Exploring Joy Division & "She's Lost Control" | New British Canon
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ต.ค. 2019
- Thanks to Squarespace for sponsoring this video. Go to Squarespace.com for a free trial and when you’re ready to launch, go to squarespace.com/trashtheory and add code “TRASHTHEORY" at checkout to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain
“Love Will Tear Us Apart” casts a mighty shadow on Joy Division's career. While the Manchester band recorded two studio albums, alongside a host of singles, demos and radio sessions, nothing seems to get as much hype as the song etched on Ian Curtis memorial. And because of that I won't be talking about that already canonized song, but instead a cut off their monolithic 1979 debut album, Unknown Pleasures. Same too about "Disorder", "Atmosphere" or "Shadowplay". One that best exemplifies Joy Division's devastating use of space, their brooding anti-funk grooves and Martin Hannett's (producer of Buzzcocks' Spiral Scratch EP and Jilted John) experimental production. The song that cuts right to the heart of the singer and lyricist Ian Curtis, his raw desperation and the cult of genius surrounding him. A song that inspired the next wave of post-punk and beyond, but also pointed to Curtis' end itself. This is New British Canon and this is the story of “She's Lost Control”.
#joydivision #unknownpleasures #videoessay
Soundtrack:
Stars As Lights - Days, Weeks, Years Gone By (starsaslights.bandcamp.com)
pracs - Kilt and Cutter ( / pracs )
Stars As Lights - Maps and Constellations (starsaslights.bandcamp.com)
Stars As Lights - The Sound of Our Hearts (starsaslights.bandcamp.com)
B-Side - Pen Anubis ( / b-side-production )
Luar - Anchor ( / luarbeats )
Subscribe for more Trash Theory
You can also follow me here:
Twitter: / trashtheory
Facebook: / trashtheoryyt
Or patronize me here:
/ trashtheory
So what's better: "She's Lost Control" or "Love Will Tear Us Apart"?
Trash Theory playlists - Spotify: tinyurl.com/yxp32pjf
Deezer: tinyurl.com/y2mdp8h2
Also if you want to help out, here's my patreon link: patreon.com/trashtheory
Really hard question. I liked Transmission a lot too... Anyway I've started dating someone and what brought us together is our love of Joy Division, so this video is really nice :3 you rock man
she's lost control is better, but I'm mostly describing the 12'' version.
My Joy has always been "Dead Souls" and "Atmosphere", considering the droney shoegaze type stuff that would later consume my life.
I am more of a shadow play kinda guy
Love Will Tear Us Apart. My favorite track , Auto Suggestion.
Imagine being one of those who saw The Cure & Joy Division on the same night in a small club.
David Ellis a real uplifting night out
@@nikobellic339 i die
@Broc felix LUCKY. I could only imagine how crushed you were when you found out the news of his passing though
I really wish i were here
@Broc felix thats actually a really cool story my friend
Joy Division is forever one of the greatest bands. It's criminal how underrated Stephen Morris is as a drummer.
You just nailed it.
I live in the small Cheshire town where Ian lived and died, I regularly walk past his memorial stone in West Park Cemetery, there is always fresh flowers and new little gifts and trinkets left by fans, gives me hope that there are still people out there that appreciate obscure but brilliant music...
Joy Division are nowhere near obscure.
Look out for the graves of Nelly May and Harold Wright - my grandparents. They're not far away.
@@Ziad3195they aren't but sadly, there's this god awful online trend that downplays, mocks and discards any band or artist from before 2010 as "boomer music".
One of the greatest bands to ever exist
Paris Minto I like your profile.
@@reisure thanks
Great profile pic. I love Fat Bob, he's my fave artist of all time. The influence of The Cure's catalog on me, is indescriptible. Discovered them in college and that's what made me step outside of punk and discover other genres. The Cure shaped my life, their influence on me can't be understated.
@@FinalBaton hell yes my dude.
Well said
The number 350125 wasn't a concentration camp number, it was Rufold Hess's prisoner of war serial number when he was captured in Scotland
Correct.
31G-350125 to be specific
@@iancrates8962 31G! 31G!
Wow
I was just scrolling down to see if anyone else had pointed this out already.
