I have many 20 year old Hornby super detailed loco driven models. Run great, look great, couple close, and bits don’t fall off. The loco driven ones like the black 5 or 8f are still excellent.
Hi Sam, in a recent interview S. Kohler dismissed QC problems and pointed out that expressed problems we experience with new models is an insult to the designers & developers at Hornby. Seems they can't stand criticism let alone the will to do something about it ! So sad to see them shooting in their own feet. The many comments here speak for themselves. It does ring a big bell !! Thanks for sharing this interesting comparison.
Clearly they are very stubborn. Just got a new W1 and it took 3 attempts to get one without issues straight out of the box. I wonder what world they live in where they think it is acceptable to charge £200+ for something that doesnt work properly straight out the box.
I have four or five super detail 2xxxx black fives and they all run really well. An improvement to me would have been better engineering. Closer to that found in european models
@@wgj4813 I agree. Compared to EU designs Hornby is old basic. But then price-wise a EU loc cost a lot more. Ex. a DC Jouef steamloc (part of Hornby Group) cost around 320 € for a 0-8-0. But no one in the EU would except a faulty locomotive strait out of the box. Nor bits falling of. In the UK RTR means Ready To Repair. Unacceptable !!
SK is a bit of a clown & thinks a few shows on television makes him more important than the company. Now they have Mike Ashley on board, it's inevitable that the product will get worse, like the brands he ruined with Sports Direct (Dunlop, Everlast)
I think models from the mid-2000s were just good solid models in general. I first started watching model railway videos around 2010ish and so those typed models were often the ones being covered. It felt like a good period for the hobby!
The old railways one is my favourite! It’s detailed, runs better than the new one, has a good mechanism and doesn’t fall to pieces. I don’t have a black five currently, and was thinking about buying one of the new ones, but honestly I think I’d be more happy with the old one…
Hornby's latest Black 5 is a classic example of newer not been better. If enough of us refuse to buy them or return them as i have done theh they might get the message. There are plenty of the older versions to choose from, i think a lot of us will have at least a few of them from the previous releases. As prices go up and quality comes down, now is the time to find a good used sample.
Yeah that's very true - it would have been better if they were built to the necessary standard... but sadly both of the ones I tried were not! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
The new one would be better if the price was more around £160 and the quality was better… I actually thought about preordering one of the new black fives but I didn’t given Hornby’s recent track record and also because of the crazy price. I’m very glad I didn’t order one now, as I don’t have the patience to deal with models that cost of £200 that have crank pins that don’t stay in place, failing tender connections, glue marks left right and centre, torch issues and other smaller problems…
@@modelrailfan37 Absolutely! Such a shame, i do hope some employees from Hornby would follow Sams trains and learn something and improve the products, not to rip us off, we are loyal customers after all, show some respect Hornby please.
The only one I have is in LMS livery no. 5000 R2323 (National Railway Museum Collection) issued in 2003. It has a five pole skew motor, sprung buffers and cab interior. Love it.
I still run my late 80's tender driven one, its one of my sons favourites (it's Henry as far as hes concerned). Numbered 5241 I think. Still a reliable workhorse despite advancing age and old Ringfield motor.
My hornby black five was one of the earliest models brought in the early 80's and the tender pickup was totally different to the ones you've just shown on your video, it just use to clip in between the bronze contacts, no wires either.
I've bought a few of these super dobber detailed locos of hornby ect and I am now getting more older Airfix and Mainline railway locos and stock, as Parts don't come in the bottom of the box or fall off when you breathe on these new fangled models, and these older ones still stand up, I rember when Mainline first came out and their models were ' game changers ' back then, me for one won't be bothering with these new hornby ones.
I have a Mainline standard 4 purchased new in about 1986. It's very heavy, remarkably detailed for the time, and an excellent runner with brilliant pulling power. I had it converted to DCC (because it's split chassis) and it is still going strong.
I've got two high detail Black 5s. One in LMS livery and the other late BR with red banding. I bought them both second-hand on Ebay between 1-2 years ago. One cost me £90, the other is one of the few named Black 5s 'Ayrshire Yeomanry' and is part of the 'Going Home' train pack which includes, three high detail LMS coaches and cost £130. The coaches go for about £30ish individually second-hand and boxed, so the loco itself effectively cost me about £40.😀 I wouldn't mind getting the new 'Glasgow highlander' Black 5, but will probably wait until I see one at a sensible price on the secondhand market.
Hi Sam, great video as always. I have like someone else who commented the Silver Seal Black Five R859 which came with the wrong valve gear, which I subsequently converted to the correct type . Still love it and runs to this day.
I had one of the tender dirve LMS liveryed Black 5s, I must have got it during the 1980s. I must have got it as a Christmas present, and at that time they were just part of the normal Hornby range, as the Hornby Railroad range was not around back then. I did also have one of the loco drive models, but sadly sold it at a time when i was not too happy with model railways!
Yeah absolutely - it was part of the Railways range for many years - ahh pity you sold it off - but many did the same only to return later! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
The biggest problem for me with the 2004 railroad version is the equidistant driving wheels. There should be a longer gap between the rear drivers to leave room for the Belpaire firebox grate between the axles. Once you realize that, it is hard to unsee it.
I have just purchased 2nd hand the 2004 model and I was holding my breath when looking at your video of the defective new model to see whether the manufacturer's number was the same as mine because I bought it in Hattons clearance. Fortunately it isn't of course. So in my view I have dodged a bullet. The model I have is aesthetically perfect as far as that goes and appears brand new. Since most of my running is with a max of 3 coaches due to layout size. and mostly slow, I am pleased the 2004 came out on top I am a fan of detail but you can't really see much when the loco is travelling round the track, which for me is the primary purpose. All in all, very good buy --and fascinating video.
To me a model is just that, a model. It represents a prototype but, just like the real thing, has its own unique quirks, design issues and ways of running. I loved this video because it shows the different ways all manufacturers try to use the technology to ‘improve’ models we will hopefully buy. Sometimes this is a total flop and the design is sent back to the drawing board - just like happened many times at Swindon, Doncaster, Crewe, Eastleigh etc. I love your channel because you focus on the model and what I should be looking for in that model. The only improvement in your marking scheme would be a score for smell. Some of the old locomotives have a fantastic oil and ozone combi that’s just not present in today’s offerings!😊
Hi Sam... I recently purchased some Hornby 8F loco's from up to approximately twenty years ago and they were noisy! The worm-gear was removed and fitted to identical 5-pole motors from China...ten for less than the price of One from Hornby!! The magnets were weak in comparison but they pull just as well and....they are Super Quiet!!! One of the old 8F motors was taken apart and the dirt and filings inside had to be seen to be believed!! The Black 5 used the X4026....another easily obtainable type motor. I forgot to say....NO way will I buy the new Black 5...it's cheaper and more fun to use the Brassmasters kits to upgrade.
