It’s Time To Stop Apologising | Nigel Biggar & Stephen Chavura
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.พ. 2025
- Nigel and Stephen discuss whether we are responsible for what has happened in the past and the best way forward to 'close the gap'.
Dr. Nigel Biggar CBE is Emeritus Regius Professor of Moral and Pastoral Theology at the University of Oxford, author and theologian. His most recent books are Colonialism: A Moral Reckoning (William Collins, 2023) and What’s Wrong with Rights? (Oxford University Press, 2020).
Dr. Stephen Chavura teaches European and Australian history at Campion College, Sydney. His most recent (co-authored) books are The Forgotten Menzies: The Mind of Australia's Longest-Serving Prime Minister (Melbourne University Publications, 2021), and Reason, Religion and the Australian Polity: A Secular State? (Routledge, 2019).
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Listening to these podcasts make me realise how much I miss intelligent, mature and responsible commentary. Well done guys!
It's not intelligent at all. It's rambling, patronising and ignorant.
@@habibhaloumi Which parts are ignorant, or patronising? Identify them.
Well he also believes in multiculturalism which is a way bigger problem that Aboriginals. For example he talks about how hard it is for Chinese/Indian/etc Australians like this is focused on them as well, which is complete nonsense. If anything, they use the Aboriginal story to their advantage.
@@personofearth5076 Multiculturalism is as big a scourge as Aboriginalism. Both are simply Marxist Critical Race theory whicht seeks to divide, overturn Westen Civilisation, and conquer.
What makes you happy isn't the truth
No treaty
Massacre did happen after WW1 but aren't remembered.
Why should we today be held accountable and made shameful about what people did in the past ???????? Makes NO sense.
Respectfully, you are misunderstanding what an apology is. It's not about you, it's about acknowledging the other party. A sincere apology is a good thing, nothing to be ashamed of at all.
I agree that we should stop apologizing - but it's crucial that apology be replaced with _acknowledgement_ , not with _denial_
@@bosse641 the fact Australia can’t even admit it in a meaningful way is why we are so insecure. But dare you to read all the palace letters released from correspondence in the 70s and tell me exactly when we stopped being run by some elites with a colonial mindset because John Kerr swearing allegiance to the queen for Australia to take on administration and properly colonise PNG at that time in history, leaves one skepticcal. That’s also not the large majority that a tiny minority I’ve never been part of, but you can’t act blind to it and then say liberal democracy 3 times like it’s a wish and we have a national identity appear
Why do you think someone's trying to make you accountable for history? That's silly
It’s a tactic designed to demoralise us all in the West.
I wish and encourage every Australian to watch the full interview with both academics. It is brilliant.
Brilliantly repulsive!
The men are intelligent and have studied/researched extensively. However, like us all they make choices and mistakes. They have biases. So listen to them but with a critical and curious mind. Mr Chavura has not acknowledged that it is very difficult to verify the accuracy of the infanticide rates. Mr Biggar suggests that people who apologise are taking on the guilt of the perpetrators. If they do, the guilty are those who lie about appropriate responses. It is said by some teachers according to social media, that children are to feel guilty about colonisation. I doubt this is true. I haven't heard this first hand. But this video's headline doubles down on this urban myth that people are being made to feel guilty.
@@elizabethcooke8998 Agree. I'm seeing their videos however as a manipulative form of propaganda by Anderson in which he uses two useful idiots to further his political battles. The video is a charade with an ulterior motive, which is to win cheap votes for Anderson's brothers in arms in the LNP. Nothing more, nothing less.
@@elizabethcooke8998 maybe look into the teachers in the act who made very young children write apologies for invading Australia...or keep ya head buried in the sand and deny what has been reported from several schools around the country.🍻🇭🇲
Don't you read at all?
I have first hand experience and have been studying psychology to help me to deeply understand the issue within our mobs. The concept of us vs them, the big bad white fella or living in a colonist society creates a victim mindset within our people. That victim mindset breeds a deep feeling of helplessness. When people feel helpless they essentially give up, because building a good life seems out of reach, so therefore why bother.
This is a very big problem. It’s demotivates the mob.
We’ve got to move away from the victim narrative, and create a mindset of potential and possibilities.
It’s a great injustice to tell a child that their life is hopeless and that the odds are against them. That’s definitely no longer the case, so we should be all teaching the mobs and especially kids that they have every opportunity to live a full and productive life.
You talk rubbish absolute garbage, you haven't studied anything other than what racists think. Did you vote yes to the voice to parliament?
@ You're the racist here, jack.
@@vickimouat8092 white victim mentality is a huge problem and woke right feelings is a parasite to the country.
When did colonisation end?
@@sentimentalbloke185lol... Reverse racism is a myth
I will never apologize. Say sorry, as I did not do any of those things. I wasnt even alive . The things that are listed to say sorry for those people are all gone. Passed away. We acknowledge but not apologize.
