Buying my Presage was purely a 100% emotional decision. You are right: It IS overpriced and you COULD get a far better watch for the price. Yes, microbrands DO offer superior quality for lower prices. But the thing is - at the end of the day, it's still a Seiko. Simple as that. Talk about paying $1,200 on an Apple iPhone, when $400 will get you better features and a superior camera in the Android world. If we follow the argument of "this watch is overpriced for what you get", almost every major swiss luxury watch brand will fall into that category. Hell, why even bother buying a mechanical watch, when even your microwave could tell the time more accurately?? It's not always about rationality and value for money - especially not in the watch world!!
100% agree. Anyone that complains about accuracy on mechanical watch just doesn't get it. And you're right, regardless of the technical prowess of a pressage, it's still a Seiko and just as respected as any swiss watch brand. I've gotten compliments on my green dial cocktail time from dudes wearing Royal Oaks, Daytonas, and JLC's... For the money, you just can't beat it.
It depends on who you ask but for me a brand isn’t why you get a watch, as I said getting a watch is up to you and the main thing is that it’s a watch you like and if you like the presage that’s great for you! It’s just annoying that brands like that seiko that have so much money and expertise go out of their way to cheap out on their watches when micro brands with not even 1% of the resources are producing better watches for less money
Non! He doesn't even understand that Hardlex isn't ordinary tempered glass, it's what Gorilla Glass is, a special critical glass developed for optics and it's even nearly as reflective as sapphire, and you can tell the difference because it's chemically different. He's just a no nothing ditz!
I Guess many Brands Will squeeze a big Margins from one of their watch (low cost prod, high price), may be Presage is one of them, and when some one realize it, Seiko should make an improvement, Cause it is a Seiko
I do agree with the lack of a sapphire crystal. I think it's extremely lame that Seiko puts a mineral crystal on these, but I don't think any of your other arguments are justified. The movement is fine and accuracy on an automatic watch is highly overrated and everyone knows Seiko movements are far more accurate than the official stats claim. If accuracy is that important to you, buy a quartz watch. 50m water resistance? How is that a problem on a dress watch? Hell, even the Hamilton Khaki Field is only 50m, and it's supposed to get wet! You'll be able to wash your hands and get caught in a rain storm without any issues. Not a valid argument for a dress watch. The strap: I own the green dial cocktail time with the leather deployment strap and I honestly don't know why everyone hates on it so much. I find it to be incredibly comfortable, durable and it looks great too... I just don't understand. Ok, maybe it's not Horween Shell Cordovan, but it's honestly a great strap and doesn't get the love it deserves. Can't speak to the bracelet as mine only came with the leather strap, but I do think you might have a valid argument there. The finishing: You claim the finishing is terrible, but I can't see a single defect or fleck of dust on mine. It looks flawless. Now I'm also not looking at it under a professional macro lens or jewelers loop... But neither is anyone else, so why would I care? It's a $300 Seiko, no one is putting that thing under a microscope . All I can say is that the dial on the cocktail time is simply beautiful. When the light hits the dial and indices... My god it's one of the best looking watches out there, especially the green dial with the gold seconds hand on that leather strap... MmmMm. Makes me smile every time I glance at it. I will admit that I almost didn't pull the trigger on my cocktail time because of the mineral crystal, but I'm glad I did and it's my favorite watch. That being said, I got mine on sale for $300, so well below full retail. I may end up putting a sapphire crystal on it, you can get one for $99 which would put it back up close to the full retail price, but we'll see. All I can say is that love my cocktail time and I think the beauty of the dial more than makes up for the lack of a sapphire crystal. Show me a watch with a better looking dial for less than $1,000.
These are all valid and interesting point my friend! Thing is for me I’ve seen a handful in pertain and they’ve run an average of around 20 or so seconds a day with a few at 6 a day and a few at 50 a day, thing is the worst part about cheaper seikos these days is the abhorrent quality control, you just got lucky you got a good one! Also the finishing is only just passable, very basic and industry standard but when you look up close much more irregularities and issues than other watches in the same price range Also the dials can look nice and they are up there for the money, but the dials being the only part that are good value just isn’t enough in my opinion End of the day most important thing is to get a watch you live, and not listen to anyone telling you it’s bad me included (Also second hand or below retail the presage isn’t all too bad)
@@WatchConnoisseurClub With accuracy that bad, you have been extremely unfortunate and very rare! and I have known seiko owners for all my life so have handle on expections, I would call any watch that inaccurate a faulty unit and sent it back to the Company to be put right or replacement. The other thing to consider is, are these watches exposed to strong magnets through work or music studios etc... if so the simple answer is do buy a cheap de magnetisor, or get a Casio for those occasions.
@@WatchConnoisseurClubbe honest, affordable swiss watches designs are subpar compare to seiko. mido, rado, glycine, tissot, you name it and microbrand only good on specs on paper, trust me, i've been there, i used to think my san martin watch is great, great specs, saphhire, ceramic bezel, great finishing. but you know what? after 5 years the indices fall apart, the paint on the hands are pelled off. the other hand, my 7 years old seiko 5 still like new, dial, hands, case, are still crisp, only minor scratch on hardlex crystal, that u can change for sapphire for $30, but i can't change the dial and hands in san martin.
None of the brands you mention come close to how good the Presage dials are. I respectfully disagree. Some of the cocktail times are just stunning for the price and most of all, some of the special edition dials are Grand Seiko level quality for Seiko money, such as the Tokyo Dawn, or the Castle in the Sky releases.
You have some valid points, but complaining that a dress watch only support 50m water resistance is just ridiculous, who cares if it's 50m or 100m it's completely irrelevant. I don't own this watch yet, but will probably buy one soon and for me the bottom line simply is that this is by far the best looking watch in the kind of sub $500 price range, and even better looking than a lot much more expensive watches. The other watches you mention and show in this video just doesn't come even close to the looks of the Presage and at the end of the day for 99% of consumers the main purpose of a dress watch is that it looks great, and if you can find a dress watch for around $500 that looks anywhere near as good as the Presage I would love to hear which one that is, because I haven't been able to fine one.
♻ still searching for 4R57, more precisely parts for this movement, the 31 star for the day hand is very fragile, and i already have 2 movements bought with this part broken : where to find it ? ♻
I have 5 SEIKO presage watches, and they are all very beautiful. One has an ARITA PORCELAIN DIAL ( and all hand-made ) exquisite workmanship. I don't think the boy who made this video had much real knowledge or expertise in the area of fine SEIKO watches.
Ah, at least someone is echoing the same views. Seiko’s presage, sports, king seiko, and these abrupt anniversary editions or reinterpretations are total rip offs today. As a cerebral buyer who doesn’t get blown over by a brands history, I’d say that seiko is no longer a common man’s watch brand that it used to be. And a watch’s heart is its movement. There’s no point in shelling out extra bucks for a not-so-good budget watch with a movement that it’s not up to the mark. I’d rather pay far less for orient bambino and get a better dress watch with a better movement. I think, apart from seiko’s astron, Seiko’s other product lines are not giving customers what they loved about seiko for at least a century.
Yes, I overpaid for my Presage Style 60’s for the entry level specs .. but the dial is absolutely stunning. I haven’t worn my more expensive Swiss watches in months. I occasionally tend to them to give them a wind, but I am “still” in the longest honeymoon phase of all time for what was suppose to serve as a reliable work watch is now my daily driver for the foreseeable future. You are right that QC with Seiko is hit or miss..I think I’m lucky. I enjoyed your video and I will subscribe :)
I'm really pleased to hear you like your 60s style Pressage. They really are beautiful watches. I'm considering the road trip. I just fancy a GMT. It's been on my radar for a while now.
