Very nice!! I do wish more players understand the support role!! It's difficult how to explain roles as they can be situational but you did a fine job.
Lt. Peacekeep you are wonderful player with great knowledge. It is very difficult to translate you when you have great fun. You talk much faster. But good to understand you enjoy this so much.
Please make more stuff like this, it really helps clarify the stuff you talk about in your ship guides. Can you also make a guide on cruiser positioning? I got a Moskva but a lot of my games are low damage because of positioning badly.
In the moskva at the very start sit about 15km from nearest enemy cruiser and bb. Then about every 4 minutes move in 2km closer. This of course depends on how much you're getting focused. But don't be afraid of taking some damage. Very few players can play at that 18, range and hit targets well. Your AP is just as good as your he as well so make sure to use it
I don't think Missouri is the best ship to use to explain these tactics, entirely because she has radar. Those moments such as when you were able to confidently push the destroyer smoke, you can do that in Missouri since you're the one BB in the game that has radar. But when you're in something like Iowa or Amagi? Pushing that smoke is insanely reckless if you don't have a guarantee of a radar cruiser or something like a Loyang with super hydro moving up with you.
+Seraphil1 Fair point. Although the tactics are still sound if you have radar cruiser support or they are not hiding in smoke. That said, given I was detected, I had no direction to go but towards him or risk eating his torpedo spread.
Good discussion on the pushing. I find myself failing to push and bow tanking all day while reversing and dying a slow death. The reason I'm loving the Alabama is because I feel more comfortable taking my chances with the death turn when I can't go un-detected or otherwise find cover. Just sucks when your top tier cruisers bail on you!
As far as "closing the barn door" he was talking about. One of the Iowa class ships executing an emergency stop during refit sea trials turned its starboard rudder to port and its port rudder to starboard. In effect it was like closing massive doors behind the two inboard screws and made the ship stop in a record setting distance from a ship its size. It did however, cause some damage to the rudders and that was never done again.
Cirux321 I don't know that it caused any significant damage but it's been a while since I read the report. I know the ship that did it always had a serious rudder vibration and problems with the bolts loosening on the rudders after that.
btw, for those interested in knowing how the Revolutsiya is. It's a GUN SHIP. do NOT try to tank with it if you get it. it is a ranged high damage support vessel with fantastic dispersion. Find those broadsides and hit them hard. I recently had an salty teammate yell at me to push into the battle... despite the fact that we were winning, because he was under the impression that just because i'm in a BB that i can tank.... no... that is a HUGE no. Do not do it, you will regret it. :)
Biggest problems I've encountered as a BB are teammates just abandoning you after you go in to support them and no cover when you have to get out of an area and other ships are right there by are not even firing at all. I haven't seen DDs laying down much smoke cover at all for teammates. I see most DDs rush in to cap and try to torpedo everything and the nearly all smokescreens they lay down are for themselves. Maybe its much, much different in high tier, but that's what I've been seeing lately. One thing with fires, the most painful cruiser I've seen is the Atlanta. The thing is a machine gun out on the water and its non stop fires on your ship.
Great Video. You make a good point about prioritizing radar ships. Until recently I had not played a lot of higher tier battles and watching your video I realized that I didn't know precisely which ships had radar or not so I took the time to find out. Here is my list for anyone in the same position: Tier 7 : Atlanta, Flint, Indianapolis, Belfast Tier 8 : New Orleans, Edinburgh, Chapayev (all USA, UK, USSR cruisers) Tier 9 : Baltimore, Neptune, Dimitri Domskoi (all USA, UK, USSR cruisers), Missouri Tier 10 : Des Moines, Minotaur, Moskva (all USA UK, USSR cruisers) Hope this help and if I've missed one please feel free to add. Update: I understand that Pan-Asian DD's tier 8 through 10 will have radar. This is not confirmed
+Suryia Flint has smoke and no radar, FYI. You also missed the USS Black at T9. ;) Otherwise, you got the majority of them. RNCLs can almost be ignored since so few run radar but they are excellent DD hunters even without it.