What's this about apologising for history?
Agreed. None of my ancestors were involved.
@mazilys and you live in a shack without electricity or running water, enjoying none of the benefits of the mining "economy." Very noble of you
I am genuinely sorry that your ancestors went through whatever they went through.
I am also genuinely sorry for what my ancestors went through.
We can all make sure that it never happens again, and we can work together for the benefit of all people.
We can trace my family tree directly back to over 650 years, with vague lines going back a few hundred years further, but with one very clear line back to Rob Roy MacGregor, yes the one played by Liam Neeson in the movie Rob Roy. We also have a Castle and very famous Whiskey with my surname on it.
I am not particularly happy that these things had happened to my ancestors, but there is no point in me getting upset with any of it, whoever I take it out on has done nothing directly to me or my family, so all it would do is create even more unnecessary suffering that doesn't need to happen.
I lament the $billions spent to no avail.
Billions??? 🤣
Reparations.... so if you hurt me today, my grandchildrens' children can expect reparations from your decendants. It makes zero sense!
Absolutely!
John, congratulations on the 700k subs. Richly deserved.
Anderson comes from a long line of sheep farmers. He is continuing the family tradition, only his sheep now have two legs, not four.
I'm the descendant of 13 convicts, one of whom arrived on the infamous "Neptune" in 1790 and none of whom were charged with anything more than a misdemour. They were torn from their land and families and sent half way across the world to often brutal situations. Why should l apologise for my ancestors when they were also harshly treated?
My husband is the descendant of 7 convicts. Again, misdemeanours. Myself, I'm so "privileged" I can't trace my family history past grandfathers - both have no birth certificate.
History is not there to be liked or disliked. It is there for you to learn from. And if it offends you, even better. Because then you are less likely to repeat it. It's not yours to erase or destroy.
apologize vs lament...brilliant distinction.
I will never feel guilty and ashamed for wrong doings I didn't do and wasn't responsible for and I will never apologise for wrong doings I didn't do and wasn't responsible for.
Who cares ,stop making about yourselves.
No one needs your guilt
Doesn't change the fact it happened.
The if and what if makes no sense.
Stop gaslighting,
Australia remembers WW1
Massacres of aboriginals happened after this event. Why doesn't even Jacinta Price speak of this.
i'm a South Aussie and have known many aboriginals from out in the sticks and many don't speak English, they only speak their tribal language, They may know a few words like smokes or light but they are very limited. How will these isolated tribal people ever be able to leave the bush even if they wanted to? I remember seeing some of these tribal fellas coming into Adelaide back in the 70s/80s and they'd go to 2 pubs that catered to them, one was the old Overway pub in Hindley st in the city and the other was the Globe pub in Port Adelaide. I swear the violence in and around those pubs was horrific, no whites ever went into those pubs it was that wild and violent. You'd go past the Globe on a Sunday morning and there'd be black fellas lying all over the place passed out, many covered n blood. Those pubs don't exist anymore, the Globe is empty and derelict and the Overway is a trendy sports bar now.
Yes l remember the globe and shopping in port adelaide
I’ve seen similar aboriginal on aboriginal violence in Townsville Qld back in the 70s Day after day belting each other horribly
100% correct
Wes from The Institute of Indigenous Traning stated that 80% of Aboriginal people are doing well or even better.
Some are doing very well for themselves.
20% need assistance and reformation in outlook, behavioural patterns and norms. The tools are there and ready but they need to make 'deadly choices' (good and wise choices) in regards how they are to live today and tomorrow.
Excellent points. I'm an Australian of British descent married to a Solomon Islander from Roviana in the Western Province in the Solomon Islands. Until the early 1900s the Roviana people still carried out head hunting raids, taking slaves as part of the process. (These were finally suppressed by the then British administration). The modern people of the Solomon Islands do not demand apologies or reparations for the actions of those times from the Roviana people. They merely accept it as part of their history, and have welcomed (in their words) 'civilisation' by the British.
Yeah I'm half cast we don't need an apology we just need to teach what happened in schools about what happened in our history so we can understand why it happened and not be quite about it
Great point, when was the last time you heard indigenous people today apologising for killing their own children?
Yes some of our Australian ancestors were just as innocent as we are when it comes to the terrible behaviour of some from the past, so why are we all expected to apologise not only for something we may never have even been connected to in any way but also let's also realise the ancestors who did participate in such bad behaviour are not the people of today so if you were related to them through history that's not your fault you did not commit the Crimes they did you may have a completely different kind of heart and way of thinking so why are we all being judged and expected to apologise for something none of us did not one of us yes They may have been some terrible things proven to be done but in actual fact every nationality have dark secrets including Aboriginals and English Japanese Chinese American New Zealand It doesn't matter what nationality No one is perfect There are lots of terrible things happening in the past and still today so let's try and find peace and love amongst us all more than anything 💔💔😢🙏🙏
Apologising is a weird take when we haven’t event got to the point of acknowledging it
The thing is people are being born & brought up being taught that they ARE entitled to being apologised to,it’s time to stop this putting blame “somewhere” for reparations.