I have a Seiko presage and its not mineral. It's definitely sapphire. It Doesn't scratch. Has no dust inside it. (I magnified it) Perhaps i pay extra just for the Seiko name. But i'm satisfied. I agree that they could have made it waterproof and not just water resistant. But mine has been under water by accident before and it turned out to be fine. And every end of the week i have to adjust it like "1 minute" or something. But any automatic mechanical watch isnt as precise as a quartz watch. And that also counts for Rolex. Seiko was actually the inventor of quartz. And makes great reliable mechanical movements.
I don't see this as being reasonable criticism, with the exception of the lack of a sapphire crystal. On that point, I agree. First, it's important to state the obvious, which is that mechanical analogue watches are little more than jewelry and that if you actually wanted an effective time measurement device, you would run a digital Casio with a stopwatch, date and alarm. The reason manufacturers persist with mechanical watches is to tap into buyer nostalgia and to justify high prices with the excuse of "the craftsmanship and horology". The movement isn't interesting to anyone except an enthusiast and you really won't notice the time difference until a week or more has passed, assuming you even bothered putting it on a winder. What you want in a watch is a nice face and nice case design. As a functioning piece of jewelry, the Presage lineup delivers where it matters. The faces look great, the case and finishing on every Presage I've seen in a shop (as well as one I bought for a relative) looked fine, and I have better than 20/20 vision. Under a microscope they might look bad, I've never done that myself, but who cares. Some people struggle to read street signs when driving, let alone notice a smudge on a polished indices. You said the leather band is bad, but what you failed to mention is that as an overall package, the leather deployment strap is a perfectly fine package. It's comfortable, should last a couple of years before cracking and if you REALLY hate the budget genuine leather, you can always get a custom full grain strap made by a leathersmith for a couple hundred, install the Seiko deployment clasp and swap it onto any other watches using a 20mm lug as desired.
No the orient star is better value, sapphire crystal and orient as a brand has much better quality control then seiko, the orient star is a great pick!
I was choosing between the Presage and a Cream Bambino. On my wifes advice, i went for the Bambino, as it was more versatile. Im very happy with my decision, plus it was about a quarter of the price! Its become my default dress watch.
Thank you so much for this video. I have been saving money to buy a nice watch and I had my eyes over the Presage for a while, and thank to you I have save my money.
Thank you , How do you feel about the Seiko Prospex Alpinist - SBdCO91 ? I'm more of a Casio type dude but I'm getting older slowing down & trying to enjoy life before the wicked arrive .
Seiko designs beautiful watches and then ruins them by cutting corners with materials, manufacturing them with poor quality control, and then charging too much for them. They weren't always this way, but that is their new reality.
I bought a new one, but only paid $325. With leather strap. Don’t need to paid full price. You are right about the movement. But the crystal is fine. I have some vintage Seiko watches with plexiglass crystals. No scratches. But show me a better dial! You can’t. A simply gorgeous dress watch.
Fair enough! Getting second hand or on sale they’re good value I know where I could pick them up more like $200 range (for a cocktail in good condition) but at full retail price they’re just pretty bad :p
Pfffff. I got a whole collection of Seiko and never found or experienced all the crap you're saying. 4R35 a 35 $ movement ? High maintenance ? Low accuracy ? You just don't know nothing about Seiko or maybe you sell the crap you mentioned as alternatives.
No I don’t sell anything this channel doesn’t make a penny for me, also the majority of seiko owners in the comment section agree with me, the 4R35 is reliable yes, but has abhorrent finishing, is cheaply mass manufactured and has barely passable accuracy When a $500 seiko has a 4R35 when microbrands have an nh35 (unbranded 4R35) in their sub $100 watches you know they’re overpriced Also search for NH35 online you can get them new for as little as $15 Also maybe you’re lucky but seiko are known for their abhorrent quality control and overpriced watches, good watches yes, but overpriced And before you say I don’t know enough I’ve owned many seiko probably 5 times more than you and yet I’ve had these issues countless times, also read the comment section where 80% of people agree and say they’ve had the same issues
@@WatchConnoisseurClub i calculated again and it slashes 7 - 8 sec a day and its normal. No scratches on glass or dial in 2 years. I don't understand why you criticize this watch so much. My watch does not match what you said. My friends who use this series are also very satisfied.
What are you buying it for? If you're looking for a utilitarian watch, that ticks all the boxes for $400, buy a microbrand, If you want a sexy as hell watch to wear during cocktail time, buy the seiko.
I agree with some things you say. It is overpriced like most of seikos these days. They do have qc issues but thats why i go and pick the one i want from an ad. Hardlex/mineral should be used for divers or even field watches. I dont agree with what you said about the movement. The 4r35 or nh35 is used by incredible amount of microbrands and as far for the accuracy, they always more accurate than the specifications. And you dont service it every couple of years! You service a seiko when it stops or keeps a really bad time and in that case you swap the movement in less the amount of a service. Could be years and years. You pay for the brand name! And seiko dials are some of the best ones out there! For the price range. I dont know where this hate for seiko coming from, presage owners all love their watches. Maybe its bc they are above 40 and their eyesight isn't good no more.. 🤷♂️
Haha! Like I said the presage isn’t terrible for the price there’s much worse in the price range, but it’s just not why all these people hype it up to be, the movement is bad for the price (nh35 should be in more like $150-$200 watches not the $450 presage line) and the crystal is cheaper out on, the strap is alright but the bracelets are abhorrent and for the $450 microbrands are straight up better with no question I don’t agree with buying a watch for the brand but fair enough, and the dials are pretty nice for the money but they’re not the best in the market like some people say
@@WatchConnoisseurClub i do agree that some reviewers hype the watch to increase the sales, Someone like teddy. When i started my collection i used to be subscribed to his channel. But i hate to see youtubers loading videos for paud promotion on every single video! Like, are you kidding me? Who do you think youre fooling? I hope you wont.. Ill be watching you..
Nah you're right. Those are the exact reasons Ive been hesitant to pull the trigger on the Pressage. The braclet and lack of Sapphire make me stay away.
Hi Rudi... Found your video while researching for Seiko SRPG25j1. Well now I'm not so sure, all the microbrands you mentioned is not available in Indonesia and the orient bambino only offered with mineral crystal dome. Do you have any other recommended automatic watch with sapphire under 500 USD?
I used to be a Seiko’s fanboy, but not for the last few years… I buy a lot of watches the only psychos I’ve purchased in the last few years I’ve been re-purchases of older models or picking up discontinued models that I always wanted. I’ve moved to micro brands and other big brands like Hamilton/Tissot/Citizen/Casio, etc..
I own a presage and i bought it because I liked the looks first of all. It really is gorgeous. I have no issues with scratches on the glass or dust inside. Not disappointed except for the leather strap, it really does not seem worthy, but that’s easily changed without any tools and it was the first thing I did. Accuracy is -3 seconds per day which is very acceptable for me. Only thing I agree upon is that it could be cheaper, but so does my car, my restaurant etc.
"Do this, don't do that..." I am fed up with those so called "expert". Why your point of view would be better than the purchaser's ? Are you watchmaker ? Did you spend 20 years in selling or repairing watches ? If not, please, let us do what we want with our needs, our taste, our experience.
Never once did I say don’t buy it and if you read comments you’ll see my firm opinion that buying what you want is more important, the reason I made this video is because large watch TH-camrs are saying how amazing and perfect the presage is so they can sell them on their websites, however 90% of people I know and also have got comments on we’re disappointed with the presage because of poor quality control, basic cheap movement, average finishing and a terrible strap/bracelet for the price point
@@WatchConnoisseurClub Title of your video : "Do NOT buy the Seiko Presage!!". Your answer : "Never once did I say don’t buy it"... Ok guy. Seiko : Turnover = $1,3 Billions. Not so bad for a so poor watchmaker.