The whole "we don't do t-shirts" thing really bit them in the ass later. When they (as New Order) were being investigated by the taxman, he asked why they hadn't shown receipts for the money earned from t-shirts. They gave a long spiel about how they didn't do merch because it was "blatant profiteering, the work of the devil, etc, etc," to which the man responded "How come everywhere I go, I see Joy Division t-shirts, then?" They didn't have an answer and, as such, were fined 20,000 pounds, the highest ever fine at that time.
Your telling me that ian got mad at Bowie for living?
Suicidal people be like that.
He thought bowie felt the same as him, he felt lied to
@@Kino_the_Crusty Yes with Bowie that was part of his persona with Ian his lyrics were reflective of his state in reality.
I missed that. Why was Ian mad at Bowie..?
There was a lot of that about in those days. Honouring that whole living on the absolute edge until you fall over.
@@allisonchainz82 Near the start. There's a clip from Young Americans about not living past 25, supposedly Ian was angry at Bowie for turning 30. If that's ture and he was sincere, it's a telling example of the extent of his depression as has been said, i would just empathise how unreasonable and almost childish it is. i'm not crticising him, i'm sympathising for the state of his mental health. it's so sad no one was able to help him with red flags like that...and so so young when he died
It's amazing that Curtis was a married teen dad , especially in the beginning of an era where many were pointedly avoiding such common life traps.Compounded with poor health, it's a wonder Joy Division,- and there would have been no JD without him,- ever got off the ground.
Imagine thinking finding a wife and having a child is a trap. The real trap is not finding those things, the man-child trap.
@@GeneticVehicle Certainly a possible conclusion or take, - it depends on why the connection is sought, out of insecurity, and lack of imagination, or out of some actual constructive instinct( rare at that age).I wouldn't pretend to know stranger's hearts, thus, I'd say the odds generally err towards lacking other ideas.Any idiot can get( mutually) knocked up as a teen, - it doesn't take will, heart, or love.It's why there are so many damaged people walking about.
@@GeneticVehicle Unless you have an incredibly strong support network and a real deep love for your partner and you planned it. It’s still difficult being a teenage parent and it’s easy to feel like you’ve lost any semblance of independence and regret your choices.
There’s not many people that make a lifelong emotional, financial & lifestyle commitment in their teens.
Well he cheated
@chris mcCabe I'm the " moran" , huh? Off by a year or two, most people that can spell one syllable words knew what I meant.If you're not 12, 18 and 22 are same thing.
People don’t understand how good hooky, Bernard,Morris and Curtis were for the time they played
Yeah, they do get it. It's just a smallish club.
I like that he explain why he chose this song instead of “love will tear us apart”.
In short, the songs better, or not as overplayed.
Joy Division's sound was highly influenced by their environment. Northern England is the working class area of the country and it got hit by the recession in the late 70's the hardest.
Digital is such an underrated song. I'm so glad you included a few seconds of that song here.
The '350125-31G' Warsaw line was NOT a 'Concentration camp serial number' reference but Rudolf Hess's prison number Post-war.
That's true. I'd forgotten that
We're rapidly approaching the 40th anniversary of Ian's passing. He is more widely known now than at the time of his untimely death. This speaks volumes about his impact on music.
Ian Curtis hung himself the same day Mt. Saint Helens erupted. I doubt that Ian ever knew, or cared for that matter.
That live version is so much better, I cannot even listen to the studio version now. The live version is one of the most breathtaking live shows available on youtube, to me at least. My Mother was epileptic, so the subject matter is very dear to me. RIP Mom and Mr. Ian Curtis, you both inspire me every day.
Agreed. Hence why I chose to cover that version instead.
Sometimes its better to be self taught. Look at all the great records that have come from situations like that. Paul Simonon from the Clash used to have the notes painted on his fucking fretboard! You don't have to be a member of the Philharmonic to make great art! You just need to fuckin' love it!
Hear hear!!
Now do Joy Division's sequel: New Order
Redrally that would be a good title "Joy Division's sequel: New Order"
None of New Orders stuff was as compelling. They sure were popular but I don't think the music was anywhere near as artful or interesting
Joy Division 2: Electric Boogaloo . Seriously though, and I say this as big fan of both, that apart from 1 or 2 songs they sound nothing alike. Ceremony tho... What a song
@@agdgdgwngo wasn't ceremony written when they were Joy Division?
