Thank you for sharing this experience, it's the kind of thing that you learn from a good mentor, the "things I wish I had known about before encountering it" kind of thing - A different, but equally important type of medical education
This made me reflect of what I’ve done to one of the on call drs when he asked me what to do and said to him “just look for signs of life and document”. How insensitive of me without realising it could be his first time and how he felt. I helped him but inside me I asked how come you don’t know- and this explain. Thank you, I’ll be more of thought in the future.
Hi Ollie I’m a HCA in the community but spent 15 years as a HCA in Hospitals. Sounds like you did a great job for your first time, I have seen many F1s who have been nervous and needed their hands holding through the process. I too always talk to the patient as I’m taking care of them after death, it makes it much more personal for myself and the family, again having spent so long working in hospitals I always follow the tradition of opening a window to allow the soul to leave. I think all these little things make it a less scarier experience for the family and hopefully show how much we care and respect their deceased loves ones. One thing I remember from my hospital days is escorting a deceased patient to “Rose Cottage” and another patient on the ward asking if she could come as it sounded so nice 😊. I didn’t tell her!
I always spoke to the patient like they were still with us too. Respect always. If people only knew about Rose Cottage then there wouldn't be so many houses called it 😉 bless you from a fellow HCA x
Thank you for you insights, Ollie. They are very valuable for me and surely not only me :) Watching your videos motivates me to achieve my dream of getting into med school (and progressing further if I do). I wish you all the best!!
Hi, Ollie. Thank you for sharing your experience. I worked as an ICU nurse for many years. In ICU we do have fairly high number of patients death rate. Usually after patient had been certified dead by the Dr and family had came and said their goodbyes. Our nurses have the responsibility to clean the patient prior sending to mortuary. We also speak to patients whilst giving personal care. It's 100% natural and I feel it's more respectful to the patient. Your video content has been very helpful. I am thinking about applying Warwick graduate entry medicine. At the moment I'm trying to get my head around UCAT exams first.
Very nicely put, just never be frightened to ask for help, which I am sure you know by now. it’s also a confidence thing. But lovely done. I am not a medical person just enjoy your insight. Thank you
Thank you so much for sharing this, I am a second year medical student at the moment and it's situations like this that do scare me about the future, hearing other's perspectives is so valuable, thank you!
Thanks for sharing your experience Ollie, very emotive and informative account. The first death the I confirmed on the road as a student paramedic I found myself in a similar position and would have loved to have had geeky medics on hand. The patients oxygen machine had a not been turned off and like you said about sounds being amplified, it sounded like consistent respiratory effort just the machine noises. Will use geeky medics' proforma from now on as its concise and easy to perform! Thanks for sharing & stay safe
It's so daunting doing day to day jobs as an F1 that they don't really teach you in medical school.. true appreciate you sharing your experiences....makes me feel better prepared and less anxious. Could you please share more details on how we should prepare for F1?
I genuinely don't really think you can - make the most of any clerkship/assistantship your medical school offers, as usually that's a chance to shadow an FY1 doing their job for a week or two. It was very helpful, but the stress of having to sort it yourself (and being responsible) is the catalyst that really makes you learn. Just remember that there's a team of you around, it's not just you!
Is it true - in the UK at least - that 2 doctors' confirmation are required before a death certificate is finally issued by the Registry of Births, Deaths & Marriages?
I believe so because of the world's most prolific serial killer being Harold Shipman whom was a doctor for years and used his job as a doctor To cover up his murders
Thanks Emma! I think I definitely should have asked the HCA if she wanted to come in with me - that's the major thing I regret and would do next time, is ask if anyone on the team would like to be there for that part of the process.
I'm a serving police officer in the UK, we are often called to investigate unexpected sudden deaths that occur outside of hospitals where a doctor is not present, I've done this countless times in my career thus far probably coming into contact with in the region of perhaps 20-25 deceased persons. Part of our job is to remove the clothes (with as much dignity and respect as possible) from the deceased and ensure there are no obvious injuries or puncture wounds which could give suspicion that the death is not "natural" and is "suspicious". Part of this also includes performing a "Body roll" whereby between yourself and your colleague, you roll the body to one side and lift up their shirt to check their back, again checking for any injuries, checking along the sides of them and round the back of the head ensuring there are no cuts or bleeding from the head. The first time I ever did it, I didn't realise just how unnatural the body looks, it looks completely discoloured and of course they are usually cold to the touch, and the limbs have gone stiff as rigor mortis has set in and prevents them from being easily moved, the body seems to look almost wax work like, grey and completely off colour, as if it wasn't a real person to begin with. I've done numerous ones since the first one which was 5 years ago now, and the most depressing was a hanging, whereby we were first on scene and cut him down, I recall that one distinctly as it was my birthday and it had been raining hard all night, and the poor chap's body was soaking wet, yet the skin level search still had to be performed. I recall members of the public walking past (he hung himself in a park) seeing numerous officers crowded around something on the floor covered over with a foil blanket, and realising it was a deceased person, before stating to myself and my colleagues "that's terrible". The worst one by far was a bloke in his mid 30's, he was a regular cocaine user and had a weak heart, he was on more medication than I've ever seen before and had to be taken daily, he died during the night and had vomitted black fluid everywhere which I assumed was bile of some sort, it smelt awful and it was everywhere. He passed away on his bedroom floor with his head resting just inside the confines of the en-suite bathroom, I recall as I lifted his head and tilted it to one side with a colleague to check for any signs of foul play, I heard a trickling sound and I watched blood run down from inside his ear and trickle along his ear canal and onto the floor. It wasn't particularly gruesome but it was the sound of it, which sounded like a water fountain trickling, and seeing it at the time that made me feel a bit off. In situations that we attend we are almost always called by paramedics, who have already certified the death and left us a VFD (Verification of Facts of Death), thought I do recall one incident about 3 and a half years ago that some colleagues went to with a 7 year old female in cardiac arrest, officers arrived very quickly and were joined by paramedics shortly after, however despite their best efforts unfortunately she passed. I can't say I envy your role but I've been in similar situations (albeit someone else has certified the death) and I understand what it's like to be there.
