Pro Tips for Hirelings, Followers, NPCs, and DMPCs in D&D
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ส.ค. 2024
- Why might a dungeon master want to use hirelings, followers, or DMPCs in a Dungeons & Dragons game? In this video, we'll discuss this topic, along with some tips and pitfalls for using them. I'll also explain how I use allies like these in my D&D games.
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#dnd #dungeonsanddragons - เกม
What tips do you have for running allies in the game?
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In white plume mountain I played Flesh Golem number 9 like a total dumbass who was a drag on the party, I tried to do 2 things, 1. be funny and 2. If Googar the flesh Golem was really bad, my players would in comparison feel really good, long story short it failed, miserably.
Odyssey of the Dragonlords (NO spoilers) campaign has a TON of followers, not hirelings, followers. So the question for me was always how many do I let the party have? For now, the party can keep all their seperate followers on the boat, as sort of a stockpile or something. Then the party can take ONE ally with them per adventure (1 island and such) and the others stay back to help tend too and lead the ship. Kind of like a Mass Effect style of play if you have ever played that video game before.
I wasn't planning on having any followers in the current campaign I'm running, but I think I will have them gain a follower for the current adventure.
The Bard, being a bard, seduced someone to get some information, and they had a lovely time. Him being smitten with her seems reasonable, not to mention they are looking into his missing friend. Follower for the quest? Sounds like a yes to me.
(3 party members, all level 2.) I think I'll have him be a fairly weak rogue.
I agree DMPCs are pointless. I am DM
I got stuck with my party having a quite overpowered NPC at their side. It was rather a pet though. They had managed to talk the rather strong Elven Warrior, that had the stats for a tough potential opponent, into tagging along to investigate a mystical portal to the Feywild. So I threw a Displacer beast at them, to make it somewhat challenging despite the strong ally. But they all got big, shiny eyes and immediatly decided to try and tame the beast. They did manage to subdue it in the fight and rolled rather nicely to tame it. So I decided that they would have good fun with it and allowed it. Now with them being lvl 2 at the time, that creature could have probably soloed most fights for their level, so I made sure it just behaved badly and ineffective in fights. Like trying to push large flowerpots down the balkony of a countess or running off chasing siple does when the party set out to kill a mythical stag. One time it totally stole the show though, when they went hunting for boars. But they had decided to circle them in a way, that forced the ENTIRE herd to fight instead of flight and had the party barely clinging to their lives. I think they were rather happy that Havicandra killed most of them on her own. They did however never see a tuft of hair from that large boar they had her carry home ...
By now the power problem is starting to solve itself, because Monsters don't level up with XP and the group is catching up to its powerlevel.
I do need to give them a good bit of sharp looks in most fights though, i found, since it seems impossible to throw any monster at them, without at least one player going "Awww, it's so cute I wanna keep it!". Even if it is a giant reaperlike undead that eats souls. Should have made the campaign Pokemon themed, I guess.
See, I was pretty against DM PC's too... Until my party took that half-orc NPC drinking his sorrows away at the Whispering Willow Inn, and made him one of their own. They cheered when he crushed enemies with his wood-cutting axe, and fought ferociously by his side. So... I gave him a level in Barbarian. He always remains one or two levels behind the PC's, and I try not to let him steal the spotlight, but at this point, my party has turned the spotlight on him anyway XD
The same thing happened in my game, with a guard who fell off the defensive wall in the middle of a gnoll raid. The dice were smiling on him, and he not only lived, but killed 4 gnolls in the process. My players started calling him The Champion, then led them to name him Leeroy Jenkins, so I gave him a few levels in fighter after another mission where he helped them with some cultists in the same town, and they seem to absolutely love this npc now.
My brothers and I did that 35 years ago in a Star Frontiers game with a foot soldier named Buster Crabbe. We loved him. Took me 20 years to realize he was named after an actor...
I had something similar happen. I had some town guards help the party during an invasion, and all but 1 died. When the players were honored by the King for their actions and given an important task, they insisted on bringing him along. They named him, equipped him, had him on their ruling council when they founded a kingdom, the works. I always say to let the players make the choice, not the DM. If players like and want the character around, keep them around.
That's a party elected NPC. It's a little different than a DM forced insert
I suspect that an NPC that the party adopts (in context of the video) would be closer to a follower.
Most of the dmpcs that I come up with generally serve as a mascot for the party, usually with a limited scope. (E.g. the sentient AI that is the ship's computer.)
In my grown up game I run a DMPC who's role is to keep the party on their feet. He is a celestial warlock who has been commanded by his patron to travel and heal those who need it, so at the moment he's travelling with the party of 2 PCs. (When they get more members, he will leave them to it.) He's a warlock specifically because 'two spells slots' allows me to condense him into a stat-block.
In my kids' game I run 2 DMPCs, but in my defence they are a robot who blasts things and a barbarian bear. Very easy to run and don't really contribute to conversations.
Yeah, I had to run one for my siblings, as there are three of us all together. I try to keep them relatively quiet and only tell players what I thought was common sense that they didn't get. I try to stick to healer, or tank. Depending on which is missing.
@@masmurdermonkey9233 I feel like under the context of this that falls more into an NPC category, though. Even if they aren't weaker and are there for the full (Or majority) of the campaign.
The latter two sound fantastic.
@@masmurdermonkey9233 same. I have brothers and they use a rogue and a fighter so I want to use a DMNPC because they need a healer. I also want to give a chance to get hirelings by common goals money etc
I do the same! I have 2 DMPCs, a silly little kobold cleric that was basically adopted as the party pet (lol) and a minotaur artificer that mostly tanks and gives the others useful items! the kobold has low charisma so they don't talk a whole lot, and the artificer has narcolepsy and tends to focus so hard the world around him sort of falls away... So they don't talk a lot lol
I treat allies as disposable, and it's up to the players to keep em' alive in rough encounters. If the players care about the character, they work their asses off to keep em' alive.
In defence of DMPCs, they're not always bad. The only situations you described were the worst of them all. Currently I'm running a campaign that has a DMPC in it, he was originally meant to be a character the party just met in a shopping area and left to see later and do some story missions with, but the party ended up loving him and he turned into a DMPC. My point is that if it's done well, and the party is fine with it, DMPCs are actually really good.
And before anyone asks "AnD hOW eXAcTly Do yOU Do IT 'WeLL'?". It's actually really simple; just have them be in the backlines, DO NOT let them take monumental kills or do anything important, and do not give them plot armour, the only time you give them plot armour is if you're gonna kill them later for story reasons... Also, again, if you're really gonna make a DMPC, make sure that all the players are fine with it.
"...the only time you give them plot armor is if you're gonna kill them later for story reasons...."
Or do some other dastardly, drama-inducing, story-reason thing 😀
Though probably be careful about that, still.... the key is that it makes the game better for the players in the long run, and not just the GM.
It is easy to solve. Nothing has plot armour. If the players tell Gork the goon to shoot a dragon with a shotgun there is a chance they will kill the dragon. This is a good outcome. The alternative is that the dragon survived and eats a PC.
SO HELPFUL!!! I literally have a game in 15 minutes and needed to know a lot about this topic. Thanks, Luke!
No problem dude. Happy to help!
How’d it go?
I ran a one-on-one campaign once, where the player picked up various allies along the way. I won't lie, the allies were DMPCs. I thought it would be interesting and add depth to their characters to force them to pick classes as well as races - which it did. What it also did was mean that I had to spend hours out of game just building these character sheets and leveling them up, a mistake I won't be repeating. From a story perspective, I personally think they added - and not because I was running them. The player still made all the decisions, was the star in combat, etc. It was like one of those video games where you build a party and bring it with you, and your story and those of your party members tie into one another. They were strong supporting roles. They never killed the dragon or flew the spaceship (long story) _unless the player wanted them to._ I think that was the key thing: the player made the decisions. Because the player liked them - he thought they were cool, and when they had emotional problems in their stories, he would go and help them. And the story centered around him as much as it did around them. I think it worked out fairly well, story-wise.
I had a similar experience with a campaign I had that started with only three players. However towards the end two new pcs joined but then shortly after the campaign death spiraled because two of the players that were there at the beginning left.
