get...
BEST COMMENT OF THE NIGHT ON TH-cam
The only negative with the majority of Christopher Hitchens debates is having to sit through the parts of the slimy and rambling people he's debating.
TheSteelStallion One of the most duplicitous creature on the planet. His claims on the Good Friday Agreement are false, he swooped in at the last minute to claim the glory is his usual playlist. Mo Mowlam put most of the groundwork RIP Mo. I'm a socialist therefore I can't stand the war criminal, the teller of lies, the biggest slimy toad of them all who hijacked the Labour Party for his own ends. There is a fair chance that he is hijacking the Church of Rome for the same purpose, they deserve each other. I love Christopher Hitchens RIP Christopher.
Huh??.....That is EXACTLY why they designed "Fast Forward".....lol.....(Although I DO listen to C.H's opponents the FIRST time I watch a debate.....out of respect for their bravery in attempting to debate The Hitch.....on religion of all things......like watching a Brazilian Ju-Jitsu Black Belt fight a drunk wobbling out of a pub!)
@@jenniferholden9397 well said
Peter Hitchens has answered every question his brother asked
Travis Keeler haha nice analogy more like a wing Chung no touch master vs Royce Gracie. ( Bullshit vs Skill)
At least he admitted being a terrible politician, thats the only bit he got right
He is even worse now trying to stop us getting out of Europe when there was a fair vote. I wish he'd put his money where his mouth was.
Y5
He spoke well and had a good opening statement.
Mr Albert Einstein was not a believer, very dishonest there tony Blair.
Oh they love throwing Einstein and a few others into that. Obviously not forgetting that Hitler, Mao, Stalin and the rest of them were avid atheists, doing what they did in the name of atheism. I might go and massacre a small country because I don't believe in faries.
@@w8m4n stalin did what he did for his political views.. idk about the other two though
I THINK PEOPLE TRY AND SAY AT THE END HE WAS.
Einstein wasn't an atheist, either, by his own admission.
@@athenaminerva8954 he believed in a Spinoza type of god, kind of a pantheism but was at pains to say he didnt believe in the classical theism so not personal god that has a pan and answers prayers.
Why does 2010 look like 1995
maybe because you are a snowflake? 😂
@@hanspetersen648 tf is that supposed to mean
I love when we finally get to audience questions. Thats when Christopher really shines, getting off script of his usual opening statements and rebuttals.
It's the highest netless act on the thinnest wire, over all our heads.
Yes, Christopher, in most of his debates, was always keen to move to audience questions and it's clear why; he is the master of the unscripted. His ability to think on his feet in the most eloquent way I found genuinely awe-inspiring. Mr. Hitchins was a rare breed of intellect, articulation and moral adroitness.
@@peterscottmorgan1 Christopher Hitchens could have made a great president of the U.S.A had he been born in the states
@@davidgregory5371 well he was officially a US citizen so could he be technically ?
@@jonfromtheuk467 you have to be a natural born citizen of the US to be president. Citizenship isn’t enough sadly
I haven't watched this yet but I'm looking forward to Blaire getting his ass handed to him.
idiot, who is blaire?
I love Hitchen's humour and wit. It's fascinating!
"Good" parenting is key to replace organized religion, to teach proper values.
In virtue of simple statistics it is true that there will be good religious people, who do good deeds, but this cannot be an argument for supporting delusional fairy tales.
This was more of an argument as to why religion is a force for good. It might shock you, but those "delusional fairytales" are what changed the world for millenia the same way the ideologies of the 20th Century changed the world.
I would hate to go up against Christopher on any topic
Hitchens was a poser and a charlatan. Any decent apologist would have had him for breakfast.
28 minutes in, and Blair is already repetitive and losing ground, to a weak and miserable wrap-up. Then there's the irritating moderator, who should sit down and be quiet.
Blair means well but anyone gullible enough to convert to catholicism in middle age, and to believe creationism should be taught in British state schools here in the home of Darwin, should be very careful about sharingva debate with someone as brilliant as Hitchens.
He publicly "converted" to Catholicism ( he always secretly was one) as there has never been a Catholic prime minister as they have primacy to the pope and not royalty - after he was ousted, he was then free to "convert"
It is a pleasure to listen to two people, that are much smarter than myself, debate an issue. Even when I may disagree with one or both, I feel better for spending the time to listen.
Even the immortal hitchens could only barely make me hold on through Blair's incoherent, generalized and repetitive babble. So outmatched it detracts from the victory.
