At our shop, powdered spray metal, on bores, and turned to slip fit. Not pressed fit. Our boss, had an end bell fly up to ceiling, come back down, on his head. Went down like a ragdoll, just laying there in a crumple, on the floor. Lots of selfies...RIP Dick Lake.
They have a crimped spring, that you don't through bore. But instead, leave a lip. Bore to size, and just snap it in. Old motors were heavy duty U frames. Nowadays, NEMA uses T frames. Higher rpm, means less coils, smaller diameter rotors, smaller frame. Also, higher voltage, smaller motor. 4160VAC motors, are noticably smaller. Those springs, saved a lot of time, when you do a lot of 48 and 56 end bells. Usually, the bearings start out with 6203s, then they up the shaft end a couple sizes up, on foreign motors, they mostly use the same bearing for both ends.
other alternate is to bolt any waste plate on the back, with a hole if you like for better fit. Can grab on that plate with outside jaws even on small chucks.
1800 rmp is for synchronist motors. Very few of those, the rotors have part of the squirrel cage milled off. A 444 T or a 445T frame is common for 100hp, six pole. Boring head is a option, if you don't have a large gap lathe.
the majority of end shields i do is turn your bush first, then chuck up end shield and bore, then push in sleeve and bore to size, it saves taking the shield back out if you dont have a second lathe, you get pretty quick at them after a while, also on the mill you can use a good brand annular cutter in a trammed decent mill to give you a quick bore and stick a sleeve in it. some clients dont want to spend heaps so just get the motor back up and running, depends on application obv. good video
Usually one end bearing is fixed, other end is spring washer. We would get Siemens motors brand new with shim stock factory used to dial in the bearing race. As a toolroom tech where downtime is dollars at some point we said if it was good enough for them... We used with varying degree of success cylindrical loctite on the sleeves. Would indicate on the bell lip and bore to final ID on lathe.
Our shop can do big endbells in medium size lathes, u don't grab on the radius, you mill slots into the radius and chuck up on those. You turn the OD of sleeves first, then dial in and bore the bearing housing, liquid nitrogen sleeve and loctite housing, tap in, low rpm spin for 10minutes, and then bore ID to tolerance.
@@rodiona8781 Time for normalizing temperatures between sleeve and housing, and gives loctite time to set up. Spinning low rpm so loctite doesn't puddle up. We don't key or index the sleeve to the housing in anyway, we rely on a slight interference/size on size fit. Red loctite the housing before tapping in the sleeve as insurance so sleeve won't spin. We're a motor/gearbox/pump shop, there's a lot of procedures that are followed set by people who have long since retired.
Looks really good. I have a thought you could bolt directly to the 1,2,3 blocks flip the housing upside down then use another set of 1,2,3 blocks and then just dial in the bore
6:24, what you do is modify an extra set of jaws by cutting out some of the steps so when you turn the jaw around what is left sticks out enough to get past the rad. Or get a set of master jaws and make top jaws for it, or just weld some bar stock on the jaws sticking out like pegs.
John, how do you drill and tap a hole inside the bearing bore? Would you drill and tap it at and angle, or have a short 90 degree drill/tap to accomplish the task, or otherwise yet different method? Might be a dumb question. Wouldn't come in from the outside, right? Thanks for all the nice videos
Why not bolt the bell to the faceplate on lathe? It is slower to adjust, but then you don't need so big lathe. I would prepare sleeve with under size hole and then press it on lathe with a tail stock. And then finish hole with boring bar.
You could do that, but they are asking about a best lathe to work on 100HP & save time, so bigger would be worth the initial cost as they have no lathe yet, and can select from several.
@@HOWEES Yes. But working on small parts with big lathe is no ideal, as you say your self. With a faceplate the work envelope of a small lathe can be stretched significantly. Making it in my mind more valuable. Everything just cost less and takes less space. I see that the 4-jaw chuck on your video has T-nut grooves on it. So it also can be used as a faceplate by removing the jaws. Of course this limits to motor faces with only four evenly spaced mounting holes. I would use fully threaded t-nut "bolts", with two nuts between faceplate and the work piece, and one nut outside the work. The two nuts between can be used to adjust wobble and runout.
