Do NOT buy the Seiko Presage!! (Here's why)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ส.ค. 2024
- In this video we go over why the seiko presage is a BLOODY SCAM
Being one of the most famous budget watches in terms of dress watches, its pretty hyped up.
However after handling quite a few i actually think theyre very overrated, overpriced and overhyped
seiko presage is a cam.
Seiko presage cocktail
Seiko
Automatic movement
Orient Bambino is superior
Microbrand watches are too
Affordable microbrand dress watches
Cartier tank, cartier santos, jaeger lecoultre reverso, and 99% of other dress watches make this look like a kids toy but even in the budget range its still a bit of bollucks
#swiss #watches #watch #watchmaking #tissot #tissotprx #interesting #luxury #patekphilippe #rolex #ap #audemarspiguet #tiffany #wristwatch #money #lifestyle #prx #smallyoutuber #prx #kamasu #orient #cartier
Buying my Presage was purely a 100% emotional decision. You are right: It IS overpriced and you COULD get a far better watch for the price. Yes, microbrands DO offer superior quality for lower prices. But the thing is - at the end of the day, it's still a Seiko. Simple as that. Talk about paying $1,200 on an Apple iPhone, when $400 will get you better features and a superior camera in the Android world. If we follow the argument of "this watch is overpriced for what you get", almost every major swiss luxury watch brand will fall into that category. Hell, why even bother buying a mechanical watch, when even your microwave could tell the time more accurately?? It's not always about rationality and value for money - especially not in the watch world!!
100% agree. Anyone that complains about accuracy on mechanical watch just doesn't get it. And you're right, regardless of the technical prowess of a pressage, it's still a Seiko and just as respected as any swiss watch brand. I've gotten compliments on my green dial cocktail time from dudes wearing Royal Oaks, Daytonas, and JLC's... For the money, you just can't beat it.
It depends on who you ask but for me a brand isn’t why you get a watch, as I said getting a watch is up to you and the main thing is that it’s a watch you like and if you like the presage that’s great for you!
It’s just annoying that brands like that seiko that have so much money and expertise go out of their way to cheap out on their watches when micro brands with not even 1% of the resources are producing better watches for less money
Non! He doesn't even understand that Hardlex isn't ordinary tempered glass, it's what Gorilla Glass is, a special critical glass developed for optics and it's even nearly as reflective as sapphire, and you can tell the difference because it's chemically different. He's just a no nothing ditz!
@@WatchConnoisseurClubMineral crystal is more shatter resistance Citizen and Seiko using it on their entry level sports watches it is acceptable to me
I Guess many Brands Will squeeze a big Margins from one of their watch (low cost prod, high price), may be Presage is one of them, and when some one realize it, Seiko should make an improvement, Cause it is a Seiko
You’re right it’s not great.
…It’s freaking spectacular.
Lolll, to be fair if you can get it grey market for more like $200 it’s an awesome watch, but at full retail price? It’s pretty bad
@@WatchConnoisseurClubbe honest, affordable swiss watches designs are subpar compare to seiko. mido, rado, glycine, tissot, you name it
and microbrand only good on specs on paper, trust me, i've been there,
i used to think my san martin watch is great, great specs, saphhire, ceramic bezel, great finishing. but you know what? after 5 years the indices fall apart, the paint on the hands are pelled off.
the other hand, my 7 years old seiko 5 still like new, dial, hands, case, are still crisp, only minor scratch on hardlex crystal, that u can change for sapphire for $30, but i can't change the dial and hands in san martin.
90 % microbrand are made on china, same factory with chinese brand.
@@WatchConnoisseurClub honestly I have never seen one at the full retail price unless you’re looking at Seo’s website
I do agree with the lack of a sapphire crystal. I think it's extremely lame that Seiko puts a mineral crystal on these, but I don't think any of your other arguments are justified.
The movement is fine and accuracy on an automatic watch is highly overrated and everyone knows Seiko movements are far more accurate than the official stats claim. If accuracy is that important to you, buy a quartz watch.
50m water resistance? How is that a problem on a dress watch? Hell, even the Hamilton Khaki Field is only 50m, and it's supposed to get wet! You'll be able to wash your hands and get caught in a rain storm without any issues. Not a valid argument for a dress watch.
The strap: I own the green dial cocktail time with the leather deployment strap and I honestly don't know why everyone hates on it so much. I find it to be incredibly comfortable, durable and it looks great too... I just don't understand. Ok, maybe it's not Horween Shell Cordovan, but it's honestly a great strap and doesn't get the love it deserves. Can't speak to the bracelet as mine only came with the leather strap, but I do think you might have a valid argument there.
The finishing: You claim the finishing is terrible, but I can't see a single defect or fleck of dust on mine. It looks flawless. Now I'm also not looking at it under a professional macro lens or jewelers loop... But neither is anyone else, so why would I care? It's a $300 Seiko, no one is putting that thing under a microscope .
