Never having been on the manufacturing side of knives, I can't say I have ever had issue with any steels. I've always respected the Bohler product and you talking so highly about them from your perspective just gives me more confidence in their quality.
I don't know if I am now more excited or leery on my prepaid GSO 5.1 Magnacut order. Leery because its been well over a year since I placed this prepaid order or excited to think my perfect knife just might be getting finished before the additional years end. I do SAR work and I want my fist knife has to be that do it all knife. I also want my first Survive knife to be a perfect example. If you determine its not the metal for that perfect knife I need to know this yesterday and am open minded to a replacement, as long as I don't have to wait another year or more. Guy, I do appreciate what your seeing and the honesty you have in your concerns. I just become a little leery when "Guy the perfectionist" continues to have issues with material suppliers. I really do look forward to the day that you find that perfect metal or metals that can allow customers to have perfectly made Survive knifes made on time frames that can finally beat what a few of our local custom knife makers here in Texas can produce. Your Survive designs really appear to be well thought out and engineered to exacting applications. I have several knives made by other makers of Elmax and other Bohler metals and I think you are right on track with what your observing and experiencing. Maybe Bohler can be contracted to produce the Magnacut for you? In my case, I simply need the strongest all around corrosion/rust resistant knife that I can find for what I do but my time and needs cannot be delayed for an unknow period of time. This was a very useful video and thank you for putting this out there.
Hey, I owe you a better response but those orders are wrapping up and I 110% stand behind what leaves our shop. Most Magnacut GSO-5.1s are wrapping up and we'll continue getting more Magnacut to fulfill any remaining orders, if we're falling a little short because of these steel QC issues. Bohler has some good options in the works but in the meantime I'll be using a lot more Elmax if these CPM issues don't resolve themselves. I do apologize for the delay, but please know that we've got your back. The entire reason for moving back to Pennsylvania was to bring this all home and we're doing it. -Guy
I've mentioned this a couple of times, but the inconsistency issue with Magnacut does go back to when it was introduced. I had a couple of custom chef knives on order in Magnacut back when it was the hot new thing and the maker I was working with could not produce what I wanted because of warping issues on thinner stock knives. This seems like an odd problem to have with an alloy that was supposed to be purpose designed to satisfy the high end knife community.
The consistency speaks of quality! Number 1 looks exactly like number 1000! Incredible and the only knife company in the world that is this consistent! Cheers to Guy.
That's it right there. Having professional standards. I am very proud of the fact that we are building something this high quality together with you guys. You can take any knife from any one of our batches and mix it with any sheath and they all fit the same. I know what these materials should be, what they claim they are, and this isn't it.
Thank you for the video update. I have a GSO 5.1 Magnacut on order. Definitely keeping the faith in your company and knives. If you feel I should switch to another metal I trust your judgement completely. I certainly do not want a field failure and I know you feel the same way.
Thanks for all the updates Guy and for holding their feet to the fire! I’ve been waiting patiently for my v4 and v4.5 for over a year now so I’m hoping the magnacut steel in these knives is good to go and that they will hold up to hard use that your other knives I own hold up to!
Makes you wonder about the Magnacut sheets you're getting. Like, for the parts that do look perfect, are there any inclusions embedded into the center of the metal that aren't visible.
I used to be frustrated by the wait when I had a GSO 4.1 that took 3 years to arrive, but with the increased transparency over the last couple years, I fully support your attention to detail, focus on quality, and uncompromising standards to deliver something you can stand behind. Maybe that's partially due to being in the working world longer now and developing my own personal work standards that I try to maintain, but your communcation definitely helped. I have two Vendetta series knives preordered (1 Magnacut and the other 3V) and I think you have the blanks cut already, but at this point I wouldn't mind if you wanted to switch to Bohler steels.
Hi Guy and Ellie! Just received my decarb green Cerakote Magnacut 2.7. - Effin’ impeccable! I’m used to larger knives, but this thing is really starting to grow on me. 😊 The belly of the blade is exactly the width of my thumb, and its height is just a hair shorter than my index finger, making it a perfect size for finer tasks. I don’t bird, hunt or skin things, but this would be a great tool for that. This one will become a hold-out, carry-all, EDC woods-satchel knife. Can’t wait to put it through its paces! 😍 And you were definitely right in your earlier videos - there’s literally _nothing_ obnoxius in the new handle design. Despite the short length of the handle, everything is perfectly rounded, so there’s zero hot spots. The fit & finish is - again - fantastic. I thought I would not like the new, round spine and the slightly proud handle tang, but damn - it just works great in the hand, and seeing the round spine handle batoning in your destructive testing steel quality vid? - I fully get it now. 👍 I doubt I will be wailing on this with a steel hammer or cutting nails (😃), but rather processing light kindling, carving tent pegs, and sticks for roasting stuff over the fire. (🔥🙏) Thank you! This may be a bit controversial question to answer about Magnacut, but if you want to: these little imperfections in the Magnacut steel matrix that you’re seeing - markers of small voids, foily strips shearing off in surface grinding; just like you’re saying, from a quality perspective, don’t these compromise the whole sheet, and essentially leave all the blade manufacturers like yourself guessing? The types of inconsistencies you’re seeing in the structure of the steel, when using Magnacut in bigger, heavy-use blades, don’t they all essentially carry the risk of catastrophic failure, if the blank that becomes your knife just happens to have a larger void in the wrong place? Not a criticism on you in any way, just curious about the ramifications of the steel quality control as a whole. Ever since you brought these things up, I’ve steered away from Magnacut in larger, heavier-use blades. Would love to see a vid on absolute torture-testing an affected blade to the point of failure to see how it holds up, and if and when it fails. Maybe sick the DBK lads on the task? I’m sure they’d love to swing some sledgehammers in a vid.😃 Anyway, keep on rattling the cages of the industry. Love to support what you do. Respect!
With Magnacut being introduced as a stainless supersteel, I was wondering why big manufacturers would cerakote their Magnacut blades. Now I think we know why they do it. Thank you for sharing Guy!
Once you start seeing things, you won't be able to unsee it. It all becomes about protecting the money machine, not providing value to society. This whole experience has me so disillusioned. Social media just feels fake, like the new QVC. If I'm going to keep doing this, it's going to be my way, by my rules, no compromises.
I mentioned in another comment, but happy to give you an update here. Those are done with heat treat and are moving through finish grinding. We are balancing time on the bevel, grinding afterward, just to keep all projects moving forward, but all of this is headed out the door shortly. We are consistently delivering product now each week and making great progress. We will be doing an update video shortly, to let everyone know where things are. I can also say that we are coming up with solutions to further increase our efficiency here. We are always optimizing and improving.
Really appreciating all of these general topic and off the cuff videos Guy. Really great information and feels like we're all going through this together. I know I feel more connected to the process and a stronger connection to the knives themselves. What about you Guy, Does it seem to help you at all by sharing your thoughts on what happens to be going on or how you're dealing with certain circumstances at any given moment?
I have to be honest with you, it feels amazing to finally be unburdening myself of all of this. As I continue to share, the photos of giant boxes of scrap parts and delays will start making sense, the dots are going to all start connecting. The European companies didn't have US distribution figured out until recently, so I felt kind of trapped for a long time. The whole situation was slowly killing me inside. Watching any of my early videos, you can tell that I am just excited to be here and to share the experience with all of you. I'm in this for learning and betterment. I know a lot of folks are going through similar situations, but airing this stuff out isn't good for business. Now that I have options, I figured this whole journey has dragged my name through the mud enough that I just don't care. I'll be the stupid and brazen one to start talking about everything. I'm happy to take the blows if it moves the industry in a better direction. You guys deserve better.
Great to keep your integrity and stand behind what you expected of the steel(for your customers). Most manufacturers would have swept these glitches under the carpet. I was swayed by the hype about Magnacut, and have ordered a knife, unfortunately not by you. I can only offer my sympathy for the frustration and mental anguish you must have undergone. I wish the future iis all smooth sailing.
