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sorry if it came off as a bit of a roast, it's a sweet movie and the costumes weren't actually bad
hii karolina i was hoping if you would do a video on what was appropriate to wear when in one of your videos you said that there were some rules about which fabrics were "allowed" for an opera gown or when you could show shoulders and neck etc
karolina, a professional: some of them look 1830s, some of them look 1870, it’s really hard to see what they’re going for me, illiterate, mouth full of pizza in bed at 4 in the afternoon: yeah what a rookie mistake
If you look into the Reform Act or Women's suffrage in England you just get even more confused 🤣 40 years apart and they happen at the same time in the movie
Every movie with a corset they have to show how "painful" it was putting it on. 100 years from now when they do a period piece movie of 2020 there will be scenes of someone struggling to tighten their bra, in pain buttoning their pants and nearly in tears tying their shoes😂
@@Nataliejn LOL! I totally had that same thought right after I posted my comment. So ok maybe that's a little more accurate than the corset perception🤣
they'll be filming something in an "ambiguous 2000's era" and have someone dressed like 80's Madonna, Kurt Cobain, The Spice Girls, The Matrix leather and Billie Eilish
Women were often laced so tightly their breathing was restricted leading to faintness. Compressing the abdominal organs could cause poor digestion and over time the back muscles could atrophy. In fact, long term tight lacing led to the rib cage becoming deformed
As an Enola Holmes book reader, she wears her corset loose on purpose to stuff all her belongings in it and to be able to move more comfortably, aka it’s done on purpose :)
Yeah that's what I thought. And like her mother is clearly a feminist, she taught her daughter things at the time that were "meant for boys" so she was always kind of dressed slightly less feminine. she also doesn't see much other people besides her mother
I also mentioned this in my comment on modern gurlz' video but it's literally a plot hole that her costume is so inaccurate. The whole point of her dressing up like that is to be in disguise, so dressing so scandalously and out of the norm would have been a _terrible_ disguise. She should've been caught immediately.
ppl don't have a concept of what did and didn't count as Sexy in 1890 or whatever but that dress needed to come across to the audience as Sexy so i think it was a reasonable sacrifice 🤷 def could have been worse
I think what you missed from the quote is that she doesn’t just say “a corset a symbol of oppression” she says “a corset a symbol of oppression for those who are forced to wear it”. To me it’s the “forced to wear it” that changes the meaning, she’s not just dragging on corsets, she’s just dragging on being forced to wear them, she’s aware that when it’s a choice it’s not a problem. 😊
Yep! Plus the scene where the corset comes in handy really just puts in a subtle point of femininity being powerful in it's own way when chosen and desired.
However, back then it wasn't a "forced" idea. It was wearing under clothing no different from a bra is proper attire. There was no alternative, to go without was paramount to being naked. We can't apply modern thinking to day, to the thinking of the past. None of the clothes would have fot properly without a corset.
@@cantankeroushousewife2942 i think it's more that it's "forced" in a way that it's an expectation of women, just as bras are today. There's a lot of people that think not wearing a bra is sloppy, or "slutty," when obviously that's not the case. So while it's not literally forced, I think it's more speaking on the constructs women are expected to follow.
@@cantankeroushousewife2942 The alternative is to not wear a corset under their dress. The fact that that's considered "basically naked" _is_ evidence that it's a bit forced by society and looking "proper". For small-breasted women like myself, there's really no physical need to wear any type of support most of the time -- I can basically only feel the difference when I'm running down stairs. The only reason to wear a bra is because it wouldn't look socially acceptable otherwise... same thing with corsets back then. But yeah, I don't think the corset is a symbol of oppression or anything. What it is, however, is one aspect of how women's worth is greatly assigned based on appearance, which is an issue that is still prevalent to this day.
@@balaynganiyebe it's a strange period in time somewhere between the 17th century and 20th century that encompasses all yet none of the traits from this period of roughly 4 differening centuries.
sometimes when a 1990s movie does something painfully 90's i like to scream DATED and i need to make a habit of doing it for 18th and 19th century movies lmao
Lol imagine in a couple hundred years there’s a movie set in the 2020s and a fashion historian saying things like “No, moustaches and galaxy print is mid 2010s, you can’t mix it up with low rise jeans from the early 2000s what is this madness!”
I’m honestly okay with older characters wearing older fashions. I’ve seen so many older ladies wearing things that would belong in the 50s/60s. Not to mention the cost of keeping up with the changing styles. This means that poorer people would also be behind the times, fashion wise. Everyone in a movie wearing the same year’s fashion doesn’t check out for me. Granted, when has that ever happened? But I totally agree about when styles go “into the future”. Pick a date, don’t go past that!
OMG, I know some women like my Dad's ex girlfriend who has had the same hair cut and style since the 80s! I wonder who she even goes to that can do that feathering technique. Her layers go to the top of her head. She got breast cancer and lost all her hair to chemo and then as soon as it grew back enough got it layered the same way again..
Absolutely! When I did period costuming for theatre at uni that was rule number 1 for us. Younger characters are able to be PRESENT in their fashion sense, but never in the future. Also taking into account social movements and fashion that went along with that, and what those trends meant. Karolina mentioned Aestheticism and Art Nouveau and those are great examples! Older characters especially middle age and above might be dressed in older fashions, especially if it fits with their character - a stodgy older woman who's used to older styles might absolutely wear outdated clothes.
Here you had older conservative people wearing fashion of the future while some young and wealthy city dwellers were behind the rural folk. That is pretty much opposite to "wearing clothes appropriate to persons age and standing"
I liked how they did this with Maggie Smith's character in Downton. She seemed to veer more towards an older style of dress. People often like what they grew up with, and I felt that was a nice detail.
She also mentions that “dressing vintage” was not a thing at that time. Dressing vintage is a new thing that people have started doing, before it usually meant you were poor or out of touch with fashion. edit: sorry if this sounds mean or critical to the original comment. It wasn’t meant to!
I thought it was pretty while I watched the film. I couldn't pinpoint what was off about that dress until Karolina mentioned the bodice looking 18th century and the skirt, well, not. I still think it's pretty even if it's a weird mishmash. I did sit there while she wandered through the warehouse district in that and wondered what happened to hats, shawls, outerwear of any kind.
@UCSnBZ2XxR7_ekpmbC0CeaSw Off brand Karolina! Bernadette! Thou must be one who lives in sea (Sorry Posidon) to insult such an amazing and graceful person! Who might I say is a joy to this world and a friend of Karolina's!
Millie Bobbie Brown was the producer. There will probably be a follow-up film, so you should absolutely reach out to her, and offer your consulting services for the next Enola Holmes!! 🙂
Yeah that's the part that threw me off the most watching the movie. Right off the bat I was like, "Okay, she's 16, so we're in 1900 now!" and then literally everything else we saw contradicted that.
I noticed that the "corsets are opression" comments almost always come from well-off/upper class women. For people who do physically demanding labour, a well fitting corset is actually a godsend and helps a lot to alleviate back pain.
actually my sister struggles with back issues and she's been using a custom -made corset when at home because it trains your back to it's natural posture. It doesn't necessarily take away the problem but she says it really benefits her and helps her relax
I've actually watched a video today about why and how corsets "were killed". The author mentions two things that can be referred to both comments above: 1) as long as you had lots of long/heavy skirts, you kinda needed a corset because it put all that weight on a bigger surface of your waist and (I suppose) hips. Also before the bras era it was pretty much the only bust support kind of "device". Due to invention of bras, less/lighter skirts involved and some other factors (like WWI, apparently) corsets became less and less popular but never disappeared completely. 2) Corsets didn't really "die" and probably never will, apart from people who choose to wear them for many reasons, like aestethics, or them being attributed to feminity (somebody mentioned in the comment to that video that apparently many trans people wear it because it helps them achieve more feminine silhouette), there's e.g. medical "corsets" that take on lots of functional ideas of original corsets (my mom wore a medical one too, after back operation and she loved it and said it did help her get back in shape). So again, I guess corsets weren't that bad altogether.
Also corset its not too good, it can be good for some types of bacj pain but it is bad for the organs and your bone, some ppl cant even breath well with that
@@oof5740 That’s a myth, actually. Tightlacing was the damaging one, however it was also very rare, and the only reason why people today mistake tightlacing for proper corsetry was because back in the day people made such a big deal about it because they thought woman who did tightlacing were absolutely crazy, so there was a heap of documentation surrounding it. However you can also easily find proper reliable sources that debunk the myths surrounding corsetry with a little bit of research. Everyday woman wore corsets while horse riding, fencing, playing tennis, even hiking and so many other things. Corsets were designed to be well fitted to provide proper support so that woman could COMFORTABLY go about their everyday lives, corsets weren’t made to be very constrictive, and ESPECIALLY weren’t made to the point that it would cause a change to body shape. Obviously there was a lot of strict expectations surrounding what women should wear, and corsets definitely were part of it, but they were never supposed to be physically damaging like what you’ve stated.
In the books, Enola wore out of date clothing quite often. In addition, in the scene where she acquires the corset and red dress, she is in a used clothing shop so it makes sense that her clothing is out of date rather dramatically.
But out of date doesn’t excuse wrong time of day- that neckline isn’t a daytime neckline. It just seems as though the director was like “ah, just throw together a bunch of vaguely late Victorian stuff, no one will know the difference”. Except we do know the difference. And it stands out as being wrong.
YES THANK YOU Also she's been living in the countryside with an eccentric mother and has no idea what fashion is. All the clothes she wears when she's on the run and second hand and not made for her, which is why they look odd on her
Miss Violet Nightchild I feel like you’d know what is deemed inappropriate or appropriate at the very least, just by sheer common sense. Like today, you’d know a cocktail dress isn’t for like, going to the office...
Me: not knowing absolutely nothing about historical fashion Also me: ahhh yes 20 minutes of Karolina explaining the difference between 1890 and 1880 fashion
I can't wait til we're so far in the future that when a movie is set in the 90s, they're gonna be wearing poodle skirts, crochet halter tops, feathered hair, and yeezys.
I mean a lot of shows right now sometimes do like a mix of eras. Sabrina does like a mixture of 60s and modern clothes, a lot of shows have been doing a 2020s take on the 90s on some characters with more normal 2020 clothes on background characters. I mean 30 years ago was the 90s. Do you still wear some of the same clothes? We still wear jeans though the style depends on what you have in your closet (I probably have more bootcut jeans than some people as I bought a ton in the early 2000s and only buy a new pair like every 2-3 years), chokers are back in style, some people are still doing leggings and long tops or boho skirts or have been doing flannel for like 15 years. Not everyone is always wearing the newest most fashionable thing
May I point out the NSFW-scene-if-you're-a-victorian-being: She brings the young man to her room. Alone. Without a chaperone. And they sit on THE SAME BED. THE INDECENCY. Edit: Yeah, she might not know how to behave, BUT THE BLOKE MOST CERTAINLY DOES BECAUSE HE IS AN EDUCATED INDIVIDUAL
I was wondering how she snuck him up there even. And then they were discussing SHARING the room? Like that's not okay then and if adults are around it's not okay today.
Don’t forget her chemise and drawers are just out and about in that scene and they hardly even address it except for her getting very slightly embarrassed. Even in the 21 century if a man is coming into my space the first thing I do is hide my bra (assuming I left it out that is)
Pretty sure the point is that Enola has no idea what you’re meant to do in social situations cause her mother never taught her and she lived in isolation.
Melissa Okeke you could be onto something with that, but also in the beginning of the movie remember she is in her chemise and drawers with her brothers and Mycroft tell her like “no you really shouldn’t be doing that” so it’s not as if she’s completely unaware even if it was just her and her mom before. And I’m sure she would have had some concepts of propriety based on the books she read as it mentions her reading a lots. Even if she was completely unaware, Tewksbury definitely wasn’t, and he should have put the kibosh on it right away.
@@nickelpickled who do you think were forced to wear corsets? Historically corsets were just underwear that makes you look good, who wouldn't want to wear it on that period of time?
I totally get that the outfits are not historically accurate, but I think some of the era shifts in fashion reflect what the movie is trying to say about the characters. Eudoria’s costumes show how against the grain of typical society she was. Edith’s costumes are more modern, reflecting her characters progressive, ahead of her time beliefs. The old fashioned costumes of the dowager reflect her characters zealotry for preserving the legacies of the past. Makes for very inconsistent fashion timeline, but consistent characterization!
I was thinking this same thing while Karolina gave dates for each of their costumes! Rather than a critique of the costumer, it seems like a clever concept that they snuck in!
100% agree! I was about to comment this when I saw your comment. And when she was talking about the scene where the women were in a meeting and how they all looked like different time period I felt like it made sense as an artistic choice: the older ladies had an older style (~1830 I think she said?) and the younger looking ones had a style closer to 1870s). Seems logical since some people may not always follow the trends and instead just keep a rather similar fashion over the years. Idk 🤔😊
I think it makes perfect sense that the hair on the ladies in the meeting scene are all over the place. Some of the ladies are quite a bit older, and it would make sense they are sticking with the hairstyles that were 'in' when they were younger. I don't see much older ladies rocking the newest hairstyles, why would it be different in 1880. Another thing is the dated outfit of Holmes home maid. Considering the state of the house, it would be quite suitable for the maid and the charactets there to be in outdated clothes. Even if they had newer outfits available, they probably wouldn't wear them daily, but would keep them for special occasions...? Just makes some sense to me for that bit of the costumes to be all over the place.
same as the boy clothing.. Sherlocks is not necessarly accurate but the servant boy is. his clothes are most likely from an older brother or father so it would be an old fashioned style.
Actually the hair is what drove me most crazy. In that it was almost always showing with all women of all stations. Wrong, wrong, wrong. This film had a noticable lack of hats and gloves. Hats and gloves were manditory attire for middle and upper class women through the 1950s for Sunday church attire. They also need to really decide if Enola is a young girl, hair down, or a young woman, hair up.
@@wildcrocus The story of the books (the movie is really inaccurate to them by the way) is that Enola starts as a sort of wild young girl, probably keeps her hair down, and ruins her white dresses(not full length). She turns 14 at the start of the book. Her brothers force her to dress like a young lady, and then she just keeps doing that, to help her disguise herself. So she starts as a young girl, and becomes a young lady to hide from her brothers. In one of the later books (the second? I cant remember.) she says "... When I was 13 going on 10 instead of 14 going 30", so that implies that she had to grow up fast. Also in the books she REALLY does not want to dress up like a boy, because 1. its too obvious and 2. she's not comfortable wearing pants. So why is that the FIRST thing she does in the movie????? That wasnt really relevant but who cares.
