GAME SINS | Everything Wrong With Final Fantasy XVI
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2023
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This one nearly broke me. Over two months of work and my longest video ever just to sin Final Fantasy XVI. If these games keep getting longer I'm going to need more of me just to sin them. But not today. Here are the long awaited sins of Final Fantasy XVI
Please enjoy GAME SINS Everything Wrong With Final Fantasy XVI!
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#finalfantasy #gaming #review - เกม
Benedikta should have lasted a lot more in the story. Garuda being one of the best summons, her character warranted more prescence in the game.
Benedikta also was insight into Waloeder politics and Cid’s past life in Waloed. That could have been interesting.
Agreed. She was a great character
So to summarize a good amount of the plot in one phrase "And Jill is there too".
Well idk she's there the most time... she only really steps out of the action when it's the very end
And I mean she should've been in your party most of the time at the end until the end end....and still the partyis still her and joshua...... and if not that's your fault lol
@@bclap06able Exactly, she's just there, doing nothing.
@AzureRoxe I mean she did save Clive from the magma dude
.. spent the whole fight blocking off the wave of lava trying to pour onto the "battle field"....and Barnabas
Reply 5
Sin 34 was a misdirect. The mother said to the maidens earlier if harm came to Joshua that it would mean their heads. She stuck to her word 😅
I was going to say the same thing.
Its actually a pretty neat moment if you picked up on the callback
I do like the detail that Anabella wants Joshua to be unharmed (because he is the Phoenix’s Dominant and that confers political power but still).
@@iantaakalla8180little bit of misconception here but she did genuinely love Joshua, she didnt see him merely as a political tool. Same for Clive, it's implied she loved him until it was revealed that Joshua was the dominant and that started her hatred for Clive as she began to see him as the reason for Joshua's suffering. (Implied by her lashing out at Clive basically asking him why wasn't HE born the dominant just before she died)
@@Phyllion-*conditional love* notice how quick she turn her back when either children not up to her "standard" (clive) or weak/presume dead ( joshua).
Shes a whoring traitors. Look how quick she open her leg to the emperor and birth another. Not once she ever mourn nor feel guilty of the horrible thing she done to Clive or joshua.
Look, people should stop giving her a sympathy point cause she have a vagina ok?
Anabella started so strong as a character that rose through backstabbing and ambition, but her presence in the story got worse and worse. I was surprised Dartigan never mentioned the Black Shields. One of the first things after the second time skip has her make a force (offscreen) called the Black Shields solely dedicated to killing Bearers everywhere, even in the empire. You find a village where everyone was massacred by them. After the segment where you meet Wade and fight a Black Shield Dragoon, she apparently gets bored of them and they're relegated to side content. They're never brought up again. Maybe they were suppose to be Annabella's answer to resolving the Blight? Like an earlier draft of the story had her come to the conclusion that Bearers and their magic were the reason the Blight was advancing so she wanted them all dead, but it got cut because it would have taken away from the crystal-breaking plot.
Her role as the Empress is also terrible. She does so much off screen so you don't get a good idea of what's going through her head or her relationships with other characters. There's no GoT-styled scene of her manipulating Sylvester into becoming a callous conqueror. There's not even one conversation between the two of them. You'd think after making Olivier the successor, she would kill Dion to ensure Olivier's descendants would become Bahamut Dominants, but she just sits around and lets her step-son stage a rebellion that immediately ruins her plans. Clive has nothing to do with her fall.
I was expecting to learn her motivations were more complex like she joined the Empire and gave birth to Olivier so she could puppet him and run the empire behind the scenes or she was a servant of Ultima and gave Olivier to him as a vessel. But when you get to her, it's revealed she caused 80% of the game's problems because she's obsessed with Dominant bloodlines. It's a bit of a let down. Ultima doesn't even use her as an example of why individuality is a problem that deserves to be wiped out.
Yeah, she was a disappointment. When you finally confront her after 18 years, I was expecting more. How does she recognize Clive and Jill so quickly? She hasn't seen them in so long. The game kills her off so quickly that audiences don't know what her reaction is to finding out Clive is Ifrit, which is why the Phoenix didn't choose him. In fact, we don't even know if Annabella is aware that Jill is Shiva. It would have been interesting for the game to cover this: Annabella is initially suggested to be this conniving woman who will do anything for power, but she was totally unaware that she was raising three Dominants in Rosaria. She made a tactical error that the game never addresses. I was so let down that she killed herself before anyone could really do anything to her.
@@Dzzy123Her death was somewhat appropriate. The son and kingdom she betrayed everyone for were destroyed in a single night so I can buy her going crazy. But it definitely would have made more sense if she ditched Olivier to start praising Clive and Joshua as soon as they got back from beating Bahamut. As much as the game tries establishing she prioritizes the Dominants above everything else, she doesn't respect any of them.
How could Anabella be reedemed and not become a some awful character?
"There's no GoT-styled scene of her manipulating Sylvester into becoming a callous conqueror. There's not even one conversation between the two of them."
- True. I still don't understand the thought process of Emperor Sylvestre regarding Anabella - "Yes, this woman who betrayed her previous husband and his kingdom to their death and subjugation by my empire is definitely the sort of woman that I should marry!" - and it just makes him, in my opinion, the dumbest character in the game after Kupka.
@@Makkajakka For his first few scenes, I thought Sylvester's flower was laced with something to mind control him. Like Annabella or Ultima was drugging it to make him act out of character (according to Dion). But no... it's only a symbol of favor that bothers Dion.
Jill is such an interesting and potential powerful character, yet, yes, she's just turned down into "Jill is here too btw"
Most jaw dropping moment is when clive initially fights Bahamut, so yeah she's just there, eating popcorn 🍿 i guess 😂🤣
You don't understand, she has the Very Important Job of uh... (checks notes) live-commentating the fight for Anabella. And then half an hour later asks "should I Prime?" against a bunch of Akashic when they're far less threatening than a Bahamut on high Mothercrystal drugs.