& how many of those people taking advantage of the race scam actually care about anyone except themself!
None of them
You're talking about the exception here, not the rule.
@mattw5665 The exceptions always confirm.the societal norms.
How many can we name out of all the opportunists and scammers world.wide, not just in Australia, as we need to at least get close to a two digit number.
Sanity and decency talking. It is obscene to want to apologise for something we did not do.
No one is asking you to apologise for anything YOU did.
More like Insanity! We are the beneficiaries of our ancestors.🤔
We still were never given a treaty
We only voted 1960
Massacres happen after WW1 some in the late 1940s
And our land is Terria Nullis ,no acknowledgement or remembrance.
You are standing on the shoulders of your ancestors. The benefits of your ancestors is still being felt today. The oppression of those ancestors will take generations to return to a level playing field. Still today the white Australia policy rules in employment in many areas that had segregation of the races. Industry and services are in areas previously off limits to indigenous people. Its only recently that fairness has been mandated by government to close the gap between the haves and the have nots. As a society we are judged on how we treat the most vulnerable but that seems to be for some too high a price for their own gratification and satisfaction. Shame on anyone that can not share empathy with those unable to move out of the communities and work due to distance and cost. Shame on anyone that makes the gap wider and most of all shame on the ones that have no reason to hate but do anyway. The idea that only historical figures are responsible is farcical. Our society is responsible until the gap has closed. You know, the one you use to live your everyday life and until you live independent of your society you must take responsibility for the society you are a part of. Anything else is hypocrisy
G'day from NSW. We're Aussie's of Irish ancestry.💚 Just to share; Our ancestors origin history to here was the Forced Transportations (bringing of the Convicts) and the later Forced Evictions of Ireland (coming of the free Irish settlers). Convicts were Irish, Welsh, English, Scottish, children and adults 1788-1868. Our ancestors irish language and cultural customs were banned under foreign British law. Seven years was the standard period of incarceration, for other's, longer. The Irish people's spent generations trying to stop this through their various Rebellions both in Ireland and here, it failed. As a result we're Aussie's.💙 I was a 70's child growing up with mates of Italian, Arabic, part Australian Aboriginal (Dhurag Mob) and English ancestry. We saw ourselves as Aussie's and mates but with our own cultural aspects we were growing up with and shared. Go raibh maith agat (Thankyou for reading).🙂
Why can't you hit the like button on this video ? I like these discussions. I dont agree about apologising for some thing some of your race once did or guilt tripping but history needs to be learnt warts and all.
We are our ancestors.
We should not apologize.
We should be proud
Proud of how they drove Indigenous people off cliffs? Proud of how they intentionally worked to spread disease to Indigenous people? Proud of how they kidnapped children? Or like Chavura do you prefer to ignore the evidence that those things happened?
We are the beneficiaries of our ancestors. To be unapologetic is why there will never be real peace on earth.
Yes and no...
We are not literally our ancestors. We are those that suffer the results of their achievements. Yes, we should all be proud, we need to stop making judgements of those in the past and instead judge the situation they were all individually found in.
@@soundknight There are no better ancestors than ours.
I have their face, eyes, and body. I think as my ancestors. I am the result of their actions. My DNA is made of them. Every part of me is them. And I want to do the same for my future generations.
I am not judging them. I am so proud of them. Judging your ancestors is a mental sickness of the western society. There are no better ancestors than ours.
YOU SUFFERED
ARE YOU SERIOUS no your just white
“Closing the gap” will always require indigenous people to assimilate to the ways of their colonisers. Losing your culture , your beliefs , your ancestral connection to land by moving to cities (as suggested by the hosts)
Gosh, you know, some of those beautiful children could be put on white Australian households and really thrive! If they don't have a healthy Aboriginal family member that can take them... this is not stealing a child! This is giving them a gr8 life! My brother is Maori... our adopted parents were white, may they rest in peace.. he had an upbringing of love and total acceptance xo
The stolen generation was exactly that....the government stole children from thousands of good aboriginal parents for forced assimilation which is cultural genocide...you are twisted and sick minded get educated!
We 'whites' whose ancestors were sent away from family to a far flung land at 19 years of age forever for stealing a blanket and two pillows as my ancestors was, could equally require England to apologise. But those who did it are gone. We just needed to get on with the job of making a new life.
@@bethbluett4211
At the expense of another race
Well done
Yes we do, it’s all about respect. And that is something that you see very little of when there are discussions around Aboriginal views, rights and history. Especially online.
