Costs should come down in future but it will always cost more than Lead Acid (I'm 99% certain anyways), if we wanted to compete only on costs we would make the battery with far less capacity, its superior performance would compensate for that reduced capacity and the vehicle/owner would experience a battery that lasts about as long as their AGM and costs the same but weighs around 5lbs (~20lbs lighter)... There is a market for that but it isn't our market, our market is for owners who want a balance of highest performance, longest lasting (>3x longer than Lead) and weight savings (~14lbs lighter); this balance makes the BEST battery but it doesn't make the lowest price... We only want to sell the BEST battery for an application though, someone else can sell the compromise solutions...
The regular AGM battery is about $200. The Ohmmu battery is $439, but lasts 3x as long. It seems to me that the Ohmmu battery is a much better deal, and that doesn't factor in performance benefits.
Many prefer a trouble free longer life battery in an EV and this is the answer. How many lead acid batteries can perform like this one? I hope you do not have cheap tires on the Tesla, same rationale. Best wishes.
I did this weight savings mod. After installing a heavy ass spare I HAD to offset some of that unwanted weight. Stock battery 29 pounds vs lithium 11.5 pounds...a weight savings of 17.5 pounds.
Thanks for the info. I followed your video and changed the 12v battery. The car works now but the message to replace the battery is still on the screen. How do I clear it?
It's a 12v battery with about 7000 mah, correct? If you leave several things charging in it over night, does the 12v battery go dead or does the main battery automatically start charging it when it gets low?
Some (like teslatap) have said that these Lithium batteries will only last about a year given the deep cycles needed by the car. Do you think that is of concern?
And Teslatap has revised this statement now that they looked into the differences between various Lithium chemistry, they are not all the same, Lithium Iron Phosphate is much better and will last many years doing deep cycles (multiples of what an AGM battery can do)
Where did you get the lead spacers to adapt the size of battery terminals? Do the spacers come with the original battery, or does Ohmmu send those with the battery, or must it be purchased separately?
No, OEM is AGM. Still heavy and they don’t last that long in an EV. Tesla’s use a lot of 12V battery even when parked (lots of computers) so they are constantly cycling their 12V batteries and wear them down quickly. Lithium is the best chemistry for this type of usage. If you factor in a couple swaps and labor the price is not too bad...
Very interested but, Would this battery work in Vermont during the colder Winter? Would the vehicle warrantee be maintained if we were to install this? Thank you so much,
Definitely, the warranty is definitely good for Vermont winters and the battery will perform fine. We have shipped to Finland and Canada and even Alaska, no performance issues have been reported. In addition to that we test our batteries in thermal chambers for performance in extreme cold as well as extreme heat, you are good!
@@OhmmuEnergy Thank you, I assume that my Tesla warrantee would be voided if I installed your battery? So will likely have to wait right. Have you studied how the model 3 charges it's 12V battery in detail?
So how would this battery function as compared to the OEM lead acid during a power loss due to high voltage battery complete depletion? Would it be able to operate doors and windows longer while a tow truck was being summoned?
Probably not so long, the 12v system is taxed really much in tesla's. The battery is not teperature controlled and regularly deeply discharged. Lithium Ion battery is not a good choice for tesla's there's a reason they chose lead-acid. Source: teslatap.com/articles/12-volt-battery-compendium/
Ardjan Munter I guess you didn’t read to the bottom of the page (or maybe they edited it after you read it). They mention this company (Ohmmu) specifically as providing a superior replacement to AGM lead-acid batteries.
Does anybody know how to find replacement plastic clips that hold the cover and the intake on? Mine has been on and off so many times, that some of those clips are now damaged....and some even missing. My closest service center doesn't seem to hav a way to sell them to me.
Telsa and other EV manufacturers use Lead batteries because they can take more abuse and don't require special charging algorithm and BMS. How is this addressed?
Charging algorithm for these batteries is matched to AGM. When getting into really specific algorithm optimization it is more to do with getting 100% charged, in this application that is totally unnecessary and also will be of benefit to the battery to never get 100% charged, 80-90% charged as the maximum is great for these LFP batteries and will make them last all the longer.
I think a 12V Lithium battery is not a good idea unless you live in a warm climate. Lead Acid don't lose as much capacity as Lithium batteries do in the cold. The only advantages are lighter weight and higher capacity, which makes sense for the large drive battery but only the 12 V battery.
Lead Acid vs Lithium Iron Phosphate (note: not all Lithium are created equally); cold weather capacity loss is similar, as is cold weather performance degradation and life degradation rate.