I tend to prioritize IJN Torpedo boats higher when I'm in a battleship or a cruiser. My reasoning is I can't kill other ships if I'm dead and Shimakaze torpedoes happen to be good at ruining my day if they make it to my flank.
Jeff Shapiro Definetely a couple of schools of thought on that. I see your point and it's a good one but I feel that keeping friendly DDs alive is more important than me taking a torp or two.
Great advice I play in a very similar if not slightly more cautious fashion however most teams would simply sit and watch. U die then trash talk u for dieing early
Sad but true! :( This is the way of the game anymore. There used to be more team play back in CBT, but you had to when you had a full 3 tier spread just to have full games... nothing like being in a stock hull Colorado and going against Yamato's! :D That was back when the stock hull Colorado was the WWI cage mast Colorado, not the stock hull we have now!
At about what point would you say that you had crossed the line between pushing and over extending? Hindsight is always 20-20, but I'd say about the 14:00 mark of the battle. Just as you encountered the DD to your starboard. At that point you had DDs on both flanks, and 3 or 4 enemies ahead of you. You started to turn right towards the DD, but bailed on that turn. Had you continued, you'd have some islands to your left flank for line-of-sight protection. Not being negative.. I'm really curious. I tend to play too aggressive myself, and probably would have done the same thing.
glrider100 There about is accurate. The problem with continuing that turn was with their BB positioning, it would have been a lot of broadside for a long period of time to make it to the islands. =/
True. And had you turned and withdrew, you'd've left the other Missouri out to dry. Not that he lasted much longer anyway. Maybe it was even earlier, when you saw the other ships not accompanying you. But at that point, you didn't know so many enemy ships were ahead. Oh.. left you a message on the discussion page.
Thank you for pointing out the importance of destroyers. CVS are better at taking out enemy destroyers than bbs. I'm a destroyer player and too many times I'm left to fend for myself. If everyone does their job you win matches
Great vid. Really appreciate this format. Question: Rather than making that death-turn where you lost most of your HP, would it not have been better to stay bow on and throw it in reverse?
I too would appreciate a response to this question. Im my experience Reversing is not advantageous because BB momentum is harder to slow down, and you add time to accelaration foward by going in reverse which makes dodging surprise torps near impossible. Only time I've used this reversing tactic sucessfully was when another BB came beside me and took point, and or a DD dropped smoke with additional artillery support. Hope this helps.
With the Yuugumo being where he was, I was probably going to eat his torps big time if I stopped. The death turn was preferable as you have speed to disengage and maneuver. In truth, had I not eaten that torpedo, I would have been fine but that allowed any fire afterwards to burn me down. Could have survived the one fire but two was too much.
My 2 cents. If there are no enemy DDs around and the area around me is spotted or in other words if I can be sure that there cannot possibly be any torps sent into my flank I prefer to reverse but it depends on what BB you drive. Reversing in the north carolina for example is something that works great for me. You can reverse and keep your bow pointed at the threat, keep your guns firing, be a hard target to hit and almost impossible to pen. You also increase the distance any possible torps have to travel while still keeping yourself a small target which makes those torps easier to dodge. Often when turning to disengage you are committed to the turn once you start, and in that case torps can really mess up your day either by forcing you to sail broadside, turn back in or eating the torps. I find reversing most effective with some island cover on either your port or starboard side. Wouldn't reccommend it in a really slow BB though such as the Colorado. Always make sure if you stop or start reversing that within 10km is being spotted by either a DD or planes. In a pinch a catapult fighter or spotting plane may work. In an ideal situation you can sit there dealing damage while being under fire for 10 min as you laugh and hear incoming shots go "ping, poing, ping" and bounce or do minor damage.
The problem is, that whole push was dependent on you having radar against the Udaloi (and Kagero) just after it started. If you'd been in a battleship other than the Missouri, you'd have been toast and the push would have likely failed to hurt the enemy half as much... and the Missouri is the only BB in the game with radar.