They are all mostly at the end of production now, no need to prioritize, we can ship them all. We mostly don't know what is what until right here at the end anyway, with these kinds of processes. Blades only become 2nds once we find some sort of small blemish or acceptable tolerance deviation, we don't start out trying to make anything a 2nd. I know nothing is perfect, but that is always my goal.
Great video Guy and sucks that these issues are happening. I hope we can all see if anything is progressing along with the biggest blades on your coming update video. It' been a while. Have a great day!😎🔪
Plz just let me know about when I can plan on seeing my GSO 4.5 standard in magnacut it’s been well over 8 months since I place my order I’m not upset just wanna know that it will be done.
We will be doing a larger production update shortly, but those are working through finish grinding right now. From there it is just bevel grinding and finishing, they are almost out the door.
I’d do a cerakoted k890. Seems like a good steel, I personally would just want a little more corrosion resistance. A good coating would make me plenty happy. Just a thought
We are currently looking into some different coating options. Since this steel tempers at 1000°F, we could also look at some really fun, exotic coatings to create some protection. It will take some development and finding the right quality oriented vendors, most just do tooling and have no cosmetic standard, but we'll get there. Thank you for the feedback and letting me know that would be a viable solution for you. Since we have landed back here in Pennsylvania, I have seen that there is apparently a very high quality Cerakote applicator an hour and a half away in Virginia. I might soon be taking a road trip.
Hey Guy, I hope you are having a good day. I've been a long-time fan of your knives. I purchased a 4.1 in 3v in 2019 and an original Necker in 20cv a few years before that. I watched all the hate online you accrued and was always happy to know you were thriving. Your knife designs have always spoken to me, and I am deciding on my next purchase. I will one day get a GSO 12, but I am looking heavily at the scandi designs you have. Sorry to see that the steel issues, but you will persevere. As far as I thought I understood, the CPM process is supposed to eliminate exactly what you seem to be having happen... Everyone on the internet is an expert, of course, but the CPM steels and their analogs are placed on a pedestal, and I highly doubt that Crucible wants to acknowledge any issues that will put their product in a bad light. Hopefully, switching to Bohler-Uddeholm will fix the issues. You just keep designing and creating the best knives you can. I can't wait to own a folder of yours. Have a great day, and don't let the bastards get you down.
While he was involved in the email chain, what was shared with me regarding everything was limited. I was given the mushroom treatment and then gaslighted and functionally made to deal with all of this on my own. Once they determined it was decarburizing and Magnacut might be especially sensitive to that, I didn't hear anything more. It's crazy because Peters' Heat Treating was intimately involved in the development and heat treating of samples, so I don't know how nobody was aware of this until I lost my mind and started pulling in all kinds of people. Peters' had been trying to get stress out of parts prior to hardening due to excessive warpage in that process, so they were unintentionally decarburizing the parts during a stress relieving cycle. I guess the situation never came up during development, and according to the data sheet, they didn't know they were doing anything wrong. Niagara was also still working on optimal annealing temperatures, which leaves me wondering how they verified any of the data on the data sheets before putting this shit out into the world. I'll be making more content on this, stand by.
i ordered my 5.1 magnacut knives because I live in an area where the summer climate is sub-tropical, so corrosion resistance is a priority. Do your other suppliers have steels that compare with Magnacut in all around quality and corrosion resistance?
It isn't quite available yet, but yes, and while I don't believe that grade will have quite the same edge holding, it is very tough and corrosion resistant. I will drop more details as soon as we can get a sheet in house or I know it's on the way. I do know that the Elmax we were using way back in the day fared very well here with extremely humid East Coast summers. That is going to be the straightest path to a more reliable stainless steel that is very functionally tough and has excellent all around properties. It might not be a salt water grade knife, but we never had problems with corrosion in that grade. If you are interested, check out one of my oldest videos, where I absolutely baton the crap out of an Elmax EDC-4. It performed amazingly back then and the materials and heat treating practices have gotten infinitely better in the preceding 10 years. I would still be using that material if Bohler Uddeholm had US distribution sorted out back then. We just couldn't ever get it in reliable amounts until now.
Do you think it's specifically with magnacut or with the processes at crucible. It's seem like bohler doesn't have these type of issues. I wonder if boiler could try their hand at magnacut
Looking at patents, Bohler is developing something very exotic in response to Magnacut. I have seen photos of issues with other grades from other makers I talk to but so far I have not personally experienced anything this consistently bad with other grades we work with. 3V seems to be somewhat less than homogenous in its composition at times, just looking at the warping that occurs at heat treat and physical observations during production, but I don't regularly see voids and things in that grade.
this was awesome from you to go ahead and share , by the way your knives got my attention and now your dedication increased more , I never liked magnacut not because I now a thing but just because a Bee and a Bird told me better go for 154 cm instead of magnacut , out of three magnacut knives from three different makers only one i like the bird and trout one from northarmknives , man i wish you all your good heart desires to come through take care and all the best .
It’s going to be really funny when Survive takes over the knife industry in the next 5 years. All of the people who took a dump on me on Blade Forums for simply speaking about the positive experience I’ve had with Survive are in for a rude awakening 🥰
Yes Sir! We have those working through finish grinding. From here on out we'll be sharing a regular blow by blow with all of you, so you can expect a thorough update shortly. I really had to get this out there first, to get this off my chest, before I could move forward with greater transparency.
K890? You paid good money, you should get good steel for it. I've seen other odd breakages with people testing magnacut knives. I have one.... this sort of thing makes me leery of relying on on it. Maybe a good deferentially treated 14c28n would work better for me if I can find one. Good news for the guys on the lines that make Vanax and LC200n, I guess
I'm content waiting for something you're prideful in shipping, because it ends up giving us something we can be prideful in owning. I personally don't exactly understand how anyone could hold a different position, but I suppose everyone has their own expectations. The way I see it, people in the market for a knife of this pedigree are already knife people so it should be little inconvenience if any to wait for a new workhorse at showpiece quality. You've already put up with so much guff from the manufacturer and sellers of materials, I can only thank you for your continued perseverance through such adversity. I am still just as excited as day one to receive your products, keep on keepin on Guy.
A much appreciated informative video. Sadly I'm losing faith in the integrity of the magnacut 5.1 I've recently ordered. First magnacut I've purchased so I can only hope for the best.
We have been randomly testing things and I can say that I will stand behind anything that leaves my shop with 100% confidence. It's what I don't feel comfortable letting leave the shop that is bothering me and the reason for this discussion. I tried to be a team player, to let folks handle this quietly, and let me get on my way but that went nowhere. Now we are going to discuss it, and I fully intend on bringing receipts for everything I'm saying. I know this is serious, which is why I am making very detailed videos and presenting physical evidence, regarding any claim I make.
I never needed anything more than 1095 personally. The older I get, the more I see through the marketing and get back to basics. Easy sharpening is the most important factor for me.
I used to think that until I rolled an edge cleaning a rabbit with a US made survival knife made in 1095, then blew a half silver dollar sized chunk out of a heavy cutlass chopper in 1095 CroVan. I will admit that it does work great for lots of folks, across a wide range of applications.
Rest in peace MagnaCut. Although i'm very happy with ANV's, white-rivers and UG tools MagnaCut. But for what it is supposed to be, this ain't exceptable
What batches of magnacut did you get and did others mfg see similar issues? The early batches of magnacut had lots of issues and they also had to keep up with the demand since they pushed it hard. So im sure mistakes were made early for sure. Id have to wonder if the newest batches are better. In mass production its best to not jump on the bandwagon first.
