Is Rotobrush FINALLY Good Enough?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ส.ค. 2023
- I test the rotoscoping capabilities of Rotobrush 3.0 in the new After Effects beta and then compare it's performance with rotobrush 2 and rotobrush classic. Can I burn my greenscreen yet?
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Greenscreen isn't going anytime soon unless some crazy A.I comes out that has some kind of general intelligence, and can identify what's semi-transparent hair and what's not. After Effects unfortunately is not the best tool for keying because the keymix workflow doesn't offer a lot of control, as well as getting into detailed edge fixes. A complex detailed key on feature film can involve mixing together 20-30 keys together. Nuke is still the way to go!
Couldn't agree more. If only you could convince my pyromaniac twin.
AI will do this within the year
Clever Spin on this Update... I'm more impressed on how well you scripted this content. You presented a simple improvement update and made it entertaining to watch. That's Content Creation at its best! Thanks for posting!
Hey thanks, that means a lot. Maybe I'm getting better at this TH-cam thing eh?
straight to the point and entertaining - keep up the great work Joshua! I'll def. give that new 3.0 a splin whenever I get the chance 👌
Hey thanks. Glad you enjoyed the video. Thought I'd try something a bit different.
damn you're too kind and polite, I like that cuz it's rare to see such people these days, keep it up buddy!
Thanks, that's nice of you to say.
The fire pit cuts were funny, nice work.
Hey, thanks! It was fun to make
Great InfoTainment
Keep it up Josh
Thanks! Will do!
Great video, entertaining as well as informative.
For those not wishing to learn After Effects, is Rotobrush or a similar function coming to Premiere Pro?
Glad you like the video. Not likely to ever find it's way to Premiere Pro I'm afraid.
I love your work!
Thank you!
The best background removing to me is still the Delta Keyer in Davinci Resolve Fusion page, with additional, but very important plugin that makes Lightwrap effect. Trying to figure it out if there`s something similar inside UE
Lightwrap is complex inside unreal but Im going to make a tutorial on my patreon for this soon.
@@JoshuaMKerr good to know!
Really impressive progress.
Thank you
oh wow didn't even know it was out and it looks very impressive already
I'm definitely impressed. How are you anyway man!
Hahaha nice , the burning scenes are epic .😂😂
Haha cheers. I had fun
What is better / most used currently rotobrush 3 or runway?
After Effects is more widely used
Great video!
Glad you enjoyed it
When can we use it in the app (instead of beta version)?
Not until it is released. I don't know when that will be.
Great !
I had to rewind it twice to hear you say "BAY-Tuh" instead of "BEET-uh" -- Amazing! You seem to have a British accent to me, and unless you live here in the US as an ex-pat or dual-citizen, you seem to pronounce "beta" the same way we Americans do. I'm flabbergasted ;-) -- btw good video, that ai-powered roto stuff is getting good (assuming it's AI enhanced)
I has about 50/50 Bay-tuh and Bee-tuh takes. I just happen to like Bay-tuh ;)
AI is really ramping up I think.
You had me there for a minute!
Haha. Can't believe he still burned it. That damn pyromaniac twin of mine
LMAOOOO seeing that match get lit is so funny everytime
God i cant believe i used to use roto 1 (classic)
I remember rage quitting AE after trying roto 1
@@JoshuaMKerr 💀😭 oh god i’ve had my share of those. Love your content though man! Thanks to you and your unreal engine content, im a few steps closer to finishing an important Idea to me that I have. THANK YOU!!!
@dat_Rasta Hey man, you're welcome. Glad to have you watching.
It was funny 😂
I haven't tested it yet.
Can you rotoscope more than 60 frames ? rotobrush 2 was limited to 60 frames, impossible to roto on sequences of 10 or 15 seconds without the tools loading from zero as soon as we exceed 60 frames.
I haven't come up against a 60 frame limit on my end.
How is it compared to runwayML?
Oh, really good compared to Runway ML. Considering it has edge refinement tools as well as speed now
@@JoshuaMKerr thanks for replying. Is it better than RunwayML or similar?
Someday AE will work like a magic mask in Davinci Resolve..someday
Probably not unless Adobe give it an overhaul. I think a comparison needs to be done.
I mean, it looks good in AE, I tried it with some footage from a TV show I'm working on. I'm a compositor. Trying to bring a nice alpha from it into nuke is a nightmare!
Interesting, what is the main issue?
