For women it's not beauty, it's caretaking. As a woman you are expected to take care of everyone around you, to make everybody around you feel good. In a room full of men and women if someone does not feel well, even if that distress was caused by men it's the women that are expected to do something about it. Beauty is not even always an advantage as a woman, in fact, many powerful women dress in a more masculine manner because they fear they will be taken less seriously if they remind people that they are female. Beauty gives you attention as a woman and that can be an advantage but you can get far without being pretty. It's when you don't seem to care about the people around you when you get in trouble as a woman. Look at the men in politics -if they do something incredibly stupid but are stubborn enough they can get away with not resigning. Women can't because how dare they to not perfectly take care of everyone. It's the same reason people have a way bigger issue with successful business women than with successful business men. The idea that a woman could have people work for her, being demanding and in control, possibly making people's life harder than easier goes against everything that is expected from her. She is supposed to make lifes easier not harder. Business men though are celebrated because they encompass everything that you say is expected of men in your video. They are also never asked about their children and who takes care of them while they work because in all of our biased minds it's obvious that some woman does that
I broadly agree but I think women can also get ahead by being ultra cruel. Look at politicians like (in my country) Margaret Thatcher. They are celebrated by conservatives for being unlike women. Thatcher was famously called the Iron Lady and wore it as a badge of pride. Caring for others is a good thing, we should be encouraging men to do it more, not women to do it less so they can be more like men.
What arches over all of this that I was sad he didn’t point out is that we STILL live in such a patriarchal culture that teaches women are 2nd class, less important. That’s also why fragile ego type men feel threatened by women who don't play by that unspoken rule. We threaten their assumption of superiority. And the privilege they don’t want to lose!
"men can dish it out but they can't take it" because they are taught that they shouldn't have to take it, they should just lash out at anyone they want. Whereas women are taught that we need to shut up and not anger men...our (forced, by society) lack of ego as women is a survival mechanism. And I totally agree with you that it's fear based on the part of men, but then they often take this fear out on women violently, rather than doing the kind of introspective work that you are doing in this video and examining their fear.
Thank you for speaking about this, hearing these things from you is everything to me. I always found it interesting watching my grandpa, especially in the last 10 years of his life, he was obviously retired and too old and frail to contribute to house work. Meanwhile my grandma was in a little better shape and could keep up with the traditional woman stuff, cooking, cleaning, etc while all my grandpa could do most days is just sit there and watch TV. Even if there was a small thing he could offer to help grandma do, grandma would be all like back off, this MY kitchen!! And I got the sense that grandpa was really struggling with the idea of not being useful, no longer working in or out of the house. He never lashed out about it, he never took it out on grandma, he kinda just went through his own quiet existential crisis it seems. So I dunno, in my 20s I really tried to spend some quality time with him and let him know that he is enough just for being the sweet, warm, caring man he always was. Maybe not in those specific words, but nonetheless he deserved to know that just his presence in my life and everyone else’s was all he needed to contribute to be worth something in the world
I mean feeling valuable, useful and needed is what your grandpa needed, right? So you were trying to make him realize that by being sweet and caring he actually did provide significant value to your family, it's just of different kind
@@Dap740 absolutely. This whole anecdote is me trying to put words to something unspoken and then trying to paraphrase this entire dynamic into TH-cam comment size so these things are rarely as black and white as I make it sound, but I thought I’d share it as an interesting window into traditional masculinity
Thanks for your well articulated thoughts on this topic! I agree with all you said, but in addition would add that women have not only been valued for their beauty (because face it, tragically for the harm it causes us, most women don't "measure up" to the standards of western beauty -- hence all the eating disorders and cosmetic surgeries), women have also been "valued" (but not paid for) their high levels of work in the home and as wives and mothers (also unpaid). They/we also get valued for our ability to be "people pleasers" a quality trained into us that definitely has a negative impace on our sense of self worth IF we're not pleasing others. Hence, when a man speaks up in a meeting, he's assertive and strong, but if a woman does, she's aggressive and shrew-like. One last thing, men and women suffer in different but perhaps equal ways if they are raised by parents and a society that lacks emotional intelligence. For men, it's not being allowed to cry or feel sad or have the full range of their emotional lives. For women, it's not being allowed anger, etc. That's a vast over-simplication, but emotional intelligence is useful for living a life worth living, for having friends, and for self-knowledge leading to self-kindness and authenticity. Good on ya, Nathaniel for being the emotionally intelligent, thoughtful, and joyously creative person you are. I love your videos. Thank you!
Yes, frankly rather tired of men saying oh we're not allowed to cry. As if there's no female counterpart. Well, WE're not allowed to be angry. Both are very damaging.
This already deep conversation goes even deeper. How do we put value on humans at all? Men for utility woman for beauty? Reverse the roles and it still feels wrong. Both? If I’m useful and/or beautiful regardless of gender? Do we love for how people make us feel or for who they intrinsically are?
I can answer that. We love people who make us feel lovable. It's much easier to love that person who while you are talking to them makes you feel you are on their level of IQ. Nice clever people have that knack. Nasty clever people speak witty clever put downs at you when other people are about so as to look good against you. There is a Facebook meme that goes people will remember how you made them feel. It is actually true. It's not how clever they are,or you are,it's do you feel attractive and witty and fun in their company when you know really you're not. Everyone loves those people .
It seems to me that the biological strengths & weaknesses of male/female are barely relevant anymore given the way society has developed and advanced… yet we’re still attempting to maintain the roles we once would have had in former variations of civilised living from an egoic perspective.
Interesting, I have recently had quite opposite thoughts. I think the biological differences between men and women are very relevant, and should be accounted for rather than ignored (which I think they are). Maternity leave, especially in the US, is a prime example. Only women can give birth to children and then e.g. breastfeed them. Women only have a certain time window for that too, as opposed to men. But 'careers' and educational expectations do not reflect that a lot of the time. Women are often expected to study and work until they are well into that 'window', then birth a baby, leave it with strangers when the baby is a few months old, and go back to work. If we want women to work then perhaps we should focus more on creating career and educational options that fit better around the biology of women.
Can't quite be bothered to write an essay here, but I would argue that these biological differences are very real, and should not be ignored. It then makes sense men and women would have slightly different roles in society. However, some stereotypical roles are based on culture, not biology, which is a completely different thing. Anyway, what a nice discussion. Glad this kind of content exists on TH-cam.
Maybe men could ignore the weakness of women’s bodies but women can never ignore the strength they lack..that information of the differences will always be louder in their minds ..so maybe some of those biological traits should be put aside but definitely not this one
@@cloudslady3400The typical or average male really isn't that much stronger especially when a lot of men don't really work out. I think too many people imagine the "ideal" man when they think of men. Likewise they'll imagine a frail and skinny woman when they think of women. It doesn't help when women are often discouraged from working out and getting muscular. When they do, they're bullied and called "manly" as a way to bully them into looking the way they believe a woman should look.
It's definitely going to be a long and slow process, but luckily more and more people are "waking up" on the planet, which can only create a ripple effect of change. I'm really excited for the future of more people living a more intentional life that's in alignment with their soul's deeper truth! 🙌🏻
“Only woman and children are loved unconditionally. A man must prove his worth.” Men are taught their value comes from what they provide or accomplish. Woman are taught their value comes from how they look.
This is such a warm and cozy video, Nathaniel. Feels like talking to a close friend. Here's a thought that's crossing my mind after listening to you. Perhaps, everything comes down to the internal workings and motives of an individual. If providing comes from a place of love and deeper fulfillment, then it will build a man, rather than deplete him. If it comes from a place of fear of rejection or low self worth, it will cause more angst or anxiety.
We're in dire need of addressing the insecurities/fragility of young men in all of our cultures, worldwide--too many young men are being pulled into such as incel and other radicalisms which see violence as okay. Personally I had an ugly and stupid childhood (in the U.S.) and this made me terribly insecure for decades--but it was also society and the expectations for men which continued to feed into my insecurities. As you say, acceptance and letting go are huge, but we certainly need a more systemic approach for the long term. It is good to see you looking into this, and I look forward to your further musings on this topic.
I don't agree at all - I think it depends on how you are raised - I know many women who feel their worth is dependent on what they contribute (very few that believe worth is based on beauty - but we must have that too) & I am your parent's age & have always felt worth is based on contribution
I agree, and I’m closer to Nathaniel’s age. The presumed stereotypes described in this video are barely recognizable to me amongst men and women I know in real life.
The fragility of the male ego isn’t being helped by red pill folks telling you that men are being under attack. I’ve been researching old alcohol industry media and I have started to believe that men’s egos have been leveraged for purchasing power since st the very least the beginning of commercial media production. It’s so refreshing to see you continue to talking about this important topic.
If rigidity is what causes fragility, why wouldn't you choose the term "male rigidity"? That's the root cause of the problem, right? I guess "male rigidity" just doesn't pander to the misandric tendencies of the typical audience expected to consume these types of ideas. It's too macho for their taste lol
@@nikeisagreekgoddess4135 if I had to guess it’s just the general sense of our lives being more expendable because of our mating habits. Women can pro-create once a year while men can daily. Biologically we’re just worth less. 😂
Alchool was always the way men used to drowed their sorrows, alchool consumption is increasing again in my country, most of our grandparents and even parent were/are drunks
Yesterday I was reading a book with the plot happening in Italy and it reminded me of you and I was like "damn, I miss one of those filosofal Nathaniel's videos. I must watch one tomorrow!". Well, destiny is here
@@Talkinbooks mr norrell and Jonathan strange! Its historical fantasy during war with napoleon. Most of it happens in england ignoring the war but there are some bits in portugal, spain and other european countries because of the war and now after the war ended, one of the characters is spending a lot of time in venice!
