Almost Misdiagnosed This Mysterious Engine Coolant Leak!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ม.ค. 2024
- We look at a 2017 Toyota Prius 4th genenration for a mysterious coolant leak that has every classic sign of a head gasket leak. Do 4th gen prius models have the same head gasket issues?
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This was a perfect example of why so many of us love your channel. You are a man of integrity and great diagnostic skill. Not to forget that you are an excellent communicator. Thank you, as always, brother.
Great work Ahmed, our 3rd generation is running strong that you repaired (head gasket, egr pump, egr valve, intake manifold, water pump, etc...). You are by far the best mechanic I’ve ever had the privilege of dealing with. May GOD richly bless you for your integrity and hard work. Sean L.
That's a lot of repairs for a supposedly reliable car that's supposed to run forever with just oil changes.
@@chuckwalla2967 it has 195,000 miles
@chuckwalla2967 it's maintenence. You should be doing coolant and transmission fluid changes on every car you've ever owned.....
@@richardvargus7443 sir, I bought the car with 160,000 miles, it a car for our son. We got the car cheap, and knew we would need to put a little money into it, thus we took it to Ahmed whom was much less expensive than anyone I got estimates from including the dealer.
egr pump?
Great job Ahmed! It always pays to check something out in more detail when what you find initially does not make sense. You are a true engineer and mechanic! 👍
Like how you said
"Leaking coolant faster then the intro.
That was rich
This is channel will be at 1 million subscribers in a couple weeks. This is the fastest growing channel on TH-cam. Keep up the great work!
AMD, you are spot on with concluding why the pistons are steam cleaned. It's been a while, and then it developed into a more extensive leak. The Prius has an Atkinson cycle integrated into the stroke, and for a normal engine, that would not occur, but with the Prius, your conclusion is spot on.
Yep, I was going to say does the Atkinson cycle have anything to do with it.
Exhaust blowback getting into cylinders is exactly what I was thinking once I saw the coolant coming out the pipe. But, with the cost of OEM Toyota Cats, I’m not sure how much better your news is LOL
Excellent work. You’re a patient professional mechanic and mentor. Thank you for sharing this experience with us. I learned so much!
This is why you are a toyota master technician. One of my favorite yet. Other shows pre diagnose then film what they found.
Dear car care nut
I own a 2019 Corolla with the 2,0 hybrid engine and had the exactly same issue. The heat Converter in the exhaust had a coolant leak.
I live in denmark and been following you for quit a while.
Keep up your great work on your Channel. I’m enjoying watching your videos a lot, as a Toyota afficonado.
Greetings Erling
A technician like yourself that has experience with the product as well as excellent deductive reasoning skills is worth his weight in gold! Excellent diagnosis and explanation of how you found the problem as usual. Way to go Ahmed!
It was very enlightening to see your careful step-by-step process and analysis in addressing this problem.
Your narrative and explanation of what you were finding, as well as your expressions of curiosity at each step of the way until you arrived at a conclusion that could account for what you were finding, was both entertaining and educational.
A great piece of detective work.
Two Thumbs Up! 👍👍
AMD, I am confident the mystery will not take long to resolve and I bet 940,000 people agree with me. 😁
Not that big of a mystery. Anytime there is a loss of coolant that is not external, that is not leaving evidence of coolant under the vehicle, the source has to be in the engine.
Most V type engines (excepting "dry" manifold types) have coolant passages in the intake manifold, the gasketed joints where the manifold joins the head are a common source especially with plastic intake manifolds when manufacturers "went cheap" and stopped using aluminum or iron intakes. These leaks typically are into the oil resulting in the oil having a "milky" appearance.
Far more rare are leaks through coolant heated throttle bodies (GM loved using those) and coolant heated carburetor spacers (Ford FE engines from 1958-70)
The purpose was to prevent carburetor/throttle body icing in cold and humid conditions.
Rare in the age of iron-over-iron engines, head gasket failures have become an issue because of aluminum heads, and the simple fact of physics that iron and aluminum do not expand and contract at the same rate, as a result newer types of head gaskets and the idiocy of torque-to-yield head fasteners have become common.
EGR, whether cooled or not causes more problems than its worth, the intent is reduction of nitrous oxide in the exhaust, but results in lessened fuel economy, increased intake deposits and reduced performance. I definitely would delete the EGR system if it had the potential of leaking coolant into the engine or exhaust as it did in the video.