All I can say is that the dial on the cocktail time is simply beautiful. When the light hits the dial and indices... My god it's one of the best looking watches out there, especially the green dial with the gold seconds hand on that leather strap... MmmMm. Makes me smile every time I glance at it.
I will admit that I almost didn't pull the trigger on my cocktail time because of the mineral crystal, but I'm glad I did and it's my favorite watch. That being said, I got mine on sale for $300, so well below full retail. I may end up putting a sapphire crystal on it, you can get one for $99 which would put it back up close to the full retail price, but we'll see.
All I can say is that love my cocktail time and I think the beauty of the dial more than makes up for the lack of a sapphire crystal. Show me a watch with a better looking dial for less than $1,000.
These are all valid and interesting point my friend!
Thing is for me I’ve seen a handful in pertain and they’ve run an average of around 20 or so seconds a day with a few at 6 a day and a few at 50 a day, thing is the worst part about cheaper seikos these days is the abhorrent quality control, you just got lucky you got a good one!
Also the finishing is only just passable, very basic and industry standard but when you look up close much more irregularities and issues than other watches in the same price range
Also the dials can look nice and they are up there for the money, but the dials being the only part that are good value just isn’t enough in my opinion
End of the day most important thing is to get a watch you live, and not listen to anyone telling you it’s bad me included
(Also second hand or below retail the presage isn’t all too bad)
@@WatchConnoisseurClub With accuracy that bad, you have been extremely unfortunate and very rare! and I have known seiko owners for all my life so have handle on expections, I would call any watch that inaccurate a faulty unit and sent it back to the Company to be put right or replacement. The other thing to consider is, are these watches exposed to strong magnets through work or music studios etc... if so the simple answer is do buy a cheap de magnetisor, or get a Casio for those occasions.
None of the brands you mention come close to how good the Presage dials are. I respectfully disagree. Some of the cocktail times are just stunning for the price and most of all, some of the special edition dials are Grand Seiko level quality for Seiko money, such as the Tokyo Dawn, or the Castle in the Sky releases.
"So baaad", "Exponentialy EXPONENTIALY betterrrrr".
No nuance, no substance. They sound like my mother in law who is a total Karen.
Seiko designs beautiful watches and then ruins them by cutting corners with materials, manufacturing them with poor quality control, and then charging too much for them. They weren't always this way, but that is their new reality.
I agree, that’s why vintage seiko is much better
It's easy to promote yourself on critics's favorite, but now i want you to give me 5 another watch with same beatiful dial.
No issues with mine…. Clearly you just hate seiko. Why I dont trust the brits
Pfft read through the comments, 8/10 people agree with me and have faulty seikos
This video needed to be made. Always good and bad in everything. Being a smart consumer is important.
Agreed.
Yes, I overpaid for my Presage Style 60’s for the entry level specs .. but the dial is absolutely stunning. I haven’t worn my more expensive Swiss watches in months. I occasionally tend to them to give them a wind, but I am “still” in the longest honeymoon phase of all time for what was suppose to serve as a reliable work watch is now my daily driver for the foreseeable future. You are right that QC with Seiko is hit or miss..I think I’m lucky. I enjoyed your video and I will subscribe :)
Appreciate it! This was just a one time moan generally I like watches xD
I'm really pleased to hear you like your 60s style Pressage. They really are beautiful watches. I'm considering the road trip. I just fancy a GMT. It's been on my radar for a while now.
Thats what Seiko are for :). Enjoy.
Thx for the honest review. I still like the design but it is nice to hear a bit more critical perspective
If you get it second hand for more like $200 then it’s good value, but at full retail price? Not worth the money whatsoever
I was choosing between the Presage and a Cream Bambino. On my wifes advice, i went for the Bambino, as it was more versatile. Im very happy with my decision, plus it was about a quarter of the price! Its become my default dress watch.
Much less price for a watch just as good, why orient is currently the better brand?
@@WatchConnoisseurClub yeah its one of the best decisions i made in this hobby. It cost very little and im not afraid it it gets scratched.
Can't go past the Bambino! But couldn't go past the Presage either haha! :)
We buy the presage for the dial
Following your logic, the only sane buying decision you can make in purchasing a watch is to buy a $10 Casio.
Ah, at least someone is echoing the same views. Seiko’s presage, sports, king seiko, and these abrupt anniversary editions or reinterpretations are total rip offs today. As a cerebral buyer who doesn’t get blown over by a brands history, I’d say that seiko is no longer a common man’s watch brand that it used to be. And a watch’s heart is its movement. There’s no point in shelling out extra bucks for a not-so-good budget watch with a movement that it’s not up to the mark. I’d rather pay far less for orient bambino and get a better dress watch with a better movement. I think, apart from seiko’s astron, Seiko’s other product lines are not giving customers what they loved about seiko for at least a century.
I bought a new one, but only paid $325. With leather strap. Don’t need to paid full price.
You are right about the movement. But the crystal is fine. I have some vintage Seiko watches with plexiglass crystals. No scratches. But show me a better dial! You can’t. A simply gorgeous dress watch.
