Defendant did not ask to be put into the situation. Why does he have to defend himself on equal grounds like a sports match. Cops don't treat it this way and the military sure as hell does not
What really gets to me is that the Prosecuter said that Colie "brought a gun to a cell phone fight" but Colie didn't go into the mall looking for a fight he went in there to do a job to earn an honest living when he unfortunately crossed paths with this bully. With all the crazy things going on the world today what is one supposed to think when approached by strangers acting with most bizzare behaviors and even after Colie swatted the phone from his face and told the guy to STOP that is when Cook should have realized that things were getting out of hand and he should have backed off. I say prosecute the prankster.⚖
If you have self-defense incident, you have about 70 to 80 percent chance of being charged with some type of crime depended on what state or city you live in. These self-defense insurance companies know that up front and should not sell a product that is worthless because someone is charged with a crime and many times unfairly charged. In fact, I will add if you are in certain parts of NY, CA and other anti-gun states you have a 90 to 99% chance of being charged in a self-defense incident.
The incident that made me get USCCA was that a friend was ultimately in a legal shooting but the state was charging it as a crime, he spent time in jail before the judge released him without bail but all in all he spent over $20k before the case was dropped. This whole time, about 3yrs now I thought I was covered in an incident like that with USCCA. So glad I found AOR.
USCCA didn't drop him, he chose the public defender because he liked the guy. (Colie has confirmed this.) USCCA is handling his appeal. I'm not saying I completely trust USCCA, hence why I'm researching this.
Proportionate use of force, okay. Did the victim have to wait to be attacked or find out to act in self defense since all other factors were met. We are missing stated intent to harm him but in this case actions used made the victim assume that he was going to be attacked based on the attackers intrusion into his personal space, initiating contact in aggressive manner all signs that he could have had intent to harm the victim. Victim does not have to find out to act.
USCCA sounds terrible. They weasel their way out of another one. Much better to be a client of a real law firm that wants to go to court on your behalf.
I just (7-1-24) called to cancel USCCA. First they argued with me. I told them I think they know why. They brought up the Giles case and said terrible things about her. I said that was not the reason. Then they brought up the Colie case and explained his current status with them as a customer. I told them that is not the reason. They started to argue some more. I asked if the call was recorded and they said yes. So I asked if they were going to continue to argue with me or if they would process my cancellation? Eventually they agreed to not renew my membership several months from now. I explained to them that I am cancelling right now, this day. Finally they agreed to a prorated refund, but I can't have the money for 6 to 8 weeks. Only took me a few hours after AoR to run, not walk, out the USCCA door.
I'm reasonably certain that Mr. Coley was a USCCA member. I was a member thereof once upon a time. They give you a membership card with an "emergency number" to call. If you're not a member, you may as well call a plumber to fix your legal pipes. To be fair, for TRAINING, FIREARMS SAFETY, ALTERNATIVE SELF-DEFENSE, etc. information, USCCA is a good source for those things. However, when your freedom is at stake, you ARE calling a plumber who will tell you that your pipes are busted, too bad, if THEY determine defense, or criminality. I, personally, use de-escalation, in order to avoid use of force of any kind. If that fails, I use the the most minimal force possible. If I am reasonably certain of serious injury, or fatality, my force used will match the situation accordingly. To TH-camrs, Tik Tokkers(?), et al., I say, DON'T DO STUPID THINGS JUST FOR CLICKS, VIEWS, LIKES, SUBSCRIPTIONS, etc. As seen in this case, you will eventually "prank" the wrong person.
I was a USCCA customer but they were utterly useless when I needed them for help with an unlawful suspension of my CCW. I was told about AOR but when I called and spoke to someone I was not treated very politely by the person on the phone and moved on from there. Ive since decided after reading so many of the contracts that none of this stuff is worth the money, the fact that the guy Alan got off on the most serious of charges with a public defender reinforced this feeling.
Thank you for the comment. We are sorry to hear about your experience with one of the service representatives and at the Attorneys For Freedom Law Firm, we are always committed to excellence and would love to make things right. You can contact our Director, Jonathan, of the Attorneys On Retainer Program at 480-455-5227. He will be able to assist you with any more questions you may have regarding Attorneys On Retainer.
@@AttorneysOnRetainer thanks for the response but Im a big 1st impression guy and this soured me. I also think all of this is a giant waste of money after paying for USCCA for years and the one time I needed them they proved useless. Best of luck!
We spoke to his attorney, Adam Pouilliard and he confirmed that he was a member of USCCA. We just can't confirm the reason why he was dropped. All we know is that court records states that he called USCCA after the shooting, but now he is represented by a public defender: www.loudountimes.com/news/phone-call-evidence-excluded-from-sterling-mall-shooter-trial/article_10e5427c-2752-11ee-a290-dba251ae97c1.html
@@AttorneysOnRetainer I believe he is a member based on the facts. It would just be nice to hear it directly from him about what happened with the USCCA.
I've been called for several jury selections. They always reject me. I asked my personal lawyer (for my side consulting business) out of curiosity. He said that they always pull people with "too much education." They want people who won't be independent thinkers. He said if they ever were forced to explain why they pulled me, they'd claim my time as a firefighter made them pull me. Anyway, yep, juries are not your peers unless you're dumb as hell.
With how stupid these “TH-cam pranksters” are becoming, this was bound to happen sooner or later. I’m just surprised it happened in an American shopping mall before it happened in the hood. These “pranksters” are putting their life on the line while not being funny at the same time. Clout chasing is an embarrassment.
Negative. Let’s not overlook the fact that the victim here was ACTUALLY accosted by THREE people. They ALL ignored his requests for them to stop and get away. When you are outnumbered and in a sense surrounded, he doesn’t have to produce any more proof that he was in danger of serious bodily harm and/or death.
I remember this one kid (quite similar to this situation) where he thought it would be a good idea to run up on people with one of those rubber training knives and pretend to rob people thinking it was funny. Until he did to the wrong person, who like coley was conceal carrying, felt that not just his safety but the safety of the people who were with him was in danger, pulls his gun out and kills the "prankster" The dude even had a buddy with him and kept doing the whole, "why did you do that? Its just a prank." All that crap. I feel horrible for coley. Just a guy minding his own business is now in a world of legal trouble. If that kid left him alone, it wouldnt have happened.