I wanted to say, because it seems like you might have missed the second line after the first thing she says about the corset. I too was dreading an anti-corset message in this movie, but how they end up portraying it isn't actually anti-corset in my opinion. The full quote of what she says in the shop when buying the outfit is "the corset: a symbol of repression to those who are *forced* to wear it. But for me, who *chooses* to wear it, the bust enhancer, and the hip regulators, it will hide the fortune my mother has given me" and she puts it on with a smile, happy with the way it moves and how she can hide money in it. She has no problem with the corset the first time she puts it on, and doesn't seem all too upset about it, even getting excited when it saves her life after being stabbed. Later, when she's in the school, and her choices are taken away, despite the fact that the second corset is likely more comfortable, she struggles and is angry about having to wear it because it's no longer her choice. She isn't struggling later on because she hates the corset, it's because her choice in the matter was taken away when she was sent to the school. In my opinion, the two corset scenes are a commentary on how her choices were removed and not a commentary about how corsets are torture devices.
YEEEES! I, too could hear the sound of Karolina screaming in the distance at the first bit of that line, but the second line, and the way she proceeds to do jiu jitsu while still in the corset, and how the corset is later shown as extremely useful bc it saves her from getting stabbed all made me feel like the actual message is that the corset itself is not opressive, but rather the reasons why you might be forced into one
I love how in the beginning of the movie mycrosoft asks enola where are her gloves, because a lady must wear them, and then through the whole movie I haven't seen any woman wear a glove once
Ines Furtado me too. I tried telling people that the myths about corsets are false and they got mad at me. One lady said a closet made her fat, which is funny cause a corset movers your fat to the back. So it was just her own fat lol
hannah H-M I would have loved that line way more if she hadn’t spent a lot of the movie saying “And I’m the only one who does everyone else is just forced to” Still loved loved loved the movie but those bits were a little annoying
@@pollyflores418 ... did she? I saw it just a few days ago, and I don't remember anything like that. The only time I remember her even implying that corsets are a problem is when she's in the school, and that's pretty obviously not about the corsets but about the fact that she literally does not have a choice, she's just as negative about the rest of her weird black and white school outfit.
Henry Cavill is 37, but playing a "younger" Sherlock, so probably closer to 30. We know Sherlock Holmes was born in 1857, so the movie probably should take place in the mid 1880s. The Anglo-Afghan War ends in 1880, putting the Marquess' father's death sometime before 1881 when his uncle would have returned from the war. The reform bill talked about should be either the 1884 Representation of the People Act (this was debated/passed in the late fall/winter) or the 1885 Redistribution of Seats Act (passed in early summer, so probably the more likely candidate). The issue comes with the suffragettes, who would not begin violent protests in the real world until the late aughts, though they were around in the 1880s.
@@zhoradaiyu5184 if that's true, the remark on the Afghan war implies the Marquess is only 3 or 4 when his father dies. The book series has Sherlock 20 years older than Enola, so she should be born around 1877, placing the year as 1893 and Sherlock as 36, which would be the age of Cavill. In conclusion, the movie took extreme liberties with timelines either way. Haha
the movie is indeed in 1884, when sherlock read a newspaper in the begging of the movie it shows the date and is 1884 (maybe its 1885, I don't recall exactly)
Hearing about fashion from the time is really interesting, but it makes me glad I don't know all this stuff myself. Instead I can watch a period piece movie and live in ignorant bliss thinking "wow that's a pretty dress" and that is all
I can't watch any medical tv shows because of the constant inaccuracies. And those similar to The 100.... Scientifically so inaccurate 😂 can't watch without getting infuriated and yelling at those shows😂
@@morganeharvey332 I can't take movies seriously anymore that have any of those fake corsets are bad scenes. I wear one everyday at work and the only thing about pain is that I don't have lower back pain anymore.
@@TemariNaraannaschatz I'm really curious about wearing corset to inrpove posture/decrease lower back pain. Could you please elaborate on that, like what kind of corsets you wear etc?
@@hareema4442 I started off with a really cheap one with plastic boning from amazon as an accessory and after I noticed how much better my back felt I invested in some of better qualitly and switched to stronger boning. I'd reccoment getting something softer at first that breaks in faster. At first don't wear it for the whole day, just an hour to see what it feels like and then wear it more until it's broken in (aka it fits your body, like breaking in shoes). My personal most worn corset is also from amazon which I got last summer because I wanted one I was able to wear even when it's really hot. And it has some netting inbetween the boning which makes it airier. But that's just a personal preference. I would say get a cotton corset, linen is good too, but costs way more. Just get a breathable material and wear something underneath. I generally wear my normal cotton undershirts so nothing gets sweaty. And I only have to wash my corset once a week. In general for a first corset I'd suggest something out of a natural material with soft plastic boning (steel boning or hard plastic boning is good, but if you're not used to wearing corsets it's too much) and make sure whereever you buy it has a good measuring scale. Ignore anything that says S/M/L/Xl etc. Look for your body measures and go for that. And don't buy waist-trainers, they aren't made for back support but for waist stinging which is nothing you want to do. Most corsets come pre-laced and at the start I'd just leave it in, even when washing, just adjust to the measures to your body. (I'm someone which a wider hip and small chest, so I always get one that's fitting on the waist and then get it really tight to fit my chest and more loose on the bottom for my hips.) I'd also say that you shouldn't make it too tight at first. The practical thing about corsets is that you can ajust them, so if you eat something you can make them wider, but also if you notice they are loose you can just tighten them. And price isn't everything. I have some really cheap corsets that fit me super well and I can wear for hours and I have a couple of expensive onse that I rarely wear due to the fit. Your body is what you have to take into consideration on this. And for the medical part of corsets: Corsets stop you from being in bad ways. You can't really hunch over or get your back complelty hollowed out (I mean you can do both but it gets uncomftbable really fast and you stop it. So streching works just fine.) so you don't stay in bad positions for long. That way your back remains straighter and that reduced the pain, mostly in the middle to lower back (but I mostly wear underbust corsets due to my small chest, I don't know how well full bust corsets work on the upper back due to experience, but I know that they distribute the weight of the chest evenly so it will definitly help quiet a lot.) You can still do everything in a corset. I work in a labor job the whole week and I can carry everything, bend over etc. just fine. I can run in them and all. If properly worn you won't notice that you're wearing a corset at all. And after a while you stop bening in shapes you shouldn't bend your back because it's bad for you on your own without your corset reminding you not to do it. Which is a nice side effect. I hope that helped, if you want to know anything else, let me know =)
I think they were actually sending a bit of a message with some of the clothes. A lot of the older people are wearing older fashions, being more traditional and stuck in the past- whereas a lot of the younger women who were fighting for their vote are wearing the later era clothes- looking to the future, stepping away from the previous eras.
I think you're exactly right, especially with the woman of colour who is a café owner wearing "future" clothes. If the corset scene is as big as it sounds, it makes sense that clothing would be used to say something thematically as opposed to historical accuracy, which is way more forgivable than giving in to the "modern sensibilities" thing.
I'm one of the girls you mention in the film and we did so many shots that day looking at different items from the dress shop. The crinoline in the shop is probably the set designer's fault not a costume designer fault. There were up to 200 extras on set that day and a lot of them were in crinoline, some had bustles... Appreciate they don't all match up in the shot or time wise but it's probably hard to find that many matching costumes out there. :)
I know, right? :) Especially after she had earlier described them as some sort of bondage to woman, only for it to end up being the very thing that saved her life, later. Corsets are such a gorgeous part of Victorian fashion, and as someone who owns a corset, they're not half as restricting as actors so often try to make them out to be! :)
In the books, her corset becomes an integral part of her wardrobe for the rest of the series! It also goes into detail how she uses the space for padding to hide extra disguise pieces and make herself look older (than 14, her book age).
@@panda31415 That's really cool! I actually haven't read the books, but ought to! I actually hadn't heard of them, before Netflix announced the movie, but now I'm quite curious about the books! :)
but weirdly they pulled the trope again with the lord. I was like "ahhhh it would have made sense if he was there to see the corset trick, or she told him about it!" but now its just pulling the same trick twice.
First: Karolina is fabulous and I feel like a lot of this is spot on if we look at the costumes only in the context of historical accuracy and don’t try to bring much character or narrative context into it. Someone a few posts down also said this, but the whole corset tightening scene may not have been the result of preconceived notions about corsets and Hollywood-type agendas. It looked to me like they were showing the difference between how a scenario can exist with and without consent. When she chooses to wear the corset, it is a thing of joy and engagement for her. It is empowering. When she is forced to wear a corset, it is something that she (literally) struggles with. I also wondered if it wasn’t the kind of situation where: when I go to put on a bra and I am in a usual headspace, it is an easy task but when I am already stressed out and anxious, the task becomes much more annoying and harder. Also, I don’t know if that quote counts as “an overtly anti-corset quote”. She is the daughter of a militant suffragist, so it is entirely possible that she heard that growing up. And the full quote does say that it is oppression for those who are forced to wear it but for those who choose it it provides opportunities. Again we’re talking about consent and how it is and isn’t a thing for (young) women in society. The society being perfectly accurate in its norms may not best serve the point for its intended demographic.
it's like how for some women wearing bras is extremely helpful and useful, but it is the fact that women are "forced" to wear it by society anyways, or else they would be called sluts, messy, etc.
@@dan.a77 yeah, lots of women don't want to wear bras at all, or they want to wear sports bras but they have to wear underwire bras when they go to work and other public places
@@no_peace Yeah- and Enola was probably free-boobing it under a shift or two when it was just her, her mom and the maid so no wonder it seems like an effort to be expected to wear a corset. I know that quarantine has made the concept of wearing shoes somewhat irritating
I feel like in a lot of period movies, they'll give certain characters pants/boy clothes in a way to make them more forward thinking, or "not-like-other-girls." As if being feminine and wearing skirts is somehow not forward thinking. Like, Tina in Fantastic Beats, for example.
I really appreciated the moments in this film when they combined femininity with power. Helena Bonham Carter's character exclusively wore dresses and was feminine and had typically "feminine" pursuits like painting tiny flowers and having tea with her ladies. At the same time she was powerful, in control, leading the group, and managing her estate. Enola didn't put on trousers and a cap to do physically demanding things and be strong, she did those things in dresses and wore men's clothing as a disguise. Obviously that's not the case in every film, but I appreciated it in this one.
I don't blame then honestly, they just do what the public wants. On one side you have people who aprecciate femininity and on another you have woman who don't want any of it, it's just a lot o mixed signals.
Yeah but to be fair- the first time she dresses as a boy to look like a boy as a disguise, like that’s the point- same with the second two times- she knows people are looking for a girl- because she’s a girl- so she dresses as a boy to divert attention, it’s not really anything to do with sexism. She’s literally just disguising herself
Dominic Sidaway my big issue with that is that in the books she makes a point of saying she’ll never dress as a boy. She dresses as a beggar woman and all sorts of convincing female disguises, but never a boy. So here the writers directly go against her written personality when they just as easily could have put her in a female disguise.
as for the timeline - sherlock tells enola that she had a pincone on a string that she called dash, after queen victoria's dog, dash, when she was a little girl. enola is too young to remember this, so she was maybe 3 or 4? the real dash died in 1840. enola is 16 years old in the movie, so at the most you can add 13 years to 1840, arriving at 1856. BUT THEN: i googled it and google says it takes place in 1884. AND autombiles were not introduced in england until 8 years LATER. wow. it really was all over the place. lol. but i still enjoyed the movie.
There's no reason Enola couldn't have named her pinecone after the dog Queen V had in the past, no matter how long ago that was. Victoria was still the queen and Enola might well have been interested in what the queen's life was like as a young girl.
@@Luanna801 i agree with you. after listening to the clothing descriptions being so much later and seeing that the car was not introduced until almost the end of the century, i figured this must be the case. i am sure lots of little girls were interested in what QV must have been like as a young girl and queen. i know i am and its more than 200 years later and i'm, by far, no longer a young gir. lol
So erm... speaking of "corsets are actually really good", I strained my lower back really bad. I was in total agony and had to get pain meds from my doctor. I remembered what Karolina said about corsets helping with back problems. I put on my expensive custom tailored corset and it actually helped the pain!!!!
@@honeybee3317 Yep! If they are well fitted to your body they can do wonders for back pain. I wouldn't just go buying any corset if you suffer from back pain as the wrong one for your body could do more harm than good, but properly fitted and with appropriate medical advice if necessary and it can be a great asset.
Women were often laced so tightly their breathing was restricted leading to faintness. Compressing the abdominal organs could cause poor digestion and over time the back muscles could atrophy. In fact, long term tight lacing led to the rib cage becoming deformed.