CAREFUL. There's an updated video below. Also take note of its chat message from JP that refines it even more: That's not the correct power down procedure you can damage modules in that way. Granted it's a very small risk but still not worth it. 1. Lower windows and power off from screen 2. Disconnected the neg cable on the battery 3. THEN disconnect the LV connector under the back seat. You can now replace the battery however once you do, DO NOT CONNECT the neg cable yet. Now powering back up is in reverse. Connect the LV connector then finally connect the neg cable Other then that it's a very informative video th-cam.com/video/76PtZPF-Dvo/w-d-xo.html
Except... that's not the order of things shown in the linked video. At least that I can tell! So even more confusing. In the linked video, the windows are lowered, screen is powered off, and the plug is pulled under the seat. Then the 12V is disconnected, positive, negative. Replaced the same way, then the plug under the seat is again connected.
@@johnp.weiksnar6861 OH, now I (sort of!) understand. What you posted was from a chat message, and is significantly different from THIS video and different from the updated video you linked to. So.... two videos that each show a different order of things, then a clarifying chat message that's different from the rest. What could go wrong? :-) Seriously, I appreciate you chiming in to try and make sense of the method being shown. Because really that's the entire point of these videos....and they're both demonstrating the incorrect way of doing it.
@@RinoaL not true at all. the 12v battery is used to power basically everything in the car, minus the cabin heater and the drivetrain. everything else is running off of that 12v battery.
@@RinoaL Laws don't require a 12V Lead Acid battery; the driving reason for Tesla not using them is cost and speed to market. Also Tesla uses Lithium chemistry that are not compatible with 12V systems (they are NOT using Lithium Iron Phosphate for any other components) so they would have to introduce an entirely new product, one which is already available from us (Ohmmu) and also available as AGM for cheap in bulk from Korean battery manufacturers like AtlasBX (where they are buying them now). An automaker like Tesla plans for buying 1,000,000 units; if they pay $200 more per unit, that means someone is justifying a $200,000,000 cost in the production budget... Even if it helps the service cost, that is someone elses problem altogether and that team that needs to justify the $200M will be hard pressed to do so within their own realm of influence...
Car is a Car. Tesla replaces the gasoline engine. Where the electricity (needed instead of fuel) comes > from the charge station or home outlet< Is of no concern. Where does it come from? Coal plant, wind plant, solar plant... Also in 10/20 years time, where do the recycled used-up batteries go? Also how far down in the earth is needed to go, to retrieve the elements needed in making the batteries? is that a concern. i have to think a gas powered car is a simpler less earth-invasive proposition.
This is definitely a valid concern if the reason you purchased a Tesla is for environmental offset. Personally, I did not and couldn't care less if it powered itself by jamming trees in an inlet and blowing black smoke out the back. However, I did do some research. The carbon footprint for creating an electric car definitely is higher than for a gas-powered car. However, even with the most generous estimates (assuming all power from charging the car is coal-generated) it will overtake the gas-powered car within 1-3 years depending on battery size and other factors. The location of the pollution is also an issue that should be looked at; most power plants are located in industrial centers far away from commercial and residential areas, which helps to keep air quality high in major urban areas. The Gigafactory recycles a massive amount of battery components every day. In the future it's not unreasonable to believe these batteries will also find uses in other products such as Powerwalls when their range or other characteristics become unsuitable for use in a vehicle. However, the batteries are warrantied for 8 years and 100,000 miles, so by the time it comes to recycle them they will have already more than offset themselves. Although there are some lithium mines, most of it is actually recovered from evaporating brine water. The majority of these are located in South America, but there is one operating in the US currently and there is a company opening another one 150 miles north of the Gigafactory which are bringing more of the production materials back into the US. We can expect to see more sites for both mining and recovering lithium open up as demand soars over the next few years (until whatever the next sustainable battery material ends up being comes out).
Try living in an area where oil companies use injection disposal. My Dad is dealing with an injection site that has fractured and is spilling toxic salt water (with other really bad chemicals mixed in) all over his property. It might take years to clean up. Think oil has no earth-invasive cost?
An ICE vehicle is only cleaner/simpler if you buy one and never drive it. New Numbers Are In and EVs Are Cleaner Than Ever blog.ucsusa.org/dave-reichmuth/new-numbers-are-in-and-evs-are-cleaner-than-ever#.XYlZRcU4ceI.twitter www.ucsusa.org/sites/default/files/attach/2015/11/Cleaner-Cars-from-Cradle-to-Grave-full-report.pdf All you've posted are questions without sources to support what you are implying.