Barry: Jill. You’re here too
@@themisheikaTo be fair, the first one was after she had been helping back to back for awhile, so she is right to hold back somewhat given she already had more and more signs of the Crystal's Curse going on.
@@RagnarokMasta Joshua. Literally has. That Ultima prison. Inside his chest. You really wanna tell me Shiva gets an off day while Phoenix is powering through his literal 5-year-long petrification prison AND FRESH INJURIES to fight? Really?
Also, what signs of the Crystal's Curse? We see it on Cid, we see the Ultima prison on Joshua, but Jill had two naked scenes, yet I can barely see any stoneskin. Because CBU3 gotta keep their women physically porcelain perfect instead of actually showing the price of war on their bodies as they do for men despite female trauma and scars being equally if not more horrendous, esp when women are disproportionately kept as slaves and prizes of war in that era. SHOW US JILL'S PAIN AND SURVIVAL. SHOW US THE SCARS FROM THE LASHINGS SHE ENDURED. DON'T FUCKING JUST IMPLY IT WHEN YOU NEED AN EXCUSE TO SIT HER TO THE SIDE BUT SHOW HER PERFECT WHITE SKIN WHEN YOU NEED TO PACKAGE HER UP AS SNOW WHITE WAIFU MERCH FOR SALE. WHAT THE FUCK IS THE POINT OF THE M RATING IF THEY CAN'T EVEN SHOW THE STORY OF JILL'S LIFE ON HER BODY? JUST FOR BLOOD AND SEX TITILLATION? This "having their cake and eating it too" misogyny from CBU3 and Maehiro in particular really pisses me off ngl.
@@themisheika Well this and that are different, I was arguing that it was pragmatic to not overtax your allies, especially since Clive was going over the limit and showed no signs until the end, and Joshua, as the Phoenix showing resiliency makes sense with the whole rebirth and renewal bit, so I never questioned him handling Ultima's prison because him being able to be more hardy than other Dominants made sense seeing he survived total immolation once.
As for Jill, I agree that showing scars are something they should do for women of battle, but they don't do that even for Tifa, who should have a canon scar from Masamune. So while I give you your argument, I'll say Jill isn't some absolute tragedy, she is still a good character.
Two of the weirdest FF16 moments were having an enemy cast ‘poison breath’ on me but it not inflicting poison, just doing the same damage that a punch to the face would. Also walking through a zone where they establish magic can’t be used in combat, only to have no combat encounters there and literally never encounter a zone like that again.
Wrong, you encounter it again on Waloed
@@bauloprete3905Still, twice in like a 60+ hour long game is very odd
Yeah, being hit by a Malboro's infamous Bad Breath attack and NOT ending up with like 7 status aliments and merely just falling over felt... odd to me.
I read that in sin voice
@@moonraven6145 Literally the scariest part of fighting a Malboro is those status ailments, instead they just come off as any other hard hitting enemy :’)
Since there’s a Game of Thrones influence, it’s very ironic there isn’t a Euron Greyjoy villain in this game. His motivations in the books is very much a Final Fantasy boss archetype and his dialogue has him stealing any scenery he’s in all the levels of Jenova-sephiroth, Kefka, Arydn, and or Bartandulus
That's because the retarded writers of this game dropped all the cool, fresh, and interesting GoT types of plots and characters the moment Ultima appears. Then it becomes generic FF plot#249. Cid's death really was the worst part of the game in more ways than one.
I mean does the game really need a traitorous loser to be oneshotted.
Maybe the Dominant of Leviathan is a pirate, maybe we even meet him in the DLC
@@sentientmustache8360
Sure, I could dig that.
Goddamn I miss book-Euron so much. I try not to think about what they did with him in the show, that shit was embarrassing.
Holy- ONE HOUR LONG MOVIE TONIGHT I COME!
I was shocked when it said 1hr!
Ive never been more happy that its a long vid 😍
@@PrimeHunter3195it’s quite short for the length of the cutscenes.
No subtitles though 🙁
I love that he waists no time telling us much the writers did Jill dirty
They kind of did. For the amount of screen time she gets she does a whole lot of nothing, and even her own "arc resolution" felt rushed while centering it on Clive in the end. Many argue that this is Clive's story, but to undermine Jill's character is no excuse for lazy characterization.
They did not Made Jill dirty
@@fieryrebirthpeople who defend the complete lack of Jill characterization by saying it’s Clive’s story need to look at Dion who has a whole arc and intrigue about him that Jill lacks. And he doesn’t even have a quarter of the screentime she does, it’s obvious they just didn’t give a fuck to write her as more than a passive love interest
@@jlit5215why your being a liar? Have you played this game? The iron kingdom Arc? The beach scenes? You skiped the sidequests did you?
@@fieryrebirthyour entirely wrong, but please show evidencie and not omit anything, please
One of my gripes with the game is the weird cinematography. An example that sticks out for me is in the flashback section and Clive is in like a field talking to his companion. The screen fades to black and you think the scene is over and you're about to play, but then it fades back in to the same field and they're sitting down talking.
This happens throughout the game and is so immersion breaking
You just need to play ff14 to understand why.. they gave the wrong guy to make this game... At this point I can't wait for Yoko Taro to make the next one, at least then we will get an rpg.
Not only did Zetaflare kill Donald in KH3, it's the spell they used to destroy the original Final Fantasy 14 and replace it with A Realm Reborn. That's canonical too. It was written into the story. It is considered the most powerful spell in the entire Final Fantasy universe
_ok I believe you_
But it didn't kill Donald
@@stanner601
You’re right……because Sora timey whimied back and Donald didn’t use it
That’s Terraflare, dumbdumb
Its also used by Bravely Default penultimate boss
"Jill is finally doing something with her power....losing!" 😂
Wrong, Jill does stuff
@@bauloprete3905 yeah, lose and look weak
@@xordu4246 Wrong, she isnt
@@fredy2041 stop being white knights. She`s one of the weakest characters. Its not her fault obviously. The sexist men who wrote her are at fault
To be fair she did tank a Zantetsuken in that scene, an attack that for the most part insta killed anything it touched, granted Clive also survived one because.. main character plot armour xD.