Perhaps that's why the idea of "parts of ourselves" in therapy works well. It's trying to disrupt that rigid idea we have of who we are. Different parts of ourselves respond to the world in different ways and those that feel threatened or fearful are parts we need to reconcile. Thanks Nathaniel ❤
This is an important message. I’m so happy you are addressing it. You have a valuable voice in this world. I’m retired. I will be 62 this year. I have been grappling with these thoughts. I know who I am and whose I am, nonetheless, it’s a constant battle to hear the still small voice over all the noise of the world.
I admire how you observe the world and speak up. Men and women are dynamic and needed. It’s a beautiful balance that is slowly being deconstructed and destroyed. The concept of gender and everything else in between is so chaotic these days. Thank you for the niche topic. It’s to the point and wonderfully illustrated in the way you speak. I had a hard time understanding my femininity when growing in the world I have been taught from a young age to hustle, hustle harder because I’m Latina, hustle harder because I’m first generation, make yourself useful, beauty is pain and you have to sacrifice your ego. Don’t speak up because nobody cares what a woman has to say, just obey. Now more than ever it’s hard to just be my creative self without the invisible parameters of providing something útil.
Nathaniel, once again I appreciate you! I find your ideas and curiosity on any given subject interesting and thought provoking. Always look forward to what you have to share.
Chose a polarizing topic here 😆 Men need to be needed. It's not just an idea of the ego. It's a need like food and water and connection. It's not wrong. It's not bad. It's actually wonderful. And yes, when we women do everything that they were once doing, it'll feel like a threat. Well said, Nate. So then you offer the solution of detaching from value=utility. Sure, it is important to always remember that you're more than just the self etc. But my personal solution for this is to make space in my life where men can be of use to me. And there's a lot that I need from them that I am very happy about receiving on a consistent basis. This translates into a healthy confidence, mine and the mens needs being met so beautifully and a happy coexisting together. Trust me, most women would actually prefer someone coming and doing xyz for them because they're overwhelmed. The economical situation actually has many women feel in a forced position relative to making money, than it being their true desire. The old ways were partly functional, but flawed in the shadows that came with control, strong expectations of what each party should be instead of their authentic selves and therefore a lack of freedom for relationship constellations that were different, failing to respect the different needs and wants of each partner. But many real needs and wants were actually met better in my opinion.
It seems to me that what you're talking about should be addressed only as "fragile ego"; it's not exclusive to insecure men but to insecure humans. I met/know of high-ranking women in the corporate world who suffer from this - both the feminine ones and the masculine ones. Also, on that line, what would we call this evergrowing need from women to sexualize themselves on SoMe (more extremely on OF) in the name of "sexual freedom" if not "fragile female ego" behavior? Most likely, a woman who doesn't expose her breasts online knows her worth is not just her physical appearance. Just food for thought. P.S.: Not necessarily defending men; I look at most men and women with an online presence within a negative light anyway.
It's nice finding other men like this. Some days I feel like I'm on an island alone. Other men will usually point fingers at women and say "we're this way because women do XYZ" and that is exhausting so this is refreshing.
Both men and women have fragile egos. Its just women do not express it and even when they do it is acceptable socially. The perception about value of men does not exist in a vacuum where basically all men telling each other and checking each other about their utility. Women participate in this behavior too but very subtly , almost unspoken ways. The problem with any feminist rhetoric about men is that the image of men have also been flattened to be one dimensional. The current crisis comes NOT from men are being threatened by women joining the workforce , thats a misreading in my opinion. There is a steady decline of jobs among working class men , as noticed by many experts including people like Noam Chomsky. Free market economy has made thousands of men jobless. On the other hand the perception of 'free independent working' women is ONLY limited to an upper class privileged section of women who gets the white collar jobs. The aspirational free woman is not a mason , not a plumber , not a electrician ..but a teacher , a doctor , an investment banker. This has more to do with class. So now we are seeing working class males dissatisfied with society and media that glorifies upper class women , so their anger is more about being left out from that. These upper class women are often also quite patriarchal in mindset when it comes to their dating and daily life.
I don't want women working. women are often also quite patriarchal in mindset when it comes to their dating and daily life seems like a good thing to me.
I really appreciate this video. He attacks mens fragile ego but there’s actually something so accepting about this mindset towards us men. I wish this was how most of society thought
Any thoughts on the egos of sons of single parent (mums) what is going on! Any chance of a video on what goes on in teenage boys' heads? My nearly 18 year old old son is acting like I'm a competitor in a game not his mother. He has shut down all communication. He used to be talkative and curious. Now he's really intimidating. I asked him to move in with my brother and he screamed at me, I was scared, so I got my brother to 'facilitate' that move. My parents are telling me to tell him I love him but he seems to hate me so much, it wouldn't feel authentic right now. He has so little respect for me that I feel that that would make things worse in the long run. He seems competitive with me which is strange, imo. Like he's at the start of his life. I might not be a millionaire but I'm at peace with it. I'm secure. This is my journey. He is on the brink of his own journey with exams coming up but focused on how ''shit'' my life is! He told me I have a shit job. I said well at least I have a job (my job is not that shit!). He told me I'll have a shit pension. Again, at least I have a pension. He said my house is shit. I said well, I'm grateful for it. Just a lot of abuse and criticism that I'm allegedly so mediocre and such an under achiever. I've done OK in challenging circumstances. He's always been supported until I could take no more. I wonder what the hell is going on in his head. What is all the hate and why is it directed at his mother?! Honestly baffled.
Such a useful food for thought! I literally kept notes. Thank you Nathaniel for all of your work and for sharing your ideas with us, you are truly inspiring and one of my top favorites creators in general ❤️❤️
Today's economies make money off of the human ego and insecurities. If we know our own power and worth outside of external factors, then economies will need to be overhauled and re-imagined. That's where the fear comes in.
We (because we dont know you) can only value you for the stuff you make and how you present yourself but within your creations are all the experiences and connections you've made. So tangentially we're valuing you for your generosity, your curiosity, your kindness, your humor and courage. Not to mention Pride Aaaand humility. Not NOT appreciating your artistry and general aesthetics though.
Eckhart Tolle: How to Free Yourself from Your Ego Armor 1.Observe Your Mind. ... 2. Distinguish Between the Voice of Ego and the Actual Situation. ... 3.Let Go of Limiting Stories. ... 4.Bring In Your Awareness. ... 5.Lay Down Your Weapons.
4:25 the only thing I guess I would say to this is you are welcome to go about not being very useful as a man, however the likelihood that you will trigger the part of the female brain that is truned on is very close to zero. So unfortunatley you may find peace that way as a man, but it is possible that you won't find love.
Why do you have so difficulty of being together with a woman… ? I have lived in all kinds of relationships with woman… It’s the most natural way of relate… or when you are gay. But I definitely appreciate your honesty as always. You are a very young man and so attractive, you will get any woman that you desire ❤ Stop over think it… please If you don’t try you end up lonely and bitter, so many I know end up like that unfortunately 😢
I agree with a lot of what is being said. However, it's not having a "fragile male ego" for a man to strive to be a provider or a protector. This is why we are here it is what men are called to do. To be in service of something greater, whether that be God, country, or family. This is the way men are hardwired, and many men feel most happy when fulfilling these roles.
That is exactly the socialisation Nathaniel is talking about and not "wired by nature". It is such a cliché that "men are called to be in service of something greater", the old hero-story that is now making the male ego fragile because they were taught to not have feelings (apart of aggressive ones) and expected to be strong and tough, while women were supposed to be caring and nice and thankful to those heroes. I don't need a hero, I don't need a provider and I don't need to be saved - I am my own hero, provider and savior. Why is the self confidence of a man broken if a woman dos not NEED him, but just loves/appreciate him for his personality and character?
@@bekindfox You may not need a hero and that’s great. However, Men being called to something greater is not a cliché. It’s the way we’re hardwired. We feel this calling in our soul and it’s universal. There’s something spiritual about it. It’s been like that since before my ancestors were in the Roman army and it will likely always be that way.
@bekindfox He wasn’t necessarily talking about protecting you or women in general. Everything doesn’t turn around what place men think women should take. And by the way there is a lot of people to protect in this world and it has nothing to do with their gender. Think a little out of your box, it might help
A woman's utility is often found in her ability to bear children. They are often looked at as breeding animals. Same with being a housewife/cook/maid and so on and so forth. When I was dating, a potential mother-in-law looked at me as if I was some sort of heifer. I quickly exited the scene.
So that's the reason people are SO SCARED of automation! I always thought the fear was because down the line we would forget skills and become completely hapless if something broke, and/or starving to death because no jobs (I guess the people who think the latter are against social programs/government). But this makes so much sense, It's much more immediate! People place so much value on being useful! Wow, thanks for the realization! I would never have come to this conclusion myself. I wonder why I never understood that.
From what I’ve also understood one of the main reasons people are so against immigration is because they think that means they are going to be replaced. Our whole economy and mindset about work is still very industrial and in that world we are seen as merely small interchangeable parts of a greater machine. So too our gender roles used to fit snuggly within the industrial worldview but now with things changing to fast we need a new story to tell ourselves. A new identity to guide us as our old worldviews and habits are slowly being torn apart by greater automation. We are going through a paradigm shift and seriously need to realign our identities. Exciting but also very difficult and challenging times I say
@@Vilhelmnilsson You're right! Where I live people claim they don't like immigrants because they think their "race" and/or culture is going extinct or something, but I can see how the "going to get replaced" fear is the underlying factor. This honestly explains so much about humans. You're right, it is exciting. If it wasn't for all the fear which could lead to war, then I'd be a lot more optimistic.