Tony Blair was on the defensive from his first word and remained on his back heels throughout this debate. Not that Tony is a poor speaker, but Christopher simply has the facts on his side and knows how to articulate them.
Again, as I've said before in my comments - Christopher was one the most important human beings of our time - who will ever replace him - thank you and wish you were still with us.....
Tony Blair even lies to himself how ironic !
A few points from someone very much on Hitchens’ side:
- this is Hitchens’ specialist subject, whereas Blair has had to spread himself very thinly, so it’s not surprising that Hitchens prevailed;
- Blair is and always was conciliatory in his approach and wanting to reach a middle ground (like moving his political party towards the centre), so it’s not surprising that it was more of a negotiation on his part; and
- it’s tedious to hear Blair still being called a war criminal in the comments; the outcome would have been very different had a proper post-invasion plan been in place.
Overall, I wonder who has done more good in the world in their lifetime, Blair with what he has done or Hitchens by saving people from a life beholden to religion.
Nail on the head, my friend
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@Alex May The answer to that is undoubtedly Christopher Hitchens, although it might take some time before his reach is recognised.
Mr Waffler being outclassed by the maestro! Love watching Bliar talk himself into oblivion. All can be done without religion!
Just as the world gets on perfectly well without Hitchens.
I actually had to skip when Tony spoke .
Don't you speak poodle?
shows how objective you are, like all atheists.
I cant listen to war criminals either
We all want hitchens and others like him back to speak up for us or to be voice of reason in goofy times like 2020 and the years leading up to it, the silver lining is all of us writers, readers, intellectuals, debaters etc, have a great blueprint to learn from and communicate these ideas to others with our own personal twist.
I was expecting Blair to have a convincing new argument to make but I was foolish to think that. There isnt a new argument to put forward just the same tired 'no true Scotsman', whatabouterry, appeals to authority and lauding the charitable work of religions. Hitchens walked this.
Debating Blair is like shooting fish in a barrel for Hitchens.
Ahhh Hitch. No one could stand against you!
Can you imagine having stage 4 cancer, going through the horrors of chemo and yet still showing up to debate a former PM in front of thousands and mopping the floor with your opponent? Amazing guts from CH
As Richard Dawkins said, doing good in the name of religion doesnt mean religion itself is good or true.
Not even when people love their enemies or do good to those who hate them or pray for those who persecute them
Hitchens vs Blair is the debate equivalent of Einstein taking on first graders at math camp.
I remember watching this on live stream. Fantastic debate. I still find Blair a creep and someone who increased sectarianism in the UK.
Mountain of a man 💔💐
Molehill more likely.
I genuinely cannot remember a single point Tony made. I may be biased.😂
Meshellshesells it seemed to me that he only made a single point. Stretched the same unconvincing point across several minutes each time he spoke.
If you did make one, I missed it also. And it wasn't worth remembering
My experience of the religious is horrid! From the bullys in my original church, to the minister there who blamed ME for being sexually attacked by another man, to working with ministries where I was mistreated and told I was wrong despite their needing my technical skills. I have a religious friend (a director at one of the ministries) finally quit because he was hurt by the ministry he had helped for over 14 years, told me that his new (and religious) firm quit working with the second ministry I worked for due to the fact their management was so dysfunctional.
One of my very favorite opinion page cartoons had the main idea expressed, "Here I am the last livin' Irishman and I can't remember whether I'm Protestant or Catholic!"
Your first perception is always correct you should never buy the same car if the first was a constant failure a ministry a ministry it will not matter which religion you try said the spider to the fly call round to my Webb for dinner tonight you can stay a while
That wrapped that up.
Blair, appeared as a silly grinning schoolboy. So massively intellectually outdone by the logic and eloquence of Hitchins. Amazing
👏🌹♥️🌹Preliminary results posted on the Munk Debates website from an audience poll suggest Mr. Hitchens won the debate, with 68 per cent of those who handed in a ballot at the end of the night saying they favoured the con side and 32 per cent agreeing with Mr. Blair.
Wow didn't know this existed👌, what a powerhouse conference by two obviously very gifted speakers. Wish there was more of this out there. 🌹♥️🌹
I haven't even watched it yet, and already i have to comment. This is gonna be HILARIOUS... lol
Yep, you got it. It's a good job that the title isn't "The evisceration, decapitation, sodomisation and general murder of Tony Blair by Cristopher Hitchens" might have given you too much of a clue.
