The first practice freezer was solid. Then you stepped up and hit it. I was like... maybe you only freeze on the practice? Then you put up your admission and I realized you are human. One of us. Great video. The day some coach can figure out how to trick the brain to replicate the practice swing immediately after said practice swing will be the day the greatest coach to ever live is* made. Edit @@ericzellershow
This is anecdotal, but when I watched Phil's short game video and followed his "Hinge and Hold " principles, my chipping went from shit to really good in a month. I had been usimg the standard "ball between your feet, use the bounce...etc" and when I was perfect, it worked great, but if I wasn't it was either topped across the green or dug in. The method works sure, but the margin of error is very very narrow. Phil's method seems to be more forgiving
"my chipping went from shit to really good" 🤣.... same here... if ur struggling, just switch up to a pitching wedge for chipping... stay away from 60 - 58 - 52 - 50... when u get better than experiment with loftier wedge..
I think another pro advocating the bounce method with an upright club (no shaft lean) is PGA pro Scott Stallings. I tried it, but couldn’t do it because I’ve followed Phil’s method for decades.
My wedge game improved dramatically by using a more open face and using the bounce off tight lies. The reason chipping r hand only works is players left hand stops or yips in downswing. Use both hands and think hit ball with back of left hand and entire left side.
Look at Hovland’s Strokes Gained around the green this year. He’s ranked 173rd on the PGA Tour. Is it possible that if you rely on the leading edge, you can chip extremely well if you’re on like he did last year. But if you’re slightly off it can be go awry very quickly?
Each shot depends on the grass and lie, sometimes its bounce and sometimes it's leading edge,, how ever for every lie and shot you have to control the bottom of the arc. Matt Fitzpatrick uses the left hand low method to get consistency with the bottom of the arc and its a great drill to help you get the feeling of this. I dont use it in play like Matt but at the start of practice I do it to get a consistent feeling of where the bottom of the arc is. I definitely recommend you try this as a drill.
Definitely going to work on left hand low in addition to one handed chipping as I began the warrior’s journey to becoming the best chipper in the world.
It’s so crazy because I use to use the bounce, and was so good at it, then I lost it.. Lucky for me I’m so good putting from the fringe.. As soon as my practice green open, I plan on hitting 100 chips per day.
Really good overview by Brendon. I used "Hinge and Hold" successfully for years and got the yips trying to "use the bounce" from lessons. I feel like I wasted 5 years practicing this technique. I was successful on the practice green but under pressure on the course I leaned the shaft and had countless skulled shots and was terrible from the rough. I also think hinge and hold is misunderstood. You actually unhinge until the shaft is aligned with the left arm. If you play the ball off the front foot there is only a little shaft lean left and the bounce gets on the ground just as the ball is contacted. Off the back foot there is significant shaft lean and the bounce doesn't really come into play. I have played on bermuda most of my life and had no problem with shots into the grain with H&H by using a slightly open face (more bounce) and the ball off the front foot. I have been trying to go back to H&H but I now have some excessive unhinging baked into my motion and my tempo is wrong because each method requires different tempos (IMO). I have been experimenting with more of a Jason Day method lately. Brendon had a recent video on something similar. I volunteer for a couple of tour events every year and get to walk with the players. I pay a lot of attention to chipping and here's what I noticed from pros: 1) Lots of different techniques even by the same player depending on the lie 2) they are mostly ball first (you can hear it) 3) they play on lightening fast greens and frequently need more spin than required on non-tourney courses.
Brendon has made many GREAT videos, but his comment about chipping with rt hand only for shallow is a great drill. His comment about leading edge with shallow is an awesome take.
It’s a spectrum. Some shots call for bounce, some don’t. In general you should do the easiest shot available. But some people are good at steep chipping (like Wesley Bryan) and others are good at shallow (Jayson Day), so “easiest” is always relative. The type of wedge you have while learning to chip will shape your technique as well. I can only use a 10 degree 60. If you give me 8 or 12 I will duff everything until I adjust. Fwiw I’m just a 0 handicap, not a pro golfer.
I think it's not just about technique, but also conditions and equipment. Pros play on meticulously groomed fairways, their wedges are customized to suit their technique, amateurs don't have these luxuries. Using a steep angle of attack on bare lies, muddy lies, or hard pan is a recipe for disaster. Shallow angle of attack with a high bounce wedge can also lead to problems like blading the ball.
This game will drive u crazy if u practice too much. I don' even practice anymore. Just go out there and figure it out on one of the holes. I don' even go to range anymore. I golfed enough to know what I need to do. LMAO My two cents.. What works for me is to slow down my upswing and downswing and speed up gradually the moment I can feel the clubhead make contact. This works for all clubs but especially for short game. For some reason, when I slow down the swing up to the moment of contact, the club seem to do all the work. Ball flight flies straighter to the green.
Practicing too much usually just imbeds bad habits. Best to play the course and adapt to each shot as it comes up. Grinding away on a practice range is soul and game destroying
Agreed. I'm 74 now and I play about 3 times a month and the only practice I get is a little putting if I'm early enough at the course. For chipping, I use a 7, 8, or 9 iron close to the green and try to get it rolling as quickly as possible. I only use a wedge to loft the ball over something from 10 to 20 yards out and I try to use the leading edge as I've skulled more than a few trying the bounce.
