piercer here. a lot of times the hoop is 18ga and the nose stud is 20ga, so the ring actually ends up needing forced a little bit, but it goes through with some force and minimal pain, but there is a touch of pain usually if it’s pretty fresh still (2 months) but even at 2 years you have to push it with decent force to get it in. tips: jump ring opener tool. looks like a ring with slits in it. $3 at craft store (hobby lobby, michaels). use some vaseline on the ring to help it slide/minimize trauma. harbor freight has $3 little clamps to hold ring for more control if you want, they’re just like the dermal forceps we have at work basically. sometimes just holding a tiny ring is the hard part lol. and just also be patient and don’t try to do it too early and end up with a bloody nose and an even longer healing time. jewelry change fee is $5 cash at my shop, it’s worth it to bring your ring in and just have someone do it for you. i change prob 5 studs to hoops a day at work on average. even i have trouble with some noses, it can just be tricky sometimes, but it’ll get done.
Silly question but when you change your stud to a hoop are you suppose to move the hoop or leave it in place, I move it constantly (twisting it) and i feel like it never heals and hurts so bad. 😭 thanks I’m advance.
@@yasburr you are only supposed to move it when putting it in. Your nose is not healing because you are constantly moving it when it needs to be left alone
I’ve had mine three years and literally just changed the original ring a week ago. I have long nails so just to get it out without forceps I had to wear textured gloves 😂, but I definitely need forceps because I would love to try a hoop but I can never find the hole. I keep looking inside to memorize the exact area.
I got mine pierced 2 weeks Ago. And I've accidentally pulled it in my sleep, and while washing my face. I cannot wait to change it to a hoop because this stud is a pain in the butt and the healing process hurts 😭😭🤣
It turned out fantastic! I have a stud in and though it's nice and small, I'd like a snug nose ring now. I really relate to wanting the minimal look too 💕
Love it!!! That's the kinda nose ring I like! Small & snug to the nose. My daughter got hers pierced a few months ago & pulled it out in her sleep lol she got up and put it back in but instead of putting the stud back in she put a hoop in & it took about 30 min to get it in lol like you we had to end up pulling it apart to get it in bc it just wasn't working the other way.
I got mine pierced a year ago this month. Annie, my piecer, told me I needed to wait for healing. I love the minimal look. I also like vintage. Shalom, Shalom!
Super cute. I only got mine pierced 2 days ago so I’ve got a long ways to go (I plan on waiting for it to heal completely before hooping it, knowing myself with piercings.) I think I’ll start with a slightly larger hoop just to make sure it goes in smoothly and then slowly transition to the tiny one I’ll looking for.
@@RhyleePlayzGamez I was able to change mine out after only 1 month and 5 days back in July 2021 and I was perfectly fine. My nose was ready after only 1 month.
@@lovelydolltime8006 ig different people have different healing times cause mines been a month and half and it doesnt hurf anymore even when it gets caught on my clothes so i was cobdused if i really have to wait 6 montgd
Thank you for showing the struggle and the reality. I am less nervous that when I eventually change my stud out for a hoop that this may happen with the irritation and bleeding. You look great!
I have so many issues doing it on my own but I just changed mine out for a new color and it couldn't have talen me more than a minute and I am so proud of myself lol
I got my nose pierced 2 months ago and just changed it to a hoop today. The worst pain was taking it out and it didn’t even hurt that bad! I stretched the hoop out and guided it in then took it out and put it back to its normal shape and went right in. Wasn’t as bad as I thought. It all depends on the person though!
Hi! Did you experience any irritation bumps after the swap? I've had my piercing for almost 3 months now and I want to do the swap as well but I'm super scared of bumps
Looks gorgeous! I ordered a 24g hoop but it had to be 9mm because I have long nostrils. Hope it looks great. I'm like you. I like minimalistic nose jewelry
I went to a piercer because I couldn’t get mine in. She said I had the wrong size hoop. Try a larger hoop. I got mine in today finally after ordering one 1 mm bigger.
this is crazy literally going through a spiritual struggle right now and to distract myself im on here looking for ways to change my nose piercing and your video is what popped up!.
im so glad i saw this, i got my nose pierced about 3 months ago and im supposed to wait 6 to change it to a hoop. in school it got stuck on something and flew out and i freaked out because i thought it was going to close up. my gran pieced it with an ear piecer and that wasn't the brightest idea
@@patie4305 The higher the number, the smaller/thinner the jewelry. 20g is like your standard earring post. Body jewelry is typically 16g which is thicker.