We have gotten batches of Magnacut from several places, from several time periods. Fortunately or unfortunately, our processing methods really highlight these issues. The compressive peen we do to get a better surface finish and higher abrasion resistance is also pretty unique to us. I don't know that larger manufacturers would notice this so much, as many paint things and have rougher ground finishes. I have also noticed that slower quench rates seem to make some of the twisting and things less obvious. Thankfully, this is one of those grades that can get good hardenability even with lesser equipment. For most casual people these issues probably won't be noticed, but I'm not trying to make mass produced , consumerism driven products.
1st, appreciate the new attempts to inform. 2nd, as someone with an outstanding GSO 5.1 Magnacut order, can you advise if it’s beneficial to go for the original order, look at a factory second, or switch steel in order to expedite?
A lot of those are wrapping up. Sorry about going dark for awhile, things were pretty soul crushing for a bit. th-cam.com/video/vSn0a3uGXno/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
Another great video explaining the issues that you have found with the MagnaCut Guy! After watching your long video on why steels matter, I do like the Bohler, and am now beginning to question MagnaCut. If you can get the Bohler in thicker sheets, would you be more interested in making the GSO 5.1 and other heavier duty knives?
I thought so, but apparently they felt differently. I quietly brought all of this to their attention late last year. All the internal memo style videos are saved here on TH-cam, time stamped, set to unlisted, so I absolutely dare someone there to try to call me out as saying something inaccurate. This is very important to me, so I have always taken videos and notes of everything along the way. Every business interaction, every setback, all of it has been a learning lesson on this journey. I've saved it all along the way.
I experienced a bad Magnacut knife myself from another maker who’s definitely known to produce knives with the highest standards,I own 14 knives of this brand which are all absolutely fabulous and of the highest quality guaranteed, but the one model which is made out of magnacut is having issues keeping its sharpness, there’s the same spot every time which keeps rolling the edge, made some posts about the issue on the fan forum on social media about it and there are some other guys who doubts about the quality of the steel, I did send the knife in so they can judge it and I’m not worried about the replacement at all but I’m honestly do think there’s indeed something going on with this steel now I have experienced it myself, it can be a fault made by the company itself but owning 14 knives of then and never had a bad experience before nor other owners of their knives I would be surprised if they did make a mistake with HT
While stories like this and others, from small makers and companies are validating for our own situation, comments with stories like yours just make me sad. I very much do not enjoy hearing stories of knives falling short of expectation, or failing due to material anomalies. That is why our inspections and processes are so strict. I would rather have to deal with loss here in the shop over having my customers suffer a negative experience.
Full disclosure, all interested parties you mentioned were involved in the discussion late last year when we were going through the decarburization issue. I tried to handle this quietly, to be a team player, but that got us nowhere. Now that we have good, reliable options, we're talking about it openly. I know this is serious, which is why I am making videos and presenting physical evidence and not discussing it on the seventh page of a chat form somewhere. We will continue to give updates on percentages and show examples of what is going on, if we continue seeing things.
never stop striving to reach your own defined quality control. thats how the best things in the world have come to be made, no matter what any other larger company tells you. they got to where they are by cutting corners, putting the consumer (the lifeblood of all companies) at risk. you can, and are setting an example for them. so frustrating being given shit while paying gold prices, then getting an attitude back when you youre not happy with the shit they swindled you for. struck a nerve with me.
I felt hopeless for a long time, now I'm just mad and want answers so we can get our lost time and materials back. Magnacut Decarburization Analysis th-cam.com/video/ovDWRC3ie80/w-d-xo.html
I am not going to give away all of my competitive advantages as a small business. These things took time and money to develop. I answered this question in your other comment, but I will follow up with this. We've been using this process for 8+ years now, with great success. Our media is nothing that can damage a tool steel and is designed exactly for how we're using it. We selected our equipment and processes based on our goals, in cooperation with the manufacturers of these technologies. I did mention this in your other comment, but again, here is a video, outlining the same anomalies, well before any finishing. We have initial reports back now, clearly indicating this is nothing we could be doing in our shop. th-cam.com/video/8nM-OTat2uM/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared Again, if you watch this video, you'll understand that we have been encountering these anomalies at every stage of our production, not just finishing. th-cam.com/video/bk_ka27ZnXM/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
Guy, I have been frustrated with the wait but I am so excited to get my knife when it does come because I am super impressed with your dedication to integrity! I’m waiting for my GSO 5.5 in CPM 3V but after some of your latest reviews I’m kinda wanting one of your K890 knives. I just might have to do some shopping on your site! At one time you said you might keep a GSO 5.5 for yourself. Have you changed your mind about which steel you want to put in your own knife?
The previous video about materials quality might explain why so many of the popular alloys in the past were "aviation" or "tool and die" steels. It seems like the improvement by purchasing materials intended for those industries might come not so much from the actual steel chemistry, but from the manufacturer needing to provide a higher quality product in order to sell into those higher profile and higher volume industries. "Just a knife steel" is not an attitude that I'm comfortable with because, while relatively speaking these alloys are expensive, I'm pretty sure shop and machine time is a major expense in the production of knives, and trying to save money on the steel only to lose your manufacturing costs due to defects is a losing proposition. The cool factor would have to be pretty overwhelming to make it worthwhile.
I touched on that subject in my recent video, Steel Quality And Why It Matters, and I believe that might be exactly what's happening. I don't understand the low standards, as it's a razor sharp thing you're holding in your hand and doing work with. In my opinion, a knife is one of the most dangerous things a human being can put in their hand and we need higher standards. I'm so sick and tired of everything being about marketing and capital generation, and not about actually providing society with quality solutions.
Wow, brutal take down of Magnacut and the manufacturer. I’m concerned about these inclusions and what’s going on below the surface. What’s the timeline for producing the 5.1 in K890? I’ve been waiting over a year and a half for two 5.1s in Magnacut. But now I’m wondering if I should wait longer and get them in K890 when they become available.
I have tested parts here and there, that I am delivering as 1sts and 2nds and the performance has seemed great. I do worry about the large amount of inclusions though, which is why I will be withdrawing a bit from some of these materials, at least until they've demonstrated some improvements and better repeatability. Like I said, in the video, some material has been absolutely phenomenal, which is where we got a false sense of confidence and mistakenly went too hard after the Dutch Bushcraft knives review. That stopped me right in my tracks for a bit, while we recalculated a route forward. Most of these orders are moving through finishing and assembly right now, you can expect delivery shortly. If I am falling short due to issues like this, we will continue to get material to ensure everyone gets the very best, as promised. I plan to do a blow by blow of each major batch, to hopefully ensure better accountability with my materials suppliers. We are going to show you everything. Absolutely Everything. This is going back to my roots, dealing with these things quietly has been killing me inside.
I work in a steel foundry and every piece is examined by ultrasound to see if there are clots or cracks, (p.s. the ultrasound machine in my company is over 30 years old and works).. one clot smaller than a millimeter is allowed, if there are two close to each other, it is treated as a crack and must not be sold, they deliberately place on the market pieces that do not pass the standard because they cannot get the appropriate quality...I speak from experience
I'm happy to send a scrap part if we can all learn something. I've been hoping someone with some NDI equipment might see this and speak up! If that's a possibility, shoot us an email at info@surviveknives.com
@@Surviveknives Believe me, I would love nothing more than to help you, I really appreciate you and what you do, but I'm from Bosnia and Herzegovina, so it's probably impossible
My first magnacut blade was a dud . It was from hogue . I sharpened it and it was a mf er and half to get sharp . I don’t know what was wrong with it but I chucked it in lake . It’s not just you and it’s not just me . Magnacut has some bigs still imo and I’d stay a mile away from it . Use your best judgement and good luck . You’re wondering what’s under the skin of that steel ? I am too . Someone else has to speak up and do the right thing . I said a year ago after my experience that magancut is too risky right now and it didn’t feel right to me when I sharpened . Just one opinion . I like Larrin Thomas though . It’s just I feel there’s some bugs deep down
I think that explains why I've seen in videos where magnacut gets battoned through something and breaks then in another video it's just fine. I really like your knives, I think I've ordered 5 since August lol. love the fact that on the EDC 4 there are no hotspots
I share the exact same sentiment on the base cause of the inconsistent performance in this grade. Wait until you feel the EDC-5 and EDC-5.5. it feels absolutely magical, I'm so proud of my team and what we are doing these days.