I am so proud of you guys. I am now an AOR member and left USCCA after 8 years as a platinum member. People expect help in these situations. In this case, the guy should have pulled the gun and warned the guy IMO, even though that is still a bad situation. However, that said, I would have adjudicated this in a manner so he had the most minimal sentence possible as well if not simply saying this was reasonable self defense since the prankster was pursuing. People like that prankster have no basic respect for others now a days and these pranksters need to grow up and stop acting childish and foolish and in this case intimidating to someone smaller. The prankster has no idea what the state of mind or stress levels are within the other man (the defendant) who is just trying to go about his day and work to make a living. The prankster initiated this situation... This is a tough one to call. Since it is so tough, I would probably have to say tie goes to the batter in this case.
The defender also in this case didn't know that it was a prank and the mindset of the 3 individuals. They just came up to his face out of nowhere. It's not on the defendent to try to guess what those 3 were thinking or planning to do in that moment. Plenty of people in those similar types of situations have gotten assaulted or worse. If they tried that in a bad neighborhood with the locals the outcome would be about the same
I don't care. What anybody else says here? I think the guy really jumped the gun. The guy had no gun. He was just video taping him n he shoots him!!.thats a crime straight up pure n simple.. What's next cause the guy looks at him wrong.. I'm a member of the United States concealed, carry association and yes, they do put that there in their terms. They do not defend criminal acts and that was a criminal act... I've had altercations with people for stuff similar to what this guy did to him and I never thought about shooting them. The only thing I did was i just looked for security to take care of it.1 Or I would just push them and get tough with them and usually they just stop But I would never take someone's life just because he's video Taping me or crank joking on me..
it's not a tough case, it obviously wasn't morally justifiable. His life was not in danger, he wasn't threatened with any physical violence at all. And he obviously didnt' feel very threatened, not dropping his bag, and turning his back on the so called threat. He shot cuz he was annoyed. It's not okay to kill someone because you're annoyed. The fact that this needs to be said is really disturbing. No one who thinks this is 'self defense' should be allowed to own a gun, as they're not mentally capable enough to have that responsibility.
They need to change the laws. If you’re minding your own business like this guy and you’ve made a reasonable attempt to inform the aggressor to stop 🛑 and they don’t. I think you should be able use the tools you have at your disposal. Could be your hands, car keys, pepper spray, firearm.
@@doxasticc he was more then just annoyed. he was unsure of what was happening and felt unsafe. the prankster didnt announce the prank outloud before it happened (that would no longer be a prank) .
@@JO3BID3N-is-a-P3D0 Idk why I have to keep stating this, or why it has to be stated at all, but 'not knowing what is happening' is not an excuse to start shooting. In fact, that state of affairs explicitly _prohibits_ shooting. You're only justified in shooting iff there is a _known_ imminent threat of great bodily injury or death AND iff shooting is the only way to stop that threat. Being confused or feeling a little unsafe doesn't mean you just start blasting.
If I understand things correctly If it gets brought up on appeal, he would only be fighting the charge of firing a gun in a mall and not the malicious wounding. He's already been found not guilty for that so he can't get recharged for it due to double jeopardy.
The jury essentially found Colie not guilty of shooting Cook, but guilty of unlawfully firing a gun in an occupied building...that is what he is currently in jail for (w/ no bond) and is awaiting to appeal in December www.fox5dc.com/news/man-who-shot-youtuber-at-dulles-town-center-to-remain-in-jail-as-lawyers-continue-to-argue-self-defense-alan-colie-tanner-cook-delivery-driver-shoots-youtube-star
They're not allowed to cover criminal charges by law. If you shoot someone in self defense and they decide to charge you with a homicide, no insurance company in the country is allowed to cover you. Thank goodness Attorneys On Retainer isn't an insurance company.
@Attorneys On Retainer. Its interesting that at 6:20 its stated that "just pulling out the gun and blasting..." is a "...tough argument." In some states, lets use NJ for example, displaying a firearm is a crime in of itself. I wonder how it would have gone if hypothetically showing a potential assailant a firearm ends up de-escalating the situation, but then the assailant now calls the police and the person with the gun now is then arrested for breaking some "Brandishing" law.
I live in Virginia, I’m stunned that lawyer was able to get not guilty, not knocking the result, it just really surprises me, my opinion of it is there were at least half those jurors have been bullied, that guy looked like a bully, most people do not like bullies. If he was a bully , I bet he thinks about it before he sticks anything into anyone’s face. This is the mindset some of those jurors developed maybe. It’s just a guess of course. There are many tv and radio ads denouncing any type of bullying here in Virginia.
Alan was not justified in shooting that guy. The prankster was annoying, but was not posing any kind of a lethal threat towards Alan. The prankster was indeed harassing him, but not in an overly aggressive manner and had no weapons brandished. Alan clearly over reacted and responded with lethal force. I don't believe Alan should see any jail time, but should be held responsible for any damages to the prankster or his family.
I wouldn't have shot, but if I was on the jury, I'd have found not guilty. (Outnumbered, much larger guy, no legit reason for the guys to be following him.) But yeah, I wouldn't have shot. Maybe if I were walking down a dark, empty street, but not in a mall during business hours.
Facts that mitigate against "escalation" are that Mr. Tanner had an accomplice in close proximity to Mr. Colie. There was literally an arm length separating Cook and accomplice from Colie. Trying to display the firearm would not have been a tactically good decision. Mr. Colie was retreating. Mr. Cook pursued. It's not clear that Mr. Colie had opportunity to safely retreat. I agree the verdict makes little sense in this case. But the appeal process will be grueling.
To give some perspective. From a tactical standpoint (not legal advice), I don’t think it’s wise to brandish your weapon to ward off a threat. The point of concealment is to have a level of retention. If I announce and/or show that I have a gun, that eliminates the advantage of concealment. Makes it more dangerous for yourself in a self defense scenario in my opinion. I wouldn’t pull out my gun unless it’s absolutely a life threatening scenario. However, I do find it frustrating that often times the justice system seems to punish citizens for defending themselves in many cases. It makes citizens more hesitant in life threatening scenarios.
This is how you get mugged. Nonsense distraction and then shake down and possible violence all while outnumbered 3 to 1. Alan knew this, Tanner clearly did not.
I would have never shot in this situation. But I’m glad he was found not guilty. At least on the most serious part of the crime. Jury was a little dumb on the guilty part.