No one owns ANY land. They only claim to. The land belongs to everyone.
"I don't believe in apologising for things I didn't do.....
There are shameful thing some white people did to aboriginal people. There are shameful things some aboriginal people did to other aboriginal people. Let's not make it about race or colour of skin. There is sin all over the place." Brilliant! Thank you"
i admire this man's optimism, but there is little good intent here - this is a power grab. plain and simple
Those who live in the regional areas choose to do so, if they were ordered into a city there would be an outcry. I saw an interview where one old Aboriginal woman, sitting on the ground stated that none of the city types who complain all the time are nothing to do with us, we do not associate with them.
Yes. Attachment to the past leads to no good. My ancestors were sent to Australia and told to never return to England. I am not responsible for any atrocities.
It's not well intentioned.
This idea of not apologizing for our ancestors should hold true in the US where I am and all other countries. We didn't exist back then, so how are we people today at fault? I have never apologized for slavery in the US because I wasn't there, I knew the history of slavery in which every race has enslaved every other race, and I disagree with slavery.
We are the beneficiaries of our ancestors! To be unapologetic is exactly the reason why there will never be any real peace on this planet. 🤔
With respect, it's not as simple as that. National apologies for historical wrongs are not your personal apology, they are made on behalf of your nation. It's not about you. In order to understand, you have to zoom out from your personal headspace and look at the bigger picture and the historical context underlying the apology. You see, we decedents in the 21st century live on a foundation of prosperity that has been bought with the immeasurable suffering and torment of the colonised Indigenous peoples or in the USA, slaves and Native Americans. Yes time has passed but time hasn't healed the wound and for many of the decedents of the colonised, they still suffer greatly. You or I did not commit the crimes, we're guilty of nothing, only wilful ignorance if we choose to look the other way. Our respective nations committed genocide and unreconciled genocide reverberates through the centuries and indeed millennia until is is properly addressed. That is the nature of a national apology for historical crimes such as slavery and genocide. It is but a first step in reconciliation. It is a good step provided the apology is sincere. I hope this helps explain.
@habibhaloumi Actually, it is that simple. You and I (I hope) have never owned or been slaves. I'm sorry that happened to some people's ancestors, but I am not at fault. I wasn't even born yet.
@ You missed the point entirely.
@@phyllischaffin4052 We are the beneficiaries of our ancestors!
When Australia cleans up gold in the pool at the Olympics, you are not responsible for that either.
I have the journal my Great Great Grandfather created on his arrival in 1905 from Ireland when he started working in the beef industry in the Kimberley where he taught the aboriginal boys and men how to ride horses and work in mustering.
He also wrote, in great detail, of the savage and unhuman treatment of the women and children and the eventual arrival of the church and the saving of so many children from the savage culture they lived and died by.
Very true white British and Europeans were savage inhumane towards Aboriginal females and young girls they perpetrated mass rpe. It's all documented
It was a savage and brutal land they lived in. An extremely harsh environment, unfortunately, many of those brutalities were an adaptive response to survive those conditions.
It would be honest to do a vid on the different christian denominations and their role in the premeditated destruction of culture of the aboriginal in our country, right up till the 70s possibly 80s , honesty is a virtue
Your wealth as much your profits of economic activity since 1788 continues through generations - who are the Wealthiest in Australia to England...?
As Christians God calls us to repent on behalf of our ancestors. I’m happy to do that, but we need forgiveness too. Australia needs a Forgiveness day from the Aborigines to us. The Chinese have been here since the 1850s. Afghans too and others also.
By this logic ,The present german generation are not guilty of what their ancestors did.which I agree with.
Nothing wrong with living indigenous lifestyle as long as nobody is bothered by statistical inequality. Most of us sometimes return to our roots and go fishing, hunting or picking mushrooms and berries. Personally i fish using primitive bow. It grounds me.
If we were out ancestors, Europeans would have to continuously praised for all the innovations and scientific progress. Very nonsensical... But it only becomes valid when there is a victim position to be utilised.
Quite frankly, the title 'We are not our ancestors' is a disgrace to imply. How embarrassing is it to distance ourselves from those who we should grateful toward, rather than condemn. Our European ancestry is something to behold.
Yep it's over 200 years ago , people carrying on like everybody against them , they now have a fantastic country to live in and join in stop trying separate and join and live together ,plenty of jobs pay you money to enjoy life ,
Very good. The only thing I would disagree on is saying they should have the same outcome. The should certainly have the same opportunities.. but everyone having the same outcome is what communist want.
Cleverness has unintended consequences. In Europe Gutenberg invented movable type, the printing press. European languages are based on single letters. Before the printing press, monks wrote out books, by hand. A very laborious process. No wonder literacy was uncommon, even among the elite, before the printing press made possible, widespread literacy.