@@donreinke5863fail
@@donreinke5863 interesting, would this apply to the 2GR-FE RX350 mine seems to be losing coolant in small amounts but I can't find the leaks.
@@JR-tl8tg
This will be a long upload, but it is the diagnostic procedure I would follow.
What I would do first is to carefully inspect the joint between the head and block as well as all freeze plugs in the block for any evidence of a white colored residue which would be indicative of a small and slow leak, as these are the most common locations for seepage/leaks after hose issues.
It may require a mechanics mirror to inspect some of the areas as they are not easily able to be inspected, especially under/behind exhaust manifolds.
This goes without saying....make sure your heater core is in good shape (not a common problem on Toyota vehicles)
Also look under the oil filler cap and the upper part of the oil dipstick for any sign of a milky substance, which can be indicative of coolant leaking into the oil, but be aware that if you are in a humid climate that may be caused by simple condensation.
If your throttle body has no coolant lines going to it (they will be small diameter hoses, most likely 10mm or 3/8 in) then it does not have a heated throttle body, and therefore would not be a potential leak source.
Im in all honesty not sure about whether your engine has a heated throttle body or not as the engine repairs I have done to Toyota/Lexus SUV engines have not involved an issue of that type that could not directly be assigned to a leaking water pump. leaking hoses/radiator seams or a failed head gasket.
Also be aware that the water pump is concealed under covers and may be seeping without obvious signs of coolant on below the vehicle, this issue I have seen and repaired on Toyota engines.
If no leak has been detected at this point, removal of the spark plugs and inspection of the combustion chamber and pistons is the next step as per the video. If either have little or no carbon deposits that is an indication of coolant leakage into that cylinder, which is strongly indicative of a blown head gasket or cracked cylinder head.......However......
Toyota generally designed and manufactured cylinder heads which were thicker and more robust than most other manufacturers which helped to lessen head gasket issues, but failure is nevertheless a possibility, especially if the engine has ever been overheated.
Ive done mechanical and transmission repair and rebuilding since 1972 on almost all vehicles..
@@donreinke5863 This is by far the most thorough steps and explanation I've come across. Thanks for sharing Don.
Great diagnostic job! Finding out what the problem is BEFORE taking the engine apart, thereby having to take extra time, and costing the customer extra money. I wish that there was someone just like you here on Oahu. If there was I would definitely give them my business. Please continue to make these awesome videos!
LXS Hawaii is great. They're on Punahou St. now.
AMD, you are ONE OF A KIND! Your knowledge and patience is simply legendary!!!
I knew right what it was from the beginning of the video. Saw one at the dealership and Toyota actually issued a TSB for these, they updated the heat exchanger pipe.
Was it covered under powertrain?
Good and Bad news for the owner, I usually associate Prius Head gasket issues with the morning death rattle and will always throw engine codes for misfire and rarely use that much coolant in one day. That cooler is a known problem on the 3rd gen Prius, I just worked on one this week. Good to know that they still have not resolve on the 4th gen.
If they didn't improve these issues on the 4th gen, I'd rather stick to my 3rd gen. The newer car isn't as roomy inside and it's just plain ugly.
I'm doing a "preventative" water pump, thermostat, intake, egr cooler cleaning, pcv valve and new egr valve (just like Ahmed told us to do!) in the hope I won't have to learn how to do a head gasket.
AMD, these cars have a tube that goes from the caralytic converter to the EGR and the gases reburn into the chamber. In this case the coolant is going to the chamber through the tube and EGR.
That is also true. That’s why if catalytic converter on those Toyota engines gets internally destroyed the small dust and pieces get returned into it the cylinders and from there destroy the engine for short time.
No wonder this fellow has a million subscribers. Diagnosis can be the hardest part of the job. No Captain parts cannon here.
I got a 2015 Prius with 133k miles and runs excellent. Great mpg & cheap maintenance. Can’t complain
One of your best videos yet, hats off. I always learn something new watching you videos, even having 30 plus years of experience with mechanical gadgets.
Now could you not just bypass that system to complete some testing in the rest of the engine and find out if its working with no problems?