Living in NY you would have been charged with brandishing a firearm, aggravated assault, and any other charge. The left wing jury would put you away for warning the guy.
Kinda weird, but USCCA just got done explaining to me all about Mr. Colie's status as their customer as of 7-1-2024. Seems like that would be confidential. If I knew how to reach Mr. Colie, I would like to warn him that USCCA is willing to tell random strangers on the phone about his coverage status.
This case is a good reminder why OC spray is so important for people who carry. Imagine if the defender had OC spray is in pocket and his pistol in a proper holster, and had given the prankster a squirt of the sauce instead. He could’ve avoid all this legal trouble and still adequately defended himself.
@@edaboodie6346 A person can be charged with a crime for just about anything. Please elaborate. How many people in the US have faced criminal charges after using OC spray to defend themselves?
@@user60521123 , you’re beginning from the assumption that using pepper spray in “self defense” is the natural presumption of the law. There are videos right here on utoob showing criminals using pepper spray offensively. Short of video evidence of exactly what happened, people defending themselves get charged with crimes all the time in the US. If you were really interested in the truth of the matter, you’d already know what i know. This is quite easily verifiable information. It appears you’re too put off by being wrong to actually seek the truth for yourself. Even if i did it for you, you’d likely cry “fake news” or the like. As you were.
There are some people who have no reaction whatsoever to pepper spray. It sounds odd, but I’ve been assured by multiple police officers (one of whom was my cousin who retired two years ago after 25 years) that it’s completely true. Some people will feel like their face is melting (that would be me; dude I can’t even eat chicken wings with anything over mild sauce), some people are only mildly annoyed, some, especially if they’re on drugs, become enraged and extremely dangerous, and to some people OC pepper spray might as well be just tap water in a Dollar Tree squirt gun. Tasers too. Some people will be dropped by a taser, and some people are able to take it and keep attacking. There are people out there, myself included, who are able to handle a higher electrical shock than others. That’s probably because I spent years getting shocked as an electrician’s helper 🤣
From what I've heard about other cases AND THIS Case > it just might be best > especially if it's a good self defense shoot > to ask for trial by Judge, not Jury if you have that option.
Marc and Andy, I think you might be able to make some really interesting videos about the importance of the second amendment, your support for the Second Amendment as a law firm, and your own personal journey related to firearms. Do you have a CCW permit? What made you decide to start carrying? What are your personal beliefs about home defense? Etc
THREE DUDES NOT TWO....1. BaBy Huey i the white ball cap. 2. The scrawy punk in the flannel shirt. and 3. The guy making the youtube video. Franklly it looked to me like the mall was damned near empty. So you had this poor guy in an empty mall trying to make a living is suddenly surrounded by three goof balls.
@@charliefoxtrot5001 I disagree. I've seen literally hundreds of videos where cops shoot a person 15 times for things every bit as ambiguous as some people say this was.
@@johnpublic6582 Just show one example! People making those types of arguments typically have no clue about use of force policies by law enforcement or the law. And, yes, law enforcement officers commit crimes too! There was no imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury here. This was simply not a deadly force situation. Anyone thinking otherwise is just gambling with jail or getting shot in return. Please, get some training!
I suspect the reason Mr. Colie immediately called USCCA is because that's what they instructed him to do. I am a member of a competitor organization, and I carry a membership card with an emergency number and my instructions of what to tell the police. I am supposed to call the number and follow the instructions from the attorney on the other end of the phone.
I appreciate you both are Attorneys but as a fellow citizen this response while disproportional to the alarming state of the aggressor, is exactly what we need more of in this country. People should have a healthy fear you fuck with someone you risk your life! It’s easy to play armchair quarterback months after the event but when fear has a death grip on you and you have tried to stop an aggressor this response was dead on what should be expected. This guy was not a cop who is constantly trained in proportional response. This is a citizen in fear of his life. Fuck around and find out.
Do not like how you two are somewhat belittling Jurys! It seems as if judges and attorneys want to abolish jury trials. And i hope and pray that a jury is NEVER 10 defense attorneys! "I'd RATHER BE JUDGED BY 12, THAN CARRIED BY 6!" And i would add that i would rather be judge by 12 instead of judged by a judge! It's amazing to me how fickle judges can be. You are fighting the judge in some cases! And in that court room, the judge is the KINGPIN! With his own private army! As for Miss Kayla case, i have not read the transcript. The Jury must have seen something that said she did it. Women have been given the power to destroy the family, the home , and the community. 80% of divorces are filed by women. Thank you both for the breakdown of this case.
Sounds to me like the uscca is a waste of money.. These days you will almost always have some sort of charges brought against you in a self defense situation...
So something you mentioned in this, when folks in the jury reveal themselves (in the privacy of the jury) to be "anti gun guys" (or if they reveal themselves to have other ideologies that would prejudice their decision) is there a redress available to a juror who believes the defendant cannot get a fair trial because other jurors are determined to convict based on their prejudice rather than listening to the facts of the case? Is their a procedure for warning the court that the jury will not be acting in good faith? I'm presuming there is, but I'd rather hear your professional take on it rather than settling for my own presumptions.
I canceled my USCCA but joining AOR is not fast and easy. Called 10 am today, Sunday and then tried online chat and they only take messages. Doesn't sound 24/7 service. Are they going to do the same for an incident when I join?
Honestly -especially after taking CCL classes- you don’t use deadly force until you are threatened with a deadly weapon or risk great bodily harm which non of these two were clear before the driver shot the prankster.
I'd argue being mobbed by 3 large individuals is a reasonable threat and the jury seemed to agree. But hey also you know pepper spray/gel exists, I doubt he would have faced a day in jail if he maced them all.
Safe de-escalation can go only so far. The aggressor was standing too close to the defendant for him to verbally warn the aggressor that he (def.) was armed or for the def. to show his gun as a defensive warning. Logic: Big guy easily takes away gun from littler guy. In this scenario, the steps were very limited to de-escalate the situation (e.g., walk away (✔️), tell the aggressor to stop (✔️), continue to walk away (✔️), unholster and shoot to stop the threat because he continued to pursue the defendant (✔️). If I am in fear of an aggressor, regardless of his size, and he is as close to me as these guys were, I would NEVER tell him or show him that I am armed. The risk is greater than zero that he will take my gun from me after I verbally or physically imply that I will use it to defend myself.
