The Xerox Alto absolutely FASCINATES me. Everything about it, just... HOW? HOW do you run an OS with a foldered filesystem and a windowed GUI, with Ethernet networking capabilities, driven with a mouse, all on nothing but 7400-series TTL ICs from 1973?!
Better programmers and less wasteful software. Modern programming is so far away from Assembly that many programmers aren't trained engineers like you had from 1965-1990 but secretaries and game power users that just like home computers and hack their way into a profession. Scripting like Java really wastes clock speed and memory resources for no real end gain, vs proper 2gl and 3gl compiled programs. Thus the Apollo era computers could do the job with slower computers but more robust electronics and tighter software.
I was once a NCR-500 computer repairman used primarily for logistics 800 words of iron core memory, the programs were loaded via 80 column key punched cards.
The price tag of the products, and their management saw their corporate mission as producing printed documents, not sending them from place to paper without printing them. Fortunately, IBM didn't see their corporate mission as producing time clocks and butcher scales (Hobart), and Remington didn't see theirs as just guns (so they went into typewriters and later the Univac computer).
In all honesty, it was because the companies who made them only had the elite and businesses (and possibly colleges) in mind. They weren't thinking of the average consumer at the time.
Sharp, Casio, and TI had pocket computers with one-line LCD screens that ran BASIC in the 1980s. Tandy also marketed various re-badged Sharp and Casio models. I never had one but they were kinda neat I guess. I suppose one of course would have to write down their programs before they typed them in and hoped for no typos.
Made a simple boxing game for a one liner display.. you pick to swing high low or mid and it picks to block/swing like rock paper scissor with fists. And of course the number guessing game "Higher Lower"
Love those retro futuristic 70s design aesthetics, where everyday objects look like pieces of design furniture. Was expecting a lot more wood paneling though.
The Alto was the foundation for the Apple Lisa and then Macintosh. Steve Jobs grabbed the tech because frankly, Xerox had no idea what a goldmine they were sitting on.
@@mrburns366 Correct, though not necessarily a problem, in some cases necessary, and can help a reader who is unfamiliar with the acronym.Consider: "We use IBM machines and like to use the BCPL programming language". Yes, the redundancy could be avoided and you could just say "We use IBM and BCPL", but more readers would think "IBM for what? and what the heck is BCPL anyway" than with the first version.
I feel in some cases the acronym ends up trascending it's original meaning and becoming a category of it's own. For example, yes, "an ATM machine" literally would mean "an Automatic Teller Machine machine", but could also be interpreted as "a machine of the ATM type". "An LGR review" = "A Lazy Game Reviews review" or "A review by youtuber LRG".
But "TT Logic" sounds strange. Kinda like Technology Connections saying "LC panel", even when that's warranted because what he's actually talking about is literally a homogenous panel rather than a display. But "LC display" would also sound odd, vs the technically incorrect "LCD display".
40K in 75 is something like 120K today. A system with an intel 7700K, a 1080ti, and 32GB of DDR4 (so not the highest you can go but it should crush whatever games you throw at it), can be build for something like 1200 dollars. so you can build 100 of those!
yet you can probably build one your self for a fraction of that, since it's all off-the shelf parts. or use a FPGA chip and run one. or use Rasberry pi and emulate one.
For those interested in the Alto, Curious Marc (YT Channel) and group of guys, including original engineers, have restored one to near perfect working condition thanks to some crazy logic analysing methods using modern machines, original parts and software.
Thanks, looks interesting. I've always found the Also very interesting and was very disappointed when I started working at Xerox, and it turned out that they didn't have one stashed away in the basement :-(
Steve Jobs basically stole the concept. Him and some Apple engineers went to study the Alto in exchange for Xerox getting stock in Apple but the outcome of that was Apple basically claiming the concepts as their own and turning Apple into a billion dollar company. Xerox got a raw deal, imo.
Honestly, they probably could have reworked the concept to be more mainstream if they had wanted to, but the Alto itself was priced at the cost of ten very nice cars at the time, making it more of a machine aimed at universities or publishers than consumers. The engineering required to take the concepts of the GUI + mouse and work them into a a consumer-affordable machine (the original Macintosh, after failing with the more powerful and much more expensive Lisa), was a real credit to Apple's engineers. Today, we often take for granted that the concepts demonstrated by the Alto can be easily surpassed in quality and usability by a humble Raspberry Pi, but the Alto itself was a major work of engineering that was probably well worth its ridiculous (to us today) price. It took the passage of years (making more powerful components cheaper) + more engineering to "steal" those ideas for the Mac (and Windows, and X, etc.).
Hard to think of the ALTO as a 'strange' computer when for all intents and purposes, it was the prototype for the desktop PC. Bitmapped graphics, icons, GUI, WYSIWYG, Ethernet, BRAVO/GYPSY( the first word processors) plus laser printers are all pretty much used to this day. The Xerox management allowed the Apple team to see what PARC was cooking up, in return for stock options in Apple. So basically nothing was really stolen from PARC, it was basically given away.
Xerox also didn't really see any future in a "paperless" office, so they shut down PARC, which was only a demo project anyway (and workstations that would have cost a hundred grand today made it unfeasible for customers). They did, however, use the "back end" of the xerographic technology to make the first laser printers, and their patents were copied when they expired to produce all of today's laser printers. In the mid-1970s, IBM produced a high speed printer with that technology for mainframes which used giant reels of perforated forms the size of newsprint rolls, able to print almost as fast as a newspaper printing press, and to produce graphics, variable type fonts and orientations, even pre-signed checks. So Xerox got some mileage out of that even after their patents expired. (By "back end" I mean that rather than exposing an existing document to put the electrostatic image on the drum to produce the copy, a laser printer uses a laser beam and high speed mirror optics to scan the drum, and thus "copy" each page from digital data to paper.)
Also, they pioneered object oriented programming with a “little” language called Smalltalk. Well, one of the first to implement OOP in a real environment. The operating system was written in Smalltalk, too.
A friend on mine in the 1980s had previously worked at PARC in the accounting department back in the late 1970s. She said the technology developed in that place was at least a decade ahead of what could become mainstream in the business world. She amusingly told me that in the late 1970s, PARC had color copiers that were so good that the employees would copy one-dollar bills and run them through the change machine in the lunchroom, so the coins could be used to buy snacks and beverages from the coin-operated vending machines. Every week when the vending machine route driver serviced the lunchroom vending machines, including re-stocking the change machine, he'd come into the accounting department with around 20 bogus one-dollar bills, and have them exchanged for legal tender out of PARC's petty cash fund. What was very peculiar was that no one voiced any objections of that practice; as it was accepted as doing business in the high-tech world. xD
Dear Author, I don't know if you are still cheking out comments here, but for me - you've made one the best retro channels on YT. Congratulations and keep doing such a great, interesting and teaching stuff. Your viewer from far country. ;)
First tv i had with a VGA port was in 2007, and my lifestyle was ideal for hooking my pc to the tv then. Slightly different but my pc is hooked up to another tv via hdmi, but living room tv is smart tv with miracast. The jump in technology seems crazy
It's incredible how far technology has come in such a small amount of time... When you said one these had a 1kb ROM... It just made me think of the brand new phone I purchased yesterday which has 32gb ROM... insane how far we've come. Still! We'd be nowhere without these computers! As you said with the C8008 chip for! Awesome video! Thanks!