@@oof5740 Nope! Not at all true. Corsets only restrict the waist and NOT the ribcage so don't cause restricted breathing enough to cause fainting in the slightest. Fainting was more likely to be due to wearing many layers of warm clothing, but even then, most "fainting" when written about was of ladies at dances. There are etiquette books from the time which teach ladies the polite way to get out of awkward social interactions and one of those ways was to pretend to faint. That would allow the lady's friends to take her aside so she can avoid the conversation (such as some guy she's not interested in asking to marry her or something, it was rude just to say no). You don't get stories of the cleaning maids fainting despite spending all day from the crack of dawn to the end of the night scrubbing and running the household whilst corseted (because they wore corsets too!). Plenty of modern corset wearers choose to tightlace, for example Cathy Jung tightlaces down to 15", yes fifteen inches, and has no ill effects whatsoever. That measurement is way below what Victorian women wore, with the vast majority of corsets falling within the 22"-28" range (with natural waists being on average reduced no more than 2-4", so the range of natural waists being 24" to 32" for the average). Cathy is still able to hold her body up fine without the corset on even though she wears one every single day for 23hrs a day. The one hour out of the corset she spends washing and exercising (she is particularly fond of ocean swimming and she's past her 70s by now I believe so she's not a spring chicken). Victorian women by comparison wore their corsets purely to support their clothing (it was heavy) and breasts and to provide a smooth silhouette during the day and they removed them in the evenings to go to bed. And they were still able to function just fine. And contrary to popular misconceptions, corsets are not rigid structures, especially not ones made to Victorian methods. Most corsets were made of a single layer of fabric, those made of two layers had the second be just a lining. Then the main stiffener was whalebone for a lot of the time and that's actually filters from the mouths of baleen whales which is made of the same stuff as our fingernails. It responds well to body heat and becomes very flexible. Then towards the end of the era they were using steel, but even those bones were a lot more flexible than what you find in modern corsets as we just don't make the steel as high quality any more so it can't be made into as thin strips as it was. They were also narrower than modern steel bones being roughly 3mm to 4mm wide rather than the smallest easily available today is 5mm wide. In off the rack corsets, the bones are 7mm wide. Oh and some corsets just used cording which is lengths of string basically. And other stuff. Only there to provide vertical support so the fabric doesn't just roll down. What else? Ah yes, the rib cage deformity. Now sure the Victorians wore their corsets from their teens, but unless there is something very wrong with your genetics, the bones aren't going to be reshaped by wearing a garment which is only worn snugly over the rib area. You can do some "reshaping" with a corset in that the muscles which hold the ribs in place can allow them to move, however this effect is not permanent and when you take the corset off, the ribs return to their natural position. The real reason there were rib cage deformities found a lot? Well the medical professionals learning more about how bodies worked learned by cutting up corpses. Rich people didn't want that happening, so they used the bodies of the poor. Those who were more likely to have suffered from malnutrition throughout their lives so the deformity was mostly from that - they grew like that. The deformities were actually seen in equal numbers in men and women even though it was only the women who were wearing the corsets for the most part (richer men may have, but it would have been less likely for the poor men to have done so). The medical people also liked to claim that corsets would do things like cut a liver almonst in half if laced too tight. However what they were actually observing there was a phenomenon where the liver develops with lobes. This occurs today too in people who are totally healthy and who have never worn a corset ever. Its just a thing that sometimes happens. Lots of stuff was blamed on corsets. Even tuberculosis was blamed on corsets which we now know was caused by a bacteria. Funnily enough, the bacteria likes to hang out in the very bottom of the lungs and it was actually seen that those wearing corsets (which do change how you breathe - you breath with the top part of your lungs more than the bottom part and they compensate by getting larger further up if you corset from a young age) had fewer cases of infection because it didn't get as far in as it needed to really set up home. So to limit the spread through militrary men, corsets were actually recommended as a means of prevention. Obviously it was a 100% preventative, but it did seem to make a difference. Which pissed off some of the doctors who were trying to prove corsets were evil because they couldn't wrap their heads around why women might like to keep their breasts supported....
Me: Sees Lady Tewksberry’s dress in the train station scene Me: Ha! Look at that natural-form-looking, unfashionable, two-years-behind trollop! My Mom sitting next to me: 👁👄👁
At the beginning of the movie when she’s introducing herself they show her as a baby with “Me at age 0” and “1884” written on the screen. So if she was born in 1884 and Sherlock says she is sixteen, then it’s somehow supposed to be 1900, which makes zero sense with the costuming choices they made...
The problem was the grandmother wore a more fashionable "modern" dress than the mother. So, the exact opposite than what you stated. This movie was all over the place with fashion.
I could see discrepancies in Enola’s dress boiling down to the fact that her mom is a super feminist and probably didn’t force her to wear what was “proper dress.” Because she isn’t taught what she “should” wear, and like Sherlock said she’s not very street smart, I could imagine every shopping trip she goes into a shop and is like “cool this is pretty” but not knowing how to put it on, what it should look like, etc. struggling with the corset is along the same line, she’s not used to doing the things and doing them alone is hard. Her moms clothing I could also see being a hodge podge because she’s all “F- society” and, like other people said, the random assortment of clothes on other people could be because people dress in different decades all the time. I get the inconsistencies Karolina talks about, these are just my thoughts.
@@kadibookalways There IS a series (a trilogy) of books with a Very similar idea, called "Mapmakers" (The 1st one is "The Glass Sentence"), in which time broke across different eras and maping out time across the world becomes a profession!
For once it's not a total disaster....wish the next movie if this franchise keep it up or even better not fall into the few mistakes they did in this movie
it was pretty confusing thinking the costumes were decent but then again i had dropped my bar way low after trying and failing to find something worth watching
It seems to me that most of the actual costumes were pretty good, it was just that there was no uniform era, even within a single dress. And the corset "opPResiOn," of course.
This show was so good. Wish more ppl had watched it, shame it was cancelled. Netflix darn you, there was room for two kick ass period drama girls, Anne and Enola. Sigh 😔
i remember during the fight scenes thinking like “at least she’s not acting like she’s suffocated by her corset”; it was nice to not have that hammered in like every other movie featuring them
It confused me when she like had to justify a corset as part of her disguise. I think that would be like if a contemporary character justified wearing a bra as part of her disguise.
Because she's proto feminist. Most people wouldn't relate to their fights if they didn't know the context well, which they aren't going to explain in a fun movie. So they throw speak points from other past feminists, namely the second wave, to reminisce of an old but relatable feminism. Burn all the bras!!! It was her first time wearing it. If a 16 year old was wearing a bra for the first time, she would definitely comment on it.
She's a child. A whalebone corset would be new for her at this stage of her life. She has dressed more as a country girl (a wealthy country girl) and changing to what was more high fashion would be restrictive. It's definitely bulkier and heavier and that does have an impact. Not to mention, lots of people find bras really uncomfortable. I'd only wear one for dressing up or a sports bra for high intensity sport.
It's more like if you've always worn a sports bra switching to a pushup bra. It's not hurtful but it is less comfortable and you would only wear it for putting on a show
lets ficks yeah, as a 16 year old it would be more accurate to wear a corded corset but since she’s dressing to look older, it’s not necessarily wrong. And they use it as a plot device which wouldn’t have worked with a corded or lighter corset.
excuse me, free the nipples is very serious business to me, if you ever catch me in a bra, you better bet that I have a good reason at the ready.... Oh no, wait, big tiddies, back pain, bras are actually good and helpful oops
I think the costumes being all over the place is actually acceptable on account of how every 15 minutes she offers somebody money to swap clothes with her.
Also, this is a “Netflix original” only because it was released on Netflix as opposed to the original plan to release it in movie theaters. Netflix acquired the rights later because that release was canceled due to ye old plague. They did not make the movie, which is a good thing in this case.
Tbh having watched the movie on Netflix it was a sweet movie, but at the end of the day it felt that it was a made for TV movie anyway. I definitely would not have paid cinema prices to see it!
@@sofia_rms I agree; I was very surprised to find it wasn't made by Netflix, it has strong A Series of Unfortunate Events vibes with the styles of filming and storytelling!
Historybounders: wHaT about ThE cOsTuMeS?! aRe ThEy AcCuRaTe? Dress Historians: no... but yes? But no. Me: why is no one talking about the plastic shotgun shells?
Ok, this movie had me in unexpected tears when Enola went to see her little lord before he went to vote. It is a very sweet and fun movie, but holy cow were these costumes all over the place. I think what probably happened is the team over the extras probably knew their stuff and researched from pictures of 1880s street crowds, but the team over the main wardrobe probably just cherry picked from a box labelled "Victorian" lol. Also, I would love to see you do an analysis on the costumes for Penny Dreadful. Eva Green wore so many beautiful pieces in that show!
I think the costumes department just raided the studio's costumes storage, took whatever moderately resembled 18th-19th century and mixed and matched a lot.
The Noobest Girl: I thought the exact same thing. This is not the movie a studio would want to invest in a lot of newly made period appropriate garments.
I watched Enola Holmes yesterday and I was thinking "I wonder if Karolina will make a video about the costumes?" and the fact that you did just made me so happy
now i just want someone to have fun unpicking the bizarre journey of enola holmes accomplishing nothing, really, normally i'd just have fun watching someone else have fun hating on something, but i tried to have fun lovingly hating on something all by myself and my in-brain editing just aint cutting it
You aren't saying the full quote. She said it's bad if you're forced to wear it. She doesn't like when she's forced to wear it but in the movie, when she gets to choose to wear it, she's happy
Purple Heart it really annoys me that everyone is just saying the first part of what she said and getting angry over it but if they actually looked at the second part of what she said they would realise that they are wrong and she said something truthful and most people would agree with it
but “a corset a symbol of oppression for those who are forced to wear it”. I think it's "forced" in a way that it was an expectation of women, just as bras are today. There's a lot of people that think not wearing a bra is sloppy, or "slutty," when obviously that's not the case. It was same with women who didn't wear a corset under their dress. The fact that that was considered "basically naked" is evidence that it's a bit forced by society. But the thing is for small-breasted women like myself, there's really no physical need to wear any type of support most of the time, still if I live in that time I have to wear corset so it is oppressive.
Kinda wanna know about what you think of the costumes in "Anne with an E". I really love the clothing in the series, but I dont know if its even accurate.
me, a lesbian, utterly uninterested in man's clothes unless a woman is wearing them: the whose clothes? na but seriously male fashion is actually really interesting
A lot of people are saying its set in 1900, but the latest 'reform act' before (older) women's suffrage in 1918 was in 1884 which would fit with Karolina's timeline. Honestly I think its just vaguely late 19th century and if thats the goal I think they used the costumes well to tell us about the characters.
I guess this fashion nonsense makes more sense from a storytelling / character design point of view 😂: using fashion from several decades at once gives you more options at making the characters more unique and match the looks with their personalities (and make them stand out better from the extras), and it also makes the viewer not being able to pinpoint an exact decade (on purpose), which in fiction I'd say is a relatively common thing. Doesn't mean I don't enjoy the roast 🤣🤣
The corset scenes are to reflect how she feels in society. 1st corset scene: assumptions about females in society, feels oppressed 2nd corset scene: realizes that corsets themselves are not oppressive, rather it's WHY we choose to wear them. She didn't feel oppressed because she wore it for her and realized that other women do the same. Thus busting her assumption. 3rd corset scene: Is being forced to wear a corset, so the scene is painful to show how something so beautiful (and useful) can become a chain when used improperly. Final dress scene: she is, presumingly, wearing a corset again, but is free, dressing for herself rather than others. Thus the light colored fabric and undone hair.
Yes. And I’m with you. What I can’t figure is how she got into the first corset - unless the shop lady laced it and she just stayed in it, (was it the same day when she got stabbed?) but she can’t seem to figure how to lace the softer one.
@@lynn858 I think we can think about it like a tantrum. You can make a sandwich, but when you're angry/sad/depressed all of a sudden you are unable to open a bag of bread. Enola was very distraught in the scene, thus the corset was impossible to put on.
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I really don’t think people watching it and believing corsets are torture devices will take the time to analyze it like that 😭
To be fair, the whole quote is, "A corset, a sign of oppression for those _forced_ to wear it. For me, a good place to hide my mother's fortune." and the context is Enola is being forced into traditional female roles she wasn't interested in. In the end, though, she wears corsets while protecting herself and realizes their practicality.
Karolina Żebrowska True that school scene was... questionable, I choose to ignore it for my mental health. Love to self care🥰✨If someone asks I’ll deny it ever happened
@ the thing is though, aren't they explicitly saying that she HAS to lose a particular amount of inches around her waist when they first measure her at home? Maybe they are making her lace herself too tightly and that is why she is struggling? Or is that impossible with a corded corset? Just thinking out loud here
In the opening of the movie it shows she was born in 1884. Her mother disappears when she turns 16 so it would be 1900. I also think some of the costumes that don’t fit the time period were because people would often buy a good dress and wear it for many, many years. So not everyone would be wearing up to the minute fashion. Just my thoughts. I love everything you do!! You have opened a whole new world to me with the vintage looks and grwm’s from different periods.
Yes, I approached this movie (mainly because of the trailer) expecting it to be somewhat post-modern, kind of like A Knight’s Tale. So nothing seemed weird to me, lol.
The periods of the clothing seemed kind of symbolic too. The suffragettes dressed either ahead of their time or in an eclectic manner that disregarded societal expectations. Enola dressed behind the times when she was pushing herself into the "lady" mold, but ahead of the times when she dressed more comfortably.
The issue with the Enola Holmes books is that we are never told exactly when the series takes place. We know that it takes place after Watson moves out of 221B to live with his wife. Which they supposedly (Doyle never gave us a real date) got married in 1887. We also can assume the story takes place before "The Final Problem" as Enola and others make no mention of Sherlock faking his death which happened in 1891. It also has to be before 1894 as that is when Mary is supposed to have died, allowing Watson to move back in with Sherlock. (Since in one book Enola meets Mrs. Watson) Which could be the reason for the confused costuming. Or I am thinking too much into it. haha Also to be noted is that the reason why in the BOOKS Enola hates corsets at first (and later comes to love) is because her first encounter with one is at the age of 14 (her age in the books) and was tight-laced by her nasty headmistress. When she runs away she takes her mother's old widow clothes as her disguise instead of a boy's clothes. She thought dressing as a boy was too obvious.
At the very beginning of the film, the scrapbook montage shows Enola was born in 1884, and she turns 16 at the beginning of the film. For this adaptation, at the least, the action is set in the summer of 1900.
Fun fact about the corsets from the books - she chose the "older" looking clothes because she had to look at least 22 years old to get around London independently even though she was just a teenager. The book also talks about how she chose to wear her first whalebone corset loose so that she could use the gaps to store ALL KINDS of things in (I'm talking ropes, daggers, cash, first aid, snacks - it's w i l d. They only ever show the cash being stored there in the movie) The crinolines may also be a shoutout to one of the books - "The Cryptic Crinoline", which (no spoilers) involves a crinoline in the plotline :)
you must be forgetting the fact that Karolina is an immortal being who resides in past, present, and future. she is simply a older version of Milly Bobby Brown from an alternate reality.
Could the headmistress look like that because she was VERY conservative and thought the modern corset's curves be too promiscuous? That's the vibe i got from her while watching
Similarly, I am wondering if some of the strange choices in costume were to convey individual characteristics to modern audiences who largely don't have the historical context for the choices to be strange. Like the headmistress, her look is more severe and rigid and is older fashioned than many of the other characters while were she 'real' as a woman of means and social standing at the time, she would be keeping up appearances and striving to be up to date. Instead this vibe tells audiences who she is as a character and establishes her role in the story. Where as the women of the reform movement are hyper modern for the time? Or maybe it's just not cohesively made and I'm reading to much into it.