What if he used a stun gun to burn out the prankster’s eyes or pepper sprayed the prankster’s eyes? Would he still be prosecuted? What if he punched the prankster in the throat or broke his leg? Could he claim 100% self-defense if he handle it with those methods instead?
There is no 100% right or wrong answer to your question it just depends on the police and or prosecutor involved in the case and if they are pro self-defense or not.
I carry every day, but I think Mr. Colie should have shouted get away from me louder and brought more attention to the situation, after all he was in a mall and not outside and totally alone. I am glad that they let him go, and I'm glad no one was killed.
Or you could argue the cell phone was a voice box because the other guy had recently gotten throat surgery. Let’s skip fantasy land and focus on real life kid
Oct 19, 2023 - Last month, a jury found Alan Colie not guilty of the most serious charges against him after shooting Tanner Cook however Cook's parents are horrible people who defended their son for harassing this guy shame on you! You're not real parents but enablers of bad behavior!
Unless you're a trained professional like a police officer you can just shoot then say i feared for my life. The proportion argument goes out the window.
If the situation were flipped, little guy being the aggressor, would the outcome have been the same? Or would there be a greater expectation that the larger person should be able to handle it physically?
Speaking as a uscca member, this among some of their "training videos" have started to cause me concern. I'm honestly shopping around. I've read some on your website, still researching, but it's like some more info.
Thanks for the comment! Check out the coverage comparison chart on our website at AttorneysOnRetainer.us/aor-difference/. If you have any questions, feel free to call us at 866-404-5112 or send us an email at Contact@AttorneysOnRetainer.us.
It took from the Giles and Colie events to now (7-1-24) to finish my research and take action, but I left USCCA today because I joined AoR two days ago.
He is definately close enough to injure the guy or hurt him. He told him to stop. In light of Covid and Influenza getting in someones face like that can definately have ill intent. The dude was too close to show the gun and give a warning cause he may have grabbed it or other wise took it away. So I think in these Covid days this man was justified in thinking his life may be at risk.
You need to use your common sense, do you even know what a life threatening situation is!? those protocols you are adhering is just not valid because really need be living in a hostile environment where you could likely be forced into a situation to a valid self defense, a mall is not a hostile environment!
There is a prank youtube video of two idiots who dressed up in a clown outfit pretending to stabbing someone. One passerby retreated and drew his firearm. They were lucky he did not shoot.
I think what’s missing here is a level of push back before the gun is introduced. Where’s the pepper spray? Baton maybe? Ok. Ok, taser? That’s just my issue with this.
if the victim had displayed his firearm he would have still been charged by that state. and now the firearm can be fought over by the atracker, i say the victim did everything right in that situation! lets stop acting like self defenders need to do better then the averaging cop who I'm sure would have gone to max aggression the second someone bigger then him stuck a phone in his face!
24:00 what any pro constitution wants to hear And by all means let the videos run long. Y'all always drop something extra to show what you really think
This dude is guilty! He is not being threatened by any measure! He is a fragile looking individual, but he is still guilty! People are stating that gun insurance should represent you no matter what! Guess what! CAR insurance does the same exact thing!! If they feel you committed a crime that lead to an accident before or after an incident, they will drop you!!
Defendant did not ask to be put into the situation. Why does he have to defend himself on equal grounds like a sports match.
Cops don't treat it this way and the military sure as hell does not
OTOH, Cook *did* go to the mall to start a fight. We have two very different mens rea with these two people.
What really gets to me is that the Prosecuter said that Colie "brought a gun to a cell phone fight" but Colie didn't go into the mall looking for a fight he went in there to do a job to earn an honest living when he unfortunately crossed paths with this bully. With all the crazy things going on the world today what is one supposed to think when approached by strangers acting with most bizzare behaviors and even after Colie swatted the phone from his face and told the guy to STOP that is when Cook should have realized that things were getting out of hand and he should have backed off. I say prosecute the prankster.⚖
So someone should die over putting a phone to your face? Jesus people are sensitive you wouldn't survive highschool now a days
If you have self-defense incident, you have about 70 to 80 percent chance of being charged with some type of crime depended on what state or city you live in. These self-defense insurance companies know that up front and should not sell a product that is worthless because someone is charged with a crime and many times unfairly charged.
In fact, I will add if you are in certain parts of NY, CA and other anti-gun states you have a 90 to 99% chance of being charged in a self-defense incident.
The incident that made me get USCCA was that a friend was ultimately in a legal shooting but the state was charging it as a crime, he spent time in jail before the judge released him without bail but all in all he spent over $20k before the case was dropped. This whole time, about 3yrs now I thought I was covered in an incident like that with USCCA. So glad I found AOR.
based on what evidence? You have stats to back that up?
Where are you getting those stats from?
@@66racer I just finished cancelling my USCCA since my AoR is now active.
Why isn't Cook charged with Criminal Mischief?
More than likely because even though he started it he’s seen as the “victim”
Bully in the white hat violated the universal natural law of "you shouldn't eff around with a stranger"
3v1 seems like a definite threat to me
agreed
Reaffirms my decision not to go with USCCA
USCCA didn't drop him, he chose the public defender because he liked the guy. (Colie has confirmed this.) USCCA is handling his appeal.
I'm not saying I completely trust USCCA, hence why I'm researching this.
These types of situations make me wish there were laws that require Prosecutors to make Defendants whole in the case of an acquittal.
Proportionate use of force, okay.
Did the victim have to wait to be attacked or find out to act in self defense since all other factors were met.
We are missing stated intent to harm him but in this case actions used made the victim assume that he was going to be attacked based on the attackers intrusion into his personal space, initiating contact in aggressive manner all signs that he could have had intent to harm the victim.
Victim does not have to find out to act.
USCCA sounds terrible. They weasel their way out of another one. Much better to be a client of a real law firm that wants to go to court on your behalf.
I just (7-1-24) called to cancel USCCA. First they argued with me. I told them I think they know why. They brought up the Giles case and said terrible things about her. I said that was not the reason. Then they brought up the Colie case and explained his current status with them as a customer. I told them that is not the reason. They started to argue some more. I asked if the call was recorded and they said yes. So I asked if they were going to continue to argue with me or if they would process my cancellation? Eventually they agreed to not renew my membership several months from now. I explained to them that I am cancelling right now, this day. Finally they agreed to a prorated refund, but I can't have the money for 6 to 8 weeks. Only took me a few hours after AoR to run, not walk, out the USCCA door.