That sounds like a great idea for a 1 on 1 game
I feel like the Anti-DMPC argument is one made all of the time yet bears little resemblance to the reality in modern gaming. If you have a DM who has a DMPC and can’t stop from doing all of the things that they’re typically accused of, they aren’t a very good DM. If you have done your prep work right and understand your position then from the players perspective the only difference between the DMPC and an NPC they might notice is a depth in personality and maybe a couple of abilities (depending on the game system you use). Also if you are using a stat block or a character sheet but you give that character a history, goals, personality and they are part of the group and the group treats them like a character... guess what? Regardless of the paperwork that character is a DMPC.
Exactly how I’m running mine. I’m running a hill dwarf circle of stars Druid, he basically heals the party, simple enough role to run, his backstory is more on the passive side than the active side, so his story doesn’t necessarily come up in the story but is intrinsically tied to the stories of the party so he develops as the party does without stealing the spotlight. The only thing I may have problems with is how far can he contribute in scenarios since against all efforts I’ll still be the DM and have DM knowledge.
In short: make the backstory be passive and mesh with the parties stories, avoid playing charisma characters to avoid the leader position, delegate your character to a particular role and stick to it, establish firm rulings for running your character and monsters so combat can be easier.
This. When he starts ranting about all the things the DM is doing badly with the DMPC, I'm like... nope, nope... aaand nope.
I am, arguably, "stealing the spotlight" sometimes. But I am stealing it? I mean, we're all in the same group. We all have the same goals - to have fun and to tell a cool story. We're all on one side. So that spotlight is as much mine as it is theirs, regardless of whether that spotlight shines on a super cool evil dragon that just chewed on a PC and flew away (and "stole the spotlight") or it's a DMPC who got the final attack roll and slit the dragon's jugular.
Yeah DMPCs are fine if you just use them correctly. All that stuff about them stealing the spotlight can easily be done with hirelings or npcs too.
What he’s describing is just called being a bad DM.
I've been running a full DMPC in the starter module and now a full campaign I run for my son. He runs 2 characters, and I let him be the 'leader' and make the decisions & choose the path. My Cleric has dropped below zero more than both of his combined. Also tailored some homebrew in there for my son's pc regarding his history. He's the star, the leader & makes the choices. It's been great & tons of fun. Don't be discouraged to play a DMPC because of common conception...as long as you do it right.
We can’t keep a group together. (Different schedules for our D&D player friends, and very little interest from other friends) means my fiancé and I just run games for each other. Seeing as we have 1 player Allies are necessary.
What perfect timing. Long story short, the DM of our party of 3 had to drop us, so since I was the only one with any DM experience I just took up the spot for the group (now of just 2 players) So these were some good ways to think of running my old character at the game.
We've only done one session so far, but with taking the back seat and getting downed in the 2nd round of combat by a nasty crit I had to swear to the players I wasn't purposefully trying to kill the party's healer.
Lol, only a few hours in and they assume you've developed a taste for PC blood. Like you got bitten by a DM werewolf and stop being a civilized human being every time a gaming session rolls around..
@@ericness9660 Then that night while they were trying to rest up, and got ambushed in their camp, there was a 1 in 4 chance it'd attack the tent with my old character, and it went for that tent (after rolling a d4 to decide) and there were 2 people in there, I flipped a coin. Heads it attacks the dwarf, Tails it attacks the healer (my old character) And well of course we all know what happened, got downed again because of already low health from the previous fight.
Kill the cleric. The mark of a true DM. Lol. 😂
@@deathbyspuds i was just saying a dmpc for balance reasons only and dice to keep it fair, i am glad your not protecting or trying to kill the character on purpose.
I hope you are keeping to perception and wisdom checks when they ask for help with puzzles and go no further then a hint with a successful roll or a useless shrug with a fail.
Remember treat it like a hireling that has player states that the best way to think of your dmpc.
i have a dmpc just to help out my players on stuff but in the 2nd session he got knocked out and managed to succesfully get his saving throws, i never fudge or hide my die so my players know they are at the mercy of it and not me.
I've been into DnD for about 7 months and have two friends that were interested after all the fun stories I told them from the games I'm in. First time DMing for them.
So I made a Life Cleric as a DMPC to keep them alive. I was upfront and told them his role was to help in combat and heal, outside of combat he won't do anything to help unless requested and he takes a back seat.
I then told them, if you guys die, he will revive you, but if he dies... you can't revive him and you'll no longer have the benefit of revives, in essence, the training wheels come off. The cleric will also prioritise saving the party and sacrifice himself if need be. Which serves to make them think a little harder about their own safety.
As far as loot goes, they get the lions share, cleric gets the smaller share.
So far, they've needed one resurrection and the cleric was incapacitated once.
I think a DMPC can be good if used for the right reasons and the DM isn't attached to it.
SO HYPED for the next one! Groups falling apart is such a huge problem everywhere.
Also this vid was great because i always though my DMPCs were too overbearing in the campaign,but turns out i was just running regular old npcs how i should. :P
Yeah, groups falling apart is sad and there are lots of things DMs can do to prevent it from happening. (Man I'm such a tease. Lol)
Speeking of Im looking for players for a twitter campeign. Ive sent out the call I hope any interested parties answers
Why does the barbarian ask, who'll be the one finding traps? He has the biggest HP pool...
With the joke out of the way, some ideas possibly worth considering:
1. Make the allies constructs, undead or something similar that might fit. Is the campaign going towards the finale at a rapid pace? Does the group feel unprepared for what is to come? Are they outnumbered 10 to 1 in the upcoming assault on the bbeg's mage tower / castle / city? What incredible coincidence that the party's wizard, artificer or warlock found that weird book on golems 3 adventures ago and those materials necessary to create one only very recently. And how much the spiritual barbarian has waited for the time he could fight side by side with his ancestors for once by using the very conveniently placed horn of the storm caller to summon a small army of ghosts
2. Make the allies minions or swarms. This is more of a mechanical reason, as it simply increases the flow in combat. When banners of opponents face each other in combat, we don't want to roll for each and every soldier for obvious reasons. But in certain situations - like the assault on a throne room - fog of war is not the way to go in my opinion. On the other hand this also disincentivises strong DMPCs; no one wants to indulge in a character that only has a single hitpoint
Swarms of allies would be fun. Would just need some simple rules to streamline their integration into the combat system.
Swarm of allies is good but you have to make swarms of enemies as well
@@maxdragonslayer While that is not necessarily true (a group could bring a small army of slaves that you could treat as swarms against 2 dragons that you wouldn't treat as slaves), when you pit large amounts of similar soldiers against the party and their allies, you should think of both sides as hordes
@@ratman505 I dont think I follow?
@@maxdragonslayer I'm just saying that you don't need to pit swarms of allies against swarms of enemies necessarily, in case the villain is strong enough or suited to fight hordes of opponents
I'm unfortunately, a ForeverDM; and I have lots of character concepts that I have never had the chance to try out. But I have had an opportunity to use those concepts in what feels to be a balanced manner. I took heavy inspiration from the Sidekick rules found in the Essentials Kit for Dragon of Icespire Peak.
In Dragon of Icespire Peak, you are told of 3 different types of Sidekicks/Followers that you can acquire: Expert, Spellcaster and Warrior. For a run-of-the-mill NPC.. practically nameless, I use these rules as written--with a cap of 6th level being explained that an average person can only get so powerful and have a limit. Only exceptionally gifted people can go beyond 6th level.
With these rules, I include a 4th category of followers: Unique followers. These followers are more tailor made: being made similarly to a player character (which means they actually will have LESS hit points than a standard sidekick), with a few exceptions: I make an effort to lob off niche abilities from these NPCs. They will have a smaller spell list than a typical player would; these NPCs can be replicated by a player, but the goal is that if they wanted to make them, that their version will be stronger in someway.
Just like a regular sidekick, Unique followers level up with the character. Players can come across a Unique follower that is a level or two above them; but these can only be found as a a quest reward. This usually means that they are captured, and due to only being a level or two above the party, will not be vastly more powerful. Players will also be warned that these locations to find them, are likely very dangerous and can be deadly if they aren't careful. These unique followers that they gain through these rescue quests will not gain "levels" until the players match them: as a means of trade-off.