@@WatchConnoisseurClubI agree with you all the TH-camrs are full off crap , this is overpriced garbage, you are buying the dial here everything else is sub par quality.. Softlex , 4r35 , shouldn’t have a date .. it came with a 6r35 in 2010
I have the Seiko Presage in green. As much as I hate to admit it, youre right regarding the finishing (one of my hands has a nick in it) and jiggly-ness of the bracelet. Definirely coild be better. Sapphire would have been nice. 50m water resistance is more than enough though. Appreciate you calling it is, earned a subscriber.
Overpriced? yes. As bad as you say? I am wondering are you sure all the ones you have seen are real seikos? Because the market is flooded with fakes that do pass as the real thing yet then have all the issues you state. Checking the ones i have and I can't see the same issues you talk about. And yes the movement is a bit basic but most perform much better than the basic specs say. Don't forget the specs are much wider than needed because it allows seiko to not repair or regulate every movement that is not as good as most of them are because doing that chews up the profit margin in one go. I have taken a few apart and this issue with debris or other contamination is just not a thing. And this movement is the same one most micro brands use but just with a diff part number eg NH35-36 ect ect. It's known as a workhorse and reliable for good reasons. You make out they are unreliable and need more maintenance...Kida the opposite to what most will say about that movement range. issues and dirty movements is a thing on the fakes and also frankenstein seikos that now flood the market. But yeah they are overpriced but then who pays full retail for a seiko? Most can be had for 50-60% off most of the time.
Preach! Teddy and Watchfinder make bomb videos which are essentially presentations, commercials to sell you watches in their own stores. I personally don't see what all the hype is around Seiko in general. When I see the gap between the case and bracelet it's an instant turn off.
Yessir! They overhype the watches to sell them for no reason, I do intend on making a website in the future but I wanna either do my own watches or if I do end up selling watches to make enough money to start my own watches I’m gonna be completely transparent and say all the negatives and positives of a watch, I disagree with lying about quality. For your viewers you should want them to get the best for their money, and as it currently stands microbrand a are just superior to seiko
Simple: just don’t buy them at full retail price. It’s not a $450 watch but they go for a lot less on the grey market, using an AD discount, or simply pre-owned.
Meh I think if someone's willing to buy it then it's worth it. $500 is certainly not overpriced, even if not the best "bang for buck". Your argumentation could be applied to any watch honestly, as everything above a certain price point isn't worth just the material alone. What sets me off about the most Presage watches is that they're super oddly sized for a dress watch. They're a little too large in diameter but they're absolutely too damn thick for a dresser. With that bright dial and that huge size it looks like a $5k watch to unknowing people and when you get talking about it it's a disappointment for most honestly. But they still look rather nice and get people talking. And honestly, paying maybe $150 or $200 too much for a watch is nothing compared to pay 30% over MSRP for a swiss luxury watch. You can always get those cheap used unworn alternatively. They'll be discontinued soon anyways like every other watch and the successor will be another $200 more and we'll all be crying our eyes out where the simple cheap models went.
Oh dear the cheap presage has sold out so screw presage im gona go for the Mont Blanc 7019 ive seen for £340 used, it has the look im after and well engineered too, what is your opinion of this brand
You can get Citizen NB1050 with 9000 series decorated miyota, sapphire and VERY nice finishing. No qc issues at all and very classy watch. FOR 450 USD! Citizen and Orient are where Seiko used to be and beyond.
People buy Seiko for the brand, and frankly I couldn't give a shit about the crystal - never a big deal for me, I don't bash my wrists against walls or doors!! The water resistance is also NOT an issue for me - if I want a dive watch I'll buy a frigging dive watch!! The big weakness is the movement - the 4 series movement is cheap junk that is often used by Chinese Aliexpress brands. Even the higher range 6 series movement, which is used in the expensive Presage watches, isn't much better either. If you want a quality Seiko you need to go for the 8 series movements, which are only available in the most expensive Seiko watches. So yes, it IS a scam, but not necessarily for the reasons you outlined.
I picked up a few of the old seiko 5's a few years ago for £65-80 each. Put on a few different straps, yeah good times. Then they started the pressage and the 5 Sports and whacked up their prices. :/
Back when those old 60-80 seiko 5 were around they were so much better value, now even those aren’t good value because their prices have doubled or even tripled since they’ve been discontinued :/
Yesterday i was looking at spb293j1 with porcelain dial. And I was disappointed. The dial not so great as it was on photo, but still it's beautiful. The bracelet - just nothing special. But here is the things i completely don't understand: - exhibition caseback. Why for a God 's sake they want to show me basic mechanism without any noticable finishing? It just looks cheap. What s wrong with metal cover or engraving? -for a dress watch they are too big. Why not use 6L35 making the watch smaller and thinner? But other than dress watch i don't see them. They was at 895 EUR. Even consider this, i decided to find something else.
I agree to this sentiment, for sure open display caseback on a 4R movement is silly, the dials aren’t as good in person and the bracelets/straps are horrid, but they still have an aura too them, they’d be great if they were half the price!
I loooove my Le Locle. Nothing negative - for me - to say about it. I am thinking about at Presage because I love the colours of one.. but the girl in this video makes some great points. I do have 3 Seiko... but only use one... and that is solor with gps.
I agree My friend have a presage and as a photography enthusiasts we inspect it in macro mode and we found some of things that you are talking, rough finishing and some debris. Even my old seiko sus military has better finishing quality than his presage. The quality issue is just like some SKX series which is famous for the dial not aligned with chapter ring. as a big name seiko can't do that to a big money products.
The price of the Seiko presage compared to the Seiko 5, using the same movement, kept me from buying a presage. I have a couple watches with the 4r movement, that were half the price of the presage. But yeah, I can't see spending $400+ for the 4r movement. I'm not big into automatic movements anyway. I like light powered quartz.
i'm new to watches and glad i watched this video, thanks! i'm in love with the look of the presage, but can't get over the fact it's mineral and not sapphire; i could probably deal with the other stuff if it just didn't have a crappy crystal
Instantly became a subscriber Totally agree with you that’s all the reasons I still haven’t got any Presage Another scam I feel like the same is King Seiko
I agree. Seiko used to offer similar quality to Swiss watches for half the price, today Seiko is as expensive or more expensive than Tissot, Hamilton, Certina, Roamer etc. and is of much lower quality. They don't respect customers so they will lose them and I say this as a former, long time fan and defender of Seiko.
Thanks for the input,, I was gonna buy my first Presage Cocktail Watch, but after seeing them at the store, I took a pause n re-think it over, bcoz as you said,, It's not up to the hype, I found them kinda regular, not too flashy.. Myb depends on the suits the shirts we'd wear when I put them on.. Maybe. Nevertheles, I didn't buy them.. Now after saw ur video, I get it and agreed, kinda. They really are beautiful but hmm not for me.. Thanks 🙂🙏🙏
I think you can say the same about the Alpinist, at least aesthetically. The big ugly magnifier over the date, and the weird, off-putting part leather strap, part metal clasp band.
In terms of looking not many, the dials do look good, but the material and quality of them isn’t good And the dial is the only thing good for the price range, finishing, movements, bracelet are all pretty terrible and quality control is abhorrent so I can’t let the dial being the only good thing slide!
Wow, lit them up *mic drop*. I have to say for $300-400, yeah you can get better specs, but the design is unique and very attractive. There is value there. I have a micro brand that is $300 and blows these specs out of the water, but doesnt look as cool tbh.