@@ScribblerILM that is the same conclusion I've made!! Cause they definitely made at least *some* research, and as an animation student, I can't help but see the story-telling side of the costumes as well, shapes are essential to establishing a character's personality to an audience, and I am amazed at how they were able to do so with historic clothing!!
That’s the impression I got. I think a lot of the costumes are a mismatch of time periods, but for the headmistress in particular I think the choice makes sense - making her costume straight & stiff looking is something we’d do in theatre too lol
Hi @Clara. No, there's a part in the movie where the headmistress is taking Enolas measurements, finding them not "curvy" enough, but specifically says they are going to fix her with padding. So looking curvy, feminine and attractive was part of the curriculum.
I was also thinking when she said about the woman with the teacup in the beginning that it was a way older style, wouldn't that be because she is way older than the other ones and those woman don't have the finances to change style often or just feel like the modern styles aren't right or something? I mean I'm no expert ofcourse, not even a novice but the age difference and accompanied style difference seems logical to me
I would love to see your opinions of the fashions in the Little House on the Prairie book series. It’s set in the 1870s to 1880s, and I loved the descriptions of the clothes they had. Especially the polonaise dresses. The illustrator got a lot of detail into those pages, especially considering that it was 50 years later, and I’d love to see your opinions. And maybe the television show too because the mix of eras would definitely bother you.
The reason why everything with the crinoline's was so ACTIVELY frustrating to me, is that they show that the creators didn't even pay much attention to what they were adapting. The second-to-last book is called "the Cryptic Crinoline" And part of the reason why its so cryptic is that its something that its otherwise fashion obsessed owner would have thrown out DECADES ago. Enola even comments such. So while independently it wouldn't bother me, they're actively ignoring very key parts to later books that add context in this series. That and a few other things, like how Enola makes a point to never disguise herself as a boy both because she finds it cliche, and because she was taught by her mother to feel empowered by her womanhood, the fact that the closes thing we get to a love interest is in the subtext between her and a Duke's daughter, she was never trained in fighting but rather made use of her brains combined with more feminine practices to solve her puzzles, including one where she saves Sherlock, and how bikes (Specifically "dwarf" bikes) which were such a profound early tool for women's independence, played key role in Enola's escape and uncovering what happened to her mother. This and all of the smaller details like her dog, her employees that become a second family, living in women scholars boarding house, her love for caricature drawing, the enola onscreen feels like a totally different character, which would be fine except that this one undermines many of the points about feminism and a woman's right to freedom of movement that was so important to her book counter-part.
Jujitsu was not part of the suffrigette movement until a good 20 years later but I think they wanted to include it so Enola could do some hand to hand combat. Overall I sort of like the inclusion of her knowing a martial art because jujitsu later became an empowering part of the suffrigette movement.
I totally agree with everything here - the other part that I just keep thinking about bothering me in comparing book and movie Enola was when she just stood there to get caught and sent to the school. She got herself into so many bad situations in the books because she was so desperate to not get caught. And there was such a missed opportunity to focus on historical dress with the parts where she was commenting on her mother's odd wardrobe choices and figuring out what clothes were missing (and the Mrs. Tupper part in the later book).
I find this really interesting as from what I've read millie loved the books and has wanted to make this movie for ages, this disloyalty to the book maybe unintentional at least I hope so
mist dragon I feel like there were sporadic moments that she nails absolutely spot on and really showcase her love of the books. Some parts I understand potentially why they changed, like switching out the mother running away to the Romani for the suffragists. But the books had such attenion to detail on Enola’s personal relationship to the way she dressed and expressed her femininity when she disguised herself, as well as her growth and learning from the mistakes she makes due to her naivete and emotional motivations for wanting affection from her family. It all seemed to be replaced with more bland, cliche plot points so she could make ’noise’ and change the world.
When I saw the promotional pictures, I always wondered why she dressed up as a boy when she explicitly said that she would never dress up as one. The closest thing we get to see her dress up as a guy was when she borrowed a cab driver's coat and hat to drive his cab around the East End. Also the thing I like best about her is the fact that she can craft the most convincing disguises that even Lestrade is fooled and everyone around her is convinced that she's a lady or a beggar or a nun, depending on the situation. The movie was good and there were points where she nails it as Enola but bookEnola would never wear that red dress. I really liked what they did to Tewksbury's character though.
The steam car they steal - that takes at least an hour to get ready. It’s steam. Fire heats water... But that’s very action-movie kind of logic. All vehicles will always be ready for escape, no matter how complex the start up procedure.
But the owner of the vehicle was just encountered in the foyer shortly before, and while it's not specified that she had just arrived back from a trip it's a plausible explanation for both why the owner was *there* unexpectedly, why the car was conveniently sitting in the open drive rather than stored under shelter elsewhere, and why the vehicle was warm and ready to go.
Karolina, I love your videos so much! I was wondering: would you be willing to do a Q&A style video where people submit questions about vintage fashion? *clears throat and hides all my questions*
I'm not a fashion historian at all, and even I thought the red dress looked weirdly risque for the time. Also you should do a costume review of the Canadian TV show "Road to Avonlea"!
I'm no expert and correct me if I'm wrong but although I am not well versed in fashion, I know a bit about martial arts: Edith in the film is most likely based on Edith Garrud, the first female martial arts instructor in the west. She was trained in Bartitsu (a british style of Jujitsu that is only still remembered and is famous because of Sherlock Holmes) and she was the one that taught suffragettes to defend themselves when they were protesting so they wouldn't get taken down by police. However this fudges with the timeline of the film even more as Edith only started learning jujitsu in like 1899 and didn't teach until ~1910ish. This is real and theres a really good segment of Drunk History about it if you want. Also also, I was very confused by the jujitsu uniforms in the movie because martial arts uniforms, called dogis or just gis, are based on japanese formal dress, the kimono, but were only really popularised with Judo. So the concept of wearing gis for jujitsu in this movie would have been Brand New in the late 1800s/early 1900s or not really adopted yet. Also the belt system you see in pretty much every martial art didn't show up until the 20s (again with Judo as it was the first SPORT martial art) because the founder of Judo thought it was really cool how master swimmers had a black arm band to signify rank and he copied that. Glad the sporting outfits were somewhat accurate though! (Also if you read this far down into my ramblings, thank you but also why?)
You made an interesting and informative comment, is why. Most people wouldn't know historical details if martial arts, let alone the name of the first Western female practitioner.
Thank you! So I guess whoever wrote the story, threw together the most badass facts of the century, wich kind of screws with the timeline. Even as someone who doesn't know a lot of history, I got really confused by some styles.
Great video! I was also wondering what you thought of some of the male costumes, particularly of Sherlock because his outfits looked a bit different from the ones I've seen in other Holmes renditions.
sorry if it came off as a bit of a roast, it's a sweet movie and the costumes weren't actually bad
Yea OK got it
best meme mom
Omg hi ❤❤
omggg you broiled them 😭😂😭
hii karolina i was hoping if you would do a video on what was appropriate to wear when in one of your videos you said that there were some rules about which fabrics were "allowed" for an opera gown or when you could show shoulders and neck etc
karolina, a professional: some of them look 1830s, some of them look 1870, it’s really hard to see what they’re going for
me, illiterate, mouth full of pizza in bed at 4 in the afternoon: yeah what a rookie mistake
Honestly me though watching this movie
I don't know about other people but this video makes no sense to me atleast 😂😂
I feel like that watching this channel, but that's why I'm here! I pick up on main ideas and now I know more than before about fashion history🤣🤟
Literally me right now. Just reheated a day-old pizza.
If you look into the Reform Act or Women's suffrage in England you just get even more confused 🤣 40 years apart and they happen at the same time in the movie
"all the extras are out there wearing full on 1880's gowns and she's out there looking like a snack, except it's a 1900's snack" lol
By far my favorite line from the video, lol!
😂😂😂😂
Maybe it was to show she was before her time?
Lol I thought red ruffles, ppl will think she's a hooker😂
@@adabethsimpson2326 but not in fashion tho
Every movie with a corset they have to show how "painful" it was putting it on. 100 years from now when they do a period piece movie of 2020 there will be scenes of someone struggling to tighten their bra, in pain buttoning their pants and nearly in tears tying their shoes😂
😂😂 but if it’s set in 2020 during or post quarantine that might be accurate 😅
@@Nataliejn LOL! I totally had that same thought right after I posted my comment. So ok maybe that's a little more accurate than the corset perception🤣
Well she was just struggling and hasent Worn a corset ever.
Also Im happy this show DIDNT blast on corsets being oppressive.
they'll be filming something in an "ambiguous 2000's era" and have someone dressed like 80's Madonna, Kurt Cobain, The Spice Girls, The Matrix leather and Billie Eilish
Women were often laced so tightly their breathing was restricted leading to faintness. Compressing the abdominal organs could cause poor digestion and over time the back muscles could atrophy. In fact, long term tight lacing led to the rib cage becoming deformed
As an Enola Holmes book reader, she wears her corset loose on purpose to stuff all her belongings in it and to be able to move more comfortably, aka it’s done on purpose :)
Ahh finally someone else who's read the books! :)
is the book worth reading after watching the movie?
@@mery5989 Yes there are six of them and they're all really good.
mery they are WORTH reading, trust me!!
Yeah that's what I thought. And like her mother is clearly a feminist, she taught her daughter things at the time that were "meant for boys" so she was always kind of dressed slightly less feminine. she also doesn't see much other people besides her mother
Enolas dresses were beautiful but there's no way she'd blend in as a "lady" with that neckline
That’s exactly what I was thinking the entire time
in red? with That neckline??? in the middle of the day??????
I also mentioned this in my comment on modern gurlz' video but it's literally a plot hole that her costume is so inaccurate. The whole point of her dressing up like that is to be in disguise, so dressing so scandalously and out of the norm would have been a _terrible_ disguise. She should've been caught immediately.
Casi R. She’s pulling a Mariah Reynolds lol😂
ppl don't have a concept of what did and didn't count as Sexy in 1890 or whatever but that dress needed to come across to the audience as Sexy so i think it was a reasonable sacrifice 🤷 def could have been worse
As soon as Enola was like “corsets are a sign of oppression” I could hear Karolina fuming in the distance
I'm fuming here too
Nah, it's like a modern woman saying bras are opressive. It's just comfier to go without
Same! I was like don't do it!
@@GingerBun which is often not even true
Rebekah Wahl have you gone up and down stairs without a bra, it’s very uncomfortable
The most important question here is: why aren't these production companies hiring you?
They don’t wanna pay for her or the costumes she would demand. Lol
they don't want accuracy they want aesthetics
@@JordanLink1 true.
She would say that corsets are not a bad thing and has nothing to do about oppression, which clearly all does movies loves to say that.
Bc they don't care if it's accurate or not
I think what you missed from the quote is that she doesn’t just say “a corset a symbol of oppression” she says “a corset a symbol of oppression for those who are forced to wear it”. To me it’s the “forced to wear it” that changes the meaning, she’s not just dragging on corsets, she’s just dragging on being forced to wear them, she’s aware that when it’s a choice it’s not a problem. 😊
Yeah!
Yep! Plus the scene where the corset comes in handy really just puts in a subtle point of femininity being powerful in it's own way when chosen and desired.
However, back then it wasn't a "forced" idea. It was wearing under clothing no different from a bra is proper attire. There was no alternative, to go without was paramount to being naked. We can't apply modern thinking to day, to the thinking of the past. None of the clothes would have fot properly without a corset.
@@cantankeroushousewife2942 i think it's more that it's "forced" in a way that it's an expectation of women, just as bras are today. There's a lot of people that think not wearing a bra is sloppy, or "slutty," when obviously that's not the case. So while it's not literally forced, I think it's more speaking on the constructs women are expected to follow.
@@cantankeroushousewife2942 The alternative is to not wear a corset under their dress. The fact that that's considered "basically naked" _is_ evidence that it's a bit forced by society and looking "proper". For small-breasted women like myself, there's really no physical need to wear any type of support most of the time -- I can basically only feel the difference when I'm running down stairs. The only reason to wear a bra is because it wouldn't look socially acceptable otherwise... same thing with corsets back then.
But yeah, I don't think the corset is a symbol of oppression or anything. What it is, however, is one aspect of how women's worth is greatly assigned based on appearance, which is an issue that is still prevalent to this day.
I think Enolas moms dresses are from the Helena Bonham Carter-era
Never question the Helena Bonham Carter era
care to inform?
@@balaynganiyebe it's a strange period in time somewhere between the 17th century and 20th century that encompasses all yet none of the traits from this period of roughly 4 differening centuries.
@@WillowLackett oh okay. it would totally make sense though, seeing as Eudora definitely does not dwell on if she appeals to anyone
So she was just wearing her personal wardrobe?
imagine someone from the future doing this same exact thing with 2000s / 2010s fashion like "ooo a neon puffer jacket that is so 2019"
Well. Take your family photos from for example 2000-2005 and try to pinpoint year by clothes. If you are able to... Now you know this feel.
sometimes when a 1990s movie does something painfully 90's i like to scream DATED and i need to make a habit of doing it for 18th and 19th century movies lmao
"Face mask. So 2020's."
@@magorzatadus9347 2020's... the s reminds me we don't know how long this will go on 💀
we have youtube now..
we pretty much have time machine.. just in video 😁
Lol imagine in a couple hundred years there’s a movie set in the 2020s and a fashion historian saying things like “No, moustaches and galaxy print is mid 2010s, you can’t mix it up with low rise jeans from the early 2000s what is this madness!”
Bruh
I’m honestly okay with older characters wearing older fashions. I’ve seen so many older ladies wearing things that would belong in the 50s/60s. Not to mention the cost of keeping up with the changing styles. This means that poorer people would also be behind the times, fashion wise. Everyone in a movie wearing the same year’s fashion doesn’t check out for me. Granted, when has that ever happened? But I totally agree about when styles go “into the future”. Pick a date, don’t go past that!
OMG, I know some women like my Dad's ex girlfriend who has had the same hair cut and style since the 80s! I wonder who she even goes to that can do that feathering technique. Her layers go to the top of her head. She got breast cancer and lost all her hair to chemo and then as soon as it grew back enough got it layered the same way again..
My thoughts exactly.