@@capn2289 You posted a couple of links to a Union of Concerned Scientists report published in November 2015. I can't find anything more recent than that 4 year old report from them which is a shame, my gut feeling is battery electric vehicles production has in the interim become less polluting still but without more recent numbers a gut feeling is worthless. Anyway for those clinging to the higher pollution from producing an EV as opposed to an ICE car by 2015 that margin had reduced such that in 6 to 16 months of normal use the score card was equal, and pollution from that point on from a BEV was about half that of an equivalent ICE vehicle. We really need an updated report.
Tip: Put a tag/note on the new battery with date & milage when installed/renewed.
Thanks for sharing. It is noted.
Hey I know the Ohmmu guy! Good to see you!
I got the M3 by the way and yes it is being flatbedded as we speak for a new battery with no warning.
I saw this in Rolf’s channel on Sunday. I’ll definitely want one of these when my battery needs replacing.
$439! Yipes, love the concept, but I'll swap out the PbAcid when necessary for 1/3rd the price. Get the price down to around $200 and I'm in.
Costs should come down in future but it will always cost more than Lead Acid (I'm 99% certain anyways), if we wanted to compete only on costs we would make the battery with far less capacity, its superior performance would compensate for that reduced capacity and the vehicle/owner would experience a battery that lasts about as long as their AGM and costs the same but weighs around 5lbs (~20lbs lighter)... There is a market for that but it isn't our market, our market is for owners who want a balance of highest performance, longest lasting (>3x longer than Lead) and weight savings (~14lbs lighter); this balance makes the BEST battery but it doesn't make the lowest price... We only want to sell the BEST battery for an application though, someone else can sell the compromise solutions...
you forgot to add $20 for adapters. I'll purchase lead acid from Interstate...Several times.
The regular AGM battery is about $200. The Ohmmu battery is $439, but lasts 3x as long. It seems to me that the Ohmmu battery is a much better deal, and that doesn't factor in performance benefits.
Many prefer a trouble free longer life battery in an EV and this is the answer. How many lead acid batteries can perform like this one? I hope you do not have cheap tires on the Tesla, same rationale. Best wishes.
Highway robbery.
I liked this movie, thank you for making it.
love you guys for sharing and for saving me the money for going to Tesla service center.
I did this weight savings mod. After installing a heavy ass spare I HAD to offset some of that unwanted weight. Stock battery 29 pounds vs lithium 11.5 pounds...a weight savings of 17.5 pounds.
Thanks for the info. I followed your video and changed the 12v battery. The car works now but the message to replace the battery is still on the screen. How do I clear it?
It's a 12v battery with about 7000 mah, correct? If you leave several things charging in it over night, does the 12v battery go dead or does the main battery automatically start charging it when it gets low?
How did you switch on the system again?
So no vent on this battery?
Correct, no venting needed.
Some (like teslatap) have said that these Lithium batteries will only last about a year given the deep cycles needed by the car. Do you think that is of concern?
Did you email the company directly for this information?
They have much more cycle capacity but can not handle being frozen. That's probably where you heard the one year thing from.
And Teslatap has revised this statement now that they looked into the differences between various Lithium chemistry, they are not all the same, Lithium Iron Phosphate is much better and will last many years doing deep cycles (multiples of what an AGM battery can do)
Where did you get the lead spacers to adapt the size of battery terminals? Do the spacers come with the original battery, or does Ohmmu send those with the battery, or must it be purchased separately?
Thanks for the video. How much is the battery.
Expensive! Any benefits by using an AGM?
No, OEM is AGM. Still heavy and they don’t last that long in an EV. Tesla’s use a lot of 12V battery even when parked (lots of computers) so they are constantly cycling their 12V batteries and wear them down quickly. Lithium is the best chemistry for this type of usage. If you factor in a couple swaps and labor the price is not too bad...
@@OhmmuEnergy Thanks, didn't realize that the OEM was AGM.
Very interested but, Would this battery work in Vermont during the colder Winter? Would the vehicle warrantee be maintained if we were to install this? Thank you so much,
Definitely, the warranty is definitely good for Vermont winters and the battery will perform fine. We have shipped to Finland and Canada and even Alaska, no performance issues have been reported. In addition to that we test our batteries in thermal chambers for performance in extreme cold as well as extreme heat, you are good!