There was another Missouri next to me but it could have just as easily been a DD or a radar cruiser that popped it. The point is more or less to focus on the ships that pose the greatest threat to your DD's first. I was able to use my radar, but there was a radar ship next to me that could have as well, or a DD could have gone and spotted him, or any number of other tactics. I can't post videos showing every single push I do in a BB, although if you watch most of my BB Epic Battle videos they'll usually show me leading or heavily supporting a push. :)
Sure, I take your point about the second Missouri and also focusing the cruisers/anti-DD threat, but my point is that being able to do that effectively is situational. If no one in your division has radar, or you're playing lower tier where there is little-to-no radar, being bold and pushing into an enemy DD screen is a risk that won't often pay off. The thing you see all too often is BB drivers being too passive, so I'll happily applaud players like yourself that know when and how to push; but it's rare that you see it in randoms because it rarely works. Communication and awareness are the critical factors... it's not a case of being "cowards" as such. BBs seem to tunnel, lose map awareness and then wonder why all their cruisers and destroyers are dead.
Doubtful. With the trend they have established with Kronshtadt and Stalingrad, it's unlikely that BC's will be anything more than battleships or high tier cruisers depending on the ship's capabilities in real life!
As someone who plays on xbox, I hate how everyone literally gives full broadsides as battleships 100% of the time but bitch when they get citadeled by everything that is looking at them with AP in the guns
Sound advice WGL and as you discovered its very hard to get team support . Yes you did overextend and that was a mistake I make often. in the end you got 3 kills and tied up that flank so you can rightly say it was successful Players moan about camping BBs but won't support them when they do push. On the other hand if the CA had pushed with you they would have got wrecked by the BBs before they killed the DDs The Benson could have tried to smoke you but again most DDs are selfish the smoke gives away their position and they dont get hits with the torps they just launched as people then know they are there
Hindsight is always 20/20 and he had a play in his mind that he felt was best or maybe he didn't think about it. Lots of variables. The real key would have been for me not to over extend in the first place. :)
Admiral Draco It's difficult to predict when you are focused elsewhere, I wish the F8 function (I need a smoke screen) would ping the player and flash the screen or something to let them know. I probably would have kept sailing too because it would have blocked LOS to me and I could disengage fully.
Because I love you so much peace keeper, STW FTW. Here are 2 videos of being aggressive. one is with some back up. one is without. replayswows.com/replay/7087#stats small amount of back up, paying attention to position of enemy dds to avoid torps. replayswows.com/replay/7088 when you need to either pay attention and pull out, or the team atleast move up to help and not sit 20km back. Still a good push I think on my part with how long I lived but I over extended. avoid my tilt at the end.Besides all that what you say is very true and I hate that some players don't understand this. when you are being aggressive you need to make sure your dds don't die before you. They are the key to a successful push. plus as your pushing enemy out of the cap zones your dds can cap it where as you can not cause your getting hit.Jamesalot_ET
Fully Deleted Des Moines for 53500... xD You need to be more recognized Whiskey. do you stream? I bet if you did, and pulled in most of your viewer base, you'd get even more YT follower base.
+Seluecus1 I used to a little bit but stopped when financially I couldn't support the Internet bill and had to step down my Internet speed where live streaming just lags the game too much. While I could now up speeds again, I don't have the free time to consistently do it to develop the following on twitch or youtube live so I stick to videos. =/
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Very nice!! I do wish more players understand the support role!! It's difficult how to explain roles as they can be situational but you did a fine job.
Peter Darling Definetely! Thanks for watching and being a part of this community!
Lt. Peacekeep you are wonderful player with great knowledge. It is very difficult to translate you when you have great fun. You talk much faster. But good to understand you enjoy this so much.
Please make more stuff like this, it really helps clarify the stuff you talk about in your ship guides. Can you also make a guide on cruiser positioning? I got a Moskva but a lot of my games are low damage because of positioning badly.