These characters will also have some quirk about them that makes them better suited to be in a group, and makes them take a backseat in most cases. And as these followers are a framework of builds that I would want to play myself, I am not going to give them plot armor to keep them alive; I'm more likely to kill them off to help raise the stakes.
EDIT: I should mention that the party I'm utilizing these followers is undersized (2 players), which is the only reason they're accessible. If the party has at least 4 players, the NPCs would say "I think you guys can handle it" and will not join them. They also will only typically get 1 NPC follower to tag along.
As a foreverDM, I also have a particular love for non-optimal character builds. These actually make great hire-ons, particularly if you give them reasons why they're more suited to a backseat role, such as unmotivated but in debt, uncontrollable wanderlust, or simply being a totally unsuited for adventuring, like an Enchanter wizard with a low save dc
I have a pair of newer players that are going through a modified Icespire Peak right now, and have a handful of followers that they can choose from.. which include:
====================
1. Bladesinger Wizard (Eladrin) that is pretty reserved and very into the concept of bladesinging.. his major flaw is his rather skittish nature when pushed into stressful situations. In the first session where he was brought along, he got caught trying to sneak around, and made a bit of noise taking out the bandit. Lot of lore and knowledge, but can sometimes panic in real-world scenarios. He's also a Wizard.. so valuable as hell to have around.
2. Ranger/Rogue (Shifter, but re-flavored to be an "Awakened Beast") which is made to be a type of quadrupedal animal that gained sentience. Was experimented on and tortured, but still retains a lot of tendencies of typical animals, so prefers to take orders, nap when given the chance, and various other 'simple pleasures.' makes him a good follower, and has this Red XIII thing going.. He was introduced as a plot-hook about how these 'awakened beasts' are created.
3. Ancient Paladin (Half-Elf) is probably one of the 'stronger' followers, but is the younger brother to a quest-giver that helps get information for the party. He's very headstrong, and not a fan of trying to sneak around. He tends to think in a very straight-forward manner; very Goku and Gon in terms of simple-minded. The guy isn't stupid, just prefers simple solutions. He's a paladin, but has the Protection fighting style, which has saved the party on several occasions. His pool of healing has also kept a player or two from dropping dead when it mattered (one player got gored by Petunia, the Cow due to a terrible Animal Handling check.) I did NOT realize how much strength and damage a cow did.. so it KO'd the player.. who was over 60 ft. away from the party when this happened. So I had one player nearly bleed out because of a cow..
4. Totem Barbarian (Dwarf) is the most rambunctious out of everyone listed. He's loud, a drunkard, and highly values people that are willing to match his brute-force approach to most situations. He is good friends, and drinking-buddies with the Paladin listed earlier. His biggest issue is when there's stress, he won't panic like the Wizard, but he will drink.. and he can drink a lot. He will NOT leave town without a keg on-hand. This means a lot of the time, he will have a moderate buzz when travelling and exploring. It will not hinder him in battle, but it does mean he lacks impulse control when it can matter most. So.. best not to have him talk or check for traps. However he did help when meeting the dwarves at the excavation site.
==================
I make sure that its clear they have faults, and will clearly thrive when given a person to follow. This helped one player immensely, as he is much more likely to follow everyone else. These followers have put him into a position to be a face for the group, and he has had some good moments that came from it.
EDIT: formatting.
I'm going to briefly, and very conditionally, defend DMPCs, in the context of a DM who can be actually responsible with it. I will note that I personally have never run a DMPC, but our group's former DM (who is now a player himself since I took over running games) did use one in a year-long campaign, as did one of our other players when he ran a short campaign for our same small group.
There were a few reasons why this was able to work:
1. Everyone was on board with it from the beginning. We discussed it during session Zero and everyone wanted the DM to be able to play too.
2. We'd all known each other for a long time and trusted the DM not to be an attention hog or take away from the players enjoyment.
3. There were only 3 players and a DM, so a fourth PC would go a long way to balance the party, especially since none of us were comfortable playing caster classes back then.
4. Our DM kept his character mostly low key and avoided metagame behavior, and only got active verbally when we were just enjoying RP together.
Considering how much I have to keep track of already, I don't plan to ever run a DMPC myself, but I have seen it done in a constructive and reasonable way. Our DM was basically treating his PC like a hireling that leveled with us though, and it was a conscious effort on his part not to make it a problem at the table.
That said, I have heard many many horror stories of how a DMPC can go very wrong and ruin a game, so I would still consider it a "proceed with extreme caution" sort of thing. Definitely not something an inexperienced DM should attempt, nor something that should be done without all of the players being on board.
I often use DMPCs in my campaigns for different reasons. My last campaign (a module) had a character which would have been a DMPC - but she died in a tough fight and I used the character's death to illustrate a point of lore which has been an abstract one until that point. :)
@ingakozuruba9145 In the years since posting my original comment, I have actually run a psudo-DMPC myself. She was originally just a recurring NPC quest-giver and useful source of occasional assistance, but the party kept integrating her more and more into their quests and their activities. It was definitely a hard balance trying to keep her as an NPC without hurting the story the party was creating together. We made it work, but I definitely had to keep a long-view of the plot, and player fun, in mind while the party had her around.
I'm guilty of DMPCs. In my defense, they were never overpowered (generally they were the healer support role) and it's because I was always the DM and missed playing. Now that I'm playing as well, I can retire my DMPCs and enjoy the game as intended.
One DMPC was a druid/life cleric. I also let the players choose their share of loot first before I make requests. And the only one my DMPC is interested in increasing his healing.
I was thinking that I am using a DMPC in my campaign, but I guess after watching this video its more of an NPC. For instance he is standing in the background all of the time and I dont have a charactersheet.
Thank you!
Sounds like an NPC to me. 😁
@@theDMLair Now I know. He is kind of a hero too. Just like the PCs. I have to few. The module asks for at least 4 chosen ones and I have just 3 players. Nut after all my ego gets enough EXP through all the cool NPCs. I dont have to shine with yet another cool dude in the spotlight :D
Thank you again and until the next video.
12:20 : instructions unclear turned them into a zombie
Served them right! 😂
Zombies, now that's a problem I have with my groups.
They rely too heavily on undead or automations to fill their party roster. (Read: Army) even when allowed to have groupies.
Ahh the rare instance though where the Hireling actually takes the spotlight. The key indicator when your doing it exactly right is when even the Party is cheering along.
It seems that, in general, you want to be resistant to the spotlight at least. If the Hireling deserves the spotlight will entirely depend on what the party thinks about them, the situation, and how often it happens.
I'm currently running a long D&D5e campaign. And I mean long. We're playing every Sunday for 5 hors and have done so für 2 years, and my story isn't even half done. I've used NPCs that were stronger than the party to show( don't tell) them stuff about my world. That might have been wrong, it did take away the spotlight during the specific encounters. This is my first campaign, so...but it has been a fun way to give guest players a really powerful character sheet and a moment to shine, and to progress my story:)
This channel is always so much fun. Dude if I wasnt in Alaska I'd really push to play dnd with you. Im agreeable.
Thanks dude! 😁
When my groups DM plays as a PC, they always make their character the equivalent of a partner (to fill in the second character spot. playing a single player Champaign is not as fun) Or the "Sidekick" type of character (someone who follows the lead of the actual PC's instead of being a main character) Like William Turner in the first Pirates of the Caribbean movie.
Played "Lost Mines of Phaldover" with an acting-DM while the main one tried to deal with some Creativity Block. During the campaign, the real DM got an idea to help rescue his halfling paladin's mentor as part of a mini-campaign - we agreed to run it after the LMoP story was done. First thing he did - got his character arrested (more like turned himself in) as part of a distraction so that the players could slip past the gates of this city. This allowed the rest of us to explore the city - the acting-DM turned an NPC companion we had (a goblin) into a lower-leveled PC who hid in the backpack of our half-orc war cleric.
You know, I would love a video on running enemies with objectives.
Recently had a game session I was playing in, and (suddenly) the game turned into a chase with 6+ encounters without a rest of any kind, going from one encounter, long rest.