And Europeans did a good job on paper too. Although the Egyptians managed with papyrus, the Chinese had their own rice paper, Europe having lots of trees and lots of inventive people, it all meant massive paper production came about.
This led to an explosion of knowledge never before dreamed of in history. And it happened in Europe. So then the knowledge boom and lots of readers led to Europeans taking over much of the planet: Australia & New Zealand, North America....with other European countries doing the same.
And, we like to write books, don't we? Other cultures did not have our inventiveness, so they didn't colonize the world, didn't write the books which turned into evidence over time, against Europeans. And our Christian morality did us in. It's heavy on sympathy, do unto others and so forth.
As a combination, Christian morals evolved into British origin people doing away with slavery. All other cultures embraced slavery, but since most books on history are written by Europeans, this leads to a fairy tale conclusion that the only people doing bad things in history, must have been Europeans.
Of course, for anyone with a smattering of knowledge of other cultures, that's a very silly thing to believe. I remember last time Donald Trump was President. He went to India. He spoke to a very large crowd, gave them a vision of the future for India. A future where America & India go to the planet Mars together, this coming century.
I was watching a Glenn Greenwald video, "2nd Gentleman to WEF"....11 minutes in. Glenn has a very interesting chart. On who is doing well in America, ethnic groups. Americans from India are doing extremely well. Their household income level is double, that of whites. Should I apologize for that too?
Konstantin Kisin noticed the same thing about Brits from India. Bear in mind I mean India, where the common religion is Hinduism. Kisin said Brits from India also do very well in Britain. Obviously something is going on here, some religions are quite compatible with the modern world, fit in, do well.
India, how did it work out for them, British Colonialism? Very well. Britain gave India the English language, which became the global language of commerce, books, trade and economics and science, since America dominated the 20th Century. America being, another thing Britain had a large hand in creating.
Before British rule, there were too many competing languages in India, no agreed upon common language for educated people. Now there is. Britain gave India the gift of a Parliament, the rule of law, democracy. That was a golden gift, considering their own barbaric past, their past violence, inability to get along with each other. Britain gave many gifts to India that are advantaging India, in the fullness of time. People who teach history often lack imagination. Especially about the future, where things are going. All this British legacy is combining this century, to give India a huge advantage. That sure beats their past: suttee and thousands of years of the quasi-racist caste system.
It's not that white people didn't do bad things. It's just that only white people get the bad press on that. Maybe it's because we were clever and inventive and moral. That's something to be proud of, not ashamed of. And that is where, the big Western illusion of history was formed over time, the fairy tale we teach our young: Foolish guilt, for crimes we didn't commit, while ignoring all the good. The Catholics would call that a lie by omission. Indeed. We need our religious leaders to step up on this. Stop wallowing in guilt.
Trump is right. India will be a superpower this century. Good. In California, Silicon Valley is full of Indian engineers. Good. Elon Musk talks of this, importing many more. I'm happy for India. They should thank Britain. For the gifts they received. Gratitude is the best antidote to resentment.
Elon Musk said the other day, Germans should not feel guilty for crimes done by their grandparents or great grandparents. He said, they should feel proud of their country. That's nice to hear from a man with a Jewish father.* (Christian mother)
Christians should return the favor. We should forgive Soros, who is Jewish, for being a Nazi collaborator in his youth. He's now is a leading World Economic Forum leader, in the middle of the Davos elites. We should be a good sport about all this, we all should forgive George Soros for being a Nazi collaborator. Time to move on.
Deuteronomy 24:16 KJV
16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
*Elon Musk Fan Zone channel, on TH-cam. Video: "Elon Musk: Does God exist?"
... Mentions a Hebrew pre-school as well as an Anglican Sunday School, Elon went to, as a child.....3 minutes, 20 seconds into the video. 😮
Excellent, Tim Bitts. The first half of your presentation is the most engaging. I enjoyed reading it.
DAMM you lost me at cleverness
blah blah blah
Unless you're actively practicing restorative justice then you're not learning from history. You're perpetuating ignorance.
Exactly
I had white shame shoved down my throat throughout my public school education, from elementary thru graduate school. I've been around 6 decades. I'm sick of it.
What we see we look after! Animal,s plants and each other keep what we live on healthy and intact for the next generation,s so it will last for ever
Some people (including John Anderson Media) believe that superior technology equates to superior decision making. 250 years of failure to solve the disadvantage should make us question that assumption. Aborigines have never had an effective say in their affairs as a whole. There have been very successful aboriginal led programs. The one attempt to harness 60,000 years of successful problem solving was scuttled by people who thought aborigines couldn't be trusted to have a say about affairs affecting them. The referendum provided the opportunity to LEGISLATE for that say. Legislation designed to provide a voice but not ultimate decision making. Legislation decided by the whole parliament and capable of future alteration if problems were encountered. Why were people under the impression that the constitution change determined how the voice would work? Who wins when ignorance of the process is not addressed? There are at least two ways to be sorry, one is when you have done something hurtful. The other is when something hurtful has been done and in recognising the hurt we are sorry it happened. We should apoogise and feel guilty in the first instance. We may admit a wrong was done and regret it without guit in the second. Pronouncing that guilt should accompany both ways of being sorry is deceptive. Telling people they should feel guilty about the actions of others is manipulative as is the linking of apology with guilt. How long can we continue to have deaths in custody and excessive crime in Alice Springs before we ask Aboriginal people how their comuities prevented crime They didn't have jails, but that knowledge too has been diminshed by attempts as suggested here to integrate the people aka assimiate them - destroy their identity and culture.