I agree - I think that format would be applicable to epic battle replays potentially as well.
vasdklwje I'll try too. I need to play the game more in general but cruisers especially.
In the moskva at the very start sit about 15km from nearest enemy cruiser and bb. Then about every 4 minutes move in 2km closer. This of course depends on how much you're getting focused. But don't be afraid of taking some damage. Very few players can play at that 18, range and hit targets well. Your AP is just as good as your he as well so make sure to use it
I don't think Missouri is the best ship to use to explain these tactics, entirely because she has radar. Those moments such as when you were able to confidently push the destroyer smoke, you can do that in Missouri since you're the one BB in the game that has radar. But when you're in something like Iowa or Amagi? Pushing that smoke is insanely reckless if you don't have a guarantee of a radar cruiser or something like a Loyang with super hydro moving up with you.
+Seraphil1 Fair point. Although the tactics are still sound if you have radar cruiser support or they are not hiding in smoke. That said, given I was detected, I had no direction to go but towards him or risk eating his torpedo spread.
Good discussion on the pushing. I find myself failing to push and bow tanking all day while reversing and dying a slow death. The reason I'm loving the Alabama is because I feel more comfortable taking my chances with the death turn when I can't go un-detected or otherwise find cover.
Just sucks when your top tier cruisers bail on you!
As far as "closing the barn door" he was talking about. One of the Iowa class ships executing an emergency stop during refit sea trials turned its starboard rudder to port and its port rudder to starboard. In effect it was like closing massive doors behind the two inboard screws and made the ship stop in a record setting distance from a ship its size. It did however, cause some damage to the rudders and that was never done again.
Cirux321 I don't know that it caused any significant damage but it's been a while since I read the report. I know the ship that did it always had a serious rudder vibration and problems with the bolts loosening on the rudders after that.
btw, for those interested in knowing how the Revolutsiya is. It's a GUN SHIP. do NOT try to tank with it if you get it. it is a ranged high damage support vessel with fantastic dispersion. Find those broadsides and hit them hard.
I recently had an salty teammate yell at me to push into the battle... despite the fact that we were winning, because he was under the impression that just because i'm in a BB that i can tank.... no... that is a HUGE no. Do not do it, you will regret it. :)
Biggest problems I've encountered as a BB are teammates just abandoning you after you go in to support them and no cover when you have to get out of an area and other ships are right there by are not even firing at all. I haven't seen DDs laying down much smoke cover at all for teammates. I see most DDs rush in to cap and try to torpedo everything and the nearly all smokescreens they lay down are for themselves. Maybe its much, much different in high tier, but that's what I've been seeing lately. One thing with fires, the most painful cruiser I've seen is the Atlanta. The thing is a machine gun out on the water and its non stop fires on your ship.
+crimsonstorm34 Some DD players have it figured out to support friendly ships with smoke. It's becoming more common but isn't a universal tactic yet.
Great advice; I love these types of videos. Thanks, Admiral!
Thanks for watching! :)
Great Video. You make a good point about prioritizing radar ships. Until recently I had not played a lot of higher tier battles and watching your video I realized that I didn't know precisely which ships had radar or not so I took the time to find out. Here is my list for anyone in the same position:
Tier 7 : Atlanta, Flint, Indianapolis, Belfast
Tier 8 : New Orleans, Edinburgh, Chapayev (all USA, UK, USSR cruisers)
Tier 9 : Baltimore, Neptune, Dimitri Domskoi (all USA, UK, USSR cruisers), Missouri
Tier 10 : Des Moines, Minotaur, Moskva (all USA UK, USSR cruisers)
Hope this help and if I've missed one please feel free to add.
Update: I understand that Pan-Asian DD's tier 8 through 10 will have radar. This is not confirmed
+Suryia Flint has smoke and no radar, FYI. You also missed the USS Black at T9. ;) Otherwise, you got the majority of them. RNCLs can almost be ignored since so few run radar but they are excellent DD hunters even without it.
thx. I'm crap :-)
All German dds have hydro
I tend to prioritize IJN Torpedo boats higher when I'm in a battleship or a cruiser. My reasoning is I can't kill other ships if I'm dead and Shimakaze torpedoes happen to be good at ruining my day if they make it to my flank.