I was thinking the same thing. I now want to get under my Gen 3 and see if i have the same system
I am 82 years old and do EVERYTHING MYSELF EXCEPT TRASMISIONS.If I lived near you ,I would relax and have you do ALLof my work. You are a true craftsman
I'm 71 & feel the same way. I hope I'm ALIVE in my 80's.😂 Let alone, still get underneath in my driveway. But I will do until I can't. 😉✊️👍🖖
I have a 2016 Toyota Prius that has over 240,000 mi on it. Have not seen it on that Prius holding my breath that it never happens. I have had to replace the water pump at 150,000 mi because it ended up failing on it, but other than that it's been a very reliable car
Figure out a way to monitor your engine temperature real-time with a Bluetooth diagnostic dongle or scanguage, at your mileage you may want to replace or clean your egr/exhaust gas recirculation as they coke up pretty badly by that mileage.
It's a common problem for cars with lots a mileage. We had this problem 2 years ago and Again and again. We seen a lot of this. Every Prius 2016+ have this problem. Also all Corolla and C-HR with 2 liters engine have this issue.
You are honest mechanic ,you could have had the customers pants down 💰💰saying it’s head gasket 💰💰hope your honesty gets rewarded 👊🏼
And this is why you are a MASTER tech and I watch your channel. You figure out problems and don't just charge the customer. To bad you in Chicago area and not by me.
Same exact thing happened with my 2017 Two in June. We were driving home at night and the wife was cold so she turned up the heat. Never got hot, then the warning light came on. FIL is a Toyota tech, so I took it to him the next day and he said it was this issue. Good thing it was a warranty job because CA…didn’t want to see the bill on that one lol.
There’s also a TSB on this issue, and a replacement that supposedly fixes the issue, but it’s only to be completed when the issue shows up, which is a bummer because this could blow the engine if someone isn’t paying attention to the coolant, like myself, and who doesn’t have anyone to take it to right away.
Too bad no one here in Rochester has your honesty and knowledge
Rochester, NY?
Great diagnostic!! I would wager that the average shop would have done as you mentioned. Seen the steam cleaned pistons tops and sold a head gasket replacement job and then been faced with the cat issue! We so many more of you, Eric O, and Ivan’s in the world of mechanics. The public also needs to understand that in this day and age diagnostic time is money well spent. Great diagnostic. Wish you and your family a great new year.
Any chance that catalytic converter is covered by a manufacturers extended warranty for an emissions device? 10 years, 100K miles?
Good question. What to know too!
The heat exchanger IS covered under warranty if you are within the time span. If not, u can bypass the cooling lines in two ways.
It's always fun saying to customers "I have to pull your windshield wipers off to replace your spark plugs. Sir, your Toyota is literally leaking exhaust fluid" 😂
Excellent presentation. Thank you. Gen 3 original owner 2012 Prius with 280,000 miles. So far no head gasket issues. Fingers crossed.
When my 1999 Camry 5S-FE blew its head gasket a couple of years ago, gas bubbles were pushed through the cooling system and became visible in the reservoir.
You are just the best. The world needs more people like you!
"Your exhaust is leaking coolant!" 😂
Don't forget to fill your blinker fluid too!
But the Prius has a coolant heat exchanger inside the catalytic converter that helps warm the engine faster. It is actually inside there.
Great diagnostic work Ahmed, that is why you are a Toyota Master Diagnostic Technician.
The owner can park that thing in Chicago overnight and someone will remove that catalytic converter with no charge 😁, got to love Chicago.
It IS a common gen4 problem and many simply bypass the coolant lines at the cat. Often reported on Priuschat.
I learned something new today, cats and coolant do not mixed. Nice video
I’m a Kia Technician in ONTARIO. We have the same common problem in KIA NIRO. The moment I read the title, I knew what it is gonna be.
Let’s get a video of your experience as a shop owner! I appreciate your perspective.
You noted that coolant is used to cool the catalytic converter - you did not explain how that happens, nor did you explain the mechanism of failure resulting in coolant leakage of whatever it is that keeps coolant close to the converter. I do not have a clear picture of how all this happened. (retired mechanical engineer). By the way, you do an incredible job in these videos - I watch them all.
Coolant is NOT used to cool the CAT. It's the opposite, the CAT is used to heat coolant. This way, you reach operating temperature faster. It's just a basic heat exchanger. Once coolant is hot enough, a valve prevent it from flowing into the CAT.