Man, if you or anyone reading this has access to that type of equipment, I would be happy to send some sample blades out for inspection. I really mean this shit, so let's go down this rabbit hole together. All of us, together, learning stuff. I love it.
I’ll have to watch this when I get off work but I JUST sent an email to y’all about my preorder after conversing with Tyler about a month ago. I’ll come back and edit my comment after I’m able to watch the video. Edit-wow just the percentages of failure that your getting due to the issue with the steel would be unacceptable in any other industry. Sorry to hear the foundry is giving you the run around. I’m not sure what other proof you would need to provide them to prove your point. It makes me wonder if any other manufacturers have had this issue? Also stick to your guns because the proof is in the pudding and your plainly showing the issues that your having.
Niagara seems to be doing poorer every year. If you’re able to, look at the published financials. That’s one way to tell if the company is capable of standing behind things like warranty claims. Compare the financials to Böhler and see who you want to supply to materials you’ll have to stand behind.
It's really sad. I used to be a true believer, but becoming a full manufacturing company and having really high standards, now I've seen too much. I can't unsee it, so I need to go where my morals and standards are guiding me.
We regularly beat up knives, as it helps me understand what I feel comfortable offering as a factory 2nd. We've always had good judgement in that regard. After 12 years we can still count our warranty failures on two hands. I can live with that.
Stick to your guns guy. The quality of your knives demands the best materials. They should want to make it right and identify what could have caused the inclusions. My gso 4.1 in cpm-3v PHT has the best edge retention of all of my collection of users. I’m excited for my second knife from you. EDC 4 full flat in magna cut. Magna cut has been on my list of steels to get my hands on because of all the hype.
Yes, all of the folks at Crucible, Niagara, Larrin, and others were CC'd in messages when we started seeing material inconsistencies and during the decarburization discovery process. We have all the emails and as you can see during this video, we showed that we regularly send feedback to these companies in videos. We tried this quietly, now I'm handling it my way.
Once you buy something, there is a large financial incentive to keep your mouth shut. Talking about things like that are against self interest. When you look at larger companies especially, who invest in tens of thousands of pounds of steel at one time, the investment is massive. Here is Brad Larkin saying a lot without actually saying it. th-cam.com/video/vv0DTCF-7qs/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
Also, stand by. This has gone on too long. We're about to release all of the relevant emails regarding these issues, to include communications between SURVIVE!, Niagara, Specialty Metals, Crucible Industries, and Peters' Heat Treat. I didn't want it to go this far, but here we are.
I absolutely LOVE 3V but I will never own anything in MagnaCut, I don't think its as good as people claim it to be. I think its over hyped and underdeveloped.
I hope I’m not the gentleman you’re speaking of who runs the knife supply company, and that my comments on the Spyderco forum weren’t taken out of context…
No, you are not. This gentleman was mentioning, not wanting to carry these materials because of issues that I have also been seeing since taking over my own manufacturing. For trying to bring this to the public's attention, the CEO of that company chipped away at his character and discredited him, he was ganged up on and it was not talked about again. For most of my company's history I have been a customer of subcontractors. I wasn't as acutely aware of these things as I am now. Now that I see it though, I can't unsee it.
No worries, we're working on stainless options too. The Magnacut is mostly fine but these issues recently will mean we won't be offering it for very much longer, if they can't get this type of stuff under control. No changes were happening when I tried to handle this quietly with them, so we're going public, to hopefully create a higher level of accountability. I just want the best for you guys.
I tell you what, if you legit have that much trouble with the magnacut, I'm willing to pay the difference for whatever steel in your judgement would give the next best performance. You're not the only one left holding the bag here, and I have not been quiet about my disappointment, but if you legit want to make this right, I am willing to pay the difference for the blade material of your choice. I want a tool I can use. I would even be willing to discuss paying the full price for a Bohler GSO 5.1 if you can give me a real delivery date and meet it. Your being transparent, and I am going to make this offer to you in front of everyone who sees this video....and if you can't take either of those approaches, you can tell me why right here in front of everyone too.
America living up to it's reputation for high quality (lol) at fair costs (lmao). Easy solution. The US is a sinking ship. Buying American is objectively dumb. China can do anything the US can do and they can it better and for a fraction of the cost. End of story. That doesn't work here because they dont really have an industry like this that's available to clients around the world right now but that's coming. Yeah, of course European steel is higher quality. Why wouldnt it be? They don't hate their jobs, they actually take their jobs very seriously, they're well trained, they invest in maintaining and upgrading things... You can't even order a sandwich in the US without a 50/50 shot that it's going to be wrong in some way. I went to 711 the other day and they gave me $20 of free gas. I went again and I was overcharged, they charged me $30 for something that should have been $15. These careless mistakes occur ALL THE TIME in the US and very rarely in other developed countries. If you drop a wrench in a German workshop, you're getting sent home. You keep at it and you will lose your job and be sent for retraining. Try hiring a mover in the US and then watch a video of how it's done in Japan. The US is world's leading S hole country. The best example of this is healthcare where Americans are spending A LOT more than any other country in the world yet the US ranks last in terms of health outcomes. Careless mistakes by American doctors literally kill a quarter of million Americans a year, medical error, mostly careless mistakes and general carelessness is the 3rd leading cause of DEATH in the US today. Wake up.
Seems like they all need to be serial numbered with manufactured lot numbers and manufacturing date. There has to be more voids hidden and they are going to break. You can’t afford to be spending 20% of your time working on a blade that has to be sent back after you already put time and effort into it. Now you have to make a video using up more of your time that could be used elsewhere. So frustrating.
Yeah, moving forward we're going to know exactly what knives are made from what sheets. We've had very good judgement on what blems we let out of the shop but we're also looking at what inspection equipment we can get, so we can avoid pushing substandard materials through production, only to find issues after we've already put so much time and effort into them. It's been frustrating, I'm glad we finally have better access to Bohler Uddeholm products.
![BABYMONSTER - 'DRIP' M/V REACTION [WAS NOT EXPECTING THIS!!!]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/t0Lpgr1jo3Y/mqdefault.jpg)
![[Part 1] ทารกน้อยถูกทิ้ง👶 หญิงชราเก็บขวดขายเลี้ยงดูเขาจนโต #โลกการละคร](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nPTDvFCExks/mqdefault.jpg)
Quality over QTY everytime!!!! I have no issues waiting for my GSO longer knowing that it is to spec!! Thank you for all you do!!!!
This is exactly why I support your business and buy multiple knives from you!! Thanks for your R&D and bring it to our attention!
Never having been on the manufacturing side of knives, I can't say I have ever had issue with any steels. I've always respected the Bohler product and you talking so highly about them from your perspective just gives me more confidence in their quality.
I don't know if I am now more excited or leery on my prepaid GSO 5.1 Magnacut order. Leery because its been well over a year since I placed this prepaid order or excited to think my perfect knife just might be getting finished before the additional years end. I do SAR work and I want my fist knife has to be that do it all knife. I also want my first Survive knife to be a perfect example. If you determine its not the metal for that perfect knife I need to know this yesterday and am open minded to a replacement, as long as I don't have to wait another year or more. Guy, I do appreciate what your seeing and the honesty you have in your concerns. I just become a little leery when "Guy the perfectionist" continues to have issues with material suppliers. I really do look forward to the day that you find that perfect metal or metals that can allow customers to have perfectly made Survive knifes made on time frames that can finally beat what a few of our local custom knife makers here in Texas can produce. Your Survive designs really appear to be well thought out and engineered to exacting applications. I have several knives made by other makers of Elmax and other Bohler metals and I think you are right on track with what your observing and experiencing. Maybe Bohler can be contracted to produce the Magnacut for you? In my case, I simply need the strongest all around corrosion/rust resistant knife that I can find for what I do but my time and needs cannot be delayed for an unknow period of time. This was a very useful video and thank you for putting this out there.