Sam, have you noticed that on your Railroad model, on the left hand side looking from the cab, the valve gear near the piston rod is the wrong way around. It should be in front of where the piston rod join is, and that side, its behind.
Thanks to your reviews & to all the comments from others, I finally found a S/H R2881 Railroad version "5112" and cost £50! Have yet to test it, but if I DO get any issues, at least the shop will give a refund. Personally, I wouldn't have been bothered in the past but if it turns out to be great, then I'll decorate it with loads of details and even add a proper crew. Make it look closer to a Superadetail version
Mine is the 2004 version, the first OO engine I had bought back in December 2018. I'm betting this model would be sold in the Railroad range sooner or later. Anyway, I took her out of storage recently for a running session with some LMS new wagons I had bought recently. Nice puller, does the job perfectly.
I have seen a railroad Black 5 advertised for £84. You are correct the original model, which is now the railroad model was first produced in the late 1970s. I bought mine (exchanged in fact) for about £20-30. I have two of the 2004 versions bought in the mid decade. The first cost me £70 and the second on e bay for about the same. You will need to buy and review the latest one, which will be the Caprotti Black 5 with a double chimney, which is different enough from the others.
Hornby is not very available here in the states, but I found your comparison interesting. I watched the 2024 Black 5 review video and agreed with you then and seem to find myself in agreement with you 100% of the time so far. Great review and video as always, Jersey Bill.
Hi Sam, thanks again for an enjoyable and informative video comparison. Here in New Zealand in 2023 I bought a couple of super-detailed Hornby Black 5's via internet auctions for the equivalent of £50-60 each. One is of 2002 vintage, the other of 2004. Both are superb runners, and feature the "copper brush" drawbar design in your Railroad version, but the chassis/motor, tender, and locomotive shell of your super-detailed version. Strangely, the original boxes do not advertise a DCC socket, but both locos had them on the chassis. Saved me two DCC conversions... 🙂 On a different note, have you considered showing the maximum speed of each locomotive during your tests? You usually seem to stick to 50% power or thereabouts. Would be fun and informative to see the locos doing 100%. Keep up the great work! Cheers from Aotearoa New Zealand...
I must admit I am delighted by your findings as I purchased an utterly spotless ‘as new’ 2004 model in BR black for 80 quid last year! 😄 I still have my ancient ‘Silver Seal’ tender drive model from about 1973 and that thing can pull seemingly anything, which is why I used to raise my eyes when people used to insist that tender drive engines are useless 🤷 I recognise the tooling on the Railroad version but I must admit, the old one still looks great despite a lack of detail 🤔 Cheers mate, have a great week 👍🍻💎
An excellent video. The comparisons were very interesting. I have a Super Detailed-era example, which is one of my favourite locos. I also have an older version, which whilst far less detailed is nevertheless very robust and still runs extremely well. I was poised to add one of the latest versions to my collection, but deferred the purchase after watching your reviews of the loco. Perhaps I'll re-consider buying one in the future if Hornby manage to rectify the various issues you identified.
Thanks for this review Simon. i have just committed to a pristine second hand refurbished 2004 model, upgraded with a Lok Sound 5 decoder. Probably worked out more expensive than a 2024 model, but, I KNOW it will sound great and be a fantastic runner. No brainer for me.
Hi Sam, another great episode. I have 2 Black Fives from 2008, the limited edition end of steam ones. They loco drive with the chip in the loco, but the old connection to the tender, but they have'nt got the massive weight in the tender. They are very good runners, & look ok, not as detailed as newer models but did'nt cost £200 each. I think thats what the pair cost!! I was contemplating getting a new one, but having watched your reviews of the new one I think I'll keep my money & stick with what i've got.
I said in my comment yesterday that I would get one of the 2024 versions and today I went to a small shop and managed to pick up the BR late crest version named The Glasgow Highlander and it is excellent, no issues to report on mine, none at all and I do mean that, I haven’t even experienced the the drawbar issue, it all seems to work perfectly, the first black 5 to be added to my collection as I have never owned any before and I certainly feel I made the right decision, very happy with my 2024 version, been trying some of hornby HM7000 TXS decoders recently so when I get some money I may look at getting it sound fitted as there is a black 5 sound profile on the app.
I have the Railways model, in BR late crest. I am very happy with the level of detail and performance and having seen various reviews there is no way I would change mine for the latest version and totally concur with your review.
I could be wrong but I think the wheel details on the new version would’ve only been applied to the first one as it would’ve had a more eye-catching livery than later engines. It was done on the coronations so I think it was to show off the prototype. It’s quite impractical on a black 5.
Good point! It is odd though that Hornby haven’t done a 2024 one in a normal LMS livery though. Considering how many black fives were built I’d think most modellers would want one that looks just like the other 500+ locos that were built, as on a LMS layout you’d probably want a standard looking black five. Come to think of it I don’t think they did a 2024 one with the early crest ether…
@@modelrailfan37 as far as I can tell, they have not. Was looking for one, as I like the early crest era, and had to settle for a very good condition used one from EBay.
I have got a few Black 5s over the years, two old versions I got in the 80s and 90s, the others are all of their 2004 style. I have found though of the super detail versions I have had issues with pulling on two as they were the updated version with decoder in the tender and fixed drawbar. I found they struggled more than the earlier with detatchable tenders, even after adding weight to the loco chassis. Due to this I have picked up the earlier versions on Ebay as I know they can handle 8 Mk1s without struggling on my layout.
I have 2 of an earlier version of the super detailed ones. I think both have loco mounted 8-pin sockets, but neither have NEM couplings and both have the same drawbar as your railroad one. The only reason I want a new release one is because they've done one of the Caprotti ones now.
Thanks, Sam. This comparative review is just what the hard-pressed collector needs to make a wise decision. I have the 2004 Glasgow Highlander; haven't run it for a long time but it always went well at the time.
Super. Someone ought to make a Black 5 with locomotive and tender drive. I bet that it would pull the wallpaper off of the wall. As an operator, I like detail, but things like chassis design sometimes takes priority over a good looking locomotive with a poorly designed drivetrain. 💙 T.E.N.
Seeing the reviews of Hornby's latest black 5, I rushed out and bought the original 1973 version (with Fleischmann style tender drive) in mint condition for £25. I was not disappointed! To be honest, I can't be trusted with the current generation UK outline steam locos (even the ones without chronic production problems) -- the valve gear breaks as soon as I look at them!