@@OllieBurtonMed Believe me, all of us in blue appreciate what you guys do too, especially those in green and the nurses and doctors who work in hospitals, under enormous pressure for typically less pay than us. I frequently hear "LAS have no one to send, they are stacking 400 calls" and wonder what it must really be like knowing that hundreds of people are waiting.
not a doctor but a lab tech. although we dont directly confirm the death of a patient, but we do get calls whereby we run the sample and get a critical result only to hear that its no longer relevant anymore because the patient has just passed on... which really sucks bc we know that these tests are only going to be added on to the already massive bill and the hospital doesnt care at all and all we can do is just move on and continue with the next sample. :( thankfully you got the opportunity to end your shift and take a breather before getting on with your next shift if not the thought really lingers in your head for quite a bit and may affect the way that you subsequently deal with the next set of patients.
I'm really sorry to hear that - had genuinely not even considered how it might affect staff not on shop floor. Will be more mindful to cancel any outstanding tests!
@@OllieBurtonMed honestly its not the fault of the doctor or any health care staff for that matter, we all put in so much effort trying to prolong the prognosis of the patient. my gripe is with the management and how at the core of it all, the hospital isnt a place that saves lives, it is ultimately just a place where the person with the fattest pocket wins.
Thank you for sharing this experience, it's the kind of thing that you learn from a good mentor, the "things I wish I had known about before encountering it" kind of thing - A different, but equally important type of medical education
This made me reflect of what I’ve done to one of the on call drs when he asked me what to do and said to him “just look for signs of life and document”. How insensitive of me without realising it could be his first time and how he felt. I helped him but inside me I asked how come you don’t know- and this explain. Thank you, I’ll be more of thought in the future.
Always open the window to let the soul out. Well done Dr for your professionalism, you're going to go far 🙂
Hi Ollie I’m a HCA in the community but spent 15 years as a HCA in Hospitals. Sounds like you did a great job for your first time, I have seen many F1s who have been nervous and needed their hands holding through the process. I too always talk to the patient as I’m taking care of them after death, it makes it much more personal for myself and the family, again having spent so long working in hospitals I always follow the tradition of opening a window to allow the soul to leave. I think all these little things make it a less scarier experience for the family and hopefully show how much we care and respect their deceased loves ones. One thing I remember from my hospital days is escorting a deceased patient to “Rose Cottage” and another patient on the ward asking if she could come as it sounded so nice 😊. I didn’t tell her!
I always spoke to the patient like they were still with us too. Respect always. If people only knew about Rose Cottage then there wouldn't be so many houses called it 😉 bless you from a fellow HCA x
Thank you for you insights, Ollie. They are very valuable for me and surely not only me :) Watching your videos motivates me to achieve my dream of getting into med school (and progressing further if I do). I wish you all the best!!
Hi, Ollie. Thank you for sharing your experience. I worked as an ICU nurse for many years. In ICU we do have fairly high number of patients death rate. Usually after patient had been certified dead by the Dr and family had came and said their goodbyes. Our nurses have the responsibility to clean the patient prior sending to mortuary. We also speak to patients whilst giving personal care. It's 100% natural and I feel it's more respectful to the patient. Your video content has been very helpful. I am thinking about applying Warwick graduate entry medicine. At the moment I'm trying to get my head around UCAT exams first.
Very nicely put, just never be frightened to ask for help, which I am sure you know by now. it’s also a confidence thing. But lovely done. I am not a medical person just enjoy your insight. Thank you
Thank you so much for sharing this, I am a second year medical student at the moment and it's situations like this that do scare me about the future, hearing other's perspectives is so valuable, thank you!
Very welcome Jordan!
I attended one death confirmation during placement. Really hit hard how fleeting life actually is.
Thanks for sharing your experience Ollie, very emotive and informative account. The first death the I confirmed on the road as a student paramedic I found myself in a similar position and would have loved to have had geeky medics on hand. The patients oxygen machine had a not been turned off and like you said about sounds being amplified, it sounded like consistent respiratory effort just the machine noises.
Will use geeky medics' proforma from now on as its concise and easy to perform!