@@Revealingstorm. Power, Corruption & Lies and Technique. Enough said
I was randomly thinking about this song today and then this pops up in my notifications lmao
That's pretty cool. You must be psychotic.
Same, especially the BBC Something Else Performance,
GOOGLE IS WATCHING . . . TRUST ME... RESEARCH IT . . WHEN YOU SPEAK ON YOUR MIC THEY HEAR YOU AND SHOW YOU ADS ACCORDINGLY
Good good the new chips are working..... (wringing hands)
I think about this song every day
3:33 it was Rudolf Hess' prisoner number
The 12" single version of "She's Lost Control" is far superior to the album version. It is a masterpiece, one of the best records of all time. I always feel like something's missing when I hear the album version.
I agree.
Listen to grace Jones version. It is not bad.
Which is the one featured in (the Euro version of) the Substance compilation.
Spot on.
same
24 Hour Party People is a fantastic film that gives a glimpse of this scene. Also I've always wondered how much DEVO influenced Joy and how much David Byrne got some dance moves from Ian. I love all these bands so much...
i watched "Control" on the 18th, a few days ago, for the hundreth time.. tonight "24 hour party people"
I loved the quote from Hooky about Walt Disney, that was so incredibly funny, hahaha
Joy Division named Siouxsie and the Banshees as of their primary Influences. Siouxsie and the Banshees's first John Peel Session dated from November 1977 - that day, Siouxsie and the Banshees premiered their song "Metal Postcard" with machine-like drums, bass as the leading instrument and serrated distorted guitar, which directly influenced a then unknown band of Manchester called Warsaw - who then retransformed themselves a few months later as Joy Division.
Beautiful video, as always, even more so here because of the somber reality of it all. Shout out to the film, Control, which I thought did a great job at showcasing Ian's life without exploiting him and the band for a quick buck. And lastly, R.I.P. Ian Curtis who, along with The Cure and The Smiths, got me through the shittiest period of my life, high school. Long Live, JD and NO.
Got ya Buddy!
They did an excellent live version of She's Lost Control of course in the aul film.
I fell in love with this song the first time I heard it. I fell in love with it all over again because of this amazing video.
I was given an unknown pleasures t shirt by my mate Kevin Hawkins, who got it with the record as a give away. This was New Zealand in the early 90s.. I assumed he'd got the record much earlier than 94... (must've been) Dunno exactly when. This may have been just a New Zealand promotional thing. Great t shirt. When I finally had to Chuck it away, it had big holes in it... R.I.P. Kevin, and thanks bro.
Just here to say this is absolutely my favourite Joy Division song and one of my all-time favourites by any musician. It's one of the few songs I know that isn't afraid to go "there". And it terrifies me in a way that makes me continue listening to the song again and again.
Bro please do a video on New Order. Their transition from post punk music to dance and new wave is probably one of the most interesting stories I've ever read about, and I think it would really fit your style of videos
Great video. One of the things that is rarely mentioned: it is true that Hook played very high, on She's Lost Control on the highest possible register on the bass. But he does the same as - yes - Jaco Pastorious. He's playing it along with open strings, in the case of SLC the open d-string, making the notes he plays kind of chords. He was doing it a lot of the times: 24 Hours, From Safety To Where, Love Will Tear Us Apart, Insight.
Bernard Sumner - according to Tony Wilson - said the most intelligent thing about Joy Division ever. It goes as this in my memory: Punk used very simple and primitive tools to express something very primitive and simple: F*ck You! Joy Division used the same primitive and simple tools to express something very complex: I'm F*cked!
I'm listening to a lot of different music and still listening to new music and like some of it, but for me Joy Division is still the biggest and most unexpected thing ever happenend in the history of pop-music. Kind of like: even our desperation is more beautifull than your happyness.
The most striking thing is: none of them were skilled musicians. They started making music in their 20s. Hook couldn't even tune his bass. But if you would ask me about the 10 most important songs ever written and recorded in the history of pop music, a lot of them would be Joy Division. Joy Division is much more important in the history of pop-music than the Beatles. They are like Cave Paintings. Ducking away.....