They do shave really good designs, the execution and specs are just the bad part, which is disappointing because seiko have so many great resources they could make them so much better but they try to minimise cost and maximise profit
though what mentions are true, most 4R performs better than what it writes on paper. Usually less than 10sec +/- . Hardlex could scratch, but it won't easily get as what it said.
Yes, this is an old video and some of my opinions have changed, objectively spec wise 300 is a good and fair price for it, plus the design being original, the history and heritage of the brand etc! If you like the look of it it’s a cracking watch for that price!
@WatchConnoisseurClubyou say you can get a better micro brand watch for half as much as its original price, which would still be $75 cheaper than $300 but you seem to have done a 180. Not sure now whether I valued your original thoughts or even your new ones.
I paid $215 Canadian second hand for my 60s style. It's a nice addition to my mid range/high end collection. For that price with box and paper work. I really can't complain. I also don't have microscopic vision. Though you do make a solid points. Great honest video. I enjoyed it
I have multiple hardlex watches, and I was never able to scratch the glass on them. I know, in that price range you should get sapphire, but hardlex has it’s advantages too. First, it is more flexible, thus harder to break, second, it is extremely cheap to replace if scratched or crack. Btw, I have a Seiko 5 with a 4R36 movement, with the promised accuracy of plus minus 45 seconds a day. Well, after measuring the watch’s accuracy day by day, I was in the + 3-5 seconds range per day. I don’t know if I’m just got lucky, or these movements can run well if you maintain them. Just don’t expect a superlative chronometer.
Who really needs 100m water resistance on a dress watch. I have an Omega Seamaster Planet Ocean that’s been about as deep as my bath tub. Realistically, the wettest a dress watch is likely to get is if you get caught out in the rain!
@@WatchConnoisseurClub I’m not advocating for this watch, just giving the reason why they can do this. It’s silly to compare seiko to microbrands… it’s basic supply and demand…. Your complaining like it’s highway robbery… at the end of the day $500 is cheap for a watch especially a well known brand people will pay for this…
@@chongymeister14 true however in terms of being mass produced the microbrand watches actually have a smaller supply as well as a smaller demand and yet they’re still far cheaper with higher attention to detail and specifications
well yes microbrands need to do this because they haven't established their brand in the industry yet and no one knows who they are... my point is paying for the name is worth more than the actual cost it takes to create the watch... do you really think rolex's should be worth $10k+.... their history and years of marketing themselves as a luxury brand has allowed them to do this and it has made them a household name. for example dr martens make low quality boots but they can still price their shoes higher than most brands even those brands who make better quality boots simply because of the brand... People will pay for the silly yellow stitching alone.... These brands have already stamped themselves in modern society... quality means nothing in relation to demand... @@WatchConnoisseurClub
My white dialed Seiko Presage lost 11 ~ 12 seconds a day. This was in the warranty range but I still found it frustrating. This wasn’t a ‘cocktail’ though.
_Mmmmm . . ._ at that price point the Presage is well-constructed with excellent materials and it looks great but they use a 6R35 movement which is a fine movement but far from the best even within this price range. This was about ¥120,000 and it was still a hella serviceable dress watch. Now that I read about it the loss of 10 seconds isn’t that bad considering its warranty states that it may lose or gain up to 25 seconds a day . . . 🤷♂️
I just watched a video from a watchmaker I follow repairing one of these that had suffered a whack against a brick wall and it was very disappointing. From the factory, scratches on the movement and drenched in oil.
No issues with mine…. Clearly you just hate seiko. Why I dont trust the brits
Pfft read through the comments, 8/10 people agree with me and have faulty seikos
@@WatchConnoisseurClubyoure right "girl"
yes exactly
@WatchConnoisseurClubyou get wrecked in the comments. At least you won the clickbait game.
Buying my Presage was purely a 100% emotional decision. You are right: It IS overpriced and you COULD get a far better watch for the price. Yes, microbrands DO offer superior quality for lower prices. But the thing is - at the end of the day, it's still a Seiko. Simple as that. Talk about paying $1,200 on an Apple iPhone, when $400 will get you better features and a superior camera in the Android world. If we follow the argument of "this watch is overpriced for what you get", almost every major swiss luxury watch brand will fall into that category. Hell, why even bother buying a mechanical watch, when even your microwave could tell the time more accurately?? It's not always about rationality and value for money - especially not in the watch world!!
100% agree. Anyone that complains about accuracy on mechanical watch just doesn't get it. And you're right, regardless of the technical prowess of a pressage, it's still a Seiko and just as respected as any swiss watch brand. I've gotten compliments on my green dial cocktail time from dudes wearing Royal Oaks, Daytonas, and JLC's... For the money, you just can't beat it.
It depends on who you ask but for me a brand isn’t why you get a watch, as I said getting a watch is up to you and the main thing is that it’s a watch you like and if you like the presage that’s great for you!
It’s just annoying that brands like that seiko that have so much money and expertise go out of their way to cheap out on their watches when micro brands with not even 1% of the resources are producing better watches for less money
Non! He doesn't even understand that Hardlex isn't ordinary tempered glass, it's what Gorilla Glass is, a special critical glass developed for optics and it's even nearly as reflective as sapphire, and you can tell the difference because it's chemically different. He's just a no nothing ditz!
@@WatchConnoisseurClubMineral crystal is more shatter resistance Citizen and Seiko using it on their entry level sports watches it is acceptable to me
I Guess many Brands Will squeeze a big Margins from one of their watch (low cost prod, high price), may be Presage is one of them, and when some one realize it, Seiko should make an improvement, Cause it is a Seiko
Following your logic, the only sane buying decision you can make in purchasing a watch is to buy a $10 Casio.
To be honest this chick has no idea what she's talking about. The Presage line are some of the most beautiful and timeless designs made by anybody.
"So baaad", "Exponentialy EXPONENTIALY betterrrrr".
No nuance, no substance. They sound like my mother in law who is a total Karen.
I do agree with the lack of a sapphire crystal. I think it's extremely lame that Seiko puts a mineral crystal on these, but I don't think any of your other arguments are justified.
The movement is fine and accuracy on an automatic watch is highly overrated and everyone knows Seiko movements are far more accurate than the official stats claim. If accuracy is that important to you, buy a quartz watch.
50m water resistance? How is that a problem on a dress watch? Hell, even the Hamilton Khaki Field is only 50m, and it's supposed to get wet! You'll be able to wash your hands and get caught in a rain storm without any issues. Not a valid argument for a dress watch.
The strap: I own the green dial cocktail time with the leather deployment strap and I honestly don't know why everyone hates on it so much. I find it to be incredibly comfortable, durable and it looks great too... I just don't understand. Ok, maybe it's not Horween Shell Cordovan, but it's honestly a great strap and doesn't get the love it deserves. Can't speak to the bracelet as mine only came with the leather strap, but I do think you might have a valid argument there.
The finishing: You claim the finishing is terrible, but I can't see a single defect or fleck of dust on mine. It looks flawless. Now I'm also not looking at it under a professional macro lens or jewelers loop... But neither is anyone else, so why would I care? It's a $300 Seiko, no one is putting that thing under a microscope .
All I can say is that the dial on the cocktail time is simply beautiful. When the light hits the dial and indices... My god it's one of the best looking watches out there, especially the green dial with the gold seconds hand on that leather strap... MmmMm. Makes me smile every time I glance at it.
I will admit that I almost didn't pull the trigger on my cocktail time because of the mineral crystal, but I'm glad I did and it's my favorite watch. That being said, I got mine on sale for $300, so well below full retail. I may end up putting a sapphire crystal on it, you can get one for $99 which would put it back up close to the full retail price, but we'll see.
All I can say is that love my cocktail time and I think the beauty of the dial more than makes up for the lack of a sapphire crystal. Show me a watch with a better looking dial for less than $1,000.