While I'm waiting for the smoke fitted version, I have been looking for the Super Detail version for a while now. I have the Duchess of Sutherland which is from 2003 and I absolutely love it. For me that's the perfect balance of good mechanism, decent detail, but not too fragile. They fill the gap between toy grade tender drive model and super expensive detailed model. But since I've seen a few people showing a fix to the tender connection of the 2024 model, I want to wait for it because steam generators sound incredibly fun. Still, should I find the 2004 version for a good price I'll buy one. I may even recommend you do this more often, a new "Buffer to Buffer" series once a month. Compare different versions of one model. I think that would certainly be interesting and useful for someone like me who's buying models from all ages, but still balancing on not overspending. Great review, Sam
Great video, interesting that I have the opposite in that my 24 version has a far better crawl than my 04 version. But my 04 does haul my rake of home built wagons (not free rolling- a great test rake) slightly better. I like them both tbh. Especially now my 24 version has had its teething problems corrected by Hornby. I do have an original 5 (the one that ended up in the Thomas range) which I’ve not run for a while.
More like this Sam! I was hoping you would include a tender drive version as well. How about a similar study of 8F, including a tender drive version and a Wrenn oldie? Would be good to see how the traction compares as well as the details/finish.
The 2000’s Black Five is the model that got me back in to model railways. It was so much better than anything else I’d seen for years. I think mine was LMS 5052? Does that sound right?
My Railroad version slips like hell on a 9 coach train whereas my 2004 models have no issue. The Railroad version is also very inaccurate in its' dimensions as it's based on 70's tooling.
I have an 80s tender drive one and a 2004 version. The 2004 version has had smoke added, DCC sound fitted with a working lamp. And looks the part to me. All that cost me less than the 2024 version. So I don't really feel the need to upgrade especially if there could be various issues to address.
Hi Sam, I was very surprised given how thought you normally are, to see you seem to have missed the two most obvious failings of the railroad version. namely its a 4 mm scale to short on the length of the loco and that horribly plastic skirt between the running plate and the boiler. For me no of cost reduction can take both these two issues into account, Which in truth make the railroad version not even a model of a black 5. your points about the new 2024 and the original 2003 super detailed are more on point. cheers Phil
Hey sam, I've got the tender driven and loco one that you showed. I love the loco driven one from the 2000s. It seems to run incredibly well. I might have to oil it soon, and it's probably the most expensive loco I've ever bought 2nd hand but pretty happy all the same ☺️
Brought up on model railways from the late 1970s onwards, I have a couple of the tender drive versions, including an original model as well as the 2004 varient. I find all run well and I can live with the lack of detail on the older ones. However, these are the kind of models I would have enjoyed doing a Crownline detailing kit on if I'd have had the models and money back then! Of course, you did miss out one of my favourite versions, the green one with a big number '3' on the tender!
Now threre's a blast from the past,the Crownline adverts in the Railway Modeller,like you,wishing i could afford one,in my case doubting i had the skills to carry out the conversion.Thanks for the memory!
Having a couple of detailed 2004 versions I saw no need to buy a new 2024 version. Just need to add the Brassmasters detailing. I have just had the Black 5 Caprotti version as that was not available before in RTR. Early days to see how reliable the coupling is and the lamps may be removed.
when I was collecting model trains in the 2000's the Black 5 from that era was really nice for the time. A massive step up in quality, detail and smooth reliable running, only let down slightly by it's pulling power but not everyone has a big enough layout for 12 coach trains. If your layout is flat it'll have no bother with 7 or 8 coaches, I had several BR ones and liked them a lot. The new one looks disappointing with unreliable features, made worse by it's ridiculous cost
Hi Sam. I have a 2016 Hornby Henry from the Thomas & Friends range. Do you know if the railroad or super-detailed 2004 was used as the basis for that model?
I'm awaiting my 3rd Hornby Black 5 LMS livery. The model was so nice looking I am giving it 1 more go. I am curious to see if the BR livery would be any different but I doubt it. The issues I had with the first 2 were wonky smoke box doors and the tender coupling being faulty
My eyes don't work good enough to appreciate the extra 'bits' on the new model ! I never knew about the diecast tender in the loco drive one, the first thing that sprung to my mind was to fit a motor in the tender as well to create a super pulling power locomotive ! I'm off to find out if my loco driven 'princess' also has a diecast tender chassis !
For the last model of the Black 5, Hornby seems to have taken the 2004 chassis with zero modifications, add a 21 pins DCC socket, revamp the details and sold it as is. At least, we have a model that can run if the tender-engine connection is not fluxed up by shoddy manufacturing...
I think you're bang on with your review. I have several of the 2004 black fives and I love them never had any problems with them. They're such good runners and are so reliable. I personally don't like the look of the new ones, especially the silver paint on the wheels. It looks so unrealistic. and the quality same so poor . Then this is the issue of the lights being massively oversized. I think they should've left these off the model . If the new one had been good, I would've probably bought several but I haven't I've only got a limited edition one from Rails/ locomotion models on pre-order and that's only because 5428 is my favourite locomotive. I'm just hoping some of the issues have been resolved by the time it comes
I have the TTS Sound Black 5 (45116) since Aug 2016 - apart from the chip/decoder frying on me twice, it’s never had any fault. Absolutely love that model.. I have recently made it DCC Ready and I’m hoping that Hornby’s new 44726 with smoke can be a good replacement
I would agree that overall the 2004 tooling is the best of the Hornby Black 5's. The Railroad version is however a great "starter" for any upcoming modeller owning one for the first time. I am glad I haven't wasted money on the 2024 version after all the problems its had. I own 3 of the 2004-tooled versions (the tooling was slightly modified later on before the 2024 version made its debut). Any detail issues with the 2004 variant were overcome by modellers who were skilled enough to make the changes and in fact did make a nice project. For these reasons I prefer the 2004 tooling.
Yeah I think overall I might agree with that - if it worked better the new one would be best without a doubt... but apples to apples the 2004 one has the most pros! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hi Sam , I have a Hornby R3805 in BR late crested black, I’m not sure if you would say that it is a black five or not , but it certainly looks like one and was released in 2019.
Interesting review Sam - thank you! I have a version of the 2004 Super Detailed Black 5 and I am extremely pleased with it. It's a good runner and looks great on my layout!
I have a Railroad Black 5, because I didn't really care about the paint detail. Converted mine into a custom Henry from TTTE. Actually, I 3d printed my own detail, inspired by your 3d printing journey. Great runner after DCC fitting and one of my favourites :) Nice video, as always!
The only new Hornby Black 5 I'll be buying is the Caprotti one available only direct from Hornby (sadly) - I'm perfectly happy with my older loco-drive ones.