Bob Vokey says that wedge bounce is "your friend" because it can help with forgiveness, control, and ball spin on all wedge shots Brendan DeVore - Has a different opinion. All good. There are 2 camps. I’ll listen to Bob on this one. It works for me. Very well.
Hi mate the correct debate should be do Idrive the handle or release the club? Usually driving the handle will require focus on the leading edge where as releasing can utilise the bounce if needed. Its not about using the bounce, it's about having bounce as back up. This is done by at first set-up and then knowing how to release through the ball. The right hand drill is teaching you to release that's why it works. You're utilising the weight of the club which engages the body and thus allows you to use the big muscles through the ball. People get in trouble being leading edge dominant because there is too much focus on the hands and as a result the angle gets steep.
I saw some video of Phil recently where he wants people to have fast hands (but slow clubhead) when chipping/pitching which lines up with your drive the handle. From my understanding the shortgamechef camp wants you to intentionally use the bounce (versus having it as backup).
@@ericzellershow obviously Phil and Spieth are phenomenal hands players. The interesting thing about driving the handle is that it tends to work when you're young probably because you have less trauma if you it fat lol. The reason why I say that is that the amount of players that come to me for a lesson after chipping this way successfully when they're young but always seem to have real trouble when they're older. It's always the same. Their hands get really quick outpacing their body and their path as a result gets very steep. Once they use the right hand drill they can finally feel the club release and the body move back and through. Instantly they start chipping better. However if u can do leading edge, the results are obviously there too but it seems to be the technique that can lead people into a lot of trouble in the long run.
@@davitiger14 Phil points out in a recent video that you’ve got to use your shoulders on the way back (versus just your arms and hands). I think the teaching trend was/is going to use the bounce..but then Joseph Mayo fixed Hovland’s chipping by going leading edge. As Brendon points out..pros are playing on different conditions than those of us at 40 dollar munis.
I worked at CompuSport for several years in the 90s ( Dr Mann’s company) and we digitized over 100 players at Disney tour stop and the players were using the leading edge overwhelmingly. Forget these gurus and their theories we just didn’t see that in what the players were doing. It isn’t about V or U. None of the guys are steep on any of their shots. Handle up through impact absolutely. But hands ahead and forward lean at the same time.
@@ericzellershow I definitely work on handle up coming into my full shots (via extending the pelvis). Video of Hogan in his prime show him really extending the pelvis as the left leg is straightening. It is a great goal. Hogan talked about having his stomach face the target at impact. He never really did this until P8 but it is a great goal to have. Good luck with it. It _may_ be harder to feel it with shorter pitches and chips though.
The problem with the discussion is “shallow” is -6 and “steep” is -10. They’re really not all that different. If you need more spin (increase spin loft), you can either increase the loft, or decrease the AoA. Why sub 30 launch is so important vs 33 launch is something I have not heard a great reason for.
Freezer drill! its not even chilled! But stop and go is a great drill,i used to do it and ive got a good short game but as ive had a few duffs recently even resorted to hybrid chip/putts i gave it another go Instant improvement! Felt my lower back muscles not being used for stability strength and movement, now they are ive got soft heavy passive arms and coming in shallower Thanks As regards bounce/leading edge practice chipping on a green without leaving a mark! when nones around i think its somewhere between the two as leading edge would dig and bounce would thin but its def gotta be shallow
I used to teach. The first time it ever clicked for me - it being the proper use of bounce - was after watching a video by Joe Mayo and Grant Waite! He was talking about really shallow angles of attack, showing some bounce, and being able to get away with slightly heavy contact... That drop kick that was mentioned. (I.e. - the opposite of what was characterized here. Now, part of that may simply be the difference between chipping and pitching, and a given golfer or teacher's definition of each.) I doubt he's dogmatic about this leading edge stuff. It is simply science though, that to get the most possible spin - to work on spinloft! The difference between Angle of attack and dynamic loft. So I really doubt that Joe Mayo is taking a 15 handicapper and giving him this supposed leading edge downward striking chipping style. I bet it's mostly for low single digits and pros that want to maximize spin. And don't get me wrong, not every pro wants to maximize spin on every chip or pitch. (Hovland has a variety of shots, obviously.)
Pants, try keeping the last 3 fingers of your left hand off the grip, so that the right hand still has majority of control. For me this has transformed 15+ years of chipping yips into a reasonably reliable short game. You still feel like you're conventional as opposed to getting weird looks and comments going one handed.
One of my fave topics. I wrote a small book but lost it. In short Phil hits every bounce and leading edge shot. He talks about leaning more left for tighter lies regardless of shot. IMO if you don’t have a leading edge game and an open face/bounce game you become very limited around the greens and out to 75 yards. The key to short game is knowing how to stay on the left since and then learning how to hit every shot from every lie. That’s why pros says you have to read the lie even in the fairway before deciding what you can do. If all you have is one thing, there’s not much options for what you can do. BBPG that one hand drill really helps you but do it with different ball positions and different degrees of opening the face. That’s the short version. BBPG please rip apart the pga tour commissioners waste of time presser today.
