As a teenager and an owner of a brand new Jupiter 8 in 1983 I can tell this, when I came home from work, opened my door and saw that gorgeous Jupiter 8 waiting for me to switch it on I thought I'd died and gone to heaven. It as an inspirational keyboard, the Ferrari of synths and nothing will ever replace it. 😎
Stumbled across this and now subscribed. As someone who has been using synths since the mid 70’s I agree 100% with what you are saying here. I am also much more focused on composition today and getting into detailed sound design gets in the way. What I look for now are tools that accelerate the process of composition.
I agree with you. Having owned a CS80, Prophet 5 and 2000, Rhodes Chroma, DX7 and many more of the big hitters in the 80's when they were the normal price (CS80 paid $2500) it's lovely these synths are thought of so highly 45 years later. But I wouldn't swap any of them for my modern Fantom and Montage keys of today. The CS80 had constant oscilator tuning issues and the Chroma proved very unreliable with lots of repair bills. Plus any sonic superiority can easily be lost within the context of a full mix anyway. You can still easily learn hands on synthesis on things like the Roland System 8. But if you want to own them as an investment, and for their general build quality then I totally understand the thinking and each to their own.
The D-50 and the Wavestation are pure gold for someone who is more focused on composing and less on playing around with synths. I would add the Roland JV-880 / 1080 and you’re good to go. At least these are the 3 synths (besides the Alpha Juno) I use on every song I make.
That D50 keybed is surprisingly nice. And I also use mine to control a JV-1080, so evidently I completely support this statement. And unlike the synths in this video, used Wavestations are still affordable
@@JeffreyScottPetro I also agree, but I'd point out that all three of these instruments have excellent software emulations (at least the XV-5080 for the JV, which is basically the same thing). When I buy a hardware instrument, I try to get something unique that doesn't duplicate what's already on my computer or iPad.
Did want to add a couple more things. I agree with your list. I too owned several older vintage ones in the day (Juno 60 twice, Juno 106 twice, OB-xa, OB-8 twice, Jupiter 6 twice, SH-01, DX7 three times, etc…. Point is, except for the DX7, Korg M1, D50 & SH-01, they all had to head to the repair shop at least once! Got rid of them all but kept the DX7 & went to rack versions of the others. Then I fell in love with Arturia and found that as the most viable way to get what I wanted. Check out G-Force Oberheim suite… wow!! Thanks again for your list & keep them coming! 😊
Agree 💯 Expensive nostalgia vs practicality. Leave it to millionaires to amass cool retro synth museums Stay safe and buy what you can afford. I get fantastic sounds from my 1983 DX7 1988 Roland RD300s 1999 Korg N5EX Kawai MP10 Yamaha MX61 And a Nord or plug in will give you access to hundreds of yesteryear tones plus Hammonds, Rhodes and ultra realistic samples of the entire symphony orchestra
You’re missing a lot here. Vintage synths and drum machines are a good investment aside from sounding amazing. For example I purchased a mint Linndrum in 2015 for $1400 and it’s now worth over 6k. Nine out of ten new synths will only decline in value over time. Also most vintage synths are made with far superior craftsmanship than new synths coming out of China. All the new moog stuff is coming out of China. Most of the new roland stuff is made out of plastic. In the late 90’s most companies stopped releasing schematics and therefore most new synths are also not easily serviced if there’s a problem. Where a Juno 106 or a minimoog will ALWAYS be serviceable.
Just my two cents... if resale value is your deciding factor for buying a synth, you're kinda missing the point. Especially if you're passing up a synth that you like more but won't buy because it "won't hold its value".
I don’t think very many people buy synths just because of its resale value. There are much faster ways to make a return on your money. But you are absolutely right.
Thank you for saying it. I'd also add the Korg Poly-800. Got 'em both. It's like someone performed the Jedi mind trick on people. They're just not that good. Just use your ears. They're OK at best. Nice chorus on the Juno, but you can get a better chorus from a pedal at a fraction of the cost - and you can use it on other synths. The Juno earned its reputation for its ease of programming and roadworthiness. I won't go into the Poly-800, except to say it was a beginner poly(?)synth at almost modest prices in the 80s. Today, I wouldn't touch it for more than $250. At $300, there are better options that aren't 40 years old.
I own a Juno 60. Got it for next to nothing (under $200) from someone that had no idea what it was and just wanted it gone. I probably would never have the desire to own one otherwise… not at what they sell for out there today.
"the only thing going for it" ... indeed. But really, interface is king. There's a lot to be said for immediately usable sounds that can hardly go wrong. That said: there's really no call for today's near-deification of the Juno -- except perhaps as antidote to the more-more-more choices available in today's softsynths
Couldn't agree more. I have a Shruthi-1 with SMR-4MKII filter. This synth can emulate any MOOG, or Roland sound, plus digital waveforms, for a well rounded synth. Only payed 200.00 dollars for this synth, plus forty bucks shipping, it is brand new. I have already created many patch's and I am thinking of purchasing an additional one with a different flavor filter. I might even purchase a Michigan Synth Works XENA Synth, they are only $435.00 out the door. Cheers!
@@JeffreyScottPetro Old design, incredible sounding mono synth for the money. You can order different types of filters for the Shruthi-1, and Ambika synths, like the SMR-4 filter, a Polivoks filter, a 4PM filter, and a Dual SVF filter design. The (Ambika synth), same heritage as the Shruthi-1 is a polyphonic version, with six voice cards. Old designs really with very modern applications. Check them out my friend, pretty nice value in my humble opinion. Cheers!
Just because it has the same filter doesn’t mean it sounds the same. My Pro One sounds way different than my other CEM based synths including the Prophet 5. But other than that the shruthi is cool synth.
The SH-101/Juno 106 were great for me from a learning standpoint, but honestly? My Minilogue ticks most of those boxes. Most of my synths can and are emulated just as well in software, but I do really enjoy playing with them cost-effectiveness be damned. The big Casios (VZ and CZ) are just shockingly fun to play with even though, as digital synths, software can do the job just fine.
It IS fun to play the real instruments. Some I have, some others, I can only imagine (with the help of my computer and my Fantom 8). It's good to be playing keyboards in 2024.
Very good comment on various synthesizers, congrats. :-) I am a person who was in his early 20ies when the first affordable synthesizers became available. Apart from my Rhodes Mark I piano I owned only three originals (plus some periphery): a Crumar Multiman S, a Roland Jupiter-4 and a Roland SH-1. With these I have been able to write and record beautiful songs (on tape). I still own the SH-1 which is about 45 years old now, of course it requires some maintenance but I would not sell it because I love it so much and it is very rare. When I sold my Jupiter-4 a couple of years ago, which was still fully functional at that time, I did so because I felt I had heard it all of what the synthesizer was capable of, even though it sounded richer than the Jupiter-8 which I could not afford at those early days but of course would have liked to own. For the sum I obtained from the sale I purchased a (physical) Hammond organ (SK2) in order to be able to write songs in the style of Deep Purple. Nowadays I am using a plethora of software synth of all kinds, mostly and preferably the physically modelled re-makes of their precursors, avoiding the sampled ones. And I am completely satisfied with this option. Owning the originals may on one hand be costly if you can acquire one and on the other hand you can count the time when there will arise some electrical or mechanical malfunction. I guess in the end it is not worth it. (/from Germany)
This is a really good and justified list of the Synth-Lore overhyped units. The exception is the MINI MOOG at number 6. The car equivalent is a classic Corvette Corvette. The architecture and signal flow is outstanding and still is extremely sexy.
2 303s don't even sound alike 😂 I would happily put a large pile of cash on 99.99% of synth enthusiasts not being able tell the difference between a HW 303 and the Roland Cloud VST in a mix, let alone your average punter. @@TheBroDotTV
I got myself a Jupiter 8, Juno 106 and JX-3P in a box with the System 8, I hope these will last me longer than their Analog versions. Still got heaps of control, but hopefully none of the analog issues. 🤞 Cool video and list!
I'm telling you, man... you're BRAVE, rational, down to earth, objective and solid. Most youtubers can't even have two of these together, think of Dr.Mix and the like. I'm a synth fan since the early 90s and yes... most of my acquaintances get crazy about overhyped synths and pay an absurd amount of money for very old machines they can't even program or configure. I'm a hardware person anyway, engineer and designer. Count me in your fan club. Far greetings from Chile, Southamerica.
I'm not always going to say things that everyone will like. I understand that if I wanted my channel to be more popular, I should sound like a used car salesman and tell people that everything is amazing. Keep a lookout for my Halloween episode. It's just for fun, but some people may be upset. Thank you for your support, it is appreciated.
Prophet 5 is amazing, but today I would go with the Take 5. I have both and they can sound almost identical but I prefer the T5, because it has the features the Prophet is missing like Stereo, SubOSC, 2 Lfos, Mod Matrix, Overdrive, Panning ( you have Voice Spread as a Mod Source, very cool). I don’t even miss the 61 Keys because of the clever octave split. The only stuff the T5 is missing is the amazing Poly Unison, but the stereo stuff alone makes the T5 sound more appealing.
This was fun. I was strapped in for no reason it seems. I can't find any fault in your list, and I agree that you could have made a list of 31 overhyped synths, and if you really wanted to, you could extend that to a much higher number by including synths being released today. I especially agree with your views on modular systems, and I say that as a sound designer and musician of more years than I'd care to admit. One point to make here is the "nostalgia effect" that many synth buyers with a little too much extra cash fall victim to, which is an altogether different thing than the desire for analog sounding or perhaps true analog vintage synths, and not quite the same as GAS. Moog and other classic synth manufacturers have done quite well for themselves capitalizing on our collective nostalgia in the past decade or two. My first synth was a Roland Alpha Juno, which I spent countless hours playing in the late 80s. I loved that synth at the time, and I still miss it, nostalgically, but I'm not going to buy one today. I can replicate all of it easily with my more modern synths. On the other hand, some people are collectors. They don't typically play the synths they own. They see these vintage synths as investments to resell, or as gear to brag about owning or having once owned. And this brings me to the point why I wanted to write this comment. None of these vintage synths or any of today's synths will make anyone a better musician. They won't magically improve your tracks. Besides, good musicians can make music with almost any piece of kit, new or old. I'm almost done. LOL. Sorry for the long comment. I have three hardware Wavestations (2 EXs and 1 A/D) that I will never sell for any reason. They have all needed repair over the past 30 years -- screens, power supplies, a broken key. But to me they are priceless and still sound amazing today, and I'm quite comfortable editing them without software. In fact, I can't bear using a computer to make music or do sound design. That's a rant for another day. Glad I found your channel. :)
I have another I'd add to the list - the Roland MKS-80 (Super Jupiter). If they'd actually stuck a Jupiter-8 into a rackmount case with the same discrete Roland filters, I might feel differently, but that's not what they did, plus you'll need to bank on dropping another couple of thousand for the MPG-80 to go with it.
Ok. I did get a bit “butt hurt” by your choices but I see your point. The legendary status attached to these originals far outweighs their usefulness against more flexible, more reliable stuff developed later with the benefit of 40+ years of technological advancement. Obvious really. And I’m on board, I have Hydrasynth which I know is more capable than a CS-80, and a System 8 for all things ancient and Roland. Why do I still crave the old stuff though? I’d love to see a 21st century version of this list. My #1? Everything Nord…
I agree with almost all of this, but... I absolutely LOVE the sound of the Prophet 5. I love the interface/workflow. I love the limitations. I learned synths on a rev.2 back in 1980 so I recognize the emotional tie. I do NOT love it enough to pay for one and use VSTs instead. However, IF Behringer pull off a decent clone...