Dirk,
Really well written and accurate insight and Comments.
Outside of The Birthday Party . . . Joy Division
influenced ALL genres apart from what the
Jesus and Mary Chain's Jim Reid called American
"Moron Rock" which was the Eighties North A mnerican cock rockers (Hair Metal) garbage like Bob Jovi, Poison and that talentless Motley Crue who are trying to pass themselves off as American versions of the Pistols and the Damned.
Nikki Sixx from Motley Crue seriously believes their first album was "punk."
RIP Ian and Jaco
The sound comes from the fact that Sumners guitar amp only worked at full volume, Hooky couldn't hear himself without playing an octave up. It was Ian Curtis that latched onto it as the Joy Division sound, realising that it was unique among their peers.
The sound comes from the fact that Sumners guitar amp only worked at full volume, Hooky couldn't hear himself without playing an octave up. It was Ian Curtis that latched onto it as the Joy Division sound, realising that it was unique among their peers.
@@FrostedSeagull great comment! As an American I had to search and find the great bands that I was into! Almost all have been British and it’s a lot easier now. But dear God the hair metal era was awful!
I do recall reading that She's Lost Control was inspired by a lady he'd met as part of our job, in his role assisting the disabled settlement dept.
For me the most interesting part of the composition is where the main guitar and bass riff separates off in the coda, literally splits apart, breaking up the structure but not falling apart. A lag of 2 bars. The effect is devastating, a breakdown in harmony, signifying mental/societal breakdown? .
Yes at the end of the song. Replete with entropy and chaos. Frazzles the brain! Can't think of many songs that do that so devastatingly.
You know Bernard deserves some credit to Trash Theory. Although the was almost kicked out the band he was probably the only one who understood the lot
you talking about bernard sumner? the nigga who single handedly fucked up new order? peter hook owns that man son
@@isaacdebolt3637 "Bernard Sumner, the nigga"
@@isaacdebolt3637 Wha?
@@isaacdebolt3637 lmao
Killing joke or echo and the bunnymen next!
I vote Echo.. either would be worth watching.. peace
dinglebatmc macatron I LOVE killing joke
Luv em both - but Echo, tho - gotta vote Echo
Echo next pleaaaaaase!! Ian's ambiguity and beautiful spaced out lyric writing and the bands all around entrancing creative sounds needs to be explored and explained!
Killing Joke , the ultimate musicians band. Have had songs covered by both Mettalica & Foo Fighters. Just did world tour with Tool. Echo & The Bunnymen peaked on the excellent " Heaven Up Here " and Ian Mac seemed a bit much after that. But 2 Great Albums to start.
Love both "Unknown Pleasures" and "Closer". Played both lps alot. If I had to choose something from each that was probably my favorite -- "New Dawn Fades" and "Decades" would probably be the ones although "The Eternal" might run a tie with "Decades". All three have a huge amount of emotional energy to me anyway.
Just seen your comment, yep, totally agree on those two. I've just said the same before scrolling down! Masterpieces. I remember coming back from Bournemouth on my scooter with the Hessian version of Still. Even the outtakes and oddities were welcome.
Beautiful cover image. Truly iconic. A pulsar, white on black.
Your video essays are top notch man, incredible research and presentation!
both loved 'she 's lost control' and 'love will tear us apart'.
No other band would have combined that guitar part with that bass line. First time I heard it, I couldn't believe it. Absolutely blew my mind.
Joy Division was a mind blowing group.
One of my most favourite bands ever
I love the videos, the editing, the photos and videos, you’re truly talented at what you do, you and the entire team, I’ve found a lot of new music because of you. Thank you.
The best track from one the best band ever.
And Ian Curtis dancing always blows my mind.
Great content!!! Thank you. I really enjoyed how you structured the video. I wish others would take a page out of your book.
I have to say I never made a connection between "Be My Baby" and "She's Lost Control." OK, I guess it's there in the drums, but just barely. Someone should do a mashup -- Phil Spector's song over the Joy Division beat.