These are the kind of lawyers i want to defend and represent me.
I'm reasonably certain that Mr. Coley was a USCCA member. I was a member thereof once upon a time. They give you a membership card with an "emergency number" to call. If you're not a member, you may as well call a plumber to fix your legal pipes.
To be fair, for TRAINING, FIREARMS SAFETY, ALTERNATIVE SELF-DEFENSE, etc. information, USCCA is a good source for those things. However, when your freedom is at stake, you ARE calling a plumber who will tell you that your pipes are busted, too bad, if THEY determine defense, or criminality.
I, personally, use de-escalation, in order to avoid use of force of any kind. If that fails, I use the the most minimal force possible. If I am reasonably certain of serious injury, or fatality, my force used will match the situation accordingly.
To TH-camrs, Tik Tokkers(?), et al., I say, DON'T DO STUPID THINGS JUST FOR CLICKS, VIEWS, LIKES, SUBSCRIPTIONS, etc. As seen in this case, you will eventually "prank" the wrong person.
Very best comment.
Yes. Absolutely. No charges ever should have been filed
charges should be filed agaisnt the idiot pranking
right, it should be okay to take a life because you're annoyed for 20 seconds. You shouldn't be allowed to own a gun.
@@doxasticcI agree with that don’t let your anger get you down to a weasel level
I was a USCCA customer but they were utterly useless when I needed them for help with an unlawful suspension of my CCW. I was told about AOR but when I called and spoke to someone I was not treated very politely by the person on the phone and moved on from there. Ive since decided after reading so many of the contracts that none of this stuff is worth the money, the fact that the guy Alan got off on the most serious of charges with a public defender reinforced this feeling.
Thank you for the comment. We are sorry to hear about your experience with one of the service representatives and at the Attorneys For Freedom Law Firm, we are always committed to excellence and would love to make things right. You can contact our Director, Jonathan, of the Attorneys On Retainer Program at 480-455-5227. He will be able to assist you with any more questions you may have regarding Attorneys On Retainer.
@@AttorneysOnRetainer thanks for the response but Im a big 1st impression guy and this soured me. I also think all of this is a giant waste of money after paying for USCCA for years and the one time I needed them they proved useless. Best of luck!
@marcg7751 don't lump them up with the rest of these legal service providers. Their insurance partner us probably who screwed you over.
Hopefully you can reach out to Alan to confirm that he was a USCCA member.
Glad you created an affordable self defense retainer program.
We spoke to his attorney, Adam Pouilliard and he confirmed that he was a member of USCCA. We just can't confirm the reason why he was dropped. All we know is that court records states that he called USCCA after the shooting, but now he is represented by a public defender: www.loudountimes.com/news/phone-call-evidence-excluded-from-sterling-mall-shooter-trial/article_10e5427c-2752-11ee-a290-dba251ae97c1.html
@@AttorneysOnRetainer I believe he is a member based on the facts. It would just be nice to hear it directly from him about what happened with the USCCA.
@@AttorneysOnRetainerBad look for uscca
NOW; is NOT the time for "Practical JOKES"!!!
Why does the law (duty to retreat) only apply to the victim and not the aggressor? The law should apply to everyone equally.
Shouldn't apply to the victim at all. One party has chosen the interaction.
Virginia has no duty to retreat
The very definition of an aggressor would be someone who would not be retreating.
@chrisfoxwell4821
Do you know the very definition of dictionary?
@@wardroland270, I feel like this is either a trick question or, more likely, you're actually asking what a dictionary is.
I've worked around the courts for many years. Most of those picked for juries were the dimmest people in the pool.
I've been called for several jury selections. They always reject me. I asked my personal lawyer (for my side consulting business) out of curiosity. He said that they always pull people with "too much education." They want people who won't be independent thinkers. He said if they ever were forced to explain why they pulled me, they'd claim my time as a firefighter made them pull me.
Anyway, yep, juries are not your peers unless you're dumb as hell.
With how stupid these “TH-cam pranksters” are becoming, this was bound to happen sooner or later. I’m just surprised it happened in an American shopping mall before it happened in the hood. These “pranksters” are putting their life on the line while not being funny at the same time. Clout chasing is an embarrassment.
This would have been a good time for pepper spray rather than a gun.
I carry both.
“Bless him with the hot sauce. The best tool between a harsh word and a gun” - John Correia
Negative. Let’s not overlook the fact that the victim here was ACTUALLY accosted by THREE people. They ALL ignored his requests for them to stop and get away. When you are outnumbered and in a sense surrounded, he doesn’t have to produce any more proof that he was in danger of serious bodily harm and/or death.
is "targeted by a guy for a TH-cam video" ever used figuratively?
This was well done, good job.
I remember this one kid (quite similar to this situation) where he thought it would be a good idea to run up on people with one of those rubber training knives and pretend to rob people thinking it was funny. Until he did to the wrong person, who like coley was conceal carrying, felt that not just his safety but the safety of the people who were with him was in danger, pulls his gun out and kills the "prankster"
The dude even had a buddy with him and kept doing the whole, "why did you do that? Its just a prank." All that crap.
I feel horrible for coley. Just a guy minding his own business is now in a world of legal trouble. If that kid left him alone, it wouldnt have happened.
Technicality here; there are no DoorDash employees. Drivers are independent contractors given no protections so we provide our own protection.
It is illegal to 'brandish a weapon' in VA.
I am so proud of you guys. I am now an AOR member and left USCCA after 8 years as a platinum member. People expect help in these situations. In this case, the guy should have pulled the gun and warned the guy IMO, even though that is still a bad situation. However, that said, I would have adjudicated this in a manner so he had the most minimal sentence possible as well if not simply saying this was reasonable self defense since the prankster was pursuing. People like that prankster have no basic respect for others now a days and these pranksters need to grow up and stop acting childish and foolish and in this case intimidating to someone smaller. The prankster has no idea what the state of mind or stress levels are within the other man (the defendant) who is just trying to go about his day and work to make a living. The prankster initiated this situation... This is a tough one to call. Since it is so tough, I would probably have to say tie goes to the batter in this case.
The defender also in this case didn't know that it was a prank and the mindset of the 3 individuals. They just came up to his face out of nowhere. It's not on the defendent to try to guess what those 3 were thinking or planning to do in that moment. Plenty of people in those similar types of situations have gotten assaulted or worse. If they tried that in a bad neighborhood with the locals the outcome would be about the same
I don't care.