Was your stud the L shape or the screw shape? Because mine is the screw shape and I had so much trouble trying to take it out. I haven’t been able to do it!
Mine is the screw shape and I wish I had that problem! Mine won’t stop falling out! It should literally pull out. Only reason I want to swap to a ring so it won’t stop falling out and loosing it. I do prefer the stud over ring.
Totally cool I just got mine yesterday,, & I woke up this morning & rub my nose & forgot about my new stud , oops 😬 I was about to freak out if I would've ripped it out ,, but all good 👍🏻 I am happy with it , but must keep it in for at least three months than I will get a little ring,
I got mine 2 days ago and i keep knocking it and it's really painful i can't even yourn with out it hurting i want to change it to a hoop but I'm really scared to since when i got my ears done a year ago my mum had to rip the studs off and she literally sliced my ears open so I'm terffied to change my nose one into a hoop 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
I prefer the hoop to the stud. I think I'm gonna go ahead and get my nose pierced now. I already got my nips pierced, belly button, and my tongue once. But my tat will probably be with me even in my afterlife
I have a job interview tomorrow, and I haven’t been praying…. I’m scared I really want this job, could you please pray for me. For God’s favor. Thank you so much.
I went in to change mine from a stud to a hoop that closes but the piercer told me to come back if i couldn’t get it in (but it’s an hour away from my house lol) i want to change it to the smaller extra one i bought but if i can’t get it back in, I’m screwed 😭😭😭😭
The same thing just happened to me about 2 days ago! I changed the nose stud for a ring just as small as yours and I couldn't pass it because it was so small and rounded, I also did a little damage but here I am healing again :(
Is yours yellow gold or white gold? I clicked on the Etsy link but it says gold or rose gold and then sterling silver. Loved this video, thanks for sharing! Did your 8 mm work better?
Can anybody help me out with the nose ring clickers? I can never seem to get it in. I tried today but no luck. I even tried an earring and tried threading it through the inside of my nose. They’re a pain
Yes it’s hard . But I didn’t use a seamless ring this time round, so not sure it’s any easier going from a stud to ring It’s all to do with the angle and put lights on , try to look in nostril as you’re gently pressing. The ring does sit lower in the hole than for a stud. So you may expect it to come out straight bang in middle of piercing hole, it doesn’t. It curves and pops out lower down , if that makes sense? I noticed because on tbe inside of the nostril the skin goes lighter as the jewellery is coming through. As long as there is no pain but a slight uncomfortable feeling continue , and it will go through. If inside the nostril it doesn’t look lighter as you are pressing. Then keeping the tip of the hoop in, try wiggling and repositioning slightly to a different angle in the piercing channel. Then gently press Again, and see how it looks on the inside of the hole. 1st two times it was easy went in first time, right after a hot shower. But 3rd time with smaller 6mm clicker, it’s less metal I just couldn’t. I gave up thought I would try with a cheap titanium horseshoe. So I used a 6mm horseshoe and sure enough it went in easy peasey first time . I left it in place for 2 weeks. Then I tried the full hoop clicker went in this time! I used water based lubricant, and I had my salt water to hand as well. Keep the jewellery wet , and piercing hole, it helps! You can also try with a taper, it didn’t help me with the ring, but could help you. They’re excellent for threadless and threaded studs though. Good luck
My first nose piercing, my piercer said i HAD to start with a stud. My second piercer gave me the option of starting with a hoop or a stud. It all depends on the piercer honestly.
@@ashleycrochet4636 sure but any piercer worth their salt wouldn't start you with a hoop, I wouldnt take that option or trust the piercer, the hoop moves around easily irritating the piercing hole whereas the stud mostly just sits in place until it's healed. The constant irritation might slow the healing process and cause bumps
@@Alex-vy2qwI just got mine done yesterday and you’re right! I saw him pull out a stud and told him “Oh , I wanted a hoop” and he said exact same thing. He told me to wait 4 weeks and then I can come back to him for a hoop since it’s my first piercing and Ik nothing about them.