Hmmmm, they didn’t have jails. So, what sort of tribal punishments were meted out by the elders? Tribal punishments tended to brutality and death because the decision was based in the fight for dominance and survival in a harsh environment. Whatever is happening when there are (accidental) deaths in custody is not worse than what clans/mobs are still capable of and doing to themselves. Jacinta Price and her mother both explained it very clearly - aboriginal culture is based in violence.
@@tawnydi lies and Jacinta and her mother don't know aboriginals culture she's a coconut
@elizabethcooke8998 You must be fun at parties.
The same for our families that were taken to Australia against their will to a prison colony then made to build a society and take aboriginal partners to breed families and be part of an evolving society over time. We didn’t ask for that but it just happened! Some one said such is life !
I won't be apologising for anything.
Try telling that to ths acctviats
There's no housing near the jobs and social services.
Never should have apologized. Hunan just acted like other competitive species
Way past time. To do so will require we stop listening to women. Just do that.
Sorry you part of a different debate??
Yes it is. And as soon as they realise they will be calling out for Ireland Day and Scotland Day. They should help celebrate survival day and the date that the Australian states federated and became Australia should be the date for people to celebrate Australia Day. Well, that’s what I think.
That's actually not a bad idea. If ever it gets to the point that an alternative day has to be gazetted, the day of federation could be worth considering.
If it makes zero sense, then why did Australia constantly ask the Japanese and Chinese for an apology for war crimes committed against Australians over many years? What illogical logic was used to come to the illogical conclusion that it is okay for Australia to ask for an apology, but totally unreasonable for the Aboriginals to ask for an apology?!
The political factions of the Australian Aborigines did ask for an apology from the Australian GOVERNMENT.
They got it.
Now they seem to want it from the White baby born yesterday.
That's where the problem lies.
Rudd delivered an apology, it was so memorable & changed so much that you've already forgotten it, 17 years on.
Who’s Peter Sutton?
Australian anthropologist, worked with aboriginal people recording languages etc
Author of a book "Farmers or Hunter Gatherers?" With Keryn A Walshe. University professor. Spent 30 plus years over summer vacations with Aboriginal tribes in NT & Queensland. Book published around the same time as Bruce Pascoe's.
Another plain speaking episode on closing the gap without the divisive extremist propaganda tacked onto it. The law is there for all who seek to avail of it with serious intentions to better themselves.
Umm, don't you actually have to start apologizing first, before you start claiming too many apologies have been made?! I don't go down to the shops on a daily basis and see Australians apologizing to Aboriginals. I see them regularly discriminating against Aboriginals, but I never found any apologizing to any Aboriginals. As far as I am aware, only Kevin Rudd made an apology. Where are all these individuals and organizations who have been constantly apologizing to the Aboriginals?!
If you see them discriminating against aboriginals 'at the shops', what are you doing about it? There are laws against.
But it's heart-warming that the drummer of AC/DC made an apology.
@@sentimentalbloke185 Firstly, why would you assume I don't say anything about it? Secondly, everyone sees it. I am not the only one who sees it. But I am one of the only ones who pulls up those engaged in the behavior and has a go at them.
Your probably one of the many I see who walks past it and ignores it, and walks past me and victims of it with silly looks on your face, and acting as though the issue is with me and the victim, as opposed to the perpetrators.
@ Goodness gracious, you are a genuine superhero. It's a good thing everyone bows before your interventions. How often do you do these noble deeds?
@@sentimentalbloke185 Aboriginals got their rights due to true Australians, and many true Australians still exist today, who are indeed everyday genuine superheroes.
Also, are you claiming you do not see it in our society, or stating that you don't have a set? And talk about graciousness, you sure give the impression you are always gracious in defeat!
@@AcesHigh-n1w What are 'true Australians'?
Truly, your act is a gift to comedy.
4:24 The correct term is aboriginal, not indigenous. 70% of Australians were born here. They are indigenous by any normal definition of that word. Around 2% of Australians have at lest 1 ancestor who were here at the time of European settlement. They have a claim to be aboriginal.
If 'we' are not our ancestors, why do we wave a British flag and bow to a British King?