Two synth I have had that I'd add... Teisco 60f, single oscillator with a week 12db filter. I put a 2:1 compressor between the filter and VCF which helped to beef it up a bit but it was still not very good. It is build like a tank! But the sliders are prone to dirt ingress, So, if you buy one, check the sliders first and keep it covered when not in use. The other is a rare animal, syntrack by Spectral Audio. A one trick pony only any good for bass. One good thing about it is that the few controls it has all recieve//send midi. It has an 18db low pass filter that sounds reather thin (I would put that down to the LM13700 used in the filters) I have seen both on eBay/Reverb going for silly prices. Personally, I would not want to pay more that £250 for each of them.
"I can understand why it costs more than a Ford Pinto". 😂😂😂😂 ROFL! I love it! FINALLY, someone who speaks my language! I think I'm in love. 😊 This is such a practical video. And you didn't even mention the tuning instabilities of the Memorymoog. I used an Xpander at a studio once. It was OK, but I actually thought it was pretty limited. A bandmate had a Prophet 5. I hated that screechy thing. Many of the synths on this list I have Arturia versions of, and I rarely use them. And don't even get me started on Modular. I'm a songwriter. I don't have time to waste noodling around on something like that. And that's all I ever hear people do on those things on social media: noodle. Not one catchy melody ever comes out of what I hear online. Thanks for being a voice of reason.
Hi, this may be more of a ‘complex’ list to make but…what would be cool is if someone would make a list of the best current keyboards (less than 15 yrs old) that emulates the older vintage ones! I know Behringer has been busy with that & Aturia makes great soft synth versions but if I wanted a reasonably priced ‘clone’ version of a Juno 106 or Jupiter 8 or CS-80 or minimoog? That would be cool to have as a reference. Just an FYI….
Thanks for the suggestion. I have been working a few months on a video that may offer a less expensive option to the Jupiter 8. I hope to have it done by the summer.
Loved this video! I agree with all your points, and also believe that they extend to software emulations of the synths on your list; 99% of the time, I end up using general "all-around" softsynths (like Surge XT and Vital, or even stock DAW synths), rather than reach for a Juno or CS-80-emulating plugin. Because their GUIs are minimalistic and don't simulate a hardware synth panel, it's easier and faster for me to dial in the sound that I want. I do find modular synth sofware super fun, though! Would you make a video comparing the "big leagues" of synth emulation (G-Force, IK Multimedia, Arturia, Cherry Audio, Softube etc.)? I'm especially curious to know what you think about Syntronik, since it's a ROMpler that plays round-robin samples from the original hardware, rather than a "regular" synth plugin.
I agree with most of what you say, especially the Juno 106, I have to chuckle every time i see someone with one of those in their setup.. its like they all seem to have to have one because of the hype, I owned one for around 30 years, used it at first as it was the only poly synth I had at the time, and I did enjoy it due to it being one of the only synth's I owned at the time, but it ended up standing against a wall in the corner as I bought more capable machines, when I finally decided to let some synth's go, I considered selling my 106 and my humble Novation K-Station, so out of curiosity I rigged them both up to see what one was the better machine in my eyes, after playing the few sounds I liked on the 106, I could easily create extremely similar sounds on the K-Station, and I mean really really similar, but apart from the K-Station having a smaller keyboard, it really was far superior, not the sort of thing a 106 fan boy would like to hear I suppose, and I've had a few angrily tell me that the K-Station is a toy compared to the 106, I think owning the 106 for so long gives me plenty of time to realise its extremely over hyped, and if you're considering one, pick up a Novation K-Station, KS, Nova II etc, they are far superior, and can sound far better with far more capability, even though they are all virtual analogue, you will also save a huge amount of money.. also the Deepmind 12/6 is far superior to the 106, if it has to be genuinely analogue vco's in your mind, the 106 is very basic compared to a Deepmind, and you could probably buy 3 or more second hand Deepmind 12's for the cost of one overpriced 106.. please don't listen to the hype.. oh and I still have my humble K-Station, great little machine, the 106 is long gone, now relax and play some synth!
Glad you’re brave enough to call out the model D. People that own Voyagers always get made fun of because “ha but it’s not a model D” meanwhile the Voyager is over 1000 times more capable
I agree with most of the list. But Juno 106? Come on. Thin? 😅 I got mine since end of 90th (yes, now I have to replace the chips) and most of the time I had to dial it back in a mix as it's too powerful. The transient and bass pressure is huge. And the harmonics it has in higher frequencies always cuts through the mix, no matter what you do with it. The filter is awesome, especially when mistreated for experimentation. A kind of is own. There are some VST emulations but they all are very undefined, weak and flat in comparison - even Softube's version. Nymphes is a great sounding hardware alternative but it doesn't make the character of the 106 redundant. Which monitor speakers are you listening on? Cheers.
Of course anything could be somewhat replicated with software but what hardware mono and poly synths do you recommend for people that prefer hardware ?
I recommend you try a bunch and buy what you like. What I like, may not be what you like. Folks, sometimes ask me if I like Synth A and Synth B, and I give them my opinion. In several of my episodes I have specifically stated that I'm not recommending any specific product. I give my opinion and other info, and it's up to the viewer to decide. I've been offered sponsorship for the channel, and I've turned it down, because I didn't believe in the product. If a company with a product I love offers me a sponsorship deal, I'll accept it, but that hasn't happened yet. Thanks for your comment.
Most (if not all) classic synth sounds can be recreated by skilful synth programmer, either in software, or in modern workstation synths like Korg or Kurzweil But you cannot re-create physical experience. Some people love to stick patch cords into the commutation board, and only true modular synth can offer this experience .
Agreed. I've said that in several videos. You can duplicate the sound in software, but it's not the same experience. Behringer hardware clones have changed some of that, yet even at their affordable prices, some folks can't swing it and opt for software.
I feel like I dodged a bullet by not basing my studio around analog synths. Nothing against them, but i found there are so many good digital options that can do much more for the money. I still plan on trying out the pro-800 tho.
The difference is really prominent when you are physically in front of the instrument, hearing it in the room. Once we mix this stuff together, the magic is EQ'ed out. 😄
Having owned several of the synths on this list I can say with (subjective) certainty that there is indeed a difference between the hardware and software versions. The real thing sounds bigger and more 3D than their software counterparts. But the argument you’re making about that difference vs cost and reliability is a valid one. Btw Roland’s plug out versions of their classic synths- used in hardware-sound excellent and are remarkably faithful to the originals
I own a small eurorack ensemble. For me, it's simply a lot of nostalgia, because i grew up in the 70ies and 80ies with Tangerine Dream and Klaus Schulze (Berlin School stuff). And to be honest, in a practical point of view, it makes no sense. But it's FUN.
A very respectful but honest assessment of some vintage classics, you get so much more reliability, flexibility and potential in modern synths available today...sorry if that upsets the old school fetishists
I was just talking about this with a friend the other night. It’s really about price-to-performance ratio. I paid $300 for my Matrix 1000 (24 years ago) and that was a great deal. Totally worth it. Would I pay $600 or more for one? Absolutely not. As you said, for the price they fetch today, you could get something much more useful. The CS-80 is heavy, unreliable, and costs more than many luxury cars…it would possibly be more practical to own if it wasn’t for the over-inflated price. There is nothing about it that can justify a price tag that huge. I already felt that way when they were going for $10k…and that was long long ago! Ditto the Jupiter 8. It’s a lovely synth, sits in a mix nicely, but it absolutely does not warrant the gigantic asking price. There are plenty of ways to get close to that sound without selling a kidney. Really that’s the deal with most of the things on your list - they’re legendary, have been used on lots of records, but the hype has outstripped their usefulness. As the price goes up and up, they become less and less appealing. I still consider the Minimoog the king of synths, but its incredibly limited feature set is not worth the many thousands they fetch nowadays. I paid $3500 for mine, still the most expensive instrument I own, and I used to take it to all my gigs…it sure does look cool sitting up there, but it’s just not worth the risk anymore since they have only gone up in value. I use a Behringer D now onstage and no one has ever complained about the sound being inferior… I don’t really get why people are so nuts over the Juno-106. The Juno-6/60 sounds better imho although it’s missing a few features. Back in the late 90s my friend bought a Juno-6 for a few hundred bucks and I thought it was “just ok”…I was an analog junkie and thought it sounded thin. Which, in a way, it does. He willed it to me and it’s been a staple in my studio since he passed in 2020. I’ve grown to love the Juno sound…it’s nothing fancy , very predictable, but just works in a mix so well. Hard to make a Juno sound bad. But I would never buy one for what they go for today!
Same. I bought one back in the 90s for, I believe, $240 or so. That was a great purchase at the time. I remember the salesman saying, "Well, if you want something low priced, we have a bunch of these for sale. They're not bad."
Moog is pronounced with a long "o" vowel, not "oo" like with a moo cow. It's 'moog" like "moan". Bob Moog used to mention how people didn't know how to pronounce his name. It's German, and was originally spelled Mohg.
Actually, there is no exact English equivalent pronunciation to Moog in German. The rhyme to "Vogue" (another comment) isn't it! The "straight and open ending" long/double o vowel in German is just not present in English. English does always bend the o/oo to something else... 🥴
Since the release of this video, I have seen Reverb prices drop over 25%. I replaced most of my vintage analogs with modern reissues such as a Prophet 10, OBX8, Model D 2016 reissue. These will be easy to repair in the future. I did hang on to the Juno 60, they are reliable and nothing I have heard sounds like that amazing chorus. And yes, I have a 106 which has new voice chips and is near mint, I think it sounds great, especially for spacey pads.
Agree on the modular rabbit hole. I still have a rack and I've spent thousands on modules. It was fun and a learning experience but they really are not that great and a huge time killer looking for that perfect new sound. I can go over to any of my other hardware synths and dial up a new sound that is better in a fraction of the time. Getting a analogue synth with extensive patching matrices are incredibly versatile for sound design and cost a fraction of the money and a whole lot less time patching.
@@JeffreyScottPetro I think it's mostly using my ears to hear if the sound I wanted is coming close to what I want in my head. I never really learned about all the EG rate, keyboard scaling etc. I just kept tweaking.
In the late 90s and early 2000s I paid what would be today considered bargain prices for all these synths but that put a big dent in my pocketbook at the time ( yes I had a working CS 80) and, with the exception of the Xpander ( the mutimode filter, lfo and envelope options make it still useful today imo) I agree with this generally- Had a linntronics memorymoog as well-they are all gone- do not miss them . Interestingly, I do miss my polyevolver.. BTW as Bob said "it's Moog as in Rogue"
Thanks, and I know about Bob's name. Part of a European upbringing. I often say Gah-rage and not Ger-rage and a bunch of other words, even after all these years. Some folks lost their mind in the comments. At least you were polite. Appreciate the comment.
I never understood the hype around the Minimoog. It's so. . . basic. Also, I'm genuinely surprised the Yamaha DX-7 wasn't on this list. Agree 100% with the modular synths.
I was wondering if the DX7 would make the list as well. Of course it's a legendary synth, but there's really not anything a DX7 can do that can't be done in a VST or a Raspberry Pi running MiniDexed for far less money. For anyone still pondering a DX7 purchase, I'd suggest instead considering an SY-77/TG-77, or better yet, an SY-99.