Hey, I owe you a better response but those orders are wrapping up and I 110% stand behind what leaves our shop. Most Magnacut GSO-5.1s are wrapping up and we'll continue getting more Magnacut to fulfill any remaining orders, if we're falling a little short because of these steel QC issues. Bohler has some good options in the works but in the meantime I'll be using a lot more Elmax if these CPM issues don't resolve themselves. I do apologize for the delay, but please know that we've got your back. The entire reason for moving back to Pennsylvania was to bring this all home and we're doing it. -Guy
Keep shaking that snow globe, Guy. They need to be held accountable for the product they put out. 👍
I've mentioned this a couple of times, but the inconsistency issue with Magnacut does go back to when it was introduced. I had a couple of custom chef knives on order in Magnacut back when it was the hot new thing and the maker I was working with could not produce what I wanted because of warping issues on thinner stock knives. This seems like an odd problem to have with an alloy that was supposed to be purpose designed to satisfy the high end knife community.
The consistency speaks of quality! Number 1 looks exactly like number 1000! Incredible and the only knife company in the world that is this consistent! Cheers to Guy.
That's it right there. Having professional standards. I am very proud of the fact that we are building something this high quality together with you guys. You can take any knife from any one of our batches and mix it with any sheath and they all fit the same. I know what these materials should be, what they claim they are, and this isn't it.
Thank you for the video update. I have a GSO 5.1 Magnacut on order. Definitely keeping the faith in your company and knives. If you feel I should switch to another metal I trust your judgement completely. I certainly do not want a field failure and I know you feel the same way.
I will 100% agree with this statement! If you think there is a better option sign me up!
At this point, ill take a 5.1 or a 6 in any steel!
Thanks for all the updates Guy and for holding their feet to the fire! I’ve been waiting patiently for my v4 and v4.5 for over a year now so I’m hoping the magnacut steel in these knives is good to go and that they will hold up to hard use that your other knives I own hold up to!
Makes you wonder about the Magnacut sheets you're getting. Like, for the parts that do look perfect, are there any inclusions embedded into the center of the metal that aren't visible.
Thanks for taking a stand for us little people, appreciate your quality control, i have one on order and edc 3 and 4 in k890
I think you are really, really going to like those knives. Aside from not being a stainless steel, this stuff is awesome. Truly a stand out material.
I enjoy your candor! Yes, we should all hold providers up to standards.
I used to be frustrated by the wait when I had a GSO 4.1 that took 3 years to arrive, but with the increased transparency over the last couple years, I fully support your attention to detail, focus on quality, and uncompromising standards to deliver something you can stand behind. Maybe that's partially due to being in the working world longer now and developing my own personal work standards that I try to maintain, but your communcation definitely helped. I have two Vendetta series knives preordered (1 Magnacut and the other 3V) and I think you have the blanks cut already, but at this point I wouldn't mind if you wanted to switch to Bohler steels.
Appreciate the quality and updates. Worth the wait!
Here for you Guy! Great video, even greater Tools!
Hi Guy and Ellie!
Just received my decarb green Cerakote Magnacut 2.7. - Effin’ impeccable!
I’m used to larger knives, but this thing is really starting to grow on me. 😊
The belly of the blade is exactly the width of my thumb, and its height is just a hair shorter than my index finger, making it a perfect size for finer tasks. I don’t bird, hunt or skin things, but this would be a great tool for that. This one will become a hold-out, carry-all, EDC woods-satchel knife. Can’t wait to put it through its paces! 😍
And you were definitely right in your earlier videos - there’s literally _nothing_ obnoxius in the new handle design. Despite the short length of the handle, everything is perfectly rounded, so there’s zero hot spots. The fit & finish is - again - fantastic. I thought I would not like the new, round spine and the slightly proud handle tang, but damn - it just works great in the hand, and seeing the round spine handle batoning in your destructive testing steel quality vid? - I fully get it now. 👍
I doubt I will be wailing on this with a steel hammer or cutting nails (😃), but rather processing light kindling, carving tent pegs, and sticks for roasting stuff over the fire. (🔥🙏) Thank you!
This may be a bit controversial question to answer about Magnacut, but if you want to: these little imperfections in the Magnacut steel matrix that you’re seeing - markers of small voids, foily strips shearing off in surface grinding; just like you’re saying, from a quality perspective, don’t these compromise the whole sheet, and essentially leave all the blade manufacturers like yourself guessing? The types of inconsistencies you’re seeing in the structure of the steel, when using Magnacut in bigger, heavy-use blades, don’t they all essentially carry the risk of catastrophic failure, if the blank that becomes your knife just happens to have a larger void in the wrong place? Not a criticism on you in any way, just curious about the ramifications of the steel quality control as a whole.
Ever since you brought these things up, I’ve steered away from Magnacut in larger, heavier-use blades. Would love to see a vid on absolute torture-testing an affected blade to the point of failure to see how it holds up, and if and when it fails. Maybe sick the DBK lads on the task? I’m sure they’d love to swing some sledgehammers in a vid.😃
Anyway, keep on rattling the cages of the industry. Love to support what you do. Respect!
With Magnacut being introduced as a stainless supersteel, I was wondering why big manufacturers would cerakote their Magnacut blades. Now I think we know why they do it. Thank you for sharing Guy!
Once you start seeing things, you won't be able to unsee it. It all becomes about protecting the money machine, not providing value to society. This whole experience has me so disillusioned. Social media just feels fake, like the new QVC. If I'm going to keep doing this, it's going to be my way, by my rules, no compromises.
When will the 4.5 in Magnacut be shipping out? I preordered one in 2021.
I mentioned in another comment, but happy to give you an update here. Those are done with heat treat and are moving through finish grinding. We are balancing time on the bevel, grinding afterward, just to keep all projects moving forward, but all of this is headed out the door shortly. We are consistently delivering product now each week and making great progress. We will be doing an update video shortly, to let everyone know where things are. I can also say that we are coming up with solutions to further increase our efficiency here. We are always optimizing and improving.
Really appreciating all of these general topic and off the cuff videos Guy. Really great information and feels like we're all going through this together. I know I feel more connected to the process and a stronger connection to the knives themselves. What about you Guy, Does it seem to help you at all by sharing your thoughts on what happens to be going on or how you're dealing with certain circumstances at any given moment?
I have to be honest with you, it feels amazing to finally be unburdening myself of all of this. As I continue to share, the photos of giant boxes of scrap parts and delays will start making sense, the dots are going to all start connecting. The European companies didn't have US distribution figured out until recently, so I felt kind of trapped for a long time. The whole situation was slowly killing me inside. Watching any of my early videos, you can tell that I am just excited to be here and to share the experience with all of you. I'm in this for learning and betterment. I know a lot of folks are going through similar situations, but airing this stuff out isn't good for business. Now that I have options, I figured this whole journey has dragged my name through the mud enough that I just don't care. I'll be the stupid and brazen one to start talking about everything. I'm happy to take the blows if it moves the industry in a better direction. You guys deserve better.
Great to keep your integrity and stand behind what you expected of the steel(for your customers). Most manufacturers would have swept these glitches under the carpet. I was swayed by the hype about Magnacut, and have ordered a knife, unfortunately not by you.
I can only offer my sympathy for the frustration and mental anguish you must have undergone. I wish the future iis all smooth sailing.
Will you prioritize preorder GSO-5.1 Magnacut or the seconds and when will you start to ship preorders?