I have the BR livery one R2322 from 2005. 5 pole motor with the tender pole/loco pick up arrangement. Runs beautifully still. The pic ups are separate items on the chassis block and can be fiddly to put back in after adjustment. The new black 5 looks naff and the tender/loco coupling wont be robust and seems problematic
Thanks Sam what a good comparison . I doubt Hornby has changed the gearing so the speeds all come down to the motor. Lets face it that is why Hornby added the lights, to persuade us to ditch our old models and buy the new one. Unfortunately for them, that idea sort of backfired, to me the lights just make the model look tacky.
Hi Sam A good topic I would overall agree with the result I've only got 1 of the newest Black 5's and it was fine but its not enough to decide if its better or not except for the lamps that was poorly thought out. the railroad one isn't my favourite version mine is extremely sensitive to slightly dirty track as is even if the track is clean I have to clean the wheels on the loco before it'll work properly which isn't great the other don't do that. the 2004 one I always had hit or miss issues running them in backwards a the cab doors would catch the tender causing it to derail and I've got a few of these ones and about half of them have this issue other than that they run fine. I would nearly be happy if the 2004 version became the new railroad version.
i got my dad the 2004 version before the 2024 version came out & it's able to pull 8 LMS coaches up our helix with no problems so i have no intention of buying the 2024 version
Hi sam Bought both versions of the 1984 releases LMS / BR Tender drive with the ringfield motor happy with these models cost me $ 98.00 dollars at the time in 1984 aussie $ sad thing is they are still in their boxes Got into BR diesels great video as always 😊
Well just come back from a local exhibition, bought a new in box 2004 version Black 5 for £85, less than a Railroad loco, is the new one worth over twice that?
I have a couple of the 2004 version "super detailed" Black 5s. The 2008 "The End Of Steam - Limited Edition" releases R26868A & R2686B. I had a problem with the valve gear guide separating from the piston housing in one. Poor fitting design IMV exacerbated by poor QC in this instance. Sourced a replacement part. Other than that, aesthetically great lookers sufficiently detailed for me which run well. They'll do me. I wouldn't want to be paying for a NEW one today.
I've got a couple of Super Detail Black 5s that have the "Rail Road" tender connection, maybe they were earlier examples. Nay bother, they're so much easier to manage and no dangling wires. I would not swap either of them for one of the 2024 models!
I sold my 2004 Black 5 (one of the first batch released) as it suffered from a couple of issues very typical for Hornby of that era - wobbly driving wheels, valve gear that kept catching and a very annoying squeaky tender. Maybe one day I'll buy a replacement, but certainly not for over £200!
The Black 5 model was first released in 1973. The tenders of the first ones were semi-permanently coupled to the engine. By 1976 several aspects of the model had changed, including the valve gear. Various versions of the tender drive model were produced until the late 1990s. In fact, I thought the first Railroad ones were tender drive but I think I am wrong to think this. The Railroad version was first released on 2009. The super-detailed one was first released in 2002. For the 2024, I have recently seen a TH-cam video by someone (I have forgotten who but they seemed to be sensible) who thinks he has fixed his tender connection problem by carefully bending the outer, tiny spring clips on the tender part of the connection. However, that is not something one should do on a brand new model. Hopefully Hornby will resolve such problems with the next batch. Of course, not every example of the current batch apparently suffer what your first one did but far too many have done so. Hornby claim they have not had many complaints but who knows what is really going on. I just hope Hornby do get things sorted. While Hornby do sometimes seem to ask for criticism, I would far rather they get on top of everything rather than go out of business. Please continue with the excellent, regular dose of varied videos. You really must put many hours into them. Kind regards.
Thanks a lot for sharing - yeah the tender drive/early 2000s railways version did go through some alterations. It could well have been in the railroad range before the change to loco drive - not sure about that! Thanks a lot for sharing, Thanks for watching, Sam :)
The older Super Detailed Hornby Black 5 model is superior in every single way because it has better quality and it performs better than the new 2024 version does Sam.
Hi Sam Very interesting about on Three Black 5 as best one is 2004 model! and I bought second hand few year ago on No 5055 model in non hornby box! but wonder about it which year it is? any one or you sam know it? Cheers!
Just as a thought- as on the prototype tractive power of a steam loco is a function of the locomotive weight (NOT including tender) would it not be a bit more useful to compare the weight of the locos only, THEN talk about the drag of the tender.....
I'm confused after your review. Mine is the 2002 version R2257 and has modern couplings and tender but the draw bar assembly from the railroad version. I would go with your 2004 model but the Railroad version stands the test of time, if you're watching it from three feet away.
I have 4 of the original super detail black 5's all them have railroad method tender to loco coupling, not sure when they went over to to later style as your original super detail black. I would have the original super detail over the latest version.
I have many 20 year old Hornby super detailed loco driven models. Run great, look great, couple close, and bits don’t fall off. The loco driven ones like the black 5 or 8f are still excellent.
That's right - they may be simpler - but they do what they're supposed to!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Absolutely right.
The 2004 model is the best. And I got mine at a show for just £39.99 and still runs fantastically and looks beautiful
Hi Sam, in a recent interview S. Kohler dismissed QC problems and pointed out that expressed problems we experience with new models is an insult to the designers & developers at Hornby. Seems they can't stand criticism let alone the will to do something about it ! So sad to see them shooting in their own feet. The many comments here speak for themselves. It does ring a big bell !! Thanks for sharing this interesting comparison.
Clearly they are very stubborn. Just got a new W1 and it took 3 attempts to get one without issues straight out of the box. I wonder what world they live in where they think it is acceptable to charge £200+ for something that doesnt work properly straight out the box.
Can't take Simon Kohler seriously.
That is why Hornby will never change. If you can't take constructive criticism you shouldn't be in design.
I have four or five super detail 2xxxx black fives and they all run really well. An improvement to me would have been better engineering. Closer to that found in european models
@@wgj4813 I agree. Compared to EU designs Hornby is old basic. But then price-wise a EU loc cost a lot more. Ex. a DC Jouef steamloc (part of Hornby Group) cost around 320 € for a 0-8-0. But no one in the EU would except a faulty locomotive strait out of the box. Nor bits falling of. In the UK RTR means Ready To Repair. Unacceptable !!
SImon Kholer used to say 'My customers wants detail, detail, detail'......no we dont, we want 'realibility, realibility, realibility'....
I want good enough detail.. doesn't need to be flawless under an electron microscope.. and a fair price
SK is a bit of a clown & thinks a few shows on television makes him more important than the company.