Fair enough! Getting second hand or on sale they’re good value I know where I could pick them up more like $200 range (for a cocktail in good condition) but at full retail price they’re just pretty bad :p
I agree with some things you say. It is overpriced like most of seikos these days. They do have qc issues but thats why i go and pick the one i want from an ad. Hardlex/mineral should be used for divers or even field watches.
I dont agree with what you said about the movement. The 4r35 or nh35 is used by incredible amount of microbrands and as far for the accuracy, they always more accurate than the specifications. And you dont service it every couple of years! You service a seiko when it stops or keeps a really bad time and in that case you swap the movement in less the amount of a service. Could be years and years.
You pay for the brand name! And seiko dials are some of the best ones out there! For the price range.
I dont know where this hate for seiko coming from, presage owners all love their watches. Maybe its bc they are above 40 and their eyesight isn't good no more.. 🤷♂️
Haha! Like I said the presage isn’t terrible for the price there’s much worse in the price range, but it’s just not why all these people hype it up to be, the movement is bad for the price (nh35 should be in more like $150-$200 watches not the $450 presage line) and the crystal is cheaper out on, the strap is alright but the bracelets are abhorrent and for the $450 microbrands are straight up better with no question
I don’t agree with buying a watch for the brand but fair enough, and the dials are pretty nice for the money but they’re not the best in the market like some people say
@@WatchConnoisseurClub i do agree that some reviewers hype the watch to increase the sales, Someone like teddy. When i started my collection i used to be subscribed to his channel. But i hate to see youtubers loading videos for paud promotion on every single video! Like, are you kidding me? Who do you think youre fooling?
I hope you wont.. Ill be watching you..
Personally any watch that cost more than £200 it has to have sapphire crystal and a minimum of 100m water resistant
Fully agree
I have 5 SEIKO presage watches, and they are all very beautiful. One has an ARITA PORCELAIN DIAL ( and all hand-made ) exquisite workmanship. I don't think the boy who made this video had much real knowledge or expertise in the area of fine SEIKO watches.
I don't see this as being reasonable criticism, with the exception of the lack of a sapphire crystal. On that point, I agree.
First, it's important to state the obvious, which is that mechanical analogue watches are little more than jewelry and that if you actually wanted an effective time measurement device, you would run a digital Casio with a stopwatch, date and alarm. The reason manufacturers persist with mechanical watches is to tap into buyer nostalgia and to justify high prices with the excuse of "the craftsmanship and horology". The movement isn't interesting to anyone except an enthusiast and you really won't notice the time difference until a week or more has passed, assuming you even bothered putting it on a winder. What you want in a watch is a nice face and nice case design.
As a functioning piece of jewelry, the Presage lineup delivers where it matters. The faces look great, the case and finishing on every Presage I've seen in a shop (as well as one I bought for a relative) looked fine, and I have better than 20/20 vision. Under a microscope they might look bad, I've never done that myself, but who cares. Some people struggle to read street signs when driving, let alone notice a smudge on a polished indices.
You said the leather band is bad, but what you failed to mention is that as an overall package, the leather deployment strap is a perfectly fine package. It's comfortable, should last a couple of years before cracking and if you REALLY hate the budget genuine leather, you can always get a custom full grain strap made by a leathersmith for a couple hundred, install the Seiko deployment clasp and swap it onto any other watches using a 20mm lug as desired.
For 100x times the price is a Daytona a 100x better watch though?
Yes
that tells me everything i need to know about this channel then@@WatchConnoisseurClub
Yes
You have some valid points, but complaining that a dress watch only support 50m water resistance is just ridiculous, who cares if it's 50m or 100m it's completely irrelevant. I don't own this watch yet, but will probably buy one soon and for me the bottom line simply is that this is by far the best looking watch in the kind of sub $500 price range, and even better looking than a lot much more expensive watches. The other watches you mention and show in this video just doesn't come even close to the looks of the Presage and at the end of the day for 99% of consumers the main purpose of a dress watch is that it looks great, and if you can find a dress watch for around $500 that looks anywhere near as good as the Presage I would love to hear which one that is, because I haven't been able to fine one.
A boy pontificating from his parents' house🤣🤣🤣
Bedtime sonny.
Crystal that is scratch easily, bezel misalignment and poor accuracy are the common problems
Yup
100% agree. Seiko is just not worth it.
Vintage is, but current seiko? Nah
GRAND SEIKO IS BETTER !
@@67tagada well of course they’re 10 times the price, but they are pretty good value for money
To be honest this chick has no idea what she's talking about. The Presage line are some of the most beautiful and timeless designs made by anybody.
You can get Citizen NB1050 with 9000 series decorated miyota, sapphire and VERY nice finishing. No qc issues at all and very classy watch. FOR 450 USD!
Citizen and Orient are where Seiko used to be and beyond.
I completely agree they’re so much better these days!