Why do we act like gutless colonial dogs?
We see the jail statistics and we need a sorry apology 😐
Same should never be the goal improved should
What is comforting is that poc are such a high percentage of Australia's population, and from all over the world, that our population will soon be a high and healthy percentage of people of colour, and we are so much less likely to have to listen to white men talk about something they have, literally, no personal experience of nor skin in the game.
The past was bad if you were poor and white but I don't hate rich people for having money we need to learn from the past not feel ashamed for being white I don't dislike people for their colour or religion
Today WE ARE the slaves to our govt
Quite disappointed in this discussion with far too much patronisation and talking about people rather than engaging people in discussion.
The fact remains that everyone alive today would have made the same decisions as our ancestors had they been alive then.
We are products of our times.
There are no wrongs of the past.
Just things we choose not to do.
I have doubts the European Jewish community of the 1930s & 40s would agree with you.
@@RoseFoley-e8q we are talking about Australia.
You're off topic big time!
There hasn't been an apology, by government for the behaviour of the British behaviour.
Kevin Rudd in 2008z. It’s literally called- The Apology
pretty sure just he said it his country did not back him
@@Kim-88868let’s be honest, it never going to be good enough for you.
@@deaninchina01
And why should it be
We don't apologise for something we didn't do stop being the victim, i see you have a mobil phone, thats something you would never have if the English never settled because you would still be stone age hunter gatherers or you would all be dead just like when the aboriginals slaughtered the pygmies who were there befoe the aboriginals !!🇭🇲🇭🇲👍👍👍😎a@@Kim-88868
I don't see anyone apologising for Edi Amin 😂
Doesn’t all this exist???
Maybe remember all your privileges and wealth came from the poor and unjust treatment of the original custodians of this country.
When the judge, the executioner, and the lawyer are all against the victim, how is this dire situation described⁉️
It seems illogical for someone to research and discuss the history of oppression and persecution without citing a single victim from the indigenous people who are present; their research and words here hold no value, it's like to conduct research on events that occurred in Japan while referencing sources from Bangladesh.
You've got you wires crossed, Mo. Back to the mosque for you.
@ You are in pain; I wish you a speedy recovery. By the way, do you know any church for sale⁉️
@ Why bother paying for it when you can just take it, eh?
And just recently albo puts up yet another 842 million for ideginous housing in the Territory. While white working aussies still struggle with housing and mortgages 🤔
If your not enjoying it LEAVE
th-cam.com/video/ChIKJS8xkuY/w-d-xo.html ‘He’s a fake’: Details emerge of late Indigenous scholar’s heritage
Where is the over 30 billion taxpayer dollars to make the indigenous life better going??????
White peoples pockets that's obvious
0:47 "Let's not racialise this..." tru gawd... from the one who thinks British dindo nothin racist since 1833
More commonsense like this pls
Come to Haymarket for Lunar New Year this weekend Stephen! Come tell everyone how "multiculturalism is c_ncer" again!
That's organised chaos, nothing wrong with multiethnic society but different cultures rubbing up against each other is a cause for chaos. Let's keep Aboriginal culture alive and thriving but where does it end? In civil violence eventually. The world isn't ready to come together yet, unfortunately. The only way the world comes to together as one is when we share strikingly similar cultures throughout and we are nowhere close to that yet. I hope and pray for the day but you can't force these things it's an evolutionary system.
The only cultures that Chavura wants in Australia are the ones from western & northern Europe
@@RoseFoley-e8q oh dear me - you are such a troll lols.
Further up the thread you said -
[I have doubts the European Jewish community of the 1930s & 40s would agree with you. ]
We can see you have no love affair with Stephen - how about not clogging up this thread with such inane thoughts.
@@RoseFoley-e8q Agree. He is a dangerous grandiose man spruiking vile misinformation, distorting historical context for devious purpose.
Multiculturality in a country like Australia is inevitable, and I just made a post on FB saying how I think Haymarket is a blessing to Australia. But the ideology of multiculturalism, that makes a fetish of diversity for the sake of diversity, and erases the normative force of our pre-existing heritage, is social cancer.
straw man argument. "That we descendants of our British colonialist ancestors should not wear the guilt of what atrocities were inflicted on the Aboriginal people 200 years ago" NO.... How about truth telling instead of white washing, propagating lies and apologetics . Start with recognition and telling the truth.
Thank you @Mark🙌
The simple fact is that many Australians deny that a genocidal war was perpetrated against Indigenous Australians.
It’s questionable. They were subjects of the King and were treated as such.
Not many Australians have heard of the Pygmies.