Waterdeep dragon heist. First was an easy combat, 3v1 against a swashbuckler (enemy was rrying to escape, but sentinel.). Then 2v6 against bugbears. Went much worse (they thought we were agents of another organization, case of mistaken identity). Then we broke into a hideout, and fought 3v7 thugs. Went...ok. (we broke into their hideout, they were defending themselves). Another chase. Twice.
The last combat is the one that broke the camels back. 5 (two of us rolled secondary characters since the third player was flakey) versus 9 thugs. The initial 3 characters had no spell slots, and low hp. We had an enemy bard we captured, who got away in the second round of combat. They continued to fight after that, to the death. First of all, it was going horribly. The module had written to throw a few allies in if the fight goes poorly (it did). It ended with the *entire* level 4 party having 7 hit points, collectively, and 2 spell slots (one of which was second level saved for prayer of rest by a grave cleric in case we did survive).
My problem isn't the amount of deadly encounters thrown one after another with no rest, though a bit of throwing us in the deep end. My problem is that I can't logically figure out why they were so determined to fight us to the death.
I used to have every enemy fight to the death. IN the last decade or so, I have put more thought into things, and have intelligent enemies that are losing the fight seek a way out of the situation, be it negotiation, flight, etc. And if the objective was to clear The Caves of Woe of all bandits, and some of the bandits flee while others change sides, they get the full xp for "clearing" the caves. I prefer the phrase "beat the encounter" over "kill the enemies" because it reminds me that I have flexibility. And sometimes the encounter is a trap.
@@MonkeyJedi99 Exactly! It also gives those players that want to negotiate or intimidate a but more potential. Break their moral, and you've won.
For example, in the session I run, they're just starting, and going to fight against 4 bandits and a thug. Thig is the leader of course. This is a hard fight exp wise, and most of the players are new and this is their first fight. If they take down 3 bandits, or the thug and a bandit, they'll break away, grab their allies and flee. They want the PCs money, but it's not worth fighting to the death over. There'll be easier prey
One time I had to run in DMPC because the party didn't wanna run any heavy hitters or bulky characters that could heal and I don't have access to a lot of the books so I made a paladin that was just basic stats and everything to help the party out but what I did to balance it out is that I made him super non materialistic and his character mainly just wanted to kill monsters to get revenge for his family and if he wasn't needed he went away for a little while Also he was designed to make the other characters abilities shine more than his
DMNPCs are the tabletop RPG's analogue to the writer's self insert character. When authors make the story all about the perfect version of themselves, it insults the audience and degrades the story. If someone don't like Wesley Crusher in Star Trek then it is reasonable for them to dislike the DMNPC that the GM puts in a game.
DMNPC's sound like a good idea to new DMs because it lets them play the game too. New DMs should keep in mind that they have all of the NPCs, monsters, setting information, descriptive narration, challenges and story to concern themselves with. In addition they should be considering who the player characters are, and giving them hooks for player character story arcs to follow. DMs have a lot of plates to juggle, and are already a participant in the fun of the game with the rest of the party.
Huh. I liked Wesley Crusher. I also like Phantom Menace and The Last Jedi (other than the dumb space battles)
I often use a Bard DMPC. It allows me to have a voice in the group which makes exposition and lore much easier when it's coming from a trusted source and not some random NPC at the tavern. Also, since he is there to record the deeds of heroes without being a hero himself, it's easy to make sure that his voice isn't more important or even as important as the PCs, generally staying in the background to offer inspiration during fights or occasionally offering assistance when the PCs need to make a diplomacy check.
You sound as though you've dealt with DMs who've misused a tool in their belt and got pissed at the tool instead of the DM (or yourself).
This was a load of help! Thanks! I recently made the mistake of making a DMPC, and after the first session and the reasons in this video I will never again!
The caracter my group loves the most was... a DMPC of mine. It was a sci-fi game, and she didn't start that way. She was a mid-level emploiee at a megacorp that helped the party remotely as her job. She cordinated between companies to get them their supplies, helped them find sponsors for their colony's development projects, and other paperwork things like that. That all changed when the corp office was raided and I elected to randomly roll to see what she'd do when goons came running into the building to steal data and kill people. Well on the way out she overheard the goons where there to steal data about the players, so she snuck into the server room and moved all their files to the only portable storage drive she had... a cybernetic chip in her head. She then went through the plot of Die Hard trying to get away while being on the phone to let the party know what was happening.
Yeah... the party wasn't having someone that helpful get fucked over and went to help REAL QUICk, and just... never let her go. I was forced to stat her as a PC so she could do the things the party believed she could do already (from her escaping those enemies) and she became the sci-fi-rogue's protoge.
I run a Barbarian Goliath in my 5E homebrew campaign as a DMPC, and I make sure that his "character" acts as his backstory and his barbarian nature imposes him to, he generally will fight in the front lines, has nearly died on a number of occasions. When he enters a rage he loses all thought of mind and will attack until he leaves the rage or is knocked out. I try to treat him more as a Hireling/Follower who has a stat block. We are only a small group though and we trust our play style doesn't effect or make the real PC's feel underpowered.
And with the setting there is a fair chance he will leave the party at some stage to return back to his people for his side quest. But yes I believe with the right group, and the right mind frame that I would protect my own player character. Like I might know a horde of zombies is coming but I don't make him setup out of harms way if the going gets tough.
the essentials kit(dragon of icespire) has a mechanic now for Sidekicks , which essentially are a rogue,fighter or wizard/cleric build with standard array for stats( no 8 )... they have leveling mechanics too , ASI and extra spell list access, even up to higher levels... it seems like they tried to organize a hireling stat via this. they even included ideas for flavor text(flaws/bonds)
Idea for a DMPC: A 20th level character who DOESN'T travel with the party but rather taunts them at lower levels and gets crap tons of renown so that when the players of high enough level they can beat the crap out of the DMPC and it will feel good that "holy crap! They just beat that legendary adventurer! They must be super powerful!" Have the DMPC as an optional boss fight.
I like this idea. I also like to add a few mid-level NPCs (levels 8-12) for my fresh players to interact with. I like to let them feel the satisfaction of surpassing characters that they looked up to at the start of the campaign.
@@aWalprod yeah and it would also flesh out the world a little like you're not the only adventurer's out there. Omg adventuring celebrities who do autographs or make appearances at gear stores.
@@martaneon5310 ok, I'm using that in my next campaign.
That's not a dmpc. That is a npc villain.
I did an ally npc once. On session 1 introduced an npc character when all the PCs were meeting for the first time. They were in a caravan on the the way to help a village that had in dire straits. The caravan is attacked by a large number of bandits. I used the veteran stat block for the character. At level 1 he was stronger than the rest of the party and mowed down several bandits single handedly. After the combat the BBEG came with reinforcements; I wanted to display the BBEG's power, so I had the NPC recklessly charge forward to take him on. The BBEG slew him with a one two hit and this put the fear in the players causing them to run. I wanted to teach them that not all encounters are made to be won and retreat is a valid option. It was pretty successful and also it got them to band together. They even had a funeral for him at the end of the session. It was a great session 1. Only time I've used an npc
I only once used a DMPC. It was during Curse of Stradh and used her to fill a hole of the healer. The party itself grown on her. When the time came, just before reaching the castle she fall down a bridge and died. The entire party was devasted. Myself too. The defeated stradh and all they agreed to keep her in their memories ever after.
It was a such a bittersweet ending.
Your intros keep getting better and better. I'm loving it!
Dude, you are quickly becoming one of, if not the, best D&D channels around. Keep up the amazing work!
I dmd and played a cleric in my first session for dragons of stormwreck isle campaign, it was our first time so everyone was learning and I thought it was really neat that as a cleric I could share some information with other players, like that zombies are only killed with crit or radiant damage. I ended up sending one zombie sailor straight back into the ocean with turn undead, merely double tapped the second one after my players did most of the work, and my gf rolled a 18 or 19 which I just considered it a crit and let the third zombie die for good, especially because she described her finishing blow as being very brutal. Also because there were kids playing with us I just felt like I was gently guiding and assisting them in whatever they decide to do, it was super awesome. A little girl wizard player said she had 3 magical pets and I think it was the owl or the wolf who could cast magic missile on her turn, I thought it was so cool.