Now they have Mike Ashley on board, it's inevitable that the product will get worse, like the brands he ruined with Sports Direct (Dunlop, Everlast)
I think models from the mid-2000s were just good solid models in general. I first started watching model railway videos around 2010ish and so those typed models were often the ones being covered. It felt like a good period for the hobby!
The old railways one is my favourite! It’s detailed, runs better than the new one, has a good mechanism and doesn’t fall to pieces. I don’t have a black five currently, and was thinking about buying one of the new ones, but honestly I think I’d be more happy with the old one…
Hornby were doing alright 20 years ago and this comparison proves it
Hornby's latest Black 5 is a classic example of newer not been better.
If enough of us refuse to buy them or return them as i have done theh they might
get the message.
There are plenty of the older versions to choose from, i think a lot of us will
have at least a few of them from the previous releases.
As prices go up and quality comes down, now is the time to find a good used
sample.
Couldn't possibly add to that, older is better, your absolutely right.
Yeah that's very true - it would have been better if they were built to the necessary standard... but sadly both of the ones I tried were not!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains So true Sam.
The new one would be better if the price was more around £160 and the quality was better… I actually thought about preordering one of the new black fives but I didn’t given Hornby’s recent track record and also because of the crazy price. I’m very glad I didn’t order one now, as I don’t have the patience to deal with models that cost of £200 that have crank pins that don’t stay in place, failing tender connections, glue marks left right and centre, torch issues and other smaller problems…
@@modelrailfan37 Absolutely! Such a shame, i do hope some employees from Hornby would follow Sams trains and learn something and improve the products, not to rip us off, we are loyal customers after all, show some respect Hornby please.
The only one I have is in LMS livery no. 5000 R2323 (National Railway Museum Collection) issued in 2003. It has a five pole skew motor, sprung buffers and cab interior. Love it.
I still run my late 80's tender driven one, its one of my sons favourites (it's Henry as far as hes concerned). Numbered 5241 I think.
Still a reliable workhorse despite advancing age and old Ringfield motor.
I have Hornby Lms Black 5 4657, and the very first one produced the silver seal one.
My hornby black five was one of the earliest models brought in the early 80's and the tender pickup was totally different to the ones you've just shown on your video, it just use to clip in between the bronze contacts, no wires either.
Thanks a lot for sharing - yeah that's absolutely right - the mechanism was entirely different on the original one!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I've bought a few of these super dobber detailed locos of hornby ect and I am now getting more older Airfix and Mainline railway locos and stock, as Parts don't come in the bottom of the box or fall off when you breathe on these new fangled models, and these older ones still stand up, I rember when Mainline first came out and their models were ' game changers ' back then, me for one won't be bothering with these new hornby ones.
haha that's true - the older models are definitely more robust!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I love my super dobber when I'm down the bingo trying to win myself some punctuation
I have a Mainline standard 4 purchased new in about 1986. It's very heavy, remarkably detailed for the time, and an excellent runner with brilliant pulling power. I had it converted to DCC (because it's split chassis) and it is still going strong.
Great comparison. Hopefully Hornby will sort out the issues in the second run of the new model.
I've got two high detail Black 5s. One in LMS livery and the other late BR with red banding.
I bought them both second-hand on Ebay between 1-2 years ago. One cost me £90, the other is one of the few named Black 5s 'Ayrshire Yeomanry' and is part of the 'Going Home' train pack which includes, three high detail LMS coaches and cost £130. The coaches go for about £30ish individually second-hand and boxed, so the loco itself effectively cost me about £40.😀
I wouldn't mind getting the new 'Glasgow highlander' Black 5, but will probably wait until I see one at a sensible price on the secondhand market.
Hi Sam, great video as always. I have like someone else who commented the Silver Seal Black Five R859 which came with the wrong valve gear, which I subsequently converted to the correct type . Still love it and runs to this day.
I had one of the tender dirve LMS liveryed Black 5s, I must have got it during the 1980s. I must have got it as a Christmas present, and at that time they were just part of the normal Hornby range, as the Hornby Railroad range was not around back then. I did also have one of the loco drive models, but sadly sold it at a time when i was not too happy with model railways!
Yeah absolutely - it was part of the Railways range for many years - ahh pity you sold it off - but many did the same only to return later!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
The biggest problem for me with the 2004 railroad version is the equidistant driving wheels. There should be a longer gap between the rear drivers to leave room for the Belpaire firebox grate between the axles. Once you realize that, it is hard to unsee it.
I have just purchased 2nd hand the 2004 model and I was holding my breath when looking at your video of the defective new model to see whether the manufacturer's number was the same as mine because I bought it in Hattons clearance. Fortunately it isn't of course. So in my view I have dodged a bullet. The model I have is aesthetically perfect as far as that goes and appears brand new. Since most of my running is with a max of 3 coaches due to layout size. and mostly slow, I am pleased the 2004 came out on top I am a fan of detail but you can't really see much when the loco is travelling round the track, which for me is the primary purpose. All in all, very good buy --and fascinating video.
To me a model is just that, a model. It represents a prototype but, just like the real thing, has its own unique quirks, design issues and ways of running. I loved this video because it shows the different ways all manufacturers try to use the technology to ‘improve’ models we will hopefully buy. Sometimes this is a total flop and the design is sent back to the drawing board - just like happened many times at Swindon, Doncaster, Crewe, Eastleigh etc. I love your channel because you focus on the model and what I should be looking for in that model. The only improvement in your marking scheme would be a score for smell. Some of the old locomotives have a fantastic oil and ozone combi that’s just not present in today’s offerings!😊
Hi Sam... I recently purchased some Hornby 8F loco's from up to approximately twenty years ago and they were noisy! The worm-gear was removed and fitted to identical 5-pole motors from China...ten for less than the price of One from Hornby!! The magnets were weak in comparison but they pull just as well and....they are Super Quiet!!! One of the old 8F motors was taken apart and the dirt and filings inside had to be seen to be believed!! The Black 5 used the X4026....another easily obtainable type motor. I forgot to say....NO way will I buy the new Black 5...it's cheaper and more fun to use the Brassmasters kits to upgrade.
Sam, have you noticed that on your Railroad model, on the left hand side looking from the cab, the valve gear near the piston rod is the wrong way around. It should be in front of where the piston rod join is, and that side, its behind.
Ahh very interesting - I'll have to look at that, thanks! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I have a Railroad range Black 5. Suits me just fine.
Thanks to your reviews & to all the comments from others, I finally found a S/H R2881 Railroad version "5112" and cost £50!
Have yet to test it, but if I DO get any issues, at least the shop will give a refund.