Absolutely! When I did period costuming for theatre at uni that was rule number 1 for us. Younger characters are able to be PRESENT in their fashion sense, but never in the future. Also taking into account social movements and fashion that went along with that, and what those trends meant. Karolina mentioned Aestheticism and Art Nouveau and those are great examples!
Older characters especially middle age and above might be dressed in older fashions, especially if it fits with their character - a stodgy older woman who's used to older styles might absolutely wear outdated clothes.
Here you had older conservative people wearing fashion of the future while some young and wealthy city dwellers were behind the rural folk. That is pretty much opposite to "wearing clothes appropriate to persons age and standing"
I liked how they did this with Maggie Smith's character in Downton. She seemed to veer more towards an older style of dress. People often like what they grew up with, and I felt that was a nice detail.
This might sound crazy, but hear me out, low rise jeans are the true enemy of women.
You're not crazy Carmen, this statement couldn't be more true
I agree.
Unless they like to have a good feed, and can't stand pressure on their waist and belly button.
You are right and you should say it
Carmen Del Castillo what about this is crazy? It’s completely correct.
I love how Karolina critizises characters that don't dress with the times, while rocking a vintage bob in 2020.
But her outfit matches her hairstyle, she doesn't have 1930s hair with 1950s bodice and 1910 skirt
Well she is not in a movie that depicts certain era...anc in our times fashion is more free
@@SusanYeske701 That might look cool though
She also mentions that “dressing vintage” was not a thing at that time. Dressing vintage is a new thing that people have started doing, before it usually meant you were poor or out of touch with fashion.
edit: sorry if this sounds mean or critical to the original comment. It wasn’t meant to!
Hello everyone! The commenter was just pointing out the irony:) let’s be civil
When a video analysing “Anne with an E” costumes??
PLEASE GOD PLEASE
uppppp
Yessss pls
YES ANNE W AN E PLEASE!!!
Yes! I would love that as well
Enola Holmes: Fights a whole ass man, in a corset
Lizzy Swan: Faints and falls off a cliff
Emma Olsson Thorell To be fair those stays simply did not fit her 😂
Enola Holmes the next Pirate King?
Enola wasn’t in full silk dealing with to small stays in CARIBBEAN HEAT
lmao you've clearly never been to the tropics
Except Lizzie wasn't trained in fighting before she was taken unlike enola...
I came here *so fast*
-mostly just for a roast of that red dress tbh-
I thought it was pretty while I watched the film. I couldn't pinpoint what was off about that dress until Karolina mentioned the bodice looking 18th century and the skirt, well, not. I still think it's pretty even if it's a weird mishmash. I did sit there while she wandered through the warehouse district in that and wondered what happened to hats, shawls, outerwear of any kind.
@UCSnBZ2XxR7_ekpmbC0CeaSw Off brand Karolina! Bernadette! Thou must be one who lives in sea (Sorry Posidon) to insult such an amazing and graceful person! Who might I say is a joy to this world and a friend of Karolina's!
Same lol
Same here!
me too, i needed something to assure me i wasnt crazy at feeling visceral disgust over that neckline
Millie Bobbie Brown was the producer. There will probably be a follow-up film, so you should absolutely reach out to her, and offer your consulting services for the next Enola Holmes!! 🙂
This comment needs to go up so that she sees it!!
boost!
the stranger things girl?
@@lorenapacora1526 Yes! Also the girl who played Enola
Late but yessss!!!
Enola said that she was born in 1884, she's 16 years old at the beginning of the film so.... yikes for the costume department.
Well I guess that at least explains the Edwardian pieces showing up if its 1900 and beyond. And explains the car.
Yeah that's the part that threw me off the most watching the movie. Right off the bat I was like, "Okay, she's 16, so we're in 1900 now!" and then literally everything else we saw contradicted that.
I thought the same
For some reason my brain ignored that and I watched the whole movie thinking it was 1885 lol
Fuck yeah! I KNEW it was late 1890s or early 1900s!
sorry but we don't question Helena Boham Carter's hair in this house
it is what it is
Amen to that! Her hair does as it pleases and it's best to leave it that way!
Fact. 🙌
**Bellatrix Lestrange flashbacks**
Agree
@@ophie71 YES
*Nobody:*
*Me at 3am: Let's see if Enola Holmes clothing were historically appropriate or not*
It's 11pm here in Portugal, it isn't that late, but I have to wake up at 6am. Good night :)
It was 6am for me 😊
It's 2 am in Turkey :)
Right now it's 9am in Australia
@@evamae2428 Good morning to you then 😊
I noticed that the "corsets are opression" comments almost always come from well-off/upper class women. For people who do physically demanding labour, a well fitting corset is actually a godsend and helps a lot to alleviate back pain.
actually my sister struggles with back issues and she's been using a custom -made corset when at home because it trains your back to it's natural posture. It doesn't necessarily take away the problem but she says it really benefits her and helps her relax
I've actually watched a video today about why and how corsets "were killed". The author mentions two things that can be referred to both comments above:
1) as long as you had lots of long/heavy skirts, you kinda needed a corset because it put all that weight on a bigger surface of your waist and (I suppose) hips. Also before the bras era it was pretty much the only bust support kind of "device". Due to invention of bras, less/lighter skirts involved and some other factors (like WWI, apparently) corsets became less and less popular but never disappeared completely.
2) Corsets didn't really "die" and probably never will, apart from people who choose to wear them for many reasons, like aestethics, or them being attributed to feminity (somebody mentioned in the comment to that video that apparently many trans people wear it because it helps them achieve more feminine silhouette), there's e.g. medical "corsets" that take on lots of functional ideas of original corsets (my mom wore a medical one too, after back operation and she loved it and said it did help her get back in shape). So again, I guess corsets weren't that bad altogether.
It is a oppression beig forced to wear it, if you like to wear it justo go! Wear whatever you want
Also corset its not too good, it can be good for some types of bacj pain but it is bad for the organs and your bone, some ppl cant even breath well with that
@@oof5740 That’s a myth, actually. Tightlacing was the damaging one, however it was also very rare, and the only reason why people today mistake tightlacing for proper corsetry was because back in the day people made such a big deal about it because they thought woman who did tightlacing were absolutely crazy, so there was a heap of documentation surrounding it. However you can also easily find proper reliable sources that debunk the myths surrounding corsetry with a little bit of research. Everyday woman wore corsets while horse riding, fencing, playing tennis, even hiking and so many other things. Corsets were designed to be well fitted to provide proper support so that woman could COMFORTABLY go about their everyday lives, corsets weren’t made to be very constrictive, and ESPECIALLY weren’t made to the point that it would cause a change to body shape. Obviously there was a lot of strict expectations surrounding what women should wear, and corsets definitely were part of it, but they were never supposed to be physically damaging like what you’ve stated.
theyre a lil confused but they got the spirit
In the books, Enola wore out of date clothing quite often. In addition, in the scene where she acquires the corset and red dress, she is in a used clothing shop so it makes sense that her clothing is out of date rather dramatically.
But out of date doesn’t excuse wrong time of day- that neckline isn’t a daytime neckline.
It just seems as though the director was like “ah, just throw together a bunch of vaguely late Victorian stuff, no one will know the difference”. Except we do know the difference. And it stands out as being wrong.
its kinda fun how the dating seems to affect the top half of the dress the fastest
YES THANK YOU
Also she's been living in the countryside with an eccentric mother and has no idea what fashion is. All the clothes she wears when she's on the run and second hand and not made for her, which is why they look odd on her
@@katherinemorelle7115 But she wouldn't know it's not a daytime neckline, since she doesn't know what's in fashion or not 🤷🏻♀️
Miss Violet Nightchild I feel like you’d know what is deemed inappropriate or appropriate at the very least, just by sheer common sense. Like today, you’d know a cocktail dress isn’t for like, going to the office...
Me: not knowing absolutely nothing about historical fashion
Also me: ahhh yes 20 minutes of Karolina explaining the difference between 1890 and 1880 fashion
mee
I can't wait til we're so far in the future that when a movie is set in the 90s, they're gonna be wearing poodle skirts, crochet halter tops, feathered hair, and yeezys.
And scrunches it is law
I mean a lot of shows right now sometimes do like a mix of eras. Sabrina does like a mixture of 60s and modern clothes, a lot of shows have been doing a 2020s take on the 90s on some characters with more normal 2020 clothes on background characters. I mean 30 years ago was the 90s. Do you still wear some of the same clothes? We still wear jeans though the style depends on what you have in your closet (I probably have more bootcut jeans than some people as I bought a ton in the early 2000s and only buy a new pair like every 2-3 years), chokers are back in style, some people are still doing leggings and long tops or boho skirts or have been doing flannel for like 15 years. Not everyone is always wearing the newest most fashionable thing
Looking at a crinoline while wearing a bustle is like holding using your iPad to shop online for an old computer from 1995.
May I point out the NSFW-scene-if-you're-a-victorian-being: She brings the young man to her room. Alone. Without a chaperone. And they sit on THE SAME BED. THE INDECENCY.
Edit: Yeah, she might not know how to behave, BUT THE BLOKE MOST CERTAINLY DOES BECAUSE HE IS AN EDUCATED INDIVIDUAL
I was wondering how she snuck him up there even. And then they were discussing SHARING the room? Like that's not okay then and if adults are around it's not okay today.
Don’t forget her chemise and drawers are just out and about in that scene and they hardly even address it except for her getting very slightly embarrassed. Even in the 21 century if a man is coming into my space the first thing I do is hide my bra (assuming I left it out that is)
Pretty sure the point is that Enola has no idea what you’re meant to do in social situations cause her mother never taught her and she lived in isolation.
@@melliexcx She might not know, but the young man most certainly does 🤔
Melissa Okeke you could be onto something with that, but also in the beginning of the movie remember she is in her chemise and drawers with her brothers and Mycroft tell her like “no you really shouldn’t be doing that” so it’s not as if she’s completely unaware even if it was just her and her mom before. And I’m sure she would have had some concepts of propriety based on the books she read as it mentions her reading a lots. Even if she was completely unaware, Tewksbury definitely wasn’t, and he should have put the kibosh on it right away.
As soon as Enola said "corsets are a symbol of oppression" I said somewhere on this planet Karolina woke up steaming mad lmao
How white feminist of her.
I mean she did say for those who were forced to wear them
@@nickelpickled who do you think were forced to wear corsets?
Historically corsets were just underwear that makes you look good, who wouldn't want to wear it on that period of time?
Preußen well idrk I’m just tryna quote what she said, but I guess corsets would’ve been good lol
Patrick3183 how wtf?
I totally get that the outfits are not historically accurate, but I think some of the era shifts in fashion reflect what the movie is trying to say about the characters. Eudoria’s costumes show how against the grain of typical society she was. Edith’s costumes are more modern, reflecting her characters progressive, ahead of her time beliefs. The old fashioned costumes of the dowager reflect her characters zealotry for preserving the legacies of the past. Makes for very inconsistent fashion timeline, but consistent characterization!
I agree!
Definitely
I was thinking this same thing while Karolina gave dates for each of their costumes! Rather than a critique of the costumer, it seems like a clever concept that they snuck in!
This should have more likes
100% agree! I was about to comment this when I saw your comment. And when she was talking about the scene where the women were in a meeting and how they all looked like different time period I felt like it made sense as an artistic choice: the older ladies had an older style (~1830 I think she said?) and the younger looking ones had a style closer to 1870s). Seems logical since some people may not always follow the trends and instead just keep a rather similar fashion over the years. Idk 🤔😊
I think it makes perfect sense that the hair on the ladies in the meeting scene are all over the place. Some of the ladies are quite a bit older, and it would make sense they are sticking with the hairstyles that were 'in' when they were younger. I don't see much older ladies rocking the newest hairstyles, why would it be different in 1880.
Another thing is the dated outfit of Holmes home maid. Considering the state of the house, it would be quite suitable for the maid and the charactets there to be in outdated clothes. Even if they had newer outfits available, they probably wouldn't wear them daily, but would keep them for special occasions...? Just makes some sense to me for that bit of the costumes to be all over the place.
100% agree with this
same as the boy clothing.. Sherlocks is not necessarly accurate but the servant boy is. his clothes are most likely from an older brother or father so it would be an old fashioned style.
Actually the hair is what drove me most crazy. In that it was almost always showing with all women of all stations. Wrong, wrong, wrong. This film had a noticable lack of hats and gloves. Hats and gloves were manditory attire for middle and upper class women through the 1950s for Sunday church attire. They also need to really decide if Enola is a young girl, hair down, or a young woman, hair up.
@@wildcrocus The story of the books (the movie is really inaccurate to them by the way) is that Enola starts as a sort of wild young girl, probably keeps her hair down, and ruins her white dresses(not full length). She turns 14 at the start of the book. Her brothers force her to dress like a young lady, and then she just keeps doing that, to help her disguise herself. So she starts as a young girl, and becomes a young lady to hide from her brothers. In one of the later books (the second? I cant remember.) she says "... When I was 13 going on 10 instead of 14 going 30", so that implies that she had to grow up fast. Also in the books she REALLY does not want to dress up like a boy, because 1. its too obvious and 2. she's not comfortable wearing pants. So why is that the FIRST thing she does in the movie????? That wasnt really relevant but who cares.
I wanted to say, because it seems like you might have missed the second line after the first thing she says about the corset.
I too was dreading an anti-corset message in this movie, but how they end up portraying it isn't actually anti-corset in my opinion. The full quote of what she says in the shop when buying the outfit is "the corset: a symbol of repression to those who are *forced* to wear it. But for me, who *chooses* to wear it, the bust enhancer, and the hip regulators, it will hide the fortune my mother has given me" and she puts it on with a smile, happy with the way it moves and how she can hide money in it.
She has no problem with the corset the first time she puts it on, and doesn't seem all too upset about it, even getting excited when it saves her life after being stabbed.
Later, when she's in the school, and her choices are taken away, despite the fact that the second corset is likely more comfortable, she struggles and is angry about having to wear it because it's no longer her choice.
She isn't struggling later on because she hates the corset, it's because her choice in the matter was taken away when she was sent to the school.
In my opinion, the two corset scenes are a commentary on how her choices were removed and not a commentary about how corsets are torture devices.
I agree.
You said it perfectly. We were thinking the same at home and was about to mention it in the comments
I was searching for this comment, I thought the same.
