The lip service that the board members are giving the interviewer is total BS. What makes that orchestra great are the MUSICIANS! And cutting their salaries will mean losing them. This is very short-sided thinking on the part of the leadership. Dollar to donuts, the leadership just wants to put more money in their own pockets. These people will be known as the ones who destroyed SF Symphony
"leadership just wants to put more money in their own pockets" Is this a joke? Arts leadership barely gets paid relative to any other leadership. Musicians are very highly paid.
I agree! For me, classical music has ALWAYS been about the MUSIC first, the musicians after that and the conductor a DISTANT third! Yes, I have some favorite conductors that I really like, but in all honesty, I have NEVER really been star struck by the conductors. Call me the odd man out, but this is how I feel. And, I can live with that!
Geeslin compared having a great conductor to going on a nice vacation. When asked about SFS, Spivey talked about other orchestras or orchestras in general. The Symphony is not in good hands.
I don't know much about the business side of this. But I am a longtime subscriber who sits in the balcony. I have been to many concerts at which the balcony has less than 50 people in it!! The orchestra is usually pretty well attended but otherwise it's very sad. There have been exceptions, like an all-Scandinavian/Russian concert that was pretty full. And they do get good soloists such as Yuja Wang. It just doesn't seem enough. So I'm not surprised there is a shortfall at least well below what might be hoped. If people aren't as interested in classical music as they used to be, it's going to hurt, even if they do get some philanthropists to help.
Gesslin and Spivey need to step down. They are on track to destroy the orchestra and its chorus. If they disagree with Salonen's artistic direction, that's fine (he is admittedly idiosyncratic, modernist, and experimental, which may or may not resonate fully with the audiences the orchestra is trying to bring in, though it seems the orchestra at least loves him, and audiences seem pretty enthusiastic too), but then they need to articulate a new artistic direction that maintains and bolsters the orchestra's world-class posture. They can't just propose endless budget cuts, like eliminating touring, soundbox, paid chorus members, failing to restore pre-covid musician pay, etc., and think that's going to lead to anything good. But that's all they've done so far, and every few months they propose cutting something else. If they were any good at the job, they'd be finding ways to generate excitement around those things to raise the funds to pay for them, instead of giving up and just cutting everything. Why run an orchestra at all then? It's an expensive money-losing venture from the beginning, in case they hadn't noticed. (But I do like the proposals for improvements to the Davies Symphony Hall lobbies and exterior, to move the entrance, add a recital hall, etc.)
Geeslin and Spivey dodged many of the questions. They come off as PR hacks, as opposed to the management of a symphony. The biggest villain are the tech companies and their employees. There’s nearly zero philanthropy from the companies, and their employees have no interest in attending the symphony.
Exactly. They dodged the questions. They seem like they’re running a small town orchestra. But yeah, the real problem is that SF has undergone a radical change in the last 25 years from artsy town to tech town. The new money of SF has no class. They’re only into their flashy gadgets, cars, and homes…not into the fine arts. Organizations like the opera and symphony are doomed.
But why are the tech companies and their employees villainy if they just aren’t into this sort of music? I asked a friend to Mahler’s 4th once and he swore never to come to one ever. 😢 There’s just no way to force ppl off Taylor Swift and make them embrace Brahms & Bruckner. 🤷♂️
You hit the nail directly on the head. That’s the thing with the tech companies-they’re not about the same culture as the “old” money was. You’d think the new generation would be all about modern multicultural music in a town like San Francisco.
Tickets are crazy expensive, it’s one thing if there’s big demand, but if you’re trying to convince new people (my age, genZ) to join and explore the genre, you’re going to do that with $80 tickets. Not to mention a lot of those seats just sit empty. I love the symphony, been to em all around the world, Berlin, London, Buenos Aires, they all have young adult tickets! Not just students, 18-26 year old, less than $20. You’re not selling those seats anyways, might as well. It was way easier to convince my friends to join a show back then than it is in sf.
Notice this report doesn’t mention what the base pay for musicians is, or what board members are paid (look it up). The general San Fran public would be horrified given the financial mess the city is currently experiencing.
I am always amazed to see empty seats in Davis Symphony Hall. Your audience is getting older (and older, and older). Why aren't you handing out unsold tickets for free tickets to high schoolers? To college students? And why aren't you playing the music that the audience wants to hear?
LA PHIL does 20$ tickets for ALL performances for both high school and college students and SF basically only does it for thursday matinee performances and only available to college students. its gross
@@IvarsBezdechi so much of classical music that seems to be played is boring and pertaining to older audiences. The composers that furthered my interest in classical music weren’t Bach or Beethoven etc., though they’re some of the foundations for classical music there is so much more. Shostakovich, Ginastera, Takashi Yoshimatsu made me more interested (of course many more), but are rarely played. This is just my opinion of course, but as someone who also has played in symphonies (as a violist sorry), there’s so much more music to explore
@@Tjgtjgtjg This comment! I teach middle and high school orchestra. They love and understand the necessity of learning the classics. But there’s so much to be explored: video game, movie, neo classical/neo romantic composers, etc. I play viola/string bass in a local symphony.
Play the modern classics: excellent film scores! These are the best pieces of music being written today because that’s where composers can make a great impression on a public audience and their living. Bach wrote for the church. Mozart, Beethoven for wealthy patrons, the opera industry, Tchaikovsky for the ballet. Great composers go where the money is. Today, that’s composing soundtracks. And there is astounding talent there. Use it!
@@afriendlyfaceinthecrowd Wow! Thank you sooo much for saying that. In the Delaware Valley of s.e. Pennsylvania, our classical station WRTI uses 5-6pm as "Flix at 5" and plays the beautifully and intelligently composed soundtracks. M.Mus. West Chester University Pennsylvania
I love music and have been to the symphony a handful of times. But honestly I don’t feel great about taking my family through the Civic Center at night.
@@prometheusrex1 Correct, it doesn’t feel totally safe. I admittedly haven’t been there for a few years but in the past I’d sometimes come across erratic characters, homeless, etc. The BART/Muni station definitely set off my Spidey sense.
Totally agree. The Civic Center area is unsafe at night. You don't want to be standing there trapped while waiting for a bus and being harassed by druggies. Parking is limited and expensive, which means Uber or a taxi, which can be almost as expensive, on top of ticket cost and that's not too affordable either.
You cannot allow the destruction of the city by choice then expect patrons to ignore their surroundings and support a history that is no longer present. The city governance has shown residents what they think of them and now they in turn are showing you. I would suggest packing up several huge vans and moving yourself to a city that respects your talents and its audience. The audience hasn’t left because it no longer appreciates the art … Act quickly, the patient is nearing hospice. Don’t allow its passing
I think one orchestra between LA and SF is enough. The same is probably true of the East Coast. Do Washington, Baltimore and Philadelphia need their own orchestras? Philadelphia could cover all three cities with a reduced number of concerts in each city. Distances are short between the cities, so transport would not be a big problem.
It is sad to see how unappreciated the Symphony is... at the same time, the Symphony is losing the respect by prioritizing "film with live orchestra" over the core music for symphonic group...
This is pandemic and not just SF. The only sure draw these days is the movie/track thing. Could it be the symphony ( small s ) is a 19th century artifact and its time has passed?
@@BeeMichaelOnly a minor issue in Germany, where the classical music institutions are subsidised by the state and tickets are thus more affordable. Today, all Berlin orchestras and opera houses sell similarly well to pre-pandemic times, often they sell out completely. But they didn’t cut budgets or chase away talent.
@@BeeMichael "Could it be the symphony ( small s ) is a 19th century artifact and its time has passed?" People have been saying that for 50 years, even as professional orchestras have proliferated, expanded, improved in quality, and greatly increased their budgets and payrolls (though sometimes gone belly up). The pandemic was indeed a big hit, and while temporary assistance (and everyone sacrificing together) allowed most orchestras to weather the storm, the withdrawal of that assistance prior to audiences coming back in the same numbers as before added to the hurt. Entertainment is still not where it was before. In live pop / rock / rap music, the biggest acts are doing fine, but everyone else is suffering, and canceling shows, tours, and festivals because the numbers don't add up. It's not just classical that's affected. I used to be shocked enough that SFS administrative staff equalled in number the orchestra members, but now staff substantially outnumber the musicians. The Berlin Philharmonic has, as far as I know, exactly ONE full-time staff member who isn't a musician of the orchestra. While it's possible the BPO might farm out some work to contractors that SFS does in house, mostly it's the musicians themselves who take on the work. SFS doesn't have to be anywhere near that extreme, but it's clear that if cutbacks are taking place, the musicians are the LAST place they should be looking to do so, instead of the first, and that administrative staff is a big fat, redundant target, and should be considered the low-hanging fruit. (I realize those people also have jobs etc., but their skills tend to be more transferable to similarly-paid jobs elsewhere in the same geographic region. There are no other similarly-paid orchestra jobs in Northern California.)
This is a little bit like the debates among Roman Catholics "We're shrinking because we don't do everything in Latin anymore" No, I think the film scores are what even make it possible to subsidize the great classics that we classical fans actually love. Its the problem with leaving art to "market forces" instead of prioritizing beauty and culture above capitalism.
IMHO, Salonen is one of the most highly regarded, pedestrian conductors in play. I don't know why any orchestra would hire him when there are so many young, talented, energetic, intelligent conductors emerging in the symphonic world. Hebert Blomstedt brought the orchestra to world class quality. MTT maintained that, to the degree to which he was able, and its been a long, slow, gradual downward seep since then. The board needs to get some people on board who understand that they need to find the right person, male or female, to work with this fine, virtuosic group and return it to the status it deserves. If San Fran wants to be world class city, it's going to need a world class symphony orchestra. Otherwise, it will be just like all the other places no one really wants to live.
Salonen said it himself. He wants to be an innovator. He wants to modernize the orchestra, bring in new and most importantly living composers, experiment with new music and blend it with the old rather than play the same old same old Tchaikovsky 5, Beethoven 5. To think that the all-Sibelius concert I attended recently was actually refreshing and new, and Sibelius has been gone for how many years😂 It costs only so much money, but not so much money that the endowment can’t afford, just a conservative and stingey board, standing in the way of culture. I like the orchestra, I love the conductor, but I respect him for not having the time of day for such nonsense.
>>>He wants to be an innovator. He wants to modernize the orchestra, bring in new and most importantly living composers, experiment with new music and blend it with the old rather than play the same old same old Tchaikovsky 5, Beethoven 5. Pierre Boulez tried to do the same thing back in the day with NY Philharmonic after Bernstein retired. It utterly failed, but he did succeed in losing the orchestra's core audience attendance. Bravo, Maestro! He would program some new composer in between two classical-era works such as an early Haydn symphony at the start, and an early Mozart symphony at the end. Sorry, but most concertgoers actually LIKE Sibelius, Tchaikovsky, Brahms, Schumann, et al. That's what they're paying for; that's what the symphony should give them. Most concertgoers have zero interest in hearing new music by contemporary composers, probably with good reason: much of it is crap that was originally paid for via grants. Read "The Agony of Modern Music" by modern music critic Henry Pleasants for the sordid details. If I want to look at modern paintings, I'll go to the Whitney; if I want to look at Vermeer and Renoir, I'll go to the Frick. I don't want a curator interspersing "abstract" paintings in between the Dutch Masters and the French Impressionists in order to "teach me something" and "make me more cultured." If I wanted that, I'd attend some lectures. While you're at it, read "Who Killed Classical Music" and "The Maestro Myth" for insights into the corporate-PR side of the classical music "biz." It's very enlightening in a disturbing sort of way.