@@OhmmuEnergy Thank you, I assume that my Tesla warrantee would be voided if I installed your battery? So will likely have to wait right. Have you studied how the model 3 charges it's 12V battery in detail?
I will be buying one once warranty is over.
So how would this battery function as compared to the OEM lead acid during a power loss due to high voltage battery complete depletion? Would it be able to operate doors and windows longer while a tow truck was being summoned?
Out of interest, can you jump start anything from the *stock* battery or is it too limited on current?
no you cant, says so in maual. There's a 50 amp fuste that will probably not allow it.
What BMS do these have?
HOW LONG DOES IT LAST THE V12 BATTERY?
Probably not so long, the 12v system is taxed really much in tesla's. The battery is not teperature controlled and regularly deeply discharged. Lithium Ion battery is not a good choice for tesla's there's a reason they chose lead-acid.
Source: teslatap.com/articles/12-volt-battery-compendium/
Ardjan Munter I guess you didn’t read to the bottom of the page (or maybe they edited it after you read it). They mention this company (Ohmmu) specifically as providing a superior replacement to AGM lead-acid batteries.
Does anybody know how to find replacement plastic clips that hold the cover and the intake on? Mine has been on and off so many times, that some of those clips are now damaged....and some even missing. My closest service center doesn't seem to hav a way to sell them to me.
What size lead spacer is needed? Does the battery come with those?
The battery does come with the spacers. They are about 3mm thickness, JIS-Pencil to SAE. Thank you!
Should I be pre-emptively be replacing my M3 Oem battery? If so at a certain age or would it be mileage? I am in Canada
Just wait for failure warning in dash. Unless you are fearful of getting stranded far from service locations when that happens...
$300 for the 12v though versus $85
Telsa and other EV manufacturers use Lead batteries because they can take more abuse and don't require special charging algorithm and BMS. How is this addressed?
they only use it because the laws require a car to have a 12v battery
Charging algorithm for these batteries is matched to AGM. When getting into really specific algorithm optimization it is more to do with getting 100% charged, in this application that is totally unnecessary and also will be of benefit to the battery to never get 100% charged, 80-90% charged as the maximum is great for these LFP batteries and will make them last all the longer.
Did he forget to put the vent tube back? I didn't see where it goes.
Lithium Iron Phosphate is a non off-gassing chemistry, there is no need for the vent tube once the battery is replaced.
Is there any vent cap on the 12v battery to check electrolyte level... top off to make sure you get maximum life?
I think a 12V Lithium battery is not a good idea unless you live in a warm climate. Lead Acid don't lose as much capacity as Lithium batteries do in the cold. The only advantages are lighter weight and higher capacity, which makes sense for the large drive battery but only the 12 V battery.
Lead Acid vs Lithium Iron Phosphate (note: not all Lithium are created equally); cold weather capacity loss is similar, as is cold weather performance degradation and life degradation rate.
Most say dont use a lithium battery use AGM deep cycle.
Super auf Deutsch wäre grossartig Danke
Looks fantastic until you see the price of $439.00
Holy f'ing shit
I put a new batterie to my Tesla but the notification keeps popping
You can buy 5 Tesla batteries for the price of 1 Ohmmu. No thanks.
CAREFUL. There's an updated video below.
Also take note of its chat message from JP that refines it even more:
That's not the correct power down procedure you can damage modules in that way. Granted it's a very small risk but still not worth it.
1. Lower windows and power off from screen
2. Disconnected the neg cable on the battery
3. THEN disconnect the LV connector under the back seat.
You can now replace the battery however once you do, DO NOT CONNECT the neg cable yet.
Now powering back up is in reverse. Connect the LV connector then finally connect the neg cable
Other then that it's a very informative video
th-cam.com/video/76PtZPF-Dvo/w-d-xo.html
Except... that's not the order of things shown in the linked video. At least that I can tell! So even more confusing. In the linked video, the windows are lowered, screen is powered off, and the plug is pulled under the seat. Then the 12V is disconnected, positive, negative. Replaced the same way, then the plug under the seat is again connected.
@@darelldd Right, thanks, the comment I quoted updates the procedure in the video, and that's precisely what I was calling out.
@@johnp.weiksnar6861 OH, now I (sort of!) understand. What you posted was from a chat message, and is significantly different from THIS video and different from the updated video you linked to. So.... two videos that each show a different order of things, then a clarifying chat message that's different from the rest. What could go wrong? :-)
Seriously, I appreciate you chiming in to try and make sense of the method being shown. Because really that's the entire point of these videos....and they're both demonstrating the incorrect way of doing it.