I kinda find it endearing how barely anyone ever mentions FF16's similarity in its story to that of Tactics. Both star an MC born of nobility but became rogue mercenaries after a massive betrayal from one of his own comrades that led to the deaths of his loved ones.
It even leaned heavily on a Game of thrones-style narrative where opposing factions are battling over the control of the continent, with the added plot twist that a group of demonic gods sealed inside a bunch of crystals (the leader of which is named Ultima) manipulating these events from the shadows through puppets of their own, in a grand scheme to find a human vessel and use them to rule the world themselves.
Heck, it even ends with a mention of a book that chronicles the events of what transpired.
Want an even bigger copy cat mind screw, play Tales of Berseria and see how much FF16 is similar to that one without the game of thrones references.
So FF16 is essentially a poor man's FF Tactics?
Except Tactics was written a LOT better, and wasnt cringy as fuck.
I think Tactics actually predates GoT. If it doesn’t, it’s pretty likely it’s development did at least.
@decusq Ohhhhh, yeah, you are right! I gotta finish that tales game. I just want another takes of Xillia. It was just too good
The biggest sin for me is the end and how it throws out what made clive special in the first place
Did the writers forget this extremely important plot point?.
To be fair, why would Joshua and Clive care that their half brother from a horrible mother was just killed in front of them? They literally never had one single quality time together
lol I hate this game, but your wrong. The one lil lame flashback developed that they have a close bond.
"Meet Clive, the first ever adult protagonist in FF."
Jack Garland: Am I joke to you?
I mean, this is the same energy as the FF16 devs insisting up and down that FF16 is the first FF ARPG when FF15 exist.
@@themisheika FF15, Type-0, Crisis Core, the Crystal Chronicles games, FF7 Remake and Rebirth, Explorers, Stranger of Paradise, but yea, FF16 SURE is the first FF action game.
Yes, yes he is.
Sin 40 correction, the eikon isn’t randomly reborn in another person
Clive’s mother bloodline has the ability to give birth to a phoenix-dominant so i think if a new phoenix were to be born the empire would’ve announced that so that’s probably why the alternative you spoke of didn’t come to mind at the time.
Which is a waste of her character. If she was raised in a strict, nigh-abusive household that was alone in all of the Twins in knowing about Ultima and believed she would birth the vessel of a god, it would've added so much more dimension to her character.
It is random. You need the blood but it’s random what person it goes to…
The phoenix's blessing lies in the archduke of Rosaria's bloodline, so she wouldn't have had the ability to create a new phoenix dominant making her supposed plan of spawning the dominant under the empire utterly useless.
I think her major plan was to take over the empire and nothing else
The fact that the characters never once question the fact that the Blight accelerates its spread with the destruction of each Mothercrystal bugged the shit out of me the entire game. Like, I could accept whatever handwaiving bullshit they came up with, but the characters just don't bring it up when SOMEONE absolutely should.
I don't even know why Ultima needed the Mother Crystals destroyed. I know it's because half of the Ultimas became the hearts of the crystals, but wouldn't they have been freed once they drained enough aether?
Perhaps it was off screen and reason was the other remaining Mother crystal / s took more energy or so
@@chrisdaughen5257 the way I understood it, once he reacquired Mythos he could've done it on his own. Note he tries to get into Clive immediately after his first shard is freed from the Oriflamme crystal. After that he just took a backseat and let it happen because Clive and gang was doing the exact same thing he wanted anyway + he was curious.
@@muhash14 That also brings up another issue with Ultima. His plan requiring Clive absorb all the eikons is a bit odd. For one, Ultima doesn't need Clive to get the eikons himself as evidenced by Ultima trying to take him over several times in the story. Also, Clive doesn't get all of them. Leviathan is still out there. Sure, you would think having 8 out of 9 of them would be enough for the Raise spell, but seems like a loose end for someone as meticulous as Ultima.
@@chrisdaughen5257 The worst part is that nobody questions that. We see Joshua and the Undying studying Ultima's and the Eikons' history/lore, not even once they go "Wait. What about Levianthan? What's that all about?". Everyone in the game and us the players know about what happened in Dzemekis(sp?), which is just a tale about the hubris of mankind, who were the Fallen and what happened to them; but for some reason the developers decided that the lore for Leviathan, the Motes of Water tribe and its Mothercrystal AND probably why Ultima doesn't (or can't) use Water powers ever is stuff not that relevant for the main game.
I would rather a long chain of sidequests about that and even could affect the main game overall, than 90% of those that were more of a waste of time.
"Her dog ends up being more useful" Rinoa, is that you?
The ancient civilization was an older civilization of humans that mastered magic and became hyper advanced. The ruins were theirs. Some of them tried to take the mothercrystal at Dzemekys and Ultima laid waste to them and their civilization.
To be fair, this is all described in the game's encyclopedia. It's weird how it's never used in the story to flesh out the world. Needed to make room for the side quests I guess.
@@chrisdaughen5257 You're able to put it together both from the story of Dzemekys that you hear when you first see it combined with Ultima's explanation of the origins of humanity.
@@chrisdaughen5257 I didn't use the encyclopedia and it was super obvious this is what happened. I dunno how someone wouldn't put that much together.
@@riggedgame1189I was expecting Ultima would go into a little more detail. During that scene where Clive and Jill see Dzemekys, they say the Sins of Dzemekys led to the creation of the Bearers and their slavery. However, you discover the system's true origins in one of the last side quests and it doesn't mention Dzemekys at all.
But the thing is, how come was Ultima able to control those robot things?
The VA for Sid is an actor in early GOT episodes. hes Dagmar the first mate that knocks out Theon when Ramsey is doing a seige on Winterfell.
It was a good speech, and it would indeed have been a shame to interrupt
And he was Charles Vane in Assassin’s creed black flag
Cid's VA also voiced Lorath in Diablo IV (one of the main characters)
Before all that he was a bloody good rep.