@@economicfreedom8591 Hey, you quoted my entire comment, good job😂 Now, as for those books, I’ll look into them, and maybe you as well, since I have found that it’s honestly a 50/50 chance that someone has actually read the books when someone says “read this” as proof of their obviously immense knowledge and insight😉 Look, I’m actually in a (small) orchestra and I perform (small) concerts as a soloist. I also engage in fundraising campaigns with some donor friends for my local philharmonic society. Are we on this level as the SF symphony? No where near, but we try, and the results are shocking. The truth is that our audience population is getting old, very old. They may buy tickets day in and day out, but when you ask me what concerts they go to the most, the results are interesting. It’s the concerts with the old favorites, exactly as you said! But these concerts absolutely pale in comparison, attendance-wise, to when we put on something new. And by something new, I don’t just mean living composers. I mean concerts of older music that you don’t often see, like an entire concert devoted to Mahler’s Resurrection Symphony, or the full performance of Bach’s Goldberg Variations, or Itzhak Perlman coming and giving to us one of his home-video concerts that have been proving ever-so-popular in other cities. Ever seen Mussorgsky’s Pictures paired with video displays by students from USC? Tried that, I didn’t like it, but the turn out was great! And the turn out? So many young people! We even worked with local schools to get their kids in!!! The current (old) population may like the old favorites, but they can’t be trusted to sustain anything anymore. They will be gone eventually, we all will🤷🏻♂️ Classical music has to be made fun and fresh, and that means new music, interesting finds from the old, and the old favorites all muddled together into a truly refreshing, but cohesive experience. Also, I don’t know what modern music you have found yourself listening to, but there is an incredible wealth of talented young composers out there. I was at UCSD just a few months ago to attend a world premiere of a peace that the college orchestra commissioned from one of their alumni composers. It was entirely in a pianissimo dynamic, and only random C-major chords. At various points, the conductor turned to us in the audience and asked us to crumple pieces of paper we were given before the work. At the end of this very dream-like piece, we were told to unfold our paper rather than clap, to a message that said “wake up” as the lights turned on. Truly surreal, please get out more and find amazing music🤩
@@briandavison4447 And stop inflating the currency so that music lovers aren't forced to give up attendance at a concert in order to have enough money to pay for food, gas, electricity, etc. Finally, it might be a good idea to stop military involvement in "endless wars" (even if it's just financing them) which often seem to have some other tacit non-military agenda - like money-laundering and influence-peddling. Just a suggestion.
I’d have to disagree with you about Chicago. I used to live there, and the CSO was destroyed by political bickering and the wounded and raging egos who were artistically responsible for it.
I agree. I moved from New York to Bay Area last year. As a lifelong pianist, unfortunately in my opinion SFO can’t compete with New York Philharmonic…..
In my final years as a subscriber and Symphony Chorus member in the late teens, ingress to and egress from the Civic Center area was getting nightmarish. Once, on a Symphony/Opera evening, I was parked on the roof of the Performing Arts Garage. By my watch, it took me 45 minutes, literally just to get out of the building.
One of the five great American orchestras? Which of the traditional "Big Five" [Boston, New York Phil, Philadelphia, Cleveland, Chicago] did this orchestra replace, and when? And what makes this orchestra "greater' than Minnesota, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, and yes LA? Specifically how do you measure levels of "greatness "?
Yeah, as great as I think SFS is, it would have been more accurate to say one of the top 10 perhaps, or typically some people now refer to a "Big 7" (the Big Five plus SF and LA) which have the highest budgets and pay. Of course by budget or by musician pay, yes, they are within the top 5 as far as I know (before the pandemic at least I think they were the highest paid or maybe 2nd highest, but those numbers leapfrog each other as each orchestra inks a new contract), but you're right, the others you named plus even Cincinnati, Detroit, Baltimore, and others, are also great orchestras (there are so many very talented music graduates that the playing level of orchestras is rising every year), and nowadays National Symphony in DC is highly paid too. One of the reasons SFS have high pay is because SF is expensive to live in.
These days, it's hard to tell a lot of orchestras apart in the U.S. The baseline of quality is very high. The main thing that differentiates orchestras from each other is consistency, I think.
@@whatafreakinusername I agree with this. There is a surplus of very talented graduates of masters/artist diploma programs from conservatories, and they have to be employed somewhere, so they're filling up even mid-level and regional orchestras with high levels of talent. There are also a lot more orchestras that have built nice-sounding symphony halls in recent decades (instead of playing in indifferent multi-purpose theaters). Sometimes you can hear the difference in very high or fast violin playing, or in consistency of the wind players, etc., but quite often they just sound great and it's not clear how much better another orchestra would be.
Salomon is all he is held up to be. I don’t know what happened to the San Francisco opera, but it’s pales in comparison to what it once was. It seems as though they’ve let the San Francisco Symphony go down the same tube.
There are many outstanding young conductors, some under thirty, who would bring so much excitement to the audiences. By the way, do SF public schools have music classes, grades 1 thru 12? That's more important than a 'superstar' conductor helming the symphony.
Until the city of SF gets its act together, there will be no major corporate and individual donors, folks will continue to stay away from the hall for fear of being mugged, and the overpaid musicians will have no jobs. The city has imploded, corporations are leaving in droves, and families are moving far away. Entire city blocks are nothing but empty buildings. It’s been two decades in the making, and even if the people running the city grew brains, it’s going to take many years or decades to reverse course. Voters brought this on themselves.
The “overpaid musicians” will just move and work at another top orchestra that will welcome them with open arms. There’s fierce competition, but there’s also a shortage of talent. They’ll easily make the same salary elsewhere.
@@drymice500 just out of curiosity I just looked up the average salary of the San Francisco Symphony musician $52,000 a year I'm truly surprised being San Francisco a city where cops can easily make $125,000 a year Plus I naturally assume that the musicians made at least a quarter million a year so unless the article I just read is faltz I am truly surprised at this low number even shocked, could someone prove this wrong ?
@@classicalperformances8777 Like a downtown area that's full of homeless & street people. It's also not a car friendly city and many symphony & opera supporters live in the East Bay, South Bay or Marin Co. and must drive to the City.
I’ve had a passion for classical music my entire life and I think it’s sad that society doesn’t have that passion anymore. People in the majority simply don’t care about Classical music. I think that’s a sign of societies decline. I really believe that, also they didn’t tell us what musicians in the San Francisco Symphony, how much money they make I’m willing to bet It’s an eye watering amount. so as with religion, this is a wondrous art form that is simply dying out in a society that doesn’t appreciate the classics as they did in the past if you don’t believe it go to a symphony or an opera and glance at the audience and what color hair do you see ? That to say where there is hair ?
Most Americans are poorly educated. My sister and her husband are classical musicians and the only place they can make a living in America is Boston because Boston has the most highly educated populace in the country.
Salonen wanted to build a major arts complex on Treasure Island. In other words, a tribute to himself. Aside from the egomaniacal factor, it would be wholly impractical. And when they told him no, he decided to take his ball and go home. Some commitment there,
I guess we’re supposed to be unburdened by Beethoven, Mozart and Mendelssohn but I enjoy the burden. I’ve enjoyed this burden for 50 years and continue to do so. I’m looking for additional burdens……………
@@respighi3 Ha! Good one! Nancy P. and Kamala and the rest of the leftists have brought it on themselves. They are more concerned with funding illegals than funding the arts. Right?
Attracting a "name" conductor should not be a priority for such a prestigious US orchestra. It helps but it is by no means the be all and end all. Indeed, there are surely many young up and coming conducting talents around the world who would fit the bill and jump at the chance - a mutually advantageous situation which could bring fresh invigorating blood to the SFSO podium and allow the orchestra the challenge and the pleasure of forming a successful partnership with someone who could gain a deserved praise- worthy reputation in a two-way artistically (and financially??) rewarding process.
Without proper funding, SF Symphony CANNOT attract an “extraordinary conductor.” Sorry. That takes money. By angering the subscriber base and regular attendfees (e.g. people like me), you can’t generate revenue. It’s taken decades for Bomstedt and MTT to build up SFS’s reputation nationally and internationally. It seems like this CEO and Board head want to revert SFS back to a regional orchestra. And that’s unfortunate and a damn shame.
In 1964, a music instructor alarmed us that symphonic orchestras were becoming extinct. They have not. We were then alarmed when 60 minutes suggested that music synthesizers would eliminate very expensive, symphonic orchestras. It's about our god, money. Classical music will always exist as long as humans love music. It may become very obscure and difficult to find such as forms like Bluegrass, Native music etc.
It’s so cliche to blame the board and leadership. Generally, few people want to pay money to go to a symphony these days. The public is speaking regarding what they want and don’t want. And San Francisco hasn’t been a world class city in a while; it is fitting that San Fran’s symphony is also falling by the way side. The city only has itself to blame, if it cares at all.
I have been a juror on the California Arts Council (1990s) and at the time I was there I remember we looked at large symphonies that were going bankrupt. Of course, San Francisco's symphony has had serious inner challenges which they have drastically failed to face for years! The Sacramento, San Diego, and other urban symphonies struggling to survive around the country had to deal with the same problem. These are all elite institutions that have failed to reach out and identify future symphony players from their own backyards, the local schools and conservatories. They are very insular cultural organizations that have lost touch with their own diverse communities. This is what keeps local empire arts organizations alive--OUTREACH AND RECRUITMENT.
So very true! I’m from the San Diego area and love attending San Diego Symphony concerts. But I have noticed there is no real effort or care to reach out to the local schools, community colleges and especially universities (UCSD, SDSU etc.) to provide real outreach and recruitment opportunities. It seems like they only want to bring in talent from elsewhere when what could really make the most impact in the local community is to be open to talent from the local community. I graduated from UCSD with a degree in music and I have not seen any real collaboration or networking occur that could provide the chance of a real opportunity for a young student to work with an organization such as this. To my knowledge, I haven’t heard of any UCSD music graduate be hired to work with the Symphony much less as a musician. If symphonies want to attract younger audiences their presence needs to be more known and available at local schools and college campuses. While I understand the difficulty and sheet take this need to be qualified for such a role in such a prestigious and exclusive institution such as the SDS,there needs to be a more welcoming and helpful reach out to their LOCAL communities. For example, I would love to see a yearly concerto composition held by the San Diego Symphony that allows local college music students to audition for a chance to perform a concerto with the Symphony at one of the many incredible venues they perform at in San Diego.