These are all valid and interesting point my friend!
Thing is for me I’ve seen a handful in pertain and they’ve run an average of around 20 or so seconds a day with a few at 6 a day and a few at 50 a day, thing is the worst part about cheaper seikos these days is the abhorrent quality control, you just got lucky you got a good one!
Also the finishing is only just passable, very basic and industry standard but when you look up close much more irregularities and issues than other watches in the same price range
Also the dials can look nice and they are up there for the money, but the dials being the only part that are good value just isn’t enough in my opinion
End of the day most important thing is to get a watch you live, and not listen to anyone telling you it’s bad me included
(Also second hand or below retail the presage isn’t all too bad)
@@WatchConnoisseurClub With accuracy that bad, you have been extremely unfortunate and very rare! and I have known seiko owners for all my life so have handle on expections, I would call any watch that inaccurate a faulty unit and sent it back to the Company to be put right or replacement. The other thing to consider is, are these watches exposed to strong magnets through work or music studios etc... if so the simple answer is do buy a cheap de magnetisor, or get a Casio for those occasions.
You’re right it’s not great.
…It’s freaking spectacular.
Lolll, to be fair if you can get it grey market for more like $200 it’s an awesome watch, but at full retail price? It’s pretty bad
@@WatchConnoisseurClubbe honest, affordable swiss watches designs are subpar compare to seiko. mido, rado, glycine, tissot, you name it
and microbrand only good on specs on paper, trust me, i've been there,
i used to think my san martin watch is great, great specs, saphhire, ceramic bezel, great finishing. but you know what? after 5 years the indices fall apart, the paint on the hands are pelled off.
the other hand, my 7 years old seiko 5 still like new, dial, hands, case, are still crisp, only minor scratch on hardlex crystal, that u can change for sapphire for $30, but i can't change the dial and hands in san martin.
90 % microbrand are made on china, same factory with chinese brand.
@@WatchConnoisseurClub honestly I have never seen one at the full retail price unless you’re looking at Seo’s website
None of the brands you mention come close to how good the Presage dials are. I respectfully disagree. Some of the cocktail times are just stunning for the price and most of all, some of the special edition dials are Grand Seiko level quality for Seiko money, such as the Tokyo Dawn, or the Castle in the Sky releases.
A dude with earrings and a ponytail. Giving advice about anything is questionable.
🤣
😂😂😂😂😂
And she doesn't speak English.
😂
You have some valid points, but complaining that a dress watch only support 50m water resistance is just ridiculous, who cares if it's 50m or 100m it's completely irrelevant. I don't own this watch yet, but will probably buy one soon and for me the bottom line simply is that this is by far the best looking watch in the kind of sub $500 price range, and even better looking than a lot much more expensive watches. The other watches you mention and show in this video just doesn't come even close to the looks of the Presage and at the end of the day for 99% of consumers the main purpose of a dress watch is that it looks great, and if you can find a dress watch for around $500 that looks anywhere near as good as the Presage I would love to hear which one that is, because I haven't been able to fine one.
♻ still searching for 4R57, more precisely parts for this movement, the 31 star for the day hand is very fragile, and i already have 2 movements bought with this part broken : where to find it ? ♻
It's easy to promote yourself on critics's favorite, but now i want you to give me 5 another watch with same beatiful dial.
I have 5 SEIKO presage watches, and they are all very beautiful. One has an ARITA PORCELAIN DIAL ( and all hand-made ) exquisite workmanship. I don't think the boy who made this video had much real knowledge or expertise in the area of fine SEIKO watches.
Thx for the honest review. I still like the design but it is nice to hear a bit more critical perspective
If you get it second hand for more like $200 then it’s good value, but at full retail price? Not worth the money whatsoever
For 100x times the price is a Daytona a 100x better watch though?
Yes
that tells me everything i need to know about this channel then@@WatchConnoisseurClub
Yes
You arguments makes 100 percent sense. People love being fan girls and not demanding better from brands that costs so much
What about SEIPB417J sharped edge series?
Finishing is much better but full RRP they’re still way overpriced, if you can get one second hand for 30%+ off then it’s a good deal so go for it!
Ah, at least someone is echoing the same views. Seiko’s presage, sports, king seiko, and these abrupt anniversary editions or reinterpretations are total rip offs today. As a cerebral buyer who doesn’t get blown over by a brands history, I’d say that seiko is no longer a common man’s watch brand that it used to be. And a watch’s heart is its movement. There’s no point in shelling out extra bucks for a not-so-good budget watch with a movement that it’s not up to the mark. I’d rather pay far less for orient bambino and get a better dress watch with a better movement. I think, apart from seiko’s astron, Seiko’s other product lines are not giving customers what they loved about seiko for at least a century.
Please review JDM Citizen watches. They also have good dials but have better movements than the Seiko Presage's 4R35 and a sapphire crystal.
This guy just seems like a Seiko hater
Yes, I overpaid for my Presage Style 60’s for the entry level specs .. but the dial is absolutely stunning. I haven’t worn my more expensive Swiss watches in months. I occasionally tend to them to give them a wind, but I am “still” in the longest honeymoon phase of all time for what was suppose to serve as a reliable work watch is now my daily driver for the foreseeable future. You are right that QC with Seiko is hit or miss..I think I’m lucky. I enjoyed your video and I will subscribe :)
Appreciate it! This was just a one time moan generally I like watches xD
I'm really pleased to hear you like your 60s style Pressage. They really are beautiful watches. I'm considering the road trip. I just fancy a GMT. It's been on my radar for a while now.
Thats what Seiko are for :). Enjoy.
then i dont know why my pressage doubled in value , problably because its limited ) i dont know why someone would buy a non limited unit
Limited editions of big brand names will always go up in value :P
I have a Seiko presage and its not mineral.
It's definitely sapphire. It Doesn't scratch.
Has no dust inside it. (I magnified it)
Perhaps i pay extra just for the Seiko name.
But i'm satisfied.
I agree that they could have made it waterproof and not just water resistant.
But mine has been under water by accident before and it turned out to be fine.
And every end of the week i have to adjust it like "1 minute" or something. But any automatic mechanical watch isnt as precise as a quartz watch. And that also counts for Rolex.
Seiko was actually the inventor of quartz.
And makes great reliable mechanical movements.
Some presage have handled some sapphire. Presage has a wide price range
I don't see this as being reasonable criticism, with the exception of the lack of a sapphire crystal. On that point, I agree.
First, it's important to state the obvious, which is that mechanical analogue watches are little more than jewelry and that if you actually wanted an effective time measurement device, you would run a digital Casio with a stopwatch, date and alarm. The reason manufacturers persist with mechanical watches is to tap into buyer nostalgia and to justify high prices with the excuse of "the craftsmanship and horology". The movement isn't interesting to anyone except an enthusiast and you really won't notice the time difference until a week or more has passed, assuming you even bothered putting it on a winder. What you want in a watch is a nice face and nice case design.
As a functioning piece of jewelry, the Presage lineup delivers where it matters. The faces look great, the case and finishing on every Presage I've seen in a shop (as well as one I bought for a relative) looked fine, and I have better than 20/20 vision. Under a microscope they might look bad, I've never done that myself, but who cares. Some people struggle to read street signs when driving, let alone notice a smudge on a polished indices.
You said the leather band is bad, but what you failed to mention is that as an overall package, the leather deployment strap is a perfectly fine package. It's comfortable, should last a couple of years before cracking and if you REALLY hate the budget genuine leather, you can always get a custom full grain strap made by a leathersmith for a couple hundred, install the Seiko deployment clasp and swap it onto any other watches using a 20mm lug as desired.