Also a fixturing plate is a good idea. Make a round disc that goes to 4-jaw chucks reverse jaws. Then simply drill and tap holes directly to the disc, as is needed. Reasonable fast and very economical solution. Works also with 3-jaw chuck, but adjusting runout is more challenging.
@@aceroadholder2185 20:40 TO 20:44 "I don't want to go under 14 inch because the ones under 14 inch with one exception in history are normally pretty junky lathes" That sounds like a fairly generalized statement about the under 14" class of lathes not specific to just the making of sleaves for the motor bell housings.
Please help us out to learn a little more, I do not know about every lathe ever made, my statement was a little too general. Is the south bend 10 x 54, an old pattern, or one of the new Taiwan lathes? Does it turn 10" max. or is it like the 10EE at 12.5" ? What is the horsepower? How deep of a cut can you take in 1018 steel? what is it's minimum & maximum speed? Spindle hole size? Any other detail someone reading comments might want to know, Thank You.
@@HOWEES I only recently acquired this old lathe as part of a package deal with a Taiwan built 1980's Jet vertical mill bridge port clone, So I haven't taken any cuts with it yet but I can answer a little about it. My catalog number is CL8187RB. I believe that's a 10L Toolroom, UMD bench lathe, Code Designation RKL where R = 10 inch K = Quick Change Gear (QCG), Friction Feed Apron, Underneath Motor Drive (UMD) L = Large Spindle Hole, Standard Swing. Length of bed is marked 4 1/2 feet (54"). I have the steel bench/cabinet, a taper-turning unit (common with the tool room lathes). I'm not entirely sure but this might be referred to as a "Heavy Ten". I believe the 10L is a 1.375 inch spindle bore and can use 5C collets right in the spindle with a collet closer. I think the motor is a 2 HP, 240V but I haven't looked at the motor since putting it in storage while I build a space. I think the spindle speed is 55-1400 RPM but I'll need to double check that. I think it's a threaded spindle nose. and should be old casting pattern not the new Taiwan version built under the south bend name by Grizzly. My Jet 1336 PBD lathe is Taiwan built 1989 13" swing 36" length between centers, 2 hp 240V motor, 7 25/32" swing over the cross slide, 1 17/32" spindle bore, threaded spindle nose, with ground and hardened ways, Spindle RPM is 60-1240. I've only taken a few cuts with it with some mystery steel and it eats metal.
Alternatively, You could use nuts & bolts upside down instead of milling flats on the end bells. It would be slightly more challenging to get flat, but could work. Dealing with bearing issues myself on a 1000hp. It’s a 6220 bearing with K6 shaft fit. I personally think that the tolerance was missed a the factory causing fretting. My factory thinks it was over greased causing the bearing to over heat & loose its fit. Also congratulations on almost the Irish Twins.
"About" on your channel, does not take me to your email address. Only to a page with the you tube link to your channel as well as country, member since, and number of views. What is your email address? Thanks
At our shop, powdered spray metal, on bores, and turned to slip fit. Not pressed fit. Our boss, had an end bell fly up to ceiling, come back down, on his head. Went down like a ragdoll, just laying there in a crumple, on the floor. Lots of selfies...RIP Dick Lake.
Just another great video . Thank you so much . I sure miss working in machine shop.
They have a crimped spring, that you don't through bore. But instead, leave a lip. Bore to size, and just snap it in. Old motors were heavy duty U frames. Nowadays, NEMA uses T frames. Higher rpm, means less coils, smaller diameter rotors, smaller frame. Also, higher voltage, smaller motor. 4160VAC motors, are noticably smaller. Those springs, saved a lot of time, when you do a lot of 48 and 56 end bells. Usually, the bearings start out with 6203s, then they up the shaft end a couple sizes up, on foreign motors, they mostly use the same bearing for both ends.
other alternate is to bolt any waste plate on the back, with a hole if you like for better fit. Can grab on that plate with outside jaws even on small chucks.