How about getting Teddy Abrams in? He is Music Director of the Louisville Orchestra and has accomplished marvelous things in the community. Abrams was once a member of the SF Youth Orchestra and is a protege of MTT. Why not a wonderfully gifted young American conductor, rather than another international star who flies only into town when (s)he has to conduct and otherwise has to appear at his (or her) other orchestras, and keep guest conducting on top of that? Abrams is young, has plenty of new ideas, and, as folks in Lousville attest, is really present in and engaged with the local community. Which is, in my opinion, what matters most if the SFS wants to continue as the top tier american ensemble it is - firmly rooted in the local community, with a committed music director who will be actually in town for extended periods of time making an impact on the people of San Francisco and the Bay Area. To put it bluntly, the SFS needs the anti-Klaus Mäkelä - who seems to collect orchestras, currently four, in Oslo, Paris, Amsterdam and Chicago (the latter two full time 2027 when contracts with the first two expire), and underperforms under the demands put onto him by the Classical Music Recording Industry Complex, saddling us with mostly mediocre and unisinteresting music making as far as the recorded evidence reveals.
Some regard Teddy as a musical genius, and he is an engaging person. The problem is that he's local--born in Berkeley and educated at the San Francisco Conservatory. Locals rarely get the respect they deserve.
I love SF symphony and I go there even if it’s an affordable seat all way up on the balcony. I don’t think I will appreciate the combination of robots and people creating music within a classical institution, there are plenty of experimental venues in the city. If the current conductor doesn’t want to accept a pay cut, it’s his choice.
Lincoln Center had Mostly Mozart concerts during the summers. There was a push to get to students with a reasonably priced ticket. They were always packed. Great, easy music the orchestra could breeze through. Everyone had fun. One does not need to wear a pince-nez every time she goes to hear the symphony!
He is undoubtedly a great conductor. However, Symphony goers in SF are conservative. They have the money. In 2023 The Lorelei Ensemble produced "Her Story" at Davies, the women's chorus using cliche moves, like aggressively walking through the audience, etc. You can't confront a paying audience with a sign at the back of the stage reading, "All Men would be tyrants if they could" (taking Adam's quote in dubious context) and expect half the audience not to reject you. People don't want to pay for being insulted. The real issue is the $ in this city is not from Liberals!
Aside from contract and wage cutting, which is terrible and short-sighted of the SFS management, this is also a conflict between what artists demand and what arts administrators need. I mean Salonen is undoubtedly one of the greatest conductors alive today, and not only has this he has a knack for innovative programming, and in this he attracts the most world-class artists. Radical visionaries demand supportive if not necessarily like-minded arts administrators. However, the conservatism of administrators will no doubt dampen any innovative music director. If these administrators had their way, it would be Brahms every week!
Wish that there was a simple solution. Finances always seem to be a focal point...as does attendance and the need to broaden that audience and attract a younger crowd as the young audience is their future. I'm fortunate to have a very fine regional orchestra here in Jacksonville. The community outreach and the broad range in programming has helped bring in folks that might otherwise not attend. We have a good mix of programming offered with a very high level of musicality.
@@classicalperformances8777 Ive been a pro symphony musician since 1983, have seen the audience drop off each year and the orch. boards strip away more and more each contract from the actual musicians in the symphony. I retired this last summer and fear for those students in music schools having full employment now in the future.
I love the SF Symphony and Esa-Pekka Salonen, but I do think his emphasis on the new and innovative is wrongheaded. Most people still attend the symphony to hear the great classics and simply tolerate the modernist pieces wedged in between the masterworks. 😎🎹
Age has nothing to do with it. Davies is one of the worst possible venues for the symphonic literature, and has been an acoustic nightmare since its opening. I heard Esa-Pekka Salonen in the Los Angeles Walt Disney Concert Hall, and there was A WORLD of difference in the sound quality. After hearing muffled, unclear SF Symphony concerts, it was like being able to actually HEAR the music for the first time. Davies Hall was a total mistake, it should be torn down and replaced with a well-designed home for a good orchestra.
@@sterlinglewis5700 This is absolutely not true. It is true that the sound in Davies Symphony Hall was not very good when it opened, but it was very substantially improved during its acoustical renovation in 1991-1992. Reviews of the renovation concluded that it had fixed the problems, but the prior reputation unfairly lingered. And the acoustics got even better over the years due to fine-tuning the exact positioning and angles of the overhead reflectors and the side curtains for different styles of music, so the sound continued to improve. I consider the sound now better than the well-reviewed Disney Hall in LA and Benaroya Hall in Seattle (which among other things has some nasty slap echoes from the side walls), and about as good as Orchestra Hall in Chicago (which is also now better than its prior and lingering reputation, having also gone through some renovations over the years). I even like it better than the legendary Boston Symphony Hall, which does have a beautiful, full, bassy reverberation, but was so murky sounding that I could barely hear the woodwinds or middle strings at all. Disney Hall was clear sounding, but fairly boring and bloodless, in my view. I think there was one brief moment in an entire concert where for about one second I actually felt any sense of visceral thrill, excitement, or envelopment, something which I feel routinely in Davies. Probably some of the best sound I've ever heard at a chamber music concert was, surprisingly, at a pre-concert chamber concert in Davies, much better than most much smaller venues with supposedly good acoustics for chamber music that I've attended concerts in.
@@sterlinglewis5700 i saw him in LA last year and it was magical. it was like the sound projected out the hall and over the ocean. in SF it barely reached me in the second tier
What is that good reason? I would love to see him come back to SF. His contract in Hamburg is up in 2025. That being said, I don’t think Nagano would want to deal with this board. What they’re doing to the musicians and chorus is horrible.
I don't know if this is the same thing, but I attended a performance of Salonen conducting Scriabin's Prometheus this season with elaborately programmed lighting and fragrance effects accompanying the music. It was unlike any concert I've been to before and was really quite wonderful.
@@michaelpdawson Cool! A concert in Odorama!! I saw a movie called Polyester with Tab Hunter like that once, but you had to scratch number cards with fragrance dots to achieve a similar effect. That cost be a more cost-saving way to do this. Come to think of it, it could be used to great effect in Operas such as Wagner's Ring Cycle also!
Lots of beatin' around the bush: what's the actual story? Did they propose cutting Salonen's salary? Did Salonen reject their programming demands? What is the real story here? Do some reporting.
The quality of a symphony orchestra is based on competition between all the orchestras based on what people recognize as quality, especially those who have an ear for quality. Experimental programming loses audiences as well as the more solid consistent traditional benefactors and fund raising becomes a problem. The San Francisco Symphony board of directors needs to get back on track with proven methods.
It sounds as though Salonen is not for more classical oriented audience as it's typical of many European (so called) classic orchestra/opera companies directors like to experiment with modern/post modern music. And that is a big gamble for any orchestra organization in order to expand on their audience attendance. I personally don't enjoy ricocheting discordant sounds of many experimental modern compositions. So it doesn't bother me if Mr. Slonen don't find this orchestra inviting to his wish as there must be interesting and as talented conductors around. At the same time the musicians are what keeps this company a world class so they must be treated with respects and financial securities.
i think hes saying that as PR. from the discussions I've had with patrons it was pretty understood that when the board had rejected his request for higher pay for the orchestral musicians he decided not to stay
Too bad I'm not a mi/billionaire to send you plenty to keep SFS going, but maybe Esa-Pekka doesn't thrill concert goers enough "too". I am a total Esa-Pekka Salonen adorer, Lise Davidsen's Strauss recording with a certain version of one of classical music world's top favourite songs being my first indelible Salonen experience. Subsequent confirmations followed well.
Probably not one of the top 5 symphony orchestras in the US. A very good orchestra, but so are New York, Chicago, Boston, Philadelphia, LA, and Cleveland.
No need to shoot the messengers. Gremlin and Spivey understand the real financials. But the two of them - with the support of the Board - need to get out there, make an effort and hire someone who understands it’s about putting on a music show that makes the audience feel. Disruption with a capital D need not apply. (Sorry, EPS). Post your progress on social media. It’s not rocket science. You need your loyal following to attend and donate more. You need new followers to want to support you. You are part of a living, breathing community with bigger struggles than yours. Why should people care? Make every effort to answer that question. PS. Be sure to drop the condescending discussion of kitchen table economics.
Lots of money in the tech industry. They don’t support the arts or culture though and that’s why funding is low for the orchestra. When it was mentioned that Salonen was inspired by tech, Im glad he is leaving ( also like the tech industry it seemed he was trying to appeal to ) …. Side note. The conductor for the original movie TRON soundtrack , Wendy Carlos with the London Symphony , was truly groundbreaking.
Oh please, the symphony building is completely awful. There are so many dead places in there. And all the good seats are $300 apiece. The symphony can't survive much longer. The SF Opera is the same.
@@2wheelz3504 One of the defects of TH-cam is that when they send you a notification of a reply to a comment you can't see what the original comment was, so I don't know what you're referring to.
The entire board of San Francisco Symphony needs to resign. They don’t understand the legacy they are responsible for maintaining. They are bean counters in the worst way. Step aside and let people with an artistic vision take over.
Oh yes, that’s such a great idea. Just who will step up with the knowledge, business sense, passion, and money? The city is dying, corporate money is going out of state, as are families. Orchestras must provide an “experience” to survive. Endowments can only last so long.
I would love to go to the SF Symphony but there is much I'd have to deal with to do it from where do I park to what do I do with my dog that I can't leave at home? What about street crime? I'm very inexperienced with this kind of concert, what is acceptable, etc. Not like your garden variety rock concert... What about community outreach? How do they showcase the Symohony around the Bay Area? They could do little mini concerts to attract people to the music hall. What kinds of educational outreach do they do? Wish them smooth sailing. Hope everything goes well for them. Hang in there. Thanks for a good report.
There is plenty of parking, I always park in the one underneath the Civic Center Plaza (the grassy area between City Hall, the Civic Auditorium, and the Library). It's only a short block from Davies. There are other garages in the area. And occasionally if you come at the right time you can even get free street parking (or used to be able to) around the plaza. They used to play regularly at Flint Center in Cupertino, and when Weill Hall opened in Rohnert Park they tried playing a couple of concerts a year there too, but I think they discontinued both. They do some outreach around San Francisco (especially to school kids), and some outdoor concerts such as at Stern Grove, Shoreline in Mountain View for 4th of July, I think maybe occasionally Frost at Stanford. Perhaps one reason they don't do more is that there are so many OTHER orchestras that play in those areas. (But, none are as good as the SFS, and few of the other concert halls will provide an experience like Davies, which you really should experience. Even if your seat is up on the balcony, I highly recommend first walking into the hall by one of the rear corner doors into the floor, or "orchestra" seating, so you can experience the view from that vantage point for the first time.) There isn't a dress code, though I would not wear shorts!!! Or a torn shirt or anything like that. But you can wear jeans or whatever, fairly casual, nobody cares. Be clean but avoid heavy perfume. Lots of people do dress up but not everyone. Unlike other concerts you can't just walk in and out during the concert, you need to be at your seat before it starts, or else you'll have to wait in the lobby, possibly until intermission (though often they may seat people between pieces if the first half has two or three separate works on it). While the sound can be surprisingly loud in loud parts (despite a complete lack of any amplification), it can also be eerily quiet in other parts, so being quiet during the music (and silencing your cell phone) are necessary. Usually there is no applause during the piece itself, even if they did something great and applause-worthy, and that mostly includes between "movements" (different sections of a larger piece), even if the music comes to a stop and there is a moment of silence in between. (You can tell from the program, there will be a title for the overall work, and some of them have sub-sections listed.) This can seem kind of awkward, but just try to remember that the piece isn't over, and one might think of the silence as being part of the music. (I think very often applause between movements would be fine and welcome and great, but it isn't the convention, though it does happen sometimes, either through unusual enthusiasm for what was just played, or through some "ignorant" audience members who don't know the "rule", then once it starts other people join in and applaud too.) If you're not familiar with classical music, a lot of it can seem overwhelming and possibly confusing at first (though some other pieces are more straightforward and easy to digest). It can be a lot more complex, with many interweaving layers and relatively less repetition compared to pop/rock/rap music. I think it's fine to go listen to the piece on streaming or YT first, to become familiar, if you feel like it. Going to the pre-concert talk can also be interesting and help "prep" you for what's to come, so you can recognize some of it when it's played. (Some pieces may be new and thus have no recording or video yet, though.) Some parts may be rousing or exciting, others may have very singable and memorable melodies, and other parts may seem slow (and occasionally even boring, though hopefully not). There is also usually quite a variation in style of different pieces on the program, which may have been written hundreds of years apart. Just go and enjoy! You won't regret it. (I can't help with what to do with your dog though, except ask a friend or neighbor to watch it!)