Crystal that is scratch easily, bezel misalignment and poor accuracy are the common problems
Yup
Do you think the Orient Star has the same issues ?
No the orient star is better value, sapphire crystal and orient as a brand has much better quality control then seiko, the orient star is a great pick!
I was choosing between the Presage and a Cream Bambino. On my wifes advice, i went for the Bambino, as it was more versatile. Im very happy with my decision, plus it was about a quarter of the price! Its become my default dress watch.
Much less price for a watch just as good, why orient is currently the better brand?
@@WatchConnoisseurClub yeah its one of the best decisions i made in this hobby. It cost very little and im not afraid it it gets scratched.
Can't go past the Bambino! But couldn't go past the Presage either haha! :)
Thank you so much for this video. I have been saving money to buy a nice watch and I had my eyes over the Presage for a while, and thank to you I have save my money.
Thank you , How do you feel about the Seiko Prospex Alpinist - SBdCO91 ? I'm more of a Casio type dude
but I'm getting older slowing down & trying to enjoy life before the wicked arrive .
This video needed to be made. Always good and bad in everything. Being a smart consumer is important.
Agreed.
Please suggest me an alternative (open heart ) for same price , am about buying and stopped cuz of your video
3 months and still waiting for an alternative...
Orient FAG00001S0 its around 370€ brand new, you could get a used one for less...
@@roelfo Orient FAG00001S0 its around 370€ brand new, you could get a used one for less...
Thank you for the video, you just convinced me to order one 🎉. Sometimes you just buy what you like without thinking..😅
Seiko designs beautiful watches and then ruins them by cutting corners with materials, manufacturing them with poor quality control, and then charging too much for them. They weren't always this way, but that is their new reality.
I agree, that’s why vintage seiko is much better
I bought a new one, but only paid $325. With leather strap. Don’t need to paid full price.
You are right about the movement. But the crystal is fine. I have some vintage Seiko watches with plexiglass crystals. No scratches. But show me a better dial! You can’t. A simply gorgeous dress watch.
Fair enough! Getting second hand or on sale they’re good value I know where I could pick them up more like $200 range (for a cocktail in good condition) but at full retail price they’re just pretty bad :p
Pfffff. I got a whole collection of Seiko and never found or experienced all the crap you're saying. 4R35 a 35 $ movement ? High maintenance ? Low accuracy ? You just don't know nothing about Seiko or maybe you sell the crap you mentioned as alternatives.
No I don’t sell anything this channel doesn’t make a penny for me, also the majority of seiko owners in the comment section agree with me, the 4R35 is reliable yes, but has abhorrent finishing, is cheaply mass manufactured and has barely passable accuracy
When a $500 seiko has a 4R35 when microbrands have an nh35 (unbranded 4R35) in their sub $100 watches you know they’re overpriced
Also search for NH35 online you can get them new for as little as $15
Also maybe you’re lucky but seiko are known for their abhorrent quality control and overpriced watches, good watches yes, but overpriced
And before you say I don’t know enough I’ve owned many seiko probably 5 times more than you and yet I’ve had these issues countless times, also read the comment section where 80% of people agree and say they’ve had the same issues
@@WatchConnoisseurClub where can I get NH35 for 15 ? I will buy them. If its a real NH35 of course.
I can allow every loopholes for that brand and dial. But the movement and hardlex crystal is a dealbreaker.
my 2 years old presage slashes minus 50 - 60 sec a week not a day, i think you are wrong. yeah you are right about glass. it should be sapphire.
Fair enough, thing is the quality control is horrific though you just got lucky and probably the 1 in 100 presage that’s relatively accurate
@@WatchConnoisseurClub i calculated again and it slashes 7 - 8 sec a day and its normal. No scratches on glass or dial in 2 years. I don't understand why you criticize this watch so much. My watch does not match what you said. My friends who use this series are also very satisfied.
@@tonyslark4366this is a crap value watch , you are just obsessed with it because you paid so much and want it to be perfect
What are you buying it for? If you're looking for a utilitarian watch, that ticks all the boxes for $400, buy a microbrand, If you want a sexy as hell watch to wear during cocktail time, buy the seiko.
Sir , is SEIKO SPB249 DEEP LAKE A BETTER BUY THANKS❤😊
Seiko Prospex are definitely better but they’re still a bit overpriced! Either way go for the watch you love that’s the main thing
I agree with some things you say. It is overpriced like most of seikos these days. They do have qc issues but thats why i go and pick the one i want from an ad. Hardlex/mineral should be used for divers or even field watches.
I dont agree with what you said about the movement. The 4r35 or nh35 is used by incredible amount of microbrands and as far for the accuracy, they always more accurate than the specifications. And you dont service it every couple of years! You service a seiko when it stops or keeps a really bad time and in that case you swap the movement in less the amount of a service. Could be years and years.
You pay for the brand name! And seiko dials are some of the best ones out there! For the price range.
I dont know where this hate for seiko coming from, presage owners all love their watches. Maybe its bc they are above 40 and their eyesight isn't good no more.. 🤷♂️
Haha! Like I said the presage isn’t terrible for the price there’s much worse in the price range, but it’s just not why all these people hype it up to be, the movement is bad for the price (nh35 should be in more like $150-$200 watches not the $450 presage line) and the crystal is cheaper out on, the strap is alright but the bracelets are abhorrent and for the $450 microbrands are straight up better with no question
I don’t agree with buying a watch for the brand but fair enough, and the dials are pretty nice for the money but they’re not the best in the market like some people say
@@WatchConnoisseurClub i do agree that some reviewers hype the watch to increase the sales, Someone like teddy. When i started my collection i used to be subscribed to his channel. But i hate to see youtubers loading videos for paud promotion on every single video! Like, are you kidding me? Who do you think youre fooling?
I hope you wont.. Ill be watching you..
Nah you're right. Those are the exact reasons Ive been hesitant to pull the trigger on the Pressage. The braclet and lack of Sapphire make me stay away.
Hi Rudi... Found your video while researching for Seiko SRPG25j1. Well now I'm not so sure, all the microbrands you mentioned is not available in Indonesia and the orient bambino only offered with mineral crystal dome. Do you have any other recommended automatic watch with sapphire under 500 USD?
This shows that depression is no joke..wishing you well dude.
I used to be a Seiko’s fanboy, but not for the last few years… I buy a lot of watches the only psychos I’ve purchased in the last few years I’ve been re-purchases of older models or picking up discontinued models that I always wanted. I’ve moved to micro brands and other big brands like Hamilton/Tissot/Citizen/Casio, etc..
I own a presage and i bought it because I liked the looks first of all. It really is gorgeous. I have no issues with scratches on the glass or dust inside. Not disappointed except for the leather strap, it really does not seem worthy, but that’s easily changed without any tools and it was the first thing I did. Accuracy is -3 seconds per day which is very acceptable for me. Only thing I agree upon is that it could be cheaper, but so does my car, my restaurant etc.
"Do this, don't do that..." I am fed up with those so called "expert".
Why your point of view would be better than the purchaser's ?
Are you watchmaker ? Did you spend 20 years in selling or repairing watches ?
If not, please, let us do what we want with our needs, our taste, our experience.
Never once did I say don’t buy it and if you read comments you’ll see my firm opinion that buying what you want is more important, the reason I made this video is because large watch TH-camrs are saying how amazing and perfect the presage is so they can sell them on their websites, however 90% of people I know and also have got comments on we’re disappointed with the presage because of poor quality control, basic cheap movement, average finishing and a terrible strap/bracelet for the price point
@@WatchConnoisseurClub Title of your video : "Do NOT buy the Seiko Presage!!". Your answer : "Never once did I say don’t buy it"... Ok guy.
Seiko : Turnover = $1,3 Billions. Not so bad for a so poor watchmaker.
