Has ever occurred to any of these companies that people stopped buying bikes, components and equipment because they are so expensive and don't justify the price for the average consumer? No wonder they are not selling anything. I worked in a bike shop as a salesperson when things were somewhat decent, but now they are out of their minds. They want to make money from every bolt. I do get that they are businesses, but a lot of potential customers don't have a tree to collect money from. I have an example: A driver on a rear hub of dirt jumper cost almost half of the price of a new rear hub. That is not normal. When I was a kid, biking was dirt cheap, even if you had the pinnacle of technology (for the consumer, not for racing/competitions). Now it's slowly transforming into a niche sport for the rich. There was a joy in riding a bike, that is now gone. Discovering new areas and going further than you could get while being on foot. Now everything is Garmin's, Strava's and showing of who's got the bigger balls by getting the ever-increasing expensive bike. Where is the joy in that?
I live in Mississippi. The average salary for the state is $47,000. If you average the price of all the stumpjumpers on Specialized's website (do we need 12 versions of the stumpjumper?) but the average price is $5562. That is 11% of your pretax income. Bikes are effectively too expensive for most folks.
No, it hasn't occurred to these companies because they think they can still direct the narrative of the market which they have since the 80's. But the market and customers have changed drastically, and they still have no idea on how to handle it. Note: for small shops, this opens a huge hole to fill with customer service and used bikes and parts. If I had a traditional retail store, I would be aggressively looking for used bikes to refurbish (which I do now) but also add a huge number of used parts and accessories to complement the new products I'm selling. Especially for service! Because let's face it, customers are feeling a financial hit on everything else and just don't have the funds for "New".
@@IKnowAGuyBicyclesyes indeed, but that will not stay like this for very long if the manufacturers are going to keep increasing the base price and then the brand itself will up the prices. Sure, it will still be cheaper than the price you can offer to a client, but not considerably. You also have an advantage because you have your own store and set whatever margin you want if it's still economically viable.
@@IKnowAGuyBicycles I do understand that they "rule the show", but how much is really enough? 50000 dollars for one bike? Maybe 100000? It has to stop at some point, and it has to be done by the customer who will refuse to keep buying the newer model, because the last year's model is obsolete in their minds. They took this practice from the smartphone manufacturers, and release "new models" every year without any real improvements, in most cases almost the same frame but with a slightly better group set (if the previous one came with Ultegra, this year will come with Dura Ace.). Same for the mountain bike side of things, just different group set names. Anyway, as I said the customer has to stop following this consumerism trend, because if you take care of a bike, it will be functioning great for a significant number of years. The fact that you provide the secondhand bikes option it's very good. Like you said the "customers are feeling a financial hit and just don't have the funds for New.".
Spent my whole life in the bike industry and retired right before covid after the last 30 years on the wholesale side. I love the bike industry and still help a local shop out part time because its so much fun wrenching bikes. As I look back, things were so much simpler and I feel for the shops that are struggling just to stay in business. The old joke "how do you make a millions dollars in the bike industry", start with 2 million" is so true today. Good luck!
@@IKnowAGuyBicycles you can get a Status mtb for 3k.... way better than anything in the 90's or 10 yrs ago. Don't need to spend 10k on a bike to get something good.
Bike prices are just too high! When motor cycles are cheaper than bikes that's a problem! A Specialized SL8 19k a KTM team addition 450 notor cross bike 10k. Go figure?
Make you wonder how many of those 19k bikes are made and if they are even sold at retail. I'm sure the numbers are low. Do they come with a 15-30 year loans?
Last year I was saving for a new Trek Slash. When the shop told me the cost, i laughed and left. I went over to the motorcycle dealership and bought a new KLX300, full kit and gear, saddlebags and some other things. I found a used Beta Techno 250 trials moto for 800. I got 2 motos, full safety gear and all of that was still less than the Trek. 30 years and living in Steamboat Spings and the costs pushed me out of pedaling. Ill keep my Giant Anthem. Its a shame these cycling companies pushed me out.
In Feb. 2023 I bought my Specialized Creo SL Expert Carbon EVO at my LBS for $9750. Took until now to get everything right, but I love that sucker. Out every morning at 6 to 7 am here in Southern Arizona for a hour and a half ride. Use eco mode only. Love the Di2, hydraulic discs and dropper post. Sure it was expensive, so is my Apple stuff. Traded my Lemond Zurich in. Needed the ebike to get up a steep Issaquah hill where my son lives. 87 years old.
That is what they say about ebikes, but I didn't buy it for an easy ride. To get a workout, I use the eco mode, which just makes up for the weight of the bike. @@IKnowAGuyBicycles
I agree with the used market. When bikes cost like cars, residual value is key. Especially In the e-bike space which is probably where growth remains. As the economy is tight, an e-bike as a car alternative becomes attractive.
They've sort of painted themselves into a corner. If the premium-increasing prices are based on higher quality then even if used should hold value and so for customer it becomes "..okay I'll buy a used bike because it's basically as good as new..". If that's untrue and a 4+ year old bike is falling apart then how justify the price for brand new! Other areas of the economy have gotten goofy with prices. Dog breeds that sold for $1,000-$1,200 around 2018-19 now are priced at $2,800-$3,100+ and yeah sure inflation and vet costs have risen but come on. It's like every breeder is looking to see who's the first to lower prices and meanwhile they're going to get "stuck" with a 5-6-7 mo. old "puppy" or lower their prices or cut back on litters. We need a real reset to bring costs-prices back down but everyone's gotten used to their salaries-raises they don't want to go backwards but it's perception mostly. If bread is wheat; flour, water, yeast etc.. then cost to grow the wheat and mill it etc.. should be stable over decades or even decline as farmers, bakers increase productivity yet prices go up just because someone in the mix demands or gets a raise and it shifts everyone else to demand- get a raise to maintain perceived balance. Burgers were $10 and now they're $17+ for same bun, tomato, lettuce that has been same plant that's grown on this planet for centuries..
@@nittygritty7434printing money is the main cause of inflation. If we had the same number if $ in the market the natural state is deflation caused by increase in product through increased efficiency. And of course the big expensive bikes and cars are insane as well.
This was a hoot to listen to, thank you for such an honest, fresh and on point take. Customer focus 👌 plus giving the mechanics time to ride in the morning before starting work is the dream set up. Everyone is happier to work on bikes if they’ve got a ride in beforehand 😄
Came across your channel, and listened and watched...it was like going down memory lane. My brother and I started a bike shop in the early 80's, selling what ever we could the first year. Eventually getting Schwann, trek, cannonade, bianchi, klein, etc. You are so correct, when we opened, we used to sell 300 bikes for kids at Christmas, then , BMX was hot. Soon, mom and dad, started buying bikes for themselves, and another market emerged. Every one came in and said, i want a bike i don't have to bend over to ride, soon the MTB and hybrid arrived. I love bikes and still do, I sold one of our shops in the mid 90's. My brother, ended his bike ownership in 2021, with his best year ever, but he knew it was time to retire. How right he was! I still ride 3 to 4 times a week, and this spring I took a part time job at a bike shop in town, that has 11 other stores. I wanted to work at the shop to get back into the local social scene in bikes, since I had moved 900 miles west. The shop, was very corporate, data driven, computer entry very important, but the folks coming in were looking for the family bikes, or a hybrid, etc. Eventually, although i was selling lots of bikes, I could not master the 9 steps in the computer program of gathering data on the customer, accessories, mechanic schedules, lay a way, special orders, etc, and let the manager end my employment, which after a few months now, makes me happy to not be working. I enjoy mt biking, gravel, and road riding and wrench my friends bikes for free. I've crewed on a couple solo RAAM races, started bike clubs, co-directed many Tris, sponsored a Cat2 team, started a group that wrenched bikes for poor kids, training the children to take apart and rebuild a bike, that they got for free after the session. I remember when i was out on a road ride, in the 80"s, meeting an engineer riding the first Cannondale prototype, we switched bikes, and I rode it before it was on the market. Schwinn home grown, Klein Attitudes, Campagnolo tool set, Bianchi Supperleggera and Eco pista, etc. I'm not a fan of Specialized although I own 4 of their bikes. They have squeezed the dealers, as you mentioned, to get the best margin, you had to buy from all the categories. Specialized screwed us, as dealers, and I'll never forget. They were nothing, in the beginning, no one knew their name or bikes, but the LBS, got behind their bikes and pushed them up the hill to the top. I think they are pushed a little thin, but they will survive. They cut some fat, but they still sponsor 3 pro UCI teams, which I figure must be 90 to 100+ S work bikes per team, plus equipment. Is it worth it, in Europe, yes of course, but here in the US, other than the Tour, hardly any one follows pro cycling. Keep up the dialogue, Some one i knew is involved on the credit side for a big bike company who says, Specialized is teetering. I hope they do not fall, the consequences for the LBS and the bike industry would be catastrophic. Time will tell. Keep the faith!
There is so much to unpack from this, and thank you for sharing. I, too hope they don't fail, but I know a lot of smaller shops have and will continue to if they don't put support back into their shops that made them what they are today. That includes Trek as well. But you can't tell the big guys anything until their bottom line falls out, and it may be too late. But old guys like us just keep doing what we to because of the passion for cycling now and then. Cheers to you, my friend!
@thomasgallagher1062 I was in the business in the 80s also. We were local to spesh. There was a time they were dealer friendly. The beginning of the end was the tire program. Then the bike program etc. The bike companies wanted to cut risk, I suppose. So everyone did bike programs, which guaranteed pre sold product they didn't have to stock and plan their cash flow from the bikes they forced the dealers to buy. The arm twisting continued with clothes etc. The goal starting with the tire ads was driving consumers into shops asking for spesh tires. No one really aggressively advertised like that before. My opinion is they really became a marketing company that happened to be in the bike business. I don't think anyone was nearly as sophisticated in the earlier years. The trap has been keeping the hype up year after year. That puts a strain on the shops having to buy more bikes than they could sell, then being stuck when the next years latest and greatest is pushed by the marketing machine. I finally ended up in a position of working for spesh or getting out of the business. I imagine you can figure out what I did.
Man, I have been waiting for someone to say this! We have a great bicycle shop here in my area, I watched them build the Specialized brand for 30 years and then they turned around and stabbed the guy in the back. I was so pissed off for the retailer that I wanted to burn my Specialized bike on line and post it. The guy that owns this bicycle shop cut ties with them because he has great integrity and customer service. Honestly, I hope Specialized does fail, they deserve it. They got lost on whom the important people are.
I remember Mike Sinyard tried to sue a Canadian shop owner over his shop’s name bc it had “Roubaix” in it! I never have nor will give a cent to Specialized.
One thing that amazed me with business choices during COVID... All of these companies saw a rapid change, people buying bikes, Zwift getting many more subscribers, Peloton getting a ton of subscribers. They all seemed to expect this growth trend was going to continue. It boggles my mind.
I totally saw this coming, it was all over the tea leaves. But they have a really hard time with change especially when it's downward trends. Investors don't like the truth sometimes or they are afraid to just bite the bullet. At this point it seems they really don't know what to do at the moment. There is only so many levers to pull until you are out of business.
@@IKnowAGuyBicycles it’s just crazy to me there is no forward thinking with investors. It always seems so short-sighted. Even looking at the Wahoo situation, it seems like they over reached during the pandemic as well. Decline in support, explosion in products, purchasing RGT and now trashing it.
@LukeHague investors don't look at the long-term game like they used to. It's all short term gains and move on to the next hot ticket. Investors today, sell and buy, steal and cheat like a crack head trying to maintain there habit. As long as they make quick money they can care less what the long term out come will be for a company. Same with hedge fund firms. They buy and sell fast. It's about fast money and gains. Slow and steady is a thing of the past. The revenue is simply not there with that model.
LBS is the glue that holds everything together… invaluable information. They always give me deals on everything. My LBS has my loyalty for life. I had bad experiences in other bike shops and never went back in ever. Customer service is always the key…. Warren buffet once said nobody remembers years later what they paid for something… they remember how they were treated.
Exactly. Online option you get a warm cardboard box and a courier ticket. After that, good luck. A long successful business is only about people. Have a guess where canyon are heading. Short term thinking... all our distributors are rejecting warranty issues on individual components on canyon bikes. We charge canyon tax on service now, especially when people are angry at their own poor buying choice after problems with new bikes. It's so frustrating to see people on a poorly suited and poorly fitted bike purchased online, where there's nothing we can do to help. The customer often doesn't have any funds to change the situation and we sure can't do it for free. Where's canyon in all of this? Phone number on the courier docket or invoice? Sure ain't anyone to see in person. They're not interested in people.
If you're getting deals then you're dealer isn't getting full margin. And full margin is calculated on the amount necessary to keep the dealer in business. 10% discount means no operating profit on that sale. 15% discount is a 5% loss, but hey, you "supported" them and they at least got a sale, right? Most customers won't be as loyal as you, gladly taking the dealer's warm welcome, cup of coffee, valuable info and advice - and then buying cheaper online. The only way to genuinely support a favourite dealer is to pay full RRP and go nowhere else to buy, like we all used to before the internet, but no customers actually do that now. Something has to give. Your dealer has your loyalty only for as long as he's still in business.
Hi David point taken, I did not say it was on a full build bike off the website. This was a frame up build and they supplied all the parts at some what of a discount or perceived discount. The parts were taken from other builds when customer did not want the stock parts. The bike shop offers them some sort of deal for the unused parts and they sell them to someone else for a profit. I have them build at least 5 bikes per year and pay for all service and buy lots of equipment from the shop as well as sending everyone I know into the shop. Most people want to feel like they are getting some sort of deal and form a relationship with the shop. When your
If you google "supply chain bullwhip effect" it pretty much lays out the exact situation that we all just witnessed play out in a lot of industries. Bikes just happened to have an extreme case of it.
3:27 and Eastman Kodak. In the 1970s they were on top of the world but eventually went to zero. It was unfathomable. Imagine the iPhone becoming obsolete and Apple going bankrupt and disappearing as a modern analogy.