I agree
I agree
My friend have a presage and as a photography enthusiasts we inspect it in macro mode and we found some of things that you are talking, rough finishing and some debris.
Even my old seiko sus military has better finishing quality than his presage.
The quality issue is just like some SKX series which is famous for the dial not aligned with chapter ring.
as a big name seiko can't do that to a big money products.
I agree, especially with the resources they have
Overpriced? yes. As bad as you say? I am wondering are you sure all the ones you have seen are real seikos? Because the market is flooded with fakes that do pass as the real thing yet then have all the issues you state. Checking the ones i have and I can't see the same issues you talk about. And yes the movement is a bit basic but most perform much better than the basic specs say. Don't forget the specs are much wider than needed because it allows seiko to not repair or regulate every movement that is not as good as most of them are because doing that chews up the profit margin in one go. I have taken a few apart and this issue with debris or other contamination is just not a thing. And this movement is the same one most micro brands use but just with a diff part number eg NH35-36 ect ect. It's known as a workhorse and reliable for good reasons. You make out they are unreliable and need more maintenance...Kida the opposite to what most will say about that movement range. issues and dirty movements is a thing on the fakes and also frankenstein seikos that now flood the market. But yeah they are overpriced but then who pays full retail for a seiko? Most can be had for 50-60% off most of the time.
Are you stupid ?
Thanks for the input,, I was gonna buy my first Presage Cocktail Watch, but after seeing them at the store, I took a pause n re-think it over, bcoz as you said,, It's not up to the hype, I found them kinda regular, not too flashy.. Myb depends on the suits the shirts we'd wear when I put them on.. Maybe. Nevertheles, I didn't buy them.. Now after saw ur video, I get it and agreed, kinda. They really are beautiful but hmm not for me.. Thanks 🙂🙏🙏
Yeah not quite the high end watch they say they are, rather get a vario empire for a circular dress watch on leather
Meh I think if someone's willing to buy it then it's worth it. $500 is certainly not overpriced, even if not the best "bang for buck". Your argumentation could be applied to any watch honestly, as everything above a certain price point isn't worth just the material alone.
What sets me off about the most Presage watches is that they're super oddly sized for a dress watch. They're a little too large in diameter but they're absolutely too damn thick for a dresser. With that bright dial and that huge size it looks like a $5k watch to unknowing people and when you get talking about it it's a disappointment for most honestly. But they still look rather nice and get people talking. And honestly, paying maybe $150 or $200 too much for a watch is nothing compared to pay 30% over MSRP for a swiss luxury watch. You can always get those cheap used unworn alternatively. They'll be discontinued soon anyways like every other watch and the successor will be another $200 more and we'll all be crying our eyes out where the simple cheap models went.
I love my presage.a great dress watch.never had a problem.sooo beautiful.i would recommend
What are you buying it for? If you're looking for a utilitarian watch, that ticks all the boxes for $400, buy a microbrand, If you want a sexy as hell watch to wear during cocktail time, buy the seiko.
The price of the Seiko presage compared to the Seiko 5, using the same movement, kept me from buying a presage. I have a couple watches with the 4r movement, that were half the price of the presage. But yeah, I can't see spending $400+ for the 4r movement. I'm not big into automatic movements anyway. I like light powered quartz.
Yup just doesn’t make sense
Good choice this is overpriced garbage
though what mentions are true, most 4R performs better than what it writes on paper. Usually less than 10sec +/- . Hardlex could scratch, but it won't easily get as what it said.
Wanted the presage but went with the Green Orient maestro with sapphire and 100 m of WR!
A much better watch in terms of value for money!
Please review JDM Citizen watches. They also have good dials but have better movements than the Seiko Presage's 4R35 and a sapphire crystal.
I have the Seiko Presage in green. As much as I hate to admit it, youre right regarding the finishing (one of my hands has a nick in it) and jiggly-ness of the bracelet. Definirely coild be better. Sapphire would have been nice. 50m water resistance is more than enough though.
Appreciate you calling it is, earned a subscriber.
My white dialed Seiko Presage lost 11 ~ 12 seconds a day. This was in the warranty range but I still found it frustrating. This wasn’t a ‘cocktail’ though.
Yeah it’s not great hah
_Mmmmm . . ._ at that price point the Presage is well-constructed with excellent materials and it looks great but they use a 6R35 movement which is a fine movement but far from the best even within this price range. This was about ¥120,000 and it was still a hella serviceable dress watch.
Now that I read about it the loss of 10 seconds isn’t that bad considering its warranty states that it may lose or gain up to 25 seconds a day . . . 🤷♂️
The 4r35. Just calibrate it yourself. It's easy. Mine all run at 2 seconds per day.
Most people wouldn’t be able to, don’t forget seiko is an entry brand and lost wouldn’t know how to take the caseback off let alone calibrate it
Wont find better dials for the money. Movement is fine as well solid AF
Preach! Teddy and Watchfinder make bomb videos which are essentially presentations, commercials to sell you watches in their own stores. I personally don't see what all the hype is around Seiko in general. When I see the gap between the case and bracelet it's an instant turn off.