32 GB ROM? or RAM plus SSD? ROM is for the startup logic and the subroutines you don't want the OS to be able to change after booting up, so kilobytes would be more reasonable than megabytes, much less gigabytes. Most early PCs had 32 KB or 64 KB of ROM to hold the BIOS and power up logic, so the OS could boot up into RAM.
I was a computer tech for Datapoint back in the 70's and CTC 2200 (and later 5500 and 6600) formed the score of their commercial systems. No way were these a candidate for personal computer use. These ran a sophisticated programming language, could support about 16 async terminals and sync comms across what we would now call the wide area. The onboard cassette decks (fully servo controlled) were used primarily for diagnostics as the main system was hooked up to what was then some serious hard disk capacity - 20, 40, or even 60mb! Ah, those were the days!!
I worked for one of those companies. Late 70s, Datapoint 2200 / 16k memory / 10Mb disk. Datashare language (like cobol but less 'wordy'), 6 dumb screens around the factory running Sales, inventory & planning. Sub-second response times. This was my start into IT. Now people talk about digitizing their companies ....
As I looked at it in the video, I was skeptical the CTC 2200 could be made even by a creative programmer to function as a general purpose computer disconnected from its mainframe. Although...when I used a keypunch that could read the previous card, I used to fantasize about making that the basis for a self-executing sequence, so....
I was also a tech, for CN Telecommunications, and maintained several of them. They didn't have a hard disk, so the cassettes were used for loading the program. Also, IIRC, there was a BASIC interpreter for them.
Congratulations, Clint! You have become a true professional with this. Your episodes are a pleasure to watch and better than anything i could watch on TV.
It's amazing how in the 1970s and 80s computers were built in all sorts of countries... Germany, USA, UK, Canada, even Brazil. But now? They're mostly made in China.
Lots of different manufacturers in the UK (possibly 50 by the early 80's?). Acorn Atom of ~1978 was about the best. Superseding the US Commodore Pet as the most desired for home use.
And Japan, Taiwan, Singapore, Hong Kong, Korea, USSR, Poland, GDR, Bulgaria, Romania, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Cuba, Greece, Italy, France, Belgium, Netherland, Finland, Sweden, Norway, Australia, and so on. The world was full of weird and wonderful computers :) The computer variety went away simultaneously with the arrival of generally accepted standards - first the IBM PC (and more local ones - CP / M, Apple II, Macintosh, ZX Spectrum), and then Android / iOS. The country of origin is not so important here - after all, China produces smartphones and PCs for companies around the world (developers are located in the USA, Japan, Korea, etc.), and these companies, Apple, Samsung, etc., have always been the largest manufacturers of phones, although it must be admitted that in recent years they are being overtaken by large Chinese corporations - Huawei, Xiaomi, Lenovo ...
@@DinnerForkTongue its not outsourcing per say. Its one economy specialising in one thing. Its also why most cars are built in the us and Germany or why most olive oil is produced in greece and Spain
The CS1 professor I had last semester actually worked on the Xerox Alto. He would always go on about how frusterating it was that the Xerox execs just didn't understand how innovative the machine was. He was there the day Steve Jobs came to visit. He's still a bit bitter over the fact Steve got most of the "innovative" idea that the macintosh was applauded for from the Alto, a computer which existed 10 years prior to the macintosh.
Justen J Well, having great ideas is one thing, realising their potential and impact is a completely different kettle of fish - the difference between Xerox and Steve 🤭
You should have told your professor about Xerox stealing the GUI and mouse from Douglas Engelbart. At least Jobs paid Engelbart... (which happened to be the only money he ever saw from it). The Alto was never a commercial product, and it was also not very polished. While it had a lot of useful functions, they weren't implemented as well as on the Macintosh. You must remember that Apple hired about two dozen people from Xerox PARC to work on their systems so they could refine the ideas and simply make a better product. The Macintosh was a product you could buy so it's not surprising that this is the product that gets the attention and not a prototype that had little exposure.
Excellent video, I like how you apparently avoided the standard computers and showed us some really interesting models that we probably had never seen before.
Ever think it's crazy how science fiction predicted everything from virtual reality to holograms to touchscreens to pocket computers (smart phones and such)... But the one thing that nobody could have imagined was the mouse, up until its invention?
Nope, they sparked imagination to make it happen, science fiction was just about that, fiction.. when u try to translate it to real world u find a few pieces missing so u fill the gap (mouse)
FancyThat Sci fi didn't predict future technology, it's more that technology was inspired by Sci fi and tried to make products that were like what they saw in these shows and movies. Like when the first flip phone was developed, they specifically tried to make it like the one from star trek. That's not a prediction coming true, its something different
I personally believe that "Science Fiction" was just based on what they knew we had already simply because all of these so called "Futuristic" gadgets that seemed like "Science Fiction" Government intelligence agancies had decades before it ever bacame public knowledge that they existed and the Government intelligence agancies got this incredibly advanced technology from the Alien beings that are literally milennia ahead of us in terms of technology
All of these computers are incredibly intresting and fun to learn about. They are often so unique and strange, the one with the A4 shaped screen realy stood out to me.
@@jasonmitchell9411 Eh, when you get down to it, it could just be a sibling to 079 or 713... Though it might be fair to consider 86-DOS and its successors as an SCP in their own right.
That's what Steve Jobs thought, too. I remember seeing this at a COMDEX show back in the day, and my boss was very excited about it, how cool it was, the icons on the "desktop" (though that term had not yet been coined). I was used to typing commands, and basically went pffffh at the whole idea. Guess I was wrong :-/
+lucas rem "That Xerox Alto i used in 1986, to DTP the Dutch Atari User magazine" How did you get hold of a Xerox Alto? As far as I know they where never sold to any company. And DTP software running on the Alto? Maybe you're confusing it with the Xerox Star?
As always I love these videos. Thanks LGR! I also notice lots of comments on the Alto, the Alto and most of these systems got their ideas from the NLS system, the first system to demonstrate the mouse, a GUI, wysiwyg, hyperlinks, video conferencing, word processing and basically all we take for granted. Douglas Engelbart and his team displayed this system in 1968 as what is now referred to as the Mother of all Demos. Several engineers from that team left to work for Xerox Parc and eventually developed the Alto. The demo is available on TH-cam, if you have not seen it check it out, it's pretty darn amazing!
Thanks for mentioning Douglas Engelbart. He was a wonderful man and so much ahead of his time. I'm glad the demo is available here for everyone to see.
@@johnfrancisdoe1563 i think he wrote a few books but don't recall the name. I ended up doing a documentary on him that talks a lot about what he did. It's on TH-cam now and called The Augmentation of Douglas Engelbert. Check it out :-)
@@dm8579 I agree. He's a hero to me. I did a full documentary on him and it's on TH-cam and Amazon prime. The Augmentation of Douglas Engelbart. You should check it out!
I love how these give me nostalgia despite being born in 1990. This is because almost all of these were present in the illustrations within (then retro) futurism books in the libraries of my elementary and middle schools. Bless this channel.
Same :) And I have a big heart for old hard drives. Especially those with a capacity of around 2gb. They make lovely noises. Old Akai Mpc audio samplers also made cute clunky sounds which you should definitely check out.
I’d say no decade was more important for the development of computers than the 1970s that decade was like an electronics renaissance. Just think we went from electric tube computing, tape decks, records, and at the beginning of the decade color tv and touch tone dialing were revolutionary. This decade gave us • calculators • LED displays • video games • microprocessors • microwave ovens • VCRs • 8-track tapes • cassette tapes
William TOAD Actually, you have probably missed the most important contribution made to computing during the 70s: virtual memory. Original development was at IBM, but it was the technical success of the Prime 100 that made smaller computers competitive with large machines and launched the minicomputer business.