@@Salazuki Omg nooo 4 weeks is not enough!! You need to wait at least 3 months, maybe more. For example i've had mine for 3 months and tried to switch to a hoop. I got a bump immediately on an otherwise fine looking piercing but i caught it in time and switched back to my stud and it calmed down immediately... cartilage is very pretentious
That was exactly my fear … the hoopie but bending before it was through the other side !! 😏. I’m dreading doing this …I’m impatient and that’s not helpful 🤣
Claire’s sells them titanium steel I got a 3 pack silver, rose gold, and black all titanium steel it was $18.99 she said in the video she got it from Etsy
Being that you were removing it and having to pull it out the front from the back or the inside your nose wouldn't u want to clean the inside site b4 hand so that u aren't pulling bacteria into the piercing from inside your nose being that that is where the majority of the bacteria lives? Also I thought u were making a video to show how to change it but u did the entire change off cam so there really was no point in making this.
@@smurfey1970 you can go back to your piercer yes but you can change it to yourself but you need to do it correctly. Wait for your piercer to give you the all clear.
piercer here. a lot of times the hoop is 18ga and the nose stud is 20ga, so the ring actually ends up needing forced a little bit, but it goes through with some force and minimal pain, but there is a touch of pain usually if it’s pretty fresh still (2 months) but even at 2 years you have to push it with decent force to get it in.
tips: jump ring opener tool. looks like a ring with slits in it. $3 at craft store (hobby lobby, michaels). use some vaseline on the ring to help it slide/minimize trauma. harbor freight has $3 little clamps to hold ring for more control if you want, they’re just like the dermal forceps we have at work basically. sometimes just holding a tiny ring is the hard part lol. and just also be patient and don’t try to do it too early and end up with a bloody nose and an even longer healing time. jewelry change fee is $5 cash at my shop, it’s worth it to bring your ring in and just have someone do it for you. i change prob 5 studs to hoops a day at work on average. even i have trouble with some noses, it can just be tricky sometimes, but it’ll get done.
Silly question but when you change your stud to a hoop are you suppose to move the hoop or leave it in place, I move it constantly (twisting it) and i feel like it never heals and hurts so bad. 😭 thanks I’m advance.
Do we need to take out own hoop if we want to go to a shop? Or do they have it there?
@@yasburr you are only supposed to move it when putting it in. Your nose is not healing because you are constantly moving it when it needs to be left alone
Thank you for this comment !!
I’ve had mine three years and literally just changed the original ring a week ago. I have long nails so just to get it out without forceps I had to wear textured gloves 😂, but I definitely need forceps because I would love to try a hoop but I can never find the hole. I keep looking inside to memorize the exact area.
I'm amazed about the prayer request. I had come here about my ring but I'll be so grateful to receive a prayer from you. Your a star.
I got mine pierced 2 weeks Ago. And I've accidentally pulled it in my sleep, and while washing my face. I cannot wait to change it to a hoop because this stud is a pain in the butt and the healing process hurts 😭😭🤣
Oh man ouch!! Sorry girl. Hang in there!!
This was killer
Samee bro
It takes about a year a little more for the nose to fully heal. The stud is the best option instead of the hoop.
omg i was playing with my dog and it got stuck in his collar i was cryingg .
It turned out fantastic! I have a stud in and though it's nice and small, I'd like a snug nose ring now. I really relate to wanting the minimal look too 💕
Love it!!!
That's the kinda nose ring I like! Small & snug to the nose. My daughter got hers pierced a few months ago & pulled it out in her sleep lol she got up and put it back in but instead of putting the stud back in she put a hoop in & it took about 30 min to get it in lol like you we had to end up pulling it apart to get it in bc it just wasn't working the other way.
I got mine pierced a year ago this month. Annie, my piecer, told me I needed to wait for healing. I love the minimal look. I also like vintage.
Shalom, Shalom!
Super cute. I only got mine pierced 2 days ago so I’ve got a long ways to go (I plan on waiting for it to heal completely before hooping it, knowing myself with piercings.) I think I’ll start with a slightly larger hoop just to make sure it goes in smoothly and then slowly transition to the tiny one I’ll looking for.
Wait at least 6 months to change jewellery
@@bananahammock3116 it depends what jewellery u have, nose studs can be changed after 3 and a half months
@@RhyleePlayzGamez I was able to change mine out after only 1 month and 5 days back in July 2021 and I was perfectly fine. My nose was ready after only 1 month.