@@RogerFleischer-p3f Now it's much more varied! Formal attire (suit and tie) is only if you particularly want to have a formal night out! Business casual, or even jeans and a nice t-shirt, is also perfectly acceptable these days. But it's nice to make SOME attempt to dress up a bit from your normal daily attire and look nice (and smell nice, but go easy on the perfume or cologne!).
My memory of Davies Symphony Hall was of being crammed into a tiny seat in a hall with such bad acoustics the venue depends on speakers. Tickets aren’t cheap for live music and the Davies experience doesn’t help. The management duo sounds like the equally tightwad owners of the Giants and the Warriors who want to win without spending any money. The ballet btw seems to have figured out the younger audience thing though
I agree with your assessment of the board chair and management. They need an artistic vision paired with the drive to raise the funds needed for greatness, not to be befuddled and evasive budget cutters. Davies Symphony Hall has never used speakers to make up for poor sound of orchestra concerts, and my experience of comparing it to a variety of other halls is that I like its acoustics better than the well-reviewed Disney Hall in LA or Benaroya Hall in Seattle, and about the same as Orchestra Hall in Chicago. I even liked it better than the legendary Boston Symphony Hall, which did have a beautiful full, bassy reverberation, but was murky sounding to the point that I could barely hear the woodwinds or middle strings at all. (This is of course since Davies's acoustical renovation in 1992. For the decade or so before that, the sound wasn't nearly as good, but they weren't using speakers even then.) There's a speaker system for announcements, and also for any electronic instruments that might be used occasionally, but it doesn't amplify the orchestra. The microphones are all for archival recordings and radio broadcast. The seat sizes vary by price, but being crammed into small seats was never a problem for me. Even the lobby, which tends to also feel crowded, always gives the sense of a significant event that a lot of people are cramming into to attend, which I enjoy; it's energizing for me. Disney Hall seemed almost TOO efficient, like the lobbies were so expansive and efficiently designed that it felt like I was able to go from the entrance to my seat without encountering another audience member, which robbed it of the same sense of community and excitement. (The sound was also a bit sterile and distant, without the same sense of excitement or envelopment. I think there was maybe only one brief moment in the entire concert where I felt something resembling a visceral excitement in the sound, something which is quite routinely experienced in Davies.)
@@2wheelz3504 Where it always comes from: donors, which it's the job of the board, chief executive, and "development" staff to raise (often with some help from the music director). Arts organizations such as orchestras ALWAYS envision what they want to accomplish, and then go out and try to raise the funds to accomplish those goals. Big orchestras like SFS more often than not succeed at raising the necessary funds, year after year, despite pundits constantly bemoaning that classical music is dead or dying (a constant refrain for the last 50+ years). There are *24* employees in the "development" department currently, and their only job is to raise money from donors and grants. If the orchestra proposes to massively cut budgets, concerts, tours, and other activities, I suggest that they no longer need 24 employees in that department, and can also cut all their other administrative departments by at least 50%, too (starting, preferably, with the Chief Executive Officer), since they clearly won't have much left to do after all the cuts they've proposed. Currently, administrative staff employed by the SFS significantly outnumber the orchestra musicians, and I think the number may still be higher even after including the 32 union chorus members. Over the past 6 years, total money paid to musicians by the SFS has declined by 15%, while in the same time period, administrative expense has DOUBLED. Hmm, I wonder where any sane person would look to start cutting fat from this organization? (I might note that the mission of the SFS is to perform music and educate the public through musical activities. Nowhere in that mission do I see "employ a bloated administrative staff." I might furthermore note that the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra employs exactly ONE person as an administrator. The rest of the administrative, marketing, etc. work is done by the musicians themselves, likely with some help from outside vendors when needed.) The SFS endowment fund (around $326 million) is 50% larger than the NY Philharmonic's (about $221 million), and the NY Phil just signed a contract to raise base musician pay to $205,000 / year. SFS hasn't even restored musician pay to pre-pandemic levels (which were already not even close to $205,000 as far as I know) - the only major American orchestra not to do so - has proposed to cut union chorus members' per-service pay by *80%* while reducing chorus services (concerts and rehearsals) by I believe 43% (leaving them with something like $2500 / year of income, compared to the whopping $21,000 or so they make now), has proposed eliminating touring, and cuts to a variety of other initiatives as well. (Total pay to union chorus members is a little less than 1% of the budget, and only a little more than what CEO Spivey makes on his own.) Meanwhile, CEO Spivey and Board Chair Geeslin have proposed no artistic vision, and no vision for how to even maintain the SFS's current stature and activities, let alone any way to improve or expand in any way. All the've done is proposed cuts, cuts, and more cuts.
Terrible reporting! Not going to ask a hard question and follow it up? What the hell?! You have two arrogant and incompetent board members and allowed them their destructive and nonsensical rhetoric. I guess you don't care for the symphony and good reporting.
SFSO is a great orchestra, but the top 5 are the New York Phil, Chicago Symphony, LA Phil, Boston Symphony, and Philly Orchestra. SFSO may be Top 15. That’s still top tier.
To say the money is not coming in due to age is a joke. How about the fact that the money is leaving the city and the state? And I certainly agree with many of the other comments here that state that the MUSICIANS are what make any musical group great. It doesn’t matter how great a conductor is if the musicians aren’t top notch. Great musicians can work around a mediocre conductor, though. You start and end your budget planning with the musician’s budget. Period. Otherwise, just shut it down. It will never survive any other way.
It is ok to part ways with with star conductors. But the management really messed up the whole situation. They should have handled it better and worked out a smooth transition and happy exit. But now they made everyone angry, and people will stop attending concerts and donors will leave. They will end up losing more. Now they need to find the right conductor and I'd suggest finding someone local and I don't mind if we hire someone who is young. We need fresh blood and fresh new start.
Just let it go out of business, like the San Antonio and San Diego Symphonies. This is like "Mozart in the Jungle" with Bernadette Peters struggling with the budget. If the tech companies aren't interested in classical music, there's nothing wrong with that. Twitter doesn't have money to spare and they're leaving SF. There's live concerts on you-tube, like the Frankfurt Symphony that are expertly filmed and edited for you-tube. Seriously, the likely outcome is there will be a smaller budget and a shorter season, and reduced pay, like what happened in Philadelphia.
SF Symphony throws away an opportunity to be a one-of-a-kind arts organization in the US.
Indentured servitude
The lip service that the board members are giving the interviewer is total BS. What makes that orchestra great are the MUSICIANS! And cutting their salaries will mean losing them. This is very short-sided thinking on the part of the leadership. Dollar to donuts, the leadership just wants to put more money in their own pockets. These people will be known as the ones who destroyed SF Symphony
"leadership just wants to put more money in their own pockets" Is this a joke? Arts leadership barely gets paid relative to any other leadership. Musicians are very highly paid.
Welcome to the lefty blah blah b.s. zone.😅
THEY SHOULD HAVE A BAKE SALE SELL COOKIES
I agree! For me, classical music has ALWAYS been about the MUSIC first, the musicians after that and the conductor a DISTANT third! Yes, I have some favorite conductors that I really like, but in all honesty, I have NEVER really been star struck by the conductors. Call me the odd man out, but this is how I feel. And, I can live with that!
@@HelloooThere laced with weed lol
Geeslin compared having a great conductor to going on a nice vacation. When asked about SFS, Spivey talked about other orchestras or orchestras in general.
The Symphony is not in good hands.
I don't know much about the business side of this. But I am a longtime subscriber who sits in the balcony. I have been to many concerts at which the balcony has less than 50 people in it!! The orchestra is usually pretty well attended but otherwise it's very sad. There have been exceptions, like an all-Scandinavian/Russian concert that was pretty full. And they do get good soloists such as Yuja Wang. It just doesn't seem enough. So I'm not surprised there is a shortfall at least well below what might be hoped. If people aren't as interested in classical music as they used to be, it's going to hurt, even if they do get some philanthropists to help.
Gesslin and Spivey need to step down. They are on track to destroy the orchestra and its chorus. If they disagree with Salonen's artistic direction, that's fine (he is admittedly idiosyncratic, modernist, and experimental, which may or may not resonate fully with the audiences the orchestra is trying to bring in, though it seems the orchestra at least loves him, and audiences seem pretty enthusiastic too), but then they need to articulate a new artistic direction that maintains and bolsters the orchestra's world-class posture. They can't just propose endless budget cuts, like eliminating touring, soundbox, paid chorus members, failing to restore pre-covid musician pay, etc., and think that's going to lead to anything good. But that's all they've done so far, and every few months they propose cutting something else. If they were any good at the job, they'd be finding ways to generate excitement around those things to raise the funds to pay for them, instead of giving up and just cutting everything. Why run an orchestra at all then? It's an expensive money-losing venture from the beginning, in case they hadn't noticed. (But I do like the proposals for improvements to the Davies Symphony Hall lobbies and exterior, to move the entrance, add a recital hall, etc.)
Geeslin and Spivey dodged many of the questions. They come off as PR hacks, as opposed to the management of a symphony. The biggest villain are the tech companies and their employees. There’s nearly zero philanthropy from the companies, and their employees have no interest in attending the symphony.
Exactly. They dodged the questions. They seem like they’re running a small town orchestra. But yeah, the real problem is that SF has undergone a radical change in the last 25 years from artsy town to tech town. The new money of SF has no class. They’re only into their flashy gadgets, cars, and homes…not into the fine arts. Organizations like the opera and symphony are doomed.
And what was with this reporting? Why so deferential to these two arrogant and incompetent creeps?
But why are the tech companies and their employees villainy if they just aren’t into this sort of music? I asked a friend to Mahler’s 4th once and he swore never to come to one ever. 😢 There’s just no way to force ppl off Taylor Swift and make them embrace Brahms & Bruckner. 🤷♂️
@@chatbudThat's exactly what @TeaTimeWithDave meant when he said the "new money of SF has no class." And I agree with him unfortunately.
You hit the nail directly on the head. That’s the thing with the tech companies-they’re not about the same culture as the “old” money was. You’d think the new generation would be all about modern multicultural music in a town like San Francisco.
What always amazes me is that, in China, most of those who spend money on classical music including concert-going are young people
America is on the decline
Young people are getting more into classical music everywhere.