@@WatchConnoisseurClubI agree with you all the TH-camrs are full off crap , this is overpriced garbage, you are buying the dial here everything else is sub par quality.. Softlex , 4r35 , shouldn’t have a date .. it came with a 6r35 in 2010
Its all about those dials. And the cocktail theming is quite unique. Supply & demand sets the price.
You still get much more than for any swiss watch brand for the money i say as swiss person
Sarb lineup was one of the best entry level watches. Seiko has gone greedy. They forgot why people were in love with them.
Finally someone speaks. Thank you 👍🏻
I have the Seiko Presage in green. As much as I hate to admit it, youre right regarding the finishing (one of my hands has a nick in it) and jiggly-ness of the bracelet. Definirely coild be better. Sapphire would have been nice. 50m water resistance is more than enough though.
Appreciate you calling it is, earned a subscriber.
if i can buy one for 260$ its good ?
Im looking for my first automatic, should i buy it ?
Yes
at 360 euros is is worth in your opinion or still expensive?
Overpriced? yes. As bad as you say? I am wondering are you sure all the ones you have seen are real seikos? Because the market is flooded with fakes that do pass as the real thing yet then have all the issues you state. Checking the ones i have and I can't see the same issues you talk about. And yes the movement is a bit basic but most perform much better than the basic specs say. Don't forget the specs are much wider than needed because it allows seiko to not repair or regulate every movement that is not as good as most of them are because doing that chews up the profit margin in one go. I have taken a few apart and this issue with debris or other contamination is just not a thing. And this movement is the same one most micro brands use but just with a diff part number eg NH35-36 ect ect. It's known as a workhorse and reliable for good reasons. You make out they are unreliable and need more maintenance...Kida the opposite to what most will say about that movement range. issues and dirty movements is a thing on the fakes and also frankenstein seikos that now flood the market. But yeah they are overpriced but then who pays full retail for a seiko? Most can be had for 50-60% off most of the time.
Are you stupid ?
Preach! Teddy and Watchfinder make bomb videos which are essentially presentations, commercials to sell you watches in their own stores. I personally don't see what all the hype is around Seiko in general. When I see the gap between the case and bracelet it's an instant turn off.
Yessir! They overhype the watches to sell them for no reason, I do intend on making a website in the future but I wanna either do my own watches or if I do end up selling watches to make enough money to start my own watches I’m gonna be completely transparent and say all the negatives and positives of a watch, I disagree with lying about quality.
For your viewers you should want them to get the best for their money, and as it currently stands microbrand a are just superior to seiko
Simple: just don’t buy them at full retail price. It’s not a $450 watch but they go for a lot less on the grey market, using an AD discount, or simply pre-owned.
Fair point! If you can pick one up for around $200 then I’d say they’re good value
Meh I think if someone's willing to buy it then it's worth it. $500 is certainly not overpriced, even if not the best "bang for buck". Your argumentation could be applied to any watch honestly, as everything above a certain price point isn't worth just the material alone.
What sets me off about the most Presage watches is that they're super oddly sized for a dress watch. They're a little too large in diameter but they're absolutely too damn thick for a dresser. With that bright dial and that huge size it looks like a $5k watch to unknowing people and when you get talking about it it's a disappointment for most honestly. But they still look rather nice and get people talking. And honestly, paying maybe $150 or $200 too much for a watch is nothing compared to pay 30% over MSRP for a swiss luxury watch. You can always get those cheap used unworn alternatively. They'll be discontinued soon anyways like every other watch and the successor will be another $200 more and we'll all be crying our eyes out where the simple cheap models went.
Oh dear the cheap presage has sold out so screw presage im gona go for the Mont Blanc 7019 ive seen for £340 used, it has the look im after and well engineered too, what is your opinion of this brand
Not too familiar with the brand but after some quick research into it’s specification it seems alright yeah, looks good too
You can get Citizen NB1050 with 9000 series decorated miyota, sapphire and VERY nice finishing. No qc issues at all and very classy watch. FOR 450 USD!
Citizen and Orient are where Seiko used to be and beyond.
I completely agree they’re so much better these days!
I agree
450$ is too much..
Why not buy it for free?
Because of this video i just bought a new 1
People buy Seiko for the brand, and frankly I couldn't give a shit about the crystal - never a big deal for me, I don't bash my wrists against walls or doors!! The water resistance is also NOT an issue for me - if I want a dive watch I'll buy a frigging dive watch!! The big weakness is the movement - the 4 series movement is cheap junk that is often used by Chinese Aliexpress brands. Even the higher range 6 series movement, which is used in the expensive Presage watches, isn't much better either. If you want a quality Seiko you need to go for the 8 series movements, which are only available in the most expensive Seiko watches. So yes, it IS a scam, but not necessarily for the reasons you outlined.
250-260$/€ (new) overpriced for the cocktail? dont think so
Wanted the presage but went with the Green Orient maestro with sapphire and 100 m of WR!
A much better watch in terms of value for money!
Nice video. Would you recommend the Tissot couturier over the presage?
Thank you for this review. Just bought! It s amazing!
That accuracy varoes alot. Some are almost costc certified. Almost, like the Tissot prx powermatic 80
Well you can regulate it yourself if you know what it’s doing and vastly increase the accuracy
I love my presage.a great dress watch.never had a problem.sooo beautiful.i would recommend
Presage line has a signed crown at least.. XD Seiko's diver line never give us a singed crown so they look so cheap to me.. haha
Seiko are just so overhyped people think it’s the be all end all but they really aren’t all that special xD
I agree 👍
I picked up a few of the old seiko 5's a few years ago for £65-80 each. Put on a few different straps, yeah good times.
Then they started the pressage and the 5 Sports and whacked up their prices. :/
they went uptown with their maket-perception. "Marketpace." Hate it--it's bs!!
Back when those old 60-80 seiko 5 were around they were so much better value, now even those aren’t good value because their prices have doubled or even tripled since they’ve been discontinued :/
@@WatchConnoisseurClub ikr prime example SKX007 ! It was under £200 new , now it’s £500 plus with a 7s26😂😂
Hard to take you serious looking like that.
100% agree. Seiko is just not worth it.
Vintage is, but current seiko? Nah
GRAND SEIKO IS BETTER !
@@67tagada well of course they’re 10 times the price, but they are pretty good value for money
Finally someone is saying it.
Seiko Presage isn’t bad right, but for this price you can get better and your arguments explain this very well.
Yup! I dislike how people on TH-cam overhype them and say they’re so amazing just to sell them on their own websites
Yesterday i was looking at spb293j1 with porcelain dial. And I was disappointed. The dial not so great as it was on photo, but still it's beautiful. The bracelet - just nothing special. But here is the things i completely don't understand:
- exhibition caseback. Why for a God 's sake they want to show me basic mechanism without any noticable finishing? It just looks cheap. What s wrong with metal cover or engraving?
-for a dress watch they are too big. Why not use 6L35 making the watch smaller and thinner? But other than dress watch i don't see them.
They was at 895 EUR. Even consider this, i decided to find something else.
I agree to this sentiment, for sure open display caseback on a 4R movement is silly, the dials aren’t as good in person and the bracelets/straps are horrid, but they still have an aura too them, they’d be great if they were half the price!
What is your opinion about the presage vs tissot Le locle?
I loooove my Le Locle. Nothing negative - for me - to say about it.
I am thinking about at Presage because I love the colours of one.. but the girl in this video makes some great points.
I do have 3 Seiko... but only use one... and that is solor with gps.
@@LazyStory With her Blouse unbuttoned down to her cleavage trying to distract us from the nonsense she is spouting.