Personally, I wouldn't have been bothered in the past but if it turns out to be great, then I'll decorate it with loads of details and even add a proper crew. Make it look closer to a Superadetail version
Mine is the 2004 version, the first OO engine I had bought back in December 2018. I'm betting this model would be sold in the Railroad range sooner or later.
Anyway, I took her out of storage recently for a running session with some LMS new wagons I had bought recently. Nice puller, does the job perfectly.
I have seen a railroad Black 5 advertised for £84. You are correct the original model, which is now the railroad model was first produced in the late 1970s. I bought mine (exchanged in fact) for about £20-30. I have two of the 2004 versions bought in the mid decade. The first cost me £70 and the second on e bay for about the same. You will need to buy and review the latest one, which will be the Caprotti Black 5 with a double chimney, which is different enough from the others.
Hornby is not very available here in the states, but I found your comparison interesting. I watched the 2024 Black 5 review video and agreed with you then and seem to find myself in agreement with you 100% of the time so far. Great review and video as always, Jersey Bill.
Honestly It's not that bad since you don't get taxed and if u spend over 150 hornby will give your free shipping so 🤷♂️
Hi Sam, thanks again for an enjoyable and informative video comparison.
Here in New Zealand in 2023 I bought a couple of super-detailed Hornby Black 5's via internet auctions for the equivalent of £50-60 each. One is of 2002 vintage, the other of 2004. Both are superb runners, and feature the "copper brush" drawbar design in your Railroad version, but the chassis/motor, tender, and locomotive shell of your super-detailed version. Strangely, the original boxes do not advertise a DCC socket, but both locos had them on the chassis. Saved me two DCC conversions... 🙂
On a different note, have you considered showing the maximum speed of each locomotive during your tests? You usually seem to stick to 50% power or thereabouts. Would be fun and informative to see the locos doing 100%.
Keep up the great work! Cheers from Aotearoa New Zealand...
Purchased R2321 BR 45455 a few years ago, it is a nice performing engine.
Plough equiped for us modellers in Canada.
I must admit I am delighted by your findings as I purchased an utterly spotless ‘as new’ 2004 model in BR black for 80 quid last year! 😄 I still have my ancient ‘Silver Seal’ tender drive model from about 1973 and that thing can pull seemingly anything, which is why I used to raise my eyes when people used to insist that tender drive engines are useless 🤷 I recognise the tooling on the Railroad version but I must admit, the old one still looks great despite a lack of detail 🤔
Cheers mate, have a great week 👍🍻💎
An excellent video. The comparisons were very interesting.
I have a Super Detailed-era example, which is one of my favourite locos. I also have an older version, which whilst far less detailed is nevertheless very robust and still runs extremely well.
I was poised to add one of the latest versions to my collection, but deferred the purchase after watching your reviews of the loco.
Perhaps I'll re-consider buying one in the future if Hornby manage to rectify the various issues you identified.
Thanks for this review Simon. i have just committed to a pristine second hand refurbished 2004 model, upgraded with a Lok Sound 5 decoder. Probably worked out more expensive than a 2024 model, but, I KNOW it will sound great and be a fantastic runner. No brainer for me.
Hi Sam, another great episode. I have 2 Black Fives from 2008, the limited edition end of steam ones. They loco drive with the chip in the loco, but the old connection to the tender, but they have'nt got the massive weight in the tender. They are very good runners, & look ok, not as detailed as newer models but did'nt cost £200 each. I think thats what the pair cost!!
I was contemplating getting a new one, but having watched your reviews of the new one I think I'll keep my money & stick with what i've got.
I said in my comment yesterday that I would get one of the 2024 versions and today I went to a small shop and managed to pick up the BR late crest version named The Glasgow Highlander and it is excellent, no issues to report on mine, none at all and I do mean that, I haven’t even experienced the the drawbar issue, it all seems to work perfectly, the first black 5 to be added to my collection as I have never owned any before and I certainly feel I made the right decision, very happy with my 2024 version, been trying some of hornby HM7000 TXS decoders recently so when I get some money I may look at getting it sound fitted as there is a black 5 sound profile on the app.
£56.00 for our 2004 version got a an exhibition about 2016 runs superbly.
David and Lily.
I have the Railways model, in BR late crest. I am very happy with the level of detail and performance and having seen various reviews there is no way I would change mine for the latest version and totally concur with your review.
I could be wrong but I think the wheel details on the new version would’ve only been applied to the first one as it would’ve had a more eye-catching livery than later engines. It was done on the coronations so I think it was to show off the prototype. It’s quite impractical on a black 5.
Yes I think that's probably what I heard about it too!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Good point! It is odd though that Hornby haven’t done a 2024 one in a normal LMS livery though. Considering how many black fives were built I’d think most modellers would want one that looks just like the other 500+ locos that were built, as on a LMS layout you’d probably want a standard looking black five. Come to think of it I don’t think they did a 2024 one with the early crest ether…
@@modelrailfan37 as far as I can tell, they have not. Was looking for one, as I like the early crest era, and had to settle for a very good condition used one from EBay.
@@GerrywithaG1997 that’s so odd, honestly the older ones run better anyways though, so honestly I’d do the same
I have got a few Black 5s over the years, two old versions I got in the 80s and 90s, the others are all of their 2004 style. I have found though of the super detail versions I have had issues with pulling on two as they were the updated version with decoder in the tender and fixed drawbar. I found they struggled more than the earlier with detatchable tenders, even after adding weight to the loco chassis. Due to this I have picked up the earlier versions on Ebay as I know they can handle 8 Mk1s without struggling on my layout.
I have 2 of an earlier version of the super detailed ones. I think both have loco mounted 8-pin sockets, but neither have NEM couplings and both have the same drawbar as your railroad one.
The only reason I want a new release one is because they've done one of the Caprotti ones now.
Thanks, Sam. This comparative review is just what the hard-pressed collector needs to make a wise decision.
I have the 2004 Glasgow Highlander; haven't run it for a long time but it always went well at the time.
Ive got a lot of enjoyment from fitting x04 motors to tender driven black fives (and britannias), thereby getting them running 'properly'.
Super. Someone ought to make a Black 5 with locomotive and tender drive. I bet that it would pull the wallpaper off of the wall. As an operator, I like detail, but things like chassis design sometimes takes priority over a good looking locomotive with a poorly designed drivetrain. 💙 T.E.N.
Seeing the reviews of Hornby's latest black 5, I rushed out and bought the original 1973 version (with Fleischmann style tender drive) in mint condition for £25. I was not disappointed! To be honest, I can't be trusted with the current generation UK outline steam locos (even the ones without chronic production problems) -- the valve gear breaks as soon as I look at them!