@JJRM8. How, where and when? Go ahead the mic is yours. Even if there was such deliberate systematic genocide waged against the aboriginal people, which there wasn't. What is it that you think we can do about it now? More apologies? More money? What will it take for aboriginal people to put away their grievance and victimhood once and for all? This woe is me bs is actually working against the aboriginal cause. The voice result was clear evidence of that. 52% of Australia is now under native title and aboriginals enjoy more than double the social benefits than any other group. In 2008 they got the apology they wanted and they have 10 members of parliament with aboriginal heritage. They are afforded all the same voting rights and opportunities as every other australian. So what with the perpetual grievence?
@@troywallace322you mean because the genocide the Aboriginal people did to them 🤔😳
Failed historians like Chavura and Biggar deny it because it's a cheap way to win brownie points with ignorant conservatives and also justify holding to hateful views
Sorry.
Jacinta price is a total sell out
What because she tells the truth ?.
Really? In what way? What does she have that she can sell out?
@@sentimentalbloke185 she’s entitled to her opinion if she thinks indigenous ppl are better off but that is objectively absurd. With it though she’s sure elevating her position in Australian politics known for corruption and lining of your own pockets, with that take. This in a party that publicly shredded the constitution when it didn’t censure Morrison for trashing conventions, the whole system is built on conventions so frankly I don’t even know what she could claim to stand for
(Also you won’t be entitled to an opinion for long because politicians suing press and members of the public for defamation is on the rise and Dutton thinks the tax payer should fund them, this is absurd, so is everything)
@ Poor attempt at deflection. You find Price problematic for the simple reason that she doesn't support a narrative that sustains the moral superiority you've built your opinion on.
It has never been about making people alive today feel "guilty" for the actions of our ancestors. It has always been about recognising and apologising that those events happened, and working forward to a better future.
People like Chavura with partisan agendas always deliberately misinterpret that.
Its far more convienient to deliberately misinterpret reality to make it suit your views.
Its the same way bad historians like Little Steve deliberately manipulate and misinterpret evidence.
YES! Thank you!
Guilt is what they want. Without guilt there can be no reparations.
Without colonist guilt the aboriginals will have to admit they are to blame for the situation they are in today. Violence is a major part of their culture and has been for millennia (in all cultures, but particularly hunter gatherers). It is hard for them to admit that and even harder to change it.
80% of indigenous in jail are there for violent assault mostly against family.
@matt Do you realise that the comment "violence is part of their culture" is true for virtually every single society that has existed? And that historically speaking, Europeans have been the most belligerent "civilisation" on Earth?
Yet you are not ´ḿoving forward´
Nerds
Kevin Rudd
Failed historian Stephen Chavura still working to undo reconciliation and slander Indigenous people.
What slanders would that be. And, are there first nations activist who are potentially are untruthful in anything.
Failed?
That's right @@1969cmp
What did you expect? Chavura jumped on the anti-Indigenous bandwagon a while ago when his academic career collapsed.
@@1969cmpthey aren't a nation. They never were.
If your not enjoying it
GO HOME!!
problem solved
So you keep saying, how's your welcome to country ceremony business going?
@@sentimentalbloke185
I replied to a comment about what the British had bought to this country and that this person was struggling with what the first nations people have done for them to enjoy so my response was directed to them and then it just kept sending
@ Telling a person who was born here to go home is a rather pointless gesture.
@@sentimentalbloke185
Monkey see monkey do
@
Do you know the person I was replying to and are they first nations as I will whole heartedly apologize
Otherwise my reply stands
And I'm one of those children.
It wasn't 200 years ago it was for 200 years! Liberal democratic society was with the exclusion of aboriginals until all desirable land had been obtained via the genocide of aboriginals. The law was never applied in protection of aboriginals it was used to perpetrate genocide. the rpe of aboriginal females and young girls perpetrated by British and Europeans was on a epidemic scale never seen in history. The evidence of white Christian british and European savage uncivilized genocidal colonising practices on a societal and institutional level has been made accessible for the general public the crimes and nature of which the crimes were committed threatens the pride of the religion Christianity the church of England and the English people as mass perpetrators of the worlds most heinous abhorrent practices on a global scale never before seen in history a secondary wave of colonialism is now being imposed in the form of dehumanising fictionalized literature they themselves created being pushed once again by the outlets they control to justify the worlds largest known genocide and blaming the victims while claiming to he saviours. The current people like these three lying and justifying those crimes are worse than the people that committed them.
, , , , , , , here are spare some commas, you seem to have run out.
@@Lux-x4y seems some of the huge funding the govt gives towards Indigenous Australians is going towards online bots and activists. Great use of my tax
@@speakupriseup4549 haha, yep. No one's gonna read that load of indecipherable gobbledegook.
Chinese & Indians were treated terrifically in Australia 1-2 hundred years ago 🙄
I want money for the treatment of my ancestors from Britain,
Never have never will
I don't believe 98% of people feel guilty about this at all or they're to afraid to say it in front of people who don't
Aboriginals are not native to Australia and came here 65000 years ago. I am half Aboriginal