@@ericzellershowmost everything you drop is pretty good but your iconic stuff is your 1 man breakdowns using a little thing called evidence (like your usga rules stuff and …you know.) It’s been a minute since the last one.
Just started watching this but the leading edge is where it’s at, everything short game is off the back foot unless it’s a flop then the front foot the way Phil describes. This new way of chipping in the middle, hitting it fat intentionally using the bounce is unbelievably inconsistent with too many variables added if you want to be a great chipper. If you need/want bounce simply open the blade. This new method is for weekend players who are content with being mediocre because of its bigger margin for error, if you want to be good you’re not hitting the ground first. Also there’s so many different shots & lies that dictate the type of shot you’d want to play that takes this new method out of play completely. Left hand is the control hand for precision, it’s basic physics pulling vs push.
As much as I was a Phil Mickelson fan, and as incredible as he was at hitting impossible wedge shots, Here's his strokes gained around the green rankings: 2004 - 43rd in strokes gained 2005 - 12th 2006 - 66th 2007 - 5th 2008 - 15th 2009 - 6th 2010 - 32nd 2011 - 14th 2012 - 6th 2013-2014 - 28th 2014 - 2015 - 34th Leading edge is good on certain lies. But short game expert Dan Grieve teaches use the bounce.
@@ericzellershow True. Also more tour wins. Other short game gurus also say to use more bounce on most shots. There are many factors involved. Club choice. How much bounce is on the wedge. Grass type. Lie. How club is delivered. Wrist, hands, arms and rotation. Too much to consider that can influence the shot.
@@guitar1950 my short game drastically improved when I started using the bounce. Basically you want to have as many shots in your bag as possible. I don’t feel comfortable using the bounce off of tight lies.
So why did Vokey etc design wedges with bounce if we are not to use it for chipping but maybe only in the bunker? If the bounce is there only for the bunker that's mean we should have wedges for the fairway only? How about your irons, are we to take the bounce off of the iron too? l think there is no right/wrong way, what's right for one may not be for the next one over. l just watched Joe and his teaching and that makes a whole lot more sense to me than what l learned from others. Whatever is right or good according to your brain that's the correct one.
@@ericzellershow That's exactly my point, there's not one size fits in the golf swing or chipping etc. Gigi, l love his swing but who's going to tell him he better stop? even his putting and chipping it's so unconventional and l wish l could do it but l can't because l suck at golf lol. That's what we should do it NOT pinch one theory against another explain each theory and its benefits.
@@ericzellershow this short video made a big difference to my chipping. It doesn't mean you won't stuff up a chip any more but hit far fewer. th-cam.com/video/28K0LUwC9aE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Xj-I_7eImINC_aii
And it makes sense because one handed makes you feel the weight of the clubhead more which is vital. Its why I keep left hand as light as possible on the club, its just along for the ride. Shoulder turn should be much more horizontal as opposed to a tilting action used in the full swing. Shallows delivery thru impact.
The main reason golf is 2 handed game is due to the weight of the implement wielded and an inert hard ball. Right hand only is a great drill But remember it is positioned and moves weakly, with no structure So you have to use and coordinate your big muscles and ground pressure to make consistent contact and control various distances. In other words it massively improves your movement and athletic skills! Left arm only is positioned in a more powerful position and i can hit longer full swings left arm only than right even tho im right handed! But can only hit low solid left arm only chips with little distance control/feel
Why have a right and a wrong way? There are times you can implement either technique and just gives you more options for your arsenal and making it easier to adapt to different surfaces.
@@ericzellershow well the title is ‘should you use the leading edge or the bounce’ and that’s what the big picture argument seems to be at the moment. why choose? just different techniques and you don’t need to fall into a category, you can learn from and use both successfully.
@@mntlblok I’m familiar with 84 releases. 7 of which have been deemed illegal. 8 of which are still seeking government approval. So you need to be more specific.
Depends on the person a well as the shot. There are tons of variables that are employed here! The person is going to have a very specific stroke the equipment should fit that stroke depends on the type of lie you have the type of situation the type of release everything else you can think of. This isn't a one or the other type of situation. It's like if there was a video for baseball pictures and it said should you throw a fastball or curveball the answer is yes.
Depends on the batter and the pitch count. Analogous to the lie on the golf course. However, what the leading edge vs the bounce is referring to is specifically the terminology that Joe Mayo and The Shortgame Chef use. Mayo talks about the leading edge. SGC refers to the bounce.
@@ericzellershow so leading edge out of bunkers, deep rough, tight lies, hard pan, wet conditions? Use bounce for tight dry fairways, hard sand, extra fluffy grass??? In chipping and pitching there's a common concept of some people are diggers some people are Pickers and some people are sweepers. When you factor everything in your equipment should fit your stroke and it's going to be very short specific. I highly doubt any professional golfer is just using the Leading Edge or just using the bounce primarily. If they do maybe they've committed to one stroke and that's fine too. My point was that it's not as cut and dry as one or the other unless you're going to work through all the variables and possibilities and find things that match you your stroke and your equipment. So my point about the pitcher in baseball was that some have a specialty pitch they use but they also use a bunch of different types of techniques. Either way it's not something you just have a generic approach to. It takes time and effort to figure out which one you are and which one to stick with. One type might not work for you! Back to the analogy of a baseball pitcher some I might have a super fast fastball so you wouldn't take that person to make them a knuckleball pitcher because the short game Chef said that's the better technique.
