i grew up with SWTPC products, first the 6800 system as shown in the video, then we bumped up to the 6809 system with Memory Management boards. Was a fun system to learn and use. This group was located in Texas(SWTPC) There was another popular group using the Motorola 6800 family which was called GIMMIX. I forgot their location. Brings back the old days of computing. I really like the plug in boards with the SS50 molex connector bus. Very easy to modify the system and reliable. The connectors were tin plated connectors. GIMIX went one step farther and made them gold plated connectors but their systems were very expensive. Memories are coming back on these 6800 systems.
I bought and built one of these right after I graduated from engineering college in 1978, and used it for many years thereafter. Spent what was then a minor fortune to get three 16K memory card kits for it. Started with the cassette tape for program storage, and then saved up enough to get the dual floppy cabinet kit. Did the mods to upgrade it to a 6809 as well. I've forever regretted the day that, when moving out of my first house, I decided to donate it to a co-worker who claimed to be setting up a museum of early computers and I could come to see/use it whenever I wanted. He left the company shortly thereafter, never to be heard from again.
You never forget your first... How I got my first - It was a nice day in spring when I went to the car parts place to get new spark plug wires but, they were out of stock so, I got into my pick-up truck, started it up and looked in front of where I parked and...... What did I SEE??? It was a "computer store" called Bits N Bytes. Needless to say, I backed out of my parking space, then proceeded as quick as I could across the street into the computer store's parking space, got out, went inside and ... Was in total awe. There were computers there. I went over to one of them and decided to enter a program I remembered reading about from a book I found a year ago. It was a tic-tac-toe program. I started entering it and got an error. The owner came over and looked at what I did and commented that you couldn't enter decimal line numbers. (The book I found was the operating manual for the DEC PDP 6 and the programming language was called FOCAL - What did I know about languages at the time.) I talked with the owner for hours as he educated me about computers and programming languages. One of the things I mentioned was that I was interested in the Altair (the computers he was selling was the SWTPC6800) and he asked me why. I told him I loved all those lights and switches cause they looked like a real computer that you see in movies. He then explained the process to enter a program into it... Toggle switches to enter program with keyboard (teletype), enter program through keyboard to read cassette tape, load cassette tape (basic) then load the program you wanted to run. Ahhhhhh I said, I see the light. He then made a proposal that I could buy one part at a time (I was making little money at the time) and so it was, I was able to buy one part at a time until I got a fully running SWTPC6800 with 2k memory (I also bought the book he sold on how to use the assembly language for it) but, it wasn't enough so I then bought another 2k set in order to load Robert Uiterik's 4K basic (didn't work, required 5K of ram.) I entered a program to display the star trek enterprise on the screen - Took 6 hours of entering hex codes (until my 1 year old daughter decided to pull out the plug) and afterwards, started all over again for 8 hours. That's when the cassette interface became a necessity. I couldn't afford a new one but someone who hung around the store (as I did afterwards) sold one to me for 40.00. Later, I bought another 4K ram set, used the 4K basic and had a lot of fun learning computer technology. Eventually, I bought Uiterik's 8K basic with file handling (only required 7K of ram) and the rest is history. You never forget your first.
The SWTPC was my First and last build of a Computer... You had to solder every resistor, diode, and all the Ram pin's. I played a space game on it but don't remember it's name.
45 years of materials science difference to explain power supply size. Then there are the realities of infrastructure, even when state of the art meant size could be reduced, to retool for something low tech like electrolytic capacitors would be cost prohibitive.
SWTPC was actually quite popular. The company survived for many years after the others (MITS [Altair], IMSAI, etc.) had folded - this survival of course was due to switching to other products later on as the computer market became diluted with competition and dominated by IBM clones.
Currently, most power supplies are "switching" power supplies. Power is rapidly chopped in an inductive coil to achieve any desirable voltage. They can be very small, and inexpensive. But, back in the 80's and earlier, chips were expensive and copper was cheap, so big f-ing transformers with simple bridge rectifiers and linear regulators were the way to go. The situation is now reversed.
@@kmorger Most of the "originals" used those linear beasts - apple used switchers from the start (well with the Apple ][ - you had to provide your own supply for the Apple I). Of course I'm sure you already know these things but for the benefit of BirdValiant, I'll mention that those old linear supplies needed giant capacitors to filter out the 50/60Hz ripple - a switcher boosts the frequency in the hundreds of KHz or higher allowing much smaller capacitors since they don't have to "hold up" the output voltage as long between transitions since the switching is so much faster than 50/60Hz.
Given the market size, it did take off. However, the market was small. It was a hobbyist market. I've had a computer in my home since 1977 and it was over 10 years before people quit asking me what I used it for. Also, in 1973, I competed in a student IEEE contest with a project that converted an oscilloscope into a display device. During my presentation, I talked about how the technology could be used with keyboard and the (then new 8008) computer chip for a home computer system. After the presentation, one of the visiting engineers came up and complemented me on the project and presentation, but added he didn't think anyone would ever want a computer in their home.