@@tcdan-c2m There is almost no classical music ed in public schools
@@lylecohen1638you are absolutely right. I see it everywhere including myself, young people have not given up on the genre at all, it’s the opposite
Tickets in SF are too damn expensive
Tickets are crazy expensive, it’s one thing if there’s big demand, but if you’re trying to convince new people (my age, genZ) to join and explore the genre, you’re going to do that with $80 tickets. Not to mention a lot of those seats just sit empty.
I love the symphony, been to em all around the world, Berlin, London, Buenos Aires, they all have young adult tickets! Not just students, 18-26 year old, less than $20. You’re not selling those seats anyways, might as well. It was way easier to convince my friends to join a show back then than it is in sf.
San Francisco s having a slow death. The city needs to go back to its origins. I loved to go to SF in the 90s until 2005. Not anymore.
Notice this report doesn’t mention what the base pay for musicians is, or what board members are paid (look it up). The general San Fran public would be horrified given the financial mess the city is currently experiencing.
I am always amazed to see empty seats in Davis Symphony Hall. Your audience is getting older (and older, and older). Why aren't you handing out unsold tickets for free tickets to high schoolers? To college students? And why aren't you playing the music that the audience wants to hear?
💯
👏
LA PHIL does 20$ tickets for ALL performances for both high school and college students and SF basically only does it for thursday matinee performances and only available to college students. its gross
But then you bore the folks who are over familiar with the war horses of classical music repertoire.
@@IvarsBezdechi so much of classical music that seems to be played is boring and pertaining to older audiences. The composers that furthered my interest in classical music weren’t Bach or Beethoven etc., though they’re some of the foundations for classical music there is so much more. Shostakovich, Ginastera, Takashi Yoshimatsu made me more interested (of course many more), but are rarely played. This is just my opinion of course, but as someone who also has played in symphonies (as a violist sorry), there’s so much more music to explore
@@Tjgtjgtjg This comment! I teach middle and high school orchestra. They love and understand the necessity of learning the classics. But there’s so much to be explored: video game, movie, neo classical/neo romantic composers, etc. I play viola/string bass in a local symphony.
Play the modern classics: excellent film scores! These are the best pieces of music being written today because that’s where composers can make a great impression on a public audience and their living. Bach wrote for the church. Mozart, Beethoven for wealthy patrons, the opera industry, Tchaikovsky for the ballet. Great composers go where the money is. Today, that’s composing soundtracks. And there is astounding talent there. Use it!
@@afriendlyfaceinthecrowd Wow! Thank you sooo much for saying that.
In the Delaware Valley of s.e. Pennsylvania, our classical station WRTI uses 5-6pm as "Flix at 5" and plays the beautifully and intelligently composed soundtracks.
M.Mus.
West Chester University
Pennsylvania
It’s a sad reality that classical music with all its beauty and sophistication cannot gain popularity in this country.
Salonen is missed opportunity
Salonen said that he missed composing and wanted to leave conducting in order to compose again.
He refuses to attend any fundraising event for SFS. Fact.
@@briandavison4447 That's called a front. Most people know what the real issue is!
I love music and have been to the symphony a handful of times. But honestly I don’t feel great about taking my family through the Civic Center at night.
Safety risk?
@@prometheusrex1 Yes, and the cost ………..
@@prometheusrex1 Correct, it doesn’t feel totally safe. I admittedly haven’t been there for a few years but in the past I’d sometimes come across erratic characters, homeless, etc. The BART/Muni station definitely set off my Spidey sense.
Totally agree. The Civic Center area is unsafe at night. You don't want to be standing there trapped while waiting for a bus and being harassed by druggies. Parking is limited and expensive, which means Uber or a taxi, which can be almost as expensive, on top of ticket cost and that's not too affordable either.
@@cloudedmind4560: You are exactly right!
You cannot allow the destruction of the city by choice then expect patrons to ignore their surroundings and support a history that is no longer present. The city governance has shown residents what they think of them and now they in turn are showing you. I would suggest packing up several huge vans and moving yourself to a city that respects your talents and its audience. The audience hasn’t left because it no longer appreciates the art … Act quickly, the patient is nearing hospice. Don’t allow its passing
I think one orchestra between LA and SF is enough. The same is probably true of the East Coast. Do Washington, Baltimore and Philadelphia need their own orchestras? Philadelphia could cover all three cities with a reduced number of concerts in each city. Distances are short between the cities, so transport would not be a big problem.
It is sad to see how unappreciated the Symphony is... at the same time, the Symphony is losing the respect by prioritizing "film with live orchestra" over the core music for symphonic group...
This is pandemic and not just SF. The only sure draw these days is the movie/track thing. Could it be the symphony ( small s ) is a 19th century artifact and its time has passed?
@@BeeMichaelOnly a minor issue in Germany, where the classical music institutions are subsidised by the state and tickets are thus more affordable. Today, all Berlin orchestras and opera houses sell similarly well to pre-pandemic times, often they sell out completely. But they didn’t cut budgets or chase away talent.
@@BeeMichael "Could it be the symphony ( small s ) is a 19th century artifact and its time has passed?"
People have been saying that for 50 years, even as professional orchestras have proliferated, expanded, improved in quality, and greatly increased their budgets and payrolls (though sometimes gone belly up). The pandemic was indeed a big hit, and while temporary assistance (and everyone sacrificing together) allowed most orchestras to weather the storm, the withdrawal of that assistance prior to audiences coming back in the same numbers as before added to the hurt. Entertainment is still not where it was before. In live pop / rock / rap music, the biggest acts are doing fine, but everyone else is suffering, and canceling shows, tours, and festivals because the numbers don't add up. It's not just classical that's affected.
I used to be shocked enough that SFS administrative staff equalled in number the orchestra members, but now staff substantially outnumber the musicians. The Berlin Philharmonic has, as far as I know, exactly ONE full-time staff member who isn't a musician of the orchestra. While it's possible the BPO might farm out some work to contractors that SFS does in house, mostly it's the musicians themselves who take on the work. SFS doesn't have to be anywhere near that extreme, but it's clear that if cutbacks are taking place, the musicians are the LAST place they should be looking to do so, instead of the first, and that administrative staff is a big fat, redundant target, and should be considered the low-hanging fruit. (I realize those people also have jobs etc., but their skills tend to be more transferable to similarly-paid jobs elsewhere in the same geographic region. There are no other similarly-paid orchestra jobs in Northern California.)
This is a little bit like the debates among Roman Catholics "We're shrinking because we don't do everything in Latin anymore"
No, I think the film scores are what even make it possible to subsidize the great classics that we classical fans actually love. Its the problem with leaving art to "market forces" instead of prioritizing beauty and culture above capitalism.
IMHO, Salonen is one of the most highly regarded, pedestrian conductors in play. I don't know why any orchestra would hire him when there are so many young, talented, energetic, intelligent conductors emerging in the symphonic world. Hebert Blomstedt brought the orchestra to world class quality. MTT maintained that, to the degree to which he was able, and its been a long, slow, gradual downward seep since then. The board needs to get some people on board who understand that they need to find the right person, male or female, to work with this fine, virtuosic group and return it to the status it deserves. If San Fran wants to be world class city, it's going to need a world class symphony orchestra. Otherwise, it will be just like all the other places no one really wants to live.
Thats shocking news. Really, really good orchestra.
I don't go to every show but when I would see them it's nearly sold out
Salonen said it himself. He wants to be an innovator. He wants to modernize the orchestra, bring in new and most importantly living composers, experiment with new music and blend it with the old rather than play the same old same old Tchaikovsky 5, Beethoven 5. To think that the all-Sibelius concert I attended recently was actually refreshing and new, and Sibelius has been gone for how many years😂 It costs only so much money, but not so much money that the endowment can’t afford, just a conservative and stingey board, standing in the way of culture. I like the orchestra, I love the conductor, but I respect him for not having the time of day for such nonsense.
SalODos cordiales desde Finlandia. Salonen s la-la Land. 2 much oh-deeing in the neighborhood, now a full orchestra ... 🇫🇮
>>>He wants to be an innovator. He wants to modernize the orchestra, bring in new and most importantly living composers, experiment with new music and blend it with the old rather than play the same old same old Tchaikovsky 5, Beethoven 5.
Pierre Boulez tried to do the same thing back in the day with NY Philharmonic after Bernstein retired. It utterly failed, but he did succeed in losing the orchestra's core audience attendance. Bravo, Maestro! He would program some new composer in between two classical-era works such as an early Haydn symphony at the start, and an early Mozart symphony at the end. Sorry, but most concertgoers actually LIKE Sibelius, Tchaikovsky, Brahms, Schumann, et al. That's what they're paying for; that's what the symphony should give them. Most concertgoers have zero interest in hearing new music by contemporary composers, probably with good reason: much of it is crap that was originally paid for via grants. Read "The Agony of Modern Music" by modern music critic Henry Pleasants for the sordid details. If I want to look at modern paintings, I'll go to the Whitney; if I want to look at Vermeer and Renoir, I'll go to the Frick. I don't want a curator interspersing "abstract" paintings in between the Dutch Masters and the French Impressionists in order to "teach me something" and "make me more cultured." If I wanted that, I'd attend some lectures. While you're at it, read "Who Killed Classical Music" and "The Maestro Myth" for insights into the corporate-PR side of the classical music "biz." It's very enlightening in a disturbing sort of way.
@@economicfreedom8591 Hey, you quoted my entire comment, good job😂 Now, as for those books, I’ll look into them, and maybe you as well, since I have found that it’s honestly a 50/50 chance that someone has actually read the books when someone says “read this” as proof of their obviously immense knowledge and insight😉 Look, I’m actually in a (small) orchestra and I perform (small) concerts as a soloist. I also engage in fundraising campaigns with some donor friends for my local philharmonic society. Are we on this level as the SF symphony? No where near, but we try, and the results are shocking. The truth is that our audience population is getting old, very old. They may buy tickets day in and day out, but when you ask me what concerts they go to the most, the results are interesting. It’s the concerts with the old favorites, exactly as you said! But these concerts absolutely pale in comparison, attendance-wise, to when we put on something new. And by something new, I don’t just mean living composers. I mean concerts of older music that you don’t often see, like an entire concert devoted to Mahler’s Resurrection Symphony, or the full performance of Bach’s Goldberg Variations, or Itzhak Perlman coming and giving to us one of his home-video concerts that have been proving ever-so-popular in other cities. Ever seen Mussorgsky’s Pictures paired with video displays by students from USC? Tried that, I didn’t like it, but the turn out was great! And the turn out? So many young people! We even worked with local schools to get their kids in!!! The current (old) population may like the old favorites, but they can’t be trusted to sustain anything anymore. They will be gone eventually, we all will🤷🏻♂️ Classical music has to be made fun and fresh, and that means new music, interesting finds from the old, and the old favorites all muddled together into a truly refreshing, but cohesive experience. Also, I don’t know what modern music you have found yourself listening to, but there is an incredible wealth of talented young composers out there. I was at UCSD just a few months ago to attend a world premiere of a peace that the college orchestra commissioned from one of their alumni composers. It was entirely in a pianissimo dynamic, and only random C-major chords. At various points, the conductor turned to us in the audience and asked us to crumple pieces of paper we were given before the work. At the end of this very dream-like piece, we were told to unfold our paper rather than clap, to a message that said “wake up” as the lights turned on. Truly surreal, please get out more and find amazing music🤩
Perhaps stopping giving money to third world countries and keep it in our own countries might help classical music in The West (Europe and N America).