Yessir! They overhype the watches to sell them for no reason, I do intend on making a website in the future but I wanna either do my own watches or if I do end up selling watches to make enough money to start my own watches I’m gonna be completely transparent and say all the negatives and positives of a watch, I disagree with lying about quality.
For your viewers you should want them to get the best for their money, and as it currently stands microbrand a are just superior to seiko
Finally someone speaks. Thank you 👍🏻
Totally agree. Prices should be lower.
Only time the presage is good value is when you get it second hand at half the price.
Thank you for the video, you just convinced me to order one 🎉. Sometimes you just buy what you like without thinking..😅
Simple: just don’t buy them at full retail price. It’s not a $450 watch but they go for a lot less on the grey market, using an AD discount, or simply pre-owned.
Fair point! If you can pick one up for around $200 then I’d say they’re good value
Don't worry about me hating you for calling one of the most beautiful affordable dress watches "ugly" I hate you merely for your poor fashion choice 😂 Also did you just call Orient a micro-brand? You need to understand the purpose of a dress watch my good lad
Ha! No my dear I did not call it a microbrand at all, also I’ve seen quite a few myself in person and I must say they’re pretty horrid quality! My fashion choice is also much superior to whatever you wear darling, and I do understand the purpose of a dress watch as I have many, and sadly for the seiko presage it’s movement is the same you can get in $100 watches because it’s abhorrent, the finishing on the case is barely passable, the dials are alright but not the best your money can buy at all, the indices are abhorrent too and the straps or bracelet they come with are terrible which is why I said to order your own if you’re getting one.
Point is that there are many many micro brands and such that make higher quality watches with better specs and movements, the presage is cheaply manufactured and if it wasn’t from seiko it wouldn’t go for any more than $200
The purpose of a dress watch is to look good and have class, of which the presage line has neither and on top of that it has horrid specifications as well
Also thanks for the comment and allowing me to reply to it, really helps the algorithm push my content :)
Anyways I have stuff to do so have the most wonderful of days sir or m’dam
I picked up a few of the old seiko 5's a few years ago for £65-80 each. Put on a few different straps, yeah good times.
Then they started the pressage and the 5 Sports and whacked up their prices. :/
they went uptown with their maket-perception. "Marketpace." Hate it--it's bs!!
Back when those old 60-80 seiko 5 were around they were so much better value, now even those aren’t good value because their prices have doubled or even tripled since they’ve been discontinued :/
@@WatchConnoisseurClub ikr prime example SKX007 ! It was under £200 new , now it’s £500 plus with a 7s26😂😂
my 2 years old presage slashes minus 50 - 60 sec a week not a day, i think you are wrong. yeah you are right about glass. it should be sapphire.
Fair enough, thing is the quality control is horrific though you just got lucky and probably the 1 in 100 presage that’s relatively accurate
@@WatchConnoisseurClub i calculated again and it slashes 7 - 8 sec a day and its normal. No scratches on glass or dial in 2 years. I don't understand why you criticize this watch so much. My watch does not match what you said. My friends who use this series are also very satisfied.
@@tonyslark4366this is a crap value watch , you are just obsessed with it because you paid so much and want it to be perfect
They look good to me ,good for the price
Nice video. Would you recommend the Tissot couturier over the presage?
Hi Rudi... Found your video while researching for Seiko SRPG25j1. Well now I'm not so sure, all the microbrands you mentioned is not available in Indonesia and the orient bambino only offered with mineral crystal dome. Do you have any other recommended automatic watch with sapphire under 500 USD?
"Do this, don't do that..." I am fed up with those so called "expert".
Why your point of view would be better than the purchaser's ?
Are you watchmaker ? Did you spend 20 years in selling or repairing watches ?
If not, please, let us do what we want with our needs, our taste, our experience.
Never once did I say don’t buy it and if you read comments you’ll see my firm opinion that buying what you want is more important, the reason I made this video is because large watch TH-camrs are saying how amazing and perfect the presage is so they can sell them on their websites, however 90% of people I know and also have got comments on we’re disappointed with the presage because of poor quality control, basic cheap movement, average finishing and a terrible strap/bracelet for the price point
@@WatchConnoisseurClub Title of your video : "Do NOT buy the Seiko Presage!!". Your answer : "Never once did I say don’t buy it"... Ok guy.
Seiko : Turnover = $1,3 Billions. Not so bad for a so poor watchmaker.
@@WatchConnoisseurClubI agree with you all the TH-camrs are full off crap , this is overpriced garbage, you are buying the dial here everything else is sub par quality.. Softlex , 4r35 , shouldn’t have a date .. it came with a 6r35 in 2010
When I saw the video thumbnail I was expecting a troll video. Instead, you present a well-reasoned opinion backed up with facts. Deeply appreciated as I've long eyed a Presage. I might just go the Tissot PRX route instead.