@@JoshuaMKerr It's a difficult bluescreen shot with hair. Thought I'd try it out. The alpha gets messed up on export, probably compression issue and I'm just trouble shooting to find the right setting.
what is your export format. Is it a raw clip?
@@JoshuaMKerr I'm loading in an EXR, which might be the problem, adobe doesn't manage EXRs well, so I'm trying with TIF. I've tried a bunch of exports in different settings. I think the problem is adobe colour management and not being able to work at depths. The rotobrush craps out if you linearize and it all works fine in the closed system of after effects, but getting the same information out doesn't seem to work.
@@JoshuaMKerr I got it working. It's amazing for making mattes. Going to save loads of time. The problem is setting all the colour settings, working with tifs, and colour correcting the matte in nuke, but the data is there. Thank you!
I tested on my side, Rotobrush 3.0 on After Effects and Magic Mask on Davinci Resolve
After effects complated same work in 6.5 minutes and had to cache same clip for 2.5 minutes to watch. 9 Minutes total.
Davinci Resolve complated it in 6 seconds. Instant playback
When we ignore waiting time and watching for results: After effects is far behind from Davinci. Adobe is just.. doesn't work anymore
I'd agree if time-spent was the only metric. In my tests, the initial matte is so much quicker in davinci. But when it comes to the quality and control that after effects gives you when it comes to edge refinement, I would take Ae over davinci hands down. The end result is so much better, and reliable.
Hi sir with version ou after effect have rotobrush 3.0
It's the beta after effects. It can be installed from creative cloud
@@JoshuaMKerr no sir i men 23 or 24
24 I think
@@JoshuaMKerr ok sir i will try it thanks
Try some wispy blonde hair blowing in the breeze with a subject wearing glasses and let me know how it looks. ;)
Rotobrush is great for garbage mattes but still nothing beats tracked rotosplines (Mochaa/Silhouette) combined with multiple selective keys. Too bad Disney lost the only sodium vapor beam splitter prism ever made...
Yes I would have loved to see the sodium vapor tech rebuilt (or reinvented).
I've done plenty of complex hair shots with rotobrush (mostly 2.0) , the refine edge tool works really well for fine details like wispy hair or smoke so no issues on my end.
Compare Rotobrush against DaVinci Resolve's Magic Mask
I'm keen to do this test
Exactly 💯
🔥💯😆🤙
Totally
cool bt funy
I still don’t know that these roto brushes are good enough for green screen. Keying still produces a vastly better result.
This is great for times when you need to separate actors or things from live action plates though.
The refine edge tools are where it's at. You can get an incredible result with roto over and above GS. You might be suprised how much roto goes into movies that were shot on green stages.
@@JoshuaMKerr Roto is sometimes the only option. Sometimes its a good compliment to green screen....
Nuke - Using CopyCat for Roto with -AlfieVaughan
th-cam.com/video/4RLnzdSoEMY/w-d-xo.html
....and sometimes its not good option if you can use green screen to get your mask. Quality is a matter of effort put in and decent green screen is typically either faster method, or better option for certain type of situation. Especially if you are dealing with semitransparent objects or multiple subjects and objects intersecting your main subject.
Adobe says: "Next-Gen Roto Brush is the latest and improved version of the Roto Brush tool powered by a brand-new AI model. It offers enhanced precision during the selection and tracking of objects in footage over time and space compared to Roto Brush 2. This makes masking complex objects such as overlapping limbs, hair, and transparencies quick and easy."
Maybe next time you can put it trough torture test to see how far this hold up. Transparency test. People walking in front of you. Similar type background as the subject etc. Also how well does it work with clean high rest footage and low rest compressed footage. Things like that.
Or fine hair details. Refine edge can do a decent job, but its usually slow, memory hungry, and AF is prone to crashing and since rotobrush is not a plug in that you can use in more stable host, one is stuck with After Effects. Also, once you have created your rotoshapes and mattes, it depends on what you are doing with it. If its simple enough composite, ok fine. If its something more complex, you might have to use other programs, which means exporting matt and re importing etc. Its great we have tools we didn't have and certainly rotobrush can be used for a lot of VFXs. but I would not ditch green screen or think After Effects is best compositing software, especially with more complex compositing projects.