YEEEES! I, too could hear the sound of Karolina screaming in the distance at the first bit of that line, but the second line, and the way she proceeds to do jiu jitsu while still in the corset, and how the corset is later shown as extremely useful bc it saves her from getting stabbed all made me feel like the actual message is that the corset itself is not opressive, but rather the reasons why you might be forced into one
Absolutely agree and those were my thoughts as well.
I love how in the beginning of the movie mycrosoft asks enola where are her gloves, because a lady must wear them, and then through the whole movie I haven't seen any woman wear a glove once
Mycrosoft?
Mycrosoft?
...Mycrosoft?
Mycrosoft. i love it.
Mycrosoft?
"It looks like a complete mess but it's also kind of fun" is the best description of this film ever.
#I’mNotLikeOtherVictorianGirls!
I’m Edwardian.
Is Enola Holmes Costumes Accurate?
Karolina: No ❤️
No🥰 ✨
E b o l a
“Ebola” Holmes lmao
vriii Oh no 🤦🏻♀️
Kathryn Vincent it happened to me too. Thankfully I caught it before I posted the comment, but yay for autocorrect!
"Corset logic" needs to be a full-on college course.
movie directors should really take one of those classes. I truly hate how badly corsets/stays/pairs of bodies are portrayed today
Ines Furtado me too. I tried telling people that the myths about corsets are false and they got mad at me. One lady said a closet made her fat, which is funny cause a corset movers your fat to the back. So it was just her own fat lol
Whoops meant corset and move lol
Lol I'm making a informative speech on corsets for my college public speaking class.
I agree.
Didn't Enola say that they weren't a sign of oppression if you CHOOSE to where them right after?
hannah H-M I would have loved that line way more if she hadn’t spent a lot of the movie saying “And I’m the only one who does everyone else is just forced to”
Still loved loved loved the movie but those bits were a little annoying
She was trying to be disguised
yeah she did, that’s what i liked about the quote. she knew there was nothing wrong with corsets or current fashion if you wanted to dress that way
@@OmGoshItsWaffles back then yeah. to fit in with society you wore a corset. just like to fit in with society now you wear a bra
@@pollyflores418 ... did she? I saw it just a few days ago, and I don't remember anything like that. The only time I remember her even implying that corsets are a problem is when she's in the school, and that's pretty obviously not about the corsets but about the fact that she literally does not have a choice, she's just as negative about the rest of her weird black and white school outfit.
Netflix should hire Karolina to design their dresses and stuff.
Henry Cavill is 37, but playing a "younger" Sherlock, so probably closer to 30. We know Sherlock Holmes was born in 1857, so the movie probably should take place in the mid 1880s. The Anglo-Afghan War ends in 1880, putting the Marquess' father's death sometime before 1881 when his uncle would have returned from the war. The reform bill talked about should be either the 1884 Representation of the People Act (this was debated/passed in the late fall/winter) or the 1885 Redistribution of Seats Act (passed in early summer, so probably the more likely candidate). The issue comes with the suffragettes, who would not begin violent protests in the real world until the late aughts, though they were around in the 1880s.
I was thinking the same thing, the mailbox bombs and the "suffri-jitsu" came later.
I thought it said Enola was born in 1884, which would make the movie set in 1900, may have read it wrong though
@@zhoradaiyu5184 if that's true, the remark on the Afghan war implies the Marquess is only 3 or 4 when his father dies. The book series has Sherlock 20 years older than Enola, so she should be born around 1877, placing the year as 1893 and Sherlock as 36, which would be the age of Cavill. In conclusion, the movie took extreme liberties with timelines either way. Haha
the movie is indeed in 1884, when sherlock read a newspaper in the begging of the movie it shows the date and is 1884 (maybe its 1885, I don't recall exactly)
I am just loving this Sherlockian thread.
Hearing about fashion from the time is really interesting, but it makes me glad I don't know all this stuff myself. Instead I can watch a period piece movie and live in ignorant bliss thinking "wow that's a pretty dress" and that is all
hahah that's true. when i saw enola's red and pink dress, i thought she looked stunning (huhuhu i wanna wear it)
I can't watch any medical tv shows because of the constant inaccuracies. And those similar to The 100.... Scientifically so inaccurate 😂 can't watch without getting infuriated and yelling at those shows😂
@@morganeharvey332 I can't take movies seriously anymore that have any of those fake corsets are bad scenes. I wear one everyday at work and the only thing about pain is that I don't have lower back pain anymore.
@@TemariNaraannaschatz I'm really curious about wearing corset to inrpove posture/decrease lower back pain. Could you please elaborate on that, like what kind of corsets you wear etc?
@@hareema4442 I started off with a really cheap one with plastic boning from amazon as an accessory and after I noticed how much better my back felt I invested in some of better qualitly and switched to stronger boning.
I'd reccoment getting something softer at first that breaks in faster. At first don't wear it for the whole day, just an hour to see what it feels like and then wear it more until it's broken in (aka it fits your body, like breaking in shoes).
My personal most worn corset is also from amazon which I got last summer because I wanted one I was able to wear even when it's really hot. And it has some netting inbetween the boning which makes it airier. But that's just a personal preference.
I would say get a cotton corset, linen is good too, but costs way more. Just get a breathable material and wear something underneath. I generally wear my normal cotton undershirts so nothing gets sweaty. And I only have to wash my corset once a week.
In general for a first corset I'd suggest something out of a natural material with soft plastic boning (steel boning or hard plastic boning is good, but if you're not used to wearing corsets it's too much) and make sure whereever you buy it has a good measuring scale. Ignore anything that says S/M/L/Xl etc. Look for your body measures and go for that.
And don't buy waist-trainers, they aren't made for back support but for waist stinging which is nothing you want to do. Most corsets come pre-laced and at the start I'd just leave it in, even when washing, just adjust to the measures to your body. (I'm someone which a wider hip and small chest, so I always get one that's fitting on the waist and then get it really tight to fit my chest and more loose on the bottom for my hips.)
I'd also say that you shouldn't make it too tight at first. The practical thing about corsets is that you can ajust them, so if you eat something you can make them wider, but also if you notice they are loose you can just tighten them.
And price isn't everything. I have some really cheap corsets that fit me super well and I can wear for hours and I have a couple of expensive onse that I rarely wear due to the fit. Your body is what you have to take into consideration on this.
And for the medical part of corsets:
Corsets stop you from being in bad ways. You can't really hunch over or get your back complelty hollowed out (I mean you can do both but it gets uncomftbable really fast and you stop it. So streching works just fine.) so you don't stay in bad positions for long. That way your back remains straighter and that reduced the pain, mostly in the middle to lower back (but I mostly wear underbust corsets due to my small chest, I don't know how well full bust corsets work on the upper back due to experience, but I know that they distribute the weight of the chest evenly so it will definitly help quiet a lot.)
You can still do everything in a corset. I work in a labor job the whole week and I can carry everything, bend over etc. just fine. I can run in them and all. If properly worn you won't notice that you're wearing a corset at all. And after a while you stop bening in shapes you shouldn't bend your back because it's bad for you on your own without your corset reminding you not to do it. Which is a nice side effect.
I hope that helped, if you want to know anything else, let me know =)
I think they were actually sending a bit of a message with some of the clothes. A lot of the older people are wearing older fashions, being more traditional and stuck in the past- whereas a lot of the younger women who were fighting for their vote are wearing the later era clothes- looking to the future, stepping away from the previous eras.
Yea I think it was Well styalized(If Thats how you write it) and still feels good for the ees while simontaniusly doesnt.
I think you're exactly right, especially with the woman of colour who is a café owner wearing "future" clothes. If the corset scene is as big as it sounds, it makes sense that clothing would be used to say something thematically as opposed to historical accuracy, which is way more forgivable than giving in to the "modern sensibilities" thing.
I'm one of the girls you mention in the film and we did so many shots that day looking at different items from the dress shop. The crinoline in the shop is probably the set designer's fault not a costume designer fault. There were up to 200 extras on set that day and a lot of them were in crinoline, some had bustles... Appreciate they don't all match up in the shot or time wise but it's probably hard to find that many matching costumes out there. :)
The neckline of the red dress really got me thinking: "something is wrong here".
It kinda reminded me of like a wild west prostitute type of outfit.
Yeah I mean like she was only the one who was wearing something red and that even BRIGHT red. Idk how she thought that was gonna make her fit in
Low key liked seeing the daughter of a dress reformist be literally saved by a corset 👀👀☕️☕️ it was a nice change to the trope
I know, right? :) Especially after she had earlier described them as some sort of bondage to woman, only for it to end up being the very thing that saved her life, later. Corsets are such a gorgeous part of Victorian fashion, and as someone who owns a corset, they're not half as restricting as actors so often try to make them out to be! :)
In the books, her corset becomes an integral part of her wardrobe for the rest of the series! It also goes into detail how she uses the space for padding to hide extra disguise pieces and make herself look older (than 14, her book age).
@@panda31415 That's really cool! I actually haven't read the books, but ought to! I actually hadn't heard of them, before Netflix announced the movie, but now I'm quite curious about the books! :)
ThatWeirdoNextDoor they’re really so good! I’m biased because I was a fan before the movie but I think they’re SO much better than the film.
but weirdly they pulled the trope again with the lord. I was like "ahhhh it would have made sense if he was there to see the corset trick, or she told him about it!" but now its just pulling the same trick twice.
everyone is forgetting the full corset quote
:,(
First: Karolina is fabulous and I feel like a lot of this is spot on if we look at the costumes only in the context of historical accuracy and don’t try to bring much character or narrative context into it.
Someone a few posts down also said this, but the whole corset tightening scene may not have been the result of preconceived notions about corsets and Hollywood-type agendas. It looked to me like they were showing the difference between how a scenario can exist with and without consent. When she chooses to wear the corset, it is a thing of joy and engagement for her. It is empowering. When she is forced to wear a corset, it is something that she (literally) struggles with. I also wondered if it wasn’t the kind of situation where: when I go to put on a bra and I am in a usual headspace, it is an easy task but when I am already stressed out and anxious, the task becomes much more annoying and harder.
Also, I don’t know if that quote counts as “an overtly anti-corset quote”. She is the daughter of a militant suffragist, so it is entirely possible that she heard that growing up. And the full quote does say that it is oppression for those who are forced to wear it but for those who choose it it provides opportunities. Again we’re talking about consent and how it is and isn’t a thing for (young) women in society. The society being perfectly accurate in its norms may not best serve the point for its intended demographic.
Agreed
Yes! I agree completely with this point!
it's like how for some women wearing bras is extremely helpful and useful, but it is the fact that women are "forced" to wear it by society anyways, or else they would be called sluts, messy, etc.
@@dan.a77 yeah, lots of women don't want to wear bras at all, or they want to wear sports bras but they have to wear underwire bras when they go to work and other public places
@@no_peace Yeah- and Enola was probably free-boobing it under a shift or two when it was just her, her mom and the maid so no wonder it seems like an effort to be expected to wear a corset. I know that quarantine has made the concept of wearing shoes somewhat irritating
I feel like in a lot of period movies, they'll give certain characters pants/boy clothes in a way to make them more forward thinking, or "not-like-other-girls." As if being feminine and wearing skirts is somehow not forward thinking. Like, Tina in Fantastic Beats, for example.
Because heaven forbid women be womanly, how sexist of them to suggest it!
I really appreciated the moments in this film when they combined femininity with power. Helena Bonham Carter's character exclusively wore dresses and was feminine and had typically "feminine" pursuits like painting tiny flowers and having tea with her ladies. At the same time she was powerful, in control, leading the group, and managing her estate. Enola didn't put on trousers and a cap to do physically demanding things and be strong, she did those things in dresses and wore men's clothing as a disguise. Obviously that's not the case in every film, but I appreciated it in this one.
I don't blame then honestly, they just do what the public wants. On one side you have people who aprecciate femininity and on another you have woman who don't want any of it, it's just a lot o mixed signals.
Yeah but to be fair- the first time she dresses as a boy to look like a boy as a disguise, like that’s the point- same with the second two times- she knows people are looking for a girl- because she’s a girl- so she dresses as a boy to divert attention, it’s not really anything to do with sexism. She’s literally just disguising herself
Dominic Sidaway my big issue with that is that in the books she makes a point of saying she’ll never dress as a boy. She dresses as a beggar woman and all sorts of convincing female disguises, but never a boy. So here the writers directly go against her written personality when they just as easily could have put her in a female disguise.
as for the timeline - sherlock tells enola that she had a pincone on a string that she called dash, after queen victoria's dog, dash, when she was a little girl. enola is too young to remember this, so she was maybe 3 or 4? the real dash died in 1840. enola is 16 years old in the movie, so at the most you can add 13 years to 1840, arriving at 1856. BUT THEN: i googled it and google says it takes place in 1884. AND autombiles were not introduced in england until 8 years LATER. wow. it really was all over the place. lol. but i still enjoyed the movie.
if u were in that universe you'd have been called a deductive genius by now
@@Crosshill lol
There's no reason Enola couldn't have named her pinecone after the dog Queen V had in the past, no matter how long ago that was. Victoria was still the queen and Enola might well have been interested in what the queen's life was like as a young girl.
@@Luanna801 i agree with you. after listening to the clothing descriptions being so much later and seeing that the car was not introduced until almost the end of the century, i figured this must be the case. i am sure lots of little girls were interested in what QV must have been like as a young girl and queen. i know i am and its more than 200 years later and i'm, by far, no longer a young gir. lol
Dash is a famous dog, even if he died before Enola's time, no need to add Dash's lifespan to the deduction
So erm... speaking of "corsets are actually really good", I strained my lower back really bad. I was in total agony and had to get pain meds from my doctor. I remembered what Karolina said about corsets helping with back problems. I put on my expensive custom tailored corset and it actually helped the pain!!!!
Truly? Corsets helps back pain?
@@honeybee3317 Yep! If they are well fitted to your body they can do wonders for back pain. I wouldn't just go buying any corset if you suffer from back pain as the wrong one for your body could do more harm than good, but properly fitted and with appropriate medical advice if necessary and it can be a great asset.
Women were often laced so tightly their breathing was restricted leading to faintness. Compressing the abdominal organs could cause poor digestion and over time the back muscles could atrophy. In fact, long term tight lacing led to the rib cage becoming deformed.