Havent watched all of video yet But Phil and Speith are both lead side dominant ie they are left handed playing right speith and rh playing left Phil so are tuned in to the leading edge
@@ericzellershow Golf has turned me almost ambidextrous! but im still right handed ie i can have a gentle rally left handed at table tennis i would have whiffed every time b4 golf, its a weird feeling!
If you are asking that question, you don't understand what either player was trying to tell you. Bounce and raised leading edge chips are intended for different near green situations. The entire game is in the dirt itself, and the tools intereact with said dirt differently in different conditions. You need to learn these conditions to chose the most appropriate technique. I'm not going to try to summarize all of them, but I will say that if you chose the wrong chip shot for the wrong conditions, your shot will turn out terribly no matter how good your skill at hitting the ball... 😮
The one thing these techniques never take in account is the type of courses they are playing on. I the PNW all the courses are wet and soft. If you use the leading edge you will dig all the time
Brendon clearly says that the PGAT courses conditions make it more favorable to using the bounce. Whereas many of us don’t play on that type of agronomy.
Bounce is over rated but people chip with too much loft. That causes most of the problems. You only need 56-60 degrees of loft hitting out of deep bunkers or flopping over the bunker to a pin close to the bunker. Chip with 9 iron or pw and hit it like a putter. People flub chips because they are trying to chip a lob wedge to pin that's 50 ft away.
This guy has no idea what he’s talking about. If you know how to use the bounce correctly you can literally hit it 6 inches behind the ball off a green and not thin it. Do not listen to this hack.
@@ericzellershow obviously mayo's technique can work, but the moron saying that using the bounce causes people to blade it is a hack. There are people all over the spectrum. Jason Day has a generational short game and is as shallow as can be while using the bounce. When low point doesn't matter it is *way* easier to not fuck up. Not saying Mayo's technique is bad, again.
Totally agree. I like chipping with the leading edge. Bounce brings too many disaster scenarios into play. Phil has it right
Yeah if you like fat shots and bladed rockets use the leading edge
@@jdheelfanlol
The music really emphasizes how heroic you are. Jake Spann Golf would never show such an act of bravery
Nothing says “hero” like chipping with only one hand.
Or closing eye’s with one hand! 😆@@ericzellershow
@@ericzellershow lol. you were impressive w the 1 handed chipping
Bro, I liltterally LOL at those freezers. LOVE the GRIND!
I can’t do freezers. Yet.
The first practice freezer was solid. Then you stepped up and hit it. I was like... maybe you only freeze on the practice? Then you put up your admission and I realized you are human. One of us. Great video. The day some coach can figure out how to trick the brain to replicate the practice swing immediately after said practice swing will be the day the greatest coach to ever live is* made.
Edit @@ericzellershow
@@joewiley6927 freezers are ridiculously hard for me. On any shot: chips, putts, pitches, full swings. I’m too used to just slapping at the ball.
This is anecdotal, but when I watched Phil's short game video and followed his "Hinge and Hold " principles, my chipping went from shit to really good in a month. I had been usimg the standard "ball between your feet, use the bounce...etc" and when I was perfect, it worked great, but if I wasn't it was either topped across the green or dug in. The method works sure, but the margin of error is very very narrow. Phil's method seems to be more forgiving
What I found shocking was that I am best going one handed. At least in practice.
@@ericzellershow i suspect you are guilty of top hand steering
@@macheesmo3 it’s something much more sinister than that.
"my chipping went from shit to really good" 🤣.... same here... if ur struggling, just switch up to a pitching wedge for chipping... stay away from 60 - 58 - 52 - 50... when u get better than experiment with loftier wedge..
Head completely still on ball works about everytime ! It's that temptation to peek ! You can over complicate it !
I think another pro advocating the bounce method with an upright club (no shaft lean) is PGA pro Scott Stallings. I tried it, but couldn’t do it because I’ve followed Phil’s method for decades.
My wedge game improved dramatically by using a more open face and using the bounce off tight lies. The reason chipping r hand only works is players left hand stops or yips in downswing. Use both hands and think hit ball with back of left hand and entire left side.
Hair looks great,you and Joey cold cuts,best hair on the tube
This is going on the fridge.
Look at Hovland’s Strokes Gained around the green this year. He’s ranked 173rd on the PGA Tour. Is it possible that if you rely on the leading edge, you can chip extremely well if you’re on like he did last year. But if you’re slightly off it can be go awry very quickly?
Totally possible. But then look at Morikawa when he blew the 6 stroke lead in Hawaii.
Each shot depends on the grass and lie, sometimes its bounce and sometimes it's leading edge,, how ever for every lie and shot you have to control the bottom of the arc. Matt Fitzpatrick uses the left hand low method to get consistency with the bottom of the arc and its a great drill to help you get the feeling of this. I dont use it in play like Matt but at the start of practice I do it to get a consistent feeling of where the bottom of the arc is. I definitely recommend you try this as a drill.
Definitely going to work on left hand low in addition to one handed chipping as I began the warrior’s journey to becoming the best chipper in the world.