The support is much appreciated! Also as much as what I said is true, the main thing is to get the watch you are in love with, doesn’t matter if people think it’s bad or it’s not the best quality as long as you love it
tissot prx or tissot gentleman..prx bracelet very very high quality btw... sapphire crystal, 80 hours power reserve,very accurate movement i also have hamilton khaki field (the same movement with a different name)
Tissot is good … i own mojito cocktail seiko , tissot 516 and seiko spb317… i realized why ppl are crazy for swiss brands .. they are real bang for the buck…
A dude with earrings and a ponytail. Giving advice about anything is questionable.
I paid $215 Canadian second hand for my 60s style. It's a nice addition to my mid range/high end collection. For that price with box and paper work. I really can't complain. I also don't have microscopic vision.
Though you do make a solid points. Great honest video. I enjoyed it
Thanks! Also yeah for a price as low as $215 Canadian it’s pretty good value for money! Just for full retail I think it’s bad
4r35 is a fine movement more accurate than you suggest presage is $ 725 in Australia got mine 400 you don't like it because of your skinny wrist and microbrands have no history . Love mine won't listen to you.😊
At that price point nothing comes close. Orient? No. Citizen? Maybe, but it still looks crap in comparison...
Presage line has a signed crown at least.. XD Seiko's diver line never give us a singed crown so they look so cheap to me.. haha
Seiko are just so overhyped people think it’s the be all end all but they really aren’t all that special xD
I agree 👍
I agree. Seiko used to offer similar quality to Swiss watches for half the price, today Seiko is as expensive or more expensive than Tissot, Hamilton, Certina, Roamer etc. and is of much lower quality.
They don't respect customers so they will lose them and I say this as a former, long time fan and defender of Seiko.
Completely agree with you, vintage seiko are amazing but newer models are straight up bad
I was a Seiko supporter for many years, now I gravitate to Citizen but I like my tool/Diver watches now.
Gorgeous beautiful dial …. But originally they came with the 6r35 movement which is much better , they don’t have a sapphire crystal only Softlex , it should have no date … Seiko have gone so overpriced lately 😅 I want the watch but it has so many short comings .. Hamilton give you sapphire for cheaper so do many many other watches including micro brands … Seiko can quite easily put a sapphire for the same price but prefer to screw the customers 🤷🏻 basically you are buying the dial here
Genuine video and review - not entirely accurate especially on some micro brand movements.
Still, despite the style, I agree with another poster in that an honest (non paid for) review is always welcome.
Great dials, crappy leather bands.
Ha! Fair
I can allow every loopholes for that brand and dial. But the movement and hardlex crystal is a dealbreaker.
Hey man, good video! I'm a bit of a Seiko fan myself and it's nice hearing someone be upfront about them resting on their laurels. Owned two Presages, three of their divers and even a King Seiko reissue. A lot of them get spanked by Orient or even some aliexpress brands which also sometimes use Seiko or Seiko Time Corps. movements. It's the QC that I'm most disappointed really.
But I will say, I still like Seiko because it's a Seiko. Branding and all that. Also, they have a distinct look and design as well, and a lot of them happen to appeal to me. At least you can get some of them on the gray market for much cheaper. Ironically, some of their quartz offerings have sapphire crystals!
Yeah it’s just a shame where they’re headed! For the last 4 or 5 years they’ve just been on a downhill slope which is a shame because their heritage and vintage pieces are soooo niceeee
Well said! I love Presage dials, but I never pulled the trigger on any because of the crystal and high price point. Disagree on your movement comment though, the 4R35/NH35 is robust and easily regulated.
Gotta disagree with the movement but yeah the dials are good I’ll give them that
@@WatchConnoisseurClub I have 4 Seiko Presage watches with the 4R35 movement which are still working fine without being "serviced every couple of years" and all run within 4 sec/day, I regulated 2 of them as they were running about 15 sec/day, very easy to do but still very far from the 35-45 sec/day you claim then for some reason rounded up to a minute a day, and if any of those movements fail I would buy a new movement for less than the cost of servicing it! The only thing you are right about is the QC which dipped on non "Japan" made watches although with some basic watch tools you can clean a watch face with some Rodico very easily so not really an issue.
You are confusing the much cheaper NH35 unbranded movement (currently £36) with the branded Seiko 4R35 (currently £84). Seiko started putting Exhibition case backs on their watches when China started making fakes, the glass back was so buyers could see the movement was genuine and they have stuck with it, not as you think to show off the stunning movement. Every day is a school day!
Definitely with you on the sapphire. Should be an assumption at that price. The other gripes aren't deal breakers for me. I'll still buy one because I'm a sucker for those dials, but I'll wait until I can get one on sale. They frequently go on sale at The Bay here in Canada for around $300 - $350 CAD
So many presage watches with Sapphire. The video cherry picks like crazy.
The SSA421J is Sapphire and can be found for about the quoted price in he video. So is the SSA200J1 and SSA193.