The devs were clearly trying to make their own version of Vergil with Barnabas, but they did it so sloppily.
They tried making it like DMC3 where you fight him multiple times, each time doing better until you completely beat him, but FFXVI starts these encounters way past the halfway mark. Clive already has all the Dominants' powers except Shiva and Odin by the time they first clash so it feels weird when Clive is easily bodied in a cutscene. From there, Clive's sudden increase in power doesn't feel warranted and players are expected to believe all Clive needed to beat him was Shiva's power (and maybe losing his virginity and proving he's totally not into Gav).
Even Barnabas letting his kingdom fall apart is terrible because it all happens offscreen. One minute Barnabas is fighting orcs, the next he's working with them and turning his people Akashic because Ultima gave him a pass or something. His mother is put in this spotlight that may suggest she's more important than what you're shown but it clearly establishes she's dead. One of the secret encyclopedia entries even covers a bit of her backstory, but it adds very little to his character.
So weird that the devs were mandated to watch Game of Thrones, yet don't kill off any of the main guys for a long time.
It’s like they changed there mind in the middle of it maybe they did that after seeing Season 8 😂😂😂
They kill off the cool guy (Cid) not even halfway into the game, but keeps the annoying side-kick Gav alive, what.the.F!?
No wonder it’s taken you 4 months to bring us a new episode
Mega excited to watch this. RIP to the subtitles 🙏
This is not a JRPG.
Tell that to square enix
I like the fact that Jill is taciturn, but hate that she never does anything. She should be there at all the important fights, except Titan Lost.
Solid video until the end. The notion that the game implies Clive's death is kinda weird when it implies he died saving Joshua and using Raise on him.
The red star disappearing was meant to suggest his death as the lore established in the game ties each Eikon to a crystal and his being the last to disappear would mean he and his Eikon would be the last to fall.
I have a sneaking suspicion that a sequel or DLC will reveal the red star to be a space station that somehow gave people the ability to use magic. Remember, when Clive used Raise to eliminate magic, the star didn't disappear, it dimmed as if it was an object, not a burning ball of light.
@@chrisdaughen5257 Interesting theory but I'm disincliend to think that's the case.
It seems more likely to me that it's the mothercrystal tied to Ifrit. It was placed up in the sky to keep it from being prematurely destroyed and to hide the eikon from the world until the time was right for Ifrit's dominante to appear.
I think the biggest evidence for this is Leviathan, or rather Leviathan's absence in tandem with its crystal. If the crystal dies and the dominant dies thereafter, there's no more means for the eikon to pass down from one generation to the next.
This also explains why it goes out when Clive passes away on the shore as his life is expended and all the eikons and remaining Ultimae have been destroyed.
Oh yes I've been waiting a long time for this one. This will be glorious, thank you Dartigan.
i was just searching to see if he posted one on this yesterday i agree
With a history of decent character names like Sephiroth, Tifus, Auron, Jecht, Wakka etc. they decide to call the main character "Clive". Sounds like a guy that does data entry.
…or directs horror movie.
The crystal Gav went back for was the first of a number of collectibles that appear in Clive's room at the second hideout. It became a symbol of the gang's pact to destroy the mothercrystals.
Sazh from FF13 and Jill give off the same energy
Both underutilized characters who should have played a bigger role in the plot?
@@Dzzy123 agreed.
@@Dzzy123Both are African Americans.
All of your points about Jill are sad, funny and true. Great character design nothing else.
No, its wrong, he avoided all her moments with Clive, the iron kingdom, the beach scene
She’s at least better than Kairi and Lunafreya. Yes she gets kidnapped a bunch, but it never derails the plot.
Ikr they funny but it’s sad
Final Fantasy XV: LARPing
Final Fantasy XVI: Actual Renaissance Festival
Whenever I hear an RPG will have a "political" storyline, I say to myself "Oh, okay, so no compelling tory then, gotcha..."
Between FF15 and FF16, I'm starting to think Square Enix forgot how to write women. FF7 Remake doesn't count because Tifa and Aerith already have established character from the original game. Oh and add KH3 in there too. Kairi had it even worse than Jill.
Ever since I learned that Atlus' Persona team don't interact with many women, it does give some heavier light to how much the FF team socializes. Japanese culture 'n all.
Remember Melody of Memory? Kairi spent a whole year searching for Sora in her head to learn... absolutely nothing. The Fairy Godmother learned so much more on her own time. Heck, Kairi needed Sora to defeat a MEMORY of Xehanort. I hope KH4 shows Sora's perspective of that moment (maybe as a tutorial segment?). It's just baffling how this subject matter is handled in recent Square games. It's like there's so little happening in their stories, they need to make side characters and love interests do as little as possible to make their MCs look productive.
@@fieryrebirth They need to diversify their development team if that's the case. Have more women in their writing team and have them give input on how to improve writing for the female characters. Atlus is also pretty bad in diversity in general. And FF16 not having any POC characters is also pretty bad in diversity, though idk if the internet could handle a game that has slavery and black people in it.
At least Kairi was playable in Kh3 through the remind dlc. That alone automatically puts her in better standing than Jill.
@@dustinvance243 Never played the DLC. I sold KH3 because of how disappointed I was.
You defeat Ultima? You can't even catch a ball!
"And so ends the Amber Heard of Final Fantasy"
holy shit i laughed harder than I should have at that
Sin 141 - Referencing Camelot is not a problem, since Knights of the Rounds and Excalibur are established in FF. It's as fine as having Valhalla in FF13-3, since Odin, Einherjar, Gungnir, etc are established.
The thing that always annoys me about the later FF games is the writing.
It's like they're afraid to let the story be edited down in any way to make the dialogue sound more cinematic and less like an incompetently done high school drama club production of king leer complete with laughable overacting.
Or in my case, how excessive the cutscenes are and how poor the game design is at times.