The Radio Shack 1400 LT weighed in at 14 pounds well over a decade later, so the MCM/70 was pretty advanced for its size. As you see from this fine post, computers were first designed by engineers who did not think of the home use of their machines. Only as the decade came to a close did sales and marketing get into the design of a home computer that people would actually think of using. Thanks for this trip down memory lane.
The Alto brought about a precedence most people take for granted: it rendered fonts at 72 dots per inch, which is still the standard for rendering text and graphics today.
Or what about the very first electronic digital computer, Atanasoff Berry, and the sneaky efforts by the Eniac team to ignore it and try to take the spotlight for inventing the computer. Only because of an investigative young patent lawyer did they finally get recognition. There's a great documentary about it, could easily pass as a Grisham thriller.
I was working at a radio station which was using a Datapoint 2200 to do the daily commercial scheduling and monthly billing. When the IBM PC came out, and software for those functions arrived, I wound up with the 2200 as a play toy. Datapoint sold me the assembler and the BASIC language tapes and I wrote some fun toys in its whopping 16k of memory. I distinctly remember that you had to be careful with the stack. It was done in hardware with a pair of 7489 16x4 TTL RAM chips.
Actually, the instruction set was similar, though the op codes were different. Back in those days, I bought some software, editor, assembler, monitor and "SCELBAL" BASIC from Scelbi. They came with books of code listings in both octal and hex, which I entered by hand into my IMSAI 8080, as I had no other means to do it. I'd then save to cassette. The SCELBAL listing had both 8008 and 8080 code and the source was almost the same.
If you are wondering what that tower object is @0:56 into the video, that is a memory storage tape drive for mainframe computers. From what I recall of that era, such tapes, depending on length and data compression, could hold anywhere from 3 MB to 140 MB per reel; where those tape reels can also been seen @3:35 as those white upright objects on the right.
Sure, these computers look impressive, but I predict that within 100 years, computers will be twice as powerful, 10,000 times larger, and so expensive only the five richest kings in Europe will own them.
really they are getting much cheaper. You can get a computer for like $200 and it is like 100X better than what a top of the line computer could have gotten like 20 years ago.
An early computer executive around 1950 predicted that someday there could be 40 or 50 computers in the world. Asimov went the other way in his fiction, turning the trade name Univac which was well known in the early 1950s into the worldwide computer Multivac. Since he didn't specify the kind of technology that would be used, he didn't rule out many processors, so in a way he predicted the Internet and World Wide Web (except that Multivac's input had to be translated for it, and its output had to be translated by humans, by highly trained programmers; I think his concept was punched papertape).
"The Xerox Alto was so far ahead of its time it's a wonder this thing didn't completely dominate the computer market during the decade! [..] And all of this could be yours for just $40,000!" well...that's probably why it didn't dominate the computer market for the rest of the decade, just a hunch :P
Actually, some large offices could have used that system, given its economy of scale, if they needed to route human-type documents such as business letters among dozens of employees. Large newspapers, for example; sending stories from reporters into a queue for editing, then to a typesetting system. But that would also cut into the Xerox copying business, so they dropped it. They kept the xerographic printing technology, producing their own printers that allowed mainframe and minicomputer systems to print on letter paper rather than 11x14 or 8x14 fan-folded paper, and licensed the technology behind it to other companies, and when the patents expired, other companies just copied the design.
Blimey, I'm a dinosaur .. In the late 60s / Early 70s, I built numerous devices with ECL, and DTL and RTL logic families. Then along came TTL, and some years later CMOS. In around about 1979, the company I worked at had a slow Z80 / S100 based system doing general office admin stuff, and it clocked along at a whopping 1MHz, but to my astonishment we had a geek engineer who said he could replicate the exact Z80 functionality with a giant board of TTL, and he did eventually do it ! The thing I remember was that it managed to run at about 25MHz and that was dramatic back then, but getting it talk to other boards like ROM RAM and bus control .. was a nightmare. And it consumed hundreds of amps and heated up the room!!! Ahh, the good ol' days ...
When Woz was first developing the Apple, he worked at HP and he asked if there was any conflict. They said: " Nah, kid, that home computer stuff is no concern to real computer manufacturers. Go ahead and do what you want." "We ain't interested."
Sato here, in case you don't believe me en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasta In some countries pasta is eaten extensively, maybe every day. I don't know if your country has pasta, but you should seek it out and try it, it's delicious :-)
I want to see a video 20 years from now talking about how strange the computers we use today are..."They actually used a screen to display data"..."They used an ancient "keyboard" to input commands to the computer"...and "The computer was limited to only one Petabyte of storage"...
I don't think it's surprising that the Xerox Alto wasn't a big commercial success. It "wasted" to much of its computing power on drawing a UI that computer buyers at the time did neither want, nor understand. People who bought computers in this price class did not use the computers themselves, that was a job for programmers, and preferred to invest their money in useful calculations, rather than the convenience of their staff.
And similar objections were made to FORTRAN and COBOL by professional programmers, especially scientific programmers, who claimed that compiler generated code would be too inefficient. FORTRAN's early compilers "dumbed down" the language FOR THE MACHINE, so that the compiler would generate reasonably efficient code, and run reasonably efficiently on the 701 and its successors. Then the industry realized that a FORTRAN program written by the engineer or scientist who needed the calculations done, running correctly in 3 or 4 attempts, was a lot more efficient than a machine language program written by a programmer FOR that user, running correctly in 30 or 40 attempts (the last 10 tries to get that last few microseconds out of it). With COBOL the main purpose was to develop commercial programs which would be able to run together in an entire corporate system, be easily updated over their lifetimes as business needs changed, and be reviewable to some extent by intelligent non-technical managers (we're still waiting for THOSE to be developed, LOL). Business computing is more about how many units (customers, employees, inventory units, parts, and of course dollars) you can keep track of, and thus how many data records you can push through per operating shift, with a modest amount of calculating per record, than about CPU cycles anyway.
Widum Boise I fantasize about one with circular monitors. Idk but something about those old circular monitors and thinking of one's that are flat screen just seem cool to me
Yeah, it's not strictly necessary, you could use regular X/Y with massive amounts of invalid (not drawn) space, but polar would be much more efficient for circular displays.
Is it just me or was there a major shift from mouse on the left to mouse on the right? I remember in the early 90's most computers were set up with the mouse on the left, just like the picture of the xerox from the 70's at 4:06 above. It seems like most games came set up to use the arrow keys, but now they are all wasd standard. Any thoughts on why (or when) this switch happened? Or the accuracy of my perceptions?
toomdog I think my dad still has his mouse on the left. And no, he’s not left handed. He worked for UNIVAC starting in the 1960s - Naval Defense Systems. By the time he retired, the building he worked at was owned by Lockheed Martin, and his job title at retirement was that of Webmaster. Mom’s job at UNIVAC did not need/have a mouse until later... her mouse is on the right
It doesn’t matter... a mouse is a relative movement input device, unlike for example, a pen tablet. You move your hand, lift, reposition... the mouse doesn’t care ‘where’ it is. Only if it moves from A to B That’s exactly why the mouse gained popularity so quickly.
The first personal computer I remember was the Commodore Vic 20. I had access to a Univac 1108 with Hazeltine 2000 and Omron monitors, through a student aid job I had in high school. Learned a bit about Fortran 5 and ASCII Colbol. Kind got away from computers in the 80's and ended up working in Physical Therapy for almost 30 years. But wow this was a blast from the past.