I naively thought that we -plebeians- were exploited, sorry, adapted to society only because of our ability to feed the system : produce more goods and ensure its sustainability until our expiry date. For one part by working, and for the other by working while renewing the pool of money makers. But today I must say I am in awe , I’ve just caught a glimpse of how most of our cellmates viewed their feminine counterparts : empty shells, but pretty ones… Well, I don’t really know which perspective I fancy the most
We should value other's "properties" regardeless if they are males or females. We'll meet a considerably small number of people in our life compared to the total population, so we should not reason with averages, we might interact with only outliers and act accordingly. For example, since I was a kid I've always valued my utility, even though my parents raised me as a girl, I've always acted differently. You don't know how hard it is to put pressure on yourself to achieve something tangible and then having no one to value you for it, because "you're a girl, if you fail or not it doesn't matter, there are other things that should be valued in a girl". If a man values its usefulness that should be appreciated, if he values something else it should be appreciated too, people just want to be recognized for who they are. Hope my english is not too scrambled.
I think men and women need to come together to discuss these issues from a place of curiosity. We both have been socialised in toxic ways and there is much to learn from each other about our experiences. Neither have it worse but struggle in our own ways.
Have you heard of the pendullum effect? It's the idea that in time, values, beliefs, practices, and even expectations swing from one extremity to another, going slightly less farther with each swing. and eventually it comes to a halt in the middle. It's even observed with things like homophobia (previous generations were majorly homophobic, now it's become sort of a brand to be queer *sad but true don't attack me* and now more and more people are starting to have a balance of thoughts regarding queer topics where it's a normal thing).
Queer is just fucking weird word for me. Queer is a term used to describe a variety of sexual and gender identities that are not cisgender or heterosexual. It can also refer to people who reject traditional labels for their sexual orientation, gender identity, or romantic orientation. The term has a complex history: Origin: The word "queer" originally meant "strange" or "peculiar". Late 19th century: It was used in a derogatory way against LGBT people. Late 1980s: Queer activists reclaimed the word as a neutral or positive self-description. Today: It's used by many people to identify with pride, but some LGBT people still view it as a slur. Queer can also be used to describe the rejection of the perceived norms of the LGBT community, such as racism, ableism, or sizeism. Some examples of queer identities include: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender. Some examples of queer expressions include: Queer arts, Queer cultural groups, Queer political groups, Queer theory, and Queer studies. It's best to ask people what labels they prefer before using the term "queer".
I have a question “To what extent our human nature and how we have evolve as men and women determine our social problems like this one?” The fact that men have the need of validate their power on nature influences. If someone can help this would be great
Being useful and productive should be everyone's goal in life. But it shouldn't habour our sense of worth. We are worthy because we exist. Young men (and women too) are comparing themselves to others too much on social media. Endless comparison each and every day.....each and every scroll is damaging the egos and mental health of our young people.
Thanks for speaking on this! My hope is that this encourages others to think g about how this plays out in their own lives. I’m nonbinary and have spent (am still spending) a lot of time undoing the harm that comes from being socialized into this hegemonic version of masculinity. Im sure you know this, but didn’t say it in the video- there’s more to it than just society valuing men’s utility. Men and boys are also punished if they try to make their source of value come from beauty, or any source that is seen as unmanly. Many people shy away from the term feminism, but this is a major part of it. For a good overview and one of the best books I’ve ever read, please check out The Will to Change by bell hooks. She has some ideas that will change your life and give you a lot of hope in this regard
I am currently watching the "Lupin" Netflix series. Every time I watch, the main character's friend Benjamin reminds me of you so much 😅. And also because of french!! You ARE French now 😋. To me
... in the way of my peoples to spill the tea. ...God has all the answers... Sometimes, I just like to cut to the chase. Humbly, fearfully, with appreciation for his wonderful mystery. Peace be with you
J'adore entendre un homme parler de ces sujets, merci de prendre cette place! J'habite à Montréal, et je suis psychothérapeute. Je rencontre beaucoup d'hommes qui cherchent leur place dans un monde en changement. Je me considère féministe, ce qui n'empêche pas du tout d'être sensible aux difficultés que traversent les hommes en lien avec leur socialisation. Parmi les thèmes qui reviennent, je retrouve les difficultés reliées à la colère et l'agressivité. Toutes les émotions semblent passer pour certains hommes par la colère. Je considère que la société les a laissé tomber à cet égard. J'aimerais beaucoup avoir ton avis en tant qu'homme à ce sujet. Merci d'exister!
Nathanial, this 7-minute video of Terence McKenna [1946-2000] may interest you, "The Male Ego Has Led Us Astray". He addresses the issue in an historical context. This is probably from the 1970s. McKenna was a polymath, including being a futurist, and was remarkably prescient about issues of today. th-cam.com/video/1gLDjn1FFDg/w-d-xo.htmlsi=NBOVKYqyUCxJ4_XE
Unfortunately all the "it's just socialization" talk in the world which we've already heard for a decade is always going to ring hollow as long as it runs into the barrier of so many men's continued lived experience of being judged by women for their ability to provide and act "masculine". Ego is fear based, and you won't get anywhere just dismissing why that fear persists. You might disagree with it, but the volume of experience out there has to mean something. If people are afraid, of course ego rises to protect them if nobody else will show them care. I'm disappointed to see this kind of one sided video from you because I believe it just reinforces the problem. This kind of message has been everywhere for so long and yet I feel like even more than 10 years ago guys today feel like they need to lean traditionally masculine. Something clearly isn't working with this messaging.
I would say a part of it wasn't just that men have "fragile egos" when it came to the barbie movie. It was the fact it felt like for many a 2 hour lecture on how awful men are. It also tries to act like being a man just gets you things within the movie itself when Ken goes into the real world for a job when the reality is that's only something that exists for a very small amount of guys out there. Most men don't just get handed things because they are men, Most men hardly get noticed and the ones that do typically get viewed as a threat or a preditor without anything to go off outside of how they look. Some men definitely have fragile egos and can't deal with women being above them in a job or doing better in life but I do think a lot of women problems get massively aplifyed while men's issues just get pushed to one side. A saying I head was something along the lines of "when women have an issue people say 'society' needs to change, when men have issues they get told to deal with it". That's not just by men that's also by women. The issue is online is typically it's not a nuanced discussion it's always someone whos blinded to what others on the opposing sides of the discussion go through.
Sadly, for those of us who yearn for a world of peace and harmony, my personal opinion is that most of the human « ego » problems all stem from the unyielding biology with which we are born, and which is a force we will always be in dance with. Survival, sex and procreation are probably the most profound motivators of life on this planet, and pretty much based on a biological needs and urges. The acquirement of nutrients, shelter, and sex,basically hinges on the attractiveness of the target, and then the acquirement of the target..,and that basically hinges on the power to acquire it by force or manipulation. Being beautiful, for a woman, equals protection and survival, because men are usually physically stronger. Being strong, for a man, also equals survival and ensures his attractiveness to a woman. As we become more civilized, and capable of surviving in smaller groups, and even alone; we strain against our biology, and struggle to grow our intellect, our spirituality, and our awareness of pleasures, beyond sex and comfort. Nonetheless, biology is a nuclear force…ergo “ego” (our sense of value), is wounded when we perceive ourselves (or feel that others perceive us), as unattractive, either aesthetically or powerfully. (Okay…about as well as I can phrase it on a TH-cam commentary, lol).
I apologize in advance but the guy wrote the song that Bonnie Tyler has recorded so excellently "Holding Out For A Hero" got it right. It's also why there never will be World Peace.
Good point, @bekindfox, and, I have no idea! But, besides the fact that every species has its own biology, I still think it is boiling down to the fact that it is important to the survival of a species to dedicate energy towards manipulating itself, or its environment, in a way that enables it to either attract mates through beauty, or the ability to provide shelter; or to whatever is necessary to ensure procreation and survival of enough offspring. My guess, is that most of this occurs due to biology…hormones, chemistry, etc.; and is manifested instinctually, rather than by conscious thought….although, in humans, I believe conscious thought is definitely used, but, nonetheless, fueled by biological machinations. (Can you tell I’m not a scientist, LOL!)
So you have issues with self worth Nathan? Get over it. Start by disconnecting from your parents. That will allow you to grow up and become a real person. Thats my free advice. I recommend that you take it. Free but valuable advice.