Following this definition what I call my DMPC is an NPC. He does have a character sheet and he is overpowered. However, he does take a back seat on combat and is more of a teacher seeing how his pupil are doing.I actually like hoe this shows the players they are not almighty, while still allowing them to have all the spotlight moments.
I also didn't give him plot armour, but he is not realistically going to die at this point of the campaign. I do not level him though. The PCs will eventually surpass him. I hear you though and I will be extra careful not to make them feel insignificant.
I tend to introduce allies (or "tag-alongs", as I call them) for either story reasons or to fill out a smaller / unbalanced group's skills, but I definitely agree that it's important to keep them reeled in, especially if they are meant to be with the party long-term. If it seems appropriate or opportunistic to introduce one in the campaign or quest, I make a point to discuss with my players if they would be okay with having a temporary / long-term tag-along, and how involved they'd want the character to be, if so. Sometimes that means tossing out / adjusting ideas on the fly, if the players would prefer not to have any tag-alongs at all, even for a short quest. Though, I have also had a case when a group that already had a permanent hireling decided they wanted to hire another to join their party for the foreseeable future, simply because they could afford it - and both of these hirelings were subjected to a lot of player-initiated RP, as well as being utilized by the players to the full extent for their respective skill sets. Every group varies, I suppose.
Whatever the case, I like being open to tag-alongs of all sorts. It's just a matter of making sure that players are okay with it, they are virtually at the players' command in combat / skill scenarios (if capable of either), non-essential in the event of death or story departure, and available for RP without ever making the important decisions.
I played in games where the DMP(s) were used . My understanding was that the DMP was never the group leader ; doesn't try to solve puzzles ; not rolling for perceptions. Has to play dumb to an extent and only goes along with the party's decision on what actions that should be done.
They don't make any decisions for themselves.
In battle the DMP only attacks random monsters in a group or if the leader of the group has the DMP attack a certain creature.
The DMP never checks for hidden doors, pits and traps; unless the leader of the group asks the DMP to do so.
A possible workaround for DMP(s) to play in an adventure could be to have 2 dungeon Masters. A and B. Or prime and/ or secondary dungeon master.
When one DM (a) is playing his/her character ( DMP) in an adventure. Then another player will take total control of that character.
Then in the next adventure the other DM (b) takes over the adventure. That DM (a) is now the player and can now have total control over their character and so on and so forth.
literally just thinking about this, exactly what I needed. Thank you.
I currently have a party of 2, so I make use of NPCs quite heavily. The first session was a murder mystery dinner party, and at the end I let my players decide, if any, NPCs they wanted to join them on their quest. I prewrote some backstories for the NPCs (especially since they were part of a murder mystery) and whether or not they'd likely follow the party. They had 3 NPCs follow them, at their wish, for a couple sessions, before I sent them off to do their own thing, and the players got to level up.
We just finished session 7, and introduced a character that was a long lost brother to the two players (who are sisters). At the end of the session, I asked my players what they want they wanted out of this brother long term, and they want him to stay around the party as an NPC.
Whilst this character does have their own motivations, I'm actively giving them the ability to decide what how involved NPCs are with their party. It's established that their brother is very separate to the main plot (as they found him in a town that was stuck in a time loop for many years). But I'm still trying to find a balance.
It's my first campaign & first time DM'ing so I'm constantly asking for their advice. My general rule of thumb is I don't care about the rules as long as the players are having fun. Additionally, they are also DN'ing campaigns I'm in, so we all know what it's like to be a DM, and we're all fairly new at it.
But I value videos like this, because I do get critiques now and then from my players, but they're not usually followed with how to improve, just with what they have issues with
Been part of a session where the DM wanted to play allies as well. He’d sit there for ages just talking to himself lol
I'm a beginner DM and this is super helpful. I've a couple of allies planned for one part of my session, but they're not for combat purposes, other than securing the entrance to a place.
I'm glad that you mentioned that you ran your own dmpc, and I have to agree with all the points you made here with the minor exception on the experience points for hirelings/followers, generally I give hirelings and followers 1/2 share or 1/4 share depending upon how much risk they take. I'm talking about party hirelings and followers, as you might have others to watch the horses, or provide specialized service on the road that isn't risk oriented. I also love to return to hirelings and followers in future episodes and let how the players treated them determine future interactions.
The exception I have on the DMPC is for small party to fill gaps as you mentioned. My major issue though is that sometimes as the DM I'll create a situation that the players are supposed to figure out based upon clues and if they don't I'm tempted to either help or not help figure out the answer and feel that is a bit of cheating. I think it's been close to 25 years since I did a DMPC for all the reasons you mentioned. It was fun as a new DM, but bogging down, meta gaming, and not getting the satisfaction of "playing" because you don't want to show up the players just made it a chore, hirelings and followers is much better way to go about it. (although the players control in combat has to be limited, as you mentioned, they aren't going to be suicidal)
This is my first time DMing using allies. The reason? Teaching my 8 year old son how to play during the lockdown. We are binding, he is learning, and I get to brush up on being a DM. Thanks for the help on how to do this properly.
Allies are a great way to telegraph tough monster abilities like petrification, become undead, or death stare. A couple commoners in soldier gear that function to teach the party some of what they're up against is nice.
I am currently using a DM PC in my Radiant Citadel campaign (we combined all the chapters into one campaign), but I took some steps to avoid these problems:
I chose a role in the party the players had not filled, namely a healer, but chose Knowledge Cleric because this way, she could act as the player's knowledge broker and fill in things inuniverse that I, as a DM, would normally give the players out of universe and provide advice the players require in a more interesting way than just 'the DM tells them the game mechanics'.
This allowed me to have her act as a 'tutorial' for the party when they needed to learn mechanics or features that I as a DM would otherwise be explaining in a boring way outside of the game, as the concept of a 'Knowledge Broker' is something Knowledge Clerics are good for and she's also a teacher, so it provided me a way to provide information that the DM would normally be giving the players ingame with roleplay attached to it.
I also make sure to roll the dice where the players can see them and fully allow the character to fail and be humiliated from failing.
I also primarily use rules for playing her that are normally utilized for playing D&D solo, which helps.
Great thoughts! Usually, if I have Followers or Hirelings, I use them for plot moments I can't/shouldn't use with the players, such as a heartstring-pulling choice: to save the follower or the village. This is especially true with situations where the character in question has no agency in the danger they are in, ie kidnapping, death, etc.
I do absolutely agree with you about DMPCs. Always a bad idea. One of my IRL friends struggles with this every time he is in the DM seat.
Agree with all points. I do use a DMpc though. Have two players, my son and a family friend. We take turns being a DM and when I DM, about 60% of the time, they run him. He is a Lore Bard and has access to rogue like skills and healing. The best way I have found to sure up this particular group and allow them to practice DMing as we rotate behind the screen.
I have a party that is generally trying to keep some npc around to assist them in their adventures. They make allies wherever they go, and actively try to find local guides to deal with issues in new places. It works pretty well for them, but I always make the allies lower level than them. Also, the party gets emotionally attached to them, so they can make great ways to mess with my players. The times they have actively endangered themselves to save their npc allies have been awesome. I've actually never had a group treat npc allies that badly, as I've heard horror stories of, and I've been running for over 20 years.
I was totally against making DMNPCs until I brought my best friend gabriel to the table for my Mines of Phandelver campaign.
He askes me this "Can you bring back the character you played as when we adventurrd together as players in this one guy's campaign?"
I asked him why, of course. This was the first time I was ever asked something like this as a DM.
His answer was "We're best friends and I would love to have you physically in the world as part of our adventuring party."
My heart melted and my girlfriend too found it incredibly sweet and wanted me to give it a shot as a result.
To mitigate the bogging down combat issue I made myself some macros on roll20 for attack rolls and the character's favourite spell. So far so good I'd say and everyone at the table tells me they're having an amazing time :D From the start of session 0 I told them that lines of communication would always be opened and it's been nothing but positive.