Left hand low chipping/pitching is like the broomstick putter. It's great for people who have the yips.
It’s so crazy because I use to use the bounce, and was so good at it, then I lost it.. Lucky for me I’m so good putting from the fringe.. As soon as my practice green open, I plan on hitting 100 chips per day.
You can’t putt from the fringe forever.
Really good overview by Brendon. I used "Hinge and Hold" successfully for years and got the yips trying to "use the bounce" from lessons. I feel like I wasted 5 years practicing this technique. I was successful on the practice green but under pressure on the course I leaned the shaft and had countless skulled shots and was terrible from the rough. I also think hinge and hold is misunderstood. You actually unhinge until the shaft is aligned with the left arm. If you play the ball off the front foot there is only a little shaft lean left and the bounce gets on the ground just as the ball is contacted. Off the back foot there is significant shaft lean and the bounce doesn't really come into play. I have played on bermuda most of my life and had no problem with shots into the grain with H&H by using a slightly open face (more bounce) and the ball off the front foot. I have been trying to go back to H&H but I now have some excessive unhinging baked into my motion and my tempo is wrong because each method requires different tempos (IMO). I have been experimenting with more of a Jason Day method lately. Brendon had a recent video on something similar.
I volunteer for a couple of tour events every year and get to walk with the players. I pay a lot of attention to chipping and here's what I noticed from pros: 1) Lots of different techniques even by the same player depending on the lie 2) they are mostly ball first (you can hear it) 3) they play on lightening fast greens and frequently need more spin than required on non-tourney courses.
You just put out a great analysis of hinge and hold! I may be going to cross handed and one handed chipping.
Brendon has made many GREAT videos, but his comment about chipping with rt hand only for shallow is a great drill. His comment about leading edge with shallow is an awesome take.
Questionable use of the word “but” here.
Pants, you need to rotate your body a little when chipping. Remember what Saguto would say. “The golf swing is a circle on an inclined plane”
Thank you, outstanding video
@@jsilva3386 boo yah!
It’s a spectrum. Some shots call for bounce, some don’t. In general you should do the easiest shot available. But some people are good at steep chipping (like Wesley Bryan) and others are good at shallow (Jayson Day), so “easiest” is always relative.
The type of wedge you have while learning to chip will shape your technique as well. I can only use a 10 degree 60. If you give me 8 or 12 I will duff everything until I adjust.
Fwiw I’m just a 0 handicap, not a pro golfer.
“Just a zero.” The best golf humble brag there is.
@@ericzellershow0’s are a dime a dozen at the girls golf academy in Seoul
@@isambo400 that’s ridiculous
@@ericzellershow lol classic
You can do both though. Hands ahead to keep the leading edge. But, if you have a downward AoA, you will impact the ground with the bounce.
I think it's not just about technique, but also conditions and equipment. Pros play on meticulously groomed fairways, their wedges are customized to suit their technique, amateurs don't have these luxuries. Using a steep angle of attack on bare lies, muddy lies, or hard pan is a recipe for disaster. Shallow angle of attack with a high bounce wedge can also lead to problems like blading the ball.
This game will drive u crazy if u practice too much. I don' even practice anymore. Just go out there and figure it out on one of the holes. I don' even go to range anymore. I golfed enough to know what I need to do. LMAO My two cents.. What works for me is to slow down my upswing and downswing and speed up gradually the moment I can feel the clubhead make contact. This works for all clubs but especially for short game. For some reason, when I slow down the swing up to the moment of contact, the club seem to do all the work. Ball flight flies straighter to the green.
I need to do this more
Practicing too much usually just imbeds bad habits. Best to play the course and adapt to each shot as it comes up. Grinding away on a practice range is soul and game destroying
Agreed. I'm 74 now and I play about 3 times a month and the only practice I get is a little putting if I'm early enough at the course. For chipping, I use a 7, 8, or 9 iron close to the green and try to get it rolling as quickly as possible. I only use a wedge to loft the ball over something from 10 to 20 yards out and I try to use the leading edge as I've skulled more than a few trying the bounce.
Only time I used bounce is in sand. I'm not conscious of using edge or bounce when chipping. Whatever works for the particular shot. @@Diogenes-ty9yy
Bob Vokey says that wedge bounce is "your friend" because it can help with forgiveness, control, and ball spin on all wedge shots
Brendan DeVore - Has a different opinion. All good. There are 2 camps. I’ll listen to Bob on this one. It works for me. Very well.
Hi mate the correct debate should be do Idrive the handle or release the club? Usually driving the handle will require focus on the leading edge where as releasing can utilise the bounce if needed. Its not about using the bounce, it's about having bounce as back up. This is done by at first set-up and then knowing how to release through the ball. The right hand drill is teaching you to release that's why it works. You're utilising the weight of the club which engages the body and thus allows you to use the big muscles through the ball. People get in trouble being leading edge dominant because there is too much focus on the hands and as a result the angle gets steep.
I saw some video of Phil recently where he wants people to have fast hands (but slow clubhead) when chipping/pitching which lines up with your drive the handle. From my understanding the shortgamechef camp wants you to intentionally use the bounce (versus having it as backup).