I feel like your stand point is kind of outdated. I dont believe men are threatened by women (or the new position of women) but because most men never thought about reconsidering their place in society. I have always worked and most of my life earned more than my partners. And there has been many Time when we were at turns unemployed. I just cannot imagine if my partners at the time would have been « delicate « about their identity. Men need to work on themselves more than ever,or they just will be left behind. They have to set the bar much higher and stop complaining. They have to take responsibility for their future and the future of their sons
Brother I have put so many hours listening to people that approach the issue of identity...it has been a real conscious effort to seek alternative perspectives and that issue becomes very spicy when you conflate it with gender roles. The idea that rigidity creates fragility is very useful, mostly in the aspect of emotional regulation. As far as individuation strategies go, when you seek self-awareness and attempt to clean house from beliefs that don't work, this one you are proposing is the one that works the least. It is pure self-deprecation. The fact of the matter is that we are objects for each other. We perform functions of utility to those around us, men and women. Usefulness is a universal issue that will dictate your status, which is what all these personal crisis can be boiled down to. Women's usefulness to men is dictated by what men want from women and viceversa. If you are a man, you are expected to perform masculinity in order to be eligible to enter the medium through which value is exchanged (relationship), usually with a woman capable of performing femininity. We can agree that identifying yourself with that performative aspect is never a viable long-term strategy. You will suffer unnecessarily if you beat yourself down for being married with children and unemployed for an extended period of time. It's already hard to to see the lives of your loved ones become harder as a direct consequence of your financial situation, so why make it worse letting that emasculate you? The first reason for that extra suffering, that seems unnecessary, is that your inability to bring to the table the things you are expected to, automatically lets you know you are providing less of an incentive for your partner to keep exchanging value with you. That doesn't mean they will leave, it means their attitude towards you may change. Obviously, good relationships have patience and compassion, which will outlast most hardships, but not forever. You are expected to bring your part to the table, it still is a transaction. So the suffering is caused by ones inability to bring the desired value to the table. I find your approach on male individuation to be ignorant of these things I mention. It therefore becomes extremely ineffective in its goal to help men as it shows how poorly you understand not just the male experience, but the transactional aspect of relationships (not just the intimate types btw). I wish we could all learn to place our inherent value in the fact that we are living beings that exist, mostly when assessing the value of others. That, however could not be further from possible and only a fool would quality themselves as someone who does that. As a side note, if you really want to make a decent attempt at persuading men, try to avoid those performative "women are so great" talking points. Maybe you're just pandering to the female audience, but it cheapens the message as most comparisons do. I have found a very gracious, honest and persuasive message in the content Dr. Orion Taraban creates. Maybe you'd like it.
Only men have weak egos? You really think that? Almost everyone I know has some form of ‘weak ego’. Male or female. You know how you not have a weak/fragile/delicate ego? By not giving a shit about what anybody says about you. My own parents said I wouldn’t be able to accomplish anything I have done in my life. National level athlete, trained classical soloist to performance level along with three degrees. Two which are graduate level. How I did I do this? Unrelenting work and knowing I could do it. Sure, it doesn’t hurt to be 6’2”, incredibly good looking and literally have a genius iq. But that doesn’t guarantee anything without doing it.
Also around the premise of Socialisation, I do think a lot of people don't realise that it's only half the issue. A lot of people think this feeling of inadequacy that men might feel when they don't feel useful is just sociatol when a lot of it is ingrained into how we are and how our brains developed. Mens and Womens Boddies aren't designed to do the same things. Mens and Womens brains don't function the exact way. A lot of the issues that get brought up is normally a negativity towards the mens way of being vs the womens. Hense why in a lot of manosphere stuff they'll say "they want to change men into women". I don't believe that's an objective of people but I do think we are taught that mens emotions are bad such as anger, When we are kids we get told it's awful and to just stop. When women are upset when they are kids they get told to let it out.
The actual differences between men and women are SO marginal. We need to drop the false premise of material difference and support everyone to be fully multidimensional HUMANS.
Actually that's early 1970s thinking,girls are just boys with bumps. Now,we know a lot more about innate differences in male and female bodies. A man's body has got greater muscle strength than a woman who is physically the same size. The body mass is different. It's why "trans" competing in women's sport is so controversial. Now that women are playing football at professional level it's being revealed that the woman's body is vulnerable to certain injuries that men dont get. And the sport equipment needs redesigning to be more suitable for women to handle. Also now the stress and toll on the female body of menstruation is being recognized,it also fucks up your psyche,and for many women going through the menopause,the end of menstruation that brings bodily changes is traumatic too. No,not physically the same at all. The differences are far from just cultural or learned.
yes and no, first depends on you were raised,second nowadays some rebel agaisnt the norms just to be contrarian, men usually are think more utilitarian and women more sentimental but like everything is not black and white, men show feelings but not in the same way a women would show them, men relantionships are more superficial and ´task´based, women like more to hung out or call eachother with no reason.
Really interesting! However, I would add, that women don’t only battle with the expectation of being beautiful, but also with the sensitive and emotional „work“ of a relationship that men sometimes seem to „outsource“ on us.
Love that you're asking this, man oh man is this question extensive. I mean Melinda Gates book said that women do an extra seven years of unpaid domestic labor as apposed to men, so its not always about 'use' but more what Patriarchy tells men to value and prioritise and whom. How do men come to believe their time is of more value? identity, scarcity mentality, sexism???... I do think Bell Hooks is definitely the place to begin (after Barbie obvi) Have you checked out Prison Feminism? Amanda Seales has a fab episode on her podcast with Richie its called Side affects of Prison Feminism. I also think you'd love an amazing feminist Australian author Clementine Ford. Her books Include Boys will be boys, Fight like a girl, How I love and her last is on the History of marriage and it is so so good its called 'I Don't'. Another great Australian feminist is Sommer Tothill and you can find her on Insta and youtube too.
Are you serious? When you talk about fragile egos, immediately what comes to mind are women. Every single women I have come to know couldn't take any criticism or any responsibility when things go wrong. To your point about competition: I have never felt personally threatened by a woman's "competency". But that I admit maybe is something that has more to do with me and my personality. I'm exceptionally good at what I do. But furthermore I would argue that in general women are not very good at doing most things on the level of men. In almost every field I look at, at the top, I observe a vast majority of males, it's unlike to see a women do anything highly creative on deeply intellectual on the very top, highest level. That is why when the rare occasion of that occurs these women become very attractive to intellectual men of their fields who would like a partner on their level, which as I explained: is a very rare thing to find.
Societal changes have now pitched men and women in direct competition with each other. How do you think that can possibly play out? Women are generally attracted to men with access to resources and those that are 'masculine' in their nature. This is basic female nature, wanting a secure future. Men are attracted to healthy and attractive women as they wish their offspring to be healthy and successful. As for women making progress... Are they? How many women in their 20's 30's and 40's are unmarried and childless? What are the predictions for their futures? This is a complicated subject. A 5 minute video just won't cut it. :-)
Male feminists A male feminist is a feminist who identifies as male. He believes that women need more sexual choice and that men are more sexually privileged than women. Even though the vast majority of men have 0 reproductive choice, with almost no dating pool, and no choice about reproduction even once in a relationship. And even though women have near infinite reproductive choice as far as partners and birth options. It is hypothesized that many of them do so in order to obtain pussy, and in failing to do so, resort to rape as their rational and moral capabilities were low in the first place.[1]
@@soundscape26 A white knight is a "nice guy" obsessed with the idea of coming to a woman's aid. He is typically overprotective of women, takes any minor complaints towards them very personally, and subconsciously believes women can do no wrong. White knights are often sneaky and manipulative towards females. They may defend females from verbal or physical insults. Not rarely, they will throw other men under the bus only to increase their chance with a woman, or only to appear socially favorable. White knights are very convinced of their moral superiority, typically motivated by feminism and, unwittingly, by their sexual frustration. Both women and men hate white knights. Women hate them because their niceness pressures them into reciprocity, but nice men do not fulfill women's mating preference for the most dominant men available. An exclusively nice man cannot be dominant. Men hate white knights because they inflate women's egos and standards.
For women it's not beauty, it's caretaking. As a woman you are expected to take care of everyone around you, to make everybody around you feel good. In a room full of men and women if someone does not feel well, even if that distress was caused by men it's the women that are expected to do something about it. Beauty is not even always an advantage as a woman, in fact, many powerful women dress in a more masculine manner because they fear they will be taken less seriously if they remind people that they are female. Beauty gives you attention as a woman and that can be an advantage but you can get far without being pretty. It's when you don't seem to care about the people around you when you get in trouble as a woman. Look at the men in politics -if they do something incredibly stupid but are stubborn enough they can get away with not resigning. Women can't because how dare they to not perfectly take care of everyone. It's the same reason people have a way bigger issue with successful business women than with successful business men. The idea that a woman could have people work for her, being demanding and in control, possibly making people's life harder than easier goes against everything that is expected from her. She is supposed to make lifes easier not harder. Business men though are celebrated because they encompass everything that you say is expected of men in your video. They are also never asked about their children and who takes care of them while they work because in all of our biased minds it's obvious that some woman does that
Totally agree!
I second this. for men, it is just utility but for women, it is beauty and utility. coughs in a mental load of running the house plus a full-time job
It is also very much beauty.
I broadly agree but I think women can also get ahead by being ultra cruel. Look at politicians like (in my country) Margaret Thatcher. They are celebrated by conservatives for being unlike women. Thatcher was famously called the Iron Lady and wore it as a badge of pride. Caring for others is a good thing, we should be encouraging men to do it more, not women to do it less so they can be more like men.
What arches over all of this that I was sad he didn’t point out is that we STILL live in such a patriarchal culture that teaches women are 2nd class, less important. That’s also why fragile ego type men feel threatened by women who don't play by that unspoken rule. We threaten their assumption of superiority. And the privilege they don’t want to lose!
' Fragility comes from rigidity ' Ouuuuf ! I felt that! Thank you for sharing your perspective Nathaniel!
Sure …strength is flexibility🤍
"men can dish it out but they can't take it" because they are taught that they shouldn't have to take it, they should just lash out at anyone they want. Whereas women are taught that we need to shut up and not anger men...our (forced, by society) lack of ego as women is a survival mechanism. And I totally agree with you that it's fear based on the part of men, but then they often take this fear out on women violently, rather than doing the kind of introspective work that you are doing in this video and examining their fear.
@rhosymedra well said!
Implying that only men have to work on themselves is crazy 😂
Edog, sweetheart, no one said or implied that. Read again. Or not. But we are moving forward here. You're welcome to be left behind.