Mountain bikes are out of control , one of the main issues is that the sport has evolved into skiing where people go to bike park resorts every weekend as it's typically people in the upper-class that can afford to do so . Bike manufacturers know this as they jacked up the prices over the past 10 years as people making 150k+ a year can easily afford an $5-10k bike. Residing in NH , during the warmer months there's a line of vehicles heading North from Massachusetts every weekend , many carrying suspension bikes to the Bike/SKI resorts in the White Mountains as they use the ski lifts . Not me , as I'm still bombing through the various trail systems in my area as I enjoy climbing uphill on my old ass bikes.
Specialized started off building bikes to purpose but ended up building to price point like everyone else was doing. When I first started riding pro bikes you just bought a frame and fork set and chose what components you wanted. The market is vastly different now.
It's crazy to see how things have changed since the 90's. And yes, the landscape has changed a lot in the last couple of years, and we are in a new norm. We will never see the market like it was, and I'm still not sure where it will land. But I do know there are still a lot of shop owners and employees who have a high level of interest in going and growing their cycling community.
You have to go back to the late sixties to find when they sold frame and fork sets. You can still buy frame and fork sets today but it is less than one percent of the market now.@@IKnowAGuyBicycles
@@IKnowAGuyBicyclesgrowth was exactly what put us in this situation, we need less people riding, not more. Specially when the demographic MTB is attracting is middle aged men with way too much disposable income for bikes but not enough for real middle aged men hobbies (young hot women, sports cars, golf, polo and the like). MTB used to be a sport based on strength/endurance (that weeds off most people) and it now is gravity dominated with all kinds of rider aids. Manufacturers know this and catered prices to that. Bottom line: all cyclists suffer the consequences.
Specialized never built bikes. The official company name remains Specialized Bicycle Components. They started out as an importer and distributor of European cycle components to address the 1970s bike boom. Developing "own-branded" components made in Japan came next, and then complete bikes made in Japan, then Taiwan. Spesh got to owing its main bike vendor, Merida, a huge amount of money. As a result, Merida now owns 49% of Specialized. The only bikes Spesh ever actually made were a few development prototypes.
Pretty simple: specialized wants $15k for a bike. You can get an evil for $8k or a diamond back for $6k. I just fompared the top of the line for all 3. The issue is specialized was testing the elasticity of demand and they got greedy. Another thing i noticed is that parts availability never did recover ftom covid. This is not an accident. Manufacturers realized they could make more money by scaling production back, creating artificial demand, and raising prices. This is capitalism and this us why capitalism is not good.
30:55 Here in Las Vegas I've never once seen any used bikes in a bike shop anywhere in town, only new bikes. I like your philosophy that. Nice to give a new rider a choice by having new and used bikes to choose from. It's a win-win situation!
I have a 2000 Stumpjumper and a Salsa Timberjack. They are both simple and rip. The Stumpjumper is lighter than any of the new hardtails (minus all the schmo tech) and makes the local moderate trails near me a blast. Lived in Colorado Springs years ago and ripped around on an SE Stout 29er single speed with rim brakes. Made the trails a real challenge but increased my tech skill 10x. Road bike is a 1980's Fuji club (red/yellow looking like Ronald McD) with some new age wheels and SRAM components off a totaled Madone. Keeps up with snobs on 10K bikes all day and doesn't require a wifi connection.
I still have a 2001…I think Stumpjumper Pro…paid $1,100 at the end of the season…or it was a Specialized mark-down sale…USA made frame in black red and silver with a Manitou fork w/lockout…one step below the Carbon “bridge” Mars…..XT/XTR group set…🥰….never selling it
It's nice to be able to say it how it is and not be influenced or worried about the outcome when working in a shop with these brands. Without having any contracts with any of these companies I'm truly independent. And just say it how I see it. Thanks for watching!
Back in the 90s I managed bike shops for a well known national chain (P……….). To make my managers annual bonus we had to meet several sales goals. I almost choked when I learned we had to sell 1,100 bikes for the year. We did it. ( I had a fantastic team ).
Bike manufacturers are going through the same market realisation as the car yards in the US are currently going through. They could get away with high prices but now they can't and all the unsold inventory proves it.
Please "Like" and also " Share" to keep the conversation going. Also, The Drink I have in this video is a Bing Energy Drink, and I'm completely sober in all my videos. If you think I'm slurring my words, maybe it's from having a stroke over our industry being upside down. Or lack of sleep from my children. (or Both) In any case, that's just how I speak, so be kind. More insights from my perspective with 30 years of experience in the cycling Industry in the playlist: th-cam.com/play/PLdfUXv0-z1u42bZpCLWmT2VtNW-7AIf2A.html
This is really great to watch. Every bike company executive should be forced to sit down and watch this. Who’s buying $5k to $10k bicycles?? Would they not do better selling five $1000 bicycles vs. that one $5k bike? (With five times the service opportunities) Thinking about someone whose kids are older, now they can afford a new ride, and have the spare time for it, walk into a dealership and see a bike for $5000. They turn around and walk right back out. Or, see a $7500 bike on “sale” for $6200 🤣 It’s going to be interesting.
We will see how this all plays out. I would bet lower-cost bikes are coming. That's if they were smart. Plus, focusing on better customer relations is much needed as well.
The difference that will make or break LBS is customer service/experience. I know shops that won’t even touch a bike they didn’t sell or stock. The service department is where the future money is. Retrofitting older models, assembling DTC brands, fitting, servicing suspension, and even offering used bicycles are revenue streams LBS can control
That is very true, and the pinch is you have to have enough volume to support a liveable wage for good, experienced employees. If you don't have that volume, you will start scaling down to my shop size. One man band in his garage. (which is awesome, by the way) but thats me at my stage of the game.
Yep volume is key, wages are only increasing, consumables increasing, red tape, insurance etc. We're in our 3rd year as start up LBS, service revenue is approx 10% of our total game at this stage still. Selling bikes with reasonable margin is key to keeping the lights on, but also hopefully getting that future service work ongoing. There's no guarantee there though, we have loads of bikes coming through sold from other stores. Probably the majority of our service work isn't bikes we've sold if I'm objective. Our customers are older, doing less riding, needing less service. Might be different if they were all mountain biking and breaking stuff every day.
In the UK, pre-2011 was great in the cycle trade. Smartphones happened in 2011 and that introduced "price-shagging" where even friends of the store would dictate what they were prepared to pay. Barcode scanning and showrooming became commonplace. Saturdays became no different to Wednesdays. Customer loyalty is a myth, and quality of service counts for little. RRP went out of the window when the customer got the internet in his hand. Shimano was being retailed online at less than cost to stores, and the distributor had no answer to this. When auditing our business properly we found that our very high quality service department couldn't possibly turn a profit and was always subsidised by sales. Good enough staff (especially workshop) are a very rare breed, and high quality young people can earn better money and enjoy better working conditions in other industries. Staff "in it for the love" or not needing the pay come with personal issues meaning that they're not good employees. And then, our best brands started selling DTC and expecting dealer support of product where we'd had no margin. I'm glad to have gotten out of the industry before the Covid boom-and-bust really messed things up - not to mention over-complex and unrelaible product with delays and unrealistic price tags. I'm guessing that there has to be a major retraction, as brands will fail, stores will close, and online sellers won't be able to promote and grow sales like physical stores once could. In the UK, one generation, born circa '65-'75, has propped up the entire high-end business for the last five decades, going through BMX, XC MTB, Road, Gravity MTB, Fat Bikes, Gravel, Electric MTB and Electric Road. When that customer finally hangs up his last pair of wheels, the industry as we have known it is pretty much finished. Less brands, all via the internet, and one man in his garage service providers, is probably the future.
Looking at frame prices recently. Some brands still real proud. $3729 for a boutique carbon trail bike frame. Wonder if the retail price for those ever go down.
The price on a lot of things is out of control, other factors like shipping and excise tax, import fees... then the wages and time in the total manufacture of the frame, not just the person who made it, but others who packaged it, put it in a container or courier van etc etc. I think there's a very simplistic view of what it takes to make some of these products and a lot of arm chair critics who can't see the value. Margin for a retail store needs to be 25 to 30% for them to be in business realistically. Our shop insurance is over $10000PA. where do you reckon the money comes from to pay that, or our mechanics wages going up each year? Advertising cost us over $40k last year. And we're tiny. An ad in our local newspaper is $400/ week. If half these critics had owned a business before, they'd have half a clue what it takes to stay open today. Let alone actually make a living. We certainly ain't making millions as the business owners. Our mechanic makes more than we do at the end of the day.
@@chrisandshellz Great insights. Thank you for sharing. Being a LBS with Specialized or other brands that are getting the heat, sometimes, if not all of the time, they blame the small retailer. I go over this in my video of Are Local Bike Shops $crewed?!?! th-cam.com/video/oO0D3ep5cwQ/w-d-xo.html This is a huge problem, and there is a lot of blame, but where are the solutions? It seems like the industry is going to push most shops out of business or back into the garage like me. I'm a total grassroots garage shop. And that only barely supports only one "me".
Maybe it's just me & if so I apologize, in advance. Granted I'm much older than you but cut out the energy drink(s) just before or during a video. Your mouth is doing 110 mph while my ears/brain are floored and barely hitting 55 ! What I did gleam , ( after some repeated replays), was very informative & thought provoking. Good Luck.
You know a lot about the competitive dynamics of the industry. Good insights, and a welcome divergence from the usual discussion about bike component comparisons. One more dynamic that I observed during Covid, when supplies dried up, is that the Trek-owned dealership -- a half hour away from my local Trek independent shop -- was able to get the bike that I wanted a year (!) ahead of ANY local Trek shop in my area. Instead of keeping a list at the warehouse that any authorized dealer can pick from on a first-come-first-served basis, they clearly gave preference to their own store. I am sure that this will have implications, as well. Maybe they are moving towards all company-owned stores so that they can integrate with a future DTC strategy. Their current website already directs you to local stores and has a free-ship-to-local-store option for components.
Thanks! This new norm is changing by the minute, and it looks like Trek has its foot floored on the gas. Their true colors are showing from the bike manufacturers, and your local bike shop is left scrambling on what to do. If they can't sell to Trek, Specialized, or Pon, the likelihood of them going under in the next 6-12 months is high. This saddens me greatly, and I am looking for any advice to share to help the LBS.
@@IKnowAGuyBicycles I am not sure what the LBS can do. Maybe they need to go into a full service model, like car garages who service vehicles that they didn't sell. I am not sure that they will be able to sell competitive brands at the rate of the top manufacturers, nor compete with the online component suppliers. I do my own research and select the bike and parts I want before going to any store. The worst scenario is that they go by the wayside like the local hardware store. The survival strategy of some of those was to affiliate with a national brand, like Ace, so that they could have purchasing power.
Lbs owner. Non standard size parts are to be avoided. Way to many different bottom brackets, aero seatposts, etc. They don't have to volume to survive and won't be available in the future. Keep it simple and standard.
I picked up 2 bikes. One was in a scrap pile and one was $50. The scrap bike got about $150 in parts and the one that cost $50 just needs tires and tubes, but I plan on buying some upgraded parts. At the end of the day, they are still gonna be Walmart Mongooses, but they will be reliable. That’s all I really was looking for. It beats spending $400 per bike for low end new, plus it keeps them out of the scrap yard.
I contributed to the bike industry this year. On one carbon mtb and one aluminum mtb l am $15k invested. I do have to say l was sticker shocked when l first started looking. If l wouldn't have been somewhat pressured by my friends to bike with them l probably wouldnt have spent the money
Great vid, just found this in the feed. Never seen anyone talking about the more button. Good one! Good to hear the expereince, and future predictions 👌🏻
I remember riding mount Tamalpais in the '70s on our generic old Schwinns, modified with big tires and we called them "Stump Jumpers." I later found out that there was an actual brand name for Stump Jumper and they eventually became Specialized. Cool cheap bikes went out of favor, I guess.
We used to build our own bikes, cobbled together from various bits - and they were the best fun. Today's consumer isn't capable of building even a simple bike. I mean, he or she could probably 3D print it but he or she can't work a Crescent wrench!
I bought a Specialized stump jumper 1984 rode it 15,000 miles, stolen, got the Handel bars back a few years later, bought a Specialized expedition 1983 rode 87,000 miles, still ride it today, will not to day, it’s raining! Bought a 1983 stump jumper to replace 1984 stolen jumper. It’s known to be a collector’s model. 1987 rode my expedition on Australia 200 year Bicentennial Ride the best bike I have. Trek 1220 took over as my work bike almost 40,000 miles to so far, I like it, very nice road bike, rode 40 cross state bike rides, then a Specialized carbon fiber rode bike only 10 cross state bike rides, then a Cannondale ex large mountain bike 1990 rode 13,000 miles pulling a burly trailer. 30 more cross state bike rides. 2001 bought a Cannondale large Mountain bike with disk brakes, added 700 wheels rode, well I’ve lost track of the nine work bikes I’ve used to carry my cameras around the world riding cross state bikes rides as the photographer selling souvenir photographs 347 500 mile cross state bike rides touring 18 countries now I drive a Quatrovelo the fastest bike you’ll ever ride, I mean, ever drive!
They're missing the mark by not putting them into stores next to their new models. A salesperson can help someone more than some bot upsell to complete a new rider's journey.
Snap, we've been doing trades and swaps for last 12 months, really helped get people into a good bike in good nick at a good price. Usually serviced and honest evaluation on suitability and value. That's the trust and value of the LBS. Boom
@@chrisandshellzHave traded in several bikes over the past 10 years. Shop always advertises them for about $1000 more than they paid me for them. Seem like an excessive price increase to me.