Post debate result:
PRO: 32% CON: 68%
Imagine a time when free speech was legal in Canada. I miss those days.
I could only wish to hear his thoughts on Trump today....L.O.L..
Tony Blair only delivers nefarious dismal orations, just like he did while in office.
God I miss Hitchens! (No pun intended)
Not a pun. Irony, perhaps. CH was very impassioned about the accuracy of language.
Hahaha. Even Hitchens once uttered “My God!...” (as an expression of outrage) in a debate against a Rabbi about the mutilation of babies genitalia. I had to rewind quite a few times to get my head around Hitchens saying “My God!...” hahaha.
Christopher Hitchens really dominates. What a great man of such exact words he has no match. I am from India and worship his eloquence his mind and phenomenal memory
There you go we worship God you worship men we both have a religion to which we direct worship and therefore this debate was a misnomer. He’s was a sophist who used emotional arguments and rhetoric to spin his narrative that appeals to some people he has a certain charm but he certainly didn’t win this debate and actually it did a lot to dismantle the common finger pointing at religion. “It is better to trust in the Lord
Than to put confidence in man.
It is better to trust in the Lord
Than to put confidence in princes.” Psalm 118:8-9
The most distinct difference is you worship a fairytale without a shred of evidence for it. I could worship a dog and it be more meaningful then worshipping a god. #dogs not gods
@@exjwukmusicalescape9241Why are you so ready to liken the very reasonable practice of lauding and admiring competent and talented people to the vile and horrid practice of worshipping the blatantly evil deity yahweh.
Your accusation is utterly empty and your assertions are as vapid and worthless as your do called "holy" book.
@@tulpas93 First Yahweh is a construction of modernist scholars it doesnt appear in the Holy Bible. If God is God then it is your interpretation and twisting of scripture that is blatantly evil because they that turn from God will play God. If I'm evil for having the KJV as my final authority then so be it, 'at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father' 'there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one' 'This is the true God, and eternal life. Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen'
@exjwukmusicalescape9241 Ghastly. Sorry for your loss. I hope you get better someday!
The title of this video is misleading. It should be "Tony Blair vs. Tony Blair, and Cristopher Hitchens wins." Seriously!! Without a speech writer, Mr. Blair is complete rubbish! Spends literally half of his time arguing against his own point!
Believe me I have more,,, Hitchens encyclopedias
Why would there be 'Faith divide' in the first place?
Blair's arguments were hedged about with so many weasel words and feeble rationalizations, he seems to have created an entire hedged fantasy park the size of London, floating uselessly in the abstract space of wishful "thinking." Blair's attempt to rescue religion from its sordid and pretentious history of false, violent sanctity is as spectacular a failure as was his support for the Iraq war.
Blair stating that "true religion is embracing someone that is different" 😂 Such a laughable argument
Being an Atheist doesn't in any way make anyone smarter, but being religious does make people say incredibly stupid nonsense!
One of the many things I take away from this is Blair applauding Hitchens at the end. We need this level of respect back in public debate.
I looked up the final vote. 68% hitch, 32% blair. I am shocked. Everyone says that's a sweeping victory for hitch. But 57% agreed with him coming in. They split the undecideds almost exactly evenly (21% intially undecided, 11% to hitch, 10% to blair). The effect of the debate is the CHANGE in opinions of those present. With rounding, measurement error, a few abstainees... That is a draw! How is that possible?
People pretend to be someone else on line. People write letters to their mother without the whole truth. A few people take dark secrets they tell not even their closest friend all the way to their grave. People lie to please their invisible friend and tell whoppers to amaze a possible mate. Everyone lies. Everyone including you.
No, Hitch won as he had more than 2/3rds of the votes. Your logic assumes that it was only the undecided that moved camp (and clearly they did), but there may have been swings from those who had pre-conceived notions too. You have to go with the absolute figure: 68% Hitchens, 32% Warmonger
@@peterscottmorgan1 No. The absolute number is an indication of what people who attend such things believe on average. The change from pre to post is the indicator of the effect the speakers had. I agree that people could have switched from decidedly agreeing with Hitch to agreeing with Blair or vice versa. But the net effect of treatment was that Blair increased his portion of the crowd by the same % as Hitch... Which I still can't believe. Astounding.
22/55 coming in. 32/68 going out. A clearer win for Hitch.
Do people not understand the original comment here!