While I'm waiting for the smoke fitted version, I have been looking for the Super Detail version for a while now. I have the Duchess of Sutherland which is from 2003 and I absolutely love it. For me that's the perfect balance of good mechanism, decent detail, but not too fragile. They fill the gap between toy grade tender drive model and super expensive detailed model. But since I've seen a few people showing a fix to the tender connection of the 2024 model, I want to wait for it because steam generators sound incredibly fun. Still, should I find the 2004 version for a good price I'll buy one. I may even recommend you do this more often, a new "Buffer to Buffer" series once a month. Compare different versions of one model. I think that would certainly be interesting and useful for someone like me who's buying models from all ages, but still balancing on not overspending. Great review, Sam
Great video, interesting that I have the opposite in that my 24 version has a far better crawl than my 04 version. But my 04 does haul my rake of home built wagons (not free rolling- a great test rake) slightly better. I like them both tbh. Especially now my 24 version has had its teething problems corrected by Hornby. I do have an original 5 (the one that ended up in the Thomas range) which I’ve not run for a while.
The first thing I'd do with the 2024 version would be to blacken the wheel centres they look ridiculous as is the price!
I find it bizarre that the ebay 2nd hand price is bascially the same if not a little more than the brand new price in 2004.
You read my mind Sam. Wanted a Black5 for a while and was waiting on the new release, needless to say I didn't get the new one.
More like this Sam! I was hoping you would include a tender drive version as well. How about a similar study of 8F, including a tender drive version and a Wrenn oldie? Would be good to see how the traction compares as well as the details/finish.
Hi Sam good review I have a 2004 version and it runs flawlessly and definitely won’t be changing it 👍
Glad to hear the 2004 ones are so good! Thinking I’ll buy one of them second hand instead of the new tooled one!!
@@modelrailfan37 yeah I bought mine second hand about 4 years ago👍and yep second hand is definitely the way to go providing you get a good one 👍
@@evanescecse very well said!!
The 2000’s Black Five is the model that got me back in to model railways. It was so much better than anything else I’d seen for years. I think mine was LMS 5052? Does that sound right?
My Railroad version slips like hell on a 9 coach train whereas my 2004 models have no issue. The Railroad version is also very inaccurate in its' dimensions as it's based on 70's tooling.
I have an 80s tender drive one and a 2004 version. The 2004 version has had smoke added, DCC sound fitted with a working lamp. And looks the part to me. All that cost me less than the 2024 version. So I don't really feel the need to upgrade especially if there could be various issues to address.
Hi Sam,
I was very surprised given how thought you normally are, to see you seem to have missed the two most obvious failings of the railroad version. namely its a 4 mm scale to short on the length of the loco and that horribly plastic skirt between the running plate and the boiler. For me no of cost reduction can take both these two issues into account, Which in truth make the railroad version not even a model of a black 5. your points about the new 2024 and the original 2003 super detailed are more on point.
cheers
Phil
Hey sam, I've got the tender driven and loco one that you showed. I love the loco driven one from the 2000s. It seems to run incredibly well. I might have to oil it soon, and it's probably the most expensive loco I've ever bought 2nd hand but pretty happy all the same ☺️
Brought up on model railways from the late 1970s onwards, I have a couple of the tender drive versions, including an original model as well as the 2004 varient. I find all run well and I can live with the lack of detail on the older ones. However, these are the kind of models I would have enjoyed doing a Crownline detailing kit on if I'd have had the models and money back then!
Of course, you did miss out one of my favourite versions, the green one with a big number '3' on the tender!
Now threre's a blast from the past,the Crownline adverts in the Railway Modeller,like you,wishing i could afford one,in my case doubting i had the skills to carry out the conversion.Thanks for the memory!
Having a couple of detailed 2004 versions I saw no need to buy a new 2024 version. Just need to add the Brassmasters detailing. I have just had the Black 5 Caprotti version as that was not available before in RTR. Early days to see how reliable the coupling is and the lamps may be removed.
when I was collecting model trains in the 2000's the Black 5 from that era was really nice for the time. A massive step up in quality, detail and smooth reliable running, only let down slightly by it's pulling power but not everyone has a big enough layout for 12 coach trains. If your layout is flat it'll have no bother with 7 or 8 coaches, I had several BR ones and liked them a lot. The new one looks disappointing with unreliable features, made worse by it's ridiculous cost
Hi Sam. I have a 2016 Hornby Henry from the Thomas & Friends range. Do you know if the railroad or super-detailed 2004 was used as the basis for that model?
I'm awaiting my 3rd Hornby Black 5 LMS livery. The model was so nice looking I am giving it 1 more go. I am curious to see if the BR livery would be any different but I doubt it. The issues I had with the first 2 were wonky smoke box doors and the tender coupling being faulty
My eyes don't work good enough to appreciate the extra 'bits' on the new model !
I never knew about the diecast tender in the loco drive one, the first thing that sprung to my mind was to fit a motor in the tender as well to create a super pulling power locomotive !
I'm off to find out if my loco driven 'princess' also has a diecast tender chassis !
For the last model of the Black 5, Hornby seems to have taken the 2004 chassis with zero modifications, add a 21 pins DCC socket, revamp the details and sold it as is. At least, we have a model that can run if the tender-engine connection is not fluxed up by shoddy manufacturing...
I think you're bang on with your review. I have several of the 2004 black fives and I love them never had any problems with them. They're such good runners and are so reliable.
I personally don't like the look of the new ones, especially the silver paint on the wheels. It looks so unrealistic. and the quality same so poor . Then this is the issue of the lights being massively oversized. I think they should've left these off the model .
If the new one had been good, I would've probably bought several but I haven't I've only got a limited edition one from Rails/ locomotion models on pre-order and that's only because 5428 is my favourite locomotive. I'm just hoping some of the issues have been resolved by the time it comes
I have the TTS Sound Black 5 (45116) since Aug 2016 - apart from the chip/decoder frying on me twice, it’s never had any fault. Absolutely love that model..
I have recently made it DCC Ready and I’m hoping that Hornby’s new 44726 with smoke can be a good replacement
Ahh fantastic - never did try the TTS one - glad it's good though!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I would agree that overall the 2004 tooling is the best of the Hornby Black 5's. The Railroad version is however a great "starter" for any upcoming modeller owning one for the first time. I am glad I haven't wasted money on the 2024 version after all the problems its had. I own 3 of the 2004-tooled versions (the tooling was slightly modified later on before the 2024 version made its debut). Any detail issues with the 2004 variant were overcome by modellers who were skilled enough to make the changes and in fact did make a nice project. For these reasons I prefer the 2004 tooling.
Yeah I think overall I might agree with that - if it worked better the new one would be best without a doubt... but apples to apples the 2004 one has the most pros!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Great comparison! I have also seen a Black Five Hornby Railways Silver Seal R.859 with running number 45192. It's very affordable but is it any good?