Incarnation of an air conditioner made me laugh my ass off harder than I'd like to admit
OMG, thank you for mentioning the Gav thing. After he took off, I turned around to see where he'd gone, and...there was a brick wall. No other corridors or anything, just a straight up brick wall. I feel like that's the most obvious sign that no one play-tested this game right the way through, or double-triple checked everything; it would have been so easy for them to mirror the scene where he runs, but they didn't, and it's so STUPID.
As a side note to one of your last points about them slipping the 'final fantasy' thing in there, there were at least five points in the game where you could almost tell someone in the writer's room was patting themselves on the back, going 'that's so cool'. I remember both Joshua and Clive yelling something together before they descend on Bahamut as 'Phoenix-Ifrit'. Every single one made me roll my eyes.
27:50 Yeah, sure. Vivi from IX. Definitely not the classic Black Mage design. No siree! It's Vivi, with his green and white pants, his hat with a strap, his white sleeves and his tiny posture. Oh, wait...
Nice vid :)
Noticing how many more people are realising how one-dimensional a character Jill is. Which when you have significantly more developed characters like Clive, Joshua, Dion, even Gav - Jill really brings nothing to the table besides being a shoehorned love interest with a convenient superpower.
Isn't that typical of these games though? It's a boy club traditionally.
Even in the remade games (like RE2R and RE4R), the women may have bigger or more interesting roles, but are still either simpering goofs (like Ashley) or sexpots only one supermodel sway away from hip dislocation (like Ada).
@@saga2964Wtf are you talking about? This is just so selective. RE2 and Re3 Remake literally star competent women. You're just cherrypicking to make a tired and terrible commentary.
Ada is a femme fatale. Ashley is a damsel in distress. There's nothing wrong with either one of these tropes. Just as there's nothing wrong with the traditional hero's journey (which usually depicts a man). You can't exactly make a femme fatale character if she's not attractive. That defeats the point. And yet Ada is still viewed as a bada** by fans. Ashley being a bada** would defeat the entire premise of RE4.
Come off the feminist nonsense. It's 2023. We should be past this Anita Sarkheesian insanity. Archetypes exist for a reason across every culture on Earth. We shouldn't be ashamed of these Archetypes.
And yes gaming was traditional a boy's club because until very recently over 80% of gamers were male. That's like complaining about rom coms being a girl's club. Even to this day when you exclude phone games the audience is overwhelmingly male and there's nothing wrong with that. Men and women are different.
@@themeangene you're name ain't kidding! Calm down, kid. It's gonna be ok...at least for everyone else. You might need some therapy first.
corny@@saga2964
Thank you for the great video. I enjoyed this game a lot, but it also has left me a bitter taste simply because it was very lacking in parts that were vert obvious. It's sad how they could've made it a true masterpiece but fell at the goal line. As a female gamer, I enjoyed Jill a lot but it was obvious she was nothing more than a love interest, Clives personal therapist and damsel in distress. The writing tried to appear deep but obvious they dont know how to write female characters and give them relevancy. Crazy how many in the comments think otherwise.
The "RPG" aspects was just slapped on as an obvious after thought. Oh well, overall, I enjoyed the story. Here's to hoping for future ff games!
I find that movies/games/books that "fall short" are much more frustrating than those that are simply bad. Bad you can forget about but a game like this leaves you obsessing over how much better it could have been.
If you want a game that has a pretty impressive female protagonist you should try "Tales of Bersaria". I just recommend buying one of the costume packs because her default costume stops making sense pretty quickly (I like the pirate costumes and think they should have been part of the base game).
During the Ifrit vs Garuda, Ifrit has yellow eyes, meaning that Clive is not in control of Ifrit. So far the only character to gain control over an Eikon was Joshua when he lost control then gained it during the fight with Ifrit(eyes go from yellow to blue).
They didn't destroy any crystals during the 5 year skip because of the Titan attack at the Hideout. They had to rebuild everything.
Mid is adopted, Cid didn't named her like that, and it's a FF tradition to have a Cid that has a descendant named Mid.
He can copy Titan's power because he absorbet its power already. Not too farfetched IMO.
Fire working in space is a sin ? Are you really going to ignore the fact that you call Eikon demigods ? It's magic, one is a dragon, one a fiery mythical bird, and one a firery angry man-dog.
For the jukebox sin you missed the part where it would be quite unlikely for it to have survived the attack of the old hideout.
Dartigan really should fact check himself more often. I know CinemaSins intentionally contradicts themselves for comedy purposes but when he does it it comes across more like being grossly uninformed. Probably because the style of his videos comes across less comedic like thiers and more like genuine nitpicking. It definitely hurts his credentials.
I like how he didnt sin Ultima not needing Clive anymore when he upgraded himself
why didn't he?
Final Fantasy has had adult protagonists multiple times. Furthermore Cloud has slept with Tifa. So Clive did nothing groundbreaking in those regards.
And I love the fact the everyone in your party not only know Cloud slept with Tifa but also they saw from the Highwind. Cloud and Tifa are voyeurs confirmed?
@SpaceImmemorial Cloud and Tifa thought they were all alone when that happened. It's your party members & Highwind crew who are voyeurs for watching them from the Highwind. Wouldn't be surprised if someone even recorded it.
The producer made the whole team watch all of game of thrones to make this game
And I thought crunch was the worst thing for a developer...
that true or a joke?
@@TheBlueGoldenHawk No, it's true.
@@TheBlueGoldenHawktrue even if hard to believe
Just google "Final Fantasy 16 game of thrones", you should find some sites talking of it
I think the crunch is why the GoT "inspiration" and a stock FF plot have an unhappy marriage. It's not inspiration, it's just checking boxes.
1:11:50 The villain is threatening to remove Ludo-Narrative Dissonance, removing the illusion of autonomy from the characters even in the cutscenes and conversations. He might as well attack the Fourth Wall as an in-game construct.
Ha, yeah, if this game was done by Platinum Games maybe. This game takes itself far too seriously sadly.
Atacking the forth wall was done in FF7 Remake. The Final Boss was the phisical embodyment of the 4rth wall.