Thank you for speaking about this, hearing these things from you is everything to me. I always found it interesting watching my grandpa, especially in the last 10 years of his life, he was obviously retired and too old and frail to contribute to house work. Meanwhile my grandma was in a little better shape and could keep up with the traditional woman stuff, cooking, cleaning, etc while all my grandpa could do most days is just sit there and watch TV. Even if there was a small thing he could offer to help grandma do, grandma would be all like back off, this MY kitchen!! And I got the sense that grandpa was really struggling with the idea of not being useful, no longer working in or out of the house. He never lashed out about it, he never took it out on grandma, he kinda just went through his own quiet existential crisis it seems. So I dunno, in my 20s I really tried to spend some quality time with him and let him know that he is enough just for being the sweet, warm, caring man he always was. Maybe not in those specific words, but nonetheless he deserved to know that just his presence in my life and everyone else’s was all he needed to contribute to be worth something in the world
I mean feeling valuable, useful and needed is what your grandpa needed, right? So you were trying to make him realize that by being sweet and caring he actually did provide significant value to your family, it's just of different kind
@@Dap740 absolutely. This whole anecdote is me trying to put words to something unspoken and then trying to paraphrase this entire dynamic into TH-cam comment size so these things are rarely as black and white as I make it sound, but I thought I’d share it as an interesting window into traditional masculinity
These Nathaniel commentaries are so well done. I'm digging them a lot. 🙌
Thank you 🙏🏼
Thanks for your well articulated thoughts on this topic! I agree with all you said, but in addition would add that women have not only been valued for their beauty (because face it, tragically for the harm it causes us, most women don't "measure up" to the standards of western beauty -- hence all the eating disorders and cosmetic surgeries), women have also been "valued" (but not paid for) their high levels of work in the home and as wives and mothers (also unpaid). They/we also get valued for our ability to be "people pleasers" a quality trained into us that definitely has a negative impace on our sense of self worth IF we're not pleasing others. Hence, when a man speaks up in a meeting, he's assertive and strong, but if a woman does, she's aggressive and shrew-like. One last thing, men and women suffer in different but perhaps equal ways if they are raised by parents and a society that lacks emotional intelligence. For men, it's not being allowed to cry or feel sad or have the full range of their emotional lives. For women, it's not being allowed anger, etc. That's a vast over-simplication, but emotional intelligence is useful for living a life worth living, for having friends, and for self-knowledge leading to self-kindness and authenticity. Good on ya, Nathaniel for being the emotionally intelligent, thoughtful, and joyously creative person you are. I love your videos. Thank you!
Yes, frankly rather tired of men saying oh we're not allowed to cry. As if there's no female counterpart. Well, WE're not allowed to be angry. Both are very damaging.
This already deep conversation goes even deeper. How do we put value on humans at all? Men for utility woman for beauty? Reverse the roles and it still feels wrong. Both? If I’m useful and/or beautiful regardless of gender? Do we love for how people make us feel or for who they intrinsically are?
I can answer that. We love people who make us feel lovable. It's much easier to love that person who while you are talking to them makes you feel you are on their level of IQ. Nice clever people have that knack. Nasty clever people speak witty clever put downs at you when other people are about so as to look good against you.
There is a Facebook meme that goes people will remember how you made them feel. It is actually true. It's not how clever they are,or you are,it's do you feel attractive and witty and fun in their company when you know really you're not. Everyone loves those people .
My value lies in God. Men are so Godless AND Fatherless these days of cheese they don’t see their value
Integrity, honesty, countless virtues. The funny part is, Christianity has all of these answers
It seems to me that the biological strengths & weaknesses of male/female are barely relevant anymore given the way society has developed and advanced… yet we’re still attempting to maintain the roles we once would have had in former variations of civilised living from an egoic perspective.
On another note - it’s insane how men still try to use their “biological nature” as an excuse for bad behavior
Interesting, I have recently had quite opposite thoughts. I think the biological differences between men and women are very relevant, and should be accounted for rather than ignored (which I think they are). Maternity leave, especially in the US, is a prime example. Only women can give birth to children and then e.g. breastfeed them. Women only have a certain time window for that too, as opposed to men. But 'careers' and educational expectations do not reflect that a lot of the time. Women are often expected to study and work until they are well into that 'window', then birth a baby, leave it with strangers when the baby is a few months old, and go back to work. If we want women to work then perhaps we should focus more on creating career and educational options that fit better around the biology of women.
Can't quite be bothered to write an essay here, but I would argue that these biological differences are very real, and should not be ignored. It then makes sense men and women would have slightly different roles in society. However, some stereotypical roles are based on culture, not biology, which is a completely different thing.
Anyway, what a nice discussion. Glad this kind of content exists on TH-cam.
Maybe men could ignore the weakness of women’s bodies but women can never ignore the strength they lack..that information of the differences will always be louder in their minds ..so maybe some of those biological traits should be put aside but definitely not this one
@@cloudslady3400The typical or average male really isn't that much stronger especially when a lot of men don't really work out. I think too many people imagine the "ideal" man when they think of men. Likewise they'll imagine a frail and skinny woman when they think of women. It doesn't help when women are often discouraged from working out and getting muscular. When they do, they're bullied and called "manly" as a way to bully them into looking the way they believe a woman should look.
more videos like this please Nathaniel :) I love this
It's definitely going to be a long and slow process, but luckily more and more people are "waking up" on the planet, which can only create a ripple effect of change. I'm really excited for the future of more people living a more intentional life that's in alignment with their soul's deeper truth! 🙌🏻
“Only woman and children are loved unconditionally. A man must prove his worth.” Men are taught their value comes from what they provide or accomplish. Woman are taught their value comes from how they look.
This is such a warm and cozy video, Nathaniel. Feels like talking to a close friend. Here's a thought that's crossing my mind after listening to you. Perhaps, everything comes down to the internal workings and motives of an individual. If providing comes from a place of love and deeper fulfillment, then it will build a man, rather than deplete him. If it comes from a place of fear of rejection or low self worth, it will cause more angst or anxiety.
I really like the color grading in this video. I would like to do pictures like this.
We're in dire need of addressing the insecurities/fragility of young men in all of our cultures, worldwide--too many young men are being pulled into such as incel and other radicalisms which see violence as okay. Personally I had an ugly and stupid childhood (in the U.S.) and this made me terribly insecure for decades--but it was also society and the expectations for men which continued to feed into my insecurities. As you say, acceptance and letting go are huge, but we certainly need a more systemic approach for the long term. It is good to see you looking into this, and I look forward to your further musings on this topic.
I don't agree at all - I think it depends on how you are raised - I know many women who feel their worth is dependent on what they contribute (very few that believe worth is based on beauty - but we must have that too) & I am your parent's age & have always felt worth is based on contribution
I agree, and I’m closer to Nathaniel’s age. The presumed stereotypes described in this video are barely recognizable to me amongst men and women I know in real life.
The fragility of the male ego isn’t being helped by red pill folks telling you that men are being under attack. I’ve been researching old alcohol industry media and I have started to believe that men’s egos have been leveraged for purchasing power since st the very least the beginning of commercial media production. It’s so refreshing to see you continue to talking about this important topic.
If rigidity is what causes fragility, why wouldn't you choose the term "male rigidity"? That's the root cause of the problem, right?
I guess "male rigidity" just doesn't pander to the misandric tendencies of the typical audience expected to consume these types of ideas.
It's too macho for their taste lol
@@nikeisagreekgoddess4135 if I had to guess it’s just the general sense of our lives being more expendable because of our mating habits. Women can pro-create once a year while men can daily. Biologically we’re just worth less. 😂
Alchool was always the way men used to drowed their sorrows, alchool consumption is increasing again in my country, most of our grandparents and even parent were/are drunks
Yesterday I was reading a book with the plot happening in Italy and it reminded me of you and I was like "damn, I miss one of those filosofal Nathaniel's videos. I must watch one tomorrow!". Well, destiny is here
The book title please 🙌🏻
@@Talkinbooks mr norrell and Jonathan strange! Its historical fantasy during war with napoleon. Most of it happens in england ignoring the war but there are some bits in portugal, spain and other european countries because of the war and now after the war ended, one of the characters is spending a lot of time in venice!
Always the most intelligent observations! Such valuable contribution to us all! Thank you :)
I really love that you broached this topic.
Perhaps that's why the idea of "parts of ourselves" in therapy works well. It's trying to disrupt that rigid idea we have of who we are. Different parts of ourselves respond to the world in different ways and those that feel threatened or fearful are parts we need to reconcile. Thanks Nathaniel ❤
As a woman, thank you for speaking out on this as a man!
My pleasure
This is an important message. I’m so happy you are addressing it. You have a valuable voice in this world. I’m retired. I will be 62 this year. I have been grappling with these thoughts. I know who I am and whose I am, nonetheless, it’s a constant battle to hear the still small voice over all the noise of the world.
I admire how you observe the world and speak up. Men and women are dynamic and needed. It’s a beautiful balance that is slowly being deconstructed and destroyed. The concept of gender and everything else in between is so chaotic these days. Thank you for the niche topic. It’s to the point and wonderfully illustrated in the way you speak.
I had a hard time understanding my femininity when growing in the world I have been taught from a young age to hustle, hustle harder because I’m Latina, hustle harder because I’m first generation, make yourself useful, beauty is pain and you have to sacrifice your ego. Don’t speak up because nobody cares what a woman has to say, just obey. Now more than ever it’s hard to just be my creative self without the invisible parameters of providing something útil.