@@oof5740 Nope! Not at all true. Corsets only restrict the waist and NOT the ribcage so don't cause restricted breathing enough to cause fainting in the slightest. Fainting was more likely to be due to wearing many layers of warm clothing, but even then, most "fainting" when written about was of ladies at dances. There are etiquette books from the time which teach ladies the polite way to get out of awkward social interactions and one of those ways was to pretend to faint. That would allow the lady's friends to take her aside so she can avoid the conversation (such as some guy she's not interested in asking to marry her or something, it was rude just to say no). You don't get stories of the cleaning maids fainting despite spending all day from the crack of dawn to the end of the night scrubbing and running the household whilst corseted (because they wore corsets too!). Plenty of modern corset wearers choose to tightlace, for example Cathy Jung tightlaces down to 15", yes fifteen inches, and has no ill effects whatsoever. That measurement is way below what Victorian women wore, with the vast majority of corsets falling within the 22"-28" range (with natural waists being on average reduced no more than 2-4", so the range of natural waists being 24" to 32" for the average). Cathy is still able to hold her body up fine without the corset on even though she wears one every single day for 23hrs a day. The one hour out of the corset she spends washing and exercising (she is particularly fond of ocean swimming and she's past her 70s by now I believe so she's not a spring chicken). Victorian women by comparison wore their corsets purely to support their clothing (it was heavy) and breasts and to provide a smooth silhouette during the day and they removed them in the evenings to go to bed. And they were still able to function just fine. And contrary to popular misconceptions, corsets are not rigid structures, especially not ones made to Victorian methods. Most corsets were made of a single layer of fabric, those made of two layers had the second be just a lining. Then the main stiffener was whalebone for a lot of the time and that's actually filters from the mouths of baleen whales which is made of the same stuff as our fingernails. It responds well to body heat and becomes very flexible. Then towards the end of the era they were using steel, but even those bones were a lot more flexible than what you find in modern corsets as we just don't make the steel as high quality any more so it can't be made into as thin strips as it was. They were also narrower than modern steel bones being roughly 3mm to 4mm wide rather than the smallest easily available today is 5mm wide. In off the rack corsets, the bones are 7mm wide. Oh and some corsets just used cording which is lengths of string basically. And other stuff. Only there to provide vertical support so the fabric doesn't just roll down.
What else? Ah yes, the rib cage deformity. Now sure the Victorians wore their corsets from their teens, but unless there is something very wrong with your genetics, the bones aren't going to be reshaped by wearing a garment which is only worn snugly over the rib area. You can do some "reshaping" with a corset in that the muscles which hold the ribs in place can allow them to move, however this effect is not permanent and when you take the corset off, the ribs return to their natural position. The real reason there were rib cage deformities found a lot? Well the medical professionals learning more about how bodies worked learned by cutting up corpses. Rich people didn't want that happening, so they used the bodies of the poor. Those who were more likely to have suffered from malnutrition throughout their lives so the deformity was mostly from that - they grew like that. The deformities were actually seen in equal numbers in men and women even though it was only the women who were wearing the corsets for the most part (richer men may have, but it would have been less likely for the poor men to have done so).
The medical people also liked to claim that corsets would do things like cut a liver almonst in half if laced too tight. However what they were actually observing there was a phenomenon where the liver develops with lobes. This occurs today too in people who are totally healthy and who have never worn a corset ever. Its just a thing that sometimes happens. Lots of stuff was blamed on corsets. Even tuberculosis was blamed on corsets which we now know was caused by a bacteria. Funnily enough, the bacteria likes to hang out in the very bottom of the lungs and it was actually seen that those wearing corsets (which do change how you breathe - you breath with the top part of your lungs more than the bottom part and they compensate by getting larger further up if you corset from a young age) had fewer cases of infection because it didn't get as far in as it needed to really set up home. So to limit the spread through militrary men, corsets were actually recommended as a means of prevention. Obviously it was a 100% preventative, but it did seem to make a difference. Which pissed off some of the doctors who were trying to prove corsets were evil because they couldn't wrap their heads around why women might like to keep their breasts supported....
Yea Alexa you tell em 😌
Me: Sees Lady Tewksberry’s dress in the train station scene
Me: Ha! Look at that natural-form-looking, unfashionable, two-years-behind trollop!
My Mom sitting next to me: 👁👄👁
are 'enola holmes' costumes accurate?
karolina: well yes, but actually no
its like that joke about a schools decades dance where the decades aint specified
It's year 1900 and everything makes sense to be honest
At the beginning of the movie when she’s introducing herself they show her as a baby with “Me at age 0” and “1884” written on the screen. So if she was born in 1884 and Sherlock says she is sixteen, then it’s somehow supposed to be 1900, which makes zero sense with the costuming choices they made...
The movie is set in 1884 (that's the year the reform happened and it also says 1884 on a newspaper Sherlock is reading)
@@Elowuz I didn't notice the newspaper before! Good catch!
I thought it took place in 1900 because of the 1884 year 0 thing too.
@@GeoGirl2008 I thought that as well until I saw the newspaper date
Eloise N. Aroo? (Confused puppy face) she was born 1884 and the movie starts on her 16th birthday so...1900? Right?
Wouldn't it make sense that the older women's clothing would be a little out of style? My granny DGAF about 2020 fashion.
Usually they would have fashion from a few years back since being super adept at trends whrn you're like 57 would be incredibly suspicious
She did say the same thing in the video.
The problem was the grandmother wore a more fashionable "modern" dress than the mother. So, the exact opposite than what you stated. This movie was all over the place with fashion.
I could see discrepancies in Enola’s dress boiling down to the fact that her mom is a super feminist and probably didn’t force her to wear what was “proper dress.” Because she isn’t taught what she “should” wear, and like Sherlock said she’s not very street smart, I could imagine every shopping trip she goes into a shop and is like “cool this is pretty” but not knowing how to put it on, what it should look like, etc. struggling with the corset is along the same line, she’s not used to doing the things and doing them alone is hard.
Her moms clothing I could also see being a hodge podge because she’s all “F- society” and, like other people said, the random assortment of clothes on other people could be because people dress in different decades all the time.
I get the inconsistencies Karolina talks about, these are just my thoughts.
Where's waldo but all time has collapsed and everyone living in this confusing mixture of a timeline has yet to learn something or someone broke time?
that....would be an awesome premise. definitely something i would read
Wait who tf is Waldo I thought his name was Wally
@@kadibookalways There IS a series (a trilogy) of books with a Very similar idea, called "Mapmakers" (The 1st one is "The Glass Sentence"), in which time broke across different eras and maping out time across the world becomes a profession!
@@JJLiu-xc3kg its different all over the world. Wally, Waldo or Wally Waldo
When's waldo
Compared to some period dresses in movie history, they are actuaally more than good, tbh.
For once it's not a total disaster....wish the next movie if this franchise keep it up or even better not fall into the few mistakes they did in this movie
it was pretty confusing thinking the costumes were decent but then again i had dropped my bar way low after trying and failing to find something worth watching
Yeah I’m happy they put shifts under the corsets, thank goodness
It seems to me that most of the actual costumes were pretty good, it was just that there was no uniform era, even within a single dress.
And the corset "opPResiOn," of course.
@@sadiemcc9363 I rolled my eyes so far back into my scull with that one... My daughter rolled her eyes at my eye rolling XD
could yod do a video where you talk about "anne with an E" costumes
This show was so good. Wish more ppl had watched it, shame it was cancelled. Netflix darn you, there was room for two kick ass period drama girls, Anne and Enola. Sigh 😔
yes 🥺
"Default Victorian" could be a bumper sticker.
I like it
i remember during the fight scenes thinking like “at least she’s not acting like she’s suffocated by her corset”; it was nice to not have that hammered in like every other movie featuring them
It confused me when she like had to justify a corset as part of her disguise. I think that would be like if a contemporary character justified wearing a bra as part of her disguise.
Because she's proto feminist. Most people wouldn't relate to their fights if they didn't know the context well, which they aren't going to explain in a fun movie. So they throw speak points from other past feminists, namely the second wave, to reminisce of an old but relatable feminism. Burn all the bras!!! It was her first time wearing it. If a 16 year old was wearing a bra for the first time, she would definitely comment on it.
She's a child. A whalebone corset would be new for her at this stage of her life. She has dressed more as a country girl (a wealthy country girl) and changing to what was more high fashion would be restrictive. It's definitely bulkier and heavier and that does have an impact.
Not to mention, lots of people find bras really uncomfortable. I'd only wear one for dressing up or a sports bra for high intensity sport.
It's more like if you've always worn a sports bra switching to a pushup bra. It's not hurtful but it is less comfortable and you would only wear it for putting on a show
lets ficks yeah, as a 16 year old it would be more accurate to wear a corded corset but since she’s dressing to look older, it’s not necessarily wrong. And they use it as a plot device which wouldn’t have worked with a corded or lighter corset.
excuse me, free the nipples is very serious business to me, if you ever catch me in a bra, you better bet that I have a good reason at the ready.... Oh no, wait, big tiddies, back pain, bras are actually good and helpful oops
I think the costumes being all over the place is actually acceptable on account of how every 15 minutes she offers somebody money to swap clothes with her.
Love that part.
We actually do know when the movie is set. Right at the beginning it shows that Enola was born in 1884. She's 16 in the movie, so it's 1900.
Also, this is a “Netflix original” only because it was released on Netflix as opposed to the original plan to release it in movie theaters. Netflix acquired the rights later because that release was canceled due to ye old plague. They did not make the movie, which is a good thing in this case.
Tbh having watched the movie on Netflix it was a sweet movie, but at the end of the day it felt that it was a made for TV movie anyway. I definitely would not have paid cinema prices to see it!
Really? I thought they made the movie. It totally fit Netflix's vibe and used some actors that have contracts with Netflix
@@sofia_rms I agree; I was very surprised to find it wasn't made by Netflix, it has strong A Series of Unfortunate Events vibes with the styles of filming and storytelling!
Kelly Norman Damn someone’s a lil stingy 🙈
Historybounders: wHaT about ThE cOsTuMeS?! aRe ThEy AcCuRaTe?
Dress Historians: no... but yes? But no.
Me: why is no one talking about the plastic shotgun shells?
I was watching the movie with my mum and I thought the same thing!
Or the Royal Albert tea set in the Country Rose pattern that wasn't released until 1962?
oh yeah that irked me SO MUCH
*spits tea* the wHATTTT
what plastic shotgun shells?
Ok, this movie had me in unexpected tears when Enola went to see her little lord before he went to vote. It is a very sweet and fun movie, but holy cow were these costumes all over the place. I think what probably happened is the team over the extras probably knew their stuff and researched from pictures of 1880s street crowds, but the team over the main wardrobe probably just cherry picked from a box labelled "Victorian" lol. Also, I would love to see you do an analysis on the costumes for Penny Dreadful. Eva Green wore so many beautiful pieces in that show!
I was going to comment the same thing about Penny Dreadful! Everything about that show is so gorgeous.
When it comes to Helena Bonham Carter's outfits, I kinda thought she might be wearing some men's clothes, because her character is so eclectic.
I think the costumes department just raided the studio's costumes storage, took whatever moderately resembled 18th-19th century and mixed and matched a lot.
The Noobest Girl: I thought the exact same thing. This is not the movie a studio
would want to invest in a lot of newly made period appropriate garments.
probably, especially since it's just a kids' movie, and they don't care either way
There's some very harried and exasperated historical costumer who couldn't get the studio to listen to them, I can feel it.
I watched Enola Holmes yesterday and I was thinking "I wonder if Karolina will make a video about the costumes?" and the fact that you did just made me so happy
now i just want someone to have fun unpicking the bizarre journey of enola holmes accomplishing nothing, really, normally i'd just have fun watching someone else have fun hating on something, but i tried to have fun lovingly hating on something all by myself and my in-brain editing just aint cutting it
Exact same here 😅
I watched the film after this video because before I didn t know its existence 😂
The moment Enola said corsets are repressing I was like "I can't wait for Karolina to make a video on this"
You aren't saying the full quote. She said it's bad if you're forced to wear it. She doesn't like when she's forced to wear it but in the movie, when she gets to choose to wear it, she's happy
Purple Heart it really annoys me that everyone is just saying the first part of what she said and getting angry over it but if they actually looked at the second part of what she said they would realise that they are wrong and she said something truthful and most people would agree with it
@@Abilouise So true. People are just looking to get annoyed, angry and offended.
but “a corset a symbol of oppression for those who are forced to wear it”. I think it's "forced" in a way that it was an expectation of women, just as bras are today. There's a lot of people that think not wearing a bra is sloppy, or "slutty," when obviously that's not the case. It was same with women who didn't wear a corset under their dress. The fact that that was considered "basically naked" is evidence that it's a bit forced by society. But the thing is for small-breasted women like myself, there's really no physical need to wear any type of support most of the time, still if I live in that time I have to wear corset so it is oppressive.
Makes sense that the elderly ladies wear more old-fashioned costumes/hair.
Kinda wanna know about what you think of the costumes in "Anne with an E". I really love the clothing in the series, but I dont know if its even accurate.
i dont know much, but whenever i focused on one particular dress it looked as if it'd come straight out of a prior attires video and it was gorgeous
I love how they only have a couple of dresses bc they wouldnt have that much money
Bernadette Banner talked about them and she said they were fine
@@oscarwilde3670 She didn't really talk about them to be honest, literally just said "they're fine". I'd love to see an in-depth analysis though 🥺
omg yesssss please do ANNE WITH AN E, it would be much appreciated
Karolina: I'm not gonna review the men's clothes
Me, immediately, chanting: DO THE MEN'S! DO THE MEN'S! DO THE MEN'S!
me, a lesbian, utterly uninterested in man's clothes unless a woman is wearing them: the whose clothes?
na but seriously male fashion is actually really interesting
A lot of people are saying its set in 1900, but the latest 'reform act' before (older) women's suffrage in 1918 was in 1884 which would fit with Karolina's timeline. Honestly I think its just vaguely late 19th century and if thats the goal I think they used the costumes well to tell us about the characters.
I guess this fashion nonsense makes more sense from a storytelling / character design point of view 😂: using fashion from several decades at once gives you more options at making the characters more unique and match the looks with their personalities (and make them stand out better from the extras), and it also makes the viewer not being able to pinpoint an exact decade (on purpose), which in fiction I'd say is a relatively common thing. Doesn't mean I don't enjoy the roast 🤣🤣
The corset scenes are to reflect how she feels in society.