@@ericzellershow obviously Phil and Spieth are phenomenal hands players. The interesting thing about driving the handle is that it tends to work when you're young probably because you have less trauma if you it fat lol. The reason why I say that is that the amount of players that come to me for a lesson after chipping this way successfully when they're young but always seem to have real trouble when they're older. It's always the same. Their hands get really quick outpacing their body and their path as a result gets very steep. Once they use the right hand drill they can finally feel the club release and the body move back and through. Instantly they start chipping better. However if u can do leading edge, the results are obviously there too but it seems to be the technique that can lead people into a lot of trouble in the long run.
@@davitiger14 Phil points out in a recent video that you’ve got to use your shoulders on the way back (versus just your arms and hands). I think the teaching trend was/is going to use the bounce..but then Joseph Mayo fixed Hovland’s chipping by going leading edge. As Brendon points out..pros are playing on different conditions than those of us at 40 dollar munis.
I've worked on being more chipper. I've been in the roughedness. Just watch the ball closely.
I worked at CompuSport for several years in the 90s ( Dr Mann’s company) and we digitized over 100 players at Disney tour stop and the players were using the leading edge overwhelmingly. Forget these gurus and their theories we just didn’t see that in what the players were doing. It isn’t about V or U. None of the guys are steep on any of their shots. Handle up through impact absolutely. But hands ahead and forward lean at the same time.
I’ve got to work on handle up through impact versus just stabbing at it.
@@ericzellershow I definitely work on handle up coming into my full shots (via extending the pelvis). Video of Hogan in his prime show him really extending the pelvis as the left leg is straightening. It is a great goal. Hogan talked about having his stomach face the target at impact. He never really did this until P8 but it is a great goal to have. Good luck with it. It _may_ be harder to feel it with shorter pitches and chips though.
I really tried the leading edge technique and I was hitting too many hot shots. And it just doesn’t work for me in very short chips.
Try it one handed: ball comes off very soft.
Bounce = SKULL. Dead hand wedge always. No to flop shots
Sometimes the Hail Mary flop shot is the only shot we have.
The problem with the discussion is “shallow” is -6 and “steep” is -10. They’re really not all that different. If you need more spin (increase spin loft), you can either increase the loft, or decrease the AoA. Why sub 30 launch is so important vs 33 launch is something I have not heard a great reason for.
Freezer drill! its not even chilled! But stop and go is a great drill,i used to do it and ive got a good short game but as ive had a few duffs recently even resorted to hybrid chip/putts i gave it another go
Instant improvement!
Felt my lower back muscles not being used for stability strength and movement, now they are ive got soft heavy passive arms and coming in shallower Thanks
As regards bounce/leading edge practice chipping on a green without leaving a mark! when nones around
i think its somewhere between the two as leading edge would dig and bounce would thin but its def gotta be shallow
I used to teach. The first time it ever clicked for me - it being the proper use of bounce - was after watching a video by Joe Mayo and Grant Waite! He was talking about really shallow angles of attack, showing some bounce, and being able to get away with slightly heavy contact... That drop kick that was mentioned. (I.e. - the opposite of what was characterized here. Now, part of that may simply be the difference between chipping and pitching, and a given golfer or teacher's definition of each.)
I doubt he's dogmatic about this leading edge stuff. It is simply science though, that to get the most possible spin - to work on spinloft! The difference between Angle of attack and dynamic loft.
So I really doubt that Joe Mayo is taking a 15 handicapper and giving him this supposed leading edge downward striking chipping style. I bet it's mostly for low single digits and pros that want to maximize spin. And don't get me wrong, not every pro wants to maximize spin on every chip or pitch. (Hovland has a variety of shots, obviously.)
Pants, try keeping the last 3 fingers of your left hand off the grip, so that the right hand still has majority of control. For me this has transformed 15+ years of chipping yips into a reasonably reliable short game. You still feel like you're conventional as opposed to getting weird looks and comments going one handed.
Going to try this. Or Botox my left hand before chip shots.
Can confirm botox also produces results
@@ericzellershow lol classic
One of my fave topics. I wrote a small book but lost it.
In short Phil hits every bounce and leading edge shot. He talks about leaning more left for tighter lies regardless of shot.
IMO if you don’t have a leading edge game and an open face/bounce game you become very limited around the greens and out to 75 yards.
The key to short game is knowing how to stay on the left since and then learning how to hit every shot from every lie. That’s why pros says you have to read the lie even in the fairway before deciding what you can do. If all you have is one thing, there’s not much options for what you can do.
BBPG that one hand drill really helps you but do it with different ball positions and different degrees of opening the face.
That’s the short version.
BBPG please rip apart the pga tour commissioners waste of time presser today.
Monahan says the same thing each time.
@@ericzellershowsure does.
@@ericzellershowmost everything you drop is pretty good but your iconic stuff is your 1 man breakdowns using a little thing called evidence (like your usga rules stuff and …you know.)
It’s been a minute since the last one.
Grab an old sand iron from the 70's and practice with it. It will make you hit with your hands forward and at a better angle!