Back in the mid 70s, I used to maintain Datapoint 2200 systems. Back then I was a technician with CN Telecommunications and they were used on a system called TRACS for maintaining freight train consists on the Canadian National Railway. The 2200 was connected to local printers (ASCII), remote printers (Baudot), card punch/reader (Hollerith) and to an IBM mainframe computer in Montreal (EBCDIC). That one little computer managed all that equipment in the four different codes in a system that was powered by a CPU board that emulated the Intel 8008. It even had the same instruction set. The reason they didn't use the Intel chip was it couldn't provide the necessary performance. I also had one of those SWTP keyboards, connected to my IMSAI 8080 computer.
+ William Gates at least claims to have "stolen" the Xerox PARC (Palo Alto Research Center) ideas in parallel with Jobs' "stealing" them. What gives the appearance of what you're saying, is that MS was always lagging a few years behind Apple in implementing the GUI OS.
No. According to Steve jobs autobiography by walter Issacson, steve jobs had it written in the contract that apple must be allowed to see all the technologies that Xerox PARC (Palo Alto research center) was developing. This contract was for the investment made by Venture capital arm of Xerox in Apple. Since, xerox management didn't give a fuck about their skunkwork lab, they had no problem with this arrangement. This is Steve jobs saw the GUI that was being developed by the Xerox PARC team. The program manager was so angry with this that she stormed out of the meeting.
I worked at Computerland's HQ during this era in the national support and product eval group. God, it makes me laugh now when I think back to how we all looked in amazement at the "new" 5MB Apple external hard drive for the Lisa and Apple III. "5 MB! It's incredible!" lol
Oh, oh ! That Triumph Adler. That looks familiar. My dad was a computer-programmer and I´m pretty sure he had that or something like it at home. I remember it was so damn loud! Mom made dad move it into our garage after a while because we could not sleep when he ran something on it at night. I was very lucky! When dad took me to work with him, I got to play all the historical games with the old computers they had saved where he worked and at home. Like Tennis for Two, Space War, Pong, Asteroids... all the True Classics.
The Xerox Alto absolutely FASCINATES me. Everything about it, just... HOW? HOW do you run an OS with a foldered filesystem and a windowed GUI, with Ethernet networking capabilities, driven with a mouse, all on nothing but 7400-series TTL ICs from 1973?!
$40000. $40000 is how. That's about $220,000 in 2017 dollars.
Remember the old adage: "Fast, cheap, and good -- pick any two!"
no he weaseled it out of them with stock promises... hes an extortionist
Better programmers and less wasteful software.
Modern programming is so far away from Assembly that many programmers aren't trained engineers like you had from 1965-1990 but secretaries and game power users that just like home computers and hack their way into a profession. Scripting like Java really wastes clock speed and memory resources for no real end gain, vs proper 2gl and 3gl compiled programs.
Thus the Apollo era computers could do the job with slower computers but more robust electronics and tighter software.
S Tho Aegis for the win!
I was once a NCR-500 computer repairman used primarily for logistics 800 words of iron core memory, the programs were loaded via 80 column key punched cards.
Instead of wood paneling for the TV Typewriter, they used the more retro feel of two planks of wood.
Whisper that! Don't give Clint any ideas about cladding his 486 in real wood...
Barry Manilowa
Well, they did elect Trudeau. LOL
Pretty much what Apple did with their first computer, too.
@@MarkTheMorose i THINK clint would already have done this if he wanted to, he likes the look of FAKE wood
Gotta go flintstone style and make a computer made out of rocks
The late 1970's and early 1980's saw the Cambrian Explosion of Computers.
"Wonder why they didn't dominate the generation"
"$40,000"
...and $40k was more like $80k in todays value
About $180,000
The price tag of the products, and their management saw their corporate mission as producing printed documents, not sending them from place to paper without printing them. Fortunately, IBM didn't see their corporate mission as producing time clocks and butcher scales (Hobart), and Remington didn't see theirs as just guns (so they went into typewriters and later the Univac computer).
In all honesty, it was because the companies who made them only had the elite and businesses (and possibly colleges) in mind. They weren't thinking of the average consumer at the time.
@@allanrichardson1468 we used to have a Remington hairdryer. Not sure if it's the same company though lol.
*"What on earth would ordinary people want with computers?"*
Simon Christensen and 640K is more than enough.
Lmao TH-cam considers this a top comment. Have a second like
Have a fourth
Have a 14th
Maybe the houshold budget or to keep recipes..
Holy crap, imagine trying to program on a one-line display. I'd be tempted to put my fist through the screen, except it wouldn't fit
To be fair, many interesting APL programs fit in a single line.
Imagine programming without display like on Altair 8800, with just a row of switches. :)
Sharp, Casio, and TI had pocket computers with one-line LCD screens that ran BASIC in the 1980s. Tandy also marketed various re-badged Sharp and Casio models. I never had one but they were kinda neat I guess. I suppose one of course would have to write down their programs before they typed them in and hoped for no typos.
surprisingly enough apl the language used for that machine is very presice a hello world in apl is litarlly just
'Hello World'
Made a simple boxing game for a one liner display.. you pick to swing high low or mid and it picks to block/swing like rock paper scissor with fists. And of course the number guessing game "Higher Lower"
I can't get enough of this series. I hope you do a round 2 on each of the decades. The 70s and 80s could be farmed for many more videos like this.
Love those retro futuristic 70s design aesthetics, where everyday objects look like pieces of design furniture. Was expecting a lot more wood paneling though.
I find The 70s in computing the most interesting era in computers, especially personal computers.
Because of the hit and miss of innovation or something else??
Yeah, and they cost as much or more than a mid to high end luxury car of the same era! They better be interesting!
Of course you would, HAL.
That's because you look like a computer from the 70s. Lol
+Vintr
The difference is that 70s computers are very capable of errors.
The Alto was the foundation for the Apple Lisa and then Macintosh. Steve Jobs grabbed the tech because frankly, Xerox had no idea what a goldmine they were sitting on.
TTL = transistor-transistor logic
TTL logic = transistor-transistor logic logic
ATM machine, HDD drive, PIN number.. it's all part of RAS syndrome 😋
@@mrburns366 Correct, though not necessarily a problem, in some cases necessary, and can help a reader who is unfamiliar with the acronym.Consider: "We use IBM machines and like to use the BCPL programming language". Yes, the redundancy could be avoided and you could just say "We use IBM and BCPL", but more readers would think "IBM for what? and what the heck is BCPL anyway" than with the first version.
I feel in some cases the acronym ends up trascending it's original meaning and becoming a category of it's own. For example, yes, "an ATM machine" literally would mean "an Automatic Teller Machine machine", but could also be interpreted as "a machine of the ATM type".
"An LGR review" = "A Lazy Game Reviews review" or "A review by youtuber LRG".
But "TT Logic" sounds strange. Kinda like Technology Connections saying "LC panel", even when that's warranted because what he's actually talking about is literally a homogenous panel rather than a display. But "LC display" would also sound odd, vs the technically incorrect "LCD display".
Great examples of tautology.
my parents bought an entire house for less than most of these computers cost in the 70's.
I could buy at least 10 high end computers today for some of these computers. 40 thousand for a computer, no thanks.
jthedog for a computer with like 100KB storage and 10KB ram lol
40K in 75 is something like 120K today. A system with an intel 7700K, a 1080ti, and 32GB of DDR4 (so not the highest you can go but it should crush whatever games you throw at it), can be build for something like 1200 dollars. so you can build 100 of those!