Coolant is NOT used to cool the CAT. It's the opposite, the CAT is used to heat coolant. This way, you reach operating temperature faster. It's just a basic heat exchanger. Once coolant is hot enough, a valve prevent it from flowing into the CAT.
Coolant is NOT used to cool the CAT. It's the opposite, the CAT is used to heat coolant. This way, you reach operating temperature faster. It's just a basic heat exchanger. Once coolant is hot enough, a valve prevent it from flowing into the CAT.
Amazing diagnotics and logical skills AMD, you sir are the SHERLOCK HOLMES of automative service, thank you for taking us on another wonderful journey. God bless!!
Actually received a recall letter on my KIA NIRO HEV for the same issue! My coolant has been dropping very slowly during summer days and when I mentioned to the advisor he said that a same model came in and was losing it daily and found all of them went into the catalytic converter!
Crazy engineering equals a crazy problem. Great video.
@ 16:20 ..... AWWWW MAN.....all that pink coolant all over your nice shiny garage floor 🤣🤣
That’s some crazy engineering. Coolant to the catalytic converter
As a master tech at a NY dealership I can say I’ve seen this problem on a bunch of 2016-2017 Prius’. I believe Toyota has issued a TSB for this issue
So what makes them GO bad? Poor design? Are replacements better made?
Excellent to see the disgnostic process and the actual physical damage, as well as the explanation. Hybrids are a Wonder of the Automotive World, requiring specialized mechanics we can trust: unfortunately, all mechanics are not like AMD, Scotty Kilmer, and others we can see on TH-cam, or that are about to retire close to where we live. And, I forgot the dealers...yes, is maybe, because, is sad to recognize, we need to forget about the dealer, if you want your car to last a long time, because they have the conflict of interest, of trying to sell you a new car sooner than later, and having yours in a trade in, that could be called, a steal in....
is good that not all mechanics are like Scotty Kilmer LOL..
@@gianfrancoa Scotty Kilmer is a recognized trusted mechanic. There are many we cannot trust, the World needs more people who tell the truth, without receiving money from corporations trying to sell through comnercials and public relations.
There are some excellent techs at the dealerships, but they are caught between the flat rate system & the dealership owner's policy. If all the owner cares about is money - guess what? The 2nd time I went to a dealer was for a recall that they did with no charge, but the lug nuts were tightened more than 40ft.lbs. OVER the specified spec. That was a tech using a impact gun without using a torque wench! I will be going back there to let them know that I rechecked (after watching a TH-cam video about wheel studs) the torque.
@@pablorosado535
There is nothing that you can learn from Scotty other than screaming throughout his video . Just a cheap show . Ahmed is a true technician to learn from .
@@AJ-AJ212 I fixed my own car several times following Scotty Kilmer advice shown on his daily videos. Scotty is a real mechanic too.
AMD doing his best Sherlock Holmes. Great job - I hope it works out for the better for the customer.
AMD I would love to see a video on a Prius V. I have a 2015 and it's been perfect, but I would love to learn even more about the car!
I got a 15 prius with 133k miles, zero issues & runs great.
Can you show us the leak with a diagram?❤
That was a really good one. As soon as I saw all four cylinders clean with no leaks, I suspected a that the head gasket was fine. Besides, they don't usually fail everywhere at once. As you said, the EGR assembly mimicking exhaust valve timing would allow the pistons to get steam cleaned without misfires. What an awesome diagnosis, and one lucky customer!
The EGR valve must be pristine clean.
Wow! Your customers are always in good and honest hands in your shop
You followed your gut feeling and it paid off. Great video.
I was literally sitting on the edge of my seat here. It's like watching a suspense movie. When the Dr says he doesn't know what's wrong with you. But the good news is whatever it is, they are going to name it after you.
Thank you. What a relief that it is not HG issue. I have 2018 Prius Prime that is suffering from the similar issue at 170000 km. It smokes white once in a while but runs great. The coolant loss has been manageable.
Great video on proper diagnosis. I love watching you getting answers to your thoughts. Its the way scientists work. Never assuming anything. Only fact driven 🥳
There was a TSB some time ago to replace that catalytic converter pipe. The coolant runs past there to accelerate heat up since the engine doesn't run under certain conditions.
