Great discussion. I would just add that thinking, meditating and at least intellectually grasping that we *cannot* and *do not* exist as separate, in any way independent individuals can radically change our understanding of death. Terror of death comes hand in hand with individuality and both are illusory. Understanding that intellectually helps and inevitably leads to deep, complete, non-verbal realization of what is real and what isnt, also known as enlightenment. Thats _my_ current understanding.
Regarding the science on what comes after death, there are two serious organizations dedicated to the study of this: the International Association of Near-death Studies (IANDS) and the Near-death Research Foundation (NDERF.) Both are great resources for those interested in learning more on this topic.
People are social animals in life as in death. Every world culture has it's own take on death. Americans don't have a moral or social place to speak to any other culture or even individuals about something like death and dying. It's big business and will be so for a while. The fantasy of a cryonics or other methods of extended life would only be afforded by the very rich. So, imagine a world of ultra rich people that will never die and regenerate forever. Memento Mori.
Fortunately Jesus probably did nothing of this sort, so right-wing christians cannot so easily hijack Jesus from those who adore Jesus for his great humane qualities.
I, like many others, don't care that much about "conquering death" heroic activities but I do care about humble lives and taking care of others during their lifetime.
This just shows your ignorance of why He overcame death and became in a form in which He can live in us. You assume I am only talking about an objective matter that has no subjective relevance to man's daily life.
Jacques Wilmore Words like "ignorance" are easily used but do not by themselves constitute a useful argument. But I will bite: you accuse me of too much objectification. Your argument is not justified, as I do not "play the judge" about what's subjectively relevant to other people. I may openly doubt that Jesus overcame death - but I don't reject the fact that this belief may carry hope and be relevant to people. At the same time I believe that the approximately 5 billion non-christians in this world are entitled to their own subjective values and finding relevance in life without belief in a risen Jesus. I'm neither choosing pro or contra someone's faith, but I certainly do not single out one particular religious tradition against other forms of belief.
![ว้าว!ลุงบีมแบกทองมารับขวัญหลานกันยกบ้าน [cc] แดนแพทตี้ SS2 | EP.49 |](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Osihq1OAs-4/mqdefault.jpg)
Great discussion.
I would just add that thinking, meditating and at least intellectually grasping that we *cannot* and *do not* exist as separate, in any way independent individuals can radically change our understanding of death. Terror of death comes hand in hand with individuality and both are illusory.
Understanding that intellectually helps and inevitably leads to deep, complete, non-verbal realization of what is real and what isnt, also known as enlightenment.
Thats _my_ current understanding.
i could listen to Will Self talk about 2nd Division Romanian football
I'm glad I was taught by Will Self
Regarding the science on what comes after death, there are two serious organizations dedicated to the study of this: the International Association of Near-death Studies (IANDS) and the Near-death Research Foundation (NDERF.) Both are great resources for those interested in learning more on this topic.
'The science of what comes after death'. You mean decay? Because that's all that happens.
Brad Panter I don't know anything about the science that can tell the fact of fullfilmant of all available knowledge about a question, do you?
I know how Will Self felt at 7:30...
People are social animals in life as in death. Every world culture has it's own take on death. Americans don't have a moral or social place to speak to any other culture or even individuals about something like death and dying. It's big business and will be so for a while. The fantasy of a cryonics or other methods of extended life would only be afforded by the very rich. So, imagine a world of ultra rich people that will never die and regenerate forever. Memento Mori.
How boringly eurocentric.
Jesus overcame death. Don't love it so much. Sorry.
Fortunately Jesus probably did nothing of this sort, so right-wing christians cannot so easily hijack Jesus from those who adore Jesus for his great humane qualities.
I'm a left wing type. And I have no doubt Christ is risen and available and conquered death.
I, like many others, don't care that much about "conquering death" heroic activities but I do care about humble lives and taking care of others during their lifetime.
This just shows your ignorance of why He overcame death and became in a form in which He can live in us. You assume I am only talking about an objective matter that has no subjective relevance to man's daily life.
Jacques Wilmore Words like "ignorance" are easily used but do not by themselves constitute a useful argument. But I will bite: you accuse me of too much objectification. Your argument is not justified, as I do not "play the judge" about what's subjectively relevant to other people. I may openly doubt that Jesus overcame death - but I don't reject the fact that this belief may carry hope and be relevant to people. At the same time I believe that the approximately 5 billion non-christians in this world are entitled to their own subjective values and finding relevance in life without belief in a risen Jesus. I'm neither choosing pro or contra someone's faith, but I certainly do not single out one particular religious tradition against other forms of belief.