Thanks. I think these conversations are needed by consumers and people in the industry alike, regardless of whether they are big or small. Let's see if we get some good talking points going and see if we can start moving the needle. I watched a video over the weekend "why bike mechanics are "A" holes" there was 10 great points shared. Worth the watch. th-cam.com/video/lJxxph5pQEg/w-d-xo.htmlsi=ZrnlktpiBkTQyy9T
Great Video and nice Real Talk. SUBSCRIBED! As for the Bicycle Industry, I think it is more of a market correction than anything. People had money to spend during Covid, and now they don't. Covid helped the bicycle industry to grow exponentially because it got more people into bicycling. Even the "low budget" but serious bicyclist, who never really spent money, were spending like crazy during Covid. Covid was truly a BOOM TIME. However, all booms must crash, and now here we are. It won't be just the Bike Industry that will be crashing, All Industries and Markets will suffer in the next 2-5 years. We have always had economic corrections in the country, so a crash should not be shocking to anyone. The Companies that did NOT plan for the "famine" during the times of "feasting", will all end up starving to death. That is just the way it is. Like you said, bye bye K-Mart, Blockbuster, and Sports Authority. Remember though, it was not even that long ago when the bicycle industry was hurting, in 2019 the Bicycle Industry also was hurting badly due to lack of sales, but Covid came and that was a God Send for the Bicycle Industry. I can't believe anyone in the Bicycle Industry would really believe that the good times would last forever. As for all the comments of high prices, I don't think they are that high at all. I myself always remembered the top end bicycles and parts being overly expensive. In 1999, it cost me $4.5k to build up an Intense Tracer (of course it had the best parts). $4.5k was a lot of money back then! Now a Top Build is about $11k, but we get so much more with that $11k than I got for my $4.5k back then. Now we get stuff like Carbon Frame and Wheels, Dropper Seat-Posts, and really Nice Fox Suspension. Now I will say, a $14k Road Bicycle is a little bit shocking, because Road Bikes are simple devices with no suspension or dropper. I do remember a top end Pinarello Dogma costing $12k in 2015, so in the big picture, a 15% increase over 8 years is really not that big of an increase considering how much worse the devaluation of the dollar is now. For reference, Bacon Prices has gone up 100% in the past 8 years. Another thing shocking to me is the amount of top end bicycles I see at the races or other biking events. I guess more people are just willing to spend more money on bicycles now. In 2002, I always had the best bikes at these events, but now in 2023, there are so much more people with top end bikes, and many even more top flight than my builds. About me: Since the age of 9 (1980), I have always had an interest in bicycles and motorcycles (of all types). I got out of all bicycling in 2002, but got back into it full steam in 2015. Since 2015, I have probably invested about $70k in the Bicycle Industry for parts, accessories, lift tickets, races, parts, clothing, etc, etc. During Covid till now (2020-2023), I bought 4 new higher end bicycles. I currently have 8 bicycles now, all higher end stuff, that are all in great shape (a road bike, gravel bike, a 29er Enduro Bike, a 27.5" Enduro Bike, an E-Bike, an XC bike, and 2 DH Bikes). The Bicycle Industry should send me a THANK YOU LETTER!
Those are such great insights. Thank you for sharing! And thank you for being an avid cyclist and supporting the industry. I'm just one small piece of sand in the cycling industry, but I appreciate you and others like you!
Couldn’t have said it better imo. I worked at a bike shop in Vegas in the late 80s and with some help from my dad pieced together an Olmo road bike. It was expensive back then. I got back into it in 2008 with a $2k Madone. Then in 2020 bought myself a retirement gift (wife was cool with it lol). Got a Emonda SLR9 Di2. I’ve loved every bike I’ve owned including my first Schwinn roadie! It’s true with all the r&d these companies put into the bikes and components affects the cost. My Emonda is a testament to that. Happy riding!
My Specialized Stumpjumper Evo Pro was 8.3k. Dropped to 6.3k. Now I see the leftovers at 5.5k. I paid 6.3k. The only reason I bought the Stumpjumper Evo because it is highly adjustable, and a bunch of aftermarket parts. This is the perfect bike for me but Specialized is so FN expensive. I think it's driven by all the overhead they have, sponsorships, marketing, and high corporate salaries.
I did a SJ Evo Alloy custom build this year with all top line components for under $5k. The frame with Fox Float X shock was $1315 shipped to my door. I waited for sales and bought all the parts at 20-50% off. If you think specialized is expensive just look at Santa Cruz or other companies. The SJ Evo frame was the best deal I could find for a full sus bike.
100% agree, cycling, just to sum it up it seems like it has just become a cash grab. This starts with companies trying to justify 4,500 frames, yeti, bike shops that have no interest in trying to be competitive, what's worse if you walk in one of these, they almost act like it would be a privilege for you to buy something from them at full MSRP. It's like they think there's an endless supply of rich people.
Coming from a mom-and-pop shop, there must be a warm hug. They will have to change the customer service perspectives because fewer customers will support that attitude.
Companies/Brands should take a cue from the auto industry. Offer "certified" used bikes. The American marketing push for bikes to be "extreme" in performance, weight, and tech has priced most people and former riders out of reconnecting with the sport. $3500 buy-in ($7k for a couple) is a hard pill to swallow. There is a gaping hole in the $600-$1500 bike market. It is a gap that drives smaller players to sell direct and cut out the middle man- your LBS. But brands love differentiators, and weight is the one quantifiable marketing point other than color. A dream of a simple yet quality bike brand that FITS one of their tested models to your needs and sends you home with a dependable bike that you can be proud to own, fits you, is serviceable/upgradable.
This is exactly why I'm refurbishing road bikes and have found a huge market for bikes under 1k. Now, if we can get our local LBS to embrace this practice, you could get and keep many more people in this sport.
@@IKnowAGuyBicyclesGood side hustle and you help the community. With good tires, brakes, and decent wheels even 30+ year old bikes will be perfectly capable.
@@IKnowAGuyBicycles Do you think the economics are such that it’s scalable? I have an e-commerce background and I’ve considered rehabbing and selling bikes but the return isn’t really there outside of local sales when you consider freight and selling costs. Though this is with a purely for profit model and without any real economies of scale. A larger scale and well capitalized co-op might be able to pull it off. I’ve also sadly seen several of my favorite online retailers who specialized in high quality used and new old stock bike parts close recently.
I have an sworks enduro 22 model custom, a canyon sender, a canyon spectral-on and a salsa timberjack. My kids have downhill and enduro bikes. Will bike for food.
Bikes for majority of people are considered toys or hobby items. The prices are out of line what the majority of people are going to pay for a hobby/toy. The biggest seller at the shop I work part time at is a cheap ass GT aggressor. These manufacturers need to make good quality entry level bikes to squeeze out walmart and big box junkers out of the bike market.
90s: light bikes, 26" wheels, MTB = everybody could ride trails with casual friends. 2023: MTB = Red Bull Rampage, $5,000/heavy downhill bikes, big gaps. One is more profitable than the other.
Very Interesting - I'm no businessman. I ride my 32 year old Schwinn and have noticed something. Old bikes seem to be a bit simpler. There may be less to break. If Trek sells old bikes in their stores, I think there is a market out there for reconditioned reliable old bikes. The lower price of old bikes may also mean that there may be a higher volume of sales of these less expensive bikes. Perhaps being able to quickly move the used bikes will generate as much revenue as these new expensive bikes. The new expensive bikes may not sell as often. Nothing was said about smaller brands like Quality Bike Products, i.e. Surly et all. They seem to sell niche bikes. How do they fit into the picture? At any rate, this video and others have convinced me to avoid Specialized bicycles. Thanks.
Something happened to the bike industry over the last ten years or so. The prices have skyrocketed and the bikes are essentially the same thing they have been. No real new technology that matters just stupid high prices. I’ve ridden road bikes for 50+ years and I’ve never purchased a brand new bike. There’s no need to do that when you can buy last years model for a fraction of the price. Anyways I don’t feel sorry for these companies at all. Canyon sells a kick ass endurance road bike with disc and Di12 for $4,200. Why on earth would anyone buy the specialized version for $14,000
Quality and Salsa are moving in ..not pushing just offering great bikes - competition for the big companies- it is a different world today but the industry is still rolling along. So much for innovate or die !
Was working for specialized owned retail for over a year, left 5 months ago for a much more stable and better oppurtunity , I was a fulll time service tech and lead for a while at Procycling east in Colorado Springs. It is simple to say my guy we were on a roller coaster ride ,They shuttered the shop a couple weeks after the entire staff moved on due to how obvious it was going south... Great video thanks for the insight ! Never considered the parralels to Schwinn
Thank you for your insights of working at a Specialized Store. Trek had the same issues in the first couple of years. You can say manufacturers had NO idea what and how running a shop is like. And they say "they were the experts" of bicycle retail. Nope, we LBS owners and employees know what works and what doesn't.
Ever heard the saying "win on sunday orders on Mondays" ? Winning anything sells products. Consumers need confidence that their purchase yields a certain value. Its very important for a brand to have market value. Bike companies needs riders to win races, this has a flow-on effect from the international race scene to the local club races. I think it's a shame that GT have pulled out of racing, I sure it will impact in bike sales and will slowly decline the longer they take to put race team together and start landing podiums.
There is a place for teams, don't get me wrong. Well-placed planning can help build the cycling community and your brand through local and professional racers and teams.
You brought back some memories with that Schwinn Home Grown sign on your wall, also companies like KHS and IronHorse came to mind. Miss those 😢. What about companies like Giant?
Yeah, those were the days, right? Giant has had their own issues, but they are also a manufacturer that builds many brands like Trek and Specialized. They are being very quiet about their problems and layoffs.
KHS is alive and well..a great company offering a large selection of bikes...tandems,folding bikes, fatties, road bikes and kids bikes...a company that treats their dealers and employees fairly..
I've owned a lot of bikes in my life but I'm part of the problem. My road bike is a Motobecane TTT aero built in the 70's My tandem is about 20 years old. It has an aluminum frame but came with a lot of steel parts so over the years those have gotten replaced with stuff that won't rust
I'd say rapacious corporate greed is responsible for most or all of these failures. When shareholder value trumps all other aspects of a business, it's doomed.
“About direct consumer sales” First I totally support my local bike shops. I went there first, didn’t have the size bike for my wife. They suggested I call Specialized for direct sales as we needed the for my wife’s first half century in 6 days. Specialized had the bike in stock. But the fastest way to get the bike was to ship it to the local dealer. The time difference was 3 weeks compared to 3 days. So we shipped it to our local shop.
We saw Canondale do this in the 1990’s here in the South. They cut ties with locals & went bigger. Hurt them. That little went Specialized shop, one of the First. It’s crazy.
It's crazy what they are asking for starting prices and what is on them. Just the other day I saw kids' e-bikes from Specialized and just lost it when I saw the price. That much for a year or two of use...Just crazy!
I will only buy used. I bought a 2020 Madone SLR7 for 35% of its sticker price. I'm a Gen X'er and a bike that is over $800 still sends me into shock. That being said, I have spent double that in accessories like shoes, helmets, kits etc.
For a generally lower income country like mine (Philippines), Chinese bikes (Sunspeed, Trinx, Toseek, Mountain Peak) are affordable (can buy _something_ for $200) if you really need/want to bike. Yeahhh they could be questionable especially if they are unknown/unbranded/carbon fiber, although the first two brands I mentioned seem to be decent. Nonetheless, I'd still (and have) get a Giant or Decathlon or something if I can.
Not even half. I bought a trek dual sport in 22. Had to go out of town for like a year. Left my bike home, so i only road it fora total of 10 short rides. The bike is immaculate. They said the would only give me 150 for a practically brand new bike
I wanted to replace my Specialized Rock Hopper. There aren't any Specialized Dealers in my area anymore. There used to be 5 or 6! I refuse to buy a bike I can't test drive (somehow) first. You can't do that without a local bike shop that sells the product. Now I'm exploring other options.
So, I’m hearing that if I want support for a complex “bike” , like an e-bike, I should buy trek? Seems like they can back their battery stuff the best/most? Thanks
If I was going to buy an e-bike right now. I would buy new (hopefully on sale) because of the warranties. Or at least a mainline because of the RD that has been put into them.
The market has shifted. America is more Obese than ever. Fewer people want to pedal a bike. Chinese Electric Bicycles (Ebikes) are taking over the $750 to $3000 bike purchasers. The ones sold in brick and mortar stores are overpriced (for the features they offer). Most importantly, the Chinese are not even pretending to pay attention to class 1, 2, and 3 Ebike categories. They are selling REAL commuter bikes that will get you to work without being sweaty when you get there. They are riding on the wave of "electric transportation". I rode to work Friday, and used less than 5 cents worth of electricity to do it round-trip. This is (obviously) much cheaper than even driving an economy car (or a Tesla) to work. America is getting older too. Fewer children are born to people who were Born in the USA. Electric Bikes (Ebikes) are growing in appeal to an older generation which still wants to get out, but are struggling with Arthritis and joint issues. People with disposable income, are choosing transportation which comes without the sweat and sore joints. And most kids can't afford a "better than Walmart" bike. The market for bike shops has most certainly diminished. I see nothing on the horizon which will improve this. I do see things on the horizon which will make it much worse.
Online v. brick and mortar: how to do enough to survive against the behemoths? Very informative talk here, persuasive points made on carrying a used line to get people in the door and ideally growing that customer over time. And to be an independent shop carrying a major mfg'ers line only to have them go consumer direct- what a punch in the gut that must be. But to be frank, if I was poised to splurge on a new high end bike, I would def (right now) go Canyon. The value is so apparent. You can see why Specialized is scrabbling to emulate and salvage market share, with their retailers getting caught in the middle.
There were 2-3 Specialized independent dealers here in Northern Colorado, and Specialized opened three corporate stores. Granite that the 3 IBD (independent bicycle dealers) stores don't carry a lot of the Specialized brand, but that has to make you think inventory availability may be dedicated to their corporate locations. You can say there is a lot of soap opera here in NOCO.
As an independent local bike shop owner in NZ, we turn away canyon service work. We're independent, carry over 30 brands and the distributors are giving us stock to put in our shop. The online option only serves a small audience in reality, so many other brands have tried to go direct to consumer in other industries and failed. The reason product value is maintained over time is the backup service, and long term value of a product. Canyon don't give a crap, they're just flogging bikes out the door with no cost in relation to after sales service. We see too many people thinking they've got a great deal, but we're their first port of call when it goes bad. I'm sorry but that doesn't keep our lights on, canyon take trusting margin which isn't shared with local bike shops, instead the end customer left with a bike that nobody wants to touch. Certainly I have no incentive to invest in any specialist tools to work on their bikes, why should I? They're literally bypassing my business and making their customers approach me and piss in my pocket when they have a problem when they haven't done a thing to that point to keep our business alive. It's bullshit and bike shops everywhere need to wake up. Send a message back that the LBS don't endorse B2C, it doesn't serve the consumer in the long run, and will lead to the LBS decline, and if nothing else service rates will need to increase where there's no retail margin to buffer issues on new bikes. Everyone wants a deal, but there's no free lunches. Wake up.