They are all mostly at the end of production now, no need to prioritize, we can ship them all. We mostly don't know what is what until right here at the end anyway, with these kinds of processes. Blades only become 2nds once we find some sort of small blemish or acceptable tolerance deviation, we don't start out trying to make anything a 2nd. I know nothing is perfect, but that is always my goal.
Great video Guy and sucks that these issues are happening. I hope we can all see if anything is progressing along with the biggest blades on your coming update video. It' been a while. Have a great day!😎🔪
Plz just let me know about when I can plan on seeing my GSO 4.5 standard in magnacut it’s been well over 8 months since I place my order I’m not upset just wanna know that it will be done.
We will be doing a larger production update shortly, but those are working through finish grinding right now. From there it is just bevel grinding and finishing, they are almost out the door.
I’d do a cerakoted k890. Seems like a good steel, I personally would just want a little more corrosion resistance. A good coating would make me plenty happy. Just a thought
We are currently looking into some different coating options. Since this steel tempers at 1000°F, we could also look at some really fun, exotic coatings to create some protection. It will take some development and finding the right quality oriented vendors, most just do tooling and have no cosmetic standard, but we'll get there. Thank you for the feedback and letting me know that would be a viable solution for you. Since we have landed back here in Pennsylvania, I have seen that there is apparently a very high quality Cerakote applicator an hour and a half away in Virginia. I might soon be taking a road trip.
Homogeneity. Thanks for the update videos!
Hey Guy, I hope you are having a good day. I've been a long-time fan of your knives. I purchased a 4.1 in 3v in 2019 and an original Necker in 20cv a few years before that. I watched all the hate online you accrued and was always happy to know you were thriving. Your knife designs have always spoken to me, and I am deciding on my next purchase. I will one day get a GSO 12, but I am looking heavily at the scandi designs you have. Sorry to see that the steel issues, but you will persevere. As far as I thought I understood, the CPM process is supposed to eliminate exactly what you seem to be having happen... Everyone on the internet is an expert, of course, but the CPM steels and their analogs are placed on a pedestal, and I highly doubt that Crucible wants to acknowledge any issues that will put their product in a bad light. Hopefully, switching to Bohler-Uddeholm will fix the issues. You just keep designing and creating the best knives you can. I can't wait to own a folder of yours. Have a great day, and don't let the bastards get you down.
What had Larrin have to say about all of this MagnaCrap issue?
While he was involved in the email chain, what was shared with me regarding everything was limited. I was given the mushroom treatment and then gaslighted and functionally made to deal with all of this on my own. Once they determined it was decarburizing and Magnacut might be especially sensitive to that, I didn't hear anything more. It's crazy because Peters' Heat Treating was intimately involved in the development and heat treating of samples, so I don't know how nobody was aware of this until I lost my mind and started pulling in all kinds of people. Peters' had been trying to get stress out of parts prior to hardening due to excessive warpage in that process, so they were unintentionally decarburizing the parts during a stress relieving cycle. I guess the situation never came up during development, and according to the data sheet, they didn't know they were doing anything wrong. Niagara was also still working on optimal annealing temperatures, which leaves me wondering how they verified any of the data on the data sheets before putting this shit out into the world. I'll be making more content on this, stand by.
I just ordered one of your knives. Doing my part to support a responsible business.
i ordered my 5.1 magnacut knives because I live in an area where the summer climate is sub-tropical, so corrosion resistance is a priority. Do your other suppliers have steels that compare with Magnacut in all around quality and corrosion resistance?
It isn't quite available yet, but yes, and while I don't believe that grade will have quite the same edge holding, it is very tough and corrosion resistant. I will drop more details as soon as we can get a sheet in house or I know it's on the way. I do know that the Elmax we were using way back in the day fared very well here with extremely humid East Coast summers. That is going to be the straightest path to a more reliable stainless steel that is very functionally tough and has excellent all around properties. It might not be a salt water grade knife, but we never had problems with corrosion in that grade. If you are interested, check out one of my oldest videos, where I absolutely baton the crap out of an Elmax EDC-4. It performed amazingly back then and the materials and heat treating practices have gotten infinitely better in the preceding 10 years. I would still be using that material if Bohler Uddeholm had US distribution sorted out back then. We just couldn't ever get it in reliable amounts until now.
Do you think it's specifically with magnacut or with the processes at crucible. It's seem like bohler doesn't have these type of issues. I wonder if boiler could try their hand at magnacut
Looking at patents, Bohler is developing something very exotic in response to Magnacut. I have seen photos of issues with other grades from other makers I talk to but so far I have not personally experienced anything this consistently bad with other grades we work with. 3V seems to be somewhat less than homogenous in its composition at times, just looking at the warping that occurs at heat treat and physical observations during production, but I don't regularly see voids and things in that grade.
this was awesome from you to go ahead and share , by the way your knives got my attention and now your dedication increased more , I never liked magnacut not because I now a thing but just because a Bee and a Bird told me better go for 154 cm instead of magnacut , out of three magnacut knives from three different makers only one i like the bird and trout one from northarmknives , man i wish you all your good heart desires to come through take care and all the best .
We believe in Survive knives....perhaps I can't speak for anyone else, but I've waiting years for a company like yours. I stand by your brand.
It’s going to be really funny when Survive takes over the knife industry in the next 5 years. All of the people who took a dump on me on Blade Forums for simply speaking about the positive experience I’ve had with Survive are in for a rude awakening 🥰
i got a standart 4.5 in magnacut on preorder for about a year, do you have any developement on those?
Yes Sir! We have those working through finish grinding. From here on out we'll be sharing a regular blow by blow with all of you, so you can expect a thorough update shortly. I really had to get this out there first, to get this off my chest, before I could move forward with greater transparency.
K890? You paid good money, you should get good steel for it. I've seen other odd breakages with people testing magnacut knives. I have one.... this sort of thing makes me leery of relying on on it. Maybe a good deferentially treated 14c28n would work better for me if I can find one. Good news for the guys on the lines that make Vanax and LC200n, I guess
I'm content waiting for something you're prideful in shipping, because it ends up giving us something we can be prideful in owning. I personally don't exactly understand how anyone could hold a different position, but I suppose everyone has their own expectations. The way I see it, people in the market for a knife of this pedigree are already knife people so it should be little inconvenience if any to wait for a new workhorse at showpiece quality. You've already put up with so much guff from the manufacturer and sellers of materials, I can only thank you for your continued perseverance through such adversity. I am still just as excited as day one to receive your products, keep on keepin on Guy.
Can you make a video on the production on GSO 5.1 in 3v please
A much appreciated informative video. Sadly I'm losing faith in the integrity of the magnacut 5.1 I've recently ordered. First magnacut I've purchased so I can only hope for the best.
We have been randomly testing things and I can say that I will stand behind anything that leaves my shop with 100% confidence. It's what I don't feel comfortable letting leave the shop that is bothering me and the reason for this discussion. I tried to be a team player, to let folks handle this quietly, and let me get on my way but that went nowhere. Now we are going to discuss it, and I fully intend on bringing receipts for everything I'm saying. I know this is serious, which is why I am making very detailed videos and presenting physical evidence, regarding any claim I make.
I never needed anything more than 1095 personally. The older I get, the more I see through the marketing and get back to basics. Easy sharpening is the most important factor for me.
I used to think that until I rolled an edge cleaning a rabbit with a US made survival knife made in 1095, then blew a half silver dollar sized chunk out of a heavy cutlass chopper in 1095 CroVan. I will admit that it does work great for lots of folks, across a wide range of applications.
You stand behind your products, they should too. I ordered another one. 😮
Rest in peace MagnaCut. Although i'm very happy with ANV's, white-rivers and UG tools MagnaCut. But for what it is supposed to be, this ain't exceptable
I trust you
What batches of magnacut did you get and did others mfg see similar issues? The early batches of magnacut had lots of issues and they also had to keep up with the demand since they pushed it hard. So im sure mistakes were made early for sure. Id have to wonder if the newest batches are better. In mass production its best to not jump on the bandwagon first.