Just started watching this but the leading edge is where it’s at, everything short game is off the back foot unless it’s a flop then the front foot the way Phil describes. This new way of chipping in the middle, hitting it fat intentionally using the bounce is unbelievably inconsistent with too many variables added if you want to be a great chipper. If you need/want bounce simply open the blade. This new method is for weekend players who are content with being mediocre because of its bigger margin for error, if you want to be good you’re not hitting the ground first. Also there’s so many different shots & lies that dictate the type of shot you’d want to play that takes this new method out of play completely. Left hand is the control hand for precision, it’s basic physics pulling vs push.
Wedge Wizard: good stuff. Please add your input once you’ve finished the vid and give it a yay or nay.
As much as I was a Phil Mickelson fan, and as incredible as he was at hitting impossible wedge shots, Here's his strokes gained around the green rankings:
2004 - 43rd in strokes gained
2005 - 12th
2006 - 66th
2007 - 5th
2008 - 15th
2009 - 6th
2010 - 32nd
2011 - 14th
2012 - 6th
2013-2014 - 28th
2014 - 2015 - 34th
Leading edge is good on certain lies. But short game expert Dan Grieve teaches use the bounce.
Phil does have more major wins than Dan.
@@ericzellershow True. Also more tour wins. Other short game gurus also say to use more bounce on most shots. There are many factors involved. Club choice. How much bounce is on the wedge. Grass type. Lie. How club is delivered. Wrist, hands, arms and rotation. Too much to consider that can influence the shot.
@@guitar1950 my short game drastically improved when I started using the bounce. Basically you want to have as many shots in your bag as possible. I don’t feel comfortable using the bounce off of tight lies.
@@ericzellershow Yes, bounce is your friend but not on tight lies!
So why did Vokey etc design wedges with bounce if we are not to use it for chipping but maybe only in the bunker? If the bounce is there only for the bunker that's mean we should have wedges for the fairway only? How about your irons, are we to take the bounce off of the iron too? l think there is no right/wrong way, what's right for one may not be for the next one over. l just watched Joe and his teaching and that makes a whole lot more sense to me than what l learned from others. Whatever is right or good according to your brain that's the correct one.
@@sepetisionelatu5539 both methods work. Really depends on the individual and the course conditions.
@@ericzellershow That's exactly my point, there's not one size fits in the golf swing or chipping etc. Gigi, l love his swing but who's going to tell him he better stop? even his putting and chipping it's so unconventional and l wish l could do it but l can't because l suck at golf lol. That's what we should do it NOT pinch one theory against another explain each theory and its benefits.
@ you can compare and contrast different methods and come to your own conclusion.
@ agree to agree.
I think people chip better one handed because they rotate better one handed. Body and club are synced better
This makes complete sense. When I use both hands I use zero body and just stab at the ball.
@@ericzellershow this short video made a big difference to my chipping. It doesn't mean you won't stuff up a chip any more but hit far fewer.
th-cam.com/video/28K0LUwC9aE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Xj-I_7eImINC_aii
And it makes sense because one handed makes you feel the weight of the clubhead more which is vital. Its why I keep left hand as light as possible on the club, its just along for the ride. Shoulder turn should be much more horizontal as opposed to a tilting action used in the full swing. Shallows delivery thru impact.
The main reason golf is 2 handed game is due to the weight of the implement wielded and an inert hard ball.
Right hand only is a great drill But remember it is positioned and moves weakly, with no structure
So you have to use and coordinate your big muscles and ground pressure to make consistent contact and control various distances.
In other words it massively improves your movement and athletic skills!
Left arm only is positioned in a more powerful position and i can hit longer full swings left arm only than right even tho im right handed!
But can only hit low solid left arm only chips with little distance control/feel
I am a 4 handicap and my chipping was DOG SHIT! I learned to use the BOUNCE and became an average chipper.
I am not sure if this is good or bad or you should be trying to try another method to get to “great chipper” level.
Pants, we gotta talk...pretty sure ur freezers are completely thawed bro ;)
I thought I was doing freezers until I saw the video. It’s gonna take a minute.
Why have a right and a wrong way? There are times you can implement either technique and just gives you more options for your arsenal and making it easier to adapt to different surfaces.
Does the video say right and wrong?
@@ericzellershow well the title is ‘should you use the leading edge or the bounce’ and that’s what the big picture argument seems to be at the moment. why choose? just different techniques and you don’t need to fall into a category, you can learn from and use both successfully.
Always helps "when the ball is on the ground." No wonder he has a PhD.
lol good one
Is Phil's method a classic case of feel isn't real? What is his attack angle?
Phil is weight on forward foot. So it’s got to be kind of steep.
He exaggerates to get the point across, but everything he says is true.
I'll listen to Dan Grieves when it comes to short game. Best in the world.
What does Grieves say?
What does Grieves say?
@@ericzellershow he uses both. Depends on the situation. His youtube is very good. His book is excellent.
@@ericzellershow Not familiar with his three releases??
@@mntlblok I’m familiar with 84 releases. 7 of which have been deemed illegal. 8 of which are still seeking government approval. So you need to be more specific.
I’m better at one hand chipping than two handed.
It’s weird how I am too. But never gave it a try until post this chat with Brendon.
Jday uses the bounce.....how well he been the last few years?
Yes, but he’s playing courses in great condition. I’m on golf courses straight out of Naked and Afraid.