Thanks for sharing & stay safe
Valuable video, thanks for posting it. You’re doing brilliant 🌟
thank you for sharing your experience
It's so daunting doing day to day jobs as an F1 that they don't really teach you in medical school.. true appreciate you sharing your experiences....makes me feel better prepared and less anxious.
Could you please share more details on how we should prepare for F1?
I genuinely don't really think you can - make the most of any clerkship/assistantship your medical school offers, as usually that's a chance to shadow an FY1 doing their job for a week or two. It was very helpful, but the stress of having to sort it yourself (and being responsible) is the catalyst that really makes you learn. Just remember that there's a team of you around, it's not just you!
Is it true - in the UK at least - that 2 doctors' confirmation are required before a death certificate is finally issued by the Registry of Births, Deaths & Marriages?
I believe so because of the world's most prolific serial killer being Harold Shipman whom was a doctor for years and used his job as a doctor To cover up his murders
Thank you very much for sharing!
Thank you for sharing Ollie. Is there anything you would do differently next time?
Thanks Emma! I think I definitely should have asked the HCA if she wanted to come in with me - that's the major thing I regret and would do next time, is ask if anyone on the team would like to be there for that part of the process.
I'm a serving police officer in the UK, we are often called to investigate unexpected sudden deaths that occur outside of hospitals where a doctor is not present, I've done this countless times in my career thus far probably coming into contact with in the region of perhaps 20-25 deceased persons.
Part of our job is to remove the clothes (with as much dignity and respect as possible) from the deceased and ensure there are no obvious injuries or puncture wounds which could give suspicion that the death is not "natural" and is "suspicious".
Part of this also includes performing a "Body roll" whereby between yourself and your colleague, you roll the body to one side and lift up their shirt to check their back, again checking for any injuries, checking along the sides of them and round the back of the head ensuring there are no cuts or bleeding from the head.
The first time I ever did it, I didn't realise just how unnatural the body looks, it looks completely discoloured and of course they are usually cold to the touch, and the limbs have gone stiff as rigor mortis has set in and prevents them from being easily moved, the body seems to look almost wax work like, grey and completely off colour, as if it wasn't a real person to begin with.
I've done numerous ones since the first one which was 5 years ago now, and the most depressing was a hanging, whereby we were first on scene and cut him down, I recall that one distinctly as it was my birthday and it had been raining hard all night, and the poor chap's body was soaking wet, yet the skin level search still had to be performed. I recall members of the public walking past (he hung himself in a park) seeing numerous officers crowded around something on the floor covered over with a foil blanket, and realising it was a deceased person, before stating to myself and my colleagues "that's terrible".
The worst one by far was a bloke in his mid 30's, he was a regular cocaine user and had a weak heart, he was on more medication than I've ever seen before and had to be taken daily, he died during the night and had vomitted black fluid everywhere which I assumed was bile of some sort, it smelt awful and it was everywhere.
He passed away on his bedroom floor with his head resting just inside the confines of the en-suite bathroom, I recall as I lifted his head and tilted it to one side with a colleague to check for any signs of foul play, I heard a trickling sound and I watched blood run down from inside his ear and trickle along his ear canal and onto the floor. It wasn't particularly gruesome but it was the sound of it, which sounded like a water fountain trickling, and seeing it at the time that made me feel a bit off.
In situations that we attend we are almost always called by paramedics, who have already certified the death and left us a VFD (Verification of Facts of Death), thought I do recall one incident about 3 and a half years ago that some colleagues went to with a 7 year old female in cardiac arrest, officers arrived very quickly and were joined by paramedics shortly after, however despite their best efforts unfortunately she passed.
I can't say I envy your role but I've been in similar situations (albeit someone else has certified the death) and I understand what it's like to be there.
Thanks so much for your story - hugely appreciated and really good to get an opinion from a serving officer. Thanks so much for what you do.
@@OllieBurtonMed Believe me, all of us in blue appreciate what you guys do too, especially those in green and the nurses and doctors who work in hospitals, under enormous pressure for typically less pay than us.
I frequently hear "LAS have no one to send, they are stacking 400 calls" and wonder what it must really be like knowing that hundreds of people are waiting.
not a doctor but a lab tech. although we dont directly confirm the death of a patient, but we do get calls whereby we run the sample and get a critical result only to hear that its no longer relevant anymore because the patient has just passed on... which really sucks bc we know that these tests are only going to be added on to the already massive bill and the hospital doesnt care at all and all we can do is just move on and continue with the next sample. :( thankfully you got the opportunity to end your shift and take a breather before getting on with your next shift if not the thought really lingers in your head for quite a bit and may affect the way that you subsequently deal with the next set of patients.
I'm really sorry to hear that - had genuinely not even considered how it might affect staff not on shop floor. Will be more mindful to cancel any outstanding tests!
@@OllieBurtonMed honestly its not the fault of the doctor or any health care staff for that matter, we all put in so much effort trying to prolong the prognosis of the patient. my gripe is with the management and how at the core of it all, the hospital isnt a place that saves lives, it is ultimately just a place where the person with the fattest pocket wins.
@@kevjumbaz In the UK, there is no bill for the patient - all medical care is paid for by general taxation.