We have gotten batches of Magnacut from several places, from several time periods. Fortunately or unfortunately, our processing methods really highlight these issues. The compressive peen we do to get a better surface finish and higher abrasion resistance is also pretty unique to us. I don't know that larger manufacturers would notice this so much, as many paint things and have rougher ground finishes. I have also noticed that slower quench rates seem to make some of the twisting and things less obvious. Thankfully, this is one of those grades that can get good hardenability even with lesser equipment. For most casual people these issues probably won't be noticed, but I'm not trying to make mass produced , consumerism driven products.
1st, appreciate the new attempts to inform. 2nd, as someone with an outstanding GSO 5.1 Magnacut order, can you advise if it’s beneficial to go for the original order, look at a factory second, or switch steel in order to expedite?
A lot of those are wrapping up. Sorry about going dark for awhile, things were pretty soul crushing for a bit. th-cam.com/video/vSn0a3uGXno/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
Another great video explaining the issues that you have found with the MagnaCut Guy!
After watching your long video on why steels matter, I do like the Bohler, and am now beginning to question MagnaCut.
If you can get the Bohler in thicker sheets, would you be more interested in making the GSO 5.1 and other heavier duty knives?
Niagara steel has some explaining to do
I thought so, but apparently they felt differently. I quietly brought all of this to their attention late last year. All the internal memo style videos are saved here on TH-cam, time stamped, set to unlisted, so I absolutely dare someone there to try to call me out as saying something inaccurate. This is very important to me, so I have always taken videos and notes of everything along the way. Every business interaction, every setback, all of it has been a learning lesson on this journey. I've saved it all along the way.
I experienced a bad Magnacut knife myself from another maker who’s definitely known to produce knives with the highest standards,I own 14 knives of this brand which are all absolutely fabulous and of the highest quality guaranteed, but the one model which is made out of magnacut is having issues keeping its sharpness, there’s the same spot every time which keeps rolling the edge, made some posts about the issue on the fan forum on social media about it and there are some other guys who doubts about the quality of the steel, I did send the knife in so they can judge it and I’m not worried about the replacement at all but I’m honestly do think there’s indeed something going on with this steel now I have experienced it myself, it can be a fault made by the company itself but owning 14 knives of then and never had a bad experience before nor other owners of their knives I would be surprised if they did make a mistake with HT
While stories like this and others, from small makers and companies are validating for our own situation, comments with stories like yours just make me sad. I very much do not enjoy hearing stories of knives falling short of expectation, or failing due to material anomalies. That is why our inspections and processes are so strict. I would rather have to deal with loss here in the shop over having my customers suffer a negative experience.
The word you were looking for is “homogeneity.”
Yeah, I looked it up immediately. I need to use it more before it will feel natural to say.
Would be interesting to see an open investigation/discussion about it with Crucible and Larrin Thomas included.
Full disclosure, all interested parties you mentioned were involved in the discussion late last year when we were going through the decarburization issue. I tried to handle this quietly, to be a team player, but that got us nowhere. Now that we have good, reliable options, we're talking about it openly. I know this is serious, which is why I am making videos and presenting physical evidence and not discussing it on the seventh page of a chat form somewhere. We will continue to give updates on percentages and show examples of what is going on, if we continue seeing things.
never stop striving to reach your own defined quality control. thats how the best things in the world have come to be made, no matter what any other larger company tells you. they got to where they are by cutting corners, putting the consumer (the lifeblood of all companies) at risk. you can, and are setting an example for them. so frustrating being given shit while paying gold prices, then getting an attitude back when you youre not happy with the shit they swindled you for. struck a nerve with me.
You've always offered transparency at Survive. Now these are the waves of truth the community at large needs.
I felt hopeless for a long time, now I'm just mad and want answers so we can get our lost time and materials back. Magnacut Decarburization Analysis
th-cam.com/video/ovDWRC3ie80/w-d-xo.html
What media is GSO knives using to shot-peen?
I am not going to give away all of my competitive advantages as a small business. These things took time and money to develop. I answered this question in your other comment, but I will follow up with this. We've been using this process for 8+ years now, with great success. Our media is nothing that can damage a tool steel and is designed exactly for how we're using it. We selected our equipment and processes based on our goals, in cooperation with the manufacturers of these technologies.
I did mention this in your other comment, but again, here is a video, outlining the same anomalies, well before any finishing. We have initial reports back now, clearly indicating this is nothing we could be doing in our shop. th-cam.com/video/8nM-OTat2uM/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
Again, if you watch this video, you'll understand that we have been encountering these anomalies at every stage of our production, not just finishing. th-cam.com/video/bk_ka27ZnXM/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
Awesome:)
Guy, I have been frustrated with the wait but I am so excited to get my knife when it does come because I am super impressed with your dedication to integrity! I’m waiting for my GSO 5.5 in CPM 3V but after some of your latest reviews I’m kinda wanting one of your K890 knives. I just might have to do some shopping on your site! At one time you said you might keep a GSO 5.5 for yourself. Have you changed your mind about which steel you want to put in your own knife?
The previous video about materials quality might explain why so many of the popular alloys in the past were "aviation" or "tool and die" steels. It seems like the improvement by purchasing materials intended for those industries might come not so much from the actual steel chemistry, but from the manufacturer needing to provide a higher quality product in order to sell into those higher profile and higher volume industries. "Just a knife steel" is not an attitude that I'm comfortable with because, while relatively speaking these alloys are expensive, I'm pretty sure shop and machine time is a major expense in the production of knives, and trying to save money on the steel only to lose your manufacturing costs due to defects is a losing proposition. The cool factor would have to be pretty overwhelming to make it worthwhile.
I touched on that subject in my recent video, Steel Quality And Why It Matters, and I believe that might be exactly what's happening. I don't understand the low standards, as it's a razor sharp thing you're holding in your hand and doing work with. In my opinion, a knife is one of the most dangerous things a human being can put in their hand and we need higher standards. I'm so sick and tired of everything being about marketing and capital generation, and not about actually providing society with quality solutions.
I think you should examine those cracks with an ultrasound, there must be some under the surface
Wow, brutal take down of Magnacut and the manufacturer. I’m concerned about these inclusions and what’s going on below the surface. What’s the timeline for producing the 5.1 in K890? I’ve been waiting over a year and a half for two 5.1s in Magnacut. But now I’m wondering if I should wait longer and get them in K890 when they become available.
I have tested parts here and there, that I am delivering as 1sts and 2nds and the performance has seemed great. I do worry about the large amount of inclusions though, which is why I will be withdrawing a bit from some of these materials, at least until they've demonstrated some improvements and better repeatability. Like I said, in the video, some material has been absolutely phenomenal, which is where we got a false sense of confidence and mistakenly went too hard after the Dutch Bushcraft knives review. That stopped me right in my tracks for a bit, while we recalculated a route forward. Most of these orders are moving through finishing and assembly right now, you can expect delivery shortly. If I am falling short due to issues like this, we will continue to get material to ensure everyone gets the very best, as promised. I plan to do a blow by blow of each major batch, to hopefully ensure better accountability with my materials suppliers. We are going to show you everything. Absolutely Everything. This is going back to my roots, dealing with these things quietly has been killing me inside.