I've only been a 1e Dungeon Master for about three years now, so there's a lot I want to master and learn more about. For the most part I've tried to keep followers weaker than the players, and test their morale/loyalty the longer they stay with the group. However there is one scenario in which I did make a DMPC, but not so that I could have my own character. One of my players wanted to make a separate character apart from the group. Specifically an assassin. No one else wanted to do this, and I couldn't find any other players at the time, so what we did was this: She made her assassin character, and I made a magic user/illusionist character. The DMPC was specifically made to keep her alive long enough to become a high enough level where she wouldn't just die off. In stats, skills, abilities and spells he was just like a player, but morale and loyalty wise he was still a follower. And because he was two classes at once he leveled up twice as slow as normal, making him less and less relevant/important as time went on.
Eventually another one of my players wanted to make a secondary as well and join her, so my plan was to speed up the process and dwindle his loyalty to the group until he left. Unfortunately that secondary player ended up dying despite my efforts, and so the DMPC continues to travel with the assassin until she becomes strong enough and independent enough to work without him. Even if she convinces him to stick around, his slow level curve will prevent modules from being easy. And if I ever need to, I can kill him off, disable him, drain him of his levels via monster or spell, etc.
I don't know if anyone else has done this, but having been a new DM at the time and not wanting the player to die right off the bat, I felt like this was a good move on my part and we've written a lot of fun interactions between the two characters over time.
Good points
I use higher level allies to help the party out sometimes but they have other pressing issues if the players try to overuse them. NPCs come and go but may turn up later too, plot points.
And yes using pregen characters are quicker than generating characters on your own.
Regardless there's nothing wrong with DMPCs, only in how you use them. For instance the party may choose to for whatever reason not assume a role within the party that you feel is critical, often times either healing or trap finding thus leaving them sorely unprepared for whatever adventure you have in store, so rather than having them blindly stumble around getting more and more frustrated with their inability to heal or detect traps, it is usually better to show rather than tell them why such roles are valuable. Course this is usually only an issue with smaller games, though not always from my own personal experience.
I actually run character sheets for all super important NPC's with fully fleshed out backrounds, gold amounts, possible magical items and full on equipment sets(generally gear they had before they gave up adventuring). It helps me keep all that information at hand and in one spot, rather the scribbled in a notebook. Often times they will accompany the group between towns if the PC group asked for a wagon ride, on specific tasks that they ask the PC's to help with or if the PC's decide they want to turn in a favor that one of them owes them. Current group of PC's has ties and favors owed to them by: A pirate ship captain, a druid protector and the guard captain of a small town.
I had a grave cleric pal around with the party in Baldur's Gate in Descent into Avernus, as he got conscripted into the Flaming Fist as well. As the group was about to leave the city was when we got another playing, and they no longer needed the grave cleric. Even though the new player also played a cleric, the party was sad to see the first one stay behind.
It's all about how you play them.
I'm planning on a campaign and I was planning on having this "secondary" BBEG. Basically the guy begins the game sealed away in a dark cave, and if released, they'll grant the party a single favor if they ever call, meanwhile they'd be trying to free the rest of their army to finish spreading corruption throughout the world, which could or could not result in some new side quests hinting at this depending on how the party reacts. They were only sealed to begin with because they couldn't be killed, although in the end game the party will gain access to a tool that litterally allows then to Thanos their ass away, turn them into a duck, turn off their God mode for a legitimate final battle or whatever they feel like doing. I planned for it to be just a possibility of giving them the equivalent of a "get out of a big mess/ a permanent character death (although I have other means)" card, but only if they complete the side quest and free the being, while not doing anything just means they'll stay there sealed away. Is it too risky of a concept? I planned for this campaign to be more or less sandbox-like and go all the way to level 20, and things like this would show them that sometimes they might meet things that can't be simply stabbed to death, especially not at lower levels. The NPC is meant to appear no more than twice after the first meeting, and only if they're freed or re-visited by the party while imprisoned.
In a game i ran my players were given their own adventure hall. They got allies of different jobs they could take with them. They leveled along side them and let the players do all the talking and puzzles
This video is so perfectly timed. I just started running a campaign and introduced an npc that I plan on having in the story for quite a while. Not to the point where I'll save her if she's in danger, but I do have a twist for the players if she makes it that far. Although, can't really say it's a huge twist once they figure out who the bbeg is. I do plan on having her tag along in a few of their adventures, as she can be an interesting plot device in a few situations, but she's always gonna be weaker than the pcs, and get none of the loot. She's also a rogue, which the party doesn't have, so there's that too.
Yeah NPC plot plants like that can certainly be helpful.
I live in a mountain town founded during the California gold rush, so my town is a gold rush town. I start my new groups with two brothers asking to travel with them on their way to the town. One watches the cart and horses while the players explore a cave and the other offers to hold his lantern on a 10 foot pole so anyone without dark vision can see. It can help set the tone that light does matter and you can’t just leave your horses and supplies anywhere
Also the brothers pop up every so often and the players get to see them develop, start a business, get married, become a town guard, run for public office, they become real important allies.
I'm using a DMPC for Curse of Strahd, Ireena Kolyanavich. She's my ally masterpiece.
I'm making her a swords bard. The reason she's being made a DMPC? She's incredibly important to the story, and she's described as having a fiery will, so I refuse to believe she'd cower and hide in every encounter.
She's got so little HP by the stat block though, and only one ability of any use. A swords bard has interesting flourishes and gets HP as she levels with the party. No feats, just ASI increases.
How do I keep her from saving the party every time? Well, a DM ought to be used to playing characters based on what they know and don't know. She's got a distinct personality and limited information that make her a perfect backup instead of a messiah.
And people love her! They are ferocious when Strahd threatens her well being, and she's as much a member of the party as any other, taking no spotlight from the players and existing to complement and better their amazing moments.
It's more about running the NPC in a way that does not overshadow the players, while improving the gameplay, than it is about a hard rule of "NO DMNPCs!" - - - At least to me.
Allies can maintain a camp area or supply dump. They guard the wagons, handle the horses, mules oxen, train the dog. I frequently hire someone to build a special wagon or two.
I like how you break down NPCs for clarification. Thanks!
You are very welcome. :-)
Thanks for this, these are some handy tips. I'm running an NPC Paladin in my party because nobody wanted to pick up any healing spells, so he essentially exists as a Lay on Hands/Bless machine in combat, and an echo chamber for RP. Oh, and he's also the BBEG but I'm reasonably sure my players haven't figured that one out yet.
How did it go?do they know yeg
the only time ive used a dmpc was for a lvl 1 party of new players. It work solely because that dmpc had no intention of being and adventurer, so after the intro quest was completed, he said his goodbye and went back to his family.
It was great to rp while teaching them some of the mechanics, like the help action, or investigation to look for X instead of speeding 4 hours explaining how each skill works
I once made a DMPC closely connected to the main plot of my campaign but made sure by having them a couple levels lower than the party to avoid overshadowing the party. All they did in combat was ride the broom of flying with the sorcerer and cast witch bolt. Sure they were a wizard with 20 INT but in any Investigation quests, they were always doing something else, like dealing with a headache from what connects them to the main plot. The DMPC was my attempt at a long term escort mission that did not feel like too much of a pain in the butt and not overshadowing the party. DMPC's can be done well, they are just easy to mess up. Also, there were some side Quests that focused more on the PC's for the players that did not have their character constantly leave the party due to Mental Breaks. The odd thing is I did not use the rules for Sanity and that was just how that player played their characters.
RAW at least in 3.5/PF1 is that Hirelings and Followers don't advance in level and as such don't get a share of the XP, if you want a more powerful Hireling you hire a more powerful Hireling, if you want a more powerful Follower, then you must improve your Leadership score and may gain a new more powerful Follower depending on the chart while retaining the old ones. Cohorts however do gain XP, but they get a share separate but equal to their Leader's but are prevented from leveling within two levels below their Leader.
In my current campaign, I am running a DMPC bear totem barbarian named Zaltana. Originally, I was controlling this character for another player who couldn't make it to the first session and was on the fence about it. Eventually, that player didn't want to join with that character, so I made the barbarian an NPC and had them bid adieu. Some time later, the party found another quest that tied into their first arc, so Zaltana returned. After fighting a giant Pac-man robot, an intelligence draining necromancer, a mimic castle, and a dragon made of magma all in the same arc, the party grew very attached to Zaltana. So she ended up turning into a DMPC.