What anybody else says here? I think the guy really jumped the gun. The guy had no gun. He was just video taping him n he shoots him!!.thats a crime straight up pure n simple.. What's next cause the guy looks at him wrong.. I'm a member of the United States concealed, carry association and yes, they do put that there in their terms. They do not defend criminal acts and that was a criminal act... I've had altercations with people for stuff similar to what this guy did to him and I never thought about shooting them. The only thing I did was i just looked for security to take care of it.1 Or I would just push them and get tough with them and usually they just stop But I would never take someone's life just because he's video Taping me or crank joking on me..
I guess we can agree to disagree
it's not a tough case, it obviously wasn't morally justifiable. His life was not in danger, he wasn't threatened with any physical violence at all. And he obviously didnt' feel very threatened, not dropping his bag, and turning his back on the so called threat. He shot cuz he was annoyed. It's not okay to kill someone because you're annoyed. The fact that this needs to be said is really disturbing. No one who thinks this is 'self defense' should be allowed to own a gun, as they're not mentally capable enough to have that responsibility.
@@doxasticc On point!! I totally one hundred percent agree with you my my brother
Proportionality was NOT met, period. Not self defense.
The new improved AOR program sounds like a winner.
If you have any questions about our program, feel free to give us a call 866-404-5112 or email Contact@AttorneysOnRetainer.us
This is a classic case of FAFO. Pranks aren’t appreciated by everyone and are only appropriate when targeting people you know. That’s the lesson here.
They need to change the laws. If you’re minding your own business like this guy and you’ve made a reasonable attempt to inform the aggressor to stop 🛑 and they don’t. I think you should be able use the tools you have at your disposal. Could be your hands, car keys, pepper spray, firearm.
agreed
Then highschools would have a lot of shootings
@@doxasticc he was more then just annoyed. he was unsure of what was happening and felt unsafe. the prankster didnt announce the prank outloud before it happened (that would no longer be a prank) .
@@JO3BID3N-is-a-P3D0 Idk why I have to keep stating this, or why it has to be stated at all, but 'not knowing what is happening' is not an excuse to start shooting. In fact, that state of affairs explicitly _prohibits_ shooting. You're only justified in shooting iff there is a _known_ imminent threat of great bodily injury or death AND iff shooting is the only way to stop that threat. Being confused or feeling a little unsafe doesn't mean you just start blasting.
If I understand things correctly If it gets brought up on appeal, he would only be fighting the charge of firing a gun in a mall and not the malicious wounding. He's already been found not guilty for that so he can't get recharged for it due to double jeopardy.
The jury essentially found Colie not guilty of shooting Cook, but guilty of unlawfully firing a gun in an occupied building...that is what he is currently in jail for (w/ no bond) and is awaiting to appeal in December
www.fox5dc.com/news/man-who-shot-youtuber-at-dulles-town-center-to-remain-in-jail-as-lawyers-continue-to-argue-self-defense-alan-colie-tanner-cook-delivery-driver-shoots-youtube-star
@@AttorneysOnRetainerunderstood. But if not convicted and there for self defense.
Is self defense a legal reason to discharge in a mall
Thank You for the excellent talk and break down. Please keep up your great work.
Uscca seems poor quality insurance as they disqualify your coverage when you need it in many reports
They're not allowed to cover criminal charges by law. If you shoot someone in self defense and they decide to charge you with a homicide, no insurance company in the country is allowed to cover you. Thank goodness Attorneys On Retainer isn't an insurance company.
Completely useless company.
I served on three juries (two civil and one criminal) over a 20 year period. And all three were a comprovised verdicts....
Is it really a compromise if the one affected doesn't have a say?
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. The way things are going in this world right now. No legal measures should of been against the shooter.
@Attorneys On Retainer. Its interesting that at 6:20 its stated that "just pulling out the gun and blasting..." is a "...tough argument." In some states, lets use NJ for example, displaying a firearm is a crime in of itself. I wonder how it would have gone if hypothetically showing a potential assailant a firearm ends up de-escalating the situation, but then the assailant now calls the police and the person with the gun now is then arrested for breaking some "Brandishing" law.
I live in Virginia, I’m stunned that lawyer was able to get not guilty, not knocking the result, it just really surprises me, my opinion of it is there were at least half those jurors have been bullied, that guy looked like a bully, most people do not like bullies. If he was a bully , I bet he thinks about it before he sticks anything into anyone’s face. This is the mindset some of those jurors developed maybe. It’s just a guess of course. There are many tv and radio ads denouncing any type of bullying here in Virginia.
Alan was not justified in shooting that guy. The prankster was annoying, but was not posing any kind of a lethal threat towards Alan. The prankster was indeed harassing him, but not in an overly aggressive manner and had no weapons brandished. Alan clearly over reacted and responded with lethal force. I don't believe Alan should see any jail time, but should be held responsible for any damages to the prankster or his family.
I wouldn't have shot, but if I was on the jury, I'd have found not guilty. (Outnumbered, much larger guy, no legit reason for the guys to be following him.)
But yeah, I wouldn't have shot. Maybe if I were walking down a dark, empty street, but not in a mall during business hours.
Facts that mitigate against "escalation" are that Mr. Tanner had an accomplice in close proximity to Mr. Colie. There was literally an arm length separating Cook and accomplice from Colie. Trying to display the firearm would not have been a tactically good decision. Mr. Colie was retreating. Mr. Cook pursued. It's not clear that Mr. Colie had opportunity to safely retreat. I agree the verdict makes little sense in this case. But the appeal process will be grueling.
2 guys on camera… 1 more with camera… so he felt surrounded because he was surrounded-
You guys ROCK!😎
Thank you for the support!
To give some perspective. From a tactical standpoint (not legal advice), I don’t think it’s wise to brandish your weapon to ward off a threat. The point of concealment is to have a level of retention. If I announce and/or show that I have a gun, that eliminates the advantage of concealment. Makes it more dangerous for yourself in a self defense scenario in my opinion. I wouldn’t pull out my gun unless it’s absolutely a life threatening scenario. However, I do find it frustrating that often times the justice system seems to punish citizens for defending themselves in many cases. It makes citizens more hesitant in life threatening scenarios.