@@lovelydolltime8006 ig different people have different healing times cause mines been a month and half and it doesnt hurf anymore even when it gets caught on my clothes so i was cobdused if i really have to wait 6 montgd
Thank you for showing the struggle and the reality. I am less nervous that when I eventually change my stud out for a hoop that this may happen with the irritation and bleeding. You look great!
I have so many issues doing it on my own but I just changed mine out for a new color and it couldn't have talen me more than a minute and I am so proud of myself lol
Just got my nose pierced with a very subtle stud and i love it so much I’m obsessed. Parents flipped out. Pray for me 😂
I got my nose pierced 2 months ago and just changed it to a hoop today. The worst pain was taking it out and it didn’t even hurt that bad! I stretched the hoop out and guided it in then took it out and put it back to its normal shape and went right in. Wasn’t as bad as I thought. It all depends on the person though!
Hi! Did you experience any irritation bumps after the swap? I've had my piercing for almost 3 months now and I want to do the swap as well but I'm super scared of bumps
Looks gorgeous! I ordered a 24g hoop but it had to be 9mm because I have long nostrils. Hope it looks great. I'm like you. I like minimalistic nose jewelry
It’s so cute!! I also stretched my hoop bc it wouldn’t go in (it still won’t) 🥺it looks great on you girl 🤗
Thanks so much
I went to a piercer because I couldn’t get mine in. She said I had the wrong size hoop. Try a larger hoop. I got mine in today finally after ordering one 1 mm bigger.
I need prayer 🙏🏼
this is crazy literally going through a spiritual struggle right now and to distract myself im on here looking for ways to change my nose piercing and your video is what popped up!.
I have an 18 gauge nose hoop that I changed out myself with no problems. But mine is a bigger circle too.
I had brain surgery 10 weeks ago. having lots of vertigo, tingling and feeling of passing out. Please pray for my complete healing!!!!!!
I will Amber! Do you follow Jesus?
@@SimpleFaithbyAnnie yes
Wait, so this is a 9-minute video, and you don't even see the process of putting the hoop in?
im so glad i saw this, i got my nose pierced about 3 months ago and im supposed to wait 6 to change it to a hoop. in school it got stuck on something and flew out and i freaked out because i thought it was going to close up. my gran pieced it with an ear piecer and that wasn't the brightest idea
24g is crazy to me! Mine got pierced two months ago and they used an 18g. I’m about to change it to a 16g to match the other side.
I was pierced at a 16g in June 2021 and downsized it to a 20g after a month in July 2021.
Sorry weird question, but what’s the difference in sizes? My piercer used a 18g
@@patie4305 The higher the number, the smaller/thinner the jewelry. 20g is like your standard earring post. Body jewelry is typically 16g which is thicker.
I got my noise pierced when I was 15 and I’m 34 now still with it never closed on me because I would pieced it here and there
Was your stud the L shape or the screw shape? Because mine is the screw shape and I had so much trouble trying to take it out. I haven’t been able to do it!
Mine is the screw shape and I wish I had that problem! Mine won’t stop falling out! It should literally pull out. Only reason I want to swap to a ring so it won’t stop falling out and loosing it. I do prefer the stud over ring.
What size jewellery is this? I wear a 20 gauge but feel like it’s still too thick
I tried to change mine at home it took hours and it still didn’t work so I had to go and get it repearsed
Thanks for this. My stud has been in for 10 months. I’m going to try to change it myself
How’d it go?? I wanna try to change mine soon but I’m nervous!!
@@beaglebutter did u end up doing it?😭
@@doctorphill3262 lol no!! Still have my stud 🥲 I’m probably gonna go to a piercing shop to have it done because sizing is confusing!
Totally cool I just got mine yesterday,, & I woke up this morning & rub my nose & forgot about my new stud , oops 😬 I was about to freak out if I would've ripped it out ,, but all good 👍🏻 I am happy with it , but must keep it in for at least three months than I will get a little ring,
I got mine 2 days ago and i keep knocking it and it's really painful i can't even yourn with out it hurting i want to change it to a hoop but I'm really scared to since when i got my ears done a year ago my mum had to rip the studs off and she literally sliced my ears open so I'm terffied to change my nose one into a hoop 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
You are so bubbly ☺️ it looks so cute on you! About how long do you recommend waiting before changing it out for the first time?