Thanks for the question. On person that commented suggested that it can be a price compared to utility ratio evaluation, and I think there is merit to that suggestion. The answer to your question could be yes to some degree, but this video is not just about price, it's more about the halos that follow the gear around. I have another video that is coming up in a month or two that specifically evaluates on price. I think some of the gear here gets hit a second time, and there is other ancillary studio gear, not just electronic instruments. Thanks for the comment.
My first synth as a kid was a Yamaha DX21 and boy was that a mistake...I didn't know what FM synthesis was and this synth proved to be a learning experience! I yearned for more than 4ops, and so years later, I had the money to get a used DX7 FDII. Now *THAT'S* a synth! I had that for years and played that a lot. 6 ops opened up a completely new world of FM synthesis! To get my feet wet into subtractive analog synthesis, I purchased a Deepmind 12 a few years ago. After cutting my teeth on FM synthesis, I never realized how easy subtractive synsthesis is! So I started getting addicted to the Korg Volca systems...what a fun bunch of synths! And don't get me started on that NTS-1!
I was with you all the way except for the Prophet 5. That keyboard is pure magic like no other. Agree with all your other choices as I've owned many of them (minimoog, Matrix 12, Juno, etc).
I applaud you for saying it. I wouldn't want to own an actual CS80. I've seen what's inside of there and have heard how fragile beasties they are. I'm happy with the emulation of it from Cherry Audio and the version I built in PureData. Took me a month and lots of study and poring over the manual and any technical docs I could find. The filter envelope was a revelation and I've generalized that approach when making synths in software. I learned so much from the CS80. Also, absolutely adore the Jupiter 8 and TAL makes a loving recreation in the TAL J-8. One of my favorites. Also, the SQ8L (Ensoniq SQ80) is an old version, but sounds great. I've got a big collections of the classics in software. And that's good, because I don't have the budget for anything else than the software versions, many of them free. There's also Osiris, an emulation of the Access Virus B and C. They emulated the DSP chip and Osiris uses the (end user supplied) ROMs from the Virus. I have had the opportunity to play a couple of Dave Smith instruments and they were lovely. So expressive and immediate, but again, unobtanium for my budget. Inspiration for when I'm doing sound design and creating expressive patches with lots of dimensions And the modular -- whoo what a money sink they could be. Unless your wife builds a book case of modules for a few hundred dollars. Lots of fun and enjoyment and pride for her to have made an instrument like that. But most of the practical modular stuff I use is VCV as a CLAP plugin in my DAW. Unlimited modules, essentially free. I love sound design, I love composing and studying classic synths has taught me a lot. But I'll save my money. Maybe a Korg WaveState. That's something in reach. Or a UB-Xa for that polyphonic aftertouch keyboard and classic Oberheim sound. Those filters! and multi-timbrality, like the Jupiter and the CS-80. So that's where SurgeXT gets that idea, from all the classic powerhouses of yesteryear, wink wink.
Synthesizers are made for playing them🎹🎹🎹, not for waiting worth more money. I stopped investing in old synths because of money. I bought newer synths and play them almost every day🎹🎹🎹
I can’t be mad about your #1 pic, but purely for sound design it’s so fascinating like you said. So far the only semi-modular gear I have is the Behringer Neutron and that box packs a massive punch for the price. My pipe dream is to build a stage rack full of modular synths that I can wheel around to gigs and control with a master keyboard like a Fantom, or even a controller like the Keylab. Redundant? Yes. Exciting? Also yes. Lol
I'm curious what a hardware M1, D50 or Wavestation offers that the software versions don't, considering that these are entirely digital internally except for the DAC. Whereas software versions of genuine analogue are harder to reproduce. (Disclaimer: I own only two analog synths: the mopho and the bass station, and don't use them that much.)
I agree with you on all points. About 10 years ago, I started collecting the Nord Lead series and never looked back. To my ears, they are remarkable. I don’t know how they do it. and this is coming from someone who’s owned a number of vintage analogs. And (thanks to a friend), I even had a Jupiter-8 in my home for three months. It was a cool experience, but after about 3 days I was like, meh.. The thing also weighs a ton and became frighteningly hot after about 10 minutes of use. I was terrified that it was going to blow up on my watch. I think it’s not so much the synth as it is. (It’s who played them, and what recordings they were featured on). In other words “synth lore”.
I was in a trip-hop band in the 1990s, and we were blown away by how good the SH-101 sounded in our tracks, so you can imagine how excited we were when I found a Juno 6 for £250 and brought it in. We were all really disappointed at how thin it sounded. As for modular…I don’t know, I think it’s for people who enjoy giving themselves IQ tests? It’s like the plot of Lord of The Rings, but in synth form!
As much as I love some of these synths on the list, I totally get your argument and take no offense whatsoever, in fact i respect it and see you point of view. Thank you for your honest opinion 🙏
You pronounce Moog the way I pronounced Moog before I was browbeaten by a cadre of remote synth scholars on the internet, ah the memories of the before times are delicious in such weird ways. Juno 106 was the first synth on my mind, glad to see it in the winner's circle.
The whole vintage keyboard pricing is ridiculous. I have the new versions of the prophet 10 and ob-x8 I guess mainly because I owned the originals when they first came out and it’s a nostalgia thing for me. Yes those sounds can be duplicated at a fraction of the price I paid and honestly I don’t play them on gigs but for some reason I like having them in my possession. I agree with you on the memory moog. It sounds incredible when it’s working but back when they came out it was so unreliable that I passed on it and bought an OBXa instead. The voyetra 8 is another example similar to the memory moog. Software certainly has come along way and will continue to improve. Finally the Juno 106. Wow that keyboard never sounded great even when new and was a poor man’s attempt at a Jupiter 8. The chorus really is the only thing that makes it fat. And perhaps the sub oscillator. That poly synth brass sound and its variation can be so easily well reproduced with numerous vst’s etc. and I would say this is the most overhyped keyboard of them all.
I have to agree with this video. Although these synths (and others) were amazing when they first came out, they're almost mythical today because of the great music made using them. If we could go back in time and give the younger Vangelis (my favourite synth wizard) any good recent synth, he would certainly use it in an amazing way, and that synth would also become an icon. Many of these synths were great a doing some sounds, and terrible at everything else. But those iconic sounds were an integral part of many great songs and great artists, and those sounds couldn't be replicated by anything else at that point in time. We can love it or hate it, but even the Korg M1 introduced some specific sounds due to its inability to produce something like a realistic acoustic piano. Despite that, it was widely used by manu artists, and that was part of the sound of the early 90's. I remember having the M1 for a weekend when it came out, and it sounded amazing. I ended up buying the SY 77 in 1990 (which I still own), and despite having its own strengths against the M1, it never became so iconic as the M1, maybe because it sounded more natural and less "fresh" and bold than the older and less expensive M1. The M1 became the icon, while the SY 77 was mostly forgotten, and I can understand why. 😉 And that's also why I believe that no other synth will ever get the iconic status like so many synths on this video, and many others which weren't mentioned. It's virtually inpossible for any synth to stand out ever again in the music history, since most of them are on a insanely high level of sound quality, the competition comes from several brands (both in hardware and software), making it harder to even guess which synth was used in any given song. Then there's the whole hardware vs software question, and even in the early 90's, if you wanted the sound of the Korg Wavestation, you had to buy it! Today, we have not only the vst version of it, but also the Wavestate released both as a plugin and hardware versions. I understand why Korg (and so many others) released both versions at the same time, and the advantages of software synths for some applications. But I also feel that it makes the hardware version feel less special than it could be, even if any digital synth was (at its core) a CPU running a custom software for producing sounds, many of them based on much smaller sample sizes than we already have on software synths for quite some time. But in the end, sounds were only as great as what artists did with them musically, and the difference between a $5000 dollar synth and a $400 dollar plugin isn't remotely similar to what it was on hardware synths 30 years ago. Those vintage synths sounded unique in a magnitude thar will never be possible again. I would love to own a CS 80, Jupiter 8 (and many others), although I doubt that I'd use them a lot, for how limited they are today.
Put Octave Plateau Voyetra 8 on this list. I had one in 1990. Final version [ ver3?] with midi in/out. Oscillator wave form tone is very good and the 3 space rack looks way cool. But be ready to live with it's 12 bit digital envelopes with their inherent stair-step and zippering sound.
Plus the fact that they cost a fortune if you can find one. I never owned one, but got to spend some extended quality time with one back in 1984. They're really neat synths and sound good, but ultimately yet another variation on the Curtis/SSM sound, IMO. They were also a royal pain when it came to editing patches.
@@stevepreskitt283 And. . . the envelope slopes were more linear than logorithmic, which means that the decay and release never sounded quite musical or natural.
Most sensible synth video that I've seen on TH-cam in a long time--maybe ever. If you have a PC or iPad, than you have far more sonic resources than any of these will give you for less money. Old Korgs like the Mono/Poly, MS-20 and MicroKorg and anything that ARP ever made also belong on this list. I'd add the EMS Synthi A/AKS/VCS3 too. Analog snobs are like Rolex watch collectors. They enjot the rareity, cost and exclusivity of their items. But they don't perform their basic function any better than equivalents that cost a tiny fraction as much--and often with more utility and functions. I got my first Moog in the 70's and I have zero desire to go back to that era.
Sorry, but the MS-20 doesn't. None of the emulations even come close to the hardware for that one. Own the hardware and can compare it. Not even the hardware Behringer K2 sounds like the original! Just listen to Starsky Carr which does very good comparisons! The Prophet 5, Mini Moog, Pro 1. Juno 106, Jupiter 8 are almost perfectly emulated in software though.
@Magnus_Loov Could be. I've never owned an MS-20 and always used emulation, including the Kronos. Idoi know that they're respected for the8r raw, dirty sound, so that might be hard to get right. On the whole, though, VSTs continue to improve and that's definitely where I see the trend going.
New to your channel. For the new comers with money burning holes in your pockets, listen to this guy. Aside from my sound design interests virtual analog has come a long way and the Roland System 1m gives me the best of both in a simple straight forward board with all the hands on control I could ask for.
I've had a 106. It kept blowing voice chips to the point that I got rid of it. My first synth was aJen SX1000. I still have it. Very basic but it gave me a good introduction to using synths. I also had a SCI Pro one in the early 80's. That got sold to fund a garage bill. I recently bought the Behringer clone of it. It's amazing. I also have a Novation Mininova which for such a cheap little synth is capable of emulating so many of the old classic analogues.