Good points and I can see why you would not be a fan of Canyon. I happen to be handy and have my own tools so I would fall outside of your customer base in this regard also, i.e. I would have no need of your service department. It is a harsh reality of our times that a ton of people buy online and avoid brick and mortar and the extra margin charged in order to keep the lights on. Good luck to you.
@@chrisandshellz you are in a minority Imo. What’s going wrong w canyon bikes that don’t go wrong with your 30 other brands? Why wouldn’t you do basic service work? Why would I then come into your shop to buy tires? To buy brake pads? All that stuff I can buy online for 50% off what you charge. If I bring my bike into a shop that didn’t sell me the bike- and they service that bike and are cool- I will stop by on purpose to buy tire seal, the buy energy goo, to buy a new helmet. You are missing out on a lot of sales. My buddies did buy Canyon bikes- they have never had a problem with them. The local guys does service on them with a smile. My friends buy all their overpriced stuff in the shop to support him. Same stuff you can buy online for 50% less.
@DaveEPie you clearly don't see or need a local bike shop to be open in your area then. The commercial reality is that our costs can't be covered by just doing service work. So in theory if ALL bike brands only sold online, and bike shops couldn't sell an actual bike, just do service work, then there would be only 2 outcomes. 1. We'd shut and walk away, no more bike shop for you to buy your tires and tubes at short notice. 2. We could stay open but service rates would increase to a point where we may as well be closed. What one do you want? There's not enough margin in just service work to cover our costs and make a decent business. If the mechanics smile and work on canyon bikes for you and your friends, I'd say they're on wages and don't actually own the business. If they had a clue how bad it was, and their job was in jeopardy letting online take over, they probably wouldn't be smiling. If another brand we don't sell comes in, that's usually sold in a store, of course we service it. But other online bikes other than canyon are shown the door. That customer has made a buying decision that they need to own. They wanted cheap and didn't want us to stay open by buying a bike from a local bike shop in the first place. Why should I smile and be happy for the crumbs that don't put dinner on our table? Canyon are in a lucky position taking discounted retail margin from online shoppers. Perhaps you've never owned a business nor understand what needs to happen to stay open. Maybe bike mechanics and rent aren't that much where you are, but as the business owner paying the bills, I need to sell bikes, make margin to keep the doors open. End of story. Canyon are not on my team.
Sometimes children feel they have overgrown their 20"" or 24" bike and they get an adult sized bike. This small bike is given to a younger child after being fixed up, instead of a parent buying a new bicycle for the smaller child. This is re-cycling which people feel is a very good thing now. The result is fewer new bicycles are sold.
Watching you, I keep wondering if you are pissed?? What's in that can? Nevertheless, lots of what you are saying makes sense. My experience aligns with your comments. Starting in the '80s I purchased a bunch of Specialized bikes in a row. I had a few different StumpJumpers in a row and I loved them. The first was a '90s hardtail. Then, I progressed to dual suspension. I grew with the changes in technology. On the road bike side, I had a beautiful carbon Roubaix that was the same as we watched going around on the Tour de France. Then, when e-bikes came along, I purchased a 2017 S-Works Turbo Levo 6 Fattie. It was excellent; leading edge. You might say I was a loyal customer. That was before the extreme greed began to overtake. Within the next year or so the price of my Levo literally doubled. Yes, they tweaked it with a little new tech. But honestly, where was the added value to justify doubling the price. By 2020 Specialized had totally buggered their own future business by price gouging. People aren't buying new bikes today because Specialized totally burned customers during COVID-19 times. We all got screwed so bad that it still hurts. People don't forget and people certainly won't forgive big corporate for being so damned greedy. If Specialized folds, then it is their own greedy fault.
I'm not mad; I'm just concerned for LBS (local bike shops) and how Specialized and Trek have abandoned them. Bing energy drink (like RedBull) is what's in the can. amzn.to/478zoTg
Had a small shop in a very non cycling California town back in 2000 sold SC, iron horse, mongoose, and harp. specialized wouldn’t even look at our shop. They told me straight up. There’s a shop 48 miles away that sells our products and you’re shop is in it’s sells area. We did ok for 3 years. Bunch of farmers that didn’t ride. Happy Trails Dude.
I'm at an impasse. I bought a Specialized Rockhopper comp 29er a couple of years ago for fitness. I had NO clue what the hell I was doing/buying etc. It was $1,000. I have rode the shit out of my bike and absolutely love biking and have learned a few things along the way. So, I'm looking for an upgrade, right? And the prices are killing me!! I have no clue what to do at this point. Anything considered an "upgrade" from the big brands is crazy!
I did the same thing, bought a Rockhopper sport 2 months back while on vacation here in Romania and EVERYONE here rides bikes so I got a decent deal (geographic arbitrage is awesome) after riding it and killing myself on these steep ass hills I went looking for something a bit lighter/racy and found a 2020 Epic Comp with carbon wheels and in close to perfect condition for $1,000 and the dude even brought it to me. My point is, is to buy used and if you are going on vacation or business tripping in other countries, take a good look at their bike websites/used markets and there's no way that you won't find a bike and pay a fair price for it. I'd never pay 3500 for a new bike but I'll gladly pay 1000 for nearly new/gently used. Be aware of the warranty situation though.
@@gregorypenetrante1272 I think I'm gonna do just that. Still learning what all different parts do and what upgrades I need/want. But that's the plan I think.
Big brands like Specialized, Trek and Giant will be able to weather the storm. The smaller boutique brands don’t have the large bank accounts to survive.
I wrench bikes / motorized bikes independently for over 30 years now - shop trained - Most of my work comes generated word of mouth. I have built a decent clientele. The lion share of the new client bikes I have seen are older bikes that customers have had to the LBS aannd been told "its. not worth fixing' "You need this bike right here" I am the guy with that part for your '69 Schwinn Collegiate etc. People are keeping their bikes these days. Leave the selling to the indi dealer like yourself. As you made mention, buying and selling used is smart. I have re purposed many over the years and the satisfaction is 100. I will take the misfits all day. Give the people what they want! * I support my LBS (independent).
I refurbish about 100-150 bikes a year and do about 100 tune-ups. That's with just little old me cranking from bikes to TH-cam videos. It's tough to do all aspects of a business, but it's my passion, and my 12-hour days don't seem that long.
First to fall is bikes that never added Sram's UDH...Now you can not add the Sram Eagle Transmission system... the ultimate gearing for a bike... currently... Sadly for pinion and you, you have to have a pinon bike frame, too....
My MTB cost more than my motorcycle... I've ride competitively for the last 25 years! What am I suppose to do? I mean it keep me young and fit but, by now it cost a lot...
The new pivot for that new DH bike better shoot sparks or turn you into Super Bruni, but how many sales will a DH rig generate? Average Joe doesn't need one.
I bought a used aluminum frame and built my bike to fit my needs. 29-inch bontrager rims rock shox forks, shimano accessories , all in about 1600. And i got to ride while i upgraded it. My bike is great in the trails. It's a hard tail, but it works fine for me.1600 is a lot cheaper than dumping 3 to 4k all once. Prices today are out-of control. Just like harley davidson lol.
I just spent more money than I ever thought I would on a rod bike and had to fend off the sales guys’ pushing me toward electronic shifting this and carbon everything that. I was told you “need” this and that to ride. I miss the old days of riding my POS bike all day and just having fun.
I’ve been riding Road for 30 years....from my fathers Motobecane Super Mirage...given to me, stripped down, toe strap pedals and a Profile triathlon bar attached (15/16 years old )😁....to my first serious bike, a late 90s I think, 3.0 Criterium frameset Cannondale equippwith Campagnolo Mirage 9 speed (still own it)....to a Fuji Team Super Lite equipped with Chorus 10 speed......I always WANT BIKES🤷🏻♂️....I’m a Bike Nut...it’s IMPLIED....I DO NOT HOWEVER, possess the desire to go into HOCK on a bicycle.....or empty my savings..... I am rebuilding the Cannondale with a 10 speed Campy group and that’s it....the frame is in excellent condition, my weight has never exceeded 142 pounds and I don’t abuse my bikes
I bike a lot and I see that half the riders are on ebikes. All the new riders are on ebikes. If specialized, trek etc want to survive, they need to make an affordable ebike that is around 1 to 2k. Just put a hub motor on a frame and call it a day.
Everything I've heard is that dudebro at Spec has always had it against the LBS's and never wanted middlemen but the world had no alternative until now. Agree on the shop hours. I do 99% of my own maintenance and its usually between 8-12pm. Between 3 wheelsets I'm always buying crap like sealant. If they were open, I'd be in at least once a week.
Your local bike shops will need to work harder on their niche just to compete. It can work, but it just adds to the stress and workload of shop owners. This is a big lesson not solely to drink the cool aid of any brand. Sell the shop environment, not less on the products. You can even in a small shop move your retail hours to grab more customers. By spit shifts or close for mid-day lunch rides. Or just start later in the day example: 12 pm to 8 pm m-f.
This is why sometimes I end up going to REI rather than an LBS. Always thought there was an obvious business opportunity in keeping one body at the till and one in the back with the wrenches just to hold a customer's hand and order whatever part they need. Nothing against REI btw.
In the UK Specialized bought Rutland - who had expanded through acquisition to have quite a few bike shops around the country. Rutland bought 3 stores locally. 2 (both 'station cycles' as they were before, closed over the last couple of years and now the last one (the e-bike specialist, branded Rutland) is closing too. The staff are very annoyed. It's a decent shop that was doing fine, but Specialized having to retrench means they are out of a job. They will find work - there are still plenty of people cycling here and buying bikes, but it's a pity that this sort of consolidation is removing perfectly good bike shops. We still have more than 20 in the town (Cambridge UK) but I do much prefer my bike shops to be _actually_ independent, not just store-fronts for particular brands like Specialized and Giant.
Thank you for your insights from over the pond. Not sure why they are not using Specialized as the name of their stores, Incycle is what they are using here in Colorado. They are not fooling anyone.
Has ever occurred to any of these companies that people stopped buying bikes, components and equipment because they are so expensive and don't justify the price for the average consumer? No wonder they are not selling anything. I worked in a bike shop as a salesperson when things were somewhat decent, but now they are out of their minds. They want to make money from every bolt. I do get that they are businesses, but a lot of potential customers don't have a tree to collect money from. I have an example: A driver on a rear hub of dirt jumper cost almost half of the price of a new rear hub. That is not normal. When I was a kid, biking was dirt cheap, even if you had the pinnacle of technology (for the consumer, not for racing/competitions). Now it's slowly transforming into a niche sport for the rich. There was a joy in riding a bike, that is now gone. Discovering new areas and going further than you could get while being on foot. Now everything is Garmin's, Strava's and showing of who's got the bigger balls by getting the ever-increasing expensive bike. Where is the joy in that?
I live in Mississippi. The average salary for the state is $47,000. If you average the price of all the stumpjumpers on Specialized's website (do we need 12 versions of the stumpjumper?) but the average price is $5562. That is 11% of your pretax income. Bikes are effectively too expensive for most folks.
In most cases, if you work in a shop you still can't afford a bike at ep (employee purchase) pricing...
No, it hasn't occurred to these companies because they think they can still direct the narrative of the market which they have since the 80's. But the market and customers have changed drastically, and they still have no idea on how to handle it. Note: for small shops, this opens a huge hole to fill with customer service and used bikes and parts. If I had a traditional retail store, I would be aggressively looking for used bikes to refurbish (which I do now) but also add a huge number of used parts and accessories to complement the new products I'm selling. Especially for service! Because let's face it, customers are feeling a financial hit on everything else and just don't have the funds for "New".
@@IKnowAGuyBicyclesyes indeed, but that will not stay like this for very long if the manufacturers are going to keep increasing the base price and then the brand itself will up the prices. Sure, it will still be cheaper than the price you can offer to a client, but not considerably. You also have an advantage because you have your own store and set whatever margin you want if it's still economically viable.
@@IKnowAGuyBicycles I do understand that they "rule the show", but how much is really enough? 50000 dollars for one bike? Maybe 100000? It has to stop at some point, and it has to be done by the customer who will refuse to keep buying the newer model, because the last year's model is obsolete in their minds. They took this practice from the smartphone manufacturers, and release "new models" every year without any real improvements, in most cases almost the same frame but with a slightly better group set (if the previous one came with Ultegra, this year will come with Dura Ace.). Same for the mountain bike side of things, just different group set names. Anyway, as I said the customer has to stop following this consumerism trend, because if you take care of a bike, it will be functioning great for a significant number of years. The fact that you provide the secondhand bikes option it's very good. Like you said the "customers are feeling a financial hit and just don't have the funds for New.".
Spent my whole life in the bike industry and retired right before covid after the last 30 years on the wholesale side. I love the bike industry and still help a local shop out part time because its so much fun wrenching bikes. As I look back, things were so much simpler and I feel for the shops that are struggling just to stay in business. The old joke "how do you make a millions dollars in the bike industry", start with 2 million" is so true today. Good luck!
Well said! My dad said the same thing when we had Parker Bikes in the 90s. After all this time, some issues still ring true.
I think that saying applies to many professions!
You know everything's wrong in the mtb industry when motorcycling costs less.
It's not the industries fault, it's the people falling for the marketing willing to pay that was the problem.
Hummm...CF motorcycles. I don't think so ...
14k for a bike is ridiculous. All bike brands are out of hand with these crazy prices.
Right? Back in the 90s, 3k was the top of the line. Now, for road bikes, it's the starting point....
You can get yourself a fully custom bespoke bike for that, why by an off the rack suit?
@@IKnowAGuyBicycles You could get a candy bar for a nickle back in the day too.
14k? Look at road bike prices, specifically Specialized McLaren 20k
@@IKnowAGuyBicycles you can get a Status mtb for 3k.... way better than anything in the 90's or 10 yrs ago. Don't need to spend 10k on a bike to get something good.
Bike prices are just too high! When motor cycles are cheaper than bikes that's a problem! A Specialized SL8 19k a KTM team addition 450 notor cross bike 10k. Go figure?