3-6 months at least 👍🏼
You definitely changed your piercing way too early, a healed piercing shouldn’t bleed if you put a hoop in
i’m literally here half asleep because i accidentally yanked my placement stud out of my nose in my sleep and i woke up in a panic to change it 😭
i changed mine 2 days ago and it’s been really irritated and i’m like scared because idk what i should do 😅😭
It’s too small. You needed a bigger size
I have had my nose pierced 20 years. I still have difficulty getting a ring in.
I prefer the hoop to the stud. I think I'm gonna go ahead and get my nose pierced now. I already got my nips pierced, belly button, and my tongue once. But my tat will probably be with me even in my afterlife
Hi I wanted to ask if this piercing does not fall out when it got twisted by accident? Or do you have to close it all the way to avoid that?
How long did you wait until you changed it out? Mine is 4 months old
How did you get it to close because I couldn’t get mine to close all the way with my fingers
can you put the link where r u buy the hoop ring please
I have a job interview tomorrow, and I haven’t been praying…. I’m scared I really want this job, could you please pray for me. For God’s favor. Thank you so much.
I went in to change mine from a stud to a hoop that closes but the piercer told me to come back if i couldn’t get it in (but it’s an hour away from my house lol) i want to change it to the smaller extra one i bought but if i can’t get it back in, I’m screwed 😭😭😭😭
Just want to ask What is the better place for piercings in nose Left or Right
Whichever you prefer!
A year later… but get it on the side you don’t sleep on. (Same for ear cartilage piercing, if you can help it.)
Im so confused the girl that put mine in has put like a sharp bar on the inside how on earth am i supposed to have it removed?
That's really cute 😍, I got mine end of high school, so that was a long time ago, 😊
thank you do this vid i literally didn’t know how to take out my stud i was stressing 😭
Glad to help!
How long does it takes to heal before changein to another thank u
3-6 months I think
The same thing just happened to me about 2 days ago! I changed the nose stud for a ring just as small as yours and I couldn't pass it because it was so small and rounded, I also did a little damage but here I am healing again :(
How long dd u have the piercing before changing?
I pierced my.nose a week.ago can i change it nose hoop
Is yours yellow gold or white gold? I clicked on the Etsy link but it says gold or rose gold and then sterling silver. Loved this video, thanks for sharing! Did your 8 mm work better?
Thank you! Please pray, Free Free Palistine! 🇵🇸
Can anybody help me out with the nose ring clickers? I can never seem to get it in. I tried today but no luck. I even tried an earring and tried threading it through the inside of my nose. They’re a pain
Yes it’s hard . But I didn’t use a seamless ring this time round, so not sure it’s any easier going from a stud to ring
It’s all to do with the angle and put lights on , try to look in nostril as you’re gently pressing.
The ring does sit lower in the hole than for a stud. So you may expect it to come out straight bang in middle of piercing hole, it doesn’t. It curves and pops out lower down , if that makes sense?
I noticed because on tbe inside of the nostril the skin goes lighter as the jewellery is coming through. As long as there is no pain but a slight uncomfortable feeling continue , and it will go through.
If inside the nostril it doesn’t look lighter as you are pressing. Then keeping the tip of the hoop in, try wiggling and repositioning slightly to a different angle in the piercing channel. Then gently press
Again, and see how it looks on the inside of the hole.
1st two times it was easy went in first time, right after a hot shower. But 3rd time with smaller 6mm clicker, it’s less metal I just couldn’t.
I gave up thought I would try with a cheap titanium horseshoe. So I used a 6mm horseshoe and sure enough it went in easy peasey first time .
I left it in place for 2 weeks. Then I tried the full hoop clicker went in this time!
I used water based lubricant, and I had my salt water to hand as well. Keep the jewellery wet , and piercing hole, it helps!
You can also try with a taper, it didn’t help me with the ring, but could help you. They’re excellent for threadless and threaded studs though.
Good luck
I want a nose piercing too but i was wondering if i also can let a hoop pierce at first or do i have to start with a ''normal'' piercing?
You have to start with the stud. The piercer won't offer you a hoop.
My first nose piercing, my piercer said i HAD to start with a stud. My second piercer gave me the option of starting with a hoop or a stud. It all depends on the piercer honestly.