Hi Jeff. I agree wholeheartedly with your assessments. Of course there are nuances to the values placed on vintage gear but, for most, ( unless you can burn through $ ) it’s not practical nor wise. These “ synth lore “ instruments are not a prudent investment in general. If you’ve noticed, whenever someone mentions “ CS-80” what do we think of immediately? Not the sound or music creation process but, the $. That right there can tell you where everyone’s ( and I speak hyperbole ) mind is. I bought my CS-80 new in 1980. $4400. I toured with it for a couple of decades with little to no problems. I think I was lucky. Prog was king and it sat atop the CP70, along side the B3 w/ L 147 cab, Mini and D6. The other side was the Roads and Profit 600. Quite backbreaking for the first 10ys. Once in top 40, I ended up storing all this and scaled back to a DW8000, D50, Mirage, DX2FD then, VFX , TS-10, XP-50, and finally, the Motif 6, King Korg, BS2 and Hydrasynth. Now, some of these and a bunch of B clones, Mofo, and a Tr8s sit atop the studio desk w/pedals and a couple of DAW’s. Point is; smaller and happier through the years to date. I did notice that the “ synth hype “ gained its meteoric rise once online auctions such as EBay took off because remember, just a mere few years earlier, these super synths were at garage sale prices - in the hundreds. The CS-80 always has a soft spot. It inspired me to new heights but, increasingly lost its appeal due to its limitations and sound capabilities. imho. Popular You Tubers such as Dave Spiers and the guys on Sonic Talk etc. can attest to this sentiment. Personally, I think that the lesser CS models offer a lot more fun, sound and variety for today’s contemporary music and better bang for buck. P.S: I still have some left but sold the 80 years ago to get into a mortgage. I wouldn’t advise anyone to buy synths for the $ investment but for enjoying their music making and, keeping it simple. It’s a different time we live in and soon we’ll have to contend with a housing bubble. Everything else follows. Thanks for your opinion Jeff. It does shed light.
Hi Jeff, greetings from Liverpool UK!! As a very long standing synth lover and player I found this video incredibly interesting indeed!! Being as you mentioned almost all the classics here, just wondering which synths you wouldn't deem overhyped?? Arp Odyssey, Oberheim OBXa, Alesis Andromeda, Moog Polymoog, Korg M1, PPG Wave, Korg Polysix, Roland Jupiter 4, Access Virus, Roland SH101, SCI Pro One and Roland Juno 60 weren't mentioned, so I'm guessing it might be those?? Just have to say that I owned a Yamaha DX7 briefly around 1989 and really wasn't impressed at all, after dreaming of owning one for so long, wow, what an anti-climax!! I sold it a few months later and bought a Roland D50 which was much more in line with what I believed a good synth should be!!
Hi Andre... birthplace of the Beatles, that's awesome: I would say the M1, DX7, D-50, and Wavestation, are not overhyped. They're also relatively affordable for older keyboards. I see you are not a fan of the DX7. I'm a fanboy of the DX7, but I respect your opinion, we all have our favorites. I love the D-50 too, used to have two D-550's. I need to get the one I still have fixed. Appreciate the comment.
No argument from me on your picks as there is something different for everyone. Ask 100 people for this list and you will get 100 different lists. My only comment really is... it is pronounced Moog as in rhyming with Rogue. Dave Luce (from Moog) taught me that in Buffalo NY. Great and interesting video!
Hey Jeff, I enjoyed watching the countdown. To your point, pretty much any hardware synth can be replicated "better than analog" these days. I think the broader question is "do we even need hardware synths anymore, especially analog synths?" Anthony Marinelli's channel has a great spot with a well-known synth designer who basically says "all keyboards are overhyped these days, and digital emulations are more analog than even analog synths." I have an OB-X8. I love that I own it. But it's the "lore" that keeps me from selling it. When I want an Oberheim sound in a mix, I pull up Diva, Dune 3, Arturia Analog Lab or Omnisphere and dial in a Oberheim sound while the real Oberheim sits on the keyboard stand with a cover over top of it. Truth!
Interesting post. I'd amend the subject to be more along the lines of Overhyped/Overpriced. There isn't a single bad sounding synth on the list. In fact the only bad thing about any of the synths on the list, are the prices. If you're starting out and don't mind menu diving or mouse clicking, then there are loads of cheaper alternatives than the gear you mentioned, but none will give you immediate sound sculpting access like these classics which were basically knob-per-function instruments just like drawbars on an organ. With the almost infinite knobs/sliders/access points of modular, that's probably the only one I 100% agree with, only because if you don't understand basic synthesis fundamentals, like the OG Moog Oscillator-Filter-VCA paradigm, then a modular will likely overwhelm you. Not only are modulars typically some of the most expensive, unless you understand, and absolutely need to access the matrix of complexity they afford, you would truly be wasting your money. Most of the gear on the list is so well sought after, they are almost, (but probably not quite) financial investments.
Wholeheartedly agree to the extent that I’d include most vintage synths and, again like yourself I’ve owned/still own them. There’s an irrational allure to these that’s often based on the desire of ownership knowing that they were used on music that you loved. As human beings we make all our decisions and justify them at an emotional level and kid ourselves that we’ve done it at a rational level.
I used to be bitter that one of my friends, not sure which, swiped my Juno 106 back in '99. Now I'm grateful. The boutique does a great job and there are 5 other options in hardware and software. Even my MPC has a Juno VST.
I agree with you on these, I had a realistic MG-1 when they were new, and I can't believe that they are hot today. (I re-wired mine, installing a switch to route the "contour" voltage to filter resonance) but I get distracted by the mispronunciation of "Moog", it rhymes with "Rogue", according to Bob himself
Never really wanted to get into modular, and it seems to be an expensive route. If anyone reading this is into modular please don't throw your patch cables at me😂
@@jp4751- I started going down the modular route. Some of the sequencers are amazing. But the cost vs return is way too high so I sold the lot. No regrets 👍
I do like the hardware synths I own (3 ensoniqs, 1 korg), I've never had or likely will anything own one that's too vintage, I feel can agree with the sentiments here. When I first got into synths in around 2010, I really wanted an analogue synth from the prime era, and had my sights on getting a Chroma Polaris one day... that's long gone, would not want to own one for many reasons now, lol.
You could get a vintage hardware synth, if you're willing to deal wit their idiosyncrasies and age. I have a couple that are between 30 and 40 years old, and still do well - at least for now. It's really about what you're after, and why you get them. VSTs are brilliant, but lack the physicality of hardware. There's something to be said for a box of which you know exactly what it'll do. And I say this as a professional software developer: I don't really like software. It's like trying to catch the wind.
I think when most people relate to the CS80, they're actually relating to Vangelis. After having played a CS80 myself, I can safely say that the synth doesn't give you access to his powers - lol! Doesn't mean the CS is bad by any stretch - but it's hardly essential from a synthesis standpoint, and new expressive MIDI keyboards are coming out now to rival its player-friendliness.
I’ve been using, buying, and selling synths since the late 80s. I consider myself a recovered analog purist. I could not agree with you more. Every choice you made here was well warranted. ESP the modular synth placement. I look at modular as more of a tool for learning than music making. It can be done much cheaper in software and it does look cool, but that’s about it.
Great video! I agree, you can buy these classics in software for a fraction of the price. Yes the hardware may or may not sound better but software synths today offer very high value and sound quality.
"... to get a portion of that experience, even if it's not identical" -- spot on -- and true of most synths. Generally good advice for anything, really.
...speaking of Pat Metheny. I had always thought the lead on Last Train Home was a synth until I saw a live performance video. I remember they used that song for an Amtrak commercial... First place I heard it. Great song.
Adding my 2 cents worth, from the list I once owned & loved: the Mini Moog and the Roland System 700 modular. Yes, the Moog is fat and its filter is beautiful but mine drifted so much it was never used for melodies. While the System 700 was amazing! The sounds that it would create were awesome. Its osculators were solid as a rock. I sold both in the '80s. So, do I miss them? No! As the mellotron was my favourite keyboard from the era I now use only sample libraries my outboard gear like the Korg Kronos and a DX-7 gather dust.
Well done, excellent presentation. In the last 4/5 years, I have found soft synths have really come into their own. For example, my Korg M1 never sounded as good as the soft synth version by Korg!
Which of course is not surprising since they're entirely digital inside, and Korg can thus write a perfect emulation, with improvements like polyphony.
I will have episodes on synth plugins. I have some plugin episodes scheduled in July, but they are sample libraries- over 30 of them. Thanks for the suggestion.
As a teenager and an owner of a brand new Jupiter 8 in 1983 I can tell this, when I came home from work, opened my door and saw that gorgeous Jupiter 8 waiting for me to switch it on I thought I'd died and gone to heaven. It as an inspirational keyboard, the Ferrari of synths and nothing will ever replace it. 😎
It's an amazing instrument. Appreciate the history.
Don't ever sell it, just having one is legendary
Soft synths walk circles around that thing… sorry, man 🤷♂️
@@ghfjfghjasdfasdf walks circles around what ? and what is a soft synth, I'm not being sarcastic I'm asking because I don't understand the terminology
The Jupiter 8
Software Synths
Reluctantly I found myself agreeing with this guy. And it hurt .
Jeffrey woke up that morning and chose pure and utter violence.
LOL! 😂
Best comment here
I don’t think anyone has ever claimed any of these synths to be practical or economical.
Neither is a 1970 Miura.
But that’s not the point, is it?
You make a good point, sir. Thanks for the comment.
Stumbled across this and now subscribed. As someone who has been using synths since the mid 70’s I agree 100% with what you are saying here. I am also much more focused on composition today and getting into detailed sound design gets in the way. What I look for now are tools that accelerate the process of composition.
Thanks for the sub and the comment.
Looking at the Erica Synth DIY modules I soldered myself, "he's not talking about you. You are an educational expense"
I agree with you. Having owned a CS80, Prophet 5 and 2000, Rhodes Chroma, DX7 and many more of the big hitters in the 80's when they were the normal price (CS80 paid $2500) it's lovely these synths are thought of so highly 45 years later. But I wouldn't swap any of them for my modern Fantom and Montage keys of today. The CS80 had constant oscilator tuning issues and the Chroma proved very unreliable with lots of repair bills. Plus any sonic superiority can easily be lost within the context of a full mix anyway. You can still easily learn hands on synthesis on things like the Roland System 8. But if you want to own them as an investment, and for their general build quality then I totally understand the thinking and each to their own.
The D-50 and the Wavestation are pure gold for someone who is more focused on composing and less on playing around with synths. I would add the Roland JV-880 / 1080 and you’re good to go. At least these are the 3 synths (besides the Alpha Juno) I use on every song I make.
Totally agree. Thanks for the comment.
That D50 keybed is surprisingly nice. And I also use mine to control a JV-1080, so evidently I completely support this statement. And unlike the synths in this video, used Wavestations are still affordable
@@JeffreyScottPetro I also agree, but I'd point out that all three of these instruments have excellent software emulations (at least the XV-5080 for the JV, which is basically the same thing). When I buy a hardware instrument, I try to get something unique that doesn't duplicate what's already on my computer or iPad.
Since uploading this video, the channel owner has been "detained" indefinitely by the Analogue Synth Police.
LOL. Thanks for that.
Hahaha. you'd wish. This guy talks the truth, sadly not accepted by those analog myth believers....
Did want to add a couple more things. I agree with your list. I too owned several older vintage ones in the day (Juno 60 twice, Juno 106 twice, OB-xa, OB-8 twice, Jupiter 6 twice, SH-01, DX7 three times, etc…. Point is, except for the DX7, Korg M1, D50 & SH-01, they all had to head to the repair shop at least once! Got rid of them all but kept the DX7 & went to rack versions of the others. Then I fell in love with Arturia and found that as the most viable way to get what I wanted. Check out G-Force Oberheim suite… wow!! Thanks again for your list & keep them coming! 😊
Wow! Those are some great boards. If only everything was as reliable as a DX7.
My Pro-One basically fell to pieces, unprovoked, on stage !