Make you wonder how many of those 19k bikes are made and if they are even sold at retail. I'm sure the numbers are low. Do they come with a 15-30 year loans?
@@IKnowAGuyBicyclesthe store by me in Michigan had a specialized ebike that was $25,000 no joke 😢
Yup!
Definitely hard to justify!
@@dmcalister4505Hope they like it because at that price they are probably going to keep it!😂
Last year I was saving for a new Trek Slash. When the shop told me the cost, i laughed and left. I went over to the motorcycle dealership and bought a new KLX300, full kit and gear, saddlebags and some other things. I found a used Beta Techno 250 trials moto for 800. I got 2 motos, full safety gear and all of that was still less than the Trek. 30 years and living in Steamboat Spings and the costs pushed me out of pedaling. Ill keep my Giant Anthem. Its a shame these cycling companies pushed me out.
Exactly- same story for me in 2015. Haha
My Camber is collecting dust as I now spend my time on a KLX 250. The Kaw is much more fun.
In Feb. 2023 I bought my Specialized Creo SL Expert Carbon EVO at my LBS for $9750. Took until now to get everything right, but I love that sucker. Out every morning at 6 to 7 am here in Southern Arizona for a hour and a half ride. Use eco mode only. Love the Di2, hydraulic discs and dropper post. Sure it was expensive, so is my Apple stuff. Traded my Lemond Zurich in. Needed the ebike to get up a steep Issaquah hill where my son lives. 87 years old.
At the end of the day is all about the smile on your face right?
That is what they say about ebikes, but I didn't buy it for an easy ride. To get a workout, I use the eco mode, which just makes up for the weight of the bike. @@IKnowAGuyBicycles
At 67 that is so inspiring 😀
Wish it was 67, those were the days. But 87 now, unfortunately. @@Steve-vd8ty 🙋♂
At 71 that is so inspiring 😀
I agree with the used market. When bikes cost like cars, residual value is key. Especially In the e-bike space which is probably where growth remains. As the economy is tight, an e-bike as a car alternative becomes attractive.
Used is going to be key for a lot of LBS to survive.
They've sort of painted themselves into a corner. If the premium-increasing prices are based on higher quality then even if used should hold value and so for customer it becomes "..okay I'll buy a used bike because it's basically as good as new..". If that's untrue and a 4+ year old bike is falling apart then how justify the price for brand new! Other areas of the economy have gotten goofy with prices. Dog breeds that sold for $1,000-$1,200 around 2018-19 now are priced at $2,800-$3,100+ and yeah sure inflation and vet costs have risen but come on. It's like every breeder is looking to see who's the first to lower prices and meanwhile they're going to get "stuck" with a 5-6-7 mo. old "puppy" or lower their prices or cut back on litters. We need a real reset to bring costs-prices back down but everyone's gotten used to their salaries-raises they don't want to go backwards but it's perception mostly. If bread is wheat; flour, water, yeast etc.. then cost to grow the wheat and mill it etc.. should be stable over decades or even decline as farmers, bakers increase productivity yet prices go up just because someone in the mix demands or gets a raise and it shifts everyone else to demand- get a raise to maintain perceived balance. Burgers were $10 and now they're $17+ for same bun, tomato, lettuce that has been same plant that's grown on this planet for centuries..
I went from a trek shop to REI. We stay open later and you’re right…. Sometimes that 730-830 hour is crazy busy!
@@nittygritty7434printing money is the main cause of inflation. If we had the same number if $ in the market the natural state is deflation caused by increase in product through increased efficiency. And of course the big expensive bikes and cars are insane as well.
I'd wager 30% of the bikes I see along my local rail trail systems are E-bike riders , young or old people are buying them.
This was a hoot to listen to, thank you for such an honest, fresh and on point take. Customer focus 👌 plus giving the mechanics time to ride in the morning before starting work is the dream set up. Everyone is happier to work on bikes if they’ve got a ride in beforehand 😄
Absolutely true! The traffic in the morning is so much less and can be offset in evening sales.
Ha, I reckon. We open at 10am 6 days a week for that reason. Everyone has adapted fine.. and we've had our second coffee for the day by then too. 💯
a brilliant and very honest assessment of industry. loved that he didnt tryto hide the beer can.
I'm too old to day drink, that was an energy drink. lol
Came across your channel, and listened and watched...it was like going down memory lane. My brother and I started a bike shop in the early 80's, selling what ever we could the first year. Eventually getting Schwann, trek, cannonade, bianchi, klein, etc. You are so correct, when we opened, we used to sell 300 bikes for kids at Christmas, then , BMX was hot. Soon, mom and dad, started buying bikes for themselves, and another market emerged. Every one came in and said, i want a bike i don't have to bend over to ride, soon the MTB and hybrid arrived. I love bikes and still do, I sold one of our shops in the mid 90's. My brother, ended his bike ownership in 2021, with his best year ever, but he knew it was time to retire. How right he was! I still ride 3 to 4 times a week, and this spring I took a part time job at a bike shop in town, that has 11 other stores. I wanted to work at the shop to get back into the local social scene in bikes, since I had moved 900 miles west. The shop, was very corporate, data driven, computer entry very important, but the folks coming in were looking for the family bikes, or a hybrid, etc. Eventually, although i was selling lots of bikes, I could not master the 9 steps in the computer program of gathering data on the customer, accessories, mechanic schedules, lay a way, special orders, etc, and let the manager end my employment, which after a few months now, makes me happy to not be working. I enjoy mt biking, gravel, and road riding and wrench my friends bikes for free. I've crewed on a couple solo RAAM races, started bike clubs, co-directed many Tris, sponsored a Cat2 team, started a group that wrenched bikes for poor kids, training the children to take apart and rebuild a bike, that they got for free after the session. I remember when i was out on a road ride, in the 80"s, meeting an engineer riding the first Cannondale prototype, we switched bikes, and I rode it before it was on the market. Schwinn home grown, Klein Attitudes, Campagnolo tool set, Bianchi Supperleggera and Eco pista, etc. I'm not a fan of Specialized although I own 4 of their bikes. They have squeezed the dealers, as you mentioned, to get the best margin, you had to buy from all the categories. Specialized screwed us, as dealers, and I'll never forget. They were nothing, in the beginning, no one knew their name or bikes, but the LBS, got behind their bikes and pushed them up the hill to the top. I think they are pushed a little thin, but they will survive. They cut some fat, but they still sponsor 3 pro UCI teams, which I figure must be 90 to 100+ S work bikes per team, plus equipment. Is it worth it, in Europe, yes of course, but here in the US, other than the Tour, hardly any one follows pro cycling.
Keep up the dialogue, Some one i knew is involved on the credit side for a big bike company who says, Specialized is teetering. I hope they do not fall, the consequences for the LBS and the bike industry would be catastrophic. Time will tell. Keep the faith!
There is so much to unpack from this, and thank you for sharing. I, too hope they don't fail, but I know a lot of smaller shops have and will continue to if they don't put support back into their shops that made them what they are today. That includes Trek as well. But you can't tell the big guys anything until their bottom line falls out, and it may be too late. But old guys like us just keep doing what we to because of the passion for cycling now and then. Cheers to you, my friend!
@thomasgallagher1062
I was in the business in the 80s also. We were local to spesh. There was a time they were dealer friendly. The beginning of the end was the tire program. Then the bike program etc. The bike companies wanted to cut risk, I suppose. So everyone did bike programs, which guaranteed pre sold product they didn't have to stock and plan their cash flow from the bikes they forced the dealers to buy.
The arm twisting continued with clothes etc. The goal starting with the tire ads was driving consumers into shops asking for spesh tires. No one really aggressively advertised like that before. My opinion is they really became a marketing company that happened to be in the bike business. I don't think anyone was nearly as sophisticated in the earlier years. The trap has been keeping the hype up year after year. That puts a strain on the shops having to buy more bikes than they could sell, then being stuck when the next years latest and greatest is pushed by the marketing machine. I finally ended up in a position of working for spesh or getting out of the business. I imagine you can figure out what I did.
Man, I have been waiting for someone to say this! We have a great bicycle shop here in my area, I watched them build the Specialized brand for 30 years and then they turned around and stabbed the guy in the back. I was so pissed off for the retailer that I wanted to burn my Specialized bike on line and post it. The guy that owns this bicycle shop cut ties with them because he has great integrity and customer service. Honestly, I hope Specialized does fail, they deserve it. They got lost on whom the important people are.
I remember Mike Sinyard tried to sue a Canadian shop owner over his shop’s name bc it had “Roubaix” in it! I never have nor will give a cent to Specialized.
Who all remembers the green klein always in the background on the Seinfeld show?
One thing that amazed me with business choices during COVID... All of these companies saw a rapid change, people buying bikes, Zwift getting many more subscribers, Peloton getting a ton of subscribers. They all seemed to expect this growth trend was going to continue. It boggles my mind.
I totally saw this coming, it was all over the tea leaves. But they have a really hard time with change especially when it's downward trends. Investors don't like the truth sometimes or they are afraid to just bite the bullet. At this point it seems they really don't know what to do at the moment. There is only so many levers to pull until you are out of business.
@@IKnowAGuyBicycles it’s just crazy to me there is no forward thinking with investors. It always seems so short-sighted. Even looking at the Wahoo situation, it seems like they over reached during the pandemic as well. Decline in support, explosion in products, purchasing RGT and now trashing it.
@@LukeHague Not sure where this will end up, but doesn't look suitable for many companies.
@LukeHague investors don't look at the long-term game like they used to. It's all short term gains and move on to the next hot ticket.
Investors today, sell and buy, steal and cheat like a crack head trying to maintain there habit.
As long as they make quick money they can care less what the long term out come will be for a company. Same with hedge fund firms. They buy and sell fast.
It's about fast money and gains. Slow and steady is a thing of the past. The revenue is simply not there with that model.
Netflix did the same
LBS is the glue that holds everything together… invaluable information. They always give me deals on everything. My LBS has my loyalty for life. I had bad experiences in other bike shops and never went back in ever. Customer service is always the key…. Warren buffet once said nobody remembers years later what they paid for something… they remember how they were treated.
It's all about how you are treated right? Who doesn't like the warm huge like "Cheers" when you walk in?
Exactly. Online option you get a warm cardboard box and a courier ticket. After that, good luck. A long successful business is only about people. Have a guess where canyon are heading. Short term thinking... all our distributors are rejecting warranty issues on individual components on canyon bikes. We charge canyon tax on service now, especially when people are angry at their own poor buying choice after problems with new bikes.
It's so frustrating to see people on a poorly suited and poorly fitted bike purchased online, where there's nothing we can do to help. The customer often doesn't have any funds to change the situation and we sure can't do it for free. Where's canyon in all of this? Phone number on the courier docket or invoice? Sure ain't anyone to see in person. They're not interested in people.
Must be nice. Mine are useless. I no longer feel bad about shopping online
If you're getting deals then you're dealer isn't getting full margin. And full margin is calculated on the amount necessary to keep the dealer in business. 10% discount means no operating profit on that sale. 15% discount is a 5% loss, but hey, you "supported" them and they at least got a sale, right? Most customers won't be as loyal as you, gladly taking the dealer's warm welcome, cup of coffee, valuable info and advice - and then buying cheaper online. The only way to genuinely support a favourite dealer is to pay full RRP and go nowhere else to buy, like we all used to before the internet, but no customers actually do that now. Something has to give. Your dealer has your loyalty only for as long as he's still in business.
Hi David point taken, I did not say it was on a full build bike off the website. This was a frame up build and they supplied all the parts at some what of a discount or perceived discount. The parts were taken from other builds when customer did not want the stock parts. The bike shop offers them some sort of deal for the unused parts and they sell them to someone else for a profit. I have them build at least 5 bikes per year and pay for all service and buy lots of equipment from the shop as well as sending everyone I know into the shop. Most people want to feel like they are getting some sort of deal and form a relationship with the shop. When your
Can't charge a frame for 4-5000. never made any sense when all of them are made in taiwan for a fraction of the price.
If I owned a shop my hours would be 11am to 8pm (most ppl eat at noon and 5pm) but secure 24hr drop off using bike lockers would be interesting.
That would cover most the customer traffic.
If you google "supply chain bullwhip effect" it pretty much lays out the exact situation that we all just witnessed play out in a lot of industries. Bikes just happened to have an extreme case of it.
3:27 and Eastman Kodak. In the 1970s they were on top of the world but eventually went to zero. It was unfathomable. Imagine the iPhone becoming obsolete and Apple going bankrupt and disappearing as a modern analogy.
And the scary thing is it's very possible😮
Mountain bikes are out of control , one of the main issues is that the sport has evolved into skiing where people go to bike park resorts every weekend as it's typically people in the upper-class that can afford to do so . Bike manufacturers know this as they jacked up the prices over the past 10 years as people making 150k+ a year can easily afford an $5-10k bike. Residing in NH , during the warmer months there's a line of vehicles heading North from Massachusetts every weekend , many carrying suspension bikes to the Bike/SKI resorts in the White Mountains as they use the ski lifts . Not me , as I'm still bombing through the various trail systems in my area as I enjoy climbing uphill on my old ass bikes.
Specialized started off building bikes to purpose but ended up building to price point like everyone else was doing. When I first started riding pro bikes you just bought a frame and fork set and chose what components you wanted. The market is vastly different now.
It's crazy to see how things have changed since the 90's. And yes, the landscape has changed a lot in the last couple of years, and we are in a new norm. We will never see the market like it was, and I'm still not sure where it will land. But I do know there are still a lot of shop owners and employees who have a high level of interest in going and growing their cycling community.
You have to go back to the late sixties to find when they sold frame and fork sets. You can still buy frame and fork sets today but it is less than one percent of the market now.@@IKnowAGuyBicycles
@@IKnowAGuyBicyclesgrowth was exactly what put us in this situation, we need less people riding, not more. Specially when the demographic MTB is attracting is middle aged men with way too much disposable income for bikes but not enough for real middle aged men hobbies (young hot women, sports cars, golf, polo and the like). MTB used to be a sport based on strength/endurance (that weeds off most people) and it now is gravity dominated with all kinds of rider aids. Manufacturers know this and catered prices to that. Bottom line: all cyclists suffer the consequences.