@@ashleycrochet4636 sure but any piercer worth their salt wouldn't start you with a hoop, I wouldnt take that option or trust the piercer, the hoop moves around easily irritating the piercing hole whereas the stud mostly just sits in place until it's healed. The constant irritation might slow the healing process and cause bumps
@@Alex-vy2qwI just got mine done yesterday and you’re right! I saw him pull out a stud and told him “Oh , I wanted a hoop” and he said exact same thing. He told me to wait 4 weeks and then I can come back to him for a hoop since it’s my first piercing and Ik nothing about them.
@@Salazuki Omg nooo 4 weeks is not enough!! You need to wait at least 3 months, maybe more. For example i've had mine for 3 months and tried to switch to a hoop. I got a bump immediately on an otherwise fine looking piercing but i caught it in time and switched back to my stud and it calmed down immediately... cartilage is very pretentious
I wanted to see the process of you wearing it
I was hoping you would show the process
I had too do the same thing with the nose hoop👍🏼
Great job 👏🏾 ❤
I just got pierced today, after how many days i can change my nose ring?
3-4 months at least
Thanks for this video beautiful, now I can swap my stud to a hoop !
Y u go to a smaller gauge for when the noes piercing is 18g🤔
Watching this cause my hoop won’t go through 😢, I should have gone to my piercer🥺😂😂😂
i love ur smile sm
You’re so pretty! 🥰❤️
That was exactly my fear … the hoopie but bending before it was through the other side !! 😏. I’m dreading doing this …I’m impatient and that’s not helpful 🤣
Can i be taking the hoop out to clean it or just leave it forever and be cleaning it around my nose??
Why didn't you show us how you put it
Hey, how long did you wait to change your nose stud and then to change it to the hoop
Me personally? I waited 8 weeks, however it’s best to ask your piercer or wait until you’re ready to take it out
Hi,
when you got your nose pierced was this the original stud you got ?
Yes it was!
How long befor u changed it after getting pierced
4 months
Side note you are so pretty 😍
You got the wrong gauge. Too small. You needed a 20 g
Hi, can you post link of where you got the nose ring?
Ammoniteswirls on Etsy
Same thing happened to me 😢😢
Eu queria ver como você punha a argola do nariz !
Looks too tight on the nose
So beautiful 👌
Nice one video 👍👍👍👍👍👍
where do u buy it ?
Claire’s sells them titanium steel I got a 3 pack silver, rose gold, and black all titanium steel it was $18.99 she said in the video she got it from Etsy
You have mentioned about the mm... Is that the diameter?
Yes!!
you are adorable...can you stick the etsy link to the nose hoop :)
Is it 6mm or 8mm hoop?
6mm
You look like Shakira😍😍
I only let my peircer change mine
Good idea! 🙈
You have to wait six months and then you can take it out
Thanks for the video I am going to try and d😢this also
It hurts like hell to take out the stud😫
you have very nice teeth
Being that you were removing it and having to pull it out the front from the back or the inside your nose wouldn't u want to clean the inside site b4 hand so that u aren't pulling bacteria into the piercing from inside your nose being that that is where the majority of the bacteria lives? Also I thought u were making a video to show how to change it but u did the entire change off cam so there really was no point in making this.
Your nose is so beautiful ma'am... you have cute nose...you know... I think it's best nose in the world.. It's God's gift to you..
I like how you didn’t even show putting the ring in 🤦🏻♀️
Your nose was not ready to be changed you wait at least 6 months before a change. Your nose looks red raw and and also that ring does not fit either.
I agree! 🥺🥺🥺
@@SimpleFaithbyAnnie extremely dangerous if changed too soon! Can cause long term scar damage and literally destroy the actual nose piercing itself x
I just got mine pierced on December the 11 for my 51st Birthday. I sure will go back to my piercer to change mine.
@@smurfey1970 you can go back to your piercer yes but you can change it to yourself but you need to do it correctly. Wait for your piercer to give you the all clear.
@@staceytaylor8194 it’s been a year for me. But it’s kinda hard to get out or maybe I’m just scared to take it out lol
So that would be much better to visit your piercer .. instead of abusing your nose..
Septum piercing
No help
You are so beautiful ma'am....
Too much talking, don’t need the backstory