Oh dear the cheap presage has sold out so screw presage im gona go for the Mont Blanc 7019 ive seen for £340 used, it has the look im after and well engineered too, what is your opinion of this brand
Not too familiar with the brand but after some quick research into it’s specification it seems alright yeah, looks good too
Hard to take you serious looking like that.
Wow, lit them up *mic drop*. I have to say for $300-400, yeah you can get better specs, but the design is unique and very attractive. There is value there. I have a micro brand that is $300 and blows these specs out of the water, but doesnt look as cool tbh.
They do shave really good designs, the execution and specs are just the bad part, which is disappointing because seiko have so many great resources they could make them so much better but they try to minimise cost and maximise profit
Damn, that was a lot. No idea what you're on about the finishing though, just looked down at my wrist and fell in love all over again. The presage line genuinely just has Grand Seiko levels of finishing and design but to each their own, pricing isn't everything, buy what you love.
seiko have history compared to micro brands you are paying for the name too... seiko have the right to do this....
If you’re buying a watch of low quality for a brand name, you do you, but it’s a terrible decision and bad outlook on watch collecting
@@WatchConnoisseurClub I’m not advocating for this watch, just giving the reason why they can do this. It’s silly to compare seiko to microbrands… it’s basic supply and demand…. Your complaining like it’s highway robbery… at the end of the day $500 is cheap for a watch especially a well known brand people will pay for this…
@@chongymeister14 true however in terms of being mass produced the microbrand watches actually have a smaller supply as well as a smaller demand and yet they’re still far cheaper with higher attention to detail and specifications
well yes microbrands need to do this because they haven't established their brand in the industry yet and no one knows who they are... my point is paying for the name is worth more than the actual cost it takes to create the watch... do you really think rolex's should be worth $10k+.... their history and years of marketing themselves as a luxury brand has allowed them to do this and it has made them a household name.
for example dr martens make low quality boots but they can still price their shoes higher than most brands even those brands who make better quality boots simply because of the brand... People will pay for the silly yellow stitching alone.... These brands have already stamped themselves in modern society... quality means nothing in relation to demand... @@WatchConnoisseurClub
There is only one reason, the crystal.
Your thumbnail states “scam”, the meaning of which denotes fraud or dishonesty, neither of which apply here. If Seiko were stating sapphire crystal and providing hardlex, for example, you would be justified in using that word. But you’re not. So either you don’t know the correct meaning of the word, or you do and are just providing clickbait. Either way, it’s a fail on your part. Having said that, there are much better watches at this price point you are spot on there.
People buy Seiko for the brand, and frankly I couldn't give a shit about the crystal - never a big deal for me, I don't bash my wrists against walls or doors!! The water resistance is also NOT an issue for me - if I want a dive watch I'll buy a frigging dive watch!! The big weakness is the movement - the 4 series movement is cheap junk that is often used by Chinese Aliexpress brands. Even the higher range 6 series movement, which is used in the expensive Presage watches, isn't much better either. If you want a quality Seiko you need to go for the 8 series movements, which are only available in the most expensive Seiko watches. So yes, it IS a scam, but not necessarily for the reasons you outlined.
Thank you , How do you feel about the Seiko Prospex Alpinist - SBdCO91 ? I'm more of a Casio type dude
but I'm getting older slowing down & trying to enjoy life before the wicked arrive .
I Agree with you,, i'm a big fans of seiko ,, still wearing my skx013 until now.not planning on buying a new one,because like you said,seiko not worth it anymore.now i prefer citizen or orient over seiko.

i'm new to watches and glad i watched this video, thanks! i'm in love with the look of the presage, but can't get over the fact it's mineral and not sapphire; i could probably deal with the other stuff if it just didn't have a crappy crystal
Nice dials but the specs aren’t all that, check out Jody’s watches from his brand EREBUS, incredible dials and specifications!
I think you can say the same about the Alpinist, at least aesthetically. The big ugly magnifier over the date, and the weird, off-putting part leather strap, part metal clasp band.
Agreed!
Do you think the Orient Star has the same issues ?
No the orient star is better value, sapphire crystal and orient as a brand has much better quality control then seiko, the orient star is a great pick!
Finally someone is saying it.
Seiko Presage isn’t bad right, but for this price you can get better and your arguments explain this very well.
Yup! I dislike how people on TH-cam overhype them and say they’re so amazing just to sell them on their own websites
Please suggest me an alternative (open heart ) for same price , am about buying and stopped cuz of your video
3 months and still waiting for an alternative...
Orient FAG00001S0 its around 370€ brand new, you could get a used one for less...
@@roelfo Orient FAG00001S0 its around 370€ brand new, you could get a used one for less...
Depends which presage series. The sharp edge is excellent in my opinion and worth every penny.
That accuracy varoes alot. Some are almost costc certified. Almost, like the Tissot prx powermatic 80
Well you can regulate it yourself if you know what it’s doing and vastly increase the accuracy
I have multiple hardlex watches, and I was never able to scratch the glass on them.