No, we need less (not more) lazy mashups.
I would buy that
Exploring Her's next? Underrated band that was lost before their time.
Genuinely brilliant but they were lost in the sea of other bands of the whole bedroom pop/indie scene and never got a viral hit. Cool With You is such a great song that will never get its due.
So true. R.I.P Her's
Speed Racer has a The Smiths vibe as well.
AGREED
Heard them on Siriusxmu radio today turned up the volume for the boys, rip
Excellent review by the way, I wasn’t picking on the video as a whole when I made the last comment.… Keep up the good work
Bravo!!! I’ve been getting into all your videos recently, I’ve been really impressed with your level of research but Joy Division and particularly “She’s Lost Control” were an aspect I assumed I knew everything about, as always I was surprised and amazed by the facts I discovered.
Thank you so much for this amazing video ❤ Truly inspiring to get this piece of history with us. You have made this uneventful day a brighter one thanks to it.
My absolute favourite band. So glad you covered this.
well needed and executed video. thank you.
rest easy ian
I read the poetic lyrics of Love Will Rear Us Apart to the old folks at the Assisted Living last week, then played the song. They were awestruck.
He loved his Rick n took dream though, fame, success, early death.
RIP Ian Curtis.
Love life New Order
The album cover image was also on A monitor on the spaceship "Nostromo" in the film "Alien", during A landing sequence towards the beginning.
... and I thought I'm the only one who has recognized that ...
@@komakinookI've watched that film so many times Ridley Scott could build a real "Nostromo" and keep a pet "Alien" in his personal Zoo with all of the Residual checks I've sent him. 😵🤤
Great video as always mate!
Neu! Is pronounced noy
Churro daddy noy division
why do i read this comment as “Neu!(pronounced ‘new’) is pronounced noy”
it’s a paradox
Mt. Saint Helens, here in the US, had her major blow the day Ian died. I was all of not yet 10, and wouldn’t make the connection until my 20’s when introduced to the song that really hooked me: Atmosphere. She’s Lost Control, my next favorite. And surely, our mountain here on the PNW lost control when Ian crossed over. RIP Ian.
8:47 omg, what a mad lad... his production on the album is absolutely legendary, I have never heard anything quite like it
This is actually heart-breaking. Great video, as always
mate ! Another fantastic video. Ian will forever be such a sad soul that wanted so much more and never quite got there.
One of my favorite Doors tracks. "Riders ON the Storm" not riders of the Storm! HeeeHeee! 😁 Another very well done essay!
This analysis itself is a masterpiece. Thank you so much. Ian and Martin would be proud.....
This is our favorite series on TH-cam. So well done! We wonder your thoughts on the book Lipstick Traces? Your wealth of knowledge is impressive and the stories are refreshingly interwoven; the audio recordings beautifully tie together vast amounts of info and show a keen critical eye (and ear) ..... Thank you! We are your newest fans and love seeing so many of our favorites here! Does TH-cam restrict monetization since so many samples have to be used? What’s the best way to show support so we can continue to enjoy your videos? Cheers ! Holly and 808 (BOB)
Im just sitting here eating pizza and watching your videos. Fantastic way to spend a sunday evening. Thank you.
Great analysis, thank you. RIP Ian.
GODDAMMIT @TrashTheory ! You're videos are too good!! reminds me of VH1 in the early 90s.
Incredible video mate 👏
3:09 How happy he seemed here and how sweet that baby was!
The song was given further exposure when Grace Jones took it into the charts - minus the syndrum and bass hook, and even more deadpan vocal.
Great video. Thank you.
I hope you do a New Order one too
Joy Division and New Order are my Favorite Bands. Tied for first.
What "Blue Monday is not the most important New Order song?"
Yes it is.
Anything that they were going to do on New Order, 24 Hour Party People already did it.
@@CATCATDovahkiin same here actually. I sometimes view them as the same band
@@CATCATDovahkiin my top 5 bands atm if you were curious
1. Joy Division/New Order
2. The Smiths
3. The Cure
4. The Beatles
5. Radiohead
@@tylerthecreation998 Same, I just did't want to say that because some people get pissed when I do.