Agree 💯
Expensive nostalgia vs practicality. Leave it to millionaires to amass cool retro synth museums
Stay safe and buy what you can afford. I get fantastic sounds from my
1983 DX7
1988 Roland RD300s
1999 Korg N5EX
Kawai MP10
Yamaha MX61
And a Nord or plug in will give you access to hundreds of yesteryear tones plus Hammonds, Rhodes and ultra realistic samples of the entire symphony orchestra
You’re missing a lot here. Vintage synths and drum machines are a good investment aside from sounding amazing. For example I purchased a mint Linndrum in 2015 for $1400 and it’s now worth over 6k. Nine out of ten new synths will only decline in value over time. Also most vintage synths are made with far superior craftsmanship than new synths coming out of China. All the new moog stuff is coming out of China. Most of the new roland stuff is made out of plastic. In the late 90’s most companies stopped releasing schematics and therefore most new synths are also not easily serviced if there’s a problem. Where a Juno 106 or a minimoog will ALWAYS be serviceable.
Interesting perspective. Thanks for the comment.
I bought a near mint condition Jupiter-8 in 2012 for just under $7,000. I still kick myself to this day for wasting so much money.
Just my two cents... if resale value is your deciding factor for buying a synth, you're kinda missing the point. Especially if you're passing up a synth that you like more but won't buy because it "won't hold its value".
Surface mount discrete analog tech is quite reliable nowadays.
I don’t think very many people buy synths just because of its resale value. There are much faster ways to make a return on your money. But you are absolutely right.
I'm glad you included the Juno. One oscillator and no osc-sync?! The only thing going for it is the interface. Gotta love the one knob per function.
Agreed, and I own one. Appreciate the comment.
Thank you for saying it. I'd also add the Korg Poly-800. Got 'em both. It's like someone performed the Jedi mind trick on people. They're just not that good. Just use your ears. They're OK at best. Nice chorus on the Juno, but you can get a better chorus from a pedal at a fraction of the cost - and you can use it on other synths. The Juno earned its reputation for its ease of programming and roadworthiness. I won't go into the Poly-800, except to say it was a beginner poly(?)synth at almost modest prices in the 80s. Today, I wouldn't touch it for more than $250. At $300, there are better options that aren't 40 years old.
I own a Juno 60. Got it for next to nothing (under $200) from someone that had no idea what it was and just wanted it gone. I probably would never have the desire to own one otherwise… not at what they sell for out there today.
"the only thing going for it" ... indeed. But really, interface is king. There's a lot to be said for immediately usable sounds that can hardly go wrong. That said: there's really no call for today's near-deification of the Juno -- except perhaps as antidote to the more-more-more choices available in today's softsynths
How you want to achieve OSC Sync with one oscillator?
Couldn't agree more. I have a Shruthi-1 with SMR-4MKII filter. This synth can emulate any MOOG, or Roland sound, plus digital waveforms, for a well rounded synth. Only payed 200.00 dollars for this synth, plus forty bucks shipping, it is brand new. I have already created many patch's and I am thinking of purchasing an additional one with a different flavor filter. I might even purchase a Michigan Synth Works XENA Synth, they are only $435.00 out the door. Cheers!
That's an unusual synth. Very cool that you can see inside the device through the case. Thanks for the comment.
@@JeffreyScottPetro Old design, incredible sounding mono synth for the money. You can order different types of filters for the Shruthi-1, and Ambika synths, like the SMR-4 filter, a Polivoks filter, a 4PM filter, and a Dual SVF filter design. The (Ambika synth), same heritage as the Shruthi-1 is a polyphonic version, with six voice cards. Old designs really with very modern applications. Check them out my friend, pretty nice value in my humble opinion. Cheers!
Just because it has the same filter doesn’t mean it sounds the same. My Pro One sounds way different than my other CEM based synths including the Prophet 5.
But other than that the shruthi is cool synth.
Casio VL Tone was the best - Dah, DAh, Dah. I have it now as a VSTI
LOL. A video you may be interested in will go public on May 7, 2024.
The SH-101/Juno 106 were great for me from a learning standpoint, but honestly? My Minilogue ticks most of those boxes. Most of my synths can and are emulated just as well in software, but I do really enjoy playing with them cost-effectiveness be damned. The big Casios (VZ and CZ) are just shockingly fun to play with even though, as digital synths, software can do the job just fine.
Yeah. As much as I love all the new fancy stuff I own, I still have a few classics that I love to play and could never sell.
It IS fun to play the real instruments. Some I have, some others, I can only imagine (with the help of my computer and my Fantom 8). It's good to be playing keyboards in 2024.
Very good comment on various synthesizers, congrats. :-) I am a person who was in his early 20ies when the first affordable synthesizers became available. Apart from my Rhodes Mark I piano I owned only three originals (plus some periphery): a Crumar Multiman S, a Roland Jupiter-4 and a Roland SH-1. With these I have been able to write and record beautiful songs (on tape). I still own the SH-1 which is about 45 years old now, of course it requires some maintenance but I would not sell it because I love it so much and it is very rare. When I sold my Jupiter-4 a couple of years ago, which was still fully functional at that time, I did so because I felt I had heard it all of what the synthesizer was capable of, even though it sounded richer than the Jupiter-8 which I could not afford at those early days but of course would have liked to own. For the sum I obtained from the sale I purchased a (physical) Hammond organ (SK2) in order to be able to write songs in the style of Deep Purple. Nowadays I am using a plethora of software synth of all kinds, mostly and preferably the physically modelled re-makes of their precursors, avoiding the sampled ones. And I am completely satisfied with this option. Owning the originals may on one hand be costly if you can acquire one and on the other hand you can count the time when there will arise some electrical or mechanical malfunction. I guess in the end it is not worth it. (/from Germany)
I really enjoyed hearing that history. Thanks for the comment.
This is a really good and justified list of the Synth-Lore overhyped units. The exception is the MINI MOOG at number 6. The car equivalent is a classic Corvette Corvette. The architecture and signal flow is outstanding and still is extremely sexy.
Appreciate your comment, sir.
Finally. Somebody said it.
Side note: how the TB-303 didn't make the list - as much as I love it - is mental 😀
I have SEVEN TB-303 clones and their total price is still less than an original. One model is actually FUN to program!
Appreciate the comment. This is just one list... more to come.
Nothing sounds like a 303 though 😂
2 303s don't even sound alike 😂
I would happily put a large pile of cash on 99.99% of synth enthusiasts not being able tell the difference between a HW 303 and the Roland Cloud VST in a mix, let alone your average punter. @@TheBroDotTV
Ahhh, the rave fart machine....I have a Ballon that makes those noises
100% agree on the Juno 106. Juno 60/6 sounds way better and it's not even close. I also think that the JX series is underrated.
I like that you go straight to the matter and do not belabor the point. Thank you
Thanks, appreciate the comment.
I got myself a Jupiter 8, Juno 106 and JX-3P in a box with the System 8, I hope these will last me longer than their Analog versions. Still got heaps of control, but hopefully none of the analog issues. 🤞 Cool video and list!
Thanks, appreciate the support.
I'm telling you, man... you're BRAVE, rational, down to earth, objective and solid. Most youtubers can't even have two of these together, think of Dr.Mix and the like. I'm a synth fan since the early 90s and yes... most of my acquaintances get crazy about overhyped synths and pay an absurd amount of money for very old machines they can't even program or configure. I'm a hardware person anyway, engineer and designer. Count me in your fan club. Far greetings from Chile, Southamerica.
Finally someone has the balls to say what many of us really think!
I'm not always going to say things that everyone will like. I understand that if I wanted my channel to be more popular, I should sound like a used car salesman and tell people that everything is amazing. Keep a lookout for my Halloween episode. It's just for fun, but some people may be upset. Thank you for your support, it is appreciated.
Always nice to hear opinions about synths. You are obviously very knowledgeable about the subject. Keep em coming!
Thanks, will do!
prophet 5. best synth I ever used on productions, wether it's the old one or the rev4
Thanks for the comment.
Agreed. Swiss Army knife..
Even on today’s standards. Prophet 5 is king.
Prophet 5 is amazing, but today I would go with the Take 5. I have both and they can sound almost identical but I prefer the T5, because it has the features the Prophet is missing like Stereo, SubOSC, 2 Lfos, Mod Matrix, Overdrive, Panning ( you have Voice Spread as a Mod Source, very cool).
I don’t even miss the 61 Keys because of the clever octave split.
The only stuff the T5 is missing is the amazing Poly Unison, but the stereo stuff alone makes the T5 sound more appealing.
@@neolepicI don’t get this stereo stuff. I just record the same sound twice and use the panorama button.👍🏿
Regarding the CS80 - the Arturia software version is so fun to play with!
I have played with it too. It is fun. Appreciate the comment.
Try the Cherry Audio version. It's cheap and even better!
This was fun. I was strapped in for no reason it seems. I can't find any fault in your list, and I agree that you could have made a list of 31 overhyped synths, and if you really wanted to, you could extend that to a much higher number by including synths being released today. I especially agree with your views on modular systems, and I say that as a sound designer and musician of more years than I'd care to admit.
One point to make here is the "nostalgia effect" that many synth buyers with a little too much extra cash fall victim to, which is an altogether different thing than the desire for analog sounding or perhaps true analog vintage synths, and not quite the same as GAS. Moog and other classic synth manufacturers have done quite well for themselves capitalizing on our collective nostalgia in the past decade or two. My first synth was a Roland Alpha Juno, which I spent countless hours playing in the late 80s. I loved that synth at the time, and I still miss it, nostalgically, but I'm not going to buy one today. I can replicate all of it easily with my more modern synths.
On the other hand, some people are collectors. They don't typically play the synths they own. They see these vintage synths as investments to resell, or as gear to brag about owning or having once owned. And this brings me to the point why I wanted to write this comment. None of these vintage synths or any of today's synths will make anyone a better musician. They won't magically improve your tracks. Besides, good musicians can make music with almost any piece of kit, new or old.
I'm almost done. LOL. Sorry for the long comment. I have three hardware Wavestations (2 EXs and 1 A/D) that I will never sell for any reason. They have all needed repair over the past 30 years -- screens, power supplies, a broken key. But to me they are priceless and still sound amazing today, and I'm quite comfortable editing them without software. In fact, I can't bear using a computer to make music or do sound design. That's a rant for another day.
Glad I found your channel. :)
Glad you found it too. Thanks for the comment.
I have another I'd add to the list - the Roland MKS-80 (Super Jupiter). If they'd actually stuck a Jupiter-8 into a rackmount case with the same discrete Roland filters, I might feel differently, but that's not what they did, plus you'll need to bank on dropping another couple of thousand for the MPG-80 to go with it.
Ok. I did get a bit “butt hurt” by your choices but I see your point. The legendary status attached to these originals far outweighs their usefulness against more flexible, more reliable stuff developed later with the benefit of 40+ years of technological advancement. Obvious really. And I’m on board, I have Hydrasynth which I know is more capable than a CS-80, and a System 8 for all things ancient and Roland. Why do I still crave the old stuff though? I’d love to see a 21st century version of this list. My #1? Everything Nord…
I've actually created a 21st century list. I haven't recorded it yet, and I feel it would just upset a bunch of people. Thanks for the comment.
@@JeffreyScottPetro 🤣 Go on, you know you want to…
Is my semi-modular semi overhyped?
LOL.
Kinda 😂
I agree with almost all of this, but... I absolutely LOVE the sound of the Prophet 5. I love the interface/workflow. I love the limitations. I learned synths on a rev.2 back in 1980 so I recognize the emotional tie. I do NOT love it enough to pay for one and use VSTs instead. However, IF Behringer pull off a decent clone...