I am very aware of the problems a DMPC, so I try to mitigate them as much as I can. Zaltana is a very simple character. Her turns normally consist of running up to someone, and hitting them twice. And being a creature of 6 Intelligence, Zaltana normally goes for the most straight forward path, requiring minimal thought to run. And although she takes up some of the player's experience, the encounters I build for them tend to yield a lot more XP than recommended (They'll go through two Deadly encounters and still have the resources for a third before taking a long rest). In terms of loot, Zaltana barely touches it. She'll say she's taking equal pay, but only take 1 gold piece out of 3000 (6 Intelligence at its finest). Also, she won't take or attune to magic items unless members of the party actively tell her to.
But most importantly, the party loves Zaltana. They see her as an active member of their group and enjoy her comical interactions. I may have her go on a journey later as our party is starting to get too big. But as long as they want her around, she'll happily swing her greataxe at whatever is in their way.
I did things differently I'm allowing players to recruit some allies and followers to take under their wing but they must earn it through actions in-game if they fail to meet whats required the npc can't be hired and once recruited, if they're used they will be on a cooldown for a few quests which depending on the quests can last multiple days after use so they can't constantly be brought out, I only allow 2 extra allies regardless how many players are available (they are also a backup if somebody can't make it on a certain day incase an emergency or something comes up) They must join the adventurers guild to be of service and will have rewards such as loot or rewards for completing the quest also split with them if they choose to take them. However the hired NPC's are under orders from the one who recruited them. While I do play them they tell their follower what to do and the followers only know what the party knows so they can't squeeze info out of me. (I also included them because I have a plan for the end to do with a huge battle and these npc's will play a part in the final battle, such as holding off areas and covering the PC's exit and allowing them to continue on.) The only DMPC I will be playing myself if they bring them is somebody with the mind of a child but brute strength, that way he can't just be used to get info and he's there for just some muscle alone, however he is suspectible to things due to low stats in other categories so he can be charmed or controlled by certain enemies for example. The people in my campaign enjoy them being there because the child like behaviour has brought a comedic effect to the table.
I like to use NPCs as tools in a few ways: they can bolster a party and allow them to take on a tougher encounter than they might otherwise. I often let the players run/roleplay the chars in such an instance - it let's them change things up, do something different. And they get attached... point 2: death can be biting even if it's a beloved npc, so you can do Walking Dead/GOT style kills to bring the horror but not kill a PC. Also, the npc's can be used to launch plotlines of their own. Lots more uses as well, u get the idea.
We are currently running a family campaign. I am the DM and am using a dmpc because I only have two other player (my wife and my son). Granted I’m a new DM but I use my pc as a supporter unit and let the “players” make the decisions in the game. As a ranger I’m already antisocial so it fits. Right now we are running an exp based game but I am seriously thinking of starting the next game we do as a milestone campaign. Our main goal is to get our son familiar with D&D so we can later move onto bigger games. So far he is liking his experience which is important to us.
I don't do the DMPC but I do tend to add a companion to fill in gaps. I always base the companion on the party needs but compatible with them. The problem with playing with a really good group of creative role players is they come up with awesome characters but all the bases just don't get covered. The last campaign had everything but a pure caster and trap skills so I whipped up a scholar with the treasure hunter background. I have always given a free 1st level feat so I spent it on skills. So now they had someone to handle the traps who sat back and chunked cantrips unless needed and kept her nose in a book. I used her as a means to give lore or area information but not advice... This works well for narration "You guys have never been to Grand Bazaar of Ak'Rilon? OMG! Hang on to your coin pouches cause if you..." Is WAY more fun for everyone than a boring description. I find it keeps the action in-game.
I never "play" with the companions and I never give them loot. I base rewards on the players so I never factor them in to get a cut Also, they die just like the players and if not needed just move on.
I used DMPCs before, when there was only one guy present (everybody else I had never wanted to play). He was a tabaxi rogue who was an overachiever. The thing was he was a rogue, yes he can hide from enemies, but what if he tried to hide from the enemies during combat. Enemies would laugh hysterical at him because they see him hide in a bush, he has disadvantage. Can't just force him to take a different class, that would be not having fun, but instead just been stressful, which beats the purpose of fun. So I made some characters, they never took the spotlight because they were just there to help out the tabaxi rogue. They were warforged, thus they had no personality, they never took any of the loot because they don't need it (they're robots), the tabaxi made all of the decisions unless he needed some extra guidance, I almost forgot to mention that they're 2 levels behind the tabaxi. What was the result? He loved it, but the only complaint he gave to me was that they were just robots and that's it, no personality or interesting backstories of them (the reason was for me to not care for them). So that's it, DMPCs can be useful, if you play your cards correctly. Not to mention some of them getting instantly killed just to show him how much I really care for them, so he's not too confident about them surviving every battle.
An idea I’ve had to running PC allies in combat while not bogging down the game is to condense the allies’ turns all into 1 or a few abilities the PCs can choose to use. For example, if the PCs have a group from the town guard helping them, as opposed to having all those guards join the initiative order and slow the game down, I would allow the players to call in a volley of crossbow shots from the guards once per combat at the same time a legendary action could be taken. The volley could consist of some attack rolls the players roll or an AOE ability which forces some enemies to roll dex saves against taking a lot of piercing damage.
This system really streamlined the allies’ turns and keeps the game going. Additionally, it makes the help they provide feel more impactful since it’s all condensed into one important ability as opposed to be spread across a bunch of turns. However, this system is very gameified. The DM and players will all need to agree to this system, otherwise, the PCs will question why the allies can’t use their turns in combat for other actions.
I use allies a lot in my campaign with my parents. Since I only have two players to work with, but I still want the encounters to still feel exciting, I'll usually just toss them an ally that changes for every mission, whose role is merely to draw some of the aggro from the monsters, help them pick off minions etc. I have to be very careful though because obviously I still want them to be in the spotlight since they're the real players, so I purposefully make the allies suboptimal in terms of stats and tone down their damage. Also I don't roleplay them basically at all and only speak in-character when the ally is addressed directly or to give the players hints when they don't know what to do or get stuck at a puzzle, like "I wonder, have you seen this type of inscription before?". It works well and they enjoy the game, but I haven't considered actually just up and making statblocks for them instead of rolling up actual characters. That's a good tip I'll definitely implement in the future!
That is a good reminder. I've also done the sin of the DMPC. Once you go on the other side of the screen, you know how bad this can be. But I like your take on the followers, and the categories.
I use something like DMPCs, but they are reoccurring villians that level up with the characters and respond to their actions in the world. They have full character sheets that evolve based on player choices and work as bosses. They make for great rp encounters, and one of them, a changling Ninja has been a huge thorn in their side which brought them (a mostly evil party) together and made them emotionally invested in killing her. Unlike regular npc baddies which I script their actions beforehand these bosses can react creatively. It functions like a nemesis system. I have 4 players, and 4 potential reoccurring bosses, 1 of which has become a major villain and another of which became an ally through diplomacy which lead to an adventure where the players saved her life however she eas too crippled to join the party and is no longer a possible reoccurring boss.
There is an interesting mechanic for NPCs with the party that I first saw in the D&D Essentials Kit (I am old to TTRPG, new to 5E) called 'sidekicks' that seems to be close to what Luke describes with the character on a 3x5 card. There are three archetypes, the Spellcaster, the Expoert, and the Warrior.
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I just searched it, and it's from Unearthed Arcana as well.
I think many of these tips can be applied to autopiloting a PC when the player has to leave early or calls out, with their permission first.
They're there for the combats, or if addressed but no more. Let the players present roll the game, you are just there to maintain balance.
Just my 2cents.
Great video; it answered a few questions I had.
Yes, totally agree.
I remember running CoS some time ago, there is set of pretty important NPCs - sibling from starting town, that want to travel to other one... So it is escort mission. Brother got good stats, but to minimize crowding in fights and make them faster - I pretty much assumed, in each fight he would jsut protect his siter, that would attempt to remove herself from center of battle, but stay close enough to party to not risk being snatched out. Basically, one NPC was there as protection for party and to make sure they dont have to babysit other one.
Concept for later was to give brother "Commanding strike", so he would just stop enemies and give PC oportunity to strike.
So I use a DMPC that was actually my character before I had to take over the role of DM in every other campaign I run, no DMPCs but as he was their cleric he was a little too important to have run off in the forest. So now he helps them out but I essentially run him as a follower.