Nathaniel, once again I appreciate you! I find your ideas and curiosity on any given subject interesting and thought provoking. Always look forward to what you have to share.
Chose a polarizing topic here 😆 Men need to be needed. It's not just an idea of the ego. It's a need like food and water and connection. It's not wrong. It's not bad. It's actually wonderful. And yes, when we women do everything that they were once doing, it'll feel like a threat. Well said, Nate. So then you offer the solution of detaching from value=utility. Sure, it is important to always remember that you're more than just the self etc. But my personal solution for this is to make space in my life where men can be of use to me. And there's a lot that I need from them that I am very happy about receiving on a consistent basis. This translates into a healthy confidence, mine and the mens needs being met so beautifully and a happy coexisting together. Trust me, most women would actually prefer someone coming and doing xyz for them because they're overwhelmed. The economical situation actually has many women feel in a forced position relative to making money, than it being their true desire.
The old ways were partly functional, but flawed in the shadows that came with control, strong expectations of what each party should be instead of their authentic selves and therefore a lack of freedom for relationship constellations that were different, failing to respect the different needs and wants of each partner. But many real needs and wants were actually met better in my opinion.
Your comment is absolutely spot-on. The only correct perspective here.
It seems to me that what you're talking about should be addressed only as "fragile ego"; it's not exclusive to insecure men but to insecure humans. I met/know of high-ranking women in the corporate world who suffer from this - both the feminine ones and the masculine ones. Also, on that line, what would we call this evergrowing need from women to sexualize themselves on SoMe (more extremely on OF) in the name of "sexual freedom" if not "fragile female ego" behavior? Most likely, a woman who doesn't expose her breasts online knows her worth is not just her physical appearance. Just food for thought.
P.S.: Not necessarily defending men; I look at most men and women with an online presence within a negative light anyway.
I completely agree!
Ooh loving the setting ur filming these- paris apartments looking so nice 👌 ❤
it says Chania in the description, I think he's in Crete
It's nice finding other men like this. Some days I feel like I'm on an island alone. Other men will usually point fingers at women and say "we're this way because women do XYZ" and that is exhausting so this is refreshing.
I love to listen to this guy; however, most of the time, I am not getting his point. But still, I listen to him carefully and appreciate his work!
You are being curious, that's good!
Both men and women have fragile egos. Its just women do not express it and even when they do it is acceptable socially. The perception about value of men does not exist in a vacuum where basically all men telling each other and checking each other about their utility. Women participate in this behavior too but very subtly , almost unspoken ways. The problem with any feminist rhetoric about men is that the image of men have also been flattened to be one dimensional. The current crisis comes NOT from men are being threatened by women joining the workforce , thats a misreading in my opinion. There is a steady decline of jobs among working class men , as noticed by many experts including people like Noam Chomsky. Free market economy has made thousands of men jobless. On the other hand the perception of 'free independent working' women is ONLY limited to an upper class privileged section of women who gets the white collar jobs. The aspirational free woman is not a mason , not a plumber , not a electrician ..but a teacher , a doctor , an investment banker. This has more to do with class. So now we are seeing working class males dissatisfied with society and media that glorifies upper class women , so their anger is more about being left out from that. These upper class women are often also quite patriarchal in mindset when it comes to their dating and daily life.
I don't want women working. women are often also quite patriarchal in mindset when it comes to their dating and daily life seems like a good thing to me.
Love that blue paint!
I absolutely loved this, so beautifully said
Thanks Nataniel, that was a great video! I agree with your clear and well thought out ideas.
I really appreciate this video. He attacks mens fragile ego but there’s actually something so accepting about this mindset towards us men. I wish this was how most of society thought
Any thoughts on the egos of sons of single parent (mums) what is going on! Any chance of a video on what goes on in teenage boys' heads? My nearly 18 year old old son is acting like I'm a competitor in a game not his mother. He has shut down all communication. He used to be talkative and curious. Now he's really intimidating. I asked him to move in with my brother and he screamed at me, I was scared, so I got my brother to 'facilitate' that move. My parents are telling me to tell him I love him but he seems to hate me so much, it wouldn't feel authentic right now. He has so little respect for me that I feel that that would make things worse in the long run. He seems competitive with me which is strange, imo. Like he's at the start of his life. I might not be a millionaire but I'm at peace with it. I'm secure. This is my journey. He is on the brink of his own journey with exams coming up but focused on how ''shit'' my life is! He told me I have a shit job. I said well at least I have a job (my job is not that shit!). He told me I'll have a shit pension. Again, at least I have a pension. He said my house is shit. I said well, I'm grateful for it. Just a lot of abuse and criticism that I'm allegedly so mediocre and such an under achiever. I've done OK in challenging circumstances. He's always been supported until I could take no more. I wonder what the hell is going on in his head. What is all the hate and why is it directed at his mother?! Honestly baffled.
How old is he ?
Where is his Dad? .. That's who he is maybe screaming for.
@@marcsteddybearuhhhh?
Such a useful food for thought! I literally kept notes. Thank you Nathaniel for all of your work and for sharing your ideas with us, you are truly inspiring and one of my top favorites creators in general ❤️❤️
Listening to your thoughts is always a pleasure 🙏🏽🎵🎶
Today's economies make money off of the human ego and insecurities. If we know our own power and worth outside of external factors, then economies will need to be overhauled and re-imagined.
That's where the fear comes in.
We (because we dont know you) can only value you for the stuff you make and how you present yourself but within your creations are all the experiences and connections you've made. So tangentially we're valuing you for your generosity, your curiosity, your kindness, your humor and courage. Not to mention Pride Aaaand humility. Not NOT appreciating your artistry and general aesthetics though.
Beautifully put Nate ❤
Nat you gave me hope for humanity 🫡
Aren'nt we all fragile eggs hiding behind bubble wrap and false bravado?
I'm very intrigued to hear more of you thoughts in this topic !
I agree that the idea's been around a long time. You can see characters talking about the fragile male ego in American TV shows from the 1950s.
Thanks from Costa Rica.
Thank you!
Eckhart Tolle: How to Free Yourself from Your Ego Armor
1.Observe Your Mind. ...
2. Distinguish Between the Voice of Ego and the Actual Situation. ...
3.Let Go of Limiting Stories. ...
4.Bring In Your Awareness. ...
5.Lay Down Your Weapons.
4:25 the only thing I guess I would say to this is you are welcome to go about not being very useful as a man, however the likelihood that you will trigger the part of the female brain that is truned on is very close to zero. So unfortunatley you may find peace that way as a man, but it is possible that you won't find love.
Why do you have so difficulty of being together with a woman… ? I have lived in all kinds of relationships with woman… It’s the most natural way of relate… or when you are gay. But I definitely appreciate your honesty as always. You are a very young man and so attractive, you will get any woman that you desire ❤ Stop over think it… please
If you don’t try you end up lonely and bitter, so many I know end up like that unfortunately 😢
Really great words Nathanial. I'd love to have a drink with you sometime.
I agree with a lot of what is being said. However, it's not having a "fragile male ego" for a man to strive to be a provider or a protector. This is why we are here it is what men are called to do. To be in service of something greater, whether that be God, country, or family. This is the way men are hardwired, and many men feel most happy when fulfilling these roles.
That is exactly the socialisation Nathaniel is talking about and not "wired by nature". It is such a cliché that "men are called to be in service of something greater", the old hero-story that is now making the male ego fragile because they were taught to not have feelings (apart of aggressive ones) and expected to be strong and tough, while women were supposed to be caring and nice and thankful to those heroes. I don't need a hero, I don't need a provider and I don't need to be saved - I am my own hero, provider and savior. Why is the self confidence of a man broken if a woman dos not NEED him, but just loves/appreciate him for his personality and character?
@@bekindfox You may not need a hero and that’s great. However, Men being called to something greater is not a cliché. It’s the way we’re hardwired. We feel this calling in our soul and it’s universal. There’s something spiritual about it. It’s been like that since before my ancestors were in the Roman army and it will likely always be that way.
@bekindfox He wasn’t necessarily talking about protecting you or women in general. Everything doesn’t turn around what place men think women should take. And by the way there is a lot of people to protect in this world and it has nothing to do with their gender. Think a little out of your box, it might help
@@Mynys67 The title of the video is literally gendered 🤦♂️ 😆
@@michaelgagliano1423 Hi I was answering to bekindfox ;)
A woman's utility is often found in her ability to bear children. They are often looked at as breeding animals. Same with being a housewife/cook/maid and so on and so forth. When I was dating, a potential mother-in-law looked at me as if I was some sort of heifer. I quickly exited the scene.
So that's the reason people are SO SCARED of automation! I always thought the fear was because down the line we would forget skills and become completely hapless if something broke, and/or starving to death because no jobs (I guess the people who think the latter are against social programs/government).
But this makes so much sense, It's much more immediate! People place so much value on being useful! Wow, thanks for the realization! I would never have come to this conclusion myself. I wonder why I never understood that.
From what I’ve also understood one of the main reasons people are so against immigration is because they think that means they are going to be replaced. Our whole economy and mindset about work is still very industrial and in that world we are seen as merely small interchangeable parts of a greater machine. So too our gender roles used to fit snuggly within the industrial worldview but now with things changing to fast we need a new story to tell ourselves. A new identity to guide us as our old worldviews and habits are slowly being torn apart by greater automation. We are going through a paradigm shift and seriously need to realign our identities. Exciting but also very difficult and challenging times I say
@@Vilhelmnilsson You're right! Where I live people claim they don't like immigrants because they think their "race" and/or culture is going extinct or something, but I can see how the "going to get replaced" fear is the underlying factor. This honestly explains so much about humans.