Yes. Next question
This is how you get mugged. Nonsense distraction and then shake down and possible violence all while outnumbered 3 to 1. Alan knew this, Tanner clearly did not.
I was also thinking that too much force was used on that.
He should sue the USCCA. And that youtuber for 8 months of lost wages.
I would have never shot in this situation. But I’m glad he was found not guilty. At least on the most serious part of the crime. Jury was a little dumb on the guilty part.
When society has deteriorated to the point of multiple attackers being very common, pull out your rod and get to work
They found him guilty of a gun in the mall because the USCCA said he committed a crime.
Then his gun liability insurance (USCCA) dropped his coverage. Letting him sit in jail for a month without bail.
Your life is being affected by a compromise....
Living in NY you would have been charged with brandishing a firearm, aggravated assault, and any other charge. The left wing jury would put you away for warning the guy.
Really enjoy these videos. I saw the video get discussed by talking heads when it came out but wondered what attorneys would say.
Kinda weird, but USCCA just got done explaining to me all about Mr. Colie's status as their customer as of 7-1-2024. Seems like that would be confidential. If I knew how to reach Mr. Colie, I would like to warn him that USCCA is willing to tell random strangers on the phone about his coverage status.
This case is a good reminder why OC spray is so important for people who carry. Imagine if the defender had OC spray is in pocket and his pistol in a proper holster, and had given the prankster a squirt of the sauce instead. He could’ve avoid all this legal trouble and still adequately defended himself.
Not entirely accurate. You can still be charged with crimes when using sprays, stun guns, tazers, etc.
@@edaboodie6346 A person can be charged with a crime for just about anything. Please elaborate. How many people in the US have faced criminal charges after using OC spray to defend themselves?
@@user60521123 , you’re beginning from the assumption that using pepper spray in “self defense” is the natural presumption of the law. There are videos right here on utoob showing criminals using pepper spray offensively. Short of video evidence of exactly what happened, people defending themselves get charged with crimes all the time in the US. If you were really interested in the truth of the matter, you’d already know what i know. This is quite easily verifiable information. It appears you’re too put off by being wrong to actually seek the truth for yourself. Even if i did it for you, you’d likely cry “fake news” or the like. As you were.
releasing OC spray indoors is also a crime, same as discharging a firearm inside a mall, so he'd still have been convicted of that charge either way
There are some people who have no reaction whatsoever to pepper spray. It sounds odd, but I’ve been assured by multiple police officers (one of whom was my cousin who retired two years ago after 25 years) that it’s completely true. Some people will feel like their face is melting (that would be me; dude I can’t even eat chicken wings with anything over mild sauce), some people are only mildly annoyed, some, especially if they’re on drugs, become enraged and extremely dangerous, and to some people OC pepper spray might as well be just tap water in a Dollar Tree squirt gun.
Tasers too. Some people will be dropped by a taser, and some people are able to take it and keep attacking. There are people out there, myself included, who are able to handle a higher electrical shock than others. That’s probably because I spent years getting shocked as an electrician’s helper 🤣
What about a brandishing a firearm charge? You could be charged for threatening the person
I would not have shot in this situation, but I wouldn’t call it unjustified. The TH-camr should reasonably expect to get hurt.
From what I've heard about other cases AND THIS Case > it just might be best > especially if it's a good self defense shoot > to ask for trial by Judge, not Jury if you have that option.
The defendant is always free to ask. However, the state is often required to consent to a waiver of the jury. They often don't consent. - Marc
@@AttorneysOnRetainer Huh, learned a new one today. I thought I had a right to choose, not a lack of prohibition to beg the mercy of the court.
Marc and Andy, I think you might be able to make some really interesting videos about the importance of the second amendment, your support for the Second Amendment as a law firm, and your own personal journey related to firearms. Do you have a CCW permit? What made you decide to start carrying? What are your personal beliefs about home defense? Etc
Thanks 🙏👍 for your time
2 dudes rolling up on 1 person. That's grounds for self defense.
THREE DUDES NOT TWO....1. BaBy Huey i the white ball cap. 2. The scrawy punk in the flannel shirt. and 3. The guy making the youtube video. Franklly it looked to me like the mall was damned near empty. So you had this poor guy in an empty mall trying to make a living is suddenly surrounded by three goof balls.
the law needs to be more black and white and less up to interpretation for the law to truly be unbiased
Multiple assailants acting irrationally is a threat - police would have protected themselves when assaulted as well
They would have wrestled and/or pepper sprayed the suspect.
@@charliefoxtrot5001 I disagree. I've seen literally hundreds of videos where cops shoot a person 15 times for things every bit as ambiguous as some people say this was.
@@johnpublic6582 Just show one example! People making those types of arguments typically have no clue about use of force policies by law enforcement or the law. And, yes, law enforcement officers commit crimes too!
There was no imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury here. This was simply not a deadly force situation. Anyone thinking otherwise is just gambling with jail or getting shot in return. Please, get some training!
I suspect the reason Mr. Colie immediately called USCCA is because that's what they instructed him to do. I am a member of a competitor organization, and I carry a membership card with an emergency number and my instructions of what to tell the police. I am supposed to call the number and follow the instructions from the attorney on the other end of the phone.
I will also be leaving USCCA when my membership expires, looking into Attorney's on Retainer now....
I appreciate you both are Attorneys but as a fellow citizen this response while disproportional to the alarming state of the aggressor, is exactly what we need more of in this country. People should have a healthy fear you fuck with someone you risk your life!
It’s easy to play armchair quarterback months after the event but when fear has a death grip on you and you have tried to stop an aggressor this response was dead on what should be expected.
This guy was not a cop who is constantly trained in proportional response. This is a citizen in fear of his life. Fuck around and find out.
Do not like how you two are somewhat belittling Jurys! It seems as if judges and attorneys want to abolish jury trials. And i hope and pray that a jury is NEVER 10 defense attorneys! "I'd RATHER BE JUDGED BY 12, THAN CARRIED BY 6!" And i would add that i would rather be judge by 12 instead of judged by a judge! It's amazing to me how fickle judges can be. You are fighting the judge in some cases! And in that court room, the judge is the KINGPIN! With his own private army! As for Miss Kayla case, i have not read the transcript. The Jury must have seen something that said she did it. Women have been given the power to destroy the family, the home , and the community. 80% of divorces are filed by women. Thank you both for the breakdown of this case.
Sounds to me like the uscca is a waste of money.. These days you will almost always have some sort of charges brought against you in a self defense situation...