Interesting how the internal backplanes used pin headers, rather than traditional edge connectors (such as standard S-100 bus). I guess it was a cost reduction?
I've always loved the look of this case and was thinking about building a replica with the SS-50 boards from corshamtech. I have a question about the front panel though, is it an acrylic piece on top and aluminum on the bottom or just one piece of glossy painted aluminum? As for the case it looks like 3 pieces of folded 18 gauge sheet metal bolted together with a perforated sheet metal cover attached with automotive style clip nuts through 3/4 inch aluminum angle stock? Thanks!
The piece on top is glossy painted aluminum which was glued to the front panel. An aside about the naming of the "SS-50" & "SS-30" busses, my late friend Don Williams (known to 68 Micro Journal readers as "DMW") was on the phone one afternoon with Dan Meyer (of SWTPc) and they were talking about the 8080 community naming their bus the "s100" and Don suggested to Dan that we should call ours the "SS-50" because back then General Motors were fond of calling their high performance versions "SS" models. Dan fell in love with the idea & decided SWTPc's bus was the SS-50 as of that day. Later that afternoon Don was on the phone with Richard Don (owner of Gimix, later GMX computers) and Richard also fell in love with the idea! So Gimix also adopted the SS-50/SS-30 designations that day. I'm uncertain about Dan Meyer but I know for a fact that Don & Richard were both GM fans. :)
Altair is more special because it's basically a tombstone for the early micros and 60's mainframes. I mean with the switches, of course. They're very significant.
It's my understanding that they initially shipped with MIKBUG which was an off the shelf monitor from Motorola. But they used the binary exactly as it came from Motorola, and its required memory map worked better with low RAM systems. As SwTPC expanded the memory in later models that became an issue, and they later switched to SWTBUG. But I haven't used any of these machines so that's second hand information.
@@mheermance You are correct. SWTBUG was a "johnny come lately" from SWTPc that was an improvement over Mikbug. Most importantly, it added floppy bootstrap to the ROM. Mikbug didn't have that.
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I hope you can be as exhaustive with this as with the Altair series, I find your videos very informative.
i grew up with SWTPC products, first the 6800 system as shown in the video, then we bumped up to the 6809 system with Memory Management boards. Was a fun system to learn and use. This group was located in Texas(SWTPC) There was another popular group using the Motorola 6800 family which was called GIMMIX. I forgot their location. Brings back the old days of computing.
I really like the plug in boards with the SS50 molex connector bus. Very easy to modify the system and reliable. The connectors were tin plated connectors. GIMIX went one step farther and made them gold plated connectors but their systems were very expensive. Memories are coming back on these 6800 systems.
I bought and built one of these right after I graduated from engineering college in 1978, and used it for many years thereafter. Spent what was then a minor fortune to get three 16K memory card kits for it. Started with the cassette tape for program storage, and then saved up enough to get the dual floppy cabinet kit. Did the mods to upgrade it to a 6809 as well. I've forever regretted the day that, when moving out of my first house, I decided to donate it to a co-worker who claimed to be setting up a museum of early computers and I could come to see/use it whenever I wanted. He left the company shortly thereafter, never to be heard from again.
Very excited to see this. I know almost nothing about the SWTPC 6800.
You never forget your first...
How I got my first - It was a nice day in spring when I went to the car parts place to get new spark plug wires but, they were out of stock so, I got into my pick-up truck, started it up and looked in front of where I parked and...... What did I SEE??? It was a "computer store" called Bits N Bytes. Needless to say, I backed out of my parking space, then proceeded as quick as I could across the street into the computer store's parking space, got out, went inside and ... Was in total awe. There were computers there. I went over to one of them and decided to enter a program I remembered reading about from a book I found a year ago. It was a tic-tac-toe program. I started entering it and got an error. The owner came over and looked at what I did and commented that you couldn't enter decimal line numbers. (The book I found was the operating manual for the DEC PDP 6 and the programming language was called FOCAL - What did I know about languages at the time.)
I talked with the owner for hours as he educated me about computers and programming languages. One of the things I mentioned was that I was interested in the Altair (the computers he was selling was the SWTPC6800) and he asked me why. I told him I loved all those lights and switches cause they looked like a real computer that you see in movies. He then explained the process to enter a program into it... Toggle switches to enter program with keyboard (teletype), enter program through keyboard to read cassette tape, load cassette tape (basic) then load the program you wanted to run. Ahhhhhh I said, I see the light. He then made a proposal that I could buy one part at a time (I was making little money at the time) and so it was, I was able to buy one part at a time until I got a fully running SWTPC6800 with 2k memory (I also bought the book he sold on how to use the assembly language for it) but, it wasn't enough so I then bought another 2k set in order to load Robert Uiterik's 4K basic (didn't work, required 5K of ram.) I entered a program to display the star trek enterprise on the screen - Took 6 hours of entering hex codes (until my 1 year old daughter decided to pull out the plug) and afterwards, started all over again for 8 hours. That's when the cassette interface became a necessity. I couldn't afford a new one but someone who hung around the store (as I did afterwards) sold one to me for 40.00. Later, I bought another 4K ram set, used the 4K basic and had a lot of fun learning computer technology. Eventually, I bought Uiterik's 8K basic with file handling (only required 7K of ram) and the rest is history. You never forget your first.