I believe there's been a bulletin on these for a WHILEEEE now
I enjoy witnessing your process of seeking answers to your inquiries-it reflects the meticulous approach of scientists, never making assumptions. Fantastic video on accurate diagnosis!👍
As a mechanical engineer, what I know about that is the philosophy behind those synergic engines have been remain the same up until now since they ever came out. So as long as the engine cranks up and shuts down constantly in a typical city traffic, accordingly contraction and expansion will continue to occur until the parts such as head gasket in this case will get fatigue and it will no longer seal perfectly and eventually fail. In a nut shell, Design engineer behind this engine need to keep engine's thermodynamics at constant temperature to annulate this issue for a long time.
would love more expansion on this topic! thx!
I always suspected this issue with idle stop engines which undegoes Temp fluctuations. Thank you for clarifying this.
would have thought big failure rate but there is not. As the tech said,dont look for the obvious.@@sunilayya8948
I never thought about that but it totally makes sense. I figured starters wearing out and oiling issues but these engines seem to last big miles.
@@blipco5 Thanks for dropping your comment here. Everyone can imagine what fatigue is right if you have a piece of sheet metal or aluminum in your hand, when you keep twisting it I will eventually become plasticized and split apart. The breaking force is in this case; the heat. This is a basic example from material science. Whereas in common internal combustion engines, they come up to a certain heat level such as 180-200 F degrees. So it keeps itself in that range so that constant heat changes like turning on and shutting down does not take place like that of synergic engines (hybrid engines). I hope that this makes sense.
If it is considered an emissions device then Toyota's warranty is like 80k miles in non-CARB states and 150k miles in CARB.
I’m glad that this engine isn’t a head gasket issue, but what is it with Toyota engines and blowing head gaskets?
Great video. If past warranty, you can bypass the coolant lines to the heat exchanger. One in engine compartment, or two, or underneath where the exchanger IS. Gasket Masters shows u on two videos. ALOT cheaper.
Love that chuckle you did when you saw the unusual scenario of coolant dripping from the exhaust pipe. I can tell you love what you do
“Well, hello coolant.” 😮
What a headache!
No underbody drips and profuse coolant consumptions sounds like it's been perpetually followed by a white exhaust cloud for a Looong time. One would presume cracked cylinder wall if there's no puddle, but I'll stick with this to see the real cause.
Add: Well, that's different; My next guess would be the EGR is sparkly clean. Sure didn't know about the cat being a heater for coolant though. "Your cat converter is leaking coolant." Sounds like blinker fluid. 😁
Hello AMD, every time I watch your videos I learn something new from you. You obviously were once a great mechanical 'student' and now you have become a great 'educator'. Thank you for an incredible video Professor AMD. You are to be commended! Is it AMD or is it Ahmed?
Great video. Just a note for editing: listening on headphones, when your voice is at normal volume your cordless hand tools are deafening!
My favorite episode yet , love your solution process , thanks for taking us along. 👍
Great video, what do you think caused the catalytic convertor coolant leak? I'd love to see a follow up on this repair and an autopsy of the broken part/leak to figure out what possibly caused it. I love watching your channel Ahmed. Thank you again.
Theres a valve in the cat that redirects coolant back to the engine after heating, it leaks. You can bypass it with a tube/hose plus fittings but you lose the quicker warm up and efficiency of this system, or you replace the cat assembly with the new updated version.
@@antpart7998Do you know if you get an fault code for this valve and what is the code?
Awesome analysis and thanks for walking us through your reasoning for why this might not be a head gasket. That's definitely something that could be missed if someone would have gone immediately with the head gasket replacement.
A few months ago, I was driving in the passing lane of the highway behind a late gen Prius that had smoke coming out of the exhaust, and now I know why.
This just further solidifies by documentation that you are an extraordinary diagnostician Ahmed!! Did you wind up replacing the catalytic converter and such in the leaking part?
Thank you very much for sharing your experience. One note, in case of such a significant coolant lose, the first thing I wold do is oil inspection for "milk shake". If oil is clean, its a pretty good indication on healthy head gasket. 100% agree with you on the phenomenon of the shiny pistons, probably caused by exhaust back pressure saturated in steaming coolant. Thank you sir.