The prophet 5 is a classic. Thanks for the comment.
Two synth I have had that I'd add... Teisco 60f, single oscillator with a week 12db filter. I put a 2:1 compressor between the filter and VCF which helped to beef it up a bit but it was still not very good. It is build like a tank! But the sliders are prone to dirt ingress, So, if you buy one, check the sliders first and keep it covered when not in use. The other is a rare animal, syntrack by Spectral Audio. A one trick pony only any good for bass. One good thing about it is that the few controls it has all recieve//send midi. It has an 18db low pass filter that sounds reather thin (I would put that down to the LM13700 used in the filters) I have seen both on eBay/Reverb going for silly prices. Personally, I would not want to pay more that £250 for each of them.
Thanks for the info. I've seen the Teisco but never had a chance to play one.
"I can understand why it costs more than a Ford Pinto". 😂😂😂😂 ROFL! I love it! FINALLY, someone who speaks my language! I think I'm in love. 😊 This is such a practical video. And you didn't even mention the tuning instabilities of the Memorymoog. I used an Xpander at a studio once. It was OK, but I actually thought it was pretty limited. A bandmate had a Prophet 5. I hated that screechy thing. Many of the synths on this list I have Arturia versions of, and I rarely use them. And don't even get me started on Modular. I'm a songwriter. I don't have time to waste noodling around on something like that. And that's all I ever hear people do on those things on social media: noodle. Not one catchy melody ever comes out of what I hear online. Thanks for being a voice of reason.
Thanks for the comment.
This is the number one thing synth collectors don't want to hear.
Indeed. Thanks for the comment.
Hi, this may be more of a ‘complex’ list to make but…what would be cool is if someone would make a list of the best current keyboards (less than 15 yrs old) that emulates the older vintage ones! I know Behringer has been busy with that & Aturia makes great soft synth versions but if I wanted a reasonably priced ‘clone’ version of a Juno 106 or Jupiter 8 or CS-80 or minimoog? That would be cool to have as a reference. Just an FYI….
Thanks for the suggestion. I have been working a few months on a video that may offer a less expensive option to the Jupiter 8. I hope to have it done by the summer.
Based on what you wrote, I would say "search no more".. The Behringer DeepMind 12 is what you need.
Loved this video! I agree with all your points, and also believe that they extend to software emulations of the synths on your list; 99% of the time, I end up using general "all-around" softsynths (like Surge XT and Vital, or even stock DAW synths), rather than reach for a Juno or CS-80-emulating plugin. Because their GUIs are minimalistic and don't simulate a hardware synth panel, it's easier and faster for me to dial in the sound that I want. I do find modular synth sofware super fun, though! Would you make a video comparing the "big leagues" of synth emulation (G-Force, IK Multimedia, Arturia, Cherry Audio, Softube etc.)? I'm especially curious to know what you think about Syntronik, since it's a ROMpler that plays round-robin samples from the original hardware, rather than a "regular" synth plugin.
Appreciate the comment.
I agree with most of what you say, especially the Juno 106, I have to chuckle every time i see someone with one of those in their setup.. its like they all seem to have to have one because of the hype, I owned one for around 30 years, used it at first as it was the only poly synth I had at the time, and I did enjoy it due to it being one of the only synth's I owned at the time, but it ended up standing against a wall in the corner as I bought more capable machines, when I finally decided to let some synth's go, I considered selling my 106 and my humble Novation K-Station, so out of curiosity I rigged them both up to see what one was the better machine in my eyes, after playing the few sounds I liked on the 106, I could easily create extremely similar sounds on the K-Station, and I mean really really similar, but apart from the K-Station having a smaller keyboard, it really was far superior, not the sort of thing a 106 fan boy would like to hear I suppose, and I've had a few angrily tell me that the K-Station is a toy compared to the 106, I think owning the 106 for so long gives me plenty of time to realise its extremely over hyped, and if you're considering one, pick up a Novation K-Station, KS, Nova II etc, they are far superior, and can sound far better with far more capability, even though they are all virtual analogue, you will also save a huge amount of money.. also the Deepmind 12/6 is far superior to the 106, if it has to be genuinely analogue vco's in your mind, the 106 is very basic compared to a Deepmind, and you could probably buy 3 or more second hand Deepmind 12's for the cost of one overpriced 106.. please don't listen to the hype.. oh and I still have my humble K-Station, great little machine, the 106 is long gone, now relax and play some synth!
Interesting, thanks for sharing.
Minimoog - i bought a Behringer Model D, because i want the VCF, and it was cheeper on EBay than a VST.
Glad you’re brave enough to call out the model D. People that own Voyagers always get made fun of because “ha but it’s not a model D” meanwhile the Voyager is over 1000 times more capable
Thanks, appreciate your comment.
I agree with most of the list. But Juno 106? Come on. Thin? 😅
I got mine since end of 90th (yes, now I have to replace the chips) and most of the time I had to dial it back in a mix as it's too powerful. The transient and bass pressure is huge. And the harmonics it has in higher frequencies always cuts through the mix, no matter what you do with it. The filter is awesome, especially when mistreated for experimentation. A kind of is own.
There are some VST emulations but they all are very undefined, weak and flat in comparison - even Softube's version.
Nymphes is a great sounding hardware alternative but it doesn't make the character of the 106 redundant.
Which monitor speakers are you listening on? Cheers.
Of course anything could be somewhat replicated with software but what hardware mono and poly synths do you recommend for people that prefer hardware ?
I recommend you try a bunch and buy what you like. What I like, may not be what you like. Folks, sometimes ask me if I like Synth A and Synth B, and I give them my opinion. In several of my episodes I have specifically stated that I'm not recommending any specific product. I give my opinion and other info, and it's up to the viewer to decide. I've been offered sponsorship for the channel, and I've turned it down, because I didn't believe in the product. If a company with a product I love offers me a sponsorship deal, I'll accept it, but that hasn't happened yet. Thanks for your comment.
Most (if not all) classic synth sounds can be recreated by skilful synth programmer, either in software, or in modern workstation synths like Korg or Kurzweil But you cannot re-create physical experience. Some people love to stick patch cords into the commutation board, and only true modular synth can offer this experience .
Agreed. I've said that in several videos. You can duplicate the sound in software, but it's not the same experience. Behringer hardware clones have changed some of that, yet even at their affordable prices, some folks can't swing it and opt for software.
I feel like I dodged a bullet by not basing my studio around analog synths. Nothing against them, but i found there are so many good digital options that can do much more for the money. I still plan on trying out the pro-800 tho.
The difference is really prominent when you are physically in front of the instrument, hearing it in the room. Once we mix this stuff together, the magic is EQ'ed out. 😄
Kinda furthers my point@@HazeAnderson
The Pro 800 is a steal. Great synth.
Having owned several of the synths on this list I can say with (subjective) certainty that there is indeed a difference between the hardware and software versions. The real thing sounds bigger and more 3D than their software counterparts. But the argument you’re making about that difference vs cost and reliability is a valid one. Btw Roland’s plug out versions of their classic synths- used in hardware-sound excellent and are remarkably faithful to the originals
Appreciate the comment, sir.
That E-mu modular looks gorgeous. Wouldn't mind to own it in spite of all its overhypeness 😍
Okay, whats the verdict on matrix 12?
I own a small eurorack ensemble. For me, it's simply a lot of nostalgia, because i grew up in the 70ies and 80ies with Tangerine Dream and Klaus Schulze (Berlin School stuff). And to be honest, in a practical point of view, it makes no sense. But it's FUN.
Love TD, appreciate the comment.
Berhinger has pretty much killed a lot of the resale value of these synths like the Model D and ProVS.
A very respectful but honest assessment of some vintage classics, you get so much more reliability, flexibility and potential in modern synths available today...sorry if that upsets the old school fetishists
Thank you, sir. As I said in the video, I love it, but way overhyped.
I was just talking about this with a friend the other night. It’s really about price-to-performance ratio.
I paid $300 for my Matrix 1000 (24 years ago) and that was a great deal. Totally worth it. Would I pay $600 or more for one? Absolutely not. As you said, for the price they fetch today, you could get something much more useful.
The CS-80 is heavy, unreliable, and costs more than many luxury cars…it would possibly be more practical to own if it wasn’t for the over-inflated price. There is nothing about it that can justify a price tag that huge. I already felt that way when they were going for $10k…and that was long long ago!
Ditto the Jupiter 8. It’s a lovely synth, sits in a mix nicely, but it absolutely does not warrant the gigantic asking price. There are plenty of ways to get close to that sound without selling a kidney.
Really that’s the deal with most of the things on your list - they’re legendary, have been used on lots of records, but the hype has outstripped their usefulness. As the price goes up and up, they become less and less appealing.
I still consider the Minimoog the king of synths, but its incredibly limited feature set is not worth the many thousands they fetch nowadays. I paid $3500 for mine, still the most expensive instrument I own, and I used to take it to all my gigs…it sure does look cool sitting up there, but it’s just not worth the risk anymore since they have only gone up in value. I use a Behringer D now onstage and no one has ever complained about the sound being inferior…
I don’t really get why people are so nuts over the Juno-106. The Juno-6/60 sounds better imho although it’s missing a few features. Back in the late 90s my friend bought a Juno-6 for a few hundred bucks and I thought it was “just ok”…I was an analog junkie and thought it sounded thin. Which, in a way, it does. He willed it to me and it’s been a staple in my studio since he passed in 2020. I’ve grown to love the Juno sound…it’s nothing fancy , very predictable, but just works in a mix so well. Hard to make a Juno sound bad. But I would never buy one for what they go for today!
Totally agree... price to performance is a great way to look at it. Appreciate the comment.
Same. I bought one back in the 90s for, I believe, $240 or so. That was a great purchase at the time. I remember the salesman saying, "Well, if you want something low priced, we have a bunch of these for sale. They're not bad."
Moog is pronounced with a long "o" vowel, not "oo" like with a moo cow. It's 'moog" like "moan". Bob Moog used to mention how people didn't know how to pronounce his name. It's German, and was originally spelled Mohg.
For years I had a pin badge, from the Moog stand at a UK music show, that read "Moog rhymes with Vogue".
No, also in Germany this name is spelled Moog.
@@profpep Cool badge!
Actually, there is no exact English equivalent pronunciation to Moog in German. The rhyme to "Vogue" (another comment) isn't it! The "straight and open ending" long/double o vowel in German is just not present in English. English does always bend the o/oo to something else... 🥴
Since the release of this video, I have seen Reverb prices drop over 25%. I replaced most of my vintage analogs with modern reissues such as a Prophet 10, OBX8, Model D 2016 reissue. These will be easy to repair in the future. I did hang on to the Juno 60, they are reliable and nothing I have heard sounds like that amazing chorus. And yes, I have a 106 which has new voice chips and is near mint, I think it sounds great, especially for spacey pads.
LOL. Great comment, thanks.
Agree on the modular rabbit hole. I still have a rack and I've spent thousands on modules. It was fun and a learning experience but they really are not that great and a huge time killer looking for that perfect new sound. I can go over to any of my other hardware synths and dial up a new sound that is better in a fraction of the time. Getting a analogue synth with extensive patching matrices are incredibly versatile for sound design and cost a fraction of the money and a whole lot less time patching.
Thanks for the comment.
I did a Brian Eno and exclusively used the DX7 for a while now. For some reason I like programming the DX7 more than using analog synths.