In the last campaign where I was a player, our DM ran a sort-of DMPC that I thought worked really well, but that was the case because he established very specific limitations for the character. He was a mute skeletal paladin given to our death cleric by her god as a companion/protector. This was useful for us because, as a 3-person wizard/rogue/cleric party, we didn't really have a frontliner. Since he was mute and was specifically tasked with protecting our cleric, he behaved in predictable ways when danger struck, and he responded to most questions by simply pointing or shrugging. He traveled with us, fought with us, leveled with us, and sometimes saved the day for us, but he never felt like he was stealing our thunder or guiding our actions.
We had a lot of allies in Out of the abyss but they were so interesting, we got super attached to them
The approach I like to take is NPC allies with similar instrumental goals (get this resource, kill that monster, etc.) but very different terminal goals, so that as soon as the job is done it's in the ally's best interest to part ways
I think a good idea for a DMPC is to have them only there for like... 1-3 early levels at the very very best while being really strong only to be cut down by the villain. Only use them with the party for like... 2 lil quests so they still have their spotlight.
Establishes the power of the villain, gives them a motivation, also showcases the strength of the world's heros etc etc
100% totally and absolutely agree with your position on traitorous "allies". Use it once. Maybe once. _Maybe._
Treachery only works in RPGs if it occurs against a backdrop of trust. If betrayal is anything like a constant theme, your players will flat out refuse to trust anything or anyone. I've heard it described as "Shadowrun Syndrome".
For those who don't know, Shadowrun is a Cyberpunk/Urban Fantasy setting/system. A common plot hook is the PCs being given a job by a "Mr Johnson" (euphemistic pseudonym for a corporate contact). An equally common plot device is for Mr Johnson to try to kill the PCs (or incriminate them or some other form of betrayal) rather than paying them. Many GMs _drastically_ underestimate how many times you can get away with this plot device before one of your players will work out that it's going to be much safer and more profitable to just kill Mr Johnson and his bodyguards and fence their car, cyberware and organs for a quick profit. I mean, sure, Mr Johnson's corp is going to come after them, but _you've_ taught the players that they were going to do that anyway.
I can think of two reasons to have DMPCs; if one of your PCs is indisposed for some reason and backup PCs in a high-death campaign.
While the player is not present, that PC is a DMPC. Usually more of a contrived reason why that PC is being a coward for a bit, but it can be good for that PC to still participate in combat and decision-making.
I also played a campaign that was set in a mercenary company with a high turnover rate, so our PCs died fairly often but we always had backup characters that we'd gotten to know while the last one was alive. It was basically a revolving door of DM-created PCs, and it doesn't necessarily work for every campaign (small party is necessary because you don't want too big a party including DMPCs), but it was a fun campaign.
Otherwise, I agree with you.
I have a quest thought of where there is a dmpc quest giver, although it doesn't fit the stereotype. The idea is that she hires the players as a meat shield, stays in the background and specifically hires them for 1 magic item at the end of the cave. I made it a bit stronger than the players, but because I am planning to 'stay in the background to let the players do what they were hired for'. If however, they decide they want the loot the character will become the boss of the cave. if they decide to play cool they have made a friend with a large historic knowledge (it's a lara croft like character) that they could get some info from. When I am thinking about it now it seems closer to a glorified npc then the standard dmpc.
I was a first time DM but not a first time player, and I had only 3 players. One of them canceled like 20 mins before the session, and so I didn't want to screw the other two players over and we played anyway. The campaign was homebrew as well. I instead made a dmpc called Ivan, who was a fighter of a NG alignment, dual wielded light hammers and spoke with a heavy Russian accent. He liked pretending to be invincible and rushed in to distract the enemies from our wizard and sorcerer, who both had 5 hp at level 1. He actually got pretty far, but he died to a hobgoblin warlord at level 4 when they were trying to clear some goblin cave that had an ambush since the players traveled on fast pace and some of the goblin scouts saw them and alerted the cave. The players loved him, and they were actually pretty sad when he died.
I do agree with a lot of the points in this video, but I've found that my current group tends to enjoy the occasional npc follower, even if they dont follow all these guidelines.
A lot of the time, the characters in question are related to a certain quest and either have personal stakes (as in, a guard in a village hiring the party to help him exterminate a bunch of goblins that have been threatening the village) or are people they want to interact with more. For the second kind I've probably had the biggest guideline break in this video. One member of the group joined a kind of adventurers guild that primarily focusses on helping the civilian population but also occasionally exterminates monsters. Now, the player in question found a job on the blackboard he was interested in that was a bit above their paygrade, but he'd just made friends with a higher ranking member in the guild due to a previous quest. So through some persuasion, loot sharing and such they convinced him to come along. Now, this guy was considerably more powerful than the party, though not to an extent where he'd be able to take on all of them by himself. He ended up contributing a fair bit, but there's only so much one character can achieve and a vast majority of the work still was done by the players. I asked them at the end of it if it bothered them, but they seemed to enjoy his presence more than feel that he took away from their agency. I dont do that all the time of course, but Ive found adding a locale dependant character that can come along for certain quests and helps out in some small ways gets my group to care more about each location and form tighter bonds with some npcs.
I am in a Roll20 game where people often do not show up. The DMPC is literally named after the DM. He is a druid that can fill whatever roll is missing. Its run well. Other than being an embodiment of the DM. He does not (or has not yet) fallen victim to what you said is bad when a DM runs a PC. It works for the group.
This is very helpful. My gang has 3 players and I'm constantly throwing NPC's at them to see what sticks and what doesn't. So far we have a party of 8 entering a dungeon and I control 5 of them. Its a bit much but they refused to set foot in a dangerous place without proper back up. I hate how shrewd my players can be sometimes lol
Area effect. Give each ally the players use an effect and zone. If the players are in the zone they get the effect. Then just move them occasionally explaining how they help the players when the players use the effect the ally gives.
At our table we don't really have DMPC but we have rotating DMs and their PC goes into a more passive NPC mode when it is there turn to DM. It has been working well so far. DM'ing is a lot of work and this lets them spread the work between a few people. Might not work for a tight plot line but we are doing a more relaxed adventure broken up into missions.
I usually use player character sheets for some NPC's since statblocks don't always work for me, but sometimes I'll use statblocks as well.
The only time I've seen a DMPC done right is when one of my DM's had a paladin with us, mainly because we didn't have many players. The character never spoke unless we talked to them, and only did stuff in combat, half the time they were forgotten about as well lol. They were mostly a meat shield for enemy attacks as well
I run a DMPC cleric, but I never had issues with not stealing the spotlight since he can't bring an enemy below 1 hp, or conflicting interests. I also only had the DMPC because most of the players were new so I added that since no one wanted to be a cleric, I also use the loyalty rule where the DMPC will leave if treated badly. My DMPC cleric has almost died a few times, usually because he is either at the wrong place at the wrong time, or intelligent enemies sees he is healing the party. I also don't gift him magic items, my players do that themselves where they gave him a magic item they felt he was best suited for. If the players asks him something, I roll a die to determine if he knows anything, then another dice to determine how much he knows, and if there is no possible way he would know, then he doesn't know. He does get a share of the loot but he is nice and doesn't mind giving PCs gold every now and then if they need it. I do understand that yea it is a lot more work on me and just because of that, I may switch him into a stat block.
Well said. The Only time I have run a full PC as a DM is when a party is short-handed. And they usually have an IQ of about their shoe size.
I've used a DMPC once. That poor half-orc not only died without getting a single piece of loot, he was entirely deleted from the timeline and the only thing that remained of him was the memories of the sole surviving PC.
But that was a one-shot that evolved into a five-session campaign.
Something I do is that I use those Sidekick things from that Unearthed Arcana. I give them 3 options of hirelings they can hire, going from 1/4 their level to 1/2 their level to 3/4 their level. The higher level ones costing more than the lower. But it always rounds down so they are always higher level than the Sidekicks, and since there isn't much room to do anything with said Sidekick, they are always gonna be more powerful than the generic off-brand hirelings are.
Barb: but who's gonna find traps for us now?
me: Gary's gonna find 'em... with his face!