You can't get better results than Green Screen, only if you are doing it wrong, or working with terrible footage. Roto does offer compliment to Green Screen, but its super slow if you need quality and should not be first option unless one has to use it. AI tools for roto have made quick roto, but sloppy roto faster, however you are going to run into all sorts of problems if you need precision and in the end after all the corrections, you are not all that much faster. Green screen still offers based quality for time and effort, although pulling a perfect key is also not one click done type of job. Additionally, After effects is prone to crashing, its old code that does not really do well in modern productions and layer based approach quickly runs into problems with more complex compositing. Leaving people to use node based compositing systems. Nuke or Fusion or Flame. Unless rotobrush can be used as a OFX plug in, its stuck with problematic host. Its good Adobe is improving, but as many have noted, its an old code, its a layer based system and with complex composition it suffers from stability issues, limitations of layers.
People still do a lot with it, but its mostly I think because its easier to learn since its easier to understand layers and it still has great plug ins. But if you are just as perfection with nodes and use Nuke or Fusion, its hard to get particularly excited about rotobrush. Also I completely switch for this kind of work now to fusion, when I tried to use Rotobrush 2 and simple roto for 250 frames and it gulp up my 25 GB of scratch disk and crashed three times. In Fusion, same thing, bearly needs more than 500 MB of SSD and did not crash. So, as many people have complained, After Effects needs complete rewrite of old code and new node based workflow and instead Adobe just keeps adding new stuff on top of the old, making it unstable mess. Same is problem with Photoshop. If I had half the things Resolve has in Photoshop I would be happy, but Adobe insists of patching up old instead of providing better.
Decades of Adobe's Technical Debt (and our Next Software) | CorridorCast #138
th-cam.com/video/aVNCgmAsI8c/w-d-xo.html
After Effects needs to be Rewritten or We're NOT Using this F*ing Program | CorridorCast EP#137
th-cam.com/video/YeopaTW16kA/w-d-xo.html
Anyone here knows what Davinci Resolve is?
Seems like I'm going to have to start doing Davinci comparisons for every video I make.
@@JoshuaMKerr lol just saying davinci rotoscoping is extremely good bro, nice video by the way.
@@arthuroverway5035 Cheers man. Davinci has some cool tools too.
Hi sir you speed up the video when you use rob3 our not becaus i test in my computer but its slow its take 1.50 betwin frame and other this is normal our i have slow computer
I timed it live. Nothing is sped up.
Your resolution might have an impact and your quality settings for playback
@@JoshuaMKerr which cpu you use sir in my computer i use i7 4790k and i have 16gb of ram this is best for the progress our i mast to check the resulition like you said
But it's not really a real-world scenario, isn't it?
In real world you would roto something that is not on a green screen to begin with. If you have footage recorded on a green screen you wouldn't roto that footage, just key it out and have much better results.
That's not necessarily true. My understanding is that roto and greenscreen compliment each other very well, roto is often used on shots where something went wrong with the green screen too.
But besides that I get some lovely results with roto nowadays and sometimes prefer it because green screen can be a pain when shooting in a small space like my studio.
Im not totally bothered about what people consider real world right now, I'm more interested in where the world is going.
@@JoshuaMKerr Problem with rotobrush is that it can work when you are doing something for yourself, or for youtube, but in a professional environment - when you are doing commercial work for an ad or film - it's just too much jank associated with it.
It's ok when you are doing a tutorial and want to cut yourself out or something, but if you have 6k RAW footage and are doing a client work where you have to be pretty much pixel perfect, you basically have to do keying combined with manual roto if you want the shot to look good.
We've bought recently Mask Prompter (AI roto plugin for AE) in the company that I work for and pretty much I'm considering refunding it just because of the jank associated with AI roto, and pretty much most of the time it's faster and with much better results to just open MochaAE and roto by hand.
@Krzyh4 I thought mask prompter was a load of rubbish.
I work largely in corporate and commercial work so understand that landscape and the quality required. And just because these are TH-cam videos I don't treat them with any less care.. Possibly more in fact because they're mine. So when I shoot these greenscreen or roto segments I do so in 4k prores 4444 if not raw.
With that in mind still think the newest rotobrush offers a lot.
But look if you have tools you like already this doesn't negate that.
Adobe rotoscoping is garbage. But since Runway did in a month what Adobe couldn't do in a half century, maybe they feel like they actually have to try now.
I've been impressed with roto 3 over and combined with their edge refinement it just beats runway for my money. That said, this is just based on Initial tests
The green screen burn took me a second 😂 but I’m not going to lie I’m a bit sad, soon I may have no excuse to wear the green suit around the house 🏡 thanks boss 😎🖤🫶🍭🐓
It's okay, you can still wear it.
hey, good stuff! How to contact you?
How can I help you?