@@fieryrebirth Then again, we were fighting Bahamut in space with fused Ifrit and Phoenix. Stuff like that is pretty hard to take seriously.
@@ZealSeraph Yep. FF was always meant to be flashy though - in a basic sense.
Sin 122 - You do see the crystal with the knives in it again as memento in Clive's quarters.
Gav lost an eye for a collectible?
@@chrisdaughen5257 I mean this is the same game where someone prioritized saving the jukebox over saving other people. RIP Kenneth.
I'm so glad you uploaded. I know these things are getting longer and longer, so why not sin an older game like silent Hill 2
I vote for Assassins Creed: Mirage. And please include the text for that one, i don’t have perfect hearing.
I don’t want you to overwork and I want you to release more videos so I’m in a bit of a bind, but it’s always exciting when your videos start with a 5 instead of a 3. Over an hour is amazing.
Been watching since FF13. Thanks for all the work.
5: Clive has the pheonix blessing, probably making him more powerful than most others.
13: I don't think his disease necessarily has to come to a head. He's just a more frail character than your average action hero. There are people out there with week immune systems.
17: Just... no? If you pay attention to the dialogue Jill is probably more important than anyone besides Clive and maybe Cid, but she becomes more important then Cid obviously after he... exits.
19: It's pretty clear that goblins and other monsters are actively hostile towards humans. They're keeping them from spreading to the populated areas.
26: It's not a stretch for them to assume they would be perused by said imperials. Clive was preventing that without revealing Joshua's location, which would have normally given him more time to escape if it wasn't for the disguised enemies.
28: Ultima intentionally manipulating Clive by taking this form.
30: Already solved by your own words, but yes Joshua is just a kid. I don't this dialogue is a very big deal
31: People complain about scripted losses, but also complain when they win and then lose in a cutscene. There's no winning here for the writers unless they make the player character win every fight, which would be absurd.
32: Just... why? Clive is alive because he's a dominant but there's no way for the guard to know that, so he took pretty much the only logical option.
34: she threatened to have them killed if something happened to Joshua. Something happened to Joshua. As for Clive, she's just a twisted person and wants to torture him because of how much she hates him.
35: The iron blood were intending to come back to reclaim Jill here. Did you miss the part where they come back and attack you and then you beat them all up?
36: 13 years is a long time, especially when your living them as a slave. I highly doubt Clive's memory was perfect. If it was people would just be saying the opposite: "How on earth did he recognize her so quickly after so long?"
37: Probably didn't have the determination to risk it. His desperation to save Jill finally forced him into taking this risk.
38: The game never states how long Cid and Charon were with Torgal I don't think. Also, fantasy wolves seem to be commonplace in thie world, so it's not a stretch to say that Torgal was expected to live a bit longer.
39: For Clive, see 37. For Joshua, he was a kid for a significant amount of that time skip, and it probably took him some time to discover Ultima. I doubt he started his quest that long ago.
40: The way this seems to work, I think that dominant would have to be 13 years old or younger. The hooded figure is clearly older than that.
44: Ultima wasn't originally one person. They were all merged into a single person to survive. That's why he always calls himself "we" or "us."
52: I believe the only reason the player knows Clive is Ifrit is because of marketing. The game is not structured for you to figure this out too easily. The only hint is Clive's surviving Pheonix Gate. Up until Joshua was revealed to be alive, I was honestly expecting there to be another Ifrit or some kind of twist along those lines because of how the moment is initially framed.
62: It seems that in order for Clive to take an eikon the dominant needs to willingly offer it or be in a defeated or submitted state. See: Benedikta was defeated. Cid gave willingly. Hugo and Dion were defeated. Jill gave willingly. Barnabas was basically dead.
71: Clive was conscious, but clearly wasn't in control of his actions. Either that, or his emotions made him lose restraint and take it out on Garuda. Either way, this isn't an inconsistancy
78: Clive says exactly that though. He only goes because Cid prods him
92: There's head in the box could have taken place earlier. Also, fast messages exist in this world via the owls. Also, the cursebreakers were there with Clive and Jill and spoke to them. He didn't even need a connection, and even if he did it was right there when they spoke to Gav and started following him back.
etc.
I don't disagree that the game has issues, especially with pacing (darn mandatory side quest moments) but a lot of the "sins" in videos like this are always a stretch
Careful the Dartigan fanboys don't get u
"Jill is here too btw"
He Is si wrong, thinking Jill does nothing Is insane
@@bauloprete3905 You're right. Jill did do something... giving Shiva to Clive (just as Barnabas and Ultima intended) since she wasn't doing anything with it anyway.
For all the supposed char growth she had during the Iron Kingdom arc, once it was over, it impacted both the story and her character so little that it might as well have been a side quest instead. Indeed, considering it was used as an excuse for why she got physically weaker as a character without any meaningful positive change to trade off with this, it is in fact a character regression arc, and why is that even considered a good thing?
These videos are insightful comedy gold. Cant wait to see EWW Mortal Kombat 1(2023).
I've been watching and loving your content for years. How are you not more popular?!? Did I pop into an alternate dimension? Is this the Bernstein effect at work?
Originally the iron priest guy was going to have some degree of character but they realized they had already given all the religious nut dialogue to Barnabas so they had to cut it and left him less developed than Clive's "squire".
Has that been confirmed? The Iron Kingdom had almost no development.
@@Dzzy123 nah just ill-mannered speculation, sorry
JILL: I'll give you what you need to protect us all.
CLIVE: Well, since you're not using it.
lmfao😭
1 hour sins video?? Well worth the wait 🙏
I'm not even being sarcastic when I say a shorter list would be what's right with it. There was literally almost nothing I really liked about this game. The production values were high but I have more fun playing a pixel remaster, so that means nothing to me.
About one of the few things I enjoyed in this game were Dion and uncle Byron. That's it. Oh and the dog. The rest was mind numbing. I'd put above KH3 for being among the worst games I've played. At least KH3 made me angry. FFXVI left me feeling empty. Which is worse. Both wasted my money and time.