But Colie is a USCCA member and the USCCA CEO said he is a covered member. This must be why Colie had to have a public defender….🤔
Mace, pepper spray gel spray just saying.
Fisticuffs
@@Anomicchaosgrenades
So something you mentioned in this, when folks in the jury reveal themselves (in the privacy of the jury) to be "anti gun guys" (or if they reveal themselves to have other ideologies that would prejudice their decision) is there a redress available to a juror who believes the defendant cannot get a fair trial because other jurors are determined to convict based on their prejudice rather than listening to the facts of the case? Is their a procedure for warning the court that the jury will not be acting in good faith?
I'm presuming there is, but I'd rather hear your professional take on it rather than settling for my own presumptions.
I canceled my USCCA but joining AOR is not fast and easy. Called 10 am today, Sunday and then tried online chat and they only take messages. Doesn't sound 24/7 service. Are they going to do the same for an incident when I join?
Honestly -especially after taking CCL classes- you don’t use deadly force until you are threatened with a deadly weapon or risk great bodily harm which non of these two were clear before the driver shot the prankster.
I'd argue being mobbed by 3 large individuals is a reasonable threat and the jury seemed to agree. But hey also you know pepper spray/gel exists, I doubt he would have faced a day in jail if he maced them all.
Safe de-escalation can go only so far. The aggressor was standing too close to the defendant for him to verbally warn the aggressor that he (def.) was armed or for the def. to show his gun as a defensive warning. Logic: Big guy easily takes away gun from littler guy. In this scenario, the steps were very limited to de-escalate the situation (e.g., walk away (✔️), tell the aggressor to stop (✔️), continue to walk away (✔️), unholster and shoot to stop the threat because he continued to pursue the defendant (✔️). If I am in fear of an aggressor, regardless of his size, and he is as close to me as these guys were, I would NEVER tell him or show him that I am armed. The risk is greater than zero that he will take my gun from me after I verbally or physically imply that I will use it to defend myself.
You're the type of idiot wholl shoot someone in any situation that you deem is life threatening when it's not!
I think there might have been a different outcome if there was no video, only eye witnesses.
What if he used a stun gun to burn out the prankster’s eyes or pepper sprayed the prankster’s eyes?
Would he still be prosecuted?
What if he punched the prankster in the throat or broke his leg?
Could he claim 100% self-defense if he handle it with those methods instead?
There is no 100% right or wrong answer to your question it just depends on the police and or prosecutor involved in the case and if they are pro self-defense or not.
I carry every day, but I think Mr. Colie should have shouted get away from me louder and brought more attention to the situation, after all he was in a mall and not outside and totally alone. I am glad that they let him go, and I'm glad no one was killed.
Has anyone asked the jerk with the phone what he thought he was doing?
You could argue that the cell phone was used as a distraction for an attack with an unseen weapon
Or you could argue the cell phone was a voice box because the other guy had recently gotten throat surgery. Let’s skip fantasy land and focus on real life kid
@Megalomaniac5728 why couldn't that be a valid scenario?
Oct 19, 2023 - Last month, a jury found Alan Colie not guilty of the most serious charges against him after shooting Tanner Cook however Cook's parents are horrible people who defended their son for harassing this guy shame on you! You're not real parents but enablers of bad behavior!
C'mon, man! This was just a harmless way for Cook to raise money for his doctoral in oncology research. He is days away from curing cancer.
Make this video over, when you indeed have more facts. Rather than an anti USCCA video. That being said, I went with you for my CCW 😎
Unless you're a trained professional like a police officer you can just shoot then say i feared for my life. The proportion argument goes out the window.
My question is - would you guys have taken this case?
If the situation were flipped, little guy being the aggressor, would the outcome have been the same? Or would there be a greater expectation that the larger person should be able to handle it physically?
Where is the sound? It doesn’t exist after the video
Wake up America
Speaking as a uscca member, this among some of their "training videos" have started to cause me concern. I'm honestly shopping around. I've read some on your website, still researching, but it's like some more info.
Thanks for the comment! Check out the coverage comparison chart on our website at AttorneysOnRetainer.us/aor-difference/. If you have any questions, feel free to call us at 866-404-5112 or send us an email at Contact@AttorneysOnRetainer.us.
It took from the Giles and Colie events to now (7-1-24) to finish my research and take action, but I left USCCA today because I joined AoR two days ago.
As as family AOR member, how do I get my free “Live and let live” mug ?
He is definately close enough to injure the guy or hurt him. He told him to stop. In light of Covid and Influenza getting in someones face like that can definately have ill intent. The dude was too close to show the gun and give a warning cause he may have grabbed it or other wise took it away. So I think in these Covid days this man was justified in thinking his life may be at risk.
You need to use your common sense, do you even know what a life threatening situation is!?
those protocols you are adhering is just not valid because really need be living in a hostile environment where you could likely be forced into a situation to a valid self defense, a mall is not a hostile environment!
There is a prank youtube video of two idiots who dressed up in a clown outfit pretending to stabbing someone. One passerby retreated and drew his firearm. They were lucky he did not shoot.
PS.i did pass it on, good information
That tells you Mr. Prankster you should find something else to do!
What is AOR?
I think what’s missing here is a level of push back before the gun is introduced. Where’s the pepper spray? Baton maybe? Ok. Ok, taser? That’s just my issue with this.
Wow USCCA really sucks, shocked face😮
AGAIN TH-camRS PRETENDING TO BE LAWYERS MAKEING VIDEOS IN A SMALL CLOSET THIS IS FUNNY WANT TO BUY A WATCH
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if the victim had displayed his firearm he would have still been charged by that state.
and now the firearm can be fought over by the atracker, i say the victim did everything right in that situation!
lets stop acting like self defenders need to do better then the averaging cop who I'm sure would have gone to max aggression the second someone bigger then him stuck a phone in his face!
24:00 what any pro constitution wants to hear
And by all means let the videos run long. Y'all always drop something extra to show what you really think
No not justified
This dude is guilty! He is not being threatened by any measure! He is a fragile looking individual, but he is still guilty! People are stating that gun insurance should represent you no matter what! Guess what! CAR insurance does the same exact thing!! If they feel you committed a crime that lead to an accident before or after an incident, they will drop you!!
That's right! Getting harrased by some creep with a phone is not a threat no matter how disruptive.