@@briandavison4447
And stop inflating the currency so that music lovers aren't forced to give up attendance at a concert in order to have enough money to pay for food, gas, electricity, etc. Finally, it might be a good idea to stop military involvement in "endless wars" (even if it's just financing them) which often seem to have some other tacit non-military agenda - like money-laundering and influence-peddling. Just a suggestion.
The symphony needs to love what they are doing the joy is what makes the orchestra Great. That and outreach.
Downtown SF, especially that area, is in bad shape.
I wouldn't put San Francisco in the top 5....😊. They are NY, Phil., Cleve., L.A., Chicago.
SFO is tier 2 along with Seattle, St. Louis, Milwaukee etc.
Agreed 😂 I live here and I don’t think sf is in the top 5 within the US.
I’d have to disagree with you about Chicago. I used to live there, and the CSO was destroyed by political bickering and the wounded and raging egos who were artistically responsible for it.
Chicago used to be elite, but it's no where near top 5 now. Pittsburgh has certainly ascended to top 5 status
@@TRH2243 I am forced to agree.
I agree. I moved from New York to Bay Area last year. As a lifelong pianist, unfortunately in my opinion SFO can’t compete with New York Philharmonic…..
In my final years as a subscriber and Symphony Chorus member in the late teens, ingress to and egress from the Civic Center area was getting nightmarish.
Once, on a Symphony/Opera evening, I was parked on the roof of the Performing Arts Garage.
By my watch, it took me 45 minutes, literally just to get out of the building.
I’m a long time subscriber, and I’ve had the same experience. Getting out takes forever.
The San Francisco Symphony is one of the most wonderful orchestras, The Lord will certainly help. 🎼🙏
Why should he?
One of the five great American orchestras? Which of the traditional "Big Five" [Boston, New York Phil, Philadelphia, Cleveland, Chicago] did this orchestra replace, and when? And what makes this orchestra "greater' than Minnesota, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, and yes LA? Specifically how do you measure levels of "greatness "?
Yeah, as great as I think SFS is, it would have been more accurate to say one of the top 10 perhaps, or typically some people now refer to a "Big 7" (the Big Five plus SF and LA) which have the highest budgets and pay. Of course by budget or by musician pay, yes, they are within the top 5 as far as I know (before the pandemic at least I think they were the highest paid or maybe 2nd highest, but those numbers leapfrog each other as each orchestra inks a new contract), but you're right, the others you named plus even Cincinnati, Detroit, Baltimore, and others, are also great orchestras (there are so many very talented music graduates that the playing level of orchestras is rising every year), and nowadays National Symphony in DC is highly paid too. One of the reasons SFS have high pay is because SF is expensive to live in.
These days, it's hard to tell a lot of orchestras apart in the U.S. The baseline of quality is very high. The main thing that differentiates orchestras from each other is consistency, I think.
@@whatafreakinusername I agree with this. There is a surplus of very talented graduates of masters/artist diploma programs from conservatories, and they have to be employed somewhere, so they're filling up even mid-level and regional orchestras with high levels of talent. There are also a lot more orchestras that have built nice-sounding symphony halls in recent decades (instead of playing in indifferent multi-purpose theaters). Sometimes you can hear the difference in very high or fast violin playing, or in consistency of the wind players, etc., but quite often they just sound great and it's not clear how much better another orchestra would be.
@whatadamnusername: The repertoire is important, too.
If the Big Ten conference is up to God only knows how many schools by now, just make the Big Five a bigger number.
Salomon is all he is held up to be. I don’t know what happened to the San Francisco opera, but it’s pales in comparison to what it once was. It seems as though they’ve let the San Francisco Symphony go down the same tube.
There are many outstanding young conductors, some under thirty, who would bring so much excitement to the audiences. By the way, do SF public schools have music classes, grades 1 thru 12? That's more important than a 'superstar' conductor helming the symphony.
Nice job attaching that mic so the necklace rubbed on it.
Until the city of SF gets its act together, there will be no major corporate and individual donors, folks will continue to stay away from the hall for fear of being mugged, and the overpaid musicians will have no jobs. The city has imploded, corporations are leaving in droves, and families are moving far away. Entire city blocks are nothing but empty buildings. It’s been two decades in the making, and even if the people running the city grew brains, it’s going to take many years or decades to reverse course. Voters brought this on themselves.
Like a Japanese haiku, you stated everything That needs to be said in a few lines
100% on target! Any other analysis is pure CROCK
The “overpaid musicians” will just move and work at another top orchestra that will welcome them with open arms. There’s fierce competition, but there’s also a shortage of talent. They’ll easily make the same salary elsewhere.
@@drymice500 just out of curiosity I just looked up the average salary of the San Francisco Symphony musician $52,000 a year I'm truly surprised being San Francisco a city where cops can easily make $125,000 a year Plus I naturally assume that the musicians made at least a quarter million a year so unless the article I just read is faltz I am truly surprised at this low number even shocked, could someone prove this wrong ?
Modern liberalism chasing its own tail?
Seems like everything in San Francisco is facing challenges!!!!
Exactly! THAT’S the bigger problem they refuse to address. Until that time, expect more of the same and worse
Like what?curious as an outsider
@@classicalperformances8777 Like a downtown area that's full of homeless & street people. It's also not a car friendly city and many symphony & opera supporters live in the East Bay, South Bay or Marin Co. and must drive to the City.
I’ve had a passion for classical music my entire life and I think it’s sad that society doesn’t have that passion anymore. People in the majority simply don’t care about Classical music. I think that’s a sign of societies decline. I really believe that, also they didn’t tell us what musicians in the San Francisco Symphony, how much money they make I’m willing to bet It’s an eye watering amount. so as with religion, this is a wondrous art form that is simply dying out in a society that doesn’t appreciate the classics as they did in the past if you don’t believe it go to a symphony or an opera and glance at the audience and what color hair do you see ? That to say where there is hair ?
Most Americans are poorly educated. My sister and her husband are classical musicians and the only place they can make a living in America is Boston because Boston has the most highly educated populace in the country.
indeed, is there hair here?
Salonen wanted to build a major arts complex on Treasure Island. In other words, a tribute to himself. Aside from the egomaniacal factor, it would be wholly impractical. And when they told him no, he decided to take his ball and go home. Some commitment there,
On top of that, he’s not interested in fundraising unfortunately. Doesn’t work in this modern society…
Hmm...All adds up to "being unburdened by what has been"---right?
I guess we’re supposed to be unburdened by Beethoven, Mozart and Mendelssohn but I enjoy the burden. I’ve enjoyed this burden for 50 years and continue to do so. I’m looking for additional burdens……………
@@respighi3 Ha! Good one! Nancy P. and Kamala and the rest of the leftists have brought it on themselves. They are more concerned with funding illegals than funding the arts. Right?
Attracting a "name" conductor should not be a priority for such a prestigious US orchestra.
It helps but it is by no means the be all and end all. Indeed, there are surely many young
up and coming conducting talents around the world who would fit the bill and jump at
the chance - a mutually advantageous situation which could bring fresh invigorating
blood to the SFSO podium and allow the orchestra the challenge and the pleasure of
forming a successful partnership with someone who could gain a deserved praise-
worthy reputation in a two-way artistically (and financially??) rewarding process.
Without proper funding, SF Symphony CANNOT attract an “extraordinary conductor.” Sorry. That takes money.
By angering the subscriber base and regular attendfees (e.g. people like me), you can’t generate revenue.
It’s taken decades for Bomstedt and MTT to build up SFS’s reputation nationally and internationally. It seems like this CEO and Board head want to revert SFS back to a regional orchestra. And that’s unfortunate and a damn shame.
Yiu mean a celebrity conductor. Extraordinary conductors are few and none of them famous. And for reasons so dumb I would even dare tell in public
This is a small concern in comparison to the rest of San Francisco’s problems.
Correction: SFS was never a "Top 5" U.S. orchestra. They are NY, Boston, Chicago, Cleveland and Philadelphia.
In 1964, a music instructor alarmed us that symphonic orchestras were becoming extinct. They have not. We were then alarmed when 60 minutes suggested that music synthesizers would eliminate very expensive, symphonic orchestras. It's about our god, money. Classical music will always exist as long as humans love music. It may become very obscure and difficult to find such as forms like Bluegrass, Native music etc.
It’s so cliche to blame the board and leadership. Generally, few people want to pay money to go to a symphony these days. The public is speaking regarding what they want and don’t want. And San Francisco hasn’t been a world class city in a while; it is fitting that San Fran’s symphony is also falling by the way side. The city only has itself to blame, if it cares at all.
I think this is a management issue. New York still had excellent performances during the worst of their bleak and broke ‘70s.
I have been a juror on the California Arts Council (1990s) and at the time I was there I remember we looked at large symphonies that were going bankrupt. Of course, San Francisco's symphony has had serious inner challenges which they have drastically failed to face for years! The Sacramento, San Diego, and other urban symphonies struggling to survive around the country had to deal with the same problem. These are all elite institutions that have failed to reach out and identify future symphony players from their own backyards, the local schools and conservatories. They are very insular cultural organizations that have lost touch with their own diverse communities. This is what keeps local empire arts organizations alive--OUTREACH AND RECRUITMENT.
Yes!!!
So very true! I’m from the San Diego area and love attending San Diego Symphony concerts. But I have noticed there is no real effort or care to reach out to the local schools, community colleges and especially universities (UCSD, SDSU etc.) to provide real outreach and recruitment opportunities. It seems like they only want to bring in talent from elsewhere when what could really make the most impact in the local community is to be open to talent from the local community. I graduated from UCSD with a degree in music and I have not seen any real collaboration or networking occur that could provide the chance of a real opportunity for a young student to work with an organization such as this. To my knowledge, I haven’t heard of any UCSD music graduate be hired to work with the Symphony much less as a musician. If symphonies want to attract younger audiences their presence needs to be more known and available at local schools and college campuses. While I understand the difficulty and sheet take this need to be qualified for such a role in such a prestigious and exclusive institution such as the SDS,there needs to be a more welcoming and helpful reach out to their LOCAL communities. For example, I would love to see a yearly concerto composition held by the San Diego Symphony that allows local college music students to audition for a chance to perform a concerto with the Symphony at one of the many incredible venues they perform at in San Diego.
How about getting Teddy Abrams in? He is Music Director of the Louisville Orchestra and has accomplished marvelous things in the community. Abrams was once a member of the SF Youth Orchestra and is a protege of MTT. Why not a wonderfully gifted young American conductor, rather than another international star who flies only into town when (s)he has to conduct and otherwise has to appear at his (or her) other orchestras, and keep guest conducting on top of that?
Abrams is young, has plenty of new ideas, and, as folks in Lousville attest, is really present in and engaged with the local community. Which is, in my opinion, what matters most if the SFS wants to continue as the top tier american ensemble it is - firmly rooted in the local community, with a committed music director who will be actually in town for extended periods of time making an impact on the people of San Francisco and the Bay Area.