I work in a steel foundry and every piece is examined by ultrasound to see if there are clots or cracks, (p.s. the ultrasound machine in my company is over 30 years old and works).. one clot smaller than a millimeter is allowed, if there are two close to each other, it is treated as a crack and must not be sold, they deliberately place on the market pieces that do not pass the standard because they cannot get the appropriate quality...I speak from experience
I'm happy to send a scrap part if we can all learn something. I've been hoping someone with some NDI equipment might see this and speak up! If that's a possibility, shoot us an email at info@surviveknives.com
@@Surviveknives Believe me, I would love nothing more than to help you, I really appreciate you and what you do, but I'm from Bosnia and Herzegovina, so it's probably impossible
My first magnacut blade was a dud . It was from hogue . I sharpened it and it was a mf er and half to get sharp . I don’t know what was wrong with it but I chucked it in lake . It’s not just you and it’s not just me . Magnacut has some bigs still imo and I’d stay a mile away from it . Use your best judgement and good luck . You’re wondering what’s under the skin of that steel ? I am too . Someone else has to speak up and do the right thing . I said a year ago after my experience that magancut is too risky right now and it didn’t feel right to me when I sharpened . Just one opinion . I like Larrin Thomas though . It’s just I feel there’s some bugs deep down
I think that explains why I've seen in videos where magnacut gets battoned through something and breaks then in another video it's just fine.
I really like your knives, I think I've ordered 5 since August lol. love the fact that on the EDC 4 there are no hotspots
I share the exact same sentiment on the base cause of the inconsistent performance in this grade. Wait until you feel the EDC-5 and EDC-5.5. it feels absolutely magical, I'm so proud of my team and what we are doing these days.
I'm sorry Guy😢, man I thought that was behind us, sounds like there just kicking the can down the line? Any way to particle X-ray, Sonic image
Man, if you or anyone reading this has access to that type of equipment, I would be happy to send some sample blades out for inspection. I really mean this shit, so let's go down this rabbit hole together. All of us, together, learning stuff. I love it.
I’ll have to watch this when I get off work but I JUST sent an email to y’all about my preorder after conversing with Tyler about a month ago. I’ll come back and edit my comment after I’m able to watch the video.
Edit-wow just the percentages of failure that your getting due to the issue with the steel would be unacceptable in any other industry. Sorry to hear the foundry is giving you the run around. I’m not sure what other proof you would need to provide them to prove your point. It makes me wonder if any other manufacturers have had this issue? Also stick to your guns because the proof is in the pudding and your plainly showing the issues that your having.
Niagara seems to be doing poorer every year. If you’re able to, look at the published financials. That’s one way to tell if the company is capable of standing behind things like warranty claims. Compare the financials to Böhler and see who you want to supply to materials you’ll have to stand behind.
It's really sad. I used to be a true believer, but becoming a full manufacturing company and having really high standards, now I've seen too much. I can't unsee it, so I need to go where my morals and standards are guiding me.
Test the the ones you are worried about to failure to relieve your worries that they are just cosmetic.
We regularly beat up knives, as it helps me understand what I feel comfortable offering as a factory 2nd. We've always had good judgement in that regard. After 12 years we can still count our warranty failures on two hands. I can live with that.
👍
Stick to your guns guy. The quality of your knives demands the best materials. They should want to make it right and identify what could have caused the inclusions. My gso 4.1 in cpm-3v PHT has the best edge retention of all of my collection of users. I’m excited for my second knife from you. EDC 4 full flat in magna cut. Magna cut has been on my list of steels to get my hands on because of all the hype.
Did you speak with Magnacut steel creator?? He is metallurgist and have yt channel-what you can loose?
Yes, all of the folks at Crucible, Niagara, Larrin, and others were CC'd in messages when we started seeing material inconsistencies and during the decarburization discovery process. We have all the emails and as you can see during this video, we showed that we regularly send feedback to these companies in videos. We tried this quietly, now I'm handling it my way.
I don't see or hear about any other knife makers having issues with magnacut.
Once you buy something, there is a large financial incentive to keep your mouth shut. Talking about things like that are against self interest. When you look at larger companies especially, who invest in tens of thousands of pounds of steel at one time, the investment is massive. Here is Brad Larkin saying a lot without actually saying it. th-cam.com/video/vv0DTCF-7qs/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
Also, stand by. This has gone on too long. We're about to release all of the relevant emails regarding these issues, to include communications between SURVIVE!, Niagara, Specialty Metals, Crucible Industries, and Peters' Heat Treat. I didn't want it to go this far, but here we are.
I absolutely LOVE 3V but I will never own anything in MagnaCut, I don't think its as good as people claim it to be. I think its over hyped and underdeveloped.
I hope I’m not the gentleman you’re speaking of who runs the knife supply company, and that my comments on the Spyderco forum weren’t taken out of context…
No, you are not. This gentleman was mentioning, not wanting to carry these materials because of issues that I have also been seeing since taking over my own manufacturing. For trying to bring this to the public's attention, the CEO of that company chipped away at his character and discredited him, he was ganged up on and it was not talked about again. For most of my company's history I have been a customer of subcontractors. I wasn't as acutely aware of these things as I am now. Now that I see it though, I can't unsee it.
For them it is all about the money and the bottom line. No pride in their product, it’s sad that is how they choose to do business.
Dont like that bohler k890 because its not stainless.
No worries, we're working on stainless options too. The Magnacut is mostly fine but these issues recently will mean we won't be offering it for very much longer, if they can't get this type of stuff under control. No changes were happening when I tried to handle this quietly with them, so we're going public, to hopefully create a higher level of accountability. I just want the best for you guys.
I tell you what, if you legit have that much trouble with the magnacut, I'm willing to pay the difference for whatever steel in your judgement would give the next best performance. You're not the only one left holding the bag here, and I have not been quiet about my disappointment, but if you legit want to make this right, I am willing to pay the difference for the blade material of your choice. I want a tool I can use. I would even be willing to discuss paying the full price for a Bohler GSO 5.1 if you can give me a real delivery date and meet it. Your being transparent, and I am going to make this offer to you in front of everyone who sees this video....and if you can't take either of those approaches, you can tell me why right here in front of everyone too.
*Homogeneity
Yeah, I looked it up immediately after I stopped filming. Try saying that 10 times fast. Haha
America living up to it's reputation for high quality (lol) at fair costs (lmao). Easy solution. The US is a sinking ship. Buying American is objectively dumb. China can do anything the US can do and they can it better and for a fraction of the cost. End of story. That doesn't work here because they dont really have an industry like this that's available to clients around the world right now but that's coming. Yeah, of course European steel is higher quality. Why wouldnt it be? They don't hate their jobs, they actually take their jobs very seriously, they're well trained, they invest in maintaining and upgrading things... You can't even order a sandwich in the US without a 50/50 shot that it's going to be wrong in some way. I went to 711 the other day and they gave me $20 of free gas. I went again and I was overcharged, they charged me $30 for something that should have been $15. These careless mistakes occur ALL THE TIME in the US and very rarely in other developed countries. If you drop a wrench in a German workshop, you're getting sent home. You keep at it and you will lose your job and be sent for retraining. Try hiring a mover in the US and then watch a video of how it's done in Japan. The US is world's leading S hole country. The best example of this is healthcare where Americans are spending A LOT more than any other country in the world yet the US ranks last in terms of health outcomes. Careless mistakes by American doctors literally kill a quarter of million Americans a year, medical error, mostly careless mistakes and general carelessness is the 3rd leading cause of DEATH in the US today. Wake up.
Get out of my head. lol I can't disagree with anything you've said.
"Most researchead steel ever" ... Bullshit.
I think that exact same thing every time I'm working with it. Like, verbatim.
Seems like they all need to be serial numbered with manufactured lot numbers and manufacturing date. There has to be more voids hidden and they are going to break. You can’t afford to be spending 20% of your time working on a blade that has to be sent back after you already put time and effort into it.
Now you have to make a video using up more of your time that could be used elsewhere. So frustrating.
Yeah, moving forward we're going to know exactly what knives are made from what sheets. We've had very good judgement on what blems we let out of the shop but we're also looking at what inspection equipment we can get, so we can avoid pushing substandard materials through production, only to find issues after we've already put so much time and effort into them. It's been frustrating, I'm glad we finally have better access to Bohler Uddeholm products.
Awesome:)