You are brave. It's been a while since I programmed a DX7 patch from scratch. Thanks for the comment.
@@JeffreyScottPetro I think it's mostly using my ears to hear if the sound I wanted is coming close to what I want in my head. I never really learned about all the EG rate, keyboard scaling etc. I just kept tweaking.
@@JeffreyScottPetroit was my first synth, I was 15 at the time. I didn't find it particularly hard to program but kinda hard to get useful sounds
The Prophet-5 is obviously useful, as it’s been re-issued.
The synths on your list fetch big bucks because they are revered and scarce.
In the late 90s and early 2000s I paid what would be today considered bargain prices for all these synths but that put a big dent in my pocketbook at the time ( yes I had a working CS 80) and, with the exception of the Xpander ( the mutimode filter, lfo and envelope options make it still useful today imo) I agree with this generally- Had a linntronics memorymoog as well-they are all gone- do not miss them . Interestingly, I do miss my polyevolver.. BTW as Bob said "it's Moog as in Rogue"
Thanks, and I know about Bob's name. Part of a European upbringing. I often say Gah-rage and not Ger-rage and a bunch of other words, even after all these years. Some folks lost their mind in the comments. At least you were polite. Appreciate the comment.
I never understood the hype around the Minimoog. It's so. . . basic. Also, I'm genuinely surprised the Yamaha DX-7 wasn't on this list. Agree 100% with the modular synths.
I was wondering if the DX7 would make the list as well. Of course it's a legendary synth, but there's really not anything a DX7 can do that can't be done in a VST or a Raspberry Pi running MiniDexed for far less money. For anyone still pondering a DX7 purchase, I'd suggest instead considering an SY-77/TG-77, or better yet, an SY-99.
would this list be the same if prices in the used market were how they were in 2014, got my 106 for $450 for example, wasn't disappointed
Thanks for the question. On person that commented suggested that it can be a price compared to utility ratio evaluation, and I think there is merit to that suggestion. The answer to your question could be yes to some degree, but this video is not just about price, it's more about the halos that follow the gear around. I have another video that is coming up in a month or two that specifically evaluates on price. I think some of the gear here gets hit a second time, and there is other ancillary studio gear, not just electronic instruments. Thanks for the comment.
Behringer Deepmind 12 - underrated Synthezier 😎
My first synth as a kid was a Yamaha DX21 and boy was that a mistake...I didn't know what FM synthesis was and this synth proved to be a learning experience! I yearned for more than 4ops, and so years later, I had the money to get a used DX7 FDII. Now *THAT'S* a synth! I had that for years and played that a lot. 6 ops opened up a completely new world of FM synthesis! To get my feet wet into subtractive analog synthesis, I purchased a Deepmind 12 a few years ago. After cutting my teeth on FM synthesis, I never realized how easy subtractive synsthesis is! So I started getting addicted to the Korg Volca systems...what a fun bunch of synths! And don't get me started on that NTS-1!
Cool story, thanks for sharing.
I was with you all the way except for the Prophet 5. That keyboard is pure magic like no other. Agree with all your other choices as I've owned many of them (minimoog, Matrix 12, Juno, etc).
Appreciate the comment, sir.
I applaud you for saying it. I wouldn't want to own an actual CS80. I've seen what's inside of there and have heard how fragile beasties they are. I'm happy with the emulation of it from Cherry Audio and the version I built in PureData. Took me a month and lots of study and poring over the manual and any technical docs I could find. The filter envelope was a revelation and I've generalized that approach when making synths in software. I learned so much from the CS80.
Also, absolutely adore the Jupiter 8 and TAL makes a loving recreation in the TAL J-8. One of my favorites. Also, the SQ8L (Ensoniq SQ80) is an old version, but sounds great. I've got a big collections of the classics in software. And that's good, because I don't have the budget for anything else than the software versions, many of them free. There's also Osiris, an emulation of the Access Virus B and C. They emulated the DSP chip and Osiris uses the (end user supplied) ROMs from the Virus.
I have had the opportunity to play a couple of Dave Smith instruments and they were lovely. So expressive and immediate, but again, unobtanium for my budget. Inspiration for when I'm doing sound design and creating expressive patches with lots of dimensions
And the modular -- whoo what a money sink they could be. Unless your wife builds a book case of modules for a few hundred dollars. Lots of fun and enjoyment and pride for her to have made an instrument like that. But most of the practical modular stuff I use is VCV as a CLAP plugin in my DAW. Unlimited modules, essentially free.
I love sound design, I love composing and studying classic synths has taught me a lot. But I'll save my money. Maybe a Korg WaveState. That's something in reach. Or a UB-Xa for that polyphonic aftertouch keyboard and classic Oberheim sound. Those filters! and multi-timbrality, like the Jupiter and the CS-80. So that's where SurgeXT gets that idea, from all the classic powerhouses of yesteryear, wink wink.
Appreciate the comment.
Synthesizers are made for playing them🎹🎹🎹, not for waiting worth more money.
I stopped investing in old synths because of money. I bought newer synths and play them almost every day🎹🎹🎹
I can’t be mad about your #1 pic, but purely for sound design it’s so fascinating like you said. So far the only semi-modular gear I have is the Behringer Neutron and that box packs a massive punch for the price. My pipe dream is to build a stage rack full of modular synths that I can wheel around to gigs and control with a master keyboard like a Fantom, or even a controller like the Keylab. Redundant? Yes. Exciting? Also yes. Lol
I Sounds like a plan. Thanks for the comment.
I'm curious what a hardware M1, D50 or Wavestation offers that the software versions don't, considering that these are entirely digital internally except for the DAC. Whereas software versions of genuine analogue are harder to reproduce. (Disclaimer: I own only two analog synths: the mopho and the bass station, and don't use them that much.)
I recently purchased a Roland Jupiter X, I can’t imagine buying a Jupiter/Juno for tens of thousands of dollars.
I agree with you on all points. About 10 years ago, I started collecting the Nord Lead series and never looked back. To my ears, they are remarkable. I don’t know how they do it. and this is coming from someone who’s owned a number of vintage analogs. And (thanks to a friend), I even had a Jupiter-8 in my home for three months. It was a cool experience, but after about 3 days I was like, meh.. The thing also weighs a ton and became frighteningly hot after about 10 minutes of use. I was terrified that it was going to blow up on my watch. I think it’s not so much the synth as it is. (It’s who played them, and what recordings they were featured on). In other words “synth lore”.
Thanks for the comment.
Great informative video, Jeffrey! Btw, Moog is pronounced like "rogue."
I was in a trip-hop band in the 1990s, and we were blown away by how good the SH-101 sounded in our tracks, so you can imagine how excited we were when I found a Juno 6 for £250 and brought it in.
We were all really disappointed at how thin it sounded.
As for modular…I don’t know, I think it’s for people who enjoy giving themselves IQ tests? It’s like the plot of Lord of The Rings, but in synth form!
Interesting comment, thanks.
As much as I love some of these synths on the list, I totally get your argument and take no offense whatsoever, in fact i respect it and see you point of view. Thank you for your honest opinion 🙏
Thanks, appreciate the comment. BTW, cool screen name.
You pronounce Moog the way I pronounced Moog before I was browbeaten by a cadre of remote synth scholars on the internet, ah the memories of the before times are delicious in such weird ways. Juno 106 was the first synth on my mind, glad to see it in the winner's circle.
...thanks for the comment.
The whole vintage keyboard pricing is ridiculous. I have the new versions of the prophet 10 and ob-x8 I guess mainly because I owned the originals when they first came out and it’s a nostalgia thing for me. Yes those sounds can be duplicated at a fraction of the price I paid and honestly I don’t play them on gigs but for some reason I like having them in my possession. I agree with you on the memory moog. It sounds incredible when it’s working but back when they came out it was so unreliable that I passed on it and bought an OBXa instead. The voyetra 8 is another example similar to the memory moog. Software certainly has come along way and will continue to improve. Finally the Juno 106. Wow that keyboard never sounded great even when new and was a poor man’s attempt at a Jupiter 8. The chorus really is the only thing that makes it fat. And perhaps the sub oscillator. That poly synth brass sound and its variation can be so easily well reproduced with numerous vst’s etc. and I would say this is the most overhyped keyboard of them all.
Thanks, Daniel. Appreciate the thoughtful comment.
I have to agree with this video.
Although these synths (and others) were amazing when they first came out, they're almost mythical today because of the great music made using them.
If we could go back in time and give the younger Vangelis (my favourite synth wizard) any good recent synth, he would certainly use it in an amazing way, and that synth would also become an icon.
Many of these synths were great a doing some sounds, and terrible at everything else.
But those iconic sounds were an integral part of many great songs and great artists, and those sounds couldn't be replicated by anything else at that point in time.
We can love it or hate it, but even the Korg M1 introduced some specific sounds due to its inability to produce something like a realistic acoustic piano.
Despite that, it was widely used by manu artists, and that was part of the sound of the early 90's.
I remember having the M1 for a weekend when it came out, and it sounded amazing.
I ended up buying the SY 77 in 1990 (which I still own), and despite having its own strengths against the M1, it never became so iconic as the M1, maybe because it sounded more natural and less "fresh" and bold than the older and less expensive M1.
The M1 became the icon, while the SY 77 was mostly forgotten, and I can understand why. 😉
And that's also why I believe that no other synth will ever get the iconic status like so many synths on this video, and many others which weren't mentioned.
It's virtually inpossible for any synth to stand out ever again in the music history, since most of them are on a insanely high level of sound quality, the competition comes from several brands (both in hardware and software), making it harder to even guess which synth was used in any given song.
Then there's the whole hardware vs software question, and even in the early 90's, if you wanted the sound of the Korg Wavestation, you had to buy it!
Today, we have not only the vst version of it, but also the Wavestate released both as a plugin and hardware versions.
I understand why Korg (and so many others) released both versions at the same time, and the advantages of software synths for some applications.
But I also feel that it makes the hardware version feel less special than it could be, even if any digital synth was (at its core) a CPU running a custom software for producing sounds, many of them based on much smaller sample sizes than we already have on software synths for quite some time.
But in the end, sounds were only as great as what artists did with them musically, and the difference between a $5000 dollar synth and a $400 dollar plugin isn't remotely similar to what it was on hardware synths 30 years ago.
Those vintage synths sounded unique in a magnitude thar will never be possible again.
I would love to own a CS 80, Jupiter 8 (and many others), although I doubt that I'd use them a lot, for how limited they are today.
Cool stuff, thanks for sharing.
Put Octave Plateau Voyetra 8 on this list. I had one in 1990. Final version [ ver3?] with midi in/out. Oscillator wave form tone is very good and the 3 space rack looks way cool. But be ready to live with it's 12 bit digital envelopes with their inherent stair-step and zippering sound.
Plus the fact that they cost a fortune if you can find one. I never owned one, but got to spend some extended quality time with one back in 1984. They're really neat synths and sound good, but ultimately yet another variation on the Curtis/SSM sound, IMO. They were also a royal pain when it came to editing patches.
@@stevepreskitt283
And. . . the envelope slopes were more linear than logorithmic, which means that the decay and release never sounded quite musical or natural.