To put it bluntly, the SFS needs the anti-Klaus Mäkelä - who seems to collect orchestras, currently four, in Oslo, Paris, Amsterdam and Chicago (the latter two full time 2027 when contracts with the first two expire), and underperforms under the demands put onto him by the Classical Music Recording Industry Complex, saddling us with mostly mediocre and unisinteresting music making as far as the recorded evidence reveals.
Teddy is a great clarinetist! I saw him play chamber music near Seattle long before he became a conductor.
Some regard Teddy as a musical genius, and he is an engaging person. The problem is that he's local--born in Berkeley and educated at the San Francisco Conservatory. Locals rarely get the respect they deserve.
Who says they're one of the five best?
I love SF symphony and I go there even if it’s an affordable seat all way up on the balcony. I don’t think I will appreciate the combination of robots and people creating music within a classical institution, there are plenty of experimental venues in the city. If the current conductor doesn’t want to accept a pay cut, it’s his choice.
I was sad to find out that Esa was leaving SF symphony.
Lincoln Center had Mostly Mozart concerts during the summers. There was a push to get to students with a reasonably priced ticket. They were always packed. Great, easy music the orchestra could breeze through. Everyone had fun. One does not need to wear a pince-nez every time she goes to hear the symphony!
He is undoubtedly a great conductor. However, Symphony goers in SF are conservative. They have the money. In 2023 The Lorelei Ensemble produced "Her Story" at Davies, the women's chorus using cliche moves, like aggressively walking through the audience, etc. You can't confront a paying audience with a sign at the back of the stage reading, "All Men would be tyrants if they could" (taking Adam's quote in dubious context) and expect half the audience not to reject you. People don't want to pay for being insulted. The real issue is the $ in this city is not from Liberals!
Aside from contract and wage cutting, which is terrible and short-sighted of the SFS management, this is also a conflict between what artists demand and what arts administrators need. I mean Salonen is undoubtedly one of the greatest conductors alive today, and not only has this he has a knack for innovative programming, and in this he attracts the most world-class artists. Radical visionaries demand supportive if not necessarily like-minded arts administrators. However, the conservatism of administrators will no doubt dampen any innovative music director. If these administrators had their way, it would be Brahms every week!
Wish that there was a simple solution. Finances always seem to be a focal point...as does attendance and the need to broaden that audience and attract a younger crowd as the young audience is their future. I'm fortunate to have a very fine regional orchestra here in Jacksonville. The community outreach and the broad range in programming has helped bring in folks that might otherwise not attend. We have a good mix of programming offered with a very high level of musicality.
I was very surprised to learn my former high school honey actually manages this orchestra.
Classical music is DYING on the vine.......so glad I'm just retired now.
I would hate to be young starting my career now...
I am still young and curious as to what you mean😊
@@classicalperformances8777 Ive been a pro symphony musician since 1983, have seen the audience drop off each year and the orch. boards strip away more and more each contract from the actual musicians in the symphony. I retired this last summer and fear for those students in music schools having full employment now in the future.
I love the SF Symphony and Esa-Pekka Salonen, but I do think his emphasis on the new and innovative is wrongheaded.
Most people still attend the symphony to hear the great classics and simply tolerate the modernist pieces wedged in between the masterworks.
😎🎹
After decades of making and listening to music, I’ve come to the conclusion that the true joy of music lies in repeated notes and trills.
Similar situation, I recently started thinking melodies in movies are an unnecessary complication and a distraction from the story.
@@CharlesLangSamuel Well, it worked in "Dr. Zhivago" lol...
Lesson learned: play great music and draw an audience. Experiment on the public and lose.
He wants a new building! We cannot afford it! Our current Symphony Hall is not old!
Age has nothing to do with it. Davies is one of the worst possible venues for the symphonic literature, and has been an acoustic nightmare since its opening. I heard Esa-Pekka Salonen in the Los Angeles Walt Disney Concert Hall, and there was A WORLD of difference in the sound quality. After hearing muffled, unclear SF Symphony concerts, it was like being able to actually HEAR the music for the first time. Davies Hall was a total mistake, it should be torn down and replaced with a well-designed home for a good orchestra.
@@sterlinglewis5700 This is absolutely not true. It is true that the sound in Davies Symphony Hall was not very good when it opened, but it was very substantially improved during its acoustical renovation in 1991-1992. Reviews of the renovation concluded that it had fixed the problems, but the prior reputation unfairly lingered. And the acoustics got even better over the years due to fine-tuning the exact positioning and angles of the overhead reflectors and the side curtains for different styles of music, so the sound continued to improve. I consider the sound now better than the well-reviewed Disney Hall in LA and Benaroya Hall in Seattle (which among other things has some nasty slap echoes from the side walls), and about as good as Orchestra Hall in Chicago (which is also now better than its prior and lingering reputation, having also gone through some renovations over the years). I even like it better than the legendary Boston Symphony Hall, which does have a beautiful, full, bassy reverberation, but was so murky sounding that I could barely hear the woodwinds or middle strings at all. Disney Hall was clear sounding, but fairly boring and bloodless, in my view. I think there was one brief moment in an entire concert where for about one second I actually felt any sense of visceral thrill, excitement, or envelopment, something which I feel routinely in Davies. Probably some of the best sound I've ever heard at a chamber music concert was, surprisingly, at a pre-concert chamber concert in Davies, much better than most much smaller venues with supposedly good acoustics for chamber music that I've attended concerts in.
@@sterlinglewis5700 Agree 100%. Davies is horrible. I make the trek to L.A. for my symphony fix.
@@sterlinglewis5700 i saw him in LA last year and it was magical. it was like the sound projected out the hall and over the ocean. in SF it barely reached me in the second tier
@@alfdlgnaat Yes. The classic 'shoe-box' concert hall, wood-lined, remains the acoustic best.
Challenging “moment”? It’s more than a “moment.” These challenges, especially financial, have been developing for years.
The legacy of MTTs tenure as Chief conductor of the San Francisco Symphony will live on forever no matter who is appointed as his replacement
The music first. The musicians next. And, then, finally the conductor.
It s the other way around but...yeah..
"Doom spiral," anyone?
Sketchy civic decisions and mismanagement have long-term consequences.
When you've got to develop a young new audience to survive, that's when you can't afford NOT to risk spending (in this case keeping Salonen).
Tell them to hire Kent Nagano... a local favorite.
Never going to happen.
Nagano is not even on the radar. For good reason.
What is that good reason? I would love to see him come back to SF. His contract in Hamburg is up in 2025. That being said, I don’t think Nagano would want to deal with this board. What they’re doing to the musicians and chorus is horrible.
@geezeressa Kent Nagano is qualified, but politics aren't in his favor.
@@geezeressaPolitics
Funny. I know it to be the other way around@@RobertConklin-m5u
Major Scale, was that a music pun? 😂
HAPPY NEW YEARS
Robotics? Oh come now. This sounds ridiculous.
True. Doesn't sound promising.
I don't know if this is the same thing, but I attended a performance of Salonen conducting Scriabin's Prometheus this season with elaborately programmed lighting and fragrance effects accompanying the music. It was unlike any concert I've been to before and was really quite wonderful.
@@michaelpdawson Cool! A concert in Odorama!! I saw a movie called Polyester with Tab Hunter like that once, but you had to scratch number cards with fragrance dots to achieve a similar effect. That cost be a more cost-saving way to do this. Come to think of it, it could be used to great effect in Operas such as Wagner's Ring Cycle also!
Terima kasih video
Excellent reporting!
That intro zoom makes them look like a model
Lots of beatin' around the bush: what's the actual story? Did they propose cutting Salonen's salary? Did Salonen reject their programming demands? What is the real story here? Do some reporting.
Logically and simply I suspect yes all of the above
The quality of a symphony orchestra is based on competition between all the orchestras based on what people recognize as quality, especially those who have an ear for quality. Experimental programming loses audiences as well as the more solid consistent traditional benefactors and fund raising becomes a problem. The San Francisco Symphony board of directors needs to get back on track with proven methods.
I have been spending my money getting good records and improving my audio system, instead of worrying about walking near the Civic Center.
So?
Listening at home is an entirely different experience than being at a live concert.
@@PDogB Exactly !
@@PDogB you’re right. We get Birgit Nilsson at home.
San Francisco itself is dying. As the city goes, so goes its orchestra.
It sounds as though Salonen is not for more classical oriented audience as it's typical
of many European (so called) classic orchestra/opera companies directors like to
experiment with modern/post modern music. And that is a big gamble for any orchestra organization in order to expand on their audience attendance.
I personally don't enjoy ricocheting discordant sounds of many experimental modern
compositions. So it doesn't bother me if Mr. Slonen don't find this orchestra inviting
to his wish as there must be interesting and as talented conductors around.
At the same time the musicians are what keeps this company a world class so they
must be treated with respects and financial securities.
i think hes saying that as PR. from the discussions I've had with patrons it was pretty understood that when the board had rejected his request for higher pay for the orchestral musicians he decided not to stay
Because people don’t appreciate the arts. Modern distractions have taken attention away from such talent
Too bad I'm not a mi/billionaire to send you plenty to keep SFS going, but maybe Esa-Pekka
doesn't thrill concert goers enough "too". I am a total Esa-Pekka Salonen adorer, Lise Davidsen's Strauss recording with a certain version of one of classical music world's top favourite songs being my first indelible Salonen experience. Subsequent confirmations followed well.
Doesn't help that downtown SF is a zombie apocalypse.
Probably not one of the top 5 symphony orchestras in the US. A very good orchestra, but so are New York, Chicago, Boston, Philadelphia, LA, and Cleveland.
They have 300 million in endowment . And proposed a renovation ? Administrators are crazy
the concert hall is really dilapidated tbh
Maybe the can snatch up Gustavo Dudamel before he begins his contract with the New York Philharmonic in 2026.
Absolutely after all he is rhe only conductor out there and I heard he was looking to downsize his salary😂
No need to shoot the messengers. Gremlin and Spivey understand the real financials. But the two of them - with the support of the Board - need to get out there, make an effort and hire someone who understands it’s about putting on a music show that makes the audience feel. Disruption with a capital D need not apply. (Sorry, EPS). Post your progress on social media. It’s not rocket science. You need your loyal following to attend and donate more. You need new followers to want to support you. You are part of a living, breathing community with bigger struggles than yours. Why should people care? Make every effort to answer that question.
PS. Be sure to drop the condescending discussion of kitchen table economics.
This is sad. Maybe Salonen can return to LA Phil when Dudamel leaves in 2026.
Yeah. That’d be great.
Indeed. At least as a temporary "interim" conductor before they find a younger mainstay.
Only thing is, would HE want to return to LA?
Lots of money in the tech industry. They don’t support the arts or culture though and that’s why funding is low for the orchestra. When it was mentioned that Salonen was inspired by tech, Im glad he is leaving ( also like the tech industry it seemed he was trying to appeal to ) …. Side note. The conductor for the original movie TRON soundtrack , Wendy Carlos with the London Symphony , was truly groundbreaking.
Oh please, the symphony building is completely awful. There are so many dead places in there. And all the good seats are $300 apiece. The symphony can't survive much longer. The SF Opera is the same.
It's an ugly hall, outside and inside. But the real issue is the public's lack of interest in the music
@@randall8379 Correct, and why is that?