Depends on the person a well as the shot. There are tons of variables that are employed here! The person is going to have a very specific stroke the equipment should fit that stroke depends on the type of lie you have the type of situation the type of release everything else you can think of. This isn't a one or the other type of situation. It's like if there was a video for baseball pictures and it said should you throw a fastball or curveball the answer is yes.
Depends on the batter and the pitch count. Analogous to the lie on the golf course. However, what the leading edge vs the bounce is referring to is specifically the terminology that Joe Mayo and The Shortgame Chef use. Mayo talks about the leading edge. SGC refers to the bounce.
@@ericzellershow so leading edge out of bunkers, deep rough, tight lies, hard pan, wet conditions? Use bounce for tight dry fairways, hard sand, extra fluffy grass???
In chipping and pitching there's a common concept of some people are diggers some people are Pickers and some people are sweepers. When you factor everything in your equipment should fit your stroke and it's going to be very short specific. I highly doubt any professional golfer is just using the Leading Edge or just using the bounce primarily. If they do maybe they've committed to one stroke and that's fine too. My point was that it's not as cut and dry as one or the other unless you're going to work through all the variables and possibilities and find things that match you your stroke and your equipment. So my point about the pitcher in baseball was that some have a specialty pitch they use but they also use a bunch of different types of techniques. Either way it's not something you just have a generic approach to. It takes time and effort to figure out which one you are and which one to stick with. One type might not work for you! Back to the analogy of a baseball pitcher some I might have a super fast fastball so you wouldn't take that person to make them a knuckleball pitcher because the short game Chef said that's the better technique.
@@ericzellershow sorry going to Bow out. Tired of these stupid Online technical discussions that don't accomplish anything.
@@jacobr4558 thanks for dropping in!
Havent watched all of video yet But Phil and Speith are both lead side dominant ie they are left handed playing right speith and rh playing left Phil so are tuned in to the leading edge
I just read that Spieth is best classified as ambidextrous
@@ericzellershow Golf has turned me almost ambidextrous! but im still right handed
ie i can have a gentle rally left handed at table tennis i would have whiffed every time b4 golf, its a weird feeling!
PS look at Spieths power strength co-ordination of his left arm through the ball does anyone come close maybe morikawa
@@grahamjones7371 I am 99 percent right handed in everything. I can barely dribble a ball with my left hand.
Leading edge or Bounce? I would have to say it depends on the situation and lie.
Brendon does mention that the lie on the tour lends instead to being more able to use the bounce.
If you are asking that question, you don't understand what either player was trying to tell you.
Bounce and raised leading edge chips are intended for different near green situations.
The entire game is in the dirt itself, and the tools intereact with said dirt differently in different conditions.
You need to learn these conditions to chose the most appropriate technique.
I'm not going to try to summarize all of them, but I will say that if you chose the wrong chip shot for the wrong conditions, your shot will turn out terribly no matter how good your skill at hitting the ball... 😮
Or how good a swing you actually put on the ball... 😊
Asking the wrong questions is a step towards asking the right questions.
The one thing these techniques never take in account is the type of courses they are playing on. I the PNW all the courses are wet and soft. If you use the leading edge you will dig all the time
Brendon clearly says that the PGAT courses conditions make it more favorable to using the bounce. Whereas many of us don’t play on that type of agronomy.
Bounce is over rated but people chip with too much loft. That causes most of the problems. You only need 56-60 degrees of loft hitting out of deep bunkers or flopping over the bunker to a pin close to the bunker. Chip with 9 iron or pw and hit it like a putter. People flub chips because they are trying to chip a lob wedge to pin that's 50 ft away.
@@Gggolfff2780 9 iron is solid - for most people there 9 irons are lofted like 8 irons from 20 years ago.
mentally the ball hypnotises bad chippers and they 100% focus on the ball not the landing zone or picturing the overall carry and run
Now I’m going to be hypnotized by this comment.
Technique depends on lie. You can use both approaches.
@@robertlozano6546 what do you use on a standard lie?
I use leading edge on chips but bounce on mini pitches with standard lies. Utley style technique.
@ Utley is the pros pro for short game.
Have you tried his approach ?
@ I’ve tried every approach. I kind of believe Lee Trevino on some level: with short game feel you either have it or you don’t. I don’t.
I am a leading edge guy
That’s how you start a Ted Talk.
Hitting a golf ball ALWAYS requires the leading edge AND bounce. Jeez!
You had me at fat U bottom.
Fat u bottom girls make the world go round. - Spinal Tap
@@ericzellershow
Bumcakes. 😆
This guy has no idea what he’s talking about. If you know how to use the bounce correctly you can literally hit it 6 inches behind the ball off a green and not thin it. Do not listen to this hack.
Joseph Mayo. Victor Hovland.
@@ericzellershow obviously mayo's technique can work, but the moron saying that using the bounce causes people to blade it is a hack. There are people all over the spectrum. Jason Day has a generational short game and is as shallow as can be while using the bounce. When low point doesn't matter it is *way* easier to not fuck up. Not saying Mayo's technique is bad, again.
bounce is marketing bs
Says golfers that can’t chip.
No it’s not. You just don’t really understand. It’s 2 different techniques that both work.