Most sensible synth video that I've seen on TH-cam in a long time--maybe ever. If you have a PC or iPad, than you have far more sonic resources than any of these will give you for less money. Old Korgs like the Mono/Poly, MS-20 and MicroKorg and anything that ARP ever made also belong on this list. I'd add the EMS Synthi A/AKS/VCS3 too. Analog snobs are like Rolex watch collectors. They enjot the rareity, cost and exclusivity of their items. But they don't perform their basic function any better than equivalents that cost a tiny fraction as much--and often with more utility and functions. I got my first Moog in the 70's and I have zero desire to go back to that era.
Appreciate the comment.
Sorry, but the MS-20 doesn't. None of the emulations even come close to the hardware for that one. Own the hardware and can compare it. Not even the hardware Behringer K2 sounds like the original! Just listen to Starsky Carr which does very good comparisons!
The Prophet 5, Mini Moog, Pro 1. Juno 106, Jupiter 8 are almost perfectly emulated in software though.
@Magnus_Loov Could be. I've never owned an MS-20 and always used emulation, including the Kronos. Idoi know that they're respected for the8r raw, dirty sound, so that might be hard to get right. On the whole, though, VSTs continue to improve and that's definitely where I see the trend going.
New to your channel. For the new comers with money burning holes in your pockets, listen to this guy.
Aside from my sound design interests virtual analog has come a long way and the Roland System 1m gives me the best of both in a simple straight forward board with all the hands on control I could ask for.
I've had a 106. It kept blowing voice chips to the point that I got rid of it. My first synth was aJen SX1000. I still have it. Very basic but it gave me a good introduction to using synths. I also had a SCI Pro one in the early 80's. That got sold to fund a garage bill. I recently bought the Behringer clone of it. It's amazing. I also have a Novation Mininova which for such a cheap little synth is capable of emulating so many of the old classic analogues.
Thanks for sharing!
Hi Jeff. I agree wholeheartedly with your assessments. Of course there are nuances to the values placed on vintage gear but, for most, ( unless you can burn through $ ) it’s not practical nor wise. These “ synth lore “ instruments are not a prudent investment in general. If you’ve noticed, whenever someone mentions “ CS-80” what do we think of immediately? Not the sound or music creation process but, the $. That right there can tell you where everyone’s ( and I speak hyperbole ) mind is.
I bought my CS-80 new in 1980. $4400. I toured with it for a couple of decades with little to no problems. I think I was lucky. Prog was king and it sat atop the CP70, along side the B3 w/ L 147 cab, Mini and D6. The other side was the Roads and Profit 600. Quite backbreaking for the first 10ys. Once in top 40, I ended up storing all this and scaled back to a DW8000, D50, Mirage, DX2FD then, VFX , TS-10, XP-50, and finally, the Motif 6, King Korg, BS2 and Hydrasynth. Now, some of these and a bunch of B clones, Mofo, and a Tr8s sit atop the studio desk w/pedals and a couple of DAW’s. Point is; smaller and happier through the years to date.
I did notice that the “ synth hype “ gained its meteoric rise once online auctions such as EBay took off because remember, just a mere few years earlier, these super synths were at garage sale prices - in the hundreds.
The CS-80 always has a soft spot. It inspired me to new heights but, increasingly lost its appeal due to its limitations and sound capabilities. imho. Popular You Tubers such as Dave Spiers and the guys on Sonic Talk etc. can attest to this sentiment. Personally, I think that the lesser CS models offer a lot more fun, sound and variety for today’s contemporary music and better bang for buck.
P.S: I still have some left but sold the 80 years ago to get into a mortgage. I wouldn’t advise anyone to buy synths for the $ investment but for enjoying their music making and, keeping it simple. It’s a different time we live in and soon we’ll have to contend with a housing bubble. Everything else follows.
Thanks for your opinion Jeff. It does shed light.
Sounds like great memories and some very nice gear. Thanks for sharing.
Agree 💯 got tired of trying to find parts.
Me too, thanks for the comment, Rob.
Also noticed string mashines & paraphonic are underpriced compareble to synth. Thay can much more on a stage and not easy to substitute.
Hi Jeff, greetings from Liverpool UK!!
As a very long standing synth lover and player I found this video incredibly interesting indeed!!
Being as you mentioned almost all the classics here, just wondering which synths you wouldn't deem overhyped??
Arp Odyssey, Oberheim OBXa, Alesis Andromeda, Moog Polymoog, Korg M1, PPG Wave,
Korg Polysix, Roland Jupiter 4, Access Virus, Roland SH101, SCI Pro One and Roland Juno 60 weren't mentioned, so I'm guessing it might be those??
Just have to say that I owned a Yamaha DX7 briefly around 1989 and really wasn't impressed at all,
after dreaming of owning one for so long, wow, what an anti-climax!!
I sold it a few months later and bought a Roland D50 which was much more in line with what I believed a good synth should be!!
Hi Andre... birthplace of the Beatles, that's awesome: I would say the M1, DX7, D-50, and Wavestation, are not overhyped. They're also relatively affordable for older keyboards. I see you are not a fan of the DX7. I'm a fanboy of the DX7, but I respect your opinion, we all have our favorites. I love the D-50 too, used to have two D-550's. I need to get the one I still have fixed. Appreciate the comment.
No argument from me on your picks as there is something different for everyone. Ask 100 people for this list and you will get 100 different lists. My only comment really is... it is pronounced Moog as in rhyming with Rogue. Dave Luce (from Moog) taught me that in Buffalo NY. Great and interesting video!
Hey Jeff, I enjoyed watching the countdown. To your point, pretty much any hardware synth can be replicated "better than analog" these days. I think the broader question is "do we even need hardware synths anymore, especially analog synths?" Anthony Marinelli's channel has a great spot with a well-known synth designer who basically says "all keyboards are overhyped these days, and digital emulations are more analog than even analog synths." I have an OB-X8. I love that I own it. But it's the "lore" that keeps me from selling it. When I want an Oberheim sound in a mix, I pull up Diva, Dune 3, Arturia Analog Lab or Omnisphere and dial in a Oberheim sound while the real Oberheim sits on the keyboard stand with a cover over top of it. Truth!
Appreciate the comment.
Interesting post. I'd amend the subject to be more along the lines of Overhyped/Overpriced. There isn't a single bad sounding synth on the list. In fact the only bad thing about any of the synths on the list, are the prices. If you're starting out and don't mind menu diving or mouse clicking, then there are loads of cheaper alternatives than the gear you mentioned, but none will give you immediate sound sculpting access like these classics which were basically knob-per-function instruments just like drawbars on an organ.
With the almost infinite knobs/sliders/access points of modular, that's probably the only one I 100% agree with, only because if you don't understand basic synthesis fundamentals, like the OG Moog Oscillator-Filter-VCA paradigm, then a modular will likely overwhelm you. Not only are modulars typically some of the most expensive, unless you understand, and absolutely need to access the matrix of complexity they afford, you would truly be wasting your money.
Most of the gear on the list is so well sought after, they are almost, (but probably not quite) financial investments.
Interesting. Thanks for the comment.
Wholeheartedly agree to the extent that I’d include most vintage synths and, again like yourself I’ve owned/still own them. There’s an irrational allure to these that’s often based on the desire of ownership knowing that they were used on music that you loved. As human beings we make all our decisions and justify them at an emotional level and kid ourselves that we’ve done it at a rational level.
So true, the older I get, the more nostalgic I get. Thanks for the comment.
I used to be bitter that one of my friends, not sure which, swiped my Juno 106 back in '99. Now I'm grateful. The boutique does a great job and there are 5 other options in hardware and software. Even my MPC has a Juno VST.
He swiped your Juno, how rude. A lot of people love the boutique gear. Appreciate the comment.
I agree with you on these, I had a realistic MG-1 when they were new, and I can't believe that they are hot today. (I re-wired mine, installing a switch to route the "contour" voltage to filter resonance) but I get distracted by the mispronunciation of "Moog", it rhymes with "Rogue", according to Bob himself
Thanks for the comment.
Also, your number one is spot on. And that's not just me not being smart enough to use them!
LOL. Thanks for the comment.
Never really wanted to get into modular, and it seems to be an expensive route. If anyone reading this is into modular please don't throw your patch cables at me😂
@@jp4751- I started going down the modular route. Some of the sequencers are amazing. But the cost vs return is way too high so I sold the lot. No regrets 👍
I do like the hardware synths I own (3 ensoniqs, 1 korg), I've never had or likely will anything own one that's too vintage, I feel can agree with the sentiments here. When I first got into synths in around 2010, I really wanted an analogue synth from the prime era, and had my sights on getting a Chroma Polaris one day... that's long gone, would not want to own one for many reasons now, lol.
You could get a vintage hardware synth, if you're willing to deal wit their idiosyncrasies and age. I have a couple that are between 30 and 40 years old, and still do well - at least for now.
It's really about what you're after, and why you get them. VSTs are brilliant, but lack the physicality of hardware. There's something to be said for a box of which you know exactly what it'll do.
And I say this as a professional software developer: I don't really like software. It's like trying to catch the wind.
Indeed, thanks for the comment GP.
I think when most people relate to the CS80, they're actually relating to Vangelis. After having played a CS80 myself, I can safely say that the synth doesn't give you access to his powers - lol!
Doesn't mean the CS is bad by any stretch - but it's hardly essential from a synthesis standpoint, and new expressive MIDI keyboards are coming out now to rival its player-friendliness.
Exactly. Thanks for the comment.
I’ve been using, buying, and selling synths since the late 80s. I consider myself a recovered analog purist. I could not agree with you more. Every choice you made here was well warranted. ESP the modular synth placement. I look at modular as more of a tool for learning than music making. It can be done much cheaper in software and it does look cool, but that’s about it.
Great video! I agree, you can buy these classics in software for a fraction of the price. Yes the hardware may or may not sound better but software synths today offer very high value and sound quality.
Thanks for the comment.
"... to get a portion of that experience, even if it's not identical" -- spot on -- and true of most synths. Generally good advice for anything, really.
...speaking of Pat Metheny. I had always thought the lead on Last Train Home was a synth until I saw a live performance video. I remember they used that song for an Amtrak commercial... First place I heard it. Great song.
What about the Polybrute 12? It seems like a fair value for the right player to me. 👍
Adding my 2 cents worth, from the list I once owned & loved: the Mini Moog and the Roland System 700 modular. Yes, the Moog is fat and its filter is beautiful but mine drifted so much it was never used for melodies. While the System 700 was amazing! The sounds that it would create were awesome. Its osculators were solid as a rock. I sold both in the '80s. So, do I miss them? No! As the mellotron was my favourite keyboard from the era I now use only sample libraries my outboard gear like the Korg Kronos and a DX-7 gather dust.
Great history, thanks for sharing.
You forgot the Roland 808. The price it's just ridiculous comparing with other modern similar equipment
Well done, excellent presentation. In the last 4/5 years, I have found soft synths have really come into their own. For example, my Korg M1 never sounded as good as the soft synth version by Korg!
Thanks for the comment.
Which of course is not surprising since they're entirely digital inside, and Korg can thus write a perfect emulation, with improvements like polyphony.
i feel this more and more after getting a Hydrasynth and Minifreak
Poly 800 were very programmable. I used to midi two of them up. Was able to make sounds for most 80's pop songs. Great little units
Thanks for the comment.
What about the software emulation of these synth?
I will have episodes on synth plugins. I have some plugin episodes scheduled in July, but they are sample libraries- over 30 of them. Thanks for the suggestion.
@@JeffreyScottPetro i reckon that in general, your opinion on these emulation of the overhyped synths are slightly different?