@@2wheelz3504 One of the defects of TH-cam is that when they send you a notification of a reply to a comment you can't see what the original comment was, so I don't know what you're referring to.
The entire board of San Francisco Symphony needs to resign. They don’t understand the legacy they are responsible for maintaining. They are bean counters in the worst way. Step aside and let people with an artistic vision take over.
Oh yes, that’s such a great idea. Just who will step up with the knowledge, business sense, passion, and money? The city is dying, corporate money is going out of state, as are families. Orchestras must provide an “experience” to survive. Endowments can only last so long.
Nothing extraordinary will stand with the failing of San Francisco. Sad.
Incredible video!✨
Unbelievable❤
I would love to go to the SF Symphony but there is much I'd have to deal with to do it from where do I park to what do I do with my dog that I can't leave at home? What about street crime? I'm very inexperienced with this kind of concert, what is acceptable, etc. Not like your garden variety rock concert...
What about community outreach? How do they showcase the Symohony around the Bay Area? They could do little mini concerts to attract people to the music hall. What kinds of educational outreach do they do? Wish them smooth sailing. Hope everything goes well for them. Hang in there.
Thanks for a good report.
There is plenty of parking, I always park in the one underneath the Civic Center Plaza (the grassy area between City Hall, the Civic Auditorium, and the Library). It's only a short block from Davies. There are other garages in the area. And occasionally if you come at the right time you can even get free street parking (or used to be able to) around the plaza.
They used to play regularly at Flint Center in Cupertino, and when Weill Hall opened in Rohnert Park they tried playing a couple of concerts a year there too, but I think they discontinued both. They do some outreach around San Francisco (especially to school kids), and some outdoor concerts such as at Stern Grove, Shoreline in Mountain View for 4th of July, I think maybe occasionally Frost at Stanford. Perhaps one reason they don't do more is that there are so many OTHER orchestras that play in those areas. (But, none are as good as the SFS, and few of the other concert halls will provide an experience like Davies, which you really should experience. Even if your seat is up on the balcony, I highly recommend first walking into the hall by one of the rear corner doors into the floor, or "orchestra" seating, so you can experience the view from that vantage point for the first time.)
There isn't a dress code, though I would not wear shorts!!! Or a torn shirt or anything like that. But you can wear jeans or whatever, fairly casual, nobody cares. Be clean but avoid heavy perfume. Lots of people do dress up but not everyone. Unlike other concerts you can't just walk in and out during the concert, you need to be at your seat before it starts, or else you'll have to wait in the lobby, possibly until intermission (though often they may seat people between pieces if the first half has two or three separate works on it). While the sound can be surprisingly loud in loud parts (despite a complete lack of any amplification), it can also be eerily quiet in other parts, so being quiet during the music (and silencing your cell phone) are necessary. Usually there is no applause during the piece itself, even if they did something great and applause-worthy, and that mostly includes between "movements" (different sections of a larger piece), even if the music comes to a stop and there is a moment of silence in between. (You can tell from the program, there will be a title for the overall work, and some of them have sub-sections listed.) This can seem kind of awkward, but just try to remember that the piece isn't over, and one might think of the silence as being part of the music. (I think very often applause between movements would be fine and welcome and great, but it isn't the convention, though it does happen sometimes, either through unusual enthusiasm for what was just played, or through some "ignorant" audience members who don't know the "rule", then once it starts other people join in and applaud too.)
If you're not familiar with classical music, a lot of it can seem overwhelming and possibly confusing at first (though some other pieces are more straightforward and easy to digest). It can be a lot more complex, with many interweaving layers and relatively less repetition compared to pop/rock/rap music. I think it's fine to go listen to the piece on streaming or YT first, to become familiar, if you feel like it. Going to the pre-concert talk can also be interesting and help "prep" you for what's to come, so you can recognize some of it when it's played. (Some pieces may be new and thus have no recording or video yet, though.) Some parts may be rousing or exciting, others may have very singable and memorable melodies, and other parts may seem slow (and occasionally even boring, though hopefully not). There is also usually quite a variation in style of different pieces on the program, which may have been written hundreds of years apart.
Just go and enjoy! You won't regret it. (I can't help with what to do with your dog though, except ask a friend or neighbor to watch it!)
I don't know what they do now, but, back in the day, all you needed was any kind of suit and tie.
@@RogerFleischer-p3f Now it's much more varied! Formal attire (suit and tie) is only if you particularly want to have a formal night out! Business casual, or even jeans and a nice t-shirt, is also perfectly acceptable these days. But it's nice to make SOME attempt to dress up a bit from your normal daily attire and look nice (and smell nice, but go easy on the perfume or cologne!).
My memory of Davies Symphony Hall was of being crammed into a tiny seat in a hall with such bad acoustics the venue depends on speakers. Tickets aren’t cheap for live music and the Davies experience doesn’t help.
The management duo sounds like the equally tightwad owners of the Giants and the Warriors who want to win without spending any money.
The ballet btw seems to have figured out the younger audience thing though
I agree with your assessment of the board chair and management. They need an artistic vision paired with the drive to raise the funds needed for greatness, not to be befuddled and evasive budget cutters.
Davies Symphony Hall has never used speakers to make up for poor sound of orchestra concerts, and my experience of comparing it to a variety of other halls is that I like its acoustics better than the well-reviewed Disney Hall in LA or Benaroya Hall in Seattle, and about the same as Orchestra Hall in Chicago. I even liked it better than the legendary Boston Symphony Hall, which did have a beautiful full, bassy reverberation, but was murky sounding to the point that I could barely hear the woodwinds or middle strings at all. (This is of course since Davies's acoustical renovation in 1992. For the decade or so before that, the sound wasn't nearly as good, but they weren't using speakers even then.) There's a speaker system for announcements, and also for any electronic instruments that might be used occasionally, but it doesn't amplify the orchestra. The microphones are all for archival recordings and radio broadcast.
The seat sizes vary by price, but being crammed into small seats was never a problem for me. Even the lobby, which tends to also feel crowded, always gives the sense of a significant event that a lot of people are cramming into to attend, which I enjoy; it's energizing for me. Disney Hall seemed almost TOO efficient, like the lobbies were so expansive and efficiently designed that it felt like I was able to go from the entrance to my seat without encountering another audience member, which robbed it of the same sense of community and excitement. (The sound was also a bit sterile and distant, without the same sense of excitement or envelopment. I think there was maybe only one brief moment in the entire concert where I felt something resembling a visceral excitement in the sound, something which is quite routinely experienced in Davies.)
And where, pray tell, will that money come from?
@@2wheelz3504 Where it always comes from: donors, which it's the job of the board, chief executive, and "development" staff to raise (often with some help from the music director). Arts organizations such as orchestras ALWAYS envision what they want to accomplish, and then go out and try to raise the funds to accomplish those goals. Big orchestras like SFS more often than not succeed at raising the necessary funds, year after year, despite pundits constantly bemoaning that classical music is dead or dying (a constant refrain for the last 50+ years). There are *24* employees in the "development" department currently, and their only job is to raise money from donors and grants. If the orchestra proposes to massively cut budgets, concerts, tours, and other activities, I suggest that they no longer need 24 employees in that department, and can also cut all their other administrative departments by at least 50%, too (starting, preferably, with the Chief Executive Officer), since they clearly won't have much left to do after all the cuts they've proposed.
Currently, administrative staff employed by the SFS significantly outnumber the orchestra musicians, and I think the number may still be higher even after including the 32 union chorus members. Over the past 6 years, total money paid to musicians by the SFS has declined by 15%, while in the same time period, administrative expense has DOUBLED. Hmm, I wonder where any sane person would look to start cutting fat from this organization? (I might note that the mission of the SFS is to perform music and educate the public through musical activities. Nowhere in that mission do I see "employ a bloated administrative staff." I might furthermore note that the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra employs exactly ONE person as an administrator. The rest of the administrative, marketing, etc. work is done by the musicians themselves, likely with some help from outside vendors when needed.)
The SFS endowment fund (around $326 million) is 50% larger than the NY Philharmonic's (about $221 million), and the NY Phil just signed a contract to raise base musician pay to $205,000 / year. SFS hasn't even restored musician pay to pre-pandemic levels (which were already not even close to $205,000 as far as I know) - the only major American orchestra not to do so - has proposed to cut union chorus members' per-service pay by *80%* while reducing chorus services (concerts and rehearsals) by I believe 43% (leaving them with something like $2500 / year of income, compared to the whopping $21,000 or so they make now), has proposed eliminating touring, and cuts to a variety of other initiatives as well. (Total pay to union chorus members is a little less than 1% of the budget, and only a little more than what CEO Spivey makes on his own.) Meanwhile, CEO Spivey and Board Chair Geeslin have proposed no artistic vision, and no vision for how to even maintain the SFS's current stature and activities, let alone any way to improve or expand in any way. All the've done is proposed cuts, cuts, and more cuts.
Terrible reporting! Not going to ask a hard question and follow it up? What the hell?! You have two arrogant and incompetent board members and allowed them their destructive and nonsensical rhetoric.
I guess you don't care for the symphony and good reporting.
Sooooo all the rich folks out there can’t fix this issue!?
SFSO is a great orchestra, but the top 5 are the New York Phil, Chicago Symphony, LA Phil, Boston Symphony, and Philly Orchestra. SFSO may be Top 15. That’s still top tier.
The Cleveland Orchestra is at or near the top of that list.
@@brichpmr For The Land!
To say the money is not coming in due to age is a joke. How about the fact that the money is leaving the city and the state? And I certainly agree with many of the other comments here that state that the MUSICIANS are what make any musical group great. It doesn’t matter how great a conductor is if the musicians aren’t top notch. Great musicians can work around a mediocre conductor, though. You start and end your budget planning with the musician’s budget. Period. Otherwise, just shut it down. It will never survive any other way.
You want you want you want. Is that all you want?
It is ok to part ways with with star conductors. But the management really messed up the whole situation. They should have handled it better and worked out a smooth transition and happy exit. But now they made everyone angry, and people will stop attending concerts and donors will leave. They will end up losing more. Now they need to find the right conductor and I'd suggest finding someone local and I don't mind if we hire someone who is young. We need fresh blood and fresh new start.
1000% phoney to talk about "challenges" when the world is full PROBLEMS. Greetings from Salonen s land 🇫🇮
Just let it go out of business, like the San Antonio and San Diego Symphonies. This is like "Mozart in the Jungle" with Bernadette Peters struggling with the budget. If the tech companies aren't interested in classical music, there's nothing wrong with that. Twitter doesn't have money to spare and they're leaving SF. There's live concerts on you-tube, like the Frankfurt Symphony that are expertly filmed and edited for you-tube. Seriously, the likely outcome is there will be a smaller budget and a shorter season, and reduced pay, like what happened in Philadelphia.
You have a very short sighted vision of what music and art is in a community.
This is quite unfortunate
Indeed!
Amen!
Just play in Whole Beat metronome practice and see people come back,
Wim, what are you doing here? 🤣
@@MarshallArtz007 it’s the safest bet, it’s what will save classical music. We forget that Aesthetics are a thing. Don’t call people other names,
@@MarshallArtz007 😀
Not the function of the government to employ musicians
Top 5 lol