Another great segment. Thanks for discussing an innovative band. Shawn R., Mo-Mutt Music/Sacred & Secular
It's actually quite weird how many amazing bands the UK has given the world.
Fantastic Work!
This does a good job of explaining how & why JD was so influential.
Thanks for the great video
Seems like a lot of the information in this video is from the very fictional “control” movie
very true. and from 24 hour party people, which was even more fictional. ians thoughts on bowie were far from negative. 24 hour party people made that up for sure.
As a fellow epileptic i absolutely love this song.
Myself as well. Diagnosed in 1973. Stay healthy.
He's dead, so you are not "fellow" at all.
THIS has always been my fav Joy division song!! So underrated
Can't still belive they made beautyfull film about Joy Division... I am REALLY BIG FAN for so so so so so so so so so so long..... Ian Curtis had a REALLY messed up life had first love wife, love affair Annik Honoré and obviously epileply .....I hope Ian Curtis is in heaven now 🌹🌹🌹🌹....I'm glad that i'm British and I always will...
Song @ 0:56. It's driving me nuts. I can't get the Violent Femmes 'Blister in the Sun' out of my head to get this song.
Love the lines on the drum @8:53
Superb channel this!
Brilliant video, but I was somewhat anticipating a mention of Spoek Mathambo's cover (entitled "Control") and the accompanying award winning video as a notable influence.
I have this (first pressing) autographed by Ian at Eric's. Thinking of auctioning off the collection I used to go to Probe and then Eric's and have alot of autographed records and I'm on the way out...
You ok?
Ah yes, the song that brought us the 2019 Brexit headline "MAY DIVISION - SHE'S LOST CONTROL?".
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law Now seemingly applicable in other contexts.
And now we have Blue Order.
@@julesakers3051 Hahah, that's incredible. Did you come up with that one?
@@Stelios78910 thank you, yes all my own work.
One of the best and most influential bands ever.
these videos are amazing. so informative. thank you :)
Retread video based on clips and stories found in other videos from years ago.
Two superb albums that still sound fresh and relevant Joy Division should and would have been one of the best bands to grace a stage anywhere! Ian Curtis is remembered for all the right reasons, his incredible vocals and haunting lyrics.
I wanted to have a show at substrate gallery just because Saville had a show there. There were so ahead of their time.
Huge post-punk northern England scene....
Love Will is beautiful. But the anger in the live versions of She’s Lost Control is very special, the guitar tone is brutal. My all time No 2 favorite song. No 1 being the 7” version of Wardance. Both songs to smash up whatever.
Watching sat in a portakabin at twilight by a warehouse in Macclesfield (Ian's birth and death town). In the rain. Sometimes life makes sense.
Jules Akers I hear that
Brian Wilson said something like " the first time I heard that drum intro to Be My Baby I nearly crashed my car! " Thank fuck he didn't!! Lol. Be My Baby though! What a monumental giant of a song! Ronnie Spector. What a girl. Joey Ramone knew the score.
Paul McCartney did the aerosol can thing for his solo debut in 1970. Not sure if he was the first one to do that or not, but perhaps Hannett got the idea for it from hearing the McCartney LP?
Joy Division and New Order are tied as my favorite band.
Same band only Bernard Sumner sang.
@@anthonya2479 I know, people get mad if I say they're basically the same band
I consider them the same band, just in different stages. Kinda like King Crimson. Both are the greatest in my book
For essentially being the same band in terms of their line ups, in my mind they are radically different. I am a fan of both bands but in my opinion, Ian Curtis was in an entirely different league than Bernard Sumner as a lyricist and Ian's vocals are so much more genuinely expressive of his discontent with the world and I'm sure that's why so many people connected with him. New Order obviously lasted much longer and they recorded a lot more songs and played much bigger venues, but to me Joy Division was 100 times the band New Order ever was.
Anthony A and there lies the problem, he couldn’t.
Do how Psychedelic Rock became Metal!!
Huge thank you for not talking about Love Will Tear Us Apart.
Ian Curtis has been my Hero for the past 16 years
And your STILL Alive!?!?!
epilepsy is such a debilitating condition. people dont realise how hard it makes life.
Life is hard and then you die.
Outstanding. Thank you.