Hi Sam ,
I have a Hornby R3805 in BR late crested black, I’m not sure if you would say that it is a black five or not , but it certainly looks like one and was released in 2019.
Interesting review Sam - thank you! I have a version of the 2004 Super Detailed Black 5 and I am extremely pleased with it. It's a good runner and looks great on my layout!
I have a Railroad Black 5, because I didn't really care about the paint detail. Converted mine into a custom Henry from TTTE. Actually, I 3d printed my own detail, inspired by your 3d printing journey. Great runner after DCC fitting and one of my favourites :)
Nice video, as always!
The only new Hornby Black 5 I'll be buying is the Caprotti one available only direct from Hornby (sadly) - I'm perfectly happy with my older loco-drive ones.
I have the BR livery one R2322 from 2005. 5 pole motor with the tender pole/loco pick up arrangement. Runs beautifully still. The pic ups are separate items on the chassis block and can be fiddly to put back in after adjustment. The new black 5 looks naff and the tender/loco coupling wont be robust and seems problematic
Thanks Sam what a good comparison . I doubt Hornby has changed the gearing so the speeds all come down to the motor. Lets face it that is why Hornby added the lights, to persuade us to ditch our old models and buy the new one. Unfortunately for them, that idea sort of backfired, to me the lights just make the model look tacky.
Hi Sam
A good topic I would overall agree with the result I've only got 1 of the newest Black 5's and it was fine but its not enough to decide if its better or not except for the lamps that was poorly thought out. the railroad one isn't my favourite version mine is extremely sensitive to slightly dirty track as is even if the track is clean I have to clean the wheels on the loco before it'll work properly which isn't great the other don't do that. the 2004 one I always had hit or miss issues running them in backwards a the cab doors would catch the tender causing it to derail and I've got a few of these ones and about half of them have this issue other than that they run fine. I would nearly be happy if the 2004 version became the new railroad version.
i got my dad the 2004 version before the 2024 version came out & it's able to pull 8 LMS coaches up our helix with no problems so i have no intention of buying the 2024 version
Hi sam
Bought both versions of the 1984 releases LMS / BR
Tender drive with the ringfield motor happy with these models cost me $ 98.00 dollars at the time in 1984 aussie $ sad thing is they are still in their boxes
Got into BR diesels great video as always 😊
You can remove th.e tender weight in super detail model to improve pulling power
Well just come back from a local exhibition, bought a new in box 2004 version Black 5 for £85, less than a Railroad loco, is the new one worth over twice that?
I have a couple of the 2004 version "super detailed" Black 5s. The 2008 "The End Of Steam - Limited Edition" releases R26868A & R2686B. I had a problem with the valve gear guide separating from the piston housing in one. Poor fitting design IMV exacerbated by poor QC in this instance. Sourced a replacement part. Other than that, aesthetically great lookers sufficiently detailed for me which run well. They'll do me. I wouldn't want to be paying for a NEW one today.
Hi Sam, I have several Black 5's Including a mint original Silver Seal engine from 1977.
Sam I have just got the new accurascale class 66, I URGE you to get one and review it. Its outstanding
I've got a couple of Super Detail Black 5s that have the "Rail Road" tender connection, maybe they were earlier examples. Nay bother, they're so much easier to manage and no dangling wires. I would not swap either of them for one of the 2024 models!
Hornby was definitely at their peak for quality in the 2000s
I sold my 2004 Black 5 (one of the first batch released) as it suffered from a couple of issues very typical for Hornby of that era - wobbly driving wheels, valve gear that kept catching and a very annoying squeaky tender.
Maybe one day I'll buy a replacement, but certainly not for over £200!
Excellent information Sam, Cheers !
Great comparison, Sam, do more of these videos , very interesting.
The roof on cabs are different Sam thanks for comparrsion
Will you be trying the “new” 8F? Would love to see your opinion.
also sam what is the best hornby train to start with
The Black 5 model was first released in 1973. The tenders of the first ones were semi-permanently coupled to the engine. By 1976 several aspects of the model had changed, including the valve gear.
Various versions of the tender drive model were produced until the late 1990s. In fact, I thought the first Railroad ones were tender drive but I think I am wrong to think this.
The Railroad version was first released on 2009.
The super-detailed one was first released in 2002.
For the 2024, I have recently seen a TH-cam video by someone (I have forgotten who but they seemed to be sensible) who thinks he has fixed his tender connection problem by carefully bending the outer, tiny spring clips on the tender part of the connection. However, that is not something one should do on a brand new model. Hopefully Hornby will resolve such problems with the next batch. Of course, not every example of the current batch apparently suffer what your first one did but far too many have done so. Hornby claim they have not had many complaints but who knows what is really going on. I just hope Hornby do get things sorted. While Hornby do sometimes seem to ask for criticism, I would far rather they get on top of everything rather than go out of business.
Please continue with the excellent, regular dose of varied videos. You really must put many hours into them. Kind regards.
Thanks a lot for sharing - yeah the tender drive/early 2000s railways version did go through some alterations. It could well have been in the railroad range before the change to loco drive - not sure about that! Thanks a lot for sharing,
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Sam will you ever consider getting any of the bachmann Thomas and friends rolling stock
At least I know what black 5 to choose now so cheers for that
The older Super Detailed Hornby Black 5 model is superior in every single way because it has better quality and it performs better than the new 2024 version does Sam.
Hi Sam Very interesting about on Three Black 5 as best one is 2004 model! and I bought second hand few year ago on No 5055 model in non hornby box! but wonder about it which year it is? any one or you sam know it?
Cheers!
Interesting video comparison, though I would have like to have seen a dimensional comparison between each model as well against published details.
The only new black 5 I was even excited about is the caprotti one just because it’s different
Just as a thought- as on the prototype tractive power of a steam loco is a function of the locomotive weight (NOT including tender) would it not be a bit more useful to compare the weight of the locos only, THEN talk about the drag of the tender.....
I'm confused after your review. Mine is the 2002 version R2257 and has modern couplings and tender but the draw bar assembly from the railroad version. I would go with your 2004 model but the Railroad version stands the test of time, if you're watching it from three feet away.
What should it's 1/76 scale weight be?
Hornby Thomas 'Henry' is based on the Black 5..great runner as a loco driven one 👍
I have 4 of the original super detail black 5's all them have railroad method tender to loco coupling, not sure when they went over to to later style as your original super detail black. I would have the original super detail over the latest version.
I want to like buy the loco driven black 5 but only the chassis because I wanted to like scratch built the body but sorta simplified.