Specialized never built bikes. The official company name remains Specialized Bicycle Components. They started out as an importer and distributor of European cycle components to address the 1970s bike boom. Developing "own-branded" components made in Japan came next, and then complete bikes made in Japan, then Taiwan. Spesh got to owing its main bike vendor, Merida, a huge amount of money. As a result, Merida now owns 49% of Specialized. The only bikes Spesh ever actually made were a few development prototypes.
@@davidpalk5010did not know Merida was that invested. Thanks for this
Pretty simple: specialized wants $15k for a bike. You can get an evil for $8k or a diamond back for $6k. I just fompared the top of the line for all 3. The issue is specialized was testing the elasticity of demand and they got greedy.
Another thing i noticed is that parts availability never did recover ftom covid. This is not an accident. Manufacturers realized they could make more money by scaling production back, creating artificial demand, and raising prices. This is capitalism and this us why capitalism is not good.
30:55 Here in Las Vegas I've never once seen any used bikes in a bike shop anywhere in town, only new bikes. I like your philosophy that. Nice to give a new rider a choice by having new and used bikes to choose from. It's a win-win situation!
That's crazy there is no one selling used bikes in a bike shop.
@@IKnowAGuyBicycles Yeah Craigslist or eBay is generally how you acquire a used bike here.
Got my 2023 Specialized Turbo Levo Carbon for $3500. Cant believe I got it so cheap. Was told 5k was the lowest and was able to get $3500
Yeah, they are dumping prices!
@@IKnowAGuyBicycles I honestly dont think they will ever go lower than that
I have a 2000 Stumpjumper and a Salsa Timberjack. They are both simple and rip. The Stumpjumper is lighter than any of the new hardtails (minus all the schmo tech) and makes the local moderate trails near me a blast. Lived in Colorado Springs years ago and ripped around on an SE Stout 29er single speed with rim brakes. Made the trails a real challenge but increased my tech skill 10x. Road bike is a 1980's Fuji club (red/yellow looking like Ronald McD) with some new age wheels and SRAM components off a totaled Madone. Keeps up with snobs on 10K bikes all day and doesn't require a wifi connection.
There is a lot of good choices out there for. used that blow the doors off of new.
I still have a 2001…I think Stumpjumper Pro…paid $1,100 at the end of the season…or it was a Specialized mark-down sale…USA made frame in black red and silver with a Manitou fork w/lockout…one step below the Carbon “bridge” Mars…..XT/XTR group set…🥰….never selling it
Which bikes require a WiFi connection?
i know ive said it before but again, i really enjoy these straight shoot em talks about the business.
It's nice to be able to say it how it is and not be influenced or worried about the outcome when working in a shop with these brands. Without having any contracts with any of these companies I'm truly independent. And just say it how I see it. Thanks for watching!
Back in the 90s I managed bike shops for a well known national chain (P……….). To make my managers annual bonus we had to meet several sales goals. I almost choked when I learned we had to sell 1,100 bikes for the year. We did it. ( I had a fantastic team ).
Bike manufacturers are going through the same market realisation as the car yards in the US are currently going through. They could get away with high prices but now they can't and all the unsold inventory proves it.
Did you seriously say that bicycle magazine reviews resonate more with consumers? They’re one of the most corrupt parts of the industry.
No, customer reviews have more validation. The pole I posted showed that they sway some people.
Please "Like" and also " Share" to keep the conversation going. Also, The Drink I have in this video is a Bing Energy Drink, and I'm completely sober in all my videos. If you think I'm slurring my words, maybe it's from having a stroke over our industry being upside down. Or lack of sleep from my children. (or Both) In any case, that's just how I speak, so be kind. More insights from my perspective with 30 years of experience in the cycling Industry in the playlist: th-cam.com/play/PLdfUXv0-z1u42bZpCLWmT2VtNW-7AIf2A.html
This is really great to watch. Every bike company executive should be forced to sit down and watch this. Who’s buying $5k to $10k bicycles?? Would they not do better selling five $1000 bicycles vs. that one $5k bike? (With five times the service opportunities) Thinking about someone whose kids are older, now they can afford a new ride, and have the spare time for it, walk into a dealership and see a bike for $5000. They turn around and walk right back out. Or, see a $7500 bike on “sale” for $6200 🤣 It’s going to be interesting.
We will see how this all plays out. I would bet lower-cost bikes are coming. That's if they were smart. Plus, focusing on better customer relations is much needed as well.
The difference that will make or break LBS is customer service/experience. I know shops that won’t even touch a bike they didn’t sell or stock. The service department is where the future money is. Retrofitting older models, assembling DTC brands, fitting, servicing suspension, and even offering used bicycles are revenue streams LBS can control
That is very true, and the pinch is you have to have enough volume to support a liveable wage for good, experienced employees. If you don't have that volume, you will start scaling down to my shop size. One man band in his garage. (which is awesome, by the way) but thats me at my stage of the game.
Yep volume is key, wages are only increasing, consumables increasing, red tape, insurance etc. We're in our 3rd year as start up LBS, service revenue is approx 10% of our total game at this stage still. Selling bikes with reasonable margin is key to keeping the lights on, but also hopefully getting that future service work ongoing. There's no guarantee there though, we have loads of bikes coming through sold from other stores. Probably the majority of our service work isn't bikes we've sold if I'm objective. Our customers are older, doing less riding, needing less service. Might be different if they were all mountain biking and breaking stuff every day.
In the UK, pre-2011 was great in the cycle trade. Smartphones happened in 2011 and that introduced "price-shagging" where even friends of the store would dictate what they were prepared to pay. Barcode scanning and showrooming became commonplace. Saturdays became no different to Wednesdays. Customer loyalty is a myth, and quality of service counts for little. RRP went out of the window when the customer got the internet in his hand. Shimano was being retailed online at less than cost to stores, and the distributor had no answer to this. When auditing our business properly we found that our very high quality service department couldn't possibly turn a profit and was always subsidised by sales. Good enough staff (especially workshop) are a very rare breed, and high quality young people can earn better money and enjoy better working conditions in other industries. Staff "in it for the love" or not needing the pay come with personal issues meaning that they're not good employees. And then, our best brands started selling DTC and expecting dealer support of product where we'd had no margin. I'm glad to have gotten out of the industry before the Covid boom-and-bust really messed things up - not to mention over-complex and unrelaible product with delays and unrealistic price tags. I'm guessing that there has to be a major retraction, as brands will fail, stores will close, and online sellers won't be able to promote and grow sales like physical stores once could. In the UK, one generation, born circa '65-'75, has propped up the entire high-end business for the last five decades, going through BMX, XC MTB, Road, Gravity MTB, Fat Bikes, Gravel, Electric MTB and Electric Road. When that customer finally hangs up his last pair of wheels, the industry as we have known it is pretty much finished. Less brands, all via the internet, and one man in his garage service providers, is probably the future.
Looking at frame prices recently. Some brands still real proud. $3729 for a boutique carbon trail bike frame. Wonder if the retail price for those ever go down.
Pricing and production are totally missing the mark in our current market.
The price on a lot of things is out of control, other factors like shipping and excise tax, import fees... then the wages and time in the total manufacture of the frame, not just the person who made it, but others who packaged it, put it in a container or courier van etc etc. I think there's a very simplistic view of what it takes to make some of these products and a lot of arm chair critics who can't see the value. Margin for a retail store needs to be 25 to 30% for them to be in business realistically. Our shop insurance is over $10000PA. where do you reckon the money comes from to pay that, or our mechanics wages going up each year? Advertising cost us over $40k last year. And we're tiny. An ad in our local newspaper is $400/ week. If half these critics had owned a business before, they'd have half a clue what it takes to stay open today. Let alone actually make a living. We certainly ain't making millions as the business owners. Our mechanic makes more than we do at the end of the day.
@@chrisandshellz Great insights. Thank you for sharing. Being a LBS with Specialized or other brands that are getting the heat, sometimes, if not all of the time, they blame the small retailer. I go over this in my video of Are Local Bike Shops $crewed?!?! th-cam.com/video/oO0D3ep5cwQ/w-d-xo.html This is a huge problem, and there is a lot of blame, but where are the solutions? It seems like the industry is going to push most shops out of business or back into the garage like me. I'm a total grassroots garage shop. And that only barely supports only one "me".
Maybe it's just me & if so I apologize, in advance. Granted I'm much older than you but cut out the energy drink(s) just before or during a video. Your mouth is doing 110 mph while my ears/brain are floored and barely hitting 55 ! What I did gleam , ( after some repeated replays), was very informative & thought provoking. Good Luck.
Yeah, I have cut those out and now go off a script. Not my best work, but always trying to improve my videos and working on bikes.
You know a lot about the competitive dynamics of the industry. Good insights, and a welcome divergence from the usual discussion about bike component comparisons.
One more dynamic that I observed during Covid, when supplies dried up, is that the Trek-owned dealership -- a half hour away from my local Trek independent shop -- was able to get the bike that I wanted a year (!) ahead of ANY local Trek shop in my area.
Instead of keeping a list at the warehouse that any authorized dealer can pick from on a first-come-first-served basis, they clearly gave preference to their own store. I am sure that this will have implications, as well.
Maybe they are moving towards all company-owned stores so that they can integrate with a future DTC strategy. Their current website already directs you to local stores and has a free-ship-to-local-store option for components.
Thanks! This new norm is changing by the minute, and it looks like Trek has its foot floored on the gas. Their true colors are showing from the bike manufacturers, and your local bike shop is left scrambling on what to do. If they can't sell to Trek, Specialized, or Pon, the likelihood of them going under in the next 6-12 months is high. This saddens me greatly, and I am looking for any advice to share to help the LBS.
@@IKnowAGuyBicycles I am not sure what the LBS can do. Maybe they need to go into a full service model, like car garages who service vehicles that they didn't sell.
I am not sure that they will be able to sell competitive brands at the rate of the top manufacturers, nor compete with the online component suppliers. I do my own research and select the bike and parts I want before going to any store.
The worst scenario is that they go by the wayside like the local hardware store. The survival strategy of some of those was to affiliate with a national brand, like Ace, so that they could have purchasing power.
Mid tier trek madone with ultegra in 2012 was 1800 pounds. Same bike now is 6000. Nowhere near inflation.
Seems to be the case.
Lbs owner. Non standard size parts are to be avoided. Way to many different bottom brackets, aero seatposts, etc. They don't have to volume to survive and won't be available in the future. Keep it simple and standard.
My friend bought a 29 " stump jumper , was so heavy and cheap group set , rear hanger broke on first trip scraping rear stay !
I picked up 2 bikes. One was in a scrap pile and one was $50. The scrap bike got about $150 in parts and the one that cost $50 just needs tires and tubes, but I plan on buying some upgraded parts. At the end of the day, they are still gonna be Walmart Mongooses, but they will be reliable. That’s all I really was looking for. It beats spending $400 per bike for low end new, plus it keeps them out of the scrap yard.
Sometimes that is a good direction to go.
I contributed to the bike industry this year. On one carbon mtb and one aluminum mtb l am $15k invested. I do have to say l was sticker shocked when l first started looking. If l wouldn't have been somewhat pressured by my friends to bike with them l probably wouldnt have spent the money
Or maybe have looked into the used market, some are still high priced but still, some great bikes are being refurbished/upcycled.
How much?!!! Get different friends...
Great vid, just found this in the feed. Never seen anyone talking about the more button. Good one! Good to hear the expereince, and future predictions 👌🏻
Glad you enjoyed it!
Appreciate the authenticity and truth telling.
I remember riding mount Tamalpais in the '70s on our generic old Schwinns, modified with big tires and we called them "Stump Jumpers." I later found out that there was an actual brand name for Stump Jumper and they eventually became Specialized. Cool cheap bikes went out of favor, I guess.
There are a few bike companies that have still a cool vibe. Like Salsa, Kona, Yeti, and others. To bring back those early days fun.
We used to build our own bikes, cobbled together from various bits - and they were the best fun. Today's consumer isn't capable of building even a simple bike. I mean, he or she could probably 3D print it but he or she can't work a Crescent wrench!
I bought a Specialized stump jumper 1984 rode it 15,000 miles, stolen, got the Handel bars back a few years later, bought a Specialized expedition 1983 rode 87,000 miles, still ride it today, will not to day, it’s raining! Bought a 1983 stump jumper to replace 1984 stolen jumper. It’s known to be a collector’s model. 1987 rode my expedition on Australia 200 year Bicentennial Ride the best bike I have. Trek 1220 took over as my work bike almost 40,000 miles to so far, I like it, very nice road bike, rode 40 cross state bike rides, then a Specialized carbon fiber rode bike only 10 cross state bike rides, then a Cannondale ex large mountain bike 1990 rode 13,000 miles pulling a burly trailer. 30 more cross state bike rides. 2001 bought a Cannondale large Mountain bike with disk brakes, added 700 wheels rode, well I’ve lost track of the nine work bikes I’ve used to carry my cameras around the world riding cross state bikes rides as the photographer selling souvenir photographs 347 500 mile cross state bike rides touring 18 countries now I drive a Quatrovelo the fastest bike you’ll ever ride, I mean, ever drive!
Love the shirt. Buying it for my friend who broke his collarbone and the first thing he said was his bike is fine.
When I wear it around, I get a lot of comments. Thanks for the support!
Your so right about the red barn situation, I would love to be able to put my hands on nice used bikes.
They're missing the mark by not putting them into stores next to their new models. A salesperson can help someone more than some bot upsell to complete a new rider's journey.
Snap, we've been doing trades and swaps for last 12 months, really helped get people into a good bike in good nick at a good price. Usually serviced and honest evaluation on suitability and value. That's the trust and value of the LBS. Boom
@@chrisandshellzHave traded in several bikes over the past 10 years. Shop always advertises them for about $1000 more than they paid me for them. Seem like an excessive price increase to me.
Bikes are overpriced simples , the manufactures-milked it during Covid and thought it would go on forever.