@@darelldd Bingo. It sounds like a perfect opportunity to clarify with a whole new video.
Don't you guys also need to disconnect the high voltage battery as described in this video? th-cam.com/video/Fbm3dLMsrew/w-d-xo.html
Not interested, not interested, what? More bass? I'm listening.....
If they're so much superior, why isn't Tesla already using them?
because it isnt needed. only reason BEVs have a 12v lead acid battery is due to dumb antiquated laws.
@@RinoaL not true at all. the 12v battery is used to power basically everything in the car, minus the cabin heater and the drivetrain. everything else is running off of that 12v battery.
@@RinoaL Laws don't require a 12V Lead Acid battery; the driving reason for Tesla not using them is cost and speed to market. Also Tesla uses Lithium chemistry that are not compatible with 12V systems (they are NOT using Lithium Iron Phosphate for any other components) so they would have to introduce an entirely new product, one which is already available from us (Ohmmu) and also available as AGM for cheap in bulk from Korean battery manufacturers like AtlasBX (where they are buying them now). An automaker like Tesla plans for buying 1,000,000 units; if they pay $200 more per unit, that means someone is justifying a $200,000,000 cost in the production budget... Even if it helps the service cost, that is someone elses problem altogether and that team that needs to justify the $200M will be hard pressed to do so within their own realm of influence...
Замена аккумулятора 12 вольт в Tesla
th-cam.com/video/lgWM-TGLtJM/w-d-xo.html
Car is a Car. Tesla replaces the gasoline engine. Where the electricity (needed instead of fuel) comes > from the charge station or home outlet< Is of no concern. Where does it come from? Coal plant, wind plant, solar plant...
Also in 10/20 years time, where do the recycled used-up batteries go?
Also how far down in the earth is needed to go, to retrieve the elements needed in making the batteries? is that a concern.
i have to think a gas powered car is a simpler less earth-invasive proposition.
This is definitely a valid concern if the reason you purchased a Tesla is for environmental offset. Personally, I did not and couldn't care less if it powered itself by jamming trees in an inlet and blowing black smoke out the back. However, I did do some research. The carbon footprint for creating an electric car definitely is higher than for a gas-powered car. However, even with the most generous estimates (assuming all power from charging the car is coal-generated) it will overtake the gas-powered car within 1-3 years depending on battery size and other factors. The location of the pollution is also an issue that should be looked at; most power plants are located in industrial centers far away from commercial and residential areas, which helps to keep air quality high in major urban areas.
The Gigafactory recycles a massive amount of battery components every day. In the future it's not unreasonable to believe these batteries will also find uses in other products such as Powerwalls when their range or other characteristics become unsuitable for use in a vehicle. However, the batteries are warrantied for 8 years and 100,000 miles, so by the time it comes to recycle them they will have already more than offset themselves.
Although there are some lithium mines, most of it is actually recovered from evaporating brine water. The majority of these are located in South America, but there is one operating in the US currently and there is a company opening another one 150 miles north of the Gigafactory which are bringing more of the production materials back into the US. We can expect to see more sites for both mining and recovering lithium open up as demand soars over the next few years (until whatever the next sustainable battery material ends up being comes out).
Try living in an area where oil companies use injection disposal. My Dad is dealing with an injection site that has fractured and is spilling toxic salt water (with other really bad chemicals mixed in) all over his property. It might take years to clean up. Think oil has no earth-invasive cost?
Did you forget where gasoline comes from?
An ICE vehicle is only cleaner/simpler if you buy one and never drive it.
New Numbers Are In and EVs Are Cleaner Than Ever blog.ucsusa.org/dave-reichmuth/new-numbers-are-in-and-evs-are-cleaner-than-ever#.XYlZRcU4ceI.twitter
www.ucsusa.org/sites/default/files/attach/2015/11/Cleaner-Cars-from-Cradle-to-Grave-full-report.pdf
All you've posted are questions without sources to support what you are implying.
@@capn2289 You posted a couple of links to a Union of Concerned Scientists report published in November 2015. I can't find anything more recent than that 4 year old report from them which is a shame, my gut feeling is battery electric vehicles production has in the interim become less polluting still but without more recent numbers a gut feeling is worthless. Anyway for those clinging to the higher pollution from producing an EV as opposed to an ICE car by 2015 that margin had reduced such that in 6 to 16 months of normal use the score card was equal, and pollution from that point on from a BEV was about half that of an equivalent ICE vehicle. We really need an updated report.