I agree
My friend have a presage and as a photography enthusiasts we inspect it in macro mode and we found some of things that you are talking, rough finishing and some debris.
Even my old seiko sus military has better finishing quality than his presage.
The quality issue is just like some SKX series which is famous for the dial not aligned with chapter ring.
as a big name seiko can't do that to a big money products.
I agree, especially with the resources they have
A boy pontificating from his parents' house🤣🤣🤣
Bedtime sonny.
The price of the Seiko presage compared to the Seiko 5, using the same movement, kept me from buying a presage. I have a couple watches with the 4r movement, that were half the price of the presage. But yeah, I can't see spending $400+ for the 4r movement. I'm not big into automatic movements anyway. I like light powered quartz.
Yup just doesn’t make sense
Good choice this is overpriced garbage
i'm new to watches and glad i watched this video, thanks! i'm in love with the look of the presage, but can't get over the fact it's mineral and not sapphire; i could probably deal with the other stuff if it just didn't have a crappy crystal
Nice dials but the specs aren’t all that, check out Jody’s watches from his brand EREBUS, incredible dials and specifications!
Instantly became a subscriber
Totally agree with you that’s all the reasons I still haven’t got any Presage
Another scam I feel like the same is King Seiko
Yup it’s pretty crazy
We buy the presage for the dial
I was looking at buying a Presage for the dial….but looking at it through a scratched crystal? Being all precious with it? No Ta!
I agree. Seiko used to offer similar quality to Swiss watches for half the price, today Seiko is as expensive or more expensive than Tissot, Hamilton, Certina, Roamer etc. and is of much lower quality.
They don't respect customers so they will lose them and I say this as a former, long time fan and defender of Seiko.
Completely agree with you, vintage seiko are amazing but newer models are straight up bad
I was a Seiko supporter for many years, now I gravitate to Citizen but I like my tool/Diver watches now.
Thanks for the input,, I was gonna buy my first Presage Cocktail Watch, but after seeing them at the store, I took a pause n re-think it over, bcoz as you said,, It's not up to the hype, I found them kinda regular, not too flashy.. Myb depends on the suits the shirts we'd wear when I put them on.. Maybe. Nevertheles, I didn't buy them.. Now after saw ur video, I get it and agreed, kinda. They really are beautiful but hmm not for me.. Thanks 🙂🙏🙏
Yeah not quite the high end watch they say they are, rather get a vario empire for a circular dress watch on leather
I think you can say the same about the Alpinist, at least aesthetically. The big ugly magnifier over the date, and the weird, off-putting part leather strap, part metal clasp band.
Agreed!
There is only one reason, the crystal.
Who has a better dress watch dial than Presage in this price range?
In terms of looking not many, the dials do look good, but the material and quality of them isn’t good
And the dial is the only thing good for the price range, finishing, movements, bracelet are all pretty terrible and quality control is abhorrent so I can’t let the dial being the only good thing slide!
Tissot, Sea-Gull, Citizen, Casio Oceanus, Orient Star.
Wow, lit them up *mic drop*. I have to say for $300-400, yeah you can get better specs, but the design is unique and very attractive. There is value there. I have a micro brand that is $300 and blows these specs out of the water, but doesnt look as cool tbh.
They do shave really good designs, the execution and specs are just the bad part, which is disappointing because seiko have so many great resources they could make them so much better but they try to minimise cost and maximise profit
You dared to speak the truth sir. I appreciate you . Have subscribed. Well done , keeping sharing the truth plz
Ha! Will do, I dislike how many TH-camrs lie to make money
@@WatchConnoisseurClub , you are very right brother
though what mentions are true, most 4R performs better than what it writes on paper. Usually less than 10sec +/- . Hardlex could scratch, but it won't easily get as what it said.
What about baltic?
Would you say it's good for $300?
Yes, this is an old video and some of my opinions have changed, objectively spec wise 300 is a good and fair price for it, plus the design being original, the history and heritage of the brand etc!
If you like the look of it it’s a cracking watch for that price!
@WatchConnoisseurClubyou say you can get a better micro brand watch for half as much as its original price, which would still be $75 cheaper than $300 but you seem to have done a 180. Not sure now whether I valued your original thoughts or even your new ones.
I paid $215 Canadian second hand for my 60s style. It's a nice addition to my mid range/high end collection. For that price with box and paper work. I really can't complain. I also don't have microscopic vision.
Though you do make a solid points. Great honest video. I enjoyed it
Thanks! Also yeah for a price as low as $215 Canadian it’s pretty good value for money! Just for full retail I think it’s bad
I have multiple hardlex watches, and I was never able to scratch the glass on them.
I know, in that price range you should get sapphire, but hardlex has it’s advantages too. First, it is more flexible, thus harder to break, second, it is extremely cheap to replace if scratched or crack.
Btw, I have a Seiko 5 with a 4R36 movement, with the promised accuracy of plus minus 45 seconds a day. Well, after measuring the watch’s accuracy day by day, I was in the + 3-5 seconds range per day. I don’t know if I’m just got lucky, or these movements can run well if you maintain them. Just don’t expect a superlative chronometer.
Yeah the accuracy ranges quite a bit they aren’t very consistent, still a good watch just extremely overpriced for what it is that’s all!
Personally any watch that cost more than £200 it has to have sapphire crystal and a minimum of 100m water resistant
Fully agree
Who really needs 100m water resistance on a dress watch. I have an Omega Seamaster Planet Ocean that’s been about as deep as my bath tub. Realistically, the wettest a dress watch is likely to get is if you get caught out in the rain!
No such thing as hardlex? 😂 Its not a basic mineral crystal its seikos own blend. It's decent
seiko have history compared to micro brands you are paying for the name too... seiko have the right to do this....
If you’re buying a watch of low quality for a brand name, you do you, but it’s a terrible decision and bad outlook on watch collecting
@@WatchConnoisseurClub I’m not advocating for this watch, just giving the reason why they can do this. It’s silly to compare seiko to microbrands… it’s basic supply and demand…. Your complaining like it’s highway robbery… at the end of the day $500 is cheap for a watch especially a well known brand people will pay for this…
@@chongymeister14 true however in terms of being mass produced the microbrand watches actually have a smaller supply as well as a smaller demand and yet they’re still far cheaper with higher attention to detail and specifications
well yes microbrands need to do this because they haven't established their brand in the industry yet and no one knows who they are... my point is paying for the name is worth more than the actual cost it takes to create the watch... do you really think rolex's should be worth $10k+.... their history and years of marketing themselves as a luxury brand has allowed them to do this and it has made them a household name.
for example dr martens make low quality boots but they can still price their shoes higher than most brands even those brands who make better quality boots simply because of the brand... People will pay for the silly yellow stitching alone.... These brands have already stamped themselves in modern society... quality means nothing in relation to demand... @@WatchConnoisseurClub
You really like yourself hearing talking eh? What exactly makes yourself a watch expert?
My white dialed Seiko Presage lost 11 ~ 12 seconds a day. This was in the warranty range but I still found it frustrating. This wasn’t a ‘cocktail’ though.
Yeah it’s not great hah
_Mmmmm . . ._ at that price point the Presage is well-constructed with excellent materials and it looks great but they use a 6R35 movement which is a fine movement but far from the best even within this price range. This was about ¥120,000 and it was still a hella serviceable dress watch.
Now that I read about it the loss of 10 seconds isn’t that bad considering its warranty states that it may lose or gain up to 25 seconds a day . . . 🤷♂️
I just watched a video from a watchmaker I follow repairing one of these that had suffered a whack against a brick wall and it was very disappointing. From the factory, scratches on the movement and drenched in oil.
Correctomundo my friend! They are extremely overpriced overhyped and overrated
Wont find better dials for the money. Movement is fine as well solid AF