1st corset scene: assumptions about females in society, feels oppressed
2nd corset scene: realizes that corsets themselves are not oppressive, rather it's WHY we choose to wear them. She didn't feel oppressed because she wore it for her and realized that other women do the same. Thus busting her assumption.
3rd corset scene: Is being forced to wear a corset, so the scene is painful to show how something so beautiful (and useful) can become a chain when used improperly.
Final dress scene: she is, presumingly, wearing a corset again, but is free, dressing for herself rather than others. Thus the light colored fabric and undone hair.
Yes. And I’m with you. What I can’t figure is how she got into the first corset - unless the shop lady laced it and she just stayed in it, (was it the same day when she got stabbed?) but she can’t seem to figure how to lace the softer one.
@@lynn858 I think we can think about it like a tantrum. You can make a sandwich, but when you're angry/sad/depressed all of a sudden you are unable to open a bag of bread. Enola was very distraught in the scene, thus the corset was impossible to put on.
I really don’t think people watching it and believing corsets are torture devices will take the time to analyze it like that 😭
@ I just wanted to defend the movie as much as I could lol 😊
I totally agree.
To be fair, the whole quote is, "A corset, a sign of oppression for those _forced_ to wear it. For me, a good place to hide my mother's fortune." and the context is Enola is being forced into traditional female roles she wasn't interested in. In the end, though, she wears corsets while protecting herself and realizes their practicality.
But then we get the school corset scene...
Karolina Żebrowska True that school scene was... questionable, I choose to ignore it for my mental health. Love to self care🥰✨If someone asks I’ll deny it ever happened
@ the thing is though, aren't they explicitly saying that she HAS to lose a particular amount of inches around her waist when they first measure her at home? Maybe they are making her lace herself too tightly and that is why she is struggling? Or is that impossible with a corded corset? Just thinking out loud here
@@susanalopez5052 then it's the entire movie for me… unless I'd torture myself, which I'd never do.
@ You know what... you're right... yikes.
In the opening of the movie it shows she was born in 1884. Her mother disappears when she turns 16 so it would be 1900. I also think some of the costumes that don’t fit the time period were because people would often buy a good dress and wear it for many, many years. So not everyone would be wearing up to the minute fashion. Just my thoughts. I love everything you do!! You have opened a whole new world to me with the vintage looks and grwm’s from different periods.
Anyone else think the movie was trying for a sort of semi-timeless anachronistic feel? Maybe I'm giving them too much credit
Yes, I approached this movie (mainly because of the trailer) expecting it to be somewhat post-modern, kind of like A Knight’s Tale. So nothing seemed weird to me, lol.
The periods of the clothing seemed kind of symbolic too. The suffragettes dressed either ahead of their time or in an eclectic manner that disregarded societal expectations. Enola dressed behind the times when she was pushing herself into the "lady" mold, but ahead of the times when she dressed more comfortably.
@@edenfleck2918 yeah
@@edenfleck2918 and the rich family that had traditional values dressed in an old way
@@edenfleck2918 They were called suffragists in this time period
When I saw chemises under corsets in the trailer I died of excitement and had to be resurrected
our arms have tired from holding up the bar so instead we just put it on the ground for a while
I have to rewatch that video now xD
The issue with the Enola Holmes books is that we are never told exactly when the series takes place. We know that it takes place after Watson moves out of 221B to live with his wife. Which they supposedly (Doyle never gave us a real date) got married in 1887. We also can assume the story takes place before "The Final Problem" as Enola and others make no mention of Sherlock faking his death which happened in 1891. It also has to be before 1894 as that is when Mary is supposed to have died, allowing Watson to move back in with Sherlock. (Since in one book Enola meets Mrs. Watson)
Which could be the reason for the confused costuming. Or I am thinking too much into it. haha
Also to be noted is that the reason why in the BOOKS Enola hates corsets at first (and later comes to love) is because her first encounter with one is at the age of 14 (her age in the books) and was tight-laced by her nasty headmistress. When she runs away she takes her mother's old widow clothes as her disguise instead of a boy's clothes. She thought dressing as a boy was too obvious.
At the very beginning of the film, the scrapbook montage shows Enola was born in 1884, and she turns 16 at the beginning of the film. For this adaptation, at the least, the action is set in the summer of 1900.
My copy says it’s set in 1888 btw
there's a shot of sherlock reading a newspaper that says 1884 i believe
@@mathildedlihtam382 well then they got things wrong for the movie. Lol I mean she is supposed to be only 14
@@jordangilpin7803 oh! Good to know. I let someone borrow my first book and they never returned it. So I couldn't check!
Fun fact about the corsets from the books - she chose the "older" looking clothes because she had to look at least 22 years old to get around London independently even though she was just a teenager. The book also talks about how she chose to wear her first whalebone corset loose so that she could use the gaps to store ALL KINDS of things in (I'm talking ropes, daggers, cash, first aid, snacks - it's w i l d. They only ever show the cash being stored there in the movie)
The crinolines may also be a shoutout to one of the books - "The Cryptic Crinoline", which (no spoilers) involves a crinoline in the plotline :)
Why does she look like an older version of Millie Bobby brown?😂
I thought the same thing!!
Because she is
you must be forgetting the fact that Karolina is an immortal being who resides in past, present, and future. she is simply a older version of Milly Bobby Brown from an alternate reality.
Could the headmistress look like that because she was VERY conservative and thought the modern corset's curves be too promiscuous? That's the vibe i got from her while watching
Similarly, I am wondering if some of the strange choices in costume were to convey individual characteristics to modern audiences who largely don't have the historical context for the choices to be strange. Like the headmistress, her look is more severe and rigid and is older fashioned than many of the other characters while were she 'real' as a woman of means and social standing at the time, she would be keeping up appearances and striving to be up to date. Instead this vibe tells audiences who she is as a character and establishes her role in the story. Where as the women of the reform movement are hyper modern for the time?
Or maybe it's just not cohesively made and I'm reading to much into it.
@@ScribblerILM that is the same conclusion I've made!! Cause they definitely made at least *some* research, and as an animation student, I can't help but see the story-telling side of the costumes as well, shapes are essential to establishing a character's personality to an audience, and I am amazed at how they were able to do so with historic clothing!!
That’s the impression I got. I think a lot of the costumes are a mismatch of time periods, but for the headmistress in particular I think the choice makes sense - making her costume straight & stiff looking is something we’d do in theatre too lol
Hi @Clara. No, there's a part in the movie where the headmistress is taking Enolas measurements, finding them not "curvy" enough, but specifically says they are going to fix her with padding. So looking curvy, feminine and attractive was part of the curriculum.
I was also thinking when she said about the woman with the teacup in the beginning that it was a way older style, wouldn't that be because she is way older than the other ones and those woman don't have the finances to change style often or just feel like the modern styles aren't right or something? I mean I'm no expert ofcourse, not even a novice but the age difference and accompanied style difference seems logical to me
I lost it when Enola said "the corset is the symbol of female opression"
It’s not even worth watching new shows. Woke culture has infiltrated everywhere.
Eh though it redeemed itself when the corset saved her life tho
@@susanalopez5052 oh, that's true! I forgot about that scene
She did include "for those who are forced to wear them"
@@Patrick3183 woke culture is knowing that the corset question is a complicated one...
so one might say that Enola is just stirring awake.
I would love to see your opinions of the fashions in the Little House on the Prairie book series. It’s set in the 1870s to 1880s, and I loved the descriptions of the clothes they had. Especially the polonaise dresses. The illustrator got a lot of detail into those pages, especially considering that it was 50 years later, and I’d love to see your opinions.
And maybe the television show too because the mix of eras would definitely bother you.
Gdy tylko zaczęłam oglądać przez głowę mi przeszłą nadzieja, że nagrasz ten film! Super!
The reason why everything with the crinoline's was so ACTIVELY frustrating to me, is that they show that the creators didn't even pay much attention to what they were adapting. The second-to-last book is called "the Cryptic Crinoline" And part of the reason why its so cryptic is that its something that its otherwise fashion obsessed owner would have thrown out DECADES ago. Enola even comments such. So while independently it wouldn't bother me, they're actively ignoring very key parts to later books that add context in this series. That and a few other things, like how Enola makes a point to never disguise herself as a boy both because she finds it cliche, and because she was taught by her mother to feel empowered by her womanhood, the fact that the closes thing we get to a love interest is in the subtext between her and a Duke's daughter, she was never trained in fighting but rather made use of her brains combined with more feminine practices to solve her puzzles, including one where she saves Sherlock, and how bikes (Specifically "dwarf" bikes) which were such a profound early tool for women's independence, played key role in Enola's escape and uncovering what happened to her mother. This and all of the smaller details like her dog, her employees that become a second family, living in women scholars boarding house, her love for caricature drawing, the enola onscreen feels like a totally different character, which would be fine except that this one undermines many of the points about feminism and a woman's right to freedom of movement that was so important to her book counter-part.
Jujitsu was not part of the suffrigette movement until a good 20 years later but I think they wanted to include it so Enola could do some hand to hand combat. Overall I sort of like the inclusion of her knowing a martial art because jujitsu later became an empowering part of the suffrigette movement.
I totally agree with everything here - the other part that I just keep thinking about bothering me in comparing book and movie Enola was when she just stood there to get caught and sent to the school. She got herself into so many bad situations in the books because she was so desperate to not get caught. And there was such a missed opportunity to focus on historical dress with the parts where she was commenting on her mother's odd wardrobe choices and figuring out what clothes were missing (and the Mrs. Tupper part in the later book).
I find this really interesting as from what I've read millie loved the books and has wanted to make this movie for ages, this disloyalty to the book maybe unintentional at least I hope so
mist dragon I feel like there were sporadic moments that she nails absolutely spot on and really showcase her love of the books. Some parts I understand potentially why they changed, like switching out the mother running away to the Romani for the suffragists. But the books had such attenion to detail on Enola’s personal relationship to the way she dressed and expressed her femininity when she disguised herself, as well as her growth and learning from the mistakes she makes due to her naivete and emotional motivations for wanting affection from her family. It all seemed to be replaced with more bland, cliche plot points so she could make ’noise’ and change the world.
When I saw the promotional pictures, I always wondered why she dressed up as a boy when she explicitly said that she would never dress up as one. The closest thing we get to see her dress up as a guy was when she borrowed a cab driver's coat and hat to drive his cab around the East End. Also the thing I like best about her is the fact that she can craft the most convincing disguises that even Lestrade is fooled and everyone around her is convinced that she's a lady or a beggar or a nun, depending on the situation. The movie was good and there were points where she nails it as Enola but bookEnola would never wear that red dress. I really liked what they did to Tewksbury's character though.
The steam car they steal - that takes at least an hour to get ready. It’s steam. Fire heats water...
But that’s very action-movie kind of logic. All vehicles will always be ready for escape, no matter how complex the start up procedure.
But the owner of the vehicle was just encountered in the foyer shortly before, and while it's not specified that she had just arrived back from a trip it's a plausible explanation for both why the owner was *there* unexpectedly, why the car was conveniently sitting in the open drive rather than stored under shelter elsewhere, and why the vehicle was warm and ready to go.
And all vehicles will explode into a fireball if they crash, even if they are a bicycle. Its just the rules.
I need an analysis of Anne with an e because u feel like it’s the closest we can get to historical accuracy in the late 19th century
Karolina, I love your videos so much! I was wondering: would you be willing to do a Q&A style video where people submit questions about vintage fashion? *clears throat and hides all my questions*
accurate or not, i would die for tewksbury
.....still hated the “coRsEtS aRe a SyMBoL oF tHe pAtrIArcHY”
same! adored the movie but rolled my eyes at that comment lol
yeah...i mean, when will we start teach critical thinking? lol
I though it redeemed itself a bit when the corset saved her tho. Still not perfect but a step in the right direction
tbh saaaaame. cringed so hard when that came up......
good lord are you serious?! Do they really say that in the movie? ffs, that's it, not watching it now.
“Corsets are a symbol of patriarchy”
Ok I hated that though
Like you can’t watch anything nowadays without something like that
The screenplay was written by a man🤢(jack thorne) that's so gross 🤧
Pedoflix. Must be cancelled.
I loved the film until that point 😭
Woke shit has infiltrated everything
She said it in the film and my brain was instantly like “!!! NO!!!”
I'm not a fashion historian at all, and even I thought the red dress looked weirdly risque for the time.
Also you should do a costume review of the Canadian TV show "Road to Avonlea"!
What about "Anne With An E"?
I'm no expert and correct me if I'm wrong but although I am not well versed in fashion, I know a bit about martial arts:
Edith in the film is most likely based on Edith Garrud, the first female martial arts instructor in the west. She was trained in Bartitsu (a british style of Jujitsu that is only still remembered and is famous because of Sherlock Holmes) and she was the one that taught suffragettes to defend themselves when they were protesting so they wouldn't get taken down by police. However this fudges with the timeline of the film even more as Edith only started learning jujitsu in like 1899 and didn't teach until ~1910ish. This is real and theres a really good segment of Drunk History about it if you want.
Also also, I was very confused by the jujitsu uniforms in the movie because martial arts uniforms, called dogis or just gis, are based on japanese formal dress, the kimono, but were only really popularised with Judo. So the concept of wearing gis for jujitsu in this movie would have been Brand New in the late 1800s/early 1900s or not really adopted yet. Also the belt system you see in pretty much every martial art didn't show up until the 20s (again with Judo as it was the first SPORT martial art) because the founder of Judo thought it was really cool how master swimmers had a black arm band to signify rank and he copied that.
Glad the sporting outfits were somewhat accurate though! (Also if you read this far down into my ramblings, thank you but also why?)
You made an interesting and informative comment, is why. Most people wouldn't know historical details if martial arts, let alone the name of the first Western female practitioner.
Thank you! So I guess whoever wrote the story, threw together the most badass facts of the century, wich kind of screws with the timeline. Even as someone who doesn't know a lot of history, I got really confused by some styles.
I see Karolina, I click. To heck with reading the title.
Lol that's fair enough
Haha I'm one of your subscribers, I didn't expect to see you here 😂
@@kitclark4089 Oh hi! All The vintage people flock to the meme mother.
I love the white/beige dress! Also a nice hint at reform style, with her mother reading the reform magazine regularly
Great video! I was also wondering what you thought of some of the male costumes, particularly of Sherlock because his outfits looked a bit different from the ones I've seen in other Holmes renditions.