Great debate. Hitchens was, as usual, impeccably accurate and convincing, except for his two most recurrent mistakes, which he made at minute 54, roughly. Besides calling a country (USA) by the name of a continent (America), he also insisted on saying that USA is "unique" in its constitutionally stated separation between church and State. Uruguay, among several other countries in America, has a Constitution in which the State is strictly separated from any religion and, unlike USA, this constitutional principle IS ACTUALLY APPLIED in Uruguay.
It's all relative, it's both true and wrong that America is a continent. I'm in Europe and I've not once been taught that NA and SA are separate continent. To me America is a continent and certainly not a country. It depends where you are from, there are different ways for contries to define continents.
And yes I totaly agree, I'm glad that there are more countries like mine with a separation between the Church and the State. The US are not alone in this, and they also do a poor job at it, because for instance presidential candidates simply cannot reasonnably hope to convince people and be elected unless they swear on a certain holy book....
I really enjoy Hitchens speaking, but yes he was wrong on this one point :)
“America” is colloquially used in place of “USA”, so it is not a “mistake” to say “America” when referring to the United States…I don’t know how you make it through life if that’s the sort of thing that bothers you.
hahhahahhahaaaa...hahhahahahahahaaaaa....you ar enot clever man
The problem of religion is that individuals can't and won't keep it a personal belief, but always seem to want to push it onto others or some, by force.
That biplane engine is really starting to annoy me :'D
Biplane =Blair same monotony
LOL
Lol it must have mid air refuelling because every time I come back to this debate there it is droning away in the damn background……✈️🛩🛩
Chemo-Hitchens had so much swagger
This is absolutely fantastic, you can hear it in Blair's first rebuttal that he has given up. He knew there and then that he had had lost.
I THINK HE KNEW THE 2ND HE OPENED HIS MOUTH
Tony Blair is waaaaaay out of his league here. Trying to punch above his weight class with the Hitch is not recommended. Christopher Hitchens wiped the floor with this clown.
As an atheist I feel slightly offended that I'm deemed incapable of behaving properly or doing good without believing in a stupid comic
Good and evil has no meaning in an atheistic world view. Even I can admit that.
@Brian G a miracle is meant to be unbelievable. It can only be believed if there were sufficient enough evidence for it. Question is, how much evidence on the event do we have
@@f44had that is flat out wrong. There is no "atheist world view". The term atheist refers to someone who does not believe in the gods that have been proposed.
@@Nick-hk2vz An persons concept and philosophy of life has direct correlation with him being an atheist or theist or skeptics or otherwise. The fact a person maybe an atheist does not make him exempt.
Perhaps you are defining the term world view different to me. So maybe you can start by defining the term. But make no mistake, atheist do indeed have a 'world view'.
@@f44had that's rubbish. Firstly there is no atheistic world view - its a response to a single question about the existence of god or gods . The atheist isn't convinced that's it - Good and evil are the domain of the theist and theologians
1:32:49 This is one of the best arguments I've ever seen. A bad Idea can be the inspiration for a good action. It does not give validity to the idea.
To me Christopher is a worship worthy figure to intellectuals who seek truth & stand for it till the last moment of the life ... fighting with honour, integrity when blind & deaf people (religious people) attack you for that ...
Christopher's accomplishments will always inspire his followers to continue spreading his works even though he himself is not here ...
World will surely miss this great man ...
Exactly unlike the Abrahamic deity, who DEMANDS worship and thereby deserves absolutely none, Christopher spurned adoration at every turn.
... and not out of some performative modestly as he
was able to take a straightforward complement graciously.
Bruh, wtaf was wrong with this crowd? They got told _explicitly_ to clap when time was nearing an end. What do they do? Clap after every f*ckin thing Hitchens says and overpower him. How is this respect? Were these people all drunk or raving mad? Were they actually against Hitchens and trying to shout him down? No matter what it was, it makes this an absolute pain to listen to. I hope they all are ashamed of their behavior whenever they recall it.
Although Blair looked pretty good when debating in Parliament, here he’s out of his league.
Ahh, what I would have given to have a seat in this audience....
Blair just blagged his way through this! As per usual
Rabbit VS Lion
Watching these debates of Christopher Hitchens raining blows upon his near defenseless opponents, I sometimes find myself respecting his opponents for agreeing to the contest with such weak and terrible positions to argue. I sure wouldn't want to do that. Give Tony Blair and the rest an A for effort. Then kindly throw their wicked, nonsensical ideas on the ash heap of history.