An Apple 1 is sold for $100K- $500K these days.. still more than a modest house, not much has changed :D
yet you can probably build one your self for a fraction of that, since it's all off-the shelf parts. or use a FPGA chip and run one. or use Rasberry pi and emulate one.
Always nice to see the Xerox Alto get some well deserved love.
For those interested in the Alto, Curious Marc (YT Channel) and group of guys, including original engineers, have restored one to near perfect working condition thanks to some crazy logic analysing methods using modern machines, original parts and software.
Thanks, looks interesting. I've always found the Also very interesting and was very disappointed when I started working at Xerox, and it turned out that they didn't have one stashed away in the basement :-(
Yeah, I'd be bummed too. Such an incredible machine for its time.
I just found the video where they overhaul an Alto's ancient hard drive. 😃
The Alto is the mother of MacOS and Windows. That thing is grossly underrated just because of this very fact.
Also, colorific :D
Steve Jobs basically stole the concept. Him and some Apple engineers went to study the Alto in exchange for Xerox getting stock in Apple but the outcome of that was Apple basically claiming the concepts as their own and turning Apple into a billion dollar company. Xerox got a raw deal, imo.
Honestly, they probably could have reworked the concept to be more mainstream if they had wanted to, but the Alto itself was priced at the cost of ten very nice cars at the time, making it more of a machine aimed at universities or publishers than consumers. The engineering required to take the concepts of the GUI + mouse and work them into a a consumer-affordable machine (the original Macintosh, after failing with the more powerful and much more expensive Lisa), was a real credit to Apple's engineers.
Today, we often take for granted that the concepts demonstrated by the Alto can be easily surpassed in quality and usability by a humble Raspberry Pi, but the Alto itself was a major work of engineering that was probably well worth its ridiculous (to us today) price. It took the passage of years (making more powerful components cheaper) + more engineering to "steal" those ideas for the Mac (and Windows, and X, etc.).
As if the 70's weren't weird enough... great video as usual
Bell-bottoms, Apple tech being *good,* afros, the 70s certainly were weird.
What about the 80s?
deleted comment.
Apple WAS a good company...then Steve Wozniak left
Hey, I lived through the 70's, and I ain't that weird . . . .
Hard to think of the ALTO as a 'strange' computer when for all intents and purposes, it was the prototype for the desktop PC. Bitmapped graphics, icons, GUI, WYSIWYG, Ethernet, BRAVO/GYPSY( the first word processors) plus laser printers are all pretty much used to this day.
The Xerox management allowed the Apple team to see what PARC was cooking up, in return for stock options in Apple. So basically nothing was really stolen from PARC, it was basically given away.
Xerox also didn't really see any future in a "paperless" office, so they shut down PARC, which was only a demo project anyway (and workstations that would have cost a hundred grand today made it unfeasible for customers). They did, however, use the "back end" of the xerographic technology to make the first laser printers, and their patents were copied when they expired to produce all of today's laser printers. In the mid-1970s, IBM produced a high speed printer with that technology for mainframes which used giant reels of perforated forms the size of newsprint rolls, able to print almost as fast as a newspaper printing press, and to produce graphics, variable type fonts and orientations, even pre-signed checks. So Xerox got some mileage out of that even after their patents expired.
(By "back end" I mean that rather than exposing an existing document to put the electrostatic image on the drum to produce the copy, a laser printer uses a laser beam and high speed mirror optics to scan the drum, and thus "copy" each page from digital data to paper.)
I like how the screen makes today´s non-wide screens look pretty wide.
Also, they pioneered object oriented programming with a “little” language called Smalltalk. Well, one of the first to implement OOP in a real environment. The operating system was written in Smalltalk, too.
A friend on mine in the 1980s had previously worked at PARC in the accounting department back in the late 1970s. She said the technology developed in that place was at least a decade ahead of what could become mainstream in the business world.
She amusingly told me that in the late 1970s, PARC had color copiers that were so good that the employees would copy one-dollar bills and run them through the change machine in the lunchroom, so the coins could be used to buy snacks and beverages from the coin-operated vending machines. Every week when the vending machine route driver serviced the lunchroom vending machines, including re-stocking the change machine, he'd come into the accounting department with around 20 bogus one-dollar bills, and have them exchanged for legal tender out of PARC's petty cash fund. What was very peculiar was that no one voiced any objections of that practice; as it was accepted as doing business in the high-tech world. xD
Curious Marc has an awesome set of videos on the Alto. It was/is an amazingly modern PC.
Dear Author,
I don't know if you are still cheking out comments here, but for me - you've made one the best retro channels on YT. Congratulations and keep doing such a great, interesting and teaching stuff.
Your viewer from far country. ;)
Plugging your computer into the living room TV, how ridiculous.
*looks at PC*
*looks at TV*
*looks at DisplayPort->HDMI cable*
moosemaimer why not a plain hdmi cable
My new HDTV has a VGA input
It took a while for televisions to catch up to computer monitors for specs. Especially resolution.
First tv i had with a VGA port was in 2007, and my lifestyle was ideal for hooking my pc to the tv then. Slightly different but my pc is hooked up to another tv via hdmi, but living room tv is smart tv with miracast. The jump in technology seems crazy
I actually use a 50" VIZIO 1080p LED as a monitor.
Good stuff Clint. Love love love these old machines.
Love this Series, Thank you for another awesome edition!
Thanks, I'm glad you're enjoying!
It's incredible how far technology has come in such a small amount of time... When you said one these had a 1kb ROM... It just made me think of the brand new phone I purchased yesterday which has 32gb ROM... insane how far we've come.
Still! We'd be nowhere without these computers! As you said with the C8008 chip for!
Awesome video! Thanks!
32 GB ROM? or RAM plus SSD? ROM is for the startup logic and the subroutines you don't want the OS to be able to change after booting up, so kilobytes would be more reasonable than megabytes, much less gigabytes. Most early PCs had 32 KB or 64 KB of ROM to hold the BIOS and power up logic, so the OS could boot up into RAM.
Sadly as memory is so cheap these days, it allows for a lot of bloat.
I was a computer tech for Datapoint back in the 70's and CTC 2200 (and later 5500 and 6600) formed the score of their commercial systems. No way were these a candidate for personal computer use. These ran a sophisticated programming language, could support about 16 async terminals and sync comms across what we would now call the wide area. The onboard cassette decks (fully servo controlled) were used primarily for diagnostics as the main system was hooked up to what was then some serious hard disk capacity - 20, 40, or even 60mb! Ah, those were the days!!
In the cretasic era, we paired sticks and stones... wow.
Must be another universe with those
I worked for one of those companies. Late 70s, Datapoint 2200 / 16k memory / 10Mb disk. Datashare language (like cobol but less 'wordy'), 6 dumb screens around the factory running Sales, inventory & planning. Sub-second response times. This was my start into IT. Now people talk about digitizing their companies ....
As I looked at it in the video, I was skeptical the CTC 2200 could be made even by a creative programmer to function as a general purpose computer disconnected from its mainframe. Although...when I used a keypunch that could read the previous card, I used to fantasize about making that the basis for a self-executing sequence, so....
I was also a tech, for CN Telecommunications, and maintained several of them. They didn't have a hard disk, so the cassettes were used for loading the program. Also, IIRC, there was a BASIC interpreter for them.
Congratulations, Clint!
You have become a true professional with this.
Your episodes are a pleasure to watch and better than anything i could watch on TV.