You're right, it is exciting. If it wasn't for all the fear which could lead to war, then I'd be a lot more optimistic.
My government (UK) hates Economically Inactive Units. It's the new term for People.
@@98Zaiyeah,anyone would think we were all 19th century native Americans....
I naively thought that we -plebeians- were exploited, sorry, adapted to society only because of our ability to feed the system : produce more goods and ensure its sustainability until our expiry date. For one part by working, and for the other by working while renewing the pool of money makers.
But today I must say I am in awe , I’ve just caught a glimpse of how most of our cellmates viewed their feminine counterparts : empty shells, but pretty ones…
Well, I don’t really know which perspective I fancy the most
We should value other's "properties" regardeless if they are males or females. We'll meet a considerably small number of people in our life compared to the total population, so we should not reason with averages, we might interact with only outliers and act accordingly. For example, since I was a kid I've always valued my utility, even though my parents raised me as a girl, I've always acted differently. You don't know how hard it is to put pressure on yourself to achieve something tangible and then having no one to value you for it, because "you're a girl, if you fail or not it doesn't matter, there are other things that should be valued in a girl". If a man values its usefulness that should be appreciated, if he values something else it should be appreciated too, people just want to be recognized for who they are.
Hope my english is not too scrambled.
I think men and women need to come together to discuss these issues from a place of curiosity. We both have been socialised in toxic ways and there is much to learn from each other about our experiences. Neither have it worse but struggle in our own ways.
Have you heard of the pendullum effect? It's the idea that in time, values, beliefs, practices, and even expectations swing from one extremity to another, going slightly less farther with each swing. and eventually it comes to a halt in the middle. It's even observed with things like homophobia (previous generations were majorly homophobic, now it's become sort of a brand to be queer *sad but true don't attack me* and now more and more people are starting to have a balance of thoughts regarding queer topics where it's a normal thing).
Queer is just fucking weird word for me.
Queer is a term used to describe a variety of sexual and gender identities that are not cisgender or heterosexual. It can also refer to people who reject traditional labels for their sexual orientation, gender identity, or romantic orientation.
The term has a complex history:
Origin: The word "queer" originally meant "strange" or "peculiar".
Late 19th century: It was used in a derogatory way against LGBT people.
Late 1980s: Queer activists reclaimed the word as a neutral or positive self-description.
Today: It's used by many people to identify with pride, but some LGBT people still view it as a slur.
Queer can also be used to describe the rejection of the perceived norms of the LGBT community, such as racism, ableism, or sizeism.
Some examples of queer identities include: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender.
Some examples of queer expressions include: Queer arts, Queer cultural groups, Queer political groups, Queer theory, and Queer studies.
It's best to ask people what labels they prefer before using the term "queer".
Thank you.
I have a question “To what extent our human nature and how we have evolve as men and women determine our social problems like this one?” The fact that men have the need of validate their power on nature influences. If someone can help this would be great
I remember the day I realised that my output wasn't a contribution to who I was as a person.
That's not to say I don't still fall for it - creating things is my favourite thing to do, but I guess my relationship with it has changed a lot.
That is a big moment
That fireplace must be higly efficient... you are wearing a t-shirt only
Being useful and productive should be everyone's goal in life. But it shouldn't habour our sense of worth. We are worthy because we exist. Young men (and women too) are comparing themselves to others too much on social media. Endless comparison each and every day.....each and every scroll is damaging the egos and mental health of our young people.
Thanks for speaking on this! My hope is that this encourages others to think g about how this plays out in their own lives. I’m nonbinary and have spent (am still spending) a lot of time undoing the harm that comes from being socialized into this hegemonic version of masculinity.
Im sure you know this, but didn’t say it in the video- there’s more to it than just society valuing men’s utility. Men and boys are also punished if they try to make their source of value come from beauty, or any source that is seen as unmanly.
Many people shy away from the term feminism, but this is a major part of it. For a good overview and one of the best books I’ve ever read, please check out The Will to Change by bell hooks. She has some ideas that will change your life and give you a lot of hope in this regard
I am currently watching the "Lupin" Netflix series. Every time I watch, the main character's friend Benjamin reminds me of you so much 😅. And also because of french!! You ARE French now 😋. To me
... in the way of my peoples to spill the tea.
...God has all the answers...
Sometimes, I just like to cut to the chase. Humbly, fearfully, with appreciation for his wonderful mystery.
Peace be with you
How can I share this video? It’s amazing!
the share button is right below u
Love this. 🥰🥰
J'adore entendre un homme parler de ces sujets, merci de prendre cette place! J'habite à Montréal, et je suis psychothérapeute. Je rencontre beaucoup d'hommes qui cherchent leur place dans un monde en changement. Je me considère féministe, ce qui n'empêche pas du tout d'être sensible aux difficultés que traversent les hommes en lien avec leur socialisation. Parmi les thèmes qui reviennent, je retrouve les difficultés reliées à la colère et l'agressivité. Toutes les émotions semblent passer pour certains hommes par la colère. Je considère que la société les a laissé tomber à cet égard. J'aimerais beaucoup avoir ton avis en tant qu'homme à ce sujet. Merci d'exister!
Happy that you are not my therapist!
Day 95 of asking where you got your clear spectacles from 😅
Well today is your lucky day. The brand is called Moscot
Can I ask which model of glasses it is? I want to buy the exact pair. Thanks!
@@nobackupplanthank you sir!
@@nobackupplanis it the Miltzen model? Is it light grey or crystal? Sorry but Im looking for these exact ones
Lmaooo
omg these colors😍
Nathanial, this 7-minute video of Terence McKenna [1946-2000] may interest you, "The Male Ego Has Led Us Astray". He addresses the issue in an historical context. This is probably from the 1970s. McKenna was a polymath, including being a futurist, and was remarkably prescient about issues of today.
th-cam.com/video/1gLDjn1FFDg/w-d-xo.htmlsi=NBOVKYqyUCxJ4_XE
Have you moved to France?
“Safe” housewives
I recommend to you to watch strip down rise up
Unfortunately all the "it's just socialization" talk in the world which we've already heard for a decade is always going to ring hollow as long as it runs into the barrier of so many men's continued lived experience of being judged by women for their ability to provide and act "masculine".
Ego is fear based, and you won't get anywhere just dismissing why that fear persists. You might disagree with it, but the volume of experience out there has to mean something.
If people are afraid, of course ego rises to protect them if nobody else will show them care. I'm disappointed to see this kind of one sided video from you because I believe it just reinforces the problem. This kind of message has been everywhere for so long and yet I feel like even more than 10 years ago guys today feel like they need to lean traditionally masculine. Something clearly isn't working with this messaging.
I would say a part of it wasn't just that men have "fragile egos" when it came to the barbie movie. It was the fact it felt like for many a 2 hour lecture on how awful men are. It also tries to act like being a man just gets you things within the movie itself when Ken goes into the real world for a job when the reality is that's only something that exists for a very small amount of guys out there. Most men don't just get handed things because they are men, Most men hardly get noticed and the ones that do typically get viewed as a threat or a preditor without anything to go off outside of how they look.
Some men definitely have fragile egos and can't deal with women being above them in a job or doing better in life but I do think a lot of women problems get massively aplifyed while men's issues just get pushed to one side. A saying I head was something along the lines of "when women have an issue people say 'society' needs to change, when men have issues they get told to deal with it". That's not just by men that's also by women. The issue is online is typically it's not a nuanced discussion it's always someone whos blinded to what others on the opposing sides of the discussion go through.
This!
Can you please do videos about man?
Dude he's assaulting men He's a male feminist is a male feminist who identifies as male.
Why would he defend men?
Sadly, for those of us who yearn for a world of peace and harmony, my personal opinion is that most of the human « ego » problems all stem from the unyielding biology with which we are born, and which is a force we will always be in dance with. Survival, sex and procreation are probably the most profound motivators of life on this planet, and pretty much based on a biological needs and urges. The acquirement of nutrients, shelter, and sex,basically hinges on the attractiveness of the target, and then the acquirement of the target..,and that basically hinges on the power to acquire it by force or manipulation. Being beautiful, for a woman, equals protection and survival, because men are usually physically stronger. Being strong, for a man, also equals survival and ensures his attractiveness to a woman. As we become more civilized, and capable of surviving in smaller groups, and even alone; we strain against our biology, and struggle to grow our intellect, our spirituality, and our awareness of pleasures, beyond sex and comfort. Nonetheless, biology is a nuclear force…ergo “ego” (our sense of value), is wounded when we perceive ourselves (or feel that others perceive us), as unattractive, either aesthetically or powerfully. (Okay…about as well as I can phrase it on a TH-cam commentary, lol).
Very well put, I agree!!
If these roles are given by nature - then why in the animal world it is mostly the males to be more color- and beautiful? :-D
I apologize in advance but the guy wrote the song that Bonnie Tyler has recorded so excellently "Holding Out For A Hero" got it right. It's also why there never will be World Peace.
Good point, @bekindfox, and, I have no idea! But, besides the fact that every species has its own biology, I still think it is boiling down to the fact that it is important to the survival of a species to dedicate energy towards manipulating itself, or its environment, in a way that enables it to either attract mates through beauty, or the ability to provide shelter; or to whatever is necessary to ensure procreation and survival of enough offspring. My guess, is that most of this occurs due to biology…hormones, chemistry, etc.; and is manifested instinctually, rather than by conscious thought….although, in humans, I believe conscious thought is definitely used, but, nonetheless, fueled by biological machinations. (Can you tell I’m not a scientist, LOL!)