Jeff Shapiro Definetely a couple of schools of thought on that. I see your point and it's a good one but I feel that keeping friendly DDs alive is more important than me taking a torp or two.
Great advice I play in a very similar if not slightly more cautious fashion however most teams would simply sit and watch. U die then trash talk u for dieing early
Sad but true! :( This is the way of the game anymore. There used to be more team play back in CBT, but you had to when you had a full 3 tier spread just to have full games... nothing like being in a stock hull Colorado and going against Yamato's! :D That was back when the stock hull Colorado was the WWI cage mast Colorado, not the stock hull we have now!
At about what point would you say that you had crossed the line between pushing and over extending? Hindsight is always 20-20, but I'd say about the 14:00 mark of the battle. Just as you encountered the DD to your starboard. At that point you had DDs on both flanks, and 3 or 4 enemies ahead of you. You started to turn right towards the DD, but bailed on that turn. Had you continued, you'd have some islands to your left flank for line-of-sight protection.
Not being negative.. I'm really curious. I tend to play too aggressive myself, and probably would have done the same thing.
glrider100 There about is accurate. The problem with continuing that turn was with their BB positioning, it would have been a lot of broadside for a long period of time to make it to the islands. =/
True. And had you turned and withdrew, you'd've left the other Missouri out to dry. Not that he lasted much longer anyway. Maybe it was even earlier, when you saw the other ships not accompanying you. But at that point, you didn't know so many enemy ships were ahead.
Oh.. left you a message on the discussion page.
Thank you for pointing out the importance of destroyers. CVS are better at taking out enemy destroyers than bbs. I'm a destroyer player and too many times I'm left to fend for myself. If everyone does their job you win matches
Great vid. Really appreciate this format. Question: Rather than making that death-turn where you lost most of your HP, would it not have been better to stay bow on and throw it in reverse?
I too would appreciate a response to this question. Im my experience Reversing is not advantageous because BB momentum is harder to slow down, and you add time to accelaration foward by going in reverse which makes dodging surprise torps near impossible. Only time I've used this reversing tactic sucessfully was when another BB came beside me and took point, and or a DD dropped smoke with additional artillery support.
Hope this helps.
With the Yuugumo being where he was, I was probably going to eat his torps big time if I stopped. The death turn was preferable as you have speed to disengage and maneuver. In truth, had I not eaten that torpedo, I would have been fine but that allowed any fire afterwards to burn me down. Could have survived the one fire but two was too much.
My 2 cents. If there are no enemy DDs around and the area around me is spotted or in other words if I can be sure that there cannot possibly be any torps sent into my flank I prefer to reverse but it depends on what BB you drive. Reversing in the north carolina for example is something that works great for me. You can reverse and keep your bow pointed at the threat, keep your guns firing, be a hard target to hit and almost impossible to pen. You also increase the distance any possible torps have to travel while still keeping yourself a small target which makes those torps easier to dodge. Often when turning to disengage you are committed to the turn once you start, and in that case torps can really mess up your day either by forcing you to sail broadside, turn back in or eating the torps. I find reversing most effective with some island cover on either your port or starboard side. Wouldn't reccommend it in a really slow BB though such as the Colorado. Always make sure if you stop or start reversing that within 10km is being spotted by either a DD or planes. In a pinch a catapult fighter or spotting plane may work.
In an ideal situation you can sit there dealing damage while being under fire for 10 min as you laugh and hear incoming shots go "ping, poing, ping" and bounce or do minor damage.
Learning lots! Thank you!
Lol this is like every missouri game i play, live fast, die young, still top of the scoreboard xD
+boreas real Gotta love the ship to death! She just tries so hard to make her captain lots of credits and XP! =3
The problem is, that whole push was dependent on you having radar against the Udaloi (and Kagero) just after it started. If you'd been in a battleship other than the Missouri, you'd have been toast and the push would have likely failed to hurt the enemy half as much... and the Missouri is the only BB in the game with radar.