Hi dartigan, are you going to do a quick vid to let us know when your live next on twitch again?
I love how this list includes multiple WTFs I said throughout the game as well. So many holes, inconsistencies and just bad story. I like the game but it was disappointing in execution.
1:09:15 That is a pretty big sin that I hadn't even thought that deeply about. If Dominants can sense other Dominants are alive by their aether, that really dilutes much of the first half of the game's story since Clive should have known Joshua was alive and visa versa for their entire lives following the events at Phoenix Gate. Another plot hole to the list.
Clive didn't have control of his powers as a Dominant until the fight with Titan. Likewise, it also seems like they can't feel another Eikon's aether until meeting them once they have control of their abilities.
Surprised you didn’t mention that even though Clive absorbs all those powers, he never uses them in cutscenes or is requested to use them as a solution for anything.
Great video, thanks for doing such good videos despite so much negative comments if you just pointing out terrible plot holes.
He does uses them. The plotholes me mención arent that problematic
@@bauloprete3905 outside of ultimate fight, gimme examples of him using them
@@fd5934When he becomes Ifrit Arisen he uses all 7 eleme- oh wait. He still only uses fire. Even though it's implied that form is meant to embody all the eikons Mythos has absorbed. Even Ultima seems to have a preference towards fire in how he fights and starts summoning bosses. When he puppets Typhon into absorbing Ramuh's staff, he doesn't use lightning attacks, just more blue fire. Fire is weirdly framed as the superior element in FFXVI, but it's never brought up in any way.
@@fd5934right after the second time skip he used ramuh to save some bearers held hostage and even uses the same line Cid used earlier in game when saving Gav on the cliff.
@@boebie5052 No he doesn't, he only uses it to steal Cid's identity. The moment the redshirts yell "It's Cid!" He immediately extinguishes it. Doesn't even use it in a cutscene to fry something.
This video was worth the wait, great stuff as always dart
@27:52 Also, the traditional Black Mages have been part of the FF franchise since the very beginning. I believe that was the intended reference here, not necessarily to FFIX.
The ending is very much left up to interpretation. And I'm wondering why you left out the part where Clive quite clearly heals Joshua, so...
The way that Jill just stood there for most of te game till the writers remembered that she was a character makes me think that in the early stages of development this was ment to have a party system but it was removed. Why was it removed you may ask? Because turn-based party RPGs are no longer popular in the maintream triple A market, so Square Enix tries to copy other titles instead of going for what made them popular in the first place. Square is still turning out great and iteresting traditional JRPGs but they are either dumped on the Switch and/or some back alley behind the Playstation and X-box stores with little to no marketing.
I’d like suggestions for some of these great traditional JRPGs please
@@loztpm Ones of the top of my head: Bravely Default 2 (the first game was released on the 3ds back in 2012) and Live A Live.
Good party systems are not solely owned by the turn-based genre.
Square has already proven this with Kingdom Hearts and FF7R. Even Stranger of Paradise was able to pull it off with what it had.
@@chrisdaughen5257 I'd honestly argue the opposite about Stranger of Paradise, and I say this as someone who loves that game to death and herald it as the best modern FF game. Stranger of Paradise has the weakest party system out of all the action-based titles in the series, while 7Remake most definitely had the best one (And I despise that game). Reason? Because you had near full-control of your party members in 7Remake while you had zero in SoP.
Turn-based combat is usually the best system to go with anyway when you have a game where you control multiple characters simultaneously.
@@TheCyclicGamerSoP did let you customize your party members. And you could command them to be more aggressive to draw aggro.
FFXVI did give your guest members unique abilities, but you couldn't control when they used them.
It's stranger with Torgal. He gets all these abilities when he awakens, but you are still limited to having him be a combo ender which you'll forget to use since you have so many other abilities.
The nitpicking is how I played the game. Don’t get me wrong. I really try to play a game and enjoy it before I have critique but omg this didn’t feel like FF to me. Just lore from the game included into it. No classes, the weapons didn’t feel like they made any difference, not playing the other characters, it just didn’t hit for me.
Always love to see your work fam keep it up
Final Throne May Cry
I really wish they would stop making these games under the Final Fantasy name and just start a new series with them. It wouldn't be so bad if they still implemented plenty of RPG elements but these are like 95% action with the only RPG aspects being mostly pointless side quests and leveling which both seem to only exist just to pad out playtime. Of course if it wasn't for the Final Fantasy name supporting them they probably wouldn't be as nearly as successful based on their own merits alone.
Also I freakin hate the meta references to the series name in this, whoever wrote them should feel so ashamed.
“More Roman numerals than the Super Bowl.”
How do we tell him?
Dartigan needs to voice a character in a game asap. My vote is for Mortal Kombat 1.
Clive has two party members, a lady and a dog, one you can give orders to and another you have sex with.
A good deed comparing Cid to Auron cause I 100% agree. They both have such great lessons to give I love them both
I know this has probably been mentioned already, but where are the subtitles? The framing seems weird without them, and your voice has such a low register that I struggle to hear what your saying occasionally. This is mostly my fault because I have a severe hearing loss. Still a great video though.😊
How could these soldiers be stealthy when all you can hear is leather squealing every time they move? Lol
This game would have been far more interesting to watch had they kept the Game of Thrones theme going.
I'm always a huge sucker for medieval politics - even inside fantasy worlds with magic and sh*t.
Especially when the politics actually reflect the magical nature of the world rather than being just medieval European politics pasted onto a fantasy realm. You can only have the bickering nobles ignore obvious magical threats for so long before it feels suicidally stupid.
I felt that Stackpole did a pretty good job in his Dragoncrown War series but I actually don't like Game of Thrones much.
@@brushdogart The in-game politics is what drew me in in the first place. But when you add literal gods fighting in your wars, what's even the point anymore? It's just like Dartigan pointed out.