1800 rmp is for synchronist motors. Very few of those, the rotors have part of the squirrel cage milled off. A 444 T or a 445T frame is common for 100hp, six pole. Boring head is a option, if you don't have a large gap lathe.
the majority of end shields i do is turn your bush first, then chuck up end shield and bore, then push in sleeve and bore to size, it saves taking the shield back out if you dont have a second lathe, you get pretty quick at them after a while, also on the mill you can use a good brand annular cutter in a trammed decent mill to give you a quick bore and stick a sleeve in it. some clients dont want to spend heaps so just get the motor back up and running, depends on application obv. good video
Usually one end bearing is fixed, other end is spring washer.
We would get Siemens motors brand new with shim stock factory used to dial in the bearing race. As a toolroom tech where downtime is dollars at some point we said if it was good enough for them...
We used with varying degree of success cylindrical loctite on the sleeves. Would indicate on the bell lip and bore to final ID on lathe.
Our shop can do big endbells in medium size lathes, u don't grab on the radius, you mill slots into the radius and chuck up on those. You turn the OD of sleeves first, then dial in and bore the bearing housing, liquid nitrogen sleeve and loctite housing, tap in, low rpm spin for 10minutes, and then bore ID to tolerance.
What does the low rpm spin for 10 minutes do?
@@rodiona8781 Time for normalizing temperatures between sleeve and housing, and gives loctite time to set up. Spinning low rpm so loctite doesn't puddle up. We don't key or index the sleeve to the housing in anyway, we rely on a slight interference/size on size fit. Red loctite the housing before tapping in the sleeve as insurance so sleeve won't spin. We're a motor/gearbox/pump shop, there's a lot of procedures that are followed set by people who have long since retired.
Looks really good. I have a thought you could bolt directly to the 1,2,3 blocks flip the housing upside down then use another set of 1,2,3 blocks and then just dial in the bore
6:24, what you do is modify an extra set of jaws by cutting out some of the steps so when you turn the jaw around what is left sticks out enough to get past the rad. Or get a set of master jaws and make top jaws for it, or just weld some bar stock on the jaws sticking out like pegs.
We have made lots of sets of deep jaws for end bells. Its time consuming but once you have them, you're laughing.
John, how do you drill and tap a hole inside the bearing bore? Would you drill and tap it at and angle, or have a short 90 degree drill/tap to accomplish the task, or otherwise yet different method? Might be a dumb question. Wouldn't come in from the outside, right? Thanks for all the nice videos
Just go at an angle, pretty has no advantage in this case.
another great video!
I am finding there is not much choice in 30 taper tools for a mill compered to the 40 and 50 in Australia
NT30 are hard to find, but much more stable than the R8 standard option, the NT40 is not offered on many of these machines.
When we would sleeve the end-bells, if we had enough material we would dutch-key the sleeve/bell. We'd use a set-screw with loctite.
Do you cover your stuff with rubber roofing that's the best rubber roofing
New to me ; thanks very much 😇
My workshop is 260 sq foot, its definitely too small but I make it work for what I do.
I feel for you I have about 218sqft. it's about 1/3 of what I wish I had.
On motors where damage is minimal oring groove and hard oring works well and its cheap, horses for causes
Why not bolt the bell to the faceplate on lathe? It is slower to adjust, but then you don't need so big lathe. I would prepare sleeve with under size hole and then press it on lathe with a tail stock. And then finish hole with boring bar.
You could do that, but they are asking about a best lathe to work on 100HP & save time, so bigger would be worth the initial cost as they have no lathe yet, and can select from several.
@@HOWEES Yes. But working on small parts with big lathe is no ideal, as you say your self. With a faceplate the work envelope of a small lathe can be stretched significantly. Making it in my mind more valuable. Everything just cost less and takes less space. I see that the 4-jaw chuck on your video has T-nut grooves on it. So it also can be used as a faceplate by removing the jaws. Of course this limits to motor faces with only four evenly spaced mounting holes. I would use fully threaded t-nut "bolts", with two nuts between faceplate and the work piece, and one nut outside the work. The two nuts between can be used to adjust wobble and runout.