@@janebaker966Hahaha! I’m deeply afraid you have said a Truth! May there be a way to overcome our biological impulses!
So you have issues with self worth Nathan? Get over it. Start by disconnecting from your parents. That will allow you to grow up and become a real person. Thats my free advice. I recommend that you take it. Free but valuable advice.
He's a A male feminist is a feminist who identifies as male. I don't take anything he has to say seriously.
I feel like your stand point is kind of outdated. I dont believe men are threatened by women (or the new position of women) but because most men never thought about reconsidering their place in society. I have always worked and most of my life earned more than my partners. And there has been many Time when we were at turns unemployed. I just cannot imagine if my partners at the time would have been « delicate « about their identity. Men need to work on themselves more than ever,or they just will be left behind. They have to set the bar much higher and stop complaining. They have to take responsibility for their future and the future of their sons
Brother I have put so many hours listening to people that approach the issue of identity...it has been a real conscious effort to seek alternative perspectives and that issue becomes very spicy when you conflate it with gender roles.
The idea that rigidity creates fragility is very useful, mostly in the aspect of emotional regulation. As far as individuation strategies go, when you seek self-awareness and attempt to clean house from beliefs that don't work, this one you are proposing is the one that works the least. It is pure self-deprecation.
The fact of the matter is that we are objects for each other. We perform functions of utility to those around us, men and women. Usefulness is a universal issue that will dictate your status, which is what all these personal crisis can be boiled down to. Women's usefulness to men is dictated by what men want from women and viceversa.
If you are a man, you are expected to perform masculinity in order to be eligible to enter the medium through which value is exchanged (relationship), usually with a woman capable of performing femininity.
We can agree that identifying yourself with that performative aspect is never a viable long-term strategy. You will suffer unnecessarily if you beat yourself down for being married with children and unemployed for an extended period of time. It's already hard to to see the lives of your loved ones become harder as a direct consequence of your financial situation, so why make it worse letting that emasculate you?
The first reason for that extra suffering, that seems unnecessary, is that your inability to bring to the table the things you are expected to, automatically lets you know you are providing less of an incentive for your partner to keep exchanging value with you. That doesn't mean they will leave, it means their attitude towards you may change. Obviously, good relationships have patience and compassion, which will outlast most hardships, but not forever. You are expected to bring your part to the table, it still is a transaction. So the suffering is caused by ones inability to bring the desired value to the table.
I find your approach on male individuation to be ignorant of these things I mention. It therefore becomes extremely ineffective in its goal to help men as it shows how poorly you understand not just the male experience, but the transactional aspect of relationships (not just the intimate types btw).
I wish we could all learn to place our inherent value in the fact that we are living beings that exist, mostly when assessing the value of others. That, however could not be further from possible and only a fool would quality themselves as someone who does that.
As a side note, if you really want to make a decent attempt at persuading men, try to avoid those performative "women are so great" talking points. Maybe you're just pandering to the female audience, but it cheapens the message as most comparisons do.
I have found a very gracious, honest and persuasive message in the content Dr. Orion Taraban creates. Maybe you'd like it.
Only men have weak egos? You really think that? Almost everyone I know has some form of ‘weak ego’. Male or female. You know how you not have a weak/fragile/delicate ego? By not giving a shit about what anybody says about you. My own parents said I wouldn’t be able to accomplish anything I have done in my life. National level athlete, trained classical soloist to performance level along with three degrees. Two which are graduate level. How I did I do this? Unrelenting work and knowing I could do it. Sure, it doesn’t hurt to be 6’2”, incredibly good looking and literally have a genius iq. But that doesn’t guarantee anything without doing it.
Also around the premise of Socialisation, I do think a lot of people don't realise that it's only half the issue. A lot of people think this feeling of inadequacy that men might feel when they don't feel useful is just sociatol when a lot of it is ingrained into how we are and how our brains developed. Mens and Womens Boddies aren't designed to do the same things. Mens and Womens brains don't function the exact way. A lot of the issues that get brought up is normally a negativity towards the mens way of being vs the womens. Hense why in a lot of manosphere stuff they'll say "they want to change men into women". I don't believe that's an objective of people but I do think we are taught that mens emotions are bad such as anger, When we are kids we get told it's awful and to just stop. When women are upset when they are kids they get told to let it out.
The actual differences between men and women are SO marginal. We need to drop the false premise of material difference and support everyone to be fully multidimensional HUMANS.
Actually that's early 1970s thinking,girls are just boys with bumps. Now,we know a lot more about innate differences in male and female bodies. A man's body has got greater muscle strength than a woman who is physically the same size. The body mass is different. It's why "trans" competing in women's sport is so controversial. Now that women are playing football at professional level it's being revealed that the woman's body is vulnerable to certain injuries that men dont get. And the sport equipment needs redesigning to be more suitable for women to handle. Also now the stress and toll on the female body of menstruation is being recognized,it also fucks up your psyche,and for many women going through the menopause,the end of menstruation that brings bodily changes is traumatic too. No,not physically the same at all. The differences are far from just cultural or learned.
yes and no, first depends on you were raised,second nowadays some rebel agaisnt the norms just to be contrarian, men usually are think more utilitarian and women more sentimental but like everything is not black and white, men show feelings but not in the same way a women would show them, men relantionships are more superficial and ´task´based, women like more to hung out or call eachother with no reason.
Bro thinks it’s only a men’s issue, while women also put pressure on the men to be the best and if your not you’re garbage😂
@@Jakebrand11208 cry more lmao 🤣
@@AntiImperialist666 and you’re are part of the reason why men and boys off themselves
Really interesting! However, I would add, that women don’t only battle with the expectation of being beautiful, but also with the sensitive and emotional „work“ of a relationship that men sometimes seem to „outsource“ on us.
Love that you're asking this, man oh man is this question extensive. I mean Melinda Gates book said that women do an extra seven years of unpaid domestic labor as apposed to men, so its not always about 'use' but more what Patriarchy tells men to value and prioritise and whom. How do men come to believe their time is of more value? identity, scarcity mentality, sexism???... I do think Bell Hooks is definitely the place to begin (after Barbie obvi) Have you checked out Prison Feminism? Amanda Seales has a fab episode on her podcast with Richie its called Side affects of Prison Feminism. I also think you'd love an amazing feminist Australian author Clementine Ford. Her books Include Boys will be boys, Fight like a girl, How I love and her last is on the History of marriage and it is so so good its called 'I Don't'. Another great Australian feminist is Sommer Tothill and you can find her on Insta and youtube too.
Are you serious? When you talk about fragile egos, immediately what comes to mind are women. Every single women I have come to know couldn't take any criticism or any responsibility when things go wrong.
To your point about competition: I have never felt personally threatened by a woman's "competency". But that I admit maybe is something that has more to do with me and my personality. I'm exceptionally good at what I do. But furthermore I would argue that in general women are not very good at doing most things on the level of men. In almost every field I look at, at the top, I observe a vast majority of males, it's unlike to see a women do anything highly creative on deeply intellectual on the very top, highest level. That is why when the rare occasion of that occurs these women become very attractive to intellectual men of their fields who would like a partner on their level, which as I explained: is a very rare thing to find.
Seems like you're good at taking this too.
The truth is actually both men and women have fragile egos. This is a result of the how society conditioned us humans.
Societal changes have now pitched men and women in direct competition with each other. How do you think that can possibly play out?
Women are generally attracted to men with access to resources and those that are 'masculine' in their nature. This is basic female nature, wanting a secure future.
Men are attracted to healthy and attractive women as they wish their offspring to be healthy and successful.
As for women making progress... Are they? How many women in their 20's 30's and 40's are unmarried and childless? What are the predictions for their futures? This is a complicated subject. A 5 minute video just won't cut it. :-)
"How do you think that can possibly play out?" We can learn to give.
@@cantbendknee What are you willing to give away?
@@marcsteddybear What do you need?
It's clear you watch a lot of red pill bs 🙄🙄
@cantbendknee its apparently very difficult for other men, especially heteros, to get out of that mindset
Never done this before. What leave your parents guestroom?
Skip this one boys
There's that fragile male ego showing through
@@ellegmye cherish your ego ❤
Can I ask your age?
What about men?
Keep lying to yourself.
Do you have something to add?
Can I ask your age?
Quite the vague criticism
Male feminists
A male feminist is a feminist who identifies as male.
He believes that women need more sexual choice and that men are more sexually privileged than women. Even though the vast majority of men have 0 reproductive choice, with almost no dating pool, and no choice about reproduction even once in a relationship. And even though women have near infinite reproductive choice as far as partners and birth options. It is hypothesized that many of them do so in order to obtain pussy, and in failing to do so, resort to rape as their rational and moral capabilities were low in the first place.[1]
@@soundscape26 A white knight is a "nice guy" obsessed with the idea of coming to a woman's aid. He is typically overprotective of women, takes any minor complaints towards them very personally, and subconsciously believes women can do no wrong.
White knights are often sneaky and manipulative towards females. They may defend females from verbal or physical insults. Not rarely, they will throw other men under the bus only to increase their chance with a woman, or only to appear socially favorable. White knights are very convinced of their moral superiority, typically motivated by feminism and, unwittingly, by their sexual frustration.
Both women and men hate white knights. Women hate them because their niceness pressures them into reciprocity, but nice men do not fulfill women's mating preference for the most dominant men available. An exclusively nice man cannot be dominant. Men hate white knights because they inflate women's egos and standards.
First! It's been so long since I've been first