Thanks for walking through the diagnosis and problem-solving process, especially when you ended up with something unexpected!
Great video, walking us through the diagnosis. Keep going until you have an explanation for all the symptoms, and resisting the temptation to make the analysis fit the assumed cause.
I concur.
Thanks for the video as always, excellent job .
I had a similar problem with a Toyota Corolla , every dealer I took it, they all gave me a different diagnosis.
I had to sell it because that engine light, never when out and it couldn’t pass inspection.
I wish I had you as a mechanic.
Thanks again excellent job.
Love this video and your content as always. Very informative and interesting. As a newly learning toyota Technician, this is extremely helpful and useful. I'll keep this in mind whenever I look at a 4th Gen prius. And you're absolutely right about trusting your gut in diagnosis. I've worked with a few techs who literally just guess and hope they're right, and usually, it backfires. Again thank you so much for your honesty and straightforward approach. It's very helpful and encouraging.
As you were diagnosing the coolant leak with all 4 cylinders clean my question became what is common to all cylinders. Did not expect a leak in the exhaust but back pressure from the EGR made sense. Good diagnostics.
Great info..! I'm sure most of us will appreciate knowing this before replacing a head gasket just to find out it didn't fix it ..! Can you imagine!
What do we tell the customer?
Thanks again for this very helpful video.
So we found a new way to de-carbonized the piston? 😁
I have the same car that had the same issue at 170k miles. A bypass of the line into the exhaust heat exchanger resolved the coolant loss issue.
It would make sense to do a bypass of the line into the exhaust heat exchanger to confirm that it was that that was the problem and then go ahead changing the expensive component.
This is one interesting video from all the videos that I have watched from AMD! Thank God I don't have a Prius!
One of my favorite diagnostics videos thus far.. another was an old video from “Pine Hollow Auto Diagnostics on an Acura MDX.. and the finding was a total plot twist just like this one…
Thank you always for sharing with us.
AMD, thank you for your amazing and thorough content. Your high level of integrity and honesty is a blessing. Wishing you and your family the best!!
That was an interesting video. I like the way you diagnose these problems and always have the interest of the customer in mind.
Great video
My 2010 Prius had a blown head gasket around 300k miles I was putting in head head gasket fix until it was rear ended.
I have a 2017 now and changed the coolant at 100k so it doesn’t become acidic.hoping it helps with gasket life.
Also a coworker has 2017 Prius prime and her catalytic converter had the same issue. As I was watching the video I was talking to the screen to check the exhaust system
Fantastic diagnostic. Great Job!!❤
Great video! I have an '87 560SEC Benz that has a slower water leak than this Prius but also no apparent sources. I was going to pull all eight plugs and see if any looked too clean but your video taught me that using my borescope to look into the cylinders is a very good thing and what to look for. I just ordered a radiator pressure kit that will be delivered tomorrow, so I can pressurize the cooling system without having to get the engine up to temperature. My intake manifold had been removed and reinstalled to replace a bunch of plastic and rubber bits and...coolant does go through the manifold. All-in-all, you have provided me with a clear path forward!! Thanks!!!
This looks like a spammer, not Ahmed. Suggestions?
As a 4th gen Prius owner I was definitely on the edge of my seat for this one haha
Keep an eye on your coolant level and maybe use a Bluetooth dongle or scanguage to monitor your coolant/engine temperature real-time
This is why car owners need to find a mechanic like you. Most mechanics would have just replaced the head gasket based on the symptoms, charged the customer and sent them on their way.
Oh ... The wonderfull reliable Toyotas. I have a GM and never got any proble anyware similar as bad.
Excellent diagnosis Dr TCCN!
I guess I still am confused as to what is wrong. How does fluid get to the cat? Water cooled?
yes it has coolant lines just like a heater hose that run from the engine down to the cat and then back to the engine. since the cat gets hot first it heats the coolant which also circulates through the cabin heater core and so you get heat a little sooner after start up in the winter as well as decreased emissions as he described. crazy huh?
Good job, you should be proud that you kept going and found the correct problem
Great job Ahmed. Nice work finding that problem.
23:35 “can’t really tamper with this, put in a bypass…” - I’m hearing what your not saying…
…probably support the bypass with zip ties also.
I’ve dealt with this before many times at my shop. I have been able to just bypass the system.