It's amazing how in the 1970s and 80s computers were built in all sorts of countries... Germany, USA, UK, Canada, even Brazil.
But now? They're mostly made in China.
Lots of different manufacturers in the UK (possibly 50 by the early 80's?). Acorn Atom of ~1978 was about the best. Superseding the US Commodore Pet as the most desired for home use.
And not just computers... basically almost everything. We're in the hands of China, whether we like it or not...
And Japan, Taiwan, Singapore, Hong Kong, Korea, USSR, Poland, GDR, Bulgaria, Romania, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Cuba, Greece, Italy, France, Belgium, Netherland, Finland, Sweden, Norway, Australia, and so on. The world was full of weird and wonderful computers :)
The computer variety went away simultaneously with the arrival of generally accepted standards - first the IBM PC (and more local ones - CP / M, Apple II, Macintosh, ZX Spectrum), and then Android / iOS.
The country of origin is not so important here - after all, China produces smartphones and PCs for companies around the world (developers are located in the USA, Japan, Korea, etc.), and these companies, Apple, Samsung, etc., have always been the largest manufacturers of phones, although it must be admitted that in recent years they are being overtaken by large Chinese corporations - Huawei, Xiaomi, Lenovo ...
Don't you love outsourcing?
@@DinnerForkTongue its not outsourcing per say. Its one economy specialising in one thing. Its also why most cars are built in the us and Germany or why most olive oil is produced in greece and Spain
God I love your historical computer videos! They are all so well done and I love the editing, and all the work that goes into them!
The TA-1000 is one letter away from the T-1000, they were trying to make the Terminator!
Coincidence? I think not! .... Thankfully, we now have better technologies, so defeating iit shouldn't be a problem.
Nep-Nep
I liked that intro type font for "The 1970's", Very cool and retro. Awesome video LGR!
The CS1 professor I had last semester actually worked on the Xerox Alto. He would always go on about how frusterating it was that the Xerox execs just didn't understand how innovative the machine was. He was there the day Steve Jobs came to visit. He's still a bit bitter over the fact Steve got most of the "innovative" idea that the macintosh was applauded for from the Alto, a computer which existed 10 years prior to the macintosh.
Justen J Well, having great ideas is one thing, realising their potential and impact is a completely different kettle of fish - the difference between Xerox and Steve 🤭
"Steve Jobs is better because he stole someone's real ideas" is not the hot take I was expecting to read today.
The Apple screen from the earlier models sure looks like the Alto screen.
You should have told your professor about Xerox stealing the GUI and mouse from Douglas Engelbart. At least Jobs paid Engelbart... (which happened to be the only money he ever saw from it). The Alto was never a commercial product, and it was also not very polished. While it had a lot of useful functions, they weren't implemented as well as on the Macintosh. You must remember that Apple hired about two dozen people from Xerox PARC to work on their systems so they could refine the ideas and simply make a better product. The Macintosh was a product you could buy so it's not surprising that this is the product that gets the attention and not a prototype that had little exposure.
i came for the sims reviews but i stayed for great content like this. LGR, doubt you’ll read this, but you have some of the best content on YT.
1:27 Looks like it had a built in mini fridge.
That's where you store the coal.
Papa Bear You need room for those pixies to dance
oooooh BEER STORAGE
Excellent video, I like how you apparently avoided the standard computers and showed us some really interesting models that we probably had never seen before.
Ever think it's crazy how science fiction predicted everything from virtual reality to holograms to touchscreens to pocket computers (smart phones and such)... But the one thing that nobody could have imagined was the mouse, up until its invention?
Nope, they sparked imagination to make it happen, science fiction was just about that, fiction.. when u try to translate it to real world u find a few pieces missing so u fill the gap (mouse)
FancyThat Sci fi didn't predict future technology, it's more that technology was inspired by Sci fi and tried to make products that were like what they saw in these shows and movies. Like when the first flip phone was developed, they specifically tried to make it like the one from star trek. That's not a prediction coming true, its something different
I personally believe that "Science Fiction" was just based on what they knew we had already simply because all of these so called "Futuristic" gadgets that seemed like "Science Fiction" Government intelligence agancies had decades before it ever bacame public knowledge that they existed and the Government intelligence agancies got this incredibly advanced technology from the Alien beings that are literally milennia ahead of us in terms of technology
FancyThat The mouse? “How quaint. Hello computer!”
Who the duck need mouse when you can touch everything or imagine by thinking in science fiction.
All of these computers are incredibly intresting and fun to learn about. They are often so unique and strange, the one with the A4 shaped screen realy stood out to me.
6:22
SCP.
“Gazelle”
Object class: Keter
Haha
Such an underrated comment
I could see a Joke SCP in this somewhere.
Hahahahha
@@jasonmitchell9411 Eh, when you get down to it, it could just be a sibling to 079 or 713... Though it might be fair to consider 86-DOS and its successors as an SCP in their own right.
Great memories there, thanks! It was so much fun in the '70s.
man that Xerox alto it's just about the sexiest thing I've ever seen
She's a beauty.
That's what Steve Jobs thought, too.
I remember seeing this at a COMDEX show back in the day, and my boss was very excited about it, how cool it was, the icons on the "desktop" (though that term had not yet been coined). I was used to typing commands, and basically went pffffh at the whole idea. Guess I was wrong :-/
indeed
Jedi Lennon ! It also had Ethernet!
+lucas rem "That Xerox Alto i used in 1986, to DTP the Dutch Atari User magazine"
How did you get hold of a Xerox Alto? As far as I know they where never sold to any company. And DTP software running on the Alto? Maybe you're confusing it with the Xerox Star?
As always I love these videos. Thanks LGR! I also notice lots of comments on the Alto, the Alto and most of these systems got their ideas from the NLS system, the first system to demonstrate the mouse, a GUI, wysiwyg, hyperlinks, video conferencing, word processing and basically all we take for granted. Douglas Engelbart and his team displayed this system in 1968 as what is now referred to as the Mother of all Demos. Several engineers from that team left to work for Xerox Parc and eventually developed the Alto. The demo is available on TH-cam, if you have not seen it check it out, it's pretty darn amazing!
Daniel Silveira Didn't he write a book, published a long time ago, with a nicer back/forward navigation design than TH-cam?
Thanks for mentioning Douglas Engelbart. He was a wonderful man and so much ahead of his time. I'm glad the demo is available here for everyone to see.
@@johnfrancisdoe1563 i think he wrote a few books but don't recall the name. I ended up doing a documentary on him that talks a lot about what he did. It's on TH-cam now and called The Augmentation of Douglas Engelbert. Check it out :-)
@@dm8579 I agree. He's a hero to me. I did a full documentary on him and it's on TH-cam and Amazon prime. The Augmentation of Douglas Engelbart. You should check it out!
Only $40,000 for 94k of RAM?! That's less than a dollar per k! BARGAIN!
You mean less than a dollar per BYTE, not K ;D
Like two bytes per Dollar
Might want to try the math again.
It's just 5.2 cents per bit. Still a bargain.
lol imagine that pricing. Today I just ordered a kit of 64GB of RAM LOL
Nice summary of these wonderful pieces of technology. Thanks for sharing!
I don't know if I'd consider these strange as much as they are simply historic.
fantastic. subscribed. thanks for making these. it's like watching mr. wizard. just a delight.
I heard "SCP" and had to look up from my coffee.
I love how these give me nostalgia despite being born in 1990.
This is because almost all of these were present in the illustrations within (then retro) futurism books in the libraries of my elementary and middle schools.
Bless this channel.