They deserve everything coming
thank you for sharing your knowledgeand your honest opinion
Thanks. I think these conversations are needed by consumers and people in the industry alike, regardless of whether they are big or small. Let's see if we get some good talking points going and see if we can start moving the needle. I watched a video over the weekend "why bike mechanics are "A" holes" there was 10 great points shared. Worth the watch. th-cam.com/video/lJxxph5pQEg/w-d-xo.htmlsi=ZrnlktpiBkTQyy9T
Great Video and nice Real Talk. SUBSCRIBED!
As for the Bicycle Industry, I think it is more of a market correction than anything. People had money to spend during Covid, and now they don't. Covid helped the bicycle industry to grow exponentially because it got more people into bicycling. Even the "low budget" but serious bicyclist, who never really spent money, were spending like crazy during Covid. Covid was truly a BOOM TIME. However, all booms must crash, and now here we are. It won't be just the Bike Industry that will be crashing, All Industries and Markets will suffer in the next 2-5 years. We have always had economic corrections in the country, so a crash should not be shocking to anyone. The Companies that did NOT plan for the "famine" during the times of "feasting", will all end up starving to death. That is just the way it is. Like you said, bye bye K-Mart, Blockbuster, and Sports Authority.
Remember though, it was not even that long ago when the bicycle industry was hurting, in 2019 the Bicycle Industry also was hurting badly due to lack of sales, but Covid came and that was a God Send for the Bicycle Industry. I can't believe anyone in the Bicycle Industry would really believe that the good times would last forever.
As for all the comments of high prices, I don't think they are that high at all. I myself always remembered the top end bicycles and parts being overly expensive. In 1999, it cost me $4.5k to build up an Intense Tracer (of course it had the best parts). $4.5k was a lot of money back then! Now a Top Build is about $11k, but we get so much more with that $11k than I got for my $4.5k back then. Now we get stuff like Carbon Frame and Wheels, Dropper Seat-Posts, and really Nice Fox Suspension. Now I will say, a $14k Road Bicycle is a little bit shocking, because Road Bikes are simple devices with no suspension or dropper.
I do remember a top end Pinarello Dogma costing $12k in 2015, so in the big picture, a 15% increase over 8 years is really not that big of an increase considering how much worse the devaluation of the dollar is now. For reference, Bacon Prices has gone up 100% in the past 8 years.
Another thing shocking to me is the amount of top end bicycles I see at the races or other biking events. I guess more people are just willing to spend more money on bicycles now. In 2002, I always had the best bikes at these events, but now in 2023, there are so much more people with top end bikes, and many even more top flight than my builds.
About me: Since the age of 9 (1980), I have always had an interest in bicycles and motorcycles (of all types). I got out of all bicycling in 2002, but got back into it full steam in 2015. Since 2015, I have probably invested about $70k in the Bicycle Industry for parts, accessories, lift tickets, races, parts, clothing, etc, etc. During Covid till now (2020-2023), I bought 4 new higher end bicycles. I currently have 8 bicycles now, all higher end stuff, that are all in great shape (a road bike, gravel bike, a 29er Enduro Bike, a 27.5" Enduro Bike, an E-Bike, an XC bike, and 2 DH Bikes). The Bicycle Industry should send me a THANK YOU LETTER!
Those are such great insights. Thank you for sharing! And thank you for being an avid cyclist and supporting the industry. I'm just one small piece of sand in the cycling industry, but I appreciate you and others like you!
Couldn’t have said it better imo. I worked at a bike shop in Vegas in the late 80s and with some help from my dad pieced together an Olmo road bike. It was expensive back then. I got back into it in 2008 with a $2k Madone. Then in 2020 bought myself a retirement gift (wife was cool with it lol). Got a Emonda SLR9 Di2. I’ve loved every bike I’ve owned including my first Schwinn roadie! It’s true with all the r&d these companies put into the bikes and components affects the cost. My Emonda is a testament to that. Happy riding!
My Specialized Stumpjumper Evo Pro was 8.3k. Dropped to 6.3k. Now I see the leftovers at 5.5k.
I paid 6.3k. The only reason I bought the Stumpjumper Evo because it is highly adjustable, and a bunch of aftermarket parts.
This is the perfect bike for me but Specialized is so FN expensive. I think it's driven by all the overhead they have, sponsorships, marketing, and high corporate salaries.
There is a lot of operational cost to these bike brands, but it doesn't seem they are looking for entry-level products, just high-end and fancy.
I did a SJ Evo Alloy custom build this year with all top line components for under $5k. The frame with Fox Float X shock was $1315 shipped to my door. I waited for sales and bought all the parts at 20-50% off. If you think specialized is expensive just look at Santa Cruz or other companies. The SJ Evo frame was the best deal I could find for a full sus bike.
100% agree, cycling, just to sum it up it seems like it has just become a cash grab. This starts with companies trying to justify 4,500 frames, yeti, bike shops that have no interest in trying to be competitive, what's worse if you walk in one of these, they almost act like it would be a privilege for you to buy something from them at full MSRP. It's like they think there's an endless supply of rich people.
Coming from a mom-and-pop shop, there must be a warm hug. They will have to change the customer service perspectives because fewer customers will support that attitude.
Companies/Brands should take a cue from the auto industry. Offer "certified" used bikes. The American marketing push for bikes to be "extreme" in performance, weight, and tech has priced most people and former riders out of reconnecting with the sport. $3500 buy-in ($7k for a couple) is a hard pill to swallow. There is a gaping hole in the $600-$1500 bike market. It is a gap that drives smaller players to sell direct and cut out the middle man- your LBS. But brands love differentiators, and weight is the one quantifiable marketing point other than color. A dream of a simple yet quality bike brand that FITS one of their tested models to your needs and sends you home with a dependable bike that you can be proud to own, fits you, is serviceable/upgradable.
This is exactly why I'm refurbishing road bikes and have found a huge market for bikes under 1k. Now, if we can get our local LBS to embrace this practice, you could get and keep many more people in this sport.
@@IKnowAGuyBicyclesGood side hustle and you help the community. With good tires, brakes, and decent wheels even 30+ year old bikes will be perfectly capable.
@@chadwells7562 There is a huge need for others like me to fill the gap. Calling all former bike mechanics!
@@IKnowAGuyBicycles Do you think the economics are such that it’s scalable? I have an e-commerce background and I’ve considered rehabbing and selling bikes but the return isn’t really there outside of local sales when you consider freight and selling costs. Though this is with a purely for profit model and without any real economies of scale. A larger scale and well capitalized co-op might be able to pull it off.
I’ve also sadly seen several of my favorite online retailers who specialized in high quality used and new old stock bike parts close recently.
I have an sworks enduro 22 model custom, a canyon sender, a canyon spectral-on and a salsa timberjack. My kids have downhill and enduro bikes. Will bike for food.
Most of my rides end at a food truck or restaurant.
Bikes for majority of people are considered toys or hobby items. The prices are out of line what the majority of people are going to pay for a hobby/toy. The biggest seller at the shop I work part time at is a cheap ass GT aggressor. These manufacturers need to make good quality entry level bikes to squeeze out walmart and big box junkers out of the bike market.
90s: light bikes, 26" wheels, MTB = everybody could ride trails with casual friends.
2023: MTB = Red Bull Rampage, $5,000/heavy downhill bikes, big gaps.
One is more profitable than the other.
Very Interesting - I'm no businessman. I ride my 32 year old Schwinn and have noticed something. Old bikes seem to be a bit simpler. There may be less to break. If Trek sells old bikes in their stores, I think there is a market out there for reconditioned reliable old bikes. The lower price of old bikes may also mean that there may be a higher volume of sales of these less expensive bikes. Perhaps being able to quickly move the used bikes will generate as much revenue as these new expensive bikes. The new expensive bikes may not sell as often. Nothing was said about smaller brands like Quality Bike Products, i.e. Surly et all. They seem to sell niche bikes. How do they fit into the picture? At any rate, this video and others have convinced me to avoid Specialized bicycles. Thanks.
Specialized and Trek have really pushed a lot of people to the used market. I'm sure you will see more refurbished bikes in our local bike shops soon.
Something happened to the bike industry over the last ten years or so. The prices have skyrocketed and the bikes are essentially the same thing they have been. No real new technology that matters just stupid high prices. I’ve ridden road bikes for 50+ years and I’ve never purchased a brand new bike. There’s no need to do that when you can buy last years model for a fraction of the price. Anyways I don’t feel sorry for these companies at all. Canyon sells a kick ass endurance road bike with disc and Di12 for $4,200. Why on earth would anyone buy the specialized version for $14,000
I thought the introduction of Canyon would lower prices, but Trek and Specialized are doubling down on their price points and models.
Quality and Salsa are moving in ..not pushing just offering great bikes - competition for the big companies- it is a different world today but the industry is still rolling along. So much for innovate or die !
Bought my 1st clipless look pedals from qbp in 1985 lol.
Was working for specialized owned retail for over a year, left 5 months ago for a much more stable and better oppurtunity , I was a fulll time service tech and lead for a while at Procycling east in Colorado Springs. It is simple to say my guy we were on a roller coaster ride ,They shuttered the shop a couple weeks after the entire staff moved on due to how obvious it was going south... Great video thanks for the insight ! Never considered the parralels to Schwinn
Thank you for your insights of working at a Specialized Store. Trek had the same issues in the first couple of years. You can say manufacturers had NO idea what and how running a shop is like. And they say "they were the experts" of bicycle retail. Nope, we LBS owners and employees know what works and what doesn't.
Ever heard the saying "win on sunday orders on Mondays" ? Winning anything sells products. Consumers need confidence that their purchase yields a certain value. Its very important for a brand to have market value. Bike companies needs riders to win races, this has a flow-on effect from the international race scene to the local club races. I think it's a shame that GT have pulled out of racing, I sure it will impact in bike sales and will slowly decline the longer they take to put race team together and start landing podiums.
There is a place for teams, don't get me wrong. Well-placed planning can help build the cycling community and your brand through local and professional racers and teams.
You brought back some memories with that Schwinn Home Grown sign on your wall, also companies like KHS and IronHorse came to mind. Miss those 😢. What about companies like Giant?
Yeah, those were the days, right? Giant has had their own issues, but they are also a manufacturer that builds many brands like Trek and Specialized. They are being very quiet about their problems and layoffs.
KHS is alive and well..a great company offering a large selection of bikes...tandems,folding bikes, fatties, road bikes and kids bikes...a company that treats their dealers and employees fairly..
I loved seeing that Homegrown sign too! I had a red homegrown hardtail, it was such a great bike!
Had a Rocket 88
I wouldn’t want to be bringing my “straight” to customer bike to my local shop for service....I want to support that shop every way I can
Support your local LBS, you may pay a little more but they will pay you back double in customer service.
I've owned a lot of bikes in my life but I'm part of the problem.
My road bike is a Motobecane TTT aero built in the 70's
My tandem is about 20 years old. It has an aluminum frame but came with a lot of steel parts so over the years those have gotten replaced with stuff that won't rust
Off topic but when you mentioned schwinn my mind went immediately back to when I owned my Paramount. It was an incredible frame.
They did have some really cool bikes, homegrown's were my fav.
I'd say rapacious corporate greed is responsible for most or all of these failures. When shareholder value trumps all other aspects of a business, it's doomed.
We will see if Specialized will change after a few years of running retail stores like Trek has stepped up their service departments and used bikes.
“About direct consumer sales”
First I totally support my local bike shops. I went there first, didn’t have the size bike for my wife. They suggested I call Specialized for direct sales as we needed the for my wife’s first half century in 6 days.
Specialized had the bike in stock. But the fastest way to get the bike was to ship it to the local dealer. The time difference was 3 weeks compared to 3 days. So we shipped it to our local shop.
We saw Canondale do this in the 1990’s here in the South. They cut ties with locals & went bigger. Hurt them. That little went Specialized shop, one of the First. It’s crazy.
I think it's going to get a whole lot crazier.
bikes just became too expensive...
It's crazy what they are asking for starting prices and what is on them. Just the other day I saw kids' e-bikes from Specialized and just lost it when I saw the price. That much for a year or two of use...Just crazy!
Dude thank you for explaining and info... I'm still listening cooking lunch. Beautiful today in Orlando FL.. later bro, appreciate it
Of course, hope it's nice enough to get a ride in!
Your exaggerated kabuki theater gestures in your opening segment gave me a good laugh and relieved my anxiety over these big questions.
I am glad my overacting helped.
I will only buy used. I bought a 2020 Madone SLR7 for 35% of its sticker price. I'm a Gen X'er and a bike that is over $800 still sends me into shock. That being said, I have spent double that in accessories like shoes, helmets, kits etc.
For a generally lower income country like mine (Philippines), Chinese bikes (Sunspeed, Trinx, Toseek, Mountain Peak) are affordable (can buy _something_ for $200) if you really need/want to bike. Yeahhh they could be questionable especially if they are unknown/unbranded/carbon fiber, although the first two brands I mentioned seem to be decent.
Nonetheless, I'd still (and have) get a Giant or Decathlon or something if I can.
Good to know, thank you for sharing.
Not even half. I bought a trek dual sport in 22. Had to go out of town for like a year. Left my bike home, so i only road it fora total of 10 short rides. The bike is immaculate. They said the would only give me 150 for a practically brand new bike
Prices on used just have dropped, but it will adjust itself and new prices may come down. But we'll see.
I wanted to replace my Specialized Rock Hopper. There aren't any Specialized Dealers in my area anymore. There used to be 5 or 6! I refuse to buy a bike I can't test drive (somehow) first. You can't do that without a local bike shop that sells the product. Now I'm exploring other options.
So, I’m hearing that if I want support for a complex “bike” , like an e-bike, I should buy trek?
Seems like they can back their battery stuff the best/most? Thanks
If I was going to buy an e-bike right now. I would buy new (hopefully on sale) because of the warranties. Or at least a mainline because of the RD that has been put into them.
Oh so you are Parker Brothers, respect, I ordered (1990ish)a ton from you guys, no problems ever.
I started at Parker Bikes in Parker Colorado. My parents open the shop in 1987.
The market has shifted. America is more Obese than ever. Fewer people want to pedal a bike.
Chinese Electric Bicycles (Ebikes) are taking over the $750 to $3000 bike purchasers. The ones sold in brick and
mortar stores are overpriced (for the features they offer).