I know, in that price range you should get sapphire, but hardlex has it’s advantages too. First, it is more flexible, thus harder to break, second, it is extremely cheap to replace if scratched or crack.
Btw, I have a Seiko 5 with a 4R36 movement, with the promised accuracy of plus minus 45 seconds a day. Well, after measuring the watch’s accuracy day by day, I was in the + 3-5 seconds range per day. I don’t know if I’m just got lucky, or these movements can run well if you maintain them. Just don’t expect a superlative chronometer.
Yeah the accuracy ranges quite a bit they aren’t very consistent, still a good watch just extremely overpriced for what it is that’s all!
Okey Genius go buy Grand Seiko 😊
Pfft no need to be rude my friend xD
I proved my point with valid information if you like the presage good for you because liking a watch is the only reason you should buy one and is the most important I just don’t want people being disappointed when they get one
Also grand seiko is alright! But we’re talking budget watches here lad :)
No such thing as hardlex? 😂 Its not a basic mineral crystal its seikos own blend. It's decent
I'm French. I don't often watch videos in English, but congratulations for your video. I almost bought a Presage. You opened my eyes. I prefer to orient myself towards Citizen, Orient, Casio, which have better value for money.
Yup! Most important thing is to pick the watch you love, but I still thing it’s important to see what have value and what don’t first
This guy just seems like a Seiko hater
then i dont know why my pressage doubled in value , problably because its limited ) i dont know why someone would buy a non limited unit
Limited editions of big brand names will always go up in value :P
Its about brand equity, Seiko is trading on a name its built up from years ago. Had there been another name on that watch it would not sell like you said.
Exactly! As much as brand names are good you want a good quality product rather then a brand name, that’s why micro brands are generally a better option then big brands when it comes to budget watches nowadays
@@WatchConnoisseurClub A good mark is a sign of quality and assured value due to quality craftmanship and expected performance Or it used to be. People knock Chinese brands and microbrands but that is where the value lies. Will I get to sell my San Martin for as much as I bought it? No... I do however don't see any reason why it wont last as long as my Seiko's if not longer given that they use superior materials and better finishing. Anyway, Hope you have a great day!
@@johanvandersandt8904 and you my friend! Also for the 300-500ish range San Martin are some of if not the best watches, finishing is excellent, movements are good too
@@WatchConnoisseurClub For sure man. They make good stuff!
@@johanvandersandt8904 hell yeah, great quality
You really like yourself hearing talking eh? What exactly makes yourself a watch expert?
I'd rather have my Casio.
An extremely valid opinion, better watch and less money
Casio Duro is a Good watch, I have one, go fro the model with the Marlin on the dial and back if you can get hold of it.
@@DavidLee-yu7yzduro is an amazing watch that only cost as much as a good strap xD
Didn’t know earrings were still a thing. Huh.
You need to calm down. I just bought the presage watch today for over a $100 dollars less than you keep bleating about. The dial is absolutely gorgeous and strangely enough I don’t attach the watch face to the bottom of my shoe and drag it along the road. Furthermore I also don’t have see through wrists so I can’t see into the back of the watch. Add to that I rarely get a visit from superman with x-ray eyes who can spot an electron sized particle on the movement. The only thing I agree with you on is your dangly earrings look silly and when you are sent to Russia to fight against their soldiers don’t let them catch you wearing them. 😂😂😂😂 All the best for the future 👍👍👍👍👍
1. Who pays full list price for a Seiko? Most AD sell at a significant discount to list price. Much closer to the $350 - $375 range.
2. If there are SO many microbrands that do better, why do you only mention two? The build quality of the Mitch Mason Chronicle (if it was available) may be better, but in no world is it a dressier watch.
This was a joke of a video without offering realistic alternatives (you know, stuff that's available to purchase, a very real issue with many microbrands).
No worries n you're right... Most microbrands at $2 - 300 range did do better...
Which is why I'm getting my Ice Blue presage preloved n still in good condition...
At 90 bucks. 😁
At 90 bux? Great watch! Main issue is they’re iverpriced
@@WatchConnoisseurClub Precisely why I'm getting mine preloved n it's pretty mint too...
I was rather surprised at the condition when I saw it, but 90 bucks is a pretty good value purchase...
The seiko presage is all about the dial. Thats its only selling point thats very true and sad.
Yeah especially when seiko have so many recourses :/
I own the presage, and actually was thinking of swapping the bracelet for delugs leather strap, Good argument.
Delugs leather strap is most definitely the better pick lad! And main thing is you enjoy the watch don’t listen to what other people say about it, me included
@@WatchConnoisseurClub I do, but I always criticized the movement and bracelet, the dial is beyond the price (white zen garden open heart with 24hrs sub dial)
Not to listen to your argument?
My argument is the same as yours, which truly shows how strong your argument is so I will listen.
Grand Seiko or nothing
Lol vintage seiko is cool like quartz superior