Mariner1712 Imagine how I feel, born in the 50s, and used half these machines !
Damn, the Xerox looks good.
Videos like this are the reason I watch retro tech. Excellent work on this.
I have such a soft sport for cassette/diskette drives, I just love the clunky feel of the whole thing. Even the PSP's UMD drive just makes me giddy :D
Oh mamma
:O Thank you so much!!
same old tech looks so cool
Same :) And I have a big heart for old hard drives. Especially those with a capacity of around 2gb. They make lovely noises. Old Akai Mpc audio samplers also made cute clunky sounds which you should definitely check out.
I own a PS Vita, but I use my PSP for PSP Games because of the drive :D It feels nice and the console is purring like a happy cat.
I came here quickly when I saw the video, because I thought you earned a like for using the apostrophe correctly in the video title.
Great series. I'd love to see a video dedicated to weird printers too!
That Xerox Alto was truly ahead of it's time!
Love this old tech reviews :3
I’d say no decade was more important for the development of computers than the 1970s that decade was like an electronics renaissance. Just think we went from electric tube computing, tape decks, records, and at the beginning of the decade color tv and touch tone dialing were revolutionary.
This decade gave us
• calculators
• LED displays
• video games
• microprocessors
• microwave ovens
• VCRs
• 8-track tapes
• cassette tapes
William TOAD Actually, you have probably missed the most important contribution made to computing during the 70s: virtual memory. Original development was at IBM, but it was the technical success of the Prime 100 that made smaller computers competitive with large machines and launched the minicomputer business.
The Radio Shack 1400 LT weighed in at 14 pounds well over a decade later, so the MCM/70 was pretty advanced for its size.
As you see from this fine post, computers were first designed by engineers who did not think of the home use of their machines.
Only as the decade came to a close did sales and marketing get into the design of a home computer that people would actually think of using.
Thanks for this trip down memory lane.
So *that's* who keeps all the crazy objects locked up. The Seattle Computer Company.
Somebody give the angel a hug before it breaks containment.
I don't know why i'm in love this channel,but it's very entertainming to watch.Keep up good job
We need more modern computers in these "weird" styles. I love them so much
The Alto brought about a precedence most people take for granted: it rendered fonts at 72 dots per inch, which is still the standard for rendering text and graphics today.
What about computer of the 50s & 60s? like the Univac II
Totally possible.
Or what about the very first electronic digital computer, Atanasoff Berry, and the sneaky efforts by the Eniac team to ignore it and try to take the spotlight for inventing the computer. Only because of an investigative young patent lawyer did they finally get recognition. There's a great documentary about it, could easily pass as a Grisham thriller.
Road trip to Iowa State University!?
What was the first computer to have a monitor? I'd like to know that.
Also the Digital PDP mini computers.
The Fairlight CMI should have been in this video. Aside from that, this is another great historical vid. Thanks, LGR.
Wait... IA-7301 is Penny from Inspector Gadget's computer book... are you telling me that Penny's computer book had an IRL counterpart?
That was the first question that entered my mind when I saw it. I always thought the computer book was simply a gimmick created for the show.
Yes, but it couldn't access a wireless network (Penny could access almost ANY computer's network).
I was working at a radio station which was using a Datapoint 2200 to do the daily commercial scheduling and monthly billing. When the IBM PC came out, and software for those functions arrived, I wound up with the 2200 as a play toy. Datapoint sold me the assembler and the BASIC language tapes and I wrote some fun toys in its whopping 16k of memory. I distinctly remember that you had to be careful with the stack. It was done in hardware with a pair of 7489 16x4 TTL RAM chips.
The predecessor of the x86 architecture was the 8080, not the 8008, which has a completely foreign instruction set from the 8080.
Not completely foreign. It was designed so that assembler sources (not binaries) could be automatically translated.
Actually, the instruction set was similar, though the op codes were different. Back in those days, I bought some software, editor, assembler, monitor and "SCELBAL" BASIC from Scelbi. They came with books of code listings in both octal and hex, which I entered by hand into my IMSAI 8080, as I had no other means to do it. I'd then save to cassette. The SCELBAL listing had both 8008 and 8080 code and the source was almost the same.
fantastic historical insight. Thanks again Clint
The SCP Gazelle looks like something I saw in a dream once; like some strange, otherworldly machine with some unknown functionality.
That's because it's a SCP
This was the comment I was looking for
If you are wondering what that tower object is @0:56 into the video, that is a memory storage tape drive for mainframe computers. From what I recall of that era, such tapes, depending on length and data compression, could hold anywhere from 3 MB to 140 MB per reel; where those tape reels can also been seen @3:35 as those white upright objects on the right.
Damn, the ALTO was an impressive piece of technology for the time-
and Xerox thru it out.. Apparantly managment was pissed off at the results, they wanted a new computer not this...this thing!
Thanks, Clint! Fascinating as always!
if im correct the Alto also was the grandfather of the Ethernet card
Great video. Not only I enjoy watching your videos, I usually learn from them too.
The Xerox Alto was way ahead of its time, holy shit.
Thank you so much for not playing background music to your video
Sure, these computers look impressive, but I predict that within 100 years, computers will be twice as powerful, 10,000 times larger, and so expensive only the five richest kings in Europe will own them.
really they are getting much cheaper. You can get a computer for like $200 and it is like 100X better than what a top of the line computer could have gotten like 20 years ago.
Could the Frinkiac-7 be used for dating?
ha ha the simpsons
An early computer executive around 1950 predicted that someday there could be 40 or 50 computers in the world. Asimov went the other way in his fiction, turning the trade name Univac which was well known in the early 1950s into the worldwide computer Multivac. Since he didn't specify the kind of technology that would be used, he didn't rule out many processors, so in a way he predicted the Internet and World Wide Web (except that Multivac's input had to be translated for it, and its output had to be translated by humans, by highly trained programmers; I think his concept was punched papertape).
a perfectly cromulent prediction...
I love the old computer desings.... they are so weird and fun. Today computers looks almost the same.
"The Xerox Alto was so far ahead of its time it's a wonder this thing didn't completely dominate the computer market during the decade! [..] And all of this could be yours for just $40,000!"
well...that's probably why it didn't dominate the computer market for the rest of the decade, just a hunch :P
Actually, some large offices could have used that system, given its economy of scale, if they needed to route human-type documents such as business letters among dozens of employees. Large newspapers, for example; sending stories from reporters into a queue for editing, then to a typesetting system. But that would also cut into the Xerox copying business, so they dropped it. They kept the xerographic printing technology, producing their own printers that allowed mainframe and minicomputer systems to print on letter paper rather than 11x14 or 8x14 fan-folded paper, and licensed the technology behind it to other companies, and when the patents expired, other companies just copied the design.
Blimey, I'm a dinosaur .. In the late 60s / Early 70s, I built numerous devices with ECL, and DTL and RTL logic families. Then along came TTL, and some years later CMOS. In around about 1979, the company I worked at had a slow Z80 / S100 based system doing general office admin stuff, and it clocked along at a whopping 1MHz, but to my astonishment we had a geek engineer who said he could replicate the exact Z80 functionality with a giant board of TTL, and he did eventually do it ! The thing I remember was that it managed to run at about 25MHz and that was dramatic back then, but getting it talk to other boards like ROM RAM and bus control .. was a nightmare. And it consumed hundreds of amps and heated up the room!!! Ahh, the good ol' days ...
Technically, the Alto wasn't available outside of Xerox. The Star was the version that you could buy IIRC
When Woz was first developing the Apple, he worked at HP and he asked if there was any conflict.