Also a fixturing plate is a good idea. Make a round disc that goes to 4-jaw chucks reverse jaws. Then simply drill and tap holes directly to the disc, as is needed. Reasonable fast and very economical solution. Works also with 3-jaw chuck, but adjusting runout is more challenging.
How about if we put the flange side on the machine Hamill a couple Flats on the back then flip it over and clamp on the flats
if one needs to ask "what size lathe to use", one should probably stick to crocheting.
So a South bend 10x54" tool room lathe and a Jet 1336 PBD lathe are Junk because they are not a Monarch 10EE and are under 14"... Good to know
He didn't say they were junk. He did say if you are doing this class of work all day long there are machines you should be looking for.
@@aceroadholder2185 20:40 TO 20:44 "I don't want to go under 14 inch because the ones under 14 inch with one exception in history are normally pretty junky lathes" That sounds like a fairly generalized statement about the under 14" class of lathes not specific to just the making of sleaves for the motor bell housings.
Please help us out to learn a little more, I do not know about every lathe ever made, my statement was a little too general. Is the south bend 10 x 54, an old pattern, or one of the new Taiwan lathes? Does it turn 10" max. or is it like the 10EE at 12.5" ? What is the horsepower? How deep of a cut can you take in 1018 steel? what is it's minimum & maximum speed? Spindle hole size? Any other detail someone reading comments might want to know, Thank You.
@@HOWEES I only recently acquired this old lathe as part of a package deal with a Taiwan built 1980's Jet vertical mill bridge port clone, So I haven't taken any cuts with it yet but I can answer a little about it. My catalog number is CL8187RB. I believe that's a 10L Toolroom, UMD bench lathe, Code Designation RKL where R = 10 inch K = Quick Change Gear (QCG), Friction Feed Apron, Underneath Motor Drive (UMD) L = Large Spindle Hole, Standard Swing. Length of bed is marked 4 1/2 feet (54"). I have the steel bench/cabinet, a taper-turning unit (common with the tool room lathes). I'm not entirely sure but this might be referred to as a "Heavy Ten". I believe the 10L is a 1.375 inch spindle bore and can use 5C collets right in the spindle with a collet closer. I think the motor is a 2 HP, 240V but I haven't looked at the motor since putting it in storage while I build a space. I think the spindle speed is 55-1400 RPM but I'll need to double check that. I think it's a threaded spindle nose. and should be old casting pattern not the new Taiwan version built under the south bend name by Grizzly.
My Jet 1336 PBD lathe is Taiwan built 1989 13" swing 36" length between centers, 2 hp 240V motor, 7 25/32" swing over the cross slide, 1 17/32" spindle bore, threaded spindle nose, with ground and hardened ways, Spindle RPM is 60-1240. I've only taken a few cuts with it with some mystery steel and it eats metal.
You're giving up all my tricks
Alternatively, You could use nuts & bolts upside down instead of milling flats on the end bells. It would be slightly more challenging to get flat, but could work. Dealing with bearing issues myself on a 1000hp. It’s a 6220 bearing with K6 shaft fit. I personally think that the tolerance was missed a the factory causing fretting. My factory thinks it was over greased causing the bearing to over heat & loose its fit.
Also congratulations on almost the Irish Twins.
The last bell I repaired. I spotfaced the boltholes then made shouldered standoffs as feet.
There you go I suggested that before you got to it I'm a guy that can't get a job I am a guy that goes into a shop and I cannot get a job
👍
Do you have a pony tail,man bun,clean clothes,or an attitude?owners don’t want to deal with built in problems.
I think you're just about ready to get into that where your Mill flats and clamp it on the flats
Those cheap ass die cast end bells are a PITA. Probably just as cost effective to purchase a new motor if it's a common size frame.
There's also prescriptions to help fix your weird old bell end.
I tried that method. It worked great, tightened everything right up.
Odd that you know this?
Wiig¿
"About" on your channel, does not take me to your email address. Only to a page with the you tube link to your channel as well as country, member since, and number of views. What is your email address? Thanks
If you can't figure out his address does he really want to get your email? I found it in three minutes using Google.