@@joshyboy9804 Yeah, it's like in martial arts movies where you have fighters who are so powerful they can wipe out entire armies of regular soldiers without even being scratched. Why would a civilization waste resources on an army in those circumstances? Better to focus everything on attracting and supporting the best cultivators you can get. Martial arts schools would be state funded military investments!
It does make me appreciate the few writers who actually try to think about these sorts of things.
@@brushdogart It would have been far more interesting to see branded revolt against their master and form their own kingdom or something like that.
@@joshyboy9804 And more believable. With their level of magic power this should really be a story of normals trying to break free from slavery under a mageocracy.
“Meet Clive, the first ever ADULT protagonist in Final Fantasy History.”
WoL, Firion, Cecil, and Squall: *Wait, what?*
Squall is, by the very premise of the story, a teenager of age 17 (as he has to be a teenager to be in that mercenary group). Cloud, however, is 20 years old.
@@iantaakalla8180 21, but joined SOLDIER at 16…along with having his memory wiped.
@@iantaakalla8180 The events took place around his 18th Birthday.
Clive Basically said "i will be your final fantasy" then dies
Your best video yet mate! loved it , laughed all along the way 🤣
Ikr 😂😂😂
#1 Thing wrong with FFXVI: Its not a RPG.
The best game sins yet. It's as if your script magically overheard my phone calls to friends bitching about how this game starts off amazing and takes a pacing side quest nosedive after Cid dies and not to bother.
Now instead of ranting, I can send them this video. You captured my frustration with Jill the Bartender better than I ever could.
I am a completionist, and this game punished me for it by providing the most boring side quests I have ever experienced. I need to talk to Martha Again??? Why not remove 3 of her quests and give Jill some character development.
When my screen exploded in side quests at the end it felt like a punch in the face. I noped out of that. While I enjoyed Ultimas' character by the 20th final form, I was bored and done. I'm looking forward to a MUCH better game with FF7 Rebirth.
Poor baby I feel so bad for you having to suffer a video game
🙄
FINALLY. Dartigan we need the uploads
Games were better before it became mainstream. The exact moment games became bad is when The big bang theory show came to television. That show made nerd culture main stream. It made it cool to be nerdy. It made women who tended to follow whatever was the cool thing in a vacuous way, find nerd culture to be the new cool thing to start getting into. But as usual, this was all done in a half hearted, way simply to be part of the new "in crowd". Thus, video games are shallow and lazy to simply fulfill the mainstream nerdy is cool people who simply consume.
Exactly.
Why does everyone assume the "Clive's alive and took Joshua's name" is the default ending. When it's clear Clive revived him, and you can see clive turn to stone on the beach
Due to the side quests. It signifies that he would be alive.
Clive also narrates the story in his voice- and also wanted to write a book. He even got a pencil for it ☠️. Not to mention the side quests with Jill- it isn't the first time Clive took the name of someone to honour their legacy. It's also shown multiple times that just because you've got the curse, doesn't mean you're dead. All we see is that he's got it on his hand, just like how Cid had it on his arm but still didn't die.
Even in a Q&A, they specifically said its all symbolic. You can take it as you want- although if you've not done the sidequests, you're more inclined to believe Joshua survived. If you've done the sidequests, it's more likely that Clive survived. You can take it as you will.
@@skyaab yeah I mean anyone can think what they want, but Clive surviving is the more Farfetched ending.
@@xflashdanielx4700 It actually isn't if you play the side quests. I have played through the game without the side quests at first and strongly believed Clive died. After replaying it for Platinum trophy and doing all the side quests- I'm more on the "Clive Survived" team. It makes perfect sense as well in regards to what is mentioned.
@@skyaab my first playthrough I did all sidequests.
@@skyaab listen to my star and tell me the intended ending isn't for Clive to be dead.
The game started sooooo good then SE remembered is a japanese company in the second half of the game and drags the player to do npcs quests and killed the pace horribly
I feel like it's only that way because they're trying to shoehorn in enough "RPG elements" just to justify still calling it a Final Fantasy game since the name sells itself. They need to just stop and make these into their own series, especially now that they've lost most of their actual RPG elements.
Furthermore, they have Triangle Strategy, whatever Bravely Default is, and Octopath Traveler. They might as well drop Final Fantasy unless FFXVII is a proper Final Fantasy (though I will at least note a proper ARPG can count since Final Fantasy is now mostly ARPGs now.)
I really didnt like how this game didnt have elemental damage & enemies barely staggering
You bless us with another video, thank you🙏
why is this on the Game Sins channel? This is an interactive Movie.
waiting for cinemasins to release this exact video
Thank you Dartigan. I’m confused though, why is it so long? I would’ve thought a couple mins at most 😂
@Dartigan
What the...! You really outdid yourself this time, man! This is pretty much a movie. Well hats off to you. Respect and all that.
👏
Well, a game that is essentially a movie deserves a movie’s worth of noted shortcomings.
@@iantaakalla8180 Well noted. Somewhat ironic, all things considered.
3 greatest sins:
- outdated engine for a next-gen game, resulting in pathetic performance issues.
- lack of basic FF strategies like elemental damage and negative status.
- poor evolution and crafting systems.
and no party members to control, be invested in, or upgrade, except the stupid dog :(
@@yodoleheehoo90FF7CC had only one playable character and it was a true FF game in all aspects. Unlike, FF16...
Cris core was a spin off so it could get away with a unique battle system...this is a main line game that dosent even pretend it wants anything to do with class ff@lucbauer
@@lucbauer Square had NO excuse to make Clive the only exclusive character to play in 16, sure you play as Joshua twice, but really it's not his brother, it's the Phoenix, the whole game once you start to notice these slaps in the face to old school RPG fans, it's unplayable
it actually addressed everything i had issues against
Man that intro. He really read Square Enix for filth huh
1:05:16 this reminds me of Final Fantasy 13, when Barthandelus turned into Sera in front of the party to trick them...for literally no reason at all.
Barthandelus’ reason for doing that was to try and break there spirits so that one of them would become Ragnarok. Ultima did it to be weird
Please do "Crisis Core" and "Dirge of Cerberus".