They said: " Nah, kid, that home computer stuff is no concern to real computer manufacturers. Go ahead and do what you want."
"We ain't interested."
God.... $40k in the 70s is just insanity
You are doing good work sir... very good work!
Scrolled down expecting someone to have made a comment about that Seattle Computer Products one being "SCP".. would make for an easy pasta.
It's a foundation front company
Sato What do you mean? Pasta is a type of food, computers are electronic devices and are not food. They have nothing to do with pasta.
Sato here, in case you don't believe me en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasta
In some countries pasta is eaten extensively, maybe every day. I don't know if your country has pasta, but you should seek it out and try it, it's delicious :-)
we get it man, the pasta joke isn't that funny
I want to see a video 20 years from now talking about how strange the computers we use today are..."They actually used a screen to display data"..."They used an ancient "keyboard" to input commands to the computer"...and "The computer was limited to only one Petabyte of storage"...
I don't think it's surprising that the Xerox Alto wasn't a big commercial success. It "wasted" to much of its computing power on drawing a UI that computer buyers at the time did neither want, nor understand. People who bought computers in this price class did not use the computers themselves, that was a job for programmers, and preferred to invest their money in useful calculations, rather than the convenience of their staff.
And similar objections were made to FORTRAN and COBOL by professional programmers, especially scientific programmers, who claimed that compiler generated code would be too inefficient. FORTRAN's early compilers "dumbed down" the language FOR THE MACHINE, so that the compiler would generate reasonably efficient code, and run reasonably efficiently on the 701 and its successors. Then the industry realized that a FORTRAN program written by the engineer or scientist who needed the calculations done, running correctly in 3 or 4 attempts, was a lot more efficient than a machine language program written by a programmer FOR that user, running correctly in 30 or 40 attempts (the last 10 tries to get that last few microseconds out of it).
With COBOL the main purpose was to develop commercial programs which would be able to run together in an entire corporate system, be easily updated over their lifetimes as business needs changed, and be reviewable to some extent by intelligent non-technical managers (we're still waiting for THOSE to be developed, LOL). Business computing is more about how many units (customers, employees, inventory units, parts, and of course dollars) you can keep track of, and thus how many data records you can push through per operating shift, with a modest amount of calculating per record, than about CPU cycles anyway.
im glad for the title change for this one since these really weren't "Weird" designs like the 80's, 90's and 00's videos.
Does anyone else fantasize about an alternate history where computers adapted a portrait style of monitor instead of landscape?
A lot of flat screen monitors can be rotated for Portrait Mode nowadays (I think mine as well).
Widum Boise I fantasize about one with circular monitors. Idk but something about those old circular monitors and thinking of one's that are flat screen just seem cool to me
Circular monitors would change a lot. Everything would be based on polar coordinates instead of X and Y.
Electroduck's Gaming Videos Not necessarily. Look at the apple watches.
Yeah, it's not strictly necessary, you could use regular X/Y with massive amounts of invalid (not drawn) space, but polar would be much more efficient for circular displays.
GREAT AS ALWAYS THANK YOU CLINT
Is it just me or was there a major shift from mouse on the left to mouse on the right? I remember in the early 90's most computers were set up with the mouse on the left, just like the picture of the xerox from the 70's at 4:06 above. It seems like most games came set up to use the arrow keys, but now they are all wasd standard.
Any thoughts on why (or when) this switch happened?
Or the accuracy of my perceptions?
toomdog I think my dad still has his mouse on the left. And no, he’s not left handed. He worked for UNIVAC starting in the 1960s - Naval Defense Systems. By the time he retired, the building he worked at was owned by Lockheed Martin, and his job title at retirement was that of Webmaster.
Mom’s job at UNIVAC did not need/have a mouse until later... her mouse is on the right
It doesn’t matter... a mouse is a relative movement input device, unlike for example, a pen tablet.
You move your hand, lift, reposition... the mouse doesn’t care ‘where’ it is.
Only if it moves from A to B
That’s exactly why the mouse gained popularity so quickly.
4:35 For $450 you get the textbook AND the hardware AND the course? Man was this thing ahead of it's time. That'd be a fantastic price even now!
"Also known as a computer in a book"
Hmm, where have I heard that before?
The first personal computer I remember was the Commodore Vic 20. I had access to a Univac 1108 with Hazeltine 2000 and Omron monitors, through a student aid job I had in high school. Learned a bit about Fortran 5 and ASCII Colbol. Kind got away from computers in the 80's and ended up working in Physical Therapy for almost 30 years. But wow this was a blast from the past.
I used to do my FORTRAN homework on a VAX 11/780. 🙂
Maybe it's just me, but these designs don't look that odd for the time! Except maybe for the imagination, the Xerox and the Iasis.
Back in the mid 70s, I used to maintain Datapoint 2200 systems. Back then I was a technician with CN Telecommunications and they were used on a system called TRACS for maintaining freight train consists on the Canadian National Railway. The 2200 was connected to local printers (ASCII), remote printers (Baudot), card punch/reader (Hollerith) and to an IBM mainframe computer in Montreal (EBCDIC). That one little computer managed all that equipment in the four different codes in a system that was powered by a CPU board that emulated the Intel 8008. It even had the same instruction set. The reason they didn't use the Intel chip was it couldn't provide the necessary performance. I also had one of those SWTP keyboards, connected to my IMSAI 8080 computer.
is the Zerox alto the thing Apple ripped off, and then Microsoft ripped off of them to make Windows?
So goes the legend!
William Xerox. I think Apple had some rights to copy it.
+ William
Gates at least claims to have "stolen" the Xerox PARC (Palo Alto Research Center) ideas in parallel with Jobs' "stealing" them.
What gives the appearance of what you're saying, is that MS was always lagging a few years behind Apple in implementing the GUI OS.
Yes, but I think Apple had paid Xerox to have a peek.
No. According to Steve jobs autobiography by walter Issacson, steve jobs had it written in the contract that apple must be allowed to see all the technologies that Xerox PARC (Palo Alto research center) was developing. This contract was for the investment made by Venture capital arm of Xerox in Apple. Since, xerox management didn't give a fuck about their skunkwork lab, they had no problem with this arrangement. This is Steve jobs saw the GUI that was being developed by the Xerox PARC team.
The program manager was so angry with this that she stormed out of the meeting.
I honestly don't understand 90% of what you talked about, but I find your videos to be interesting :)
old computers are amazing.
I worked at Computerland's HQ during this era in the national support and product eval group. God, it makes me laugh now when I think back to how we all looked in amazement at the "new" 5MB Apple external hard drive for the Lisa and Apple III. "5 MB! It's incredible!" lol
.... 1 *Kilobyte* rom?! I'm so glad we live in the year 2017. Fresh Oats for everyone!!!!!!!!!
I don't even know that much about computers and shit but I love watching this channel.
For future reference from a microcomputer engineer....not eight-thousand-eight series, but eighty-oh-eight.
Oh, oh ! That Triumph Adler. That looks familiar. My dad was a computer-programmer and I´m pretty sure he had that or something like it at home. I remember it was so damn loud! Mom made dad move it into our garage after a while because we could not sleep when he ran something on it at night. I was very lucky! When dad took me to work with him, I got to play all the historical games with the old computers they had saved where he worked and at home. Like Tennis for Two, Space War, Pong, Asteroids... all the True Classics.
I press like before I watch the video, cause I am certain it's gonna be amazing.
A shame that 43 others, so far, do something quite different.
Great video man.