Most importantly, the Chinese are not even pretending to pay attention to class 1, 2, and 3 Ebike categories.
They are selling REAL commuter bikes that will get you to work without being sweaty when you get there.
They are riding on the wave of "electric transportation". I rode to work Friday, and used less than 5 cents worth
of electricity to do it round-trip. This is (obviously) much cheaper than even driving an economy car (or a Tesla)
to work.
America is getting older too. Fewer children are born to people who were Born in the USA.
Electric Bikes (Ebikes) are growing in appeal to an older generation which still wants to get out,
but are struggling with Arthritis and joint issues.
People with disposable income, are choosing transportation which comes without the sweat and
sore joints.
And most kids can't afford a "better than Walmart" bike. The market for bike shops has most certainly diminished.
I see nothing on the horizon which will improve this. I do see things on the horizon which will make it much worse.
You have some good points.
Online v. brick and mortar: how to do enough to survive against the behemoths? Very informative talk here, persuasive points made on carrying a used line to get people in the door and ideally growing that customer over time. And to be an independent shop carrying a major mfg'ers line only to have them go consumer direct- what a punch in the gut that must be. But to be frank, if I was poised to splurge on a new high end bike, I would def (right now) go Canyon. The value is so apparent. You can see why Specialized is scrabbling to emulate and salvage market share, with their retailers getting caught in the middle.
There were 2-3 Specialized independent dealers here in Northern Colorado, and Specialized opened three corporate stores. Granite that the 3 IBD (independent bicycle dealers) stores don't carry a lot of the Specialized brand, but that has to make you think inventory availability may be dedicated to their corporate locations. You can say there is a lot of soap opera here in NOCO.
As an independent local bike shop owner in NZ, we turn away canyon service work. We're independent, carry over 30 brands and the distributors are giving us stock to put in our shop. The online option only serves a small audience in reality, so many other brands have tried to go direct to consumer in other industries and failed.
The reason product value is maintained over time is the backup service, and long term value of a product. Canyon don't give a crap, they're just flogging bikes out the door with no cost in relation to after sales service. We see too many people thinking they've got a great deal, but we're their first port of call when it goes bad. I'm sorry but that doesn't keep our lights on, canyon take trusting margin which isn't shared with local bike shops, instead the end customer left with a bike that nobody wants to touch. Certainly I have no incentive to invest in any specialist tools to work on their bikes, why should I? They're literally bypassing my business and making their customers approach me and piss in my pocket when they have a problem when they haven't done a thing to that point to keep our business alive.
It's bullshit and bike shops everywhere need to wake up. Send a message back that the LBS don't endorse B2C, it doesn't serve the consumer in the long run, and will lead to the LBS decline, and if nothing else service rates will need to increase where there's no retail margin to buffer issues on new bikes. Everyone wants a deal, but there's no free lunches. Wake up.
Good points and I can see why you would not be a fan of Canyon. I happen to be handy and have my own tools so I would fall outside of your customer base in this regard also, i.e. I would have no need of your service department. It is a harsh reality of our times that a ton of people buy online and avoid brick and mortar and the extra margin charged in order to keep the lights on. Good luck to you.
@@chrisandshellz you are in a minority Imo.
What’s going wrong w canyon bikes that don’t go wrong with your 30 other brands?
Why wouldn’t you do basic service work?
Why would I then come into your shop to buy tires? To buy brake pads?
All that stuff I can buy online for 50% off what you charge.
If I bring my bike into a shop that didn’t sell me the bike- and they service that bike and are cool- I will stop by on purpose to buy tire seal, the buy energy goo, to buy a new helmet.
You are missing out on a lot of sales.
My buddies did buy Canyon bikes- they have never had a problem with them.
The local guys does service on them with a smile. My friends buy all their overpriced stuff in the shop to support him.
Same stuff you can buy online for 50% less.
@DaveEPie you clearly don't see or need a local bike shop to be open in your area then.
The commercial reality is that our costs can't be covered by just doing service work. So in theory if ALL bike brands only sold online, and bike shops couldn't sell an actual bike, just do service work, then there would be only 2 outcomes. 1. We'd shut and walk away, no more bike shop for you to buy your tires and tubes at short notice. 2. We could stay open but service rates would increase to a point where we may as well be closed.
What one do you want? There's not enough margin in just service work to cover our costs and make a decent business. If the mechanics smile and work on canyon bikes for you and your friends, I'd say they're on wages and don't actually own the business.
If they had a clue how bad it was, and their job was in jeopardy letting online take over, they probably wouldn't be smiling.
If another brand we don't sell comes in, that's usually sold in a store, of course we service it. But other online bikes other than canyon are shown the door. That customer has made a buying decision that they need to own. They wanted cheap and didn't want us to stay open by buying a bike from a local bike shop in the first place. Why should I smile and be happy for the crumbs that don't put dinner on our table? Canyon are in a lucky position taking discounted retail margin from online shoppers.
Perhaps you've never owned a business nor understand what needs to happen to stay open. Maybe bike mechanics and rent aren't that much where you are, but as the business owner paying the bills, I need to sell bikes, make margin to keep the doors open. End of story. Canyon are not on my team.
Sometimes children feel they have overgrown their 20"" or 24" bike and they get an adult sized bike. This small bike is given to a younger child after being fixed up, instead of a parent buying a new bicycle for the smaller child. This is re-cycling which people feel is a very good thing now. The result is fewer new bicycles are sold.
Watching you, I keep wondering if you are pissed?? What's in that can?
Nevertheless, lots of what you are saying makes sense.
My experience aligns with your comments. Starting in the '80s I purchased a bunch of Specialized bikes in a row. I had a few different StumpJumpers in a row and I loved them. The first was a '90s hardtail. Then, I progressed to dual suspension. I grew with the changes in technology. On the road bike side, I had a beautiful carbon Roubaix that was the same as we watched going around on the Tour de France. Then, when e-bikes came along, I purchased a 2017 S-Works Turbo Levo 6 Fattie. It was excellent; leading edge. You might say I was a loyal customer.
That was before the extreme greed began to overtake. Within the next year or so the price of my Levo literally doubled. Yes, they tweaked it with a little new tech. But honestly, where was the added value to justify doubling the price. By 2020 Specialized had totally buggered their own future business by price gouging.
People aren't buying new bikes today because Specialized totally burned customers during COVID-19 times. We all got screwed so bad that it still hurts. People don't forget and people certainly won't forgive big corporate for being so damned greedy.
If Specialized folds, then it is their own greedy fault.
I'm not mad; I'm just concerned for LBS (local bike shops) and how Specialized and Trek have abandoned them. Bing energy drink (like RedBull) is what's in the can. amzn.to/478zoTg
Had a small shop in a very non cycling California town back in 2000 sold SC, iron horse, mongoose, and harp. specialized wouldn’t even look at our shop. They told me straight up. There’s a shop 48 miles away that sells our products and you’re shop is in it’s sells area. We did ok for 3 years. Bunch of farmers that didn’t ride. Happy Trails Dude.
I'm at an impasse. I bought a Specialized Rockhopper comp 29er a couple of years ago for fitness. I had NO clue what the hell I was doing/buying etc. It was $1,000. I have rode the shit out of my bike and absolutely love biking and have learned a few things along the way. So, I'm looking for an upgrade, right? And the prices are killing me!! I have no clue what to do at this point. Anything considered an "upgrade" from the big brands is crazy!
Check the used market, but for used mountain bikes make sure the suspension has been tuned recently.
I did the same thing, bought a Rockhopper sport 2 months back while on vacation here in Romania and EVERYONE here rides bikes so I got a decent deal (geographic arbitrage is awesome) after riding it and killing myself on these steep ass hills I went looking for something a bit lighter/racy and found a 2020 Epic Comp with carbon wheels and in close to perfect condition for $1,000 and the dude even brought it to me. My point is, is to buy used and if you are going on vacation or business tripping in other countries, take a good look at their bike websites/used markets and there's no way that you won't find a bike and pay a fair price for it. I'd never pay 3500 for a new bike but I'll gladly pay 1000 for nearly new/gently used. Be aware of the warranty situation though.
@@codered7453 Thanks for the advice! Much appreciated!
Just enjoy your bike, bro. Change out the individual parts and you'll be all set.
@@gregorypenetrante1272 I think I'm gonna do just that. Still learning what all different parts do and what upgrades I need/want. But that's the plan I think.
Big brands like Specialized, Trek and Giant will be able to weather the storm. The smaller boutique brands don’t have the large bank accounts to survive.
That is so true.
Earlier this year, Giant postponed paying their bills by 90 days. Rgr
I wrench bikes / motorized bikes independently for over 30 years now - shop trained - Most of my work comes generated word of mouth. I have built a decent clientele. The lion share of the new client bikes I have seen are older bikes that customers have had to the LBS aannd been told "its. not worth fixing' "You need this bike right here" I am the guy with that part for your '69 Schwinn Collegiate etc.
People are keeping their bikes these days. Leave the selling to the indi dealer like yourself. As you made mention, buying and selling used is smart. I have re purposed many over the years and the satisfaction is 100. I will take the misfits all day. Give the people what they want!
* I support my LBS (independent).
I refurbish about 100-150 bikes a year and do about 100 tune-ups. That's with just little old me cranking from bikes to TH-cam videos. It's tough to do all aspects of a business, but it's my passion, and my 12-hour days don't seem that long.
First to fall is bikes that never added Sram's UDH...Now you can not add the Sram Eagle Transmission system... the ultimate gearing for a bike... currently...
Sadly for pinion and you, you have to have a pinon bike frame, too....
Parts mix is very important.
My MTB cost more than my motorcycle... I've ride competitively for the last 25 years! What am I suppose to do? I mean it keep me young and fit but, by now it cost a lot...
Seeing this with Harley motorcycles overpriced arrogance
The new pivot for that new DH bike better shoot sparks or turn you into Super Bruni, but how many sales will a DH rig generate?
Average Joe doesn't need one.
They are cool but have a low volume in the overall market of cycling.
Specialized is charging $2800 for 10 speed Tiagra. Of course nobody is buying them. They are out of their minds if they think that is going to sell.
Right? That is just insane!
LL Bean in Freeport Maine is open 24 7..every day..and they sell bikes...
Would be interesting to see their hourly traffic sales reports.
I bought a used aluminum frame and built my bike to fit my needs. 29-inch bontrager rims rock shox forks, shimano accessories , all in about 1600. And i got to ride while i upgraded it. My bike is great in the trails. It's a hard tail, but it works fine for me.1600 is a lot cheaper than dumping 3 to 4k all once. Prices today are out-of control. Just like harley davidson lol.
I just spent more money than I ever thought I would on a rod bike and had to fend off the sales guys’ pushing me toward electronic shifting this and carbon everything that. I was told you “need” this and that to ride. I miss the old days of riding my POS bike all day and just having fun.
I work on mostly older, more straightforward bikes, which still compare to many new ones definitely if you are on a budget.
The point is I’m not on a strict budget, but the level of technology being sold to the average rider is overkill.
I heard that Cannondale shut down last week. Is that true? And now Specialized. Schwinn is failing? What is the next brand to go down?
It seems that too many things are priced according to "what the market will bear for the next 15 minutes" vs. a sustainable profit margin
I’ve been riding Road for 30 years....from my fathers Motobecane Super Mirage...given to me, stripped down, toe strap pedals and a Profile triathlon bar attached (15/16 years old )😁....to my first serious bike, a late 90s I think, 3.0 Criterium frameset Cannondale equippwith Campagnolo Mirage 9 speed (still own it)....to a Fuji Team Super Lite equipped with Chorus 10 speed......I always WANT BIKES🤷🏻♂️....I’m a Bike Nut...it’s IMPLIED....I DO NOT HOWEVER, possess the desire to go into HOCK on a bicycle.....or empty my savings.....
I am rebuilding the Cannondale with a 10 speed Campy group and that’s it....the frame is in excellent condition, my weight has never exceeded 142 pounds and I don’t abuse my bikes
Keep cranking and keeping the cycling passion alive!
I bike a lot and I see that half the riders are on ebikes. All the new riders are on ebikes. If specialized, trek etc want to survive, they need to make an affordable ebike that is around 1 to 2k. Just put a hub motor on a frame and call it a day.
Those prices do need to come down for sure.
Thank for pulling the curtain to show the industry insides.
Curious about your view on the component business, Shimano, Sram, Chinese stuff.
Yeah, I should put together a video on those as well.
Everything I've heard is that dudebro at Spec has always had it against the LBS's and never wanted middlemen but the world had no alternative until now. Agree on the shop hours. I do 99% of my own maintenance and its usually between 8-12pm. Between 3 wheelsets I'm always buying crap like sealant. If they were open, I'd be in at least once a week.
Your local bike shops will need to work harder on their niche just to compete. It can work, but it just adds to the stress and workload of shop owners. This is a big lesson not solely to drink the cool aid of any brand. Sell the shop environment, not less on the products. You can even in a small shop move your retail hours to grab more customers. By spit shifts or close for mid-day lunch rides. Or just start later in the day example: 12 pm to 8 pm m-f.
This is why sometimes I end up going to REI rather than an LBS. Always thought there was an obvious business opportunity in keeping one body at the till and one in the back with the wrenches just to hold a customer's hand and order whatever part they need. Nothing against REI btw.
This was very informative. Thanks!
In the UK Specialized bought Rutland - who had expanded through acquisition to have quite a few bike shops around the country. Rutland bought 3 stores locally. 2 (both 'station cycles' as they were before, closed over the last couple of years and now the last one (the e-bike specialist, branded Rutland) is closing too. The staff are very annoyed. It's a decent shop that was doing fine, but Specialized having to retrench means they are out of a job. They will find work - there are still plenty of people cycling here and buying bikes, but it's a pity that this sort of consolidation is removing perfectly good bike shops. We still have more than 20 in the town (Cambridge UK) but I do much prefer my bike shops to be _actually_ independent, not just store-fronts for particular brands like Specialized and Giant.
Thank you for your insights from over the pond. Not sure why they are not using Specialized as the name of their stores, Incycle is what they are using here in Colorado. They are not fooling anyone.
I think though that floor space is already tight to fit enough new models and sizes.
It is, but retail rent is out of hand! There are other options that may help a lot of shops out.