There was another Missouri next to me but it could have just as easily been a DD or a radar cruiser that popped it. The point is more or less to focus on the ships that pose the greatest threat to your DD's first. I was able to use my radar, but there was a radar ship next to me that could have as well, or a DD could have gone and spotted him, or any number of other tactics. I can't post videos showing every single push I do in a BB, although if you watch most of my BB Epic Battle videos they'll usually show me leading or heavily supporting a push. :)
Sure, I take your point about the second Missouri and also focusing the cruisers/anti-DD threat, but my point is that being able to do that effectively is situational. If no one in your division has radar, or you're playing lower tier where there is little-to-no radar, being bold and pushing into an enemy DD screen is a risk that won't often pay off. The thing you see all too often is BB drivers being too passive, so I'll happily applaud players like yourself that know when and how to push; but it's rare that you see it in randoms because it rarely works. Communication and awareness are the critical factors... it's not a case of being "cowards" as such. BBs seem to tunnel, lose map awareness and then wonder why all their cruisers and destroyers are dead.
Do you think they add a separate class for battlecruisers?
Doubtful. With the trend they have established with Kronshtadt and Stalingrad, it's unlikely that BC's will be anything more than battleships or high tier cruisers depending on the ship's capabilities in real life!
As someone who plays on xbox, I hate how everyone literally gives full broadsides as battleships 100% of the time but bitch when they get citadeled by everything that is looking at them with AP in the guns
AP damage = not repairable right?
Only Citadel Damage can't be repaired, but I think only a small fraction of other AP damage can be repaired!
Sound advice WGL and as you discovered its very hard to get team support . Yes you did overextend and that was a mistake I make often. in the end you got 3 kills and tied up that flank so you can rightly say it was successful Players moan about camping BBs but won't support them when they do push.
On the other hand if the CA had pushed with you they would have got wrecked by the BBs before they killed the DDs
The Benson could have tried to smoke you but again most DDs are selfish the smoke gives away their position and they dont get hits with the torps they just launched as people then know they are there
Sound like typical OBT DD player eh? ;)
Hindsight is always 20/20 and he had a play in his mind that he felt was best or maybe he didn't think about it. Lots of variables. The real key would have been for me not to over extend in the first place. :)
You are 100% correct its easy to say I would not have done that after you see the result
Good advice but every time i smoke up a injured team mate they just sail right through my smoke and die lol
Admiral Draco It's difficult to predict when you are focused elsewhere, I wish the F8 function (I need a smoke screen) would ping the player and flash the screen or something to let them know. I probably would have kept sailing too because it would have blocked LOS to me and I could disengage fully.
It would make it easier if it did that
I like this guy👌👌
Because I love you so much peace keeper, STW FTW. Here are 2 videos of being aggressive. one is with some back up. one is without. replayswows.com/replay/7087#stats small amount of back up, paying attention to position of enemy dds to avoid torps. replayswows.com/replay/7088 when you need to either pay attention and pull out, or the team atleast move up to help and not sit 20km back. Still a good push I think on my part with how long I lived but I over extended. avoid my tilt at the end.Besides all that what you say is very true and I hate that some players don't understand this. when you are being aggressive you need to make sure your dds don't die before you. They are the key to a successful push. plus as your pushing enemy out of the cap zones your dds can cap it where as you can not cause your getting hit.Jamesalot_ET
Fully Deleted Des Moines for 53500... xD
You need to be more recognized Whiskey. do you stream? I bet if you did, and pulled in most of your viewer base, you'd get even more YT follower base.
+Seluecus1 I used to a little bit but stopped when financially I couldn't support the Internet bill and had to step down my Internet speed where live streaming just lags the game too much.
While I could now up speeds again, I don't have the free time to consistently do it to develop the following on twitch or youtube live so I stick to videos. =/