If were to ever get back into computer collecting, a SWTPC 6800 or 6809 would be on my list.
id buy this system. huge capaciter . good gravey.
Can't wait to learn more about it
The SWTPC was my First and last build of a Computer... You had to solder every resistor, diode, and all the Ram pin's. I played a space game on it but don't remember it's name.
I remember using one of these at School (UK) Late 1970's.
The size of that capacitor terrifies me.
Wow, if it was such a technologically superior option for the price, why didn't it take off?
Also, why were power supplies so gigantic back then?
45 years of materials science difference to explain power supply size. Then there are the realities of infrastructure, even when state of the art meant size could be reduced, to retool for something low tech like electrolytic capacitors would be cost prohibitive.
SWTPC was actually quite popular. The company survived for many years after the others (MITS [Altair], IMSAI, etc.) had folded - this survival of course was due to switching to other products later on as the computer market became diluted with competition and dominated by IBM clones.
Currently, most power supplies are "switching" power supplies. Power is rapidly chopped in an inductive coil to achieve any desirable voltage. They can be very small, and inexpensive.
But, back in the 80's and earlier, chips were expensive and copper was cheap, so big f-ing transformers with simple bridge rectifiers and linear regulators were the way to go. The situation is now reversed.
@@kmorger Most of the "originals" used those linear beasts - apple used switchers from the start (well with the Apple ][ - you had to provide your own supply for the Apple I). Of course I'm sure you already know these things but for the benefit of BirdValiant, I'll mention that those old linear supplies needed giant capacitors to filter out the 50/60Hz ripple - a switcher boosts the frequency in the hundreds of KHz or higher allowing much smaller capacitors since they don't have to "hold up" the output voltage as long between transitions since the switching is so much faster than 50/60Hz.
Given the market size, it did take off. However, the market was small. It was a hobbyist market. I've had a computer in my home since 1977 and it was over 10 years before people quit asking me what I used it for. Also, in 1973, I competed in a student IEEE contest with a project that converted an oscilloscope into a display device. During my presentation, I talked about how the technology could be used with keyboard and the (then new 8008) computer chip for a home computer system. After the presentation, one of the visiting engineers came up and complemented me on the project and presentation, but added he didn't think anyone would ever want a computer in their home.
Yay! Keep them coming, I like this
Interesting how the internal backplanes used pin headers, rather than traditional edge connectors (such as standard S-100 bus). I guess it was a cost reduction?
I've always loved the look of this case and was thinking about building a replica with the SS-50 boards from corshamtech. I have a question about the front panel though, is it an acrylic piece on top and aluminum on the bottom or just one piece of glossy painted aluminum? As for the case it looks like 3 pieces of folded 18 gauge sheet metal bolted together with a perforated sheet metal cover attached with automotive style clip nuts through 3/4 inch aluminum angle stock? Thanks!
The piece on top is glossy painted aluminum which was glued to the front panel.
An aside about the naming of the "SS-50" & "SS-30" busses, my late friend Don Williams (known to 68 Micro Journal readers as "DMW") was on the phone one afternoon with Dan Meyer (of SWTPc) and they were talking about the 8080 community naming their bus the "s100" and Don suggested to Dan that we should call ours the "SS-50" because back then General Motors were fond of calling their high performance versions "SS" models. Dan fell in love with the idea & decided SWTPc's bus was the SS-50 as of that day. Later that afternoon Don was on the phone with Richard Don (owner of Gimix, later GMX computers) and Richard also fell in love with the idea! So Gimix also adopted the SS-50/SS-30 designations that day. I'm uncertain about Dan Meyer but I know for a fact that Don & Richard were both GM fans. :)
Interesting Video, thanks
This was really good to see, the inside is really sofisticated and easy to understand. Spock approves. :D
I keep waiting for you to say....."Now, the computer used in this video........". I'm just saying I'll buy one if it happens. :)
But you could use the Altair without a serial TTY or Terminal. Those were pretty pricey in the 70's for many hobbyists.
Altair is more special because it's basically a tombstone for the early micros and 60's mainframes. I mean with the switches, of course. They're very significant.
Wasn't the SwTPC ROM called SWTBUG rather than MIKBUG? Were there differences? If so, what were they?
It's my understanding that they initially shipped with MIKBUG which was an off the shelf monitor from Motorola. But they used the binary exactly as it came from Motorola, and its required memory map worked better with low RAM systems. As SwTPC expanded the memory in later models that became an issue, and they later switched to SWTBUG. But I haven't used any of these machines so that's second hand information.
@@mheermance You are correct. SWTBUG was a "johnny come lately" from SWTPc that was an improvement over Mikbug. Most importantly, it added floppy bootstrap to the ROM. Mikbug didn't have that.
Good video. Thanx
Are you planning on making a 6800 Clone? If so, sign me up! If the quality is as good as your Altair Clone, it'